""""As an ex motor mechanic , with over 40 years experience , It was a pleasure to listen to , and watch your test procedures , well done and best regards from Ireland
Like the speed he talks. The level of volume he uses. The content. The way he does not detract from the point of the video. Good trainer. a motor AGE trainer
Thank you very much for this video. I have the battery drain problem with my Nissan Maxima, it has a brand new battery in it but every day I have to use a portable battery to jump start it. Huge pain in the you know what. I don't have the tools to do these tests and even if I had I don't have enough confidence I could do them right, so I will have to take the car to shop but at least I won't sound like a total idiot when I tell them what needs to be done and they won't be able to take me for a ride with the price. Thanks again.
I can not thank you enough for this video. I have this very specific problem with my car and surprise! here is a very specific video addressing my problem. Again, thank you Motor Age and I am subscribing! Have a nice day :)
Thank you for your time and valuable teaching. Truly plain and simple. This teaching was made so much easier by your step by step process as I have been watching several of the video's on this subject here on Utube and this one has topped them all in my book. Marvelous, simply marvelous.
Really good parasitic drain video. First one to mention keeping the vehicle powered to not shut off the parasitic drain. I have been to 2 garages and they can not find the issue. Im guessing they skipped that step if they even did the parasitic drain test at all (just learning all this myself now). My truck keeps randomly having a dead battery but sometimes it can sit for over a week and start fine. Its also sometimes running at 16v I have never been more frustrated in my life. Who ever heard of spending money on a vehicle to not fix it... (did some blind fixes so its on me i guess...)
The amperage increase happens when I have followed the appropriate steps to begin testing. I allow time for verything to shut down then I have my meter in series via quick disconnect adapter for draw testing and monitor the draw disconnecting main light switch when I disconnect it the amperage shoots up to 12.1 amps. Thank you very much for talking with me, even if I don't come to soution, I really appreciate having someone to bounce ideas.
I'm working on a 03 lincoln towncar and I'm confused about something. 1st off I have a draw reading on 3 different fuses? 2nd when measing amp at the battery if I disconnect fuse #1 the draw decreases from 400ma to 200ma, if I disconnect fuse#2 I'm down to 80ma and fuse#3 down to 15ma. I decided to chase the one wth the highest draw. It lead me to a lightin control module, I disconnected the harness there and I dropped from 400ma to 80ma...then...
huge thanks for posting this video. ive been fighting a problem like this for months now, and with your video i think i found the problem! thanks again
Its fuse 2.31 if youd like to check it out. Thank you again for taking time to talk with me. I got a few of yalls ase study guides a year or so ago, I still like to go back and read them sometimes.
Hey, we'll add it to the list and see what we can do. Unfortunately, no, the "After Hours" segment is no longer being done. Instead, we started "In The Workshop". Same idea, just pre-recorded. You can still participate in the live webinars, though! There are 23 of them this year! Just sign up for the newsletter. The link is on our channel page.
First, the battery must be connected to the system. There can be no voltage drop unless current is flowing and that won't happen unless the circuit is complete. Second, make sure the system is timed out, no lights are on, no doors are open, no convenience systems (a/c, heater fan, radio) are on. EVERYTHING must be off. Last, your meter has to be accurate to read in this millivolt range. A cheap auto parts meter won't do the job. Hope this helps!
Really great video and so well explained. My VW LT 35 van has a parasitic drain, unfortunately it also has a host of 'add on' accessories including a 'base box' of all things. Coupled to that LED and emergency spot lights for working at night, I think I may have some trouble finding which circuits these are 'fixed into' ....but at least I understand how to do this now. Many thanks once again...
Back from vacation, and had a chance to look over the diagrams. If you pulled a fuse and then put your meter in series to measure the current draw, that counts as opening the circuit and that could wake up a module. Go back to the three fuses and send me the millivolt reading you get on each.
Interesting idea Luke. Current, voltage and resistance are all related. It works across the fuses because the fuse is a known resistance. Using the battery connections, though, would introduce a variable resistance factor you really couldn't account for. And with the voltage drop reading so small (usually less than 20-30 millivolts depending on the fuse style) it would be enough of a variable to skew the test results.
Thank you, you really know your stuff. Using your voltage drop method I can't find anything in my car so I'm gonna stop worrying my battery voltage for now and I'll just wait and see if the battery will drain again. It did before, and I took it to the car electrician and he repaired two things but I still see my battery volltage dropping slowly.
I have an expensive amp clamp from Fluke, and I'm not very impressed with it's measurement accuracy at the kind of low DC amp draw in a typical parasitic drain situation. I'm glad to hear you have the same experience, since I wasn't too happy to be looking for another clamp. I think your idea to measure voltage drop across fuses is the best screening test to narrow the search.
And last question. How did you determine that these three fuses were involved in the drain? Did you measure voltage drop across them, or did you pull them to see what current flow did on your ammeter?
It's just two 12v batteries wired in series, like a golf cart, to raise the supply voltage. Most of the techniques shown in the video will work just fine on these systems.
400 ma is a lot of draw! It is important to be sure that all the onboard computers have timed out before you start hunting for the cause. This can take anywhere from 30 minutes to 8 hours, depending on the make/model. Are the doors/trunk/hood open when you measured the draw?The lighting module may be actively online. You'll need to see what the three fuses have in common, if anything, but I'd look at the fuse NOT related to the lighting circuit. I think that 80-15 drop is the one you're after.
I still use the direct reading method using my old Fox Valley 965 digital DDM meter with a shunt, still to this day gives me accurate readings. Sometimes old methods are still the best.
