It is cool that we go hard on these pre-production wheels... Makes the industry better overall.. Thank you for being an important part of that process.
I’m just here in the comment section to say … Many thanks for doing this kind of review videos. This kind of information is so valuable for the future buyers and to know exactly what are you buying. Because the sellers or producers all the time advertise a top class product and that flies and so on and on. But of course we all know that with these unicycle you can face a lot of different problems. So far, still Leaperkim it’s the most promising from all companies I would say. They inspire trust and top class quality. Many thanks again, greetings from Europe. 🎩
Very good video. The first step to cure is to identify and accept the disease. I would really like this new company to succeed, even if only for the competition. More of them fighting for the market share can only mean better wheels for us.
We appreciate the feedback and I wanted to help provide some updated information to everyone: 1. Resonance is fixed through firmware(all wheels are shipped with the latest firmware)I’m not sure if I told you, if not my fault. There is also foam we put on the upper stanchion bridge. Which we have managed to resolve with every single unit with this combo. But if you have done both and you still have this issue please let me know. 2. Rubber mold for bottom out. Initially we had shorter screws but we worried the button tops wouldn’t be strong enough(they are less durable than socket head hex) which obviously as you’ve stated contacts the block earlier, we figured this would be a better approach than having stripped screws. 3. Firmware being fixed, still trying to solve for sure. 4. Sliders: the sliders you used felt really good at the start due to low viscosity lubricants which would leak out quickly. I believe we mentioned to you that we now use a good blend between low and high，medium viscosity you could say to ensure it’s kept within the stanchion for a good period. We’ve tested full day of riding in dusty environment, we didn’t have issues of it getting stuck and have been riding it since without adding lubrication, will continue to keep an eye out on this and continue to test. 5. Shock- I personally have been buying shocks but have not been able to find a shock better than the improved DNM shocks. The reason why I believe they are better is because DNM have custom built these shocks for us to cater to our use case. We require more strength than a MTB, so we are happy that this partnership allows DNM and NOSFER to create a better air shock for EUCs. Thank you, Jack
@mikhailkova I'm running a Fox Float X2 on my Ex30 at 220psi and I'm 260# geared up. Custom billet low ratio linkage though. Upgrading seals is a bandaid for an engineering problem imo.
For Item 2. Do you mean to say there are changes being made to the rubber block or are you just explaining what happened? When you talk about stripping the screws do you just mean that we might strip them when trying to loosen the screws? I would rather be careful to not strip hardware than to just not allow the wheel to move properly.. Item 5. Would it not have been possible to design a linkage that works with all of the shocks rather than designing a linkage that only works with a special shock? If the linkage was designed to work with a standard shock the DNM would surely also work (for stock assembly cost purposes)
My mountain bike seat post dropper has a special Allen key that you use and a very simple process to purge any air that got into the negative chamber, which happens every once in a while. It takes one minute and then everything goes back to perfect operation.
Big thanks to Matt and Marty for recording this video! This is real-world testing we need to make these wheels awesome! I hope Jack and the Nosfet team will resolve these issues in production model. Sad to see so much discouragemnt in the comments aimed at the very people who are so passionate about EUCs and are willing to bring something new to this sport/hobby.
sliders + dust + dirt will always be a challenge, even motorbike forks leak. interesting insights, just really shows how good wheels get in the 3rd and 4th revisions After all these upgrades and improvements. its a shame most people don't get to see all the failures and revision upgrades that make these wheels so much better.
I commented on your first video when the linkage bent/teeth sheered and I said I wonder how this impacted the stanchion tubes, I think this follow up shows that with that angular pressure on the stanchions, it may have ruined the alignment/bushings within the stanchions possibly allowing more debris blowby and causing the stiction. Curious how they address the tubes. Still not convinced the "hardened" aluminum teeth will hold up to riders like Shibby. For large and hard drops i would take a guess that those teeth will sheer off again.
'we expected a Lynx with better suspension, but this is an S22 with more power' - YIKES. I love my S22, but I'm hoping that future iterations of Apex don't get the S22 reputation.
