I've experimented with tbiii a fair bit. If you let it fully cure and come back and try to glue to it again, it doesn't adhere very well. I can usually delaminate it without much effort. If it's laminated before it fully cures, it seems to have full bonding strength as far as I can tell. It has shown about 70% bond strength when I've sanded and rebonded, which is enough for most situations I'd think. TBII bonds fully with a sanding and around 70% without. All of this depends on circumstances and how clean it is when you laminate it of course. If you heat it to about 195f and press it together, most pvas will bond very well because that's above the glass transition point for pva. Hope that's helpful.
I think I figured out the titebond 'sticks to itself' situation. Fresh titebond won't stick to cured titebond - of any kind. It's a normal thing for PVA glues. So if your first coat isn't cured (24-72 hours depending on temp and humidity) then it'll adhere. If you work as slow as I do, now you might have an issue. I've read that sanding the first coat so that it's rough helps it to stick. I do think all this navel gazing over the self-sticking thing might be good info for edges where things overlap. We might want to do the flats first and then do the two layers of the edges at the same time. I've put so much time into this issue, but I've seen so many other people not giving a damn and their build is just fine years later. Maybe we're all overthinking it. lol!
I've been sailing a dory with bottom treated with fiberglass cloth and TBIII for the past 6 years with no problems, works great, just be aware of floating the glass during application which is easier to do than with epoxies.
Tightbond 2 and 3 are roughly the same in terms of their hold, however in terms of the surface, once T3 has totally cured, (3-6 days) the surface is far more tight than that of T2, and thus is going to be less able to let bonds of any subsequent layer of glue penetrate or hold as well. If you let the surface fast cure to "greenset" (less than 4 hours) then you should be able to get a better hold from the next layer.
If I had to guess, yo only rolled the canvas into the glue spread on the wood. If you place the glue into the canvas saturating it and the wood, then mashed them into one another, the hold will not come up AT ALL, the glue will set, and you will not be able to pull it out. The canvas is not as strong as the glue, also, you only let the glue set up for less than a couple hours there- best to let it cure for two days.
I went thru some testing with using Titebond 3 and painters cloth and found it to be promising to seal my boat hull. So I went ahead and did one layer of glue, then the painters cloth stuck to it. Then three coats of glue over the cloth. Let it dry for several days which turned out rock hard!. Then painted it with two coats of floor paint to protect the hull. It did work for several weeks out on the lake...until I noticed the plywood swelling up in a few places. I see what I did wrong. I should have used an iron or some kind of tool so tuck the canvas in the 90 degree inner corners where i had 1" x 2" for runners under the boat (to guide it thru the water) The canvas had some air pockets that got filled with water, so I needed to do some repairs. Guess I need to take my time when doing my next boat hull!
UPDATE: I decided to try a different idea to seal my wooden hull. The Titebond and cloth idea looked promising but did not work out so well in the long run (for me anyway) so I found another product that did what it promised to do (seal my hull for good) and it did just that. It is a two part epoxy from GOOP that's called Seal It. I has Kevlar and Ceramic in it and has 5 star reviews so I tried it with fantastic results! It dries hard as a rock and can withstand abrasions like rocks and running up on the beach. It took a few days to completely set up. After spending all summer (atleast four days a week) on the water and many hull inspections, the product is a success! No leaks, scares or cracks and it looks good as the day I applied it. So when all said and done, for about the same money as the three coats of glue and cloth, the Coat It is by far a better way to go and less work.
No I was in a hurry and found some spots where I did not seal off the area between the wood and the canvas glue. It was my fault. That Titebond III did not fail or let any water thru. It can be under water all day without any degridation what so ever so it truly is waterproof. If applied properly it does work on boats and camper tops just fine. Just don't be in a hurry when you apply it.
I am about to start building a pmf camper. I will use wood filler and sand it with 80 grit lightly after it sets. Its made for wood and the wood glue. let me know if you use bondo how that turns out. testing is the best way.
I've experimented with tbiii a fair bit. If you let it fully cure and come back and try to glue to it again, it doesn't adhere very well. I can usually delaminate it without much effort. If it's laminated before it fully cures, it seems to have full bonding strength as far as I can tell. It has shown about 70% bond strength when I've sanded and rebonded, which is enough for most situations I'd think. TBII bonds fully with a sanding and around 70% without. All of this depends on circumstances and how clean it is when you laminate it of course. If you heat it to about 195f and press it together, most pvas will bond very well because that's above the glass transition point for pva. Hope that's helpful.
TB2 will soften up if not just melt with a wipe of denatured alcohol, so if you need reapply a year later, that is what to do.