Very good teaching , one question of the third method , current drop measering. Some fuses are not with the 2 measure points. They are smaller as that You measure. How do you measure such kind of fuses
Thanks for the tips . I found out two of my fuses were draining my battery .the fuses are 50amp( battery and 10amp ( I.O.D )what should I do next to fix the problem ? Replacing these fuses will fix my battery draining problem or not . Please your comment will be appreciated . Thanks
You would think so, wouldn't you? But now, the fuse has a resistance and there will be a measurable voltage drop if current is flowing through it. Not much, you'll need to measure in millivolts, but it is there.
It's not the fuses, but something that the fuses supply power to that is causing your problem. You'll need a "Power Distribution" wiring diagram so you can see what the two fuses send power to. I'm betting that the battery fuse is sending power to the IOD fuse, and I'd start there. Be sure to allow the control modules enough time to "go to sleep" before you take your measurements!
I have a 1997 Ford Taurus I've checked all fuses for the headlights I still have no headlights I have turn signals I have running lights I have flasher oncoming traffic headlight no dims no brights can you help
I am currently working on a 2002 Taurus . The battery which is only 19 months old , goes down after a few days . I fully charged it and disconnected it . It fails under a load test after sitting , disconnected , after a week .The car , after a parasitic drain test was at 20 milliamps - well within specs . It took an hour or more to power down . You can do a ripple voltage test on the alternator . That will tell you if the diodes are bad and allowing current to drain when the system is not running . The alternator on the 3.0L , DOHC Taurus is HORRIBLY burried , so that test is almost impossible with a DVOM . I have a Electronic Specialties 725 Battery Tester and it will run the test at the battery . Many high end testers have this . I would also fully check the charging system . Make sure no add on items such as alarms , radios , etc. are powered on . Sometimes a rear wiper is stuck on and keeps trying to " PARK " itself , even cycling every few seconds or longer .
Go back to the lighting control module you disconnected earlier. You'll need a low amp clamp and meter for the next step.Divide the wires at the connector in half (or as needed to allow the amp clamp to wrap around them) and measure the draw. What you are trying to do is isolate the ONE wire that is pulling that 400 ma. of current. You can then use the wiring schematic to see where that wire is going. Isolate that cause first. It could be a defective module.
Thanks for the video, I have a 2009 f150 that has a battery related problems. the battery was tested 6 months ago and they said it was fine. Will try method 3 if I can find a multimeter that I can borrow. I'm also aware that I do have a blown fuse as one of the AC power outlets doesn't work. Not sure if this should happen or not, but if I plug my phone and charger in, remove keys, the phone charger will have power for several hours. Needles to say the battery would be dead after 30 minutes.
I have another question. Say I find a draw on the main power or ground wire for the lighted control module. How will I know there isn't something esle telling the module to stay awake via the can bus wires?
If you have even a momentary break in the circuit when you switch over to the meter, you'll wake everybody up. And 12 amps with the switch disconnected? That's a lot of draw. Would need to study the schematic to figure that one out. What kind of meter are you using?
The only thing I see in common between fuses 31 and 30 is the trunk lid release circuit. Try disconnecting the solenoid in the trunk lock assy and see what that does to your millivolt reading. I really think that when you pull the fuse, you are waking up several of the modules. You can also use a
More than likely you "woke up" other modules on the car. Like I said earlier, it is imperative that you allow all the modules to go offline before you measure the draw. Keep us posted on your progress!
Brilliant! I knew about the multimeter, in series option, but your video has opened my eyes to other ways. I'm struggling to identify my parasitic drain but I think that may be because I have to disconnect the battery and then connect multimeter. Just wondering if the reason it hasnt shown up (after days of watching it in my garage!) is because I disconnected battery before putting the multimeter in series
Motor Age Magazine OK. Thanks. I will have another go (I quite like the idea of checking voltage across all fuses idea). Its proving very difficult to identify though, so I think I'll be fitting a Battery Brain or PowerTector in the meantime
Thanx for your helpful video. You made it so easy to locate the power drop with the fuse check. But I have one question, what if you have to check a relay box?
All circuits are fuse protected, even those controlled by relay. You'll need to first identify what fuse is indicating an active circuit and then review the power distribution schematic to identify what circuits the fuse is protecting. You can then use a low amp clamp to further isolate the problem by clamping around the power wires feeding those individual loads.
Yes you stuff is useful but what if it's an intermittent key-off draining. I have a friend who has a 2006 BMW 325i that is dead two to three times a month (all hours calls "Can you come and jump my car.). Altenator (twice) and battery have been replaced with both testing out good. Thing can go dead in less than 4 hours. Nothing appears to be staying on. Is the solution crushing?
As a good friend once said, "There is no such thing as an intermittent problem. We just have not recreated the conditions under which the problem occurs." Try to find out as much as you can about how the vehicle is being operated or stored when the problem occurs. One tech reported a case of unknown battery drain only to discover that the customer was leaving the smart key in range of the car at night. The two were constantly communicating! Tracing with a scope may also be helpful, using an amp clamp on either side of the battery. Good luck, and I hope this helps!
is there a way of testing for draw at the battery using voltage drop? So you can be sure you have a problem before going through all the fuses? Could you just do a quick test between the chassis/block and the negative post? Cheers, Luke.
I plugged the lcm connector back in and my draw went back up to around 400ma. There are 2 branches on the circuit after the lcm, the rcm and the main light switch. This is where I am confused.. if I disconnect the main light switch while measuring amp draw I go from 400 ma up to 12.1 amps...how can this be? When I reconnec the main light switch I go bac down to 400ma. There are no lights on and the switch is in the off position. I don't want to recomend this lcm to my customer w/o bein posit.