I was wondering how those smaller shocks and hard anodized stanchions would work out. This video had all the answers. Sounds like the linkage could benefit from a geometry change for a longer stroke shock to bring the overall ratio lower. A 1000# spring is already uncommon so finding options to fine tune might prove difficult. A lower ratio would allow for lighter, easier to source springs and lower airshock pressures. You need a low volume airshock to get the poppy ride Matt likes. Thanks for hitting key points like stiction and maintaining a linkage/slider suspension. Seems like Begode's stainless stanchions and brass/ graphite bushings might have the upper hand here. I'm excited to see how they aim to solve these issues! I know that it took me a couple iterations to perfect my 150mm travel Extreme. The problem solving is always the most interesting part of a build. Vince
I know you have experience in this field. It sounds like Nosfet is saying it is not an option to create a linkage that uses a standard MTB shock and that they must use the specific DNM shock that has been tuned to work with EUC. What is your opinion, is it possible? If it is not, why?
@trubttam it's 100% possible, although imo, getting rid of the height adjustment to simplify everything would also be a good move. It's easy to see why the geometry needs to be changed. Add an EUC's sprung weight to the mix and suddenly shocks have to support 100% of a good amount of weight plus don't get the 20/80 split like an mtb has. For reference, my 150mm travel Extreme uses a 85mm stroke shock and 750# spring. The leverage ratio curve is dialed in enough for me to be able to hardcore offroad it yet still allow for a 120# female to also ride it comfortably without any changes. Anything is possible, but I would assume their answers and reasons are the way they are due to the investment already made in the linkage design and manufacturing with fixtures. If they can't give you a solution then I'm offering my services. Whatever you need man. I'll be in LA for a week for TEF1 and AVS, would love to check it out again. Vince
Very good feedback! Thank you for the video. I think you give too much weight on the demo linkage, I.E. I think it should be considered as 3d-printed test part. Though Nosfet might have inform not to do any bigger impacts untill real linkage is installed. Begode uses dry sliders and brass bushings with graphite. Don't like it nor do I like S22 style because of maintenance, so far Leaper have had the most durable and maintenance free solution in my opinion. OWW all the dirt in the fairing 😆
I wish suspension wheels came with strut boots, or were designed so people could add aftermarket boots of their own. Being from a dry climate, dust is an issue. And due to lack of accessibility, I can't wipe mine off easily, so all I can do is blow the dust off with air.
They could but when presented with this information Nosfet responded that they will not be revising it and that everything is working as they intended. I think it's a mistake.
The same errors as begode and Inmotion did - custom shocks. It's complicated thing, you can't do it right if you don't have tons of experience, money and time. Do not invent a wheel - use already existing shocks with good reputation
Begode: made a custom shock INMOTION: made a custom shock with fast ace for v14 As for LK and KS they all have custom shocks. LK is fastace, it’s not an off the shelf size or part, KS is the same with DNM. So to answer your statement basically no one in the current market uses a stock shock for good reason. The last edition of wheels to use complete stock shock is S22, S18.
@ ok, but Fastace actually made the same shock construction for LK as they doing for others, inner construction is the same. It was properly tested long time before they even started working with LK. That's why it works fine with minimal maintenance. That was the main point Thanks for looking at feedback, appreciate it
@ hey Monarch, actually if you take apart an LK suspension from Sherman s vs LyNX you’ll find differences. From first edition Sherman s where it leaked to where it is now. Its a painful but must needed journey of product development. The suspension has upgrades internally throughout revisions which is why it’s so good right now.
Hopefully the stiction and resonance can be solved with lubrication, we just don't have their full manual available yet to tell us exactly what to use or how and where to apply it. The stuff I tried on the sanctions worked for maybe 5-10 miles before everything started feeling stuck again, hopefully you have better luck on the road!
The stiction in the sliders may come from the bushes not the seals. On traditional fork legs the teflon bushes are emersed in oil so the bushes have very low stiction. With this design the bushes maynot be immersed in oil. Also in traditioal fork legs one side of the seal is always wetted by oil.
@@liamventer Yeah the website claims to have very low friction and be manufactured like MTB forks. The sanctions themselves look very nice but the body they slide thru is very low tech, not filled with oil, no foam rings to keep the seals hydrated... Edit: I've been informed there is supposed to be lubricant inside the bodies but it must have leaked out.
@@trubttam Matt the prototype you have in your hands uses a low viscosity oil, rather than the medium viscosity used currently. There are no foam rings.