I think I figured out the titebond 'sticks to itself' situation. Fresh titebond won't stick to cured titebond - of any kind. It's a normal thing for PVA glues. So if your first coat isn't cured (24-72 hours depending on temp and humidity) then it'll adhere. If you work as slow as I do, now you might have an issue.
I've read that sanding the first coat so that it's rough helps it to stick.
I do think all this navel gazing over the self-sticking thing might be good info for edges where things overlap. We might want to do the flats first and then do the two layers of the edges at the same time.
I've put so much time into this issue, but I've seen so many other people not giving a damn and their build is just fine years later. Maybe we're all overthinking it. lol!
I've been sailing a dory with bottom treated with fiberglass cloth and TBIII for the past 6 years with no problems, works great, just be aware of floating the glass during application which is easier to do than with epoxies.
Tightbond 2 and 3 are roughly the same in terms of their hold, however in terms of the surface, once T3 has totally cured, (3-6 days) the surface is far more tight than that of T2, and thus is going to be less able to let bonds of any subsequent layer of glue penetrate or hold as well. If you let the surface fast cure to "greenset" (less than 4 hours) then you should be able to get a better hold from the next layer.
I cringed when I saw your wrist down range of the chisel.
I could feel the pain
Me too
Same here!
it didnt look like he was pushing the chisel though, he was just pressing it on the join in the corner and then twisting.
Same
I’m building an offroad camper and I’ve done the entire outside walls with canvas and titebond 3. Still working on it though. Seems to hold up fine.
you can see the glue is breaking away from your canvas not the base surface - thanks for this!
If I had to guess, yo only rolled the canvas into the glue spread on the wood. If you place the glue into the canvas saturating it and the wood, then mashed them into one another, the hold will not come up AT ALL, the glue will set, and you will not be able to pull it out. The canvas is not as strong as the glue, also, you only let the glue set up for less than a couple hours there- best to let it cure for two days.
I went thru some testing with using Titebond 3 and painters cloth and found it to be promising to seal my boat hull. So I went ahead and did one layer of glue, then the painters cloth stuck to it. Then three coats of glue over the cloth. Let it dry for several days which turned out rock hard!. Then painted it with two coats of floor paint to protect the hull. It did work for several weeks out on the lake...until I noticed the plywood swelling up in a few places. I see what I did wrong. I should have used an iron or some kind of tool so tuck the canvas in the 90 degree inner corners where i had 1" x 2" for runners under the boat (to guide it thru the water) The canvas had some air pockets that got filled with water, so I needed to do some repairs. Guess I need to take my time when doing my next boat hull!
UPDATE: I decided to try a different idea to seal my wooden hull. The Titebond and cloth idea looked promising but did not work out so well in the long run (for me anyway) so I found another product that did what it promised to do (seal my hull for good) and it did just that. It is a two part epoxy from GOOP that's called Seal It. I has Kevlar and Ceramic in it and has 5 star reviews so I tried it with fantastic results! It dries hard as a rock and can withstand abrasions like rocks and running up on the beach. It took a few days to completely set up. After spending all summer (atleast four days a week) on the water and many hull inspections, the product is a success! No leaks, scares or cracks and it looks good as the day I applied it. So when all said and done, for about the same money as the three coats of glue and cloth, the Coat It is by far a better way to go and less work.
On amazons description it says that it the glue should not be submersed. Thats where I would think the waterproof paint comes in.
No I was in a hurry and found some spots where I did not seal off the area between the wood and the canvas glue. It was my fault. That Titebond III did not fail or let any water thru. It can be under water all day without any degridation what so ever so it truly is waterproof. If applied properly it does work on boats and camper tops just fine. Just don't be in a hurry when you apply it.
might want to submerge them both in water for a couple days after cured to see which holds up. Im going to primer and paint mine for weather.
No, you're not.
Thanks, was looking for some info before covering a foam boat.
great video . am about to do a test with this . any updates ,many thanks.
Have you tried the same test with Titebond 2. If so pleas provide a link. Thanks
About to pmf my camper, but can't find any testing of pmf over bondo or wood filler. My plywood needs some filling. Any thoughts?
I am about to start building a pmf camper. I will use wood filler and sand it with 80 grit lightly after it sets. Its made for wood and the wood glue. let me know if you use bondo how that turns out. testing is the best way.
@1:50 im cringing! Way to shove a perfectly dull chisel into your hand. I learned that lesson at age 4!
What about Fiberglass cloth, canvas are cotton fiber will degrade over sunshine
It needs to be painted with latex paint fo protection and waterproofing