Thanks for these lessons. I’ve a drain which has gotten worse. I’ve removed the main positive to maxifuses and the draw remains. On the other main positive cable I’ve disconnected the starter motor, then the alternator and the draw seemed to get worse. I put it all back together and the draw is still above 12 amps, Biggest fused draw I’ve come across is .8 for the fuel pump. Every fused draw I’ve found disappears when the car shuts down. How do I find this big draw? I disconected the alarm siren months ago. Regards
This caught my eye - "Every fused draw I’ve found disappears when the car shuts down." Are you testing drain with the key off engine off? If so, explain what you mean when you say "Every fused draw I’ve found disappears when the car shuts down."
@@MotorAgeMagazine hello I put all the fuses and relays back, checked the voltage drop on fuses running, All disappeared when the vehicle shut down as it’s supposed to. Still got a massive draw when decide to do an amp test when the pos reconnects which dies down but is still big. Disconnect the main pos feed to 5 maxi fuses and still the draw is there. Checked starter and alternator both seem fine.
@@peaandham1973 It sounds like you're testing for draw with the engine running. Draw is normal here. How are you taking your measurement? What is the problem you are trying to correct (that led you to suspect a draw)?
@@MotorAgeMagazine hello I’ve shut down everything with the engine off, pulled all the fuses, pulled all the relays, pulled the main pos lead to the feed to the 5 maxi fused main cables. This left only the other pos lead to the alternator and starter. Disconnected the starter and alternator. Put the battery neg back on each time and the draw got steadily worse. Put it all back together. When the engine is off and key removed locked and unlocked the battery voltage quickly reduces and if left it will go down to 5/6/7 bolts. When I take the negative lead off it’ll jump back up to 10 or 11 depending on how long I allow the negative to be on. So as far I can determine it’s nothing powered by the maxi fuse Main pos. I’ve checked, removed, cleaned the connections at starter motor, the voltage at the starter main connection is the same as the battery, the solenoid small connector is zero, the solenoid earths ok. On the alternator the big cable gives battery voltage when off and 14.3 when engine on. The body earth is good. The diode resistance is open circuit red to big screw black earth on the alternator body and about 600 black to big screw red to alt earth . Once I’d disconnected then reconnected the starter and alternator after cleaning the connections I reconnected everything up as per getting the car ready to fire up and It starts if the battery charge is still above 11.5v, The alternator charges at 14.3/5v As soon as I turn the engine off the voltage drops. This happened after a fully charged battery at 12.6v within a split second it drops to 11.3 then just goes down. When I put the 10amp dc current cables in series with the battery neg post and lead after all the disconnects and reconnects it started drawing 17Amps with a good spark to announce it. The car still starts and drives, holds a charge whilst the engine is on yet as soon as ignition is off the big draw recommences. I have to remove the negative lead every time or the battery will drain fully. Ordered an amp clamp and test lights as I need to see where the current is going. I’ll have to check again for lights and heat I think. Pretty stumped
Ive been doing checks for milliamps with a device that lets me remove a fuse and put in its cradle then plug into the holder. It tells you the draw. I was looking at the mv draw on the fuses also. I’ve done this several times when the car is asleep and awake. What threw me later was the big volt drop on connecting the 10Amp meter in series, I used the second meter to check the voltage drop. Definitely made a boob somewhere as one meter is No longer measuring current.
I have a very early vehicle ( No Computer ) I have done the classic test of ground cable off the battery to measure .24 with the multimeter set to 20A DC. When pulling each fuse all tested good and the fused circuits did not cause a drop in parasitic draw 😠. Tested the alternator diodes and got a reading with everything disconnected of 816 with the ground lead (black) to the charge output post and (red) to the alternator body itself. When I swap the leads I get no reading. With the two wires and the charge wire off the alternator I get no paristic power loss across the batterys negative post and the main battery ground cable. Does it sound like a bad alternator some how? With everything hooked up the alternator is putting out 14.7 to 15.1 volts depending on engine RPM so the internal voltage regulator seems ok. I am really stumped on this one......Help!
I would remove one wire/cable at a time to see which one causes the draw to stop first. Is the charge warning light in the instrument panel illuminated?
@@MotorAgeMagazine this vehicle has a 2 wire plug on the alternator. One wire is hooked into the harness but the other wire ( I believe for the warning light ) doesn't go to anything. Could this be the problem?
@@JDWard-Jeepster Looking at a generic wiring diagram, I don't think it makes a difference. Either the field coil is on all the time or the charge light circuit is grounded internal to the alternator. Replace the atlernator.
@ mortoragemagazine will you do a segment on can bus systems like what is it? How dose it work?? The way modules communicate on the bus.. Will there be anymore afterhours segments!??
thanks a lot for your time I like your chanel I learned a lot from it is have a Renault laguna 1.9 diesel it runs for few miles and stop completely it starts again after it get cold and the same again dies after few miles any suggestions please and thanks
Sounds like it's running out of fuel. I'm not familiar with the fuel delivery system but look for the volume of fuel being delivered - not just the pressure.
The third method, checking for current across the nodes on top of each fuse. I don't understand how that is able to give a reading while it's element is intact (not blown).
The fuse element has resistance...a very small resistance, but resistance nonetheless. And there will be a very small, and measurable, voltage drop across it when current is flowing. Try it!
I'm 100% positive there was nothing open. Verified a few diff ways the switches to trunk, hood, and glove are closed and function correctly. I even took out the light bulb. 2 of the fuses have one thing in common which is the lighed control module. I think something is keeping it on too. What do you think about when I disconnect the main light switch and amp goes up?