Personally, I wouldnt buy a batch 1 Apex. Too many issues &or potential issues. Dont blame it as its new company new wheel but still, I dont wanna deal with the hassles. Kudos to Matt for testing it
@@user-bp5py6bh3g your comment is not relevant to mine and i never said that it was different from begode, ks, or inmotion. my point still stands and in actuality, inmotion is probably the best euc manufacture with the most reliable wheels on the market that dont suffer from bullshit like this, even batch 1 wheels.
32:27 you can see on his video on the rocky parts when it's squeaking a lot the suspension barely moves, which is a shame but overengineering doesn't mean it's the best solution and it looks like it brought the worst from the s22 🙃
Thanks for overview. I don't get the point of joining the most controversial engineering decisions of euc world in a new wheel and presenting it like something revolutionary and hi tech... Sliders on pipes, which are already proved by begode and inmotion to be a bad idea, plus leaperkim controller with bugs, yes it might be software problem but no one knows for sure, and I don't understand the reasoning for casted spikes in pedals for trail ride.. and a of course its all for a premium price.
exactly, All the problems that have occurred so far were already visible to me when the first pictures and videos appeared. I absolutely cannot understand all this hype. I don't really want to talk about the alternatively supplied shock with steel spring, but doesn't anyone ask themselves how they want to tune it if they want to use the suspension adjustment? Have fun adjusting the sag. 🤦
Seeems just like an overly complicated lynx. The complications add no advantages and just introduce new problems. The simplest soluton that works well is usually the best.
yeah typically a fork is full of oil and you are trying to keep the oil inside the fork and the dust outside of the fork using seals, Nosfet expects us to keep the "oil" on the outside of the fork where the dust is and just keep re-applying it like crazy... The seals are not really seals but something for the lubricated sanctions to slide on that's not metal Edit: I've been informed that there should have been a lubricant of some kind inside the body but it all leaked out, and that they are still experimenting with compounds and also adding foam rings.
Just redesign the mounts to accept FastAce hydraulic shocks instead of the stanchions, thereby making the Apex into a dual suspension EUC. The F22pro will be the first dual suspension system but there’s dozens of ways to implement this configuration, if factory designed.
{tl;dr -might be uninteresting to most readers} @@liamventerThe primary reason to have only an air shock is weight reduction but it appears that the repeated failures and increased maintenance of seals indicates there is an inherent design flaw, which has been mitigated by adding a coil spring to system to relieve some of forces on the system. The weight saved with the air shock alone is not significant when the additional weight of the mechanical sliders/stanchions is necessary, where additional coil springs inside the sliders can help relieve the pressure off the air system alone. This has been implemented with various degrees of success but is still in its primitive stages of development. The FastAce hydraulic MTB fork suspension system does weight slightly more but is more easily integrated and has superior performance and maintenance characteristics. {This is my favorite suspension design thus far, and I recently purchased a used Sherman-S, for which I’m grateful.} Ideally, there shouldn’t be any need for a dual suspension system based upon added complications alone. But, as designs improve, we may/ should see a decoupling** of these two separate suspensions so that they can operate independently where the total weight of the rider and EUC is suspended by the primary hydraulic system and an independent air shock is used only to suspend the rider (and not the EUC) by placing between the EUC and the foot plates/pedals. {This would be similar to having an air-ride seat in a tractor-trailer vehicle where the driver is further isolated from the system that carries the weight of the vehicle. Note: the current F22pro dual system appears to be overdetermined/constrained in that the systems are coupled together.} By separating the rider’s suspension from the EUC suspension, we decrease the shock loading on both systems and (more importantly) increase the efficacy of each system so that an increase in the total travel distances over which the shock is absorbed can be achieved. This is slightly heavier than the existing designs but can then be improved further as the decoupling of the fixed connection between pedals and battery mass allows for dynamically variable height pedals where the vertical translation of each pedal can enable the inside leg on a turn to fully compress (at one’s knee) while the outside leg is fully extended, thereby lowering the overall center of mass while increasing the potential lean angle around curves. Additional complexity of this design would further prevent many more pedal clipping incidents (off-road) by enabling the rider to raise one pedal/foot while not turning so as to provide temporary clearance on one side or the other while riding upright. This potential alone is worthy of the weight penalty because of the increase in performance and safety. There are future iterations of such a dual suspension design that will provide additional functionality but that detail isn’t necessary to consider at this time. I do understand that the immediate reaction to a dual suspension system is the frustration of additional costs and weight but the existing designs are e exceedingly complicated yet insufficiently complex to handle the task, just as the initial iterations of MTB suspensions have been insufficient for earlier designs, as has been demonstrated in that industry sector’s maturation. Feel free to criticize as none of us have all the answers as to the stagnation of growth of the EUC market and poor design does effect is all. {that said, I do believe that the Apex’s variable height design is a significant improvement in design and may evolve into something unexpected, so I welcome NOSFET’s contribution to the community.
@@liamventerI had written a long response to this question but it looks like it was deleted. If you’re curious about why I believe dual suspension doesn’t have much weight penalty and why I believe it’s inevitable on all off-road EUCs, I’d be happy to expound on another platform, like FB.
@grb1969 The simplest good solution almost always wins. The simple light weight, 'low friction/sticktion hydraulic low maintenance, non comple link solution used on the Lynx will be very hard to beat, but can and will be refined further. Telescopic forks combine the slliders, springs and dampers in a simple low maintenance and highly effective solution. KISS principle.
@@lefotografion Most of the parts and build are by Leaperkim though, Jack did not build this wheel, leaperkim did. Jack just gave them the idea and what he wanted for the wheel which in my opinion was his mistake from the very getgo. As a matter of fact, there is so much Leaperkim in this wheel that it's basically all Leaperkim and nothing to do with jack or Nosfet
@@curtflirt2 you sure? I thought everything suspension was NOSFET Made, but that's just a rumor I heard. If it's really from leaperkim, good call on them for passing it on to NOSFET instead of damaging their own image
Who did they think they would be able to fool by manufacturing garbage like this and putting it on the market? This is *NOT* the way for a new company to start off!
Calm down it's better to find issues and problems before production unlike the s22 where people found out the hard way through crashes, fires, and other various issues AFTER the wheel was "done"
@ What am I not understanding here? Is this EUC not on the market right now? If it is, how is it not the company’s responsibility to fix these issues before these things get bought by the consumers? What about the consumers who buy these things?
It's not. They haven't been delivered to the public yet. These are test wheels (pre-production) like a beta access for a game If you're into gaming. That means they can still fix these issues.
@@kutvis Ok, but only an innocent question here…Is that not the same NOSFET Apex that eWheels has on sale on their website right now for $3,499? Help me out please, I guess I’m confused.
Cool video! Thanks guys for the valuable info!
It is cool that we go hard on these pre-production wheels... Makes the industry better overall.. Thank you for being an important part of that process.
Given the problems, I will wait for V3 which will surely be the best with a trolley 😋 to replace my S22
The ups, the downs.. and more downs and then more?
Thank you so much Marty and Matt!
I’m just here in the comment section to say …
Many thanks for doing this kind of review videos.
This kind of information is so valuable for the future buyers and to know exactly what are you buying.
Because the sellers or producers all the time advertise a top class product and that flies and so on and on.
But of course we all know that with these unicycle you can face a lot of different problems.
So far, still Leaperkim it’s the most promising from all companies I would say.
They inspire trust and top class quality.
Many thanks again, greetings from Europe.
🎩
Matt's a good analyser 👍should get more input from him in future. 😊
Very good video. The first step to cure is to identify and accept the disease. I would really like this new company to succeed, even if only for the competition. More of them fighting for the market share can only mean better wheels for us.
We appreciate the feedback and I wanted to help provide some updated information to everyone:
1. Resonance is fixed through firmware(all wheels are shipped with the latest firmware)I’m not sure if I told you, if not my fault. There is also foam we put on the upper stanchion bridge. Which we have managed to resolve with every single unit with this combo. But if you have done both and you still have this issue please let me know.
2. Rubber mold for bottom out. Initially we had shorter screws but we worried the button tops wouldn’t be strong enough(they are less durable than socket head hex) which obviously as you’ve stated contacts the block earlier, we figured this would be a better approach than having stripped screws.