Pete : On my jump pack , there is an adapter to charge it in the cigarette lighter . Wouldn't this keep the system powered if plugged in ? I believe it would also work as a memory saver . Thanks for your information .
Send me the fuse numbers of the three that show current flow when all is off and sleeping. Let's start from there, but give me some time to look over the schematics. I do have a magazine to get out! :-)
Thanks for posting this. I have a question about the jumper box used in the first test. I see that you connected its lead to the battery accordingly, but would like to know what settings were employed on the jumper box? Thanks.
How can I without blowing dmm fuses? What would you say turns on all modules? When I hook my dmm up with out usind the tool of the neg post, everything connected I start about 2 amps, 10 sec later .8 amps one min later .4 amp problem that stays
I have isolated the problem to the IPC/DIC fuse which supplies power to the instrument cluster on a 2003 Silverado. The problem I am have now is proving it is the Instrument cluster and not one of the branch circuits feeding the instrument cluster. Any thought will be appreciated
If you can get a low amp clamp around the individual paths, you may be able to narrow it down further. You'll need a scope or a good DMM to see current flow that small though.
Motor Age Thanks for the info. Can you help me as to where I can purchase a low amp clamp-on. A clamp-on that works on DC is new to me. I have used clamp-on with AC .
Albert Keller There are many sources for handheld dedicated clamps, and clamps that are used with multimeters and/or scopes. Try AESWave(dot)com or your local tool truck!
Hey Pete.... what about intermittent parasitic voltage draw , like wipers that turn on intermittently? You could test the fuse when the signal is off and completely miss the 'parasitic draw' from that component. Method No.1 ... using the Max/Min facility on the DVOM ... will indicate intermittent voltage draw, from all components, won't it?
I made another video on this subject, and show a method for catching the intermittent. You're right - you can't track the draw source down unless it's active, so use a separate amp probe to monitor the draw and only test across the fuses when you see the draw occurring.
Please help. I have 91 camaro 305, starter solenoid clicks will not turn over. After 6-8 clicks it will turn over and start. I replaced starter twice, still the same. I have bypassed the ignition lead to the solenoid straight to the battery with a circuit breaker and push start switch and still have the same issue thinking that i eliminated the resistance. Why is it still clicking? Could the alternator be the issue. Thanks
First, make sure the battery is up to the task of turning over the engine. Second, spin the engine over manually to make sure that it is free to move and there isn't a mechanical issue causing your problem. Third, test the starter circuit (both on the ignition side AND the starter motor side) using voltage drop as a test method. Look especially at the starter ground to the engine block, and the block to the battery. Hope this helps!
I have a '08 Ford van and after testing, the A?C clutch circuit is draining the battery with the key off. Is the relay bad? I already replaced the compressor with a new one that had a new clutch that came with it. How can this circuit be draining the battery with the key off?
Nice! i must test this method myself! Got a Volvo S40N 2006 with some kind of battery drain. This method seems to be better instead of clamping or attach probes in cable end and the other on the battery negative. etc.. but how can i know how long it will take for my car to go into "sleep mode" ?
Hello! I am having trouble with a new head unit I installed, its drawing .072 amps when the unit is plugged in and when its unplugged I get a reading of .020 amps. The unit came with a wiring harness so i didn't have to cut anything.
Need to know a bit more about the problem. Year/make/model of car? Where are you measuring the current flow? Have you tried waiting an hour or two to see if the head unit is working like an ECU?
More and more i love voltage drop. Love the teaching
""""As an ex motor mechanic , with over 40 years experience , It was a pleasure to listen to , and watch your test procedures , well done and best regards from Ireland
Thanks!
You NAILed it(fooling modules with the UNinterupted Sequence about their battery continuity) with the 'Jumper Box!
Thanks for leaving this old video up. The third method beats all in my opinion. Can't wait to get started on Monday.
Love the way you teach with detail and show what your doing
Like the speed he talks. The level of volume he uses. The content. The way he does not detract from the point of the video. Good trainer. a motor AGE trainer
Thanks James!
@@MotorAgeMagazine please. I am a mobile mechanic and get bored of most videos except yours. Class
Thank you very much for this video. I have the battery drain problem with my Nissan Maxima, it has a brand new battery in it but every day I have to use a portable battery to jump start it. Huge pain in the you know what. I don't have the tools to do these tests and even if I had I don't have enough confidence I could do them right, so I will have to take the car to shop but at least I won't sound like a total idiot when I tell them what needs to be done and they won't be able to take me for a ride with the price. Thanks again.
Just goes to show you never stop learning. Thanks for teaching me something new, excellent video.
I can not thank you enough for this video. I have this very specific problem with my car and surprise! here is a very specific video addressing my problem. Again, thank you Motor Age and I am subscribing! Have a nice day :)
Glad you found it useful!
Very nice presentation Pete!
Thank you for your time and valuable teaching. Truly plain and simple. This teaching was made so much easier by your step by step process as I have been watching several of the video's on this subject here on Utube and this one has topped them all in my book. Marvelous, simply marvelous.
The best video I have seen on this topic.
Thank you for the kind words!
Finally a good way to do this. Have a jump box too. Also have a new NAPA battery, but I really hope I don't find a drain.
Excellent presentation.
Really good parasitic drain video. First one to mention keeping the vehicle powered to not shut off the parasitic drain. I have been to 2 garages and they can not find the issue. Im guessing they skipped that step if they even did the parasitic drain test at all (just learning all this myself now).
My truck keeps randomly having a dead battery but sometimes it can sit for over a week and start fine. Its also sometimes running at 16v I have never been more frustrated in my life. Who ever heard of spending money on a vehicle to not fix it... (did some blind fixes so its on me i guess...)