3. Firmware being fixed, still trying to solve for sure.
4. Sliders: the sliders you used felt really good at the start due to low viscosity lubricants which would leak out quickly. I believe we mentioned to you that we now use a good blend between low and high，medium viscosity you could say to ensure it’s kept within the stanchion for a good period. We’ve tested full day of riding in dusty environment, we didn’t have issues of it getting stuck and have been riding it since without adding lubrication, will continue to keep an eye out on this and continue to test.
5. Shock- I personally have been buying shocks but have not been able to find a shock better than the improved DNM shocks. The reason why I believe they are better is because DNM have custom built these shocks for us to cater to our use case. We require more strength than a MTB, so we are happy that this partnership allows DNM and NOSFER to create a better air shock for EUCs.
Thank you,
Jack
How about grade 8 button head screws?
fox, cane creek, rockshox engineer's like: wait a minute...
@mikhailkova I'm running a Fox Float X2 on my Ex30 at 220psi and I'm 260# geared up. Custom billet low ratio linkage though.
Upgrading seals is a bandaid for an engineering problem imo.
@ there is more than seals upgraded…
For Item 2. Do you mean to say there are changes being made to the rubber block or are you just explaining what happened? When you talk about stripping the screws do you just mean that we might strip them when trying to loosen the screws? I would rather be careful to not strip hardware than to just not allow the wheel to move properly..
Item 5. Would it not have been possible to design a linkage that works with all of the shocks rather than designing a linkage that only works with a special shock? If the linkage was designed to work with a standard shock the DNM would surely also work (for stock assembly cost purposes)
My mountain bike seat post dropper has a special Allen key that you use and a very simple process to purge any air that got into the negative chamber, which happens every once in a while. It takes one minute and then everything goes back to perfect operation.
Appreciate your honest feedback! The wheel seems impressive, requiring only slight refinements.
Big thanks to Matt and Marty for recording this video! This is real-world testing we need to make these wheels awesome! I hope Jack and the Nosfet team will resolve these issues in production model. Sad to see so much discouragemnt in the comments aimed at the very people who are so passionate about EUCs and are willing to bring something new to this sport/hobby.
The comment section always provides insight into human nature LOL
@@ElectricUnicycles so true :)
I'm hoping it gets fixed up for production models. i want it to succeed.
Even without any action it was entertaining 😮
sliders + dust + dirt will always be a challenge, even motorbike forks leak.
interesting insights, just really shows how good wheels get in the 3rd and 4th revisions After all these upgrades and improvements.
its a shame most people don't get to see all the failures and revision upgrades that make these wheels so much better.
I commented on your first video when the linkage bent/teeth sheered and I said I wonder how this impacted the stanchion tubes, I think this follow up shows that with that angular pressure on the stanchions, it may have ruined the alignment/bushings within the stanchions possibly allowing more debris blowby and causing the stiction. Curious how they address the tubes. Still not convinced the "hardened" aluminum teeth will hold up to riders like Shibby. For large and hard drops i would take a guess that those teeth will sheer off again.
'we expected a Lynx with better suspension, but this is an S22 with more power' - YIKES.
I love my S22, but I'm hoping that future iterations of Apex don't get the S22 reputation.
I find it great that they anticipated they would be issues, at least they know what they're doing they're just doing it way too fast.
There is a reason we had to invent the rollers for s22 back then. Which Kingsong had to "steal" in order to keep the model afloat.
I was wondering how those smaller shocks and hard anodized stanchions would work out. This video had all the answers.
Sounds like the linkage could benefit from a geometry change for a longer stroke shock to bring the overall ratio lower. A 1000# spring is already uncommon so finding options to fine tune might prove difficult. A lower ratio would allow for lighter, easier to source springs and lower airshock pressures. You need a low volume airshock to get the poppy ride Matt likes.
Thanks for hitting key points like stiction and maintaining a linkage/slider suspension. Seems like Begode's stainless stanchions and brass/ graphite bushings might have the upper hand here.
I'm excited to see how they aim to solve these issues! I know that it took me a couple iterations to perfect my 150mm travel Extreme. The problem solving is always the most interesting part of a build.
Vince
I know you have experience in this field. It sounds like Nosfet is saying it is not an option to create a linkage that uses a standard MTB shock and that they must use the specific DNM shock that has been tuned to work with EUC. What is your opinion, is it possible? If it is not, why?
@trubttam it's 100% possible, although imo, getting rid of the height adjustment to simplify everything would also be a good move.
It's easy to see why the geometry needs to be changed. Add an EUC's sprung weight to the mix and suddenly shocks have to support 100% of a good amount of weight plus don't get the 20/80 split like an mtb has.
For reference, my 150mm travel Extreme uses a 85mm stroke shock and 750# spring. The leverage ratio curve is dialed in enough for me to be able to hardcore offroad it yet still allow for a 120# female to also ride it comfortably without any changes.
Anything is possible, but I would assume their answers and reasons are the way they are due to the investment already made in the linkage design and manufacturing with fixtures.
If they can't give you a solution then I'm offering my services. Whatever you need man. I'll be in LA for a week for TEF1 and AVS, would love to check it out again.
Vince
@@Euc.Fabricationif my production apex is here by then I’ll be sure to let you have some time with it 👍
I thought this unit would be innovation, but I think this needs to go back to the drawing board.
marketing and fancy (useless) stuff kills functionality. Wheels works when they are simple, Apex is not :)
great test and great video btw !!
Excellent work guys!
Very good feedback! Thank you for the video.
I think you give too much weight on the demo linkage, I.E. I think it should be considered as 3d-printed test part. Though Nosfet might have inform not to do any bigger impacts untill real linkage is installed.
Begode uses dry sliders and brass bushings with graphite. Don't like it nor do I like S22 style because of maintenance, so far Leaper have had the most durable and maintenance free solution in my opinion.
OWW all the dirt in the fairing 😆
💯
I wish suspension wheels came with strut boots, or were designed so people could add aftermarket boots of their own. Being from a dry climate, dust is an issue. And due to lack of accessibility, I can't wipe mine off easily, so all I can do is blow the dust off with air.
Could the top blocks be recessed to accommodate the screws presently limiting the slider travel at the top of the stroke?
They could but when presented with this information Nosfet responded that they will not be revising it and that everything is working as they intended. I think it's a mistake.
The same errors as begode and Inmotion did - custom shocks. It's complicated thing, you can't do it right if you don't have tons of experience, money and time. Do not invent a wheel - use already existing shocks with good reputation
Begode: made a custom shock
INMOTION: made a custom shock with fast ace for v14
As for LK and KS they all have custom shocks. LK is fastace, it’s not an off the shelf size or part, KS is the same with DNM. So to answer your statement basically no one in the current market uses a stock shock for good reason. The last edition of wheels to use complete stock shock is S22, S18.
@ ok, but Fastace actually made the same shock construction for LK as they doing for others, inner construction is the same. It was properly tested long time before they even started working with LK. That's why it works fine with minimal maintenance. That was the main point
Thanks for looking at feedback, appreciate it
@ hey Monarch, actually if you take apart an LK suspension from Sherman s vs LyNX you’ll find differences. From first edition Sherman s where it leaked to where it is now. Its a painful but must needed journey of product development. The suspension has upgrades internally throughout revisions which is why it’s so good right now.
@ okay, got it. Wish you luck with inproving your
Definitely growing pains
Next Begode Xway?
Hopefully the stiction and resonance can be solved with lubrication, we just don't have their full manual available yet to tell us exactly what to use or how and where to apply it. The stuff I tried on the sanctions worked for maybe 5-10 miles before everything started feeling stuck again, hopefully you have better luck on the road!
The stiction in the sliders may come from the bushes not the seals. On traditional fork legs the teflon bushes are emersed in oil so the bushes have very low stiction. With this design the bushes maynot be immersed in oil. Also in traditioal fork legs one side of the seal is always wetted by oil.
Awesome review! Love having Matt as a tester
Looks like I’ll be waiting a couple batches for suspension to get fixed
@@liamventer Yeah the website claims to have very low friction and be manufactured like MTB forks. The sanctions themselves look very nice but the body they slide thru is very low tech, not filled with oil, no foam rings to keep the seals hydrated...
Edit: I've been informed there is supposed to be lubricant inside the bodies but it must have leaked out.
@@trubttam Matt the prototype you have in your hands uses a low viscosity oil, rather than the medium viscosity used currently. There are no foam rings.