Really good and clear video on parasitic draw which is a problem I'm trying to resolve on one of my cars. Thank you!
One of the most informative videos I've ever seen, good job and thanks
Thanks for taking the time out to watch and comment!
Excellent way of finding this type of fault
Excellent video, thank you for the presentation!
excellent presentation and by far the most sensible approach to this troublesome vehicular anomaly
Booty
The amperage increase happens when I have followed the appropriate steps to begin testing. I allow time for verything to shut down then I have my meter in series via quick disconnect adapter for draw testing and monitor the draw disconnecting main light switch when I disconnect it the amperage shoots up to 12.1 amps. Thank you very much for talking with me, even if I don't come to soution, I really appreciate having someone to bounce ideas.
Thnx a lot ; YOUR explanation is very clear and it will help me do away with the PARASITIC battery drain of my C200 and SLK 230
Glad to hear it!
thanx MOTOR AGE
Thanks for watching!
I'm working on a 03 lincoln towncar and I'm confused about something. 1st off I have a draw reading on 3 different fuses? 2nd when measing amp at the battery if I disconnect fuse #1 the draw decreases from 400ma to 200ma, if I disconnect fuse#2 I'm down to 80ma and fuse#3 down to 15ma. I decided to chase the one wth the highest draw. It lead me to a lightin control module, I disconnected the harness there and I dropped from 400ma to 80ma...then...
huge thanks for posting this video. ive been fighting a problem like this for months now, and with your video i think i found the problem! thanks again
That's why we do what we do! Thanks for taking the time to comment.
Awesome video. Thank you!!!!
Its fuse 2.31 if youd like to check it out. Thank you again for taking time to talk with me. I got a few of yalls ase study guides a year or so ago, I still like to go back and read them sometimes.
nice video I have done that in the past I was just tell a guy in our shop to look for a drain that way yesterday
Thanks! Glad you liked it. Hope you find it helpful next time you're looking for a thief!
This is an excellent video, very useful information, thank you :)
Thanks for watching and telling us what you thought of it. Glad you found it helpful!
Hey, we'll add it to the list and see what we can do. Unfortunately, no, the "After Hours" segment is no longer being done. Instead, we started "In The Workshop". Same idea, just pre-recorded. You can still participate in the live webinars, though! There are 23 of them this year! Just sign up for the newsletter. The link is on our channel page.
First, the battery must be connected to the system. There can be no voltage drop unless current is flowing and that won't happen unless the circuit is complete. Second, make sure the system is timed out, no lights are on, no doors are open, no convenience systems (a/c, heater fan, radio) are on. EVERYTHING must be off. Last, your meter has to be accurate to read in this millivolt range. A cheap auto parts meter won't do the job. Hope this helps!
VERY EDUCATIVE.THANK YOU REGARDS
A Great video and presentation. Thank You
Really great video and so well explained. My VW LT 35 van has a parasitic drain, unfortunately it also has a host of 'add on' accessories including a 'base box' of all things. Coupled to that LED and emergency spot lights for working at night, I think I may have some trouble finding which circuits these are 'fixed into' ....but at least I understand how to do this now. Many thanks once again...
very nice video guy thanks I'll try these.
Back from vacation, and had a chance to look over the diagrams. If you pulled a fuse and then put your meter in series to measure the current draw, that counts as opening the circuit and that could wake up a module. Go back to the three fuses and send me the millivolt reading you get on each.
Interesting idea Luke. Current, voltage and resistance are all related. It works across the fuses because the fuse is a known resistance. Using the battery connections, though, would introduce a variable resistance factor you really couldn't account for. And with the voltage drop reading so small (usually less than 20-30 millivolts depending on the fuse style) it would be enough of a variable to skew the test results.
Outstanding, thanks for explianing.
Thank you, you really know your stuff. Using your voltage drop method I can't find anything in my car so I'm gonna stop worrying my battery voltage for now and I'll just wait and see if the battery will drain again. It did before, and I took it to the car electrician and he repaired two things but I still see my battery volltage dropping slowly.
I have an expensive amp clamp from Fluke, and I'm not very impressed with it's measurement accuracy at the kind of low DC amp draw in a typical parasitic drain situation. I'm glad to hear you have the same experience, since I wasn't too happy to be looking for another clamp. I think your idea to measure voltage drop across fuses is the best screening test to narrow the search.
And last question. How did you determine that these three fuses were involved in the drain? Did you measure voltage drop across them, or did you pull them to see what current flow did on your ammeter?
Very Good....! I felt like I was back in High School I Mr Ward's class
on the digital meter do i use dcv or dca or other
Use the millivolt setting on your meter when using the fuse/voltage drop method. Amps if placing your meter in series with the negative cable.
It's just two 12v batteries wired in series, like a golf cart, to raise the supply voltage. Most of the techniques shown in the video will work just fine on these systems.
400 ma is a lot of draw! It is important to be sure that all the onboard computers have timed out before you start hunting for the cause. This can take anywhere from 30 minutes to 8 hours, depending on the make/model. Are the doors/trunk/hood open when you measured the draw?The lighting module may be actively online.
You'll need to see what the three fuses have in common, if anything, but I'd look at the fuse NOT related to the lighting circuit. I think that 80-15 drop is the one you're after.
I still use the direct reading method using my old Fox Valley 965 digital DDM meter with a shunt, still to this day gives me accurate readings. Sometimes old methods are still the best.
Well done.
Great video. Thanks.
Thanks for the tips!