Personally, I wouldnt buy a batch 1 Apex. Too many issues &or potential issues. Dont blame it as its new company new wheel but still, I dont wanna deal with the hassles. Kudos to Matt for testing it
that should not be an excuse to release a subpar garbage product, especially at the 3,500 dollar sticker price.
@@Acolis No different to Begode, KingSong, Veteran or Inmotion
@@user-bp5py6bh3g your comment is not relevant to mine and i never said that it was different from begode, ks, or inmotion.
my point still stands and in actuality, inmotion is probably the best euc manufacture with the most reliable wheels on the market that dont suffer from bullshit like this, even batch 1 wheels.
I've had multiple batch 1 Inmotion wheels that have failed. Inmotion isn't much better than everyone else.
32:27 you can see on his video on the rocky parts when it's squeaking a lot the suspension barely moves, which is a shame but overengineering doesn't mean it's the best solution and it looks like it brought the worst from the s22 🙃
Thanks for overview. I don't get the point of joining the most controversial engineering decisions of euc world in a new wheel and presenting it like something revolutionary and hi tech...
Sliders on pipes, which are already proved by begode and inmotion to be a bad idea, plus leaperkim controller with bugs, yes it might be software problem but no one knows for sure, and I don't understand the reasoning for casted spikes in pedals for trail ride.. and a of course its all for a premium price.
exactly, All the problems that have occurred so far were already visible to me when the first pictures and videos appeared. I absolutely cannot understand all this hype.
I don't really want to talk about the alternatively supplied shock with steel spring, but doesn't anyone ask themselves how they want to tune it if they want to use the suspension adjustment? Have fun adjusting the sag. 🤦
Seeems just like an overly complicated lynx. The complications add no advantages and just introduce new problems. The simplest soluton that works well is usually the best.
30:30 it's not easy to check if something is rubbing because the tire will bend more during riding
Until they start using sealed sliders or boots at some point these toy like suspensions will always be sticky.
yeah typically a fork is full of oil and you are trying to keep the oil inside the fork and the dust outside of the fork using seals, Nosfet expects us to keep the "oil" on the outside of the fork where the dust is and just keep re-applying it like crazy... The seals are not really seals but something for the lubricated sanctions to slide on that's not metal
Edit: I've been informed that there should have been a lubricant of some kind inside the body but it all leaked out, and that they are still experimenting with compounds and also adding foam rings.
450 views after one hour on the net? Not bad ....
Almost doubles it In three ….
s22 with more power??? YES PLEASE
No links to his ride videos?
You have to open the Description and scroll to the bottom. The videos are also linked during the video (upper right corner of TH-cam)
Just redesign the mounts to accept FastAce hydraulic shocks instead of the stanchions, thereby making the Apex into a dual suspension EUC. The F22pro will be the first dual suspension system but there’s dozens of ways to implement this configuration, if factory designed.
That would add more weight...and why do you need dual suspension?
{tl;dr -might be uninteresting to most readers}
@@liamventerThe primary reason to have only an air shock is weight reduction but it appears that the repeated failures and increased maintenance of seals indicates there is an inherent design flaw, which has been mitigated by adding a coil spring to system to relieve some of forces on the system. The weight saved with the air shock alone is not significant when the additional weight of the mechanical sliders/stanchions is necessary, where additional coil springs inside the sliders can help relieve the pressure off the air system alone. This has been implemented with various degrees of success but is still in its primitive stages of development.
The FastAce hydraulic MTB fork suspension system does weight slightly more but is more easily integrated and has superior performance and maintenance characteristics. {This is my favorite suspension design thus far, and I recently purchased a used Sherman-S, for which I’m grateful.}
Ideally, there shouldn’t be any need for a dual suspension system based upon added complications alone. But, as designs improve, we may/ should see a decoupling** of these two separate suspensions so that they can operate independently where the total weight of the rider and EUC is suspended by the primary hydraulic system and an independent air shock is used only to suspend the rider (and not the EUC) by placing between the EUC and the foot plates/pedals. {This would be similar to having an air-ride seat in a tractor-trailer vehicle where the driver is further isolated from the system that carries the weight of the vehicle. Note: the current F22pro dual system appears to be overdetermined/constrained in that the systems are coupled together.} By separating the rider’s suspension from the EUC suspension, we decrease the shock loading on both systems and (more importantly) increase the efficacy of each system so that an increase in the total travel distances over which the shock is absorbed can be achieved. This is slightly heavier than the existing designs but can then be improved further as the decoupling of the fixed connection between pedals and battery mass allows for dynamically variable height pedals where the vertical translation of each pedal can enable the inside leg on a turn to fully compress (at one’s knee) while the outside leg is fully extended, thereby lowering the overall center of mass while increasing the potential lean angle around curves. Additional complexity of this design would further prevent many more pedal clipping incidents (off-road) by enabling the rider to raise one pedal/foot while not turning so as to provide temporary clearance on one side or the other while riding upright. This potential alone is worthy of the weight penalty because of the increase in performance and safety. There are future iterations of such a dual suspension design that will provide additional functionality but that detail isn’t necessary to consider at this time.
I do understand that the immediate reaction to a dual suspension system is the frustration of additional costs and weight but the existing designs are e exceedingly complicated yet insufficiently complex to handle the task, just as the initial iterations of MTB suspensions have been insufficient for earlier designs, as has been demonstrated in that industry sector’s maturation.
Feel free to criticize as none of us have all the answers as to the stagnation of growth of the EUC market and poor design does effect is all. {that said, I do believe that the Apex’s variable height design is a significant improvement in design and may evolve into something unexpected, so I welcome NOSFET’s contribution to the community.
@@liamventerI had written a long response to this question but it looks like it was deleted. If you’re curious about why I believe dual suspension doesn’t have much weight penalty and why I believe it’s inevitable on all off-road EUCs, I’d be happy to expound on another platform, like FB.
@grb1969 The simplest good solution almost always wins. The simple light weight, 'low friction/sticktion hydraulic low maintenance, non comple link solution used on the Lynx will be very hard to beat, but can and will be refined further.
Telescopic forks combine the slliders, springs and dampers in a simple low maintenance and highly effective solution.
KISS principle.
You think Leaperkim screwed up with this wheel on purpose 🤔🤔🤔. I wouldn't be surprised!
It wasn't leaperkim that screwd up, all components from leaperkim are not the issue. All components from apex are the issue here
@@lefotografion Most of the parts and build are by Leaperkim though, Jack did not build this wheel, leaperkim did. Jack just gave them the idea and what he wanted for the wheel which in my opinion was his mistake from the very getgo. As a matter of fact, there is so much Leaperkim in this wheel that it's basically all Leaperkim and nothing to do with jack or Nosfet
@@curtflirt2 you sure? I thought everything suspension was NOSFET Made, but that's just a rumor I heard. If it's really from leaperkim, good call on them for passing it on to NOSFET instead of damaging their own image
Some designs work..
So in conclusion: Not alone „PreProduction“ issues….but instead in complete its just a BS Suspension. At least thats my take?
There's still a lot to say for the feel of classic wheels, the no trolley APEX is just wack at this point.
What is it with EUC designers, just contract hire an MTB fork designer.
Ask yourselves, why would a company like Leaperkim given their attitudes already build a better wheel for the competition?!! 😅
this is going to turn out to be a giant piece of crap
That's maybe a bit harsh. Many EUC's have teething problems in the beginning.
2nd
Who did they think they would be able to fool by manufacturing garbage like this and putting it on the market? This is *NOT* the way for a new company to start off!
Calm down it's better to find issues and problems before production unlike the s22 where people found out the hard way through crashes, fires, and other various issues AFTER the wheel was "done"
@ What am I not understanding here? Is this EUC not on the market right now? If it is, how is it not the company’s responsibility to fix these issues before these things get bought by the consumers? What about the consumers who buy these things?
It's not. They haven't been delivered to the public yet. These are test wheels (pre-production) like a beta access for a game If you're into gaming. That means they can still fix these issues.
This EUC is not shipped yet, these are tests for the Nosfet to upgrade the design before release.
@@kutvis Ok, but only an innocent question here…Is that not the same NOSFET Apex that eWheels has on sale on their website right now for $3,499? Help me out please, I guess I’m confused.
Ooo 1st
No thanks I’ll go xway or Lynx