This was 10 yrs. ago. Kaweets now makes a sweet parasitic tester that makes this job a lot easier..
Very good teaching , one question of the third method , current drop measering. Some fuses are not with the 2 measure points. They are smaller as that You measure. How do you measure such kind of fuses
pretty sharp, voltage drop never tried that during parasitic draw testing.
The phone/charger is a load on the battery, right? So sure, it can be a factor in your draining battery. Check it out and keep us posted!
Thanks for the tips . I found out two of my fuses were draining my battery .the fuses are 50amp( battery and 10amp ( I.O.D )what should I do next to fix the problem ? Replacing these fuses will fix my battery draining problem or not . Please your comment will be appreciated . Thanks
You would think so, wouldn't you? But now, the fuse has a resistance and there will be a measurable voltage drop if current is flowing through it. Not much, you'll need to measure in millivolts, but it is there.
It's not the fuses, but something that the fuses supply power to that is causing your problem. You'll need a "Power Distribution" wiring diagram so you can see what the two fuses send power to. I'm betting that the battery fuse is sending power to the IOD fuse, and I'd start there. Be sure to allow the control modules enough time to "go to sleep" before you take your measurements!
thumbs up. Good video
I have a 1997 Ford Taurus I've checked all fuses for the headlights I still have no headlights I have turn signals I have running lights I have flasher oncoming traffic headlight no dims no brights can you help
I've got an 03 grand marquis and when I do a parasitic test it shows 0.03 amps but my battery dies in 2 days if I don't disconnect the negative cable
I am currently working on a 2002 Taurus . The battery which is only 19 months old , goes down after a few days . I fully charged it and disconnected it . It fails under a load test after sitting , disconnected , after a week .The car , after a parasitic drain test was at 20 milliamps - well within specs . It took an hour or more to power down . You can do a ripple voltage test on the alternator . That will tell you if the diodes are bad and allowing current to drain when the system is not running . The alternator on the 3.0L , DOHC Taurus is HORRIBLY burried , so that test is almost impossible with a DVOM . I have a Electronic Specialties 725 Battery Tester and it will run the test at the battery . Many high end testers have this . I would also fully check the charging system . Make sure no add on items such as alarms , radios , etc. are powered on . Sometimes a rear wiper is stuck on and keeps trying to " PARK " itself , even cycling every few seconds or longer .
Go back to the lighting control module you disconnected earlier. You'll need a low amp clamp and meter for the next step.Divide the wires at the connector in half (or as needed to allow the amp clamp to wrap around them) and measure the draw. What you are trying to do is isolate the ONE wire that is pulling that 400 ma. of current. You can then use the wiring schematic to see where that wire is going. Isolate that cause first. It could be a defective module.
That is the 2013 Ford Taurus SHO! We got to take it for a week, courtesy of some friends at Ford.
Thanks for the video, I have a 2009 f150 that has a battery related problems. the battery was tested 6 months ago and they said it was fine.
Will try method 3 if I can find a multimeter that I can borrow.
I'm also aware that I do have a blown fuse as one of the AC power outlets doesn't work.
Not sure if this should happen or not, but if I plug my phone and charger in, remove keys, the phone charger will have power for several hours. Needles to say the battery would be dead after 30 minutes.
I have another question. Say I find a draw on the main power or ground wire for the lighted control module. How will I know there isn't something esle telling the module to stay awake via the can bus wires?
If you have even a momentary break in the circuit when you switch over to the meter, you'll wake everybody up. And 12 amps with the switch disconnected? That's a lot of draw. Would need to study the schematic to figure that one out. What kind of meter are you using?
Before we go to all that trouble, measure the drain when all the modules are awake for comparison.
👍 thanks again!
Excellent!
The only thing I see in common between fuses 31 and 30 is the trunk lid release circuit. Try disconnecting the solenoid in the trunk lock assy and see what that does to your millivolt reading. I really think that when you pull the fuse, you are waking up several of the modules. You can also use a
Like the volt drop test, never thought about using it across the fuses, I found the same amp clamp using the Pico scope to be very accurate though.
Agreed, the low amp clamp coupled to any scope is more stable than the signal rec'd by most digital multimeters.
More than likely you "woke up" other modules on the car. Like I said earlier, it is imperative that you allow all the modules to go offline before you measure the draw. Keep us posted on your progress!
Excellent but how does a diy guy get hold of the power distribution diagram.
Brilliant! I knew about the multimeter, in series option, but your video has opened my eyes to other ways. I'm struggling to identify my parasitic drain but I think that may be because I have to disconnect the battery and then connect multimeter. Just wondering if the reason it hasnt shown up (after days of watching it in my garage!) is because I disconnected battery before putting the multimeter in series
Could be, especially if it's a control module that is causing the drain.
Motor Age Magazine
OK. Thanks. I will have another go (I quite like the idea of checking voltage across all fuses idea). Its proving very difficult to identify though, so I think I'll be fitting a Battery Brain or PowerTector in the meantime
Great job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanx for your helpful video. You made it so easy to locate the power drop with the fuse check. But I have one question, what if you have to check a relay box?
Only way I know is to pull each one and see if theres a drop other than taking it off and testing the leads with the voltmeter
All circuits are fuse protected, even those controlled by relay. You'll need to first identify what fuse is indicating an active circuit and then review the power distribution schematic to identify what circuits the fuse is protecting. You can then use a low amp clamp to further isolate the problem by clamping around the power wires feeding those individual loads.
Very imformative thankyou!
Yes you stuff is useful but what if it's an intermittent key-off draining. I have a friend who has a 2006 BMW 325i that is dead two to three times a month (all hours calls "Can you come and jump my car.). Altenator (twice) and battery have been replaced with both testing out good. Thing can go dead in less than 4 hours. Nothing appears to be staying on. Is the solution crushing?
As a good friend once said, "There is no such thing as an intermittent problem. We just have not recreated the conditions under which the problem occurs." Try to find out as much as you can about how the vehicle is being operated or stored when the problem occurs. One tech reported a case of unknown battery drain only to discover that the customer was leaving the smart key in range of the car at night. The two were constantly communicating! Tracing with a scope may also be helpful, using an amp clamp on either side of the battery. Good luck, and I hope this helps!
That’s great for parasitic drains that are permanent but if it’s intermittent how do you do that?
is there a way of testing for draw at the battery using voltage drop? So you can be sure you have a problem before going through all the fuses? Could you just do a quick test between the chassis/block and the negative post?
Cheers, Luke.
I plugged the lcm connector back in and my draw went back up to around 400ma. There are 2 branches on the circuit after the lcm, the rcm and the main light switch. This is where I am confused.. if I disconnect the main light switch while measuring amp draw I go from 400 ma up to 12.1 amps...how can this be? When I reconnec the main light switch I go bac down to 400ma. There are no lights on and the switch is in the off position. I don't want to recomend this lcm to my customer w/o bein posit.
Thanks for these lessons.
I’ve a drain which has gotten worse. I’ve removed the main positive to maxifuses and the draw remains. On the other main positive cable I’ve disconnected the starter motor, then the alternator and the draw seemed to get worse.
I put it all back together and the draw is still above 12 amps,
Biggest fused draw I’ve come across is .8 for the fuel pump. Every fused draw I’ve found disappears when the car shuts down.
How do I find this big draw? I disconected the alarm siren months ago. Regards
This caught my eye - "Every fused draw I’ve found disappears when the car shuts down." Are you testing drain with the key off engine off? If so, explain what you mean when you say "Every fused draw I’ve found disappears when the car shuts down."
@@MotorAgeMagazine hello I put all the fuses and relays back, checked the voltage drop on fuses running,
All disappeared when the vehicle shut down as it’s supposed to.
Still got a massive draw when decide to do an amp test when the pos reconnects which dies down but is still big. Disconnect the main pos feed to 5 maxi fuses and still the draw is there. Checked starter and alternator both seem fine.
@@peaandham1973 It sounds like you're testing for draw with the engine running. Draw is normal here. How are you taking your measurement? What is the problem you are trying to correct (that led you to suspect a draw)?
@@MotorAgeMagazine hello I’ve shut down everything with the engine off, pulled all the fuses, pulled all the relays, pulled the main pos lead to the feed to the 5 maxi fused main cables. This left only the other pos lead to the alternator and starter. Disconnected the starter and alternator. Put the battery neg back on each time and the draw got steadily worse. Put it all back together. When the engine is off and key removed locked and unlocked the battery voltage quickly reduces and if left it will go down to 5/6/7 bolts. When I take the negative lead off it’ll jump back up to 10 or 11 depending on how long I allow the negative to be on.
So as far I can determine it’s nothing powered by the maxi fuse Main pos.
I’ve checked, removed, cleaned the connections at starter motor, the voltage at the starter main connection is the same as the battery, the solenoid small connector is zero, the solenoid earths ok. On the alternator the big cable gives battery voltage when off and 14.3 when engine on. The body earth is good. The diode resistance is open circuit red to big screw black earth on the alternator body and about 600 black to big screw red to alt earth .
Once I’d disconnected then reconnected the starter and alternator after cleaning the connections I reconnected everything up as per getting the car ready to fire up and
It starts if the battery charge is still above 11.5v,
The alternator charges at 14.3/5v
As soon as I turn the engine off the voltage drops. This happened after a fully charged battery at 12.6v within a split second it drops to 11.3 then just goes down.
When I put the 10amp dc current cables in series with the battery neg post and lead after all the disconnects and reconnects it started drawing 17Amps with a good spark to announce it.
The car still starts and drives, holds a charge whilst the engine is on yet as soon as ignition is off the big draw recommences. I have to remove the negative lead every time or the battery will drain fully. Ordered an amp clamp and test lights as I need to see where the current is going.
I’ll have to check again for lights and heat I think. Pretty stumped
Ive been doing checks for milliamps with a device that lets me remove a fuse and put in its cradle then plug into the holder. It tells you the draw.
I was looking at the mv draw on the fuses also. I’ve done this several times when the car is asleep and awake.
What threw me later was the big volt drop on connecting the 10Amp meter in series, I used the second meter to check the voltage drop. Definitely made a boob somewhere as one meter is
No longer measuring current.
I have a very early vehicle ( No Computer ) I have done the classic test of ground cable off the battery to measure .24 with the multimeter set to 20A DC. When pulling each fuse all tested good and the fused circuits did not cause a drop in parasitic draw 😠. Tested the alternator diodes and got a reading with everything disconnected of 816 with the ground lead (black) to the charge output post and (red) to the alternator body itself. When I swap the leads I get no reading. With the two wires and the charge wire off the alternator I get no paristic power loss across the batterys negative post and the main battery ground cable. Does it sound like a bad alternator some how? With everything hooked up the alternator is putting out 14.7 to 15.1 volts depending on engine RPM so the internal voltage regulator seems ok. I am really stumped on this one......Help!
I would remove one wire/cable at a time to see which one causes the draw to stop first. Is the charge warning light in the instrument panel illuminated?
@@MotorAgeMagazine this vehicle has a 2 wire plug on the alternator. One wire is hooked into the harness but the other wire ( I believe for the warning light ) doesn't go to anything. Could this be the problem?
@@JDWard-Jeepster Looking at a generic wiring diagram, I don't think it makes a difference. Either the field coil is on all the time or the charge light circuit is grounded internal to the alternator. Replace the atlernator.
@ mortoragemagazine will you do a segment on can bus systems like what is it? How dose it work?? The way modules communicate on the bus.. Will there be anymore afterhours segments!??
thanks a lot for your time I like your chanel I learned a lot from it
is have a Renault laguna 1.9 diesel it runs for few miles and stop completely it starts again after it get cold and the same again dies after few miles any suggestions please and thanks
Sounds like it's running out of fuel. I'm not familiar with the fuel delivery system but look for the volume of fuel being delivered - not just the pressure.
The third method, checking for current across the nodes on top of each fuse. I don't understand how that is able to give a reading while it's element is intact (not blown).
The fuse element has resistance...a very small resistance, but resistance nonetheless. And there will be a very small, and measurable, voltage drop across it when current is flowing. Try it!
Motor Age
okay, i see. Thanks.
I'm 100% positive there was nothing open. Verified a few diff ways the switches to trunk, hood, and glove are closed and function correctly. I even took out the light bulb. 2 of the fuses have one thing in common which is the lighed control module. I think something is keeping it on too. What do you think about when I disconnect the main light switch and amp goes up?
Pete : On my jump pack , there is an adapter to charge it in the cigarette lighter . Wouldn't this keep the system powered if plugged in ? I believe it would also work as a memory saver . Thanks for your information .
Keeping memory alive by plugging into the cigarette lighter (now the Power Outlet) used to work - but no longer and not for some time.
I’m sorry but I can’t make out how you have the meter setup for voltage drop.Please advise.
Set your meter to the millivolts scale and place a meter lead on either side of the fuse. ANY reading indicates that current is flowing...
Send me the fuse numbers of the three that show current flow when all is off and sleeping. Let's start from there, but give me some time to look over the schematics. I do have a magazine to get out! :-)
Thanks for posting this. I have a question about the jumper box used in the first test. I see that you connected its lead to the battery accordingly, but would like to know what settings were employed on the jumper box? Thanks.
No settings available on this unit. It's just a deep cycle battery housed in a plastic case.
Learned a valuable lesion from this video thank you for posting it.
AWESOME !!!!
How can I without blowing dmm fuses? What would you say turns on all modules? When I hook my dmm up with out usind the tool of the neg post, everything connected I start about 2 amps, 10 sec later .8 amps one min later .4 amp problem that stays
I have isolated the problem to the IPC/DIC fuse which supplies power to the instrument cluster on a 2003 Silverado. The problem I am have now is proving it is the Instrument cluster and not one of the branch circuits feeding the instrument cluster. Any thought will be appreciated
If you can get a low amp clamp around the individual paths, you may be able to narrow it down further. You'll need a scope or a good DMM to see current flow that small though.
Motor Age Thanks for the info. Can you help me as to where I can purchase a low amp clamp-on. A clamp-on that works on DC is new to me. I have used clamp-on with AC .
Albert Keller There are many sources for handheld dedicated clamps, and clamps that are used with multimeters and/or scopes. Try AESWave(dot)com or your local tool truck!
Hey Pete.... what about intermittent parasitic voltage draw , like wipers that turn on intermittently? You could test the fuse when the signal is off and completely miss the 'parasitic draw' from that component.
Method No.1 ... using the Max/Min facility on the DVOM ... will indicate intermittent voltage draw, from all components, won't it?
I made another video on this subject, and show a method for catching the intermittent. You're right - you can't track the draw source down unless it's active, so use a separate amp probe to monitor the draw and only test across the fuses when you see the draw occurring.
@@MotorAgeMagazine Thanks Pete for your prompt reply, Ill check that video Best regards.
Please help. I have 91 camaro 305, starter solenoid clicks will not turn over. After 6-8 clicks it will turn over and start. I replaced starter twice, still the same. I have bypassed the ignition lead to the solenoid straight to the battery with a circuit breaker and push start switch and still have the same issue thinking that i eliminated the resistance. Why is it still clicking? Could the alternator be the issue. Thanks
First, make sure the battery is up to the task of turning over the engine. Second, spin the engine over manually to make sure that it is free to move and there isn't a mechanical issue causing your problem. Third, test the starter circuit (both on the ignition side AND the starter motor side) using voltage drop as a test method. Look especially at the starter ground to the engine block, and the block to the battery. Hope this helps!
I have a '08 Ford van and after testing, the A?C clutch circuit is draining the battery with the key off. Is the relay bad? I already replaced the compressor with a new one that had a new clutch that came with it. How can this circuit be draining the battery with the key off?
Nice! i must test this method myself!
Got a Volvo S40N 2006 with some kind of battery drain.
This method seems to be better instead of clamping or attach probes in cable end and the other on the battery negative. etc..
but how can i know how long it will take for my car to go into "sleep mode" ?
Hello! I am having trouble with a new head unit I installed, its drawing .072 amps when the unit is plugged in and when its unplugged I get a reading of .020 amps. The unit came with a wiring harness so i didn't have to cut anything.
Need to know a bit more about the problem. Year/make/model of car? Where are you measuring the current flow? Have you tried waiting an hour or two to see if the head unit is working like an ECU?
Motor Age measuring from the neg terminal to the disconnected neg lead, okay I waited a while and the draw dropped down. Thanks!
Daniel Williamson ;-)
I have a question. on older vehicles such as 99 dodge ram. should you use the hot wire or neg wire? does it really matter?
Thanks!