Very informative video. I started solar photography with the DayStar Chromosphere Quark with a built-in 4.2x barlow a couple of years ago with nice results, and I just recently upgraded to the Lunt LS100MT and use the ZWO 432mm to get a complete solar disc shot. I also have the ZWO 462mm with a smaller FOV and use it with a 2x barlow to zoom in on the active regions and prominences. Solar photography is amazing.
Well done - I wish there were more in-depth problem solving videos like this out there in TH-cam land. I love that you went through the whole process of describing the problem all the way through trying to figure out what the issue was, and then had the solution at the end. Very nicely done!
given that the field of view (imaging) calculator at astronomy tools shows it'll do the entire solar disc, the first thing I would have done is use a computer to image and bypass any other device. K.I.S.S. Poor product design from ZWO.
Great geat video. I just recently bought and just received my Lunt40mm and SW Solar Quest Mount. You saved me from a lot of headaches. Evetything you explained was in very smart yet simple terms for myself to understand. I have been in AP for several months now and you gave the best explanation that I can find on sampling along with putting the pieces together for imaging with the Lunt 40mm. I currently use the asiair for dso with my telescopes. I will now learn more about asistudio or Sharpcap for imaging the upcoming Eclispe. I have the asi290mm (discontinued) and asi120mm that I use for guiding. I am now going to purchase the asi178mm and get this going once the clouds and rain go away.
Some ASI178mm cameras produce a pattern similar to that of a bayer array when imaging in H-Alpha. This doesn't seem to affect all samples of that sensor. I have also seen reports that the ASI183 also can be affected in the same way, interestingly both sensors share a 2.4 μm pixel size. The ASI290 with a pixel size of 2.9 μm doesn't seem to be affected. Imaging in sub arcsecond per pixel amplifies the issue for many.
@@astrobortle5 Have you tried pre-processing blur function in Autostakker advance tab (it's under experimental features in the advanced tab) Some have reported some success with it, others it didn't. Doesn't effect your original data so you really have nothing but time to lose in trying
I get that Pattern with my ZWO 432MM (pixels are way too large for my Lunt 40mm sadly besides for doing total solar disc) but with the ZWO 178 it’s just fine.
I’ve enjoyed using Lunt Pressure-Tuned 60, 80, & 100 mm H-alpha scopes. The 60 was so light, I kept it on a compact ALT-AZ mount and used it every sunny day. The 80 was a step up in image quality (the 60 was no slouch) but I used it less often. The 100 again provided better views, but was used infrequently. I regrettably sold all of those scopes and am using a Coronado 90 mm H-alpha filter on Takahashi Sky 90 scope + a blocking filter. The Sky 90 objective needs collimation, something that never was a concern with my Lunt scopes.
@@astrobortle5 The best scope is the one you use the most. When I was looking at Solar H-alpha scopes years ago, I looked through all that were available. I felt I couldn’t go wrong with any of them, but the Lunt PT 60 (with the FeatherTouch focuser upgrade) seemed to be the perfect “daily driver”. To me, the sweet spot was the Lunt PT 80. I used it less often, but the additional resolution was appreciated. Long before getting Lunt PT scopes, I had purchased a DayStar T-Scanner and used it on one of my refractors. About a decade later, the unit corroded and DayStar gave me a full credit towards a 0.5 Å Quantum PE, which they offered at a good sale price to boot. I would have been crazy to nit get it. When used with a Baader D-ERF energy rejection filter in front of the objective, it provides impressive views.
I use a rig I engineered (retired engineer) to put an eyepiece on my Canon DSLR just like a phone. I use a Baader 18mm Orthoscopic & for closeups I use a 10mm Ortho. I have a 50mm Lunt f/7 and for the Eclipse I'm using my 102mm triplet and Thousand Oaks Solar film, stuff is excellent. I will have the Lunt and 102mm on my iOptron AZ Pro for the eclipse. I will video the whole eclipse with the ES 102mm Carbon Fiber triplet with the Canon. I'll use my son's phone for 30 second exposures up to totality and after, but I'm hearing the H-alpha won't pick up the totality. I'll still video it and if we can't see it the 102 will. I'll be watching with 7x50mm binoculars with Solar film while checking the scopes. I tested my timing twice because it is not an EQ mount I have to do short exposures, but it should make for a nice time lapse effect per the tests. I made my motel reservations in December and the place I'm staying isn't charging very much extra, but are booked up just outside of Fredericksburg TX. Other hotels are price gouging like it was the Super Bowl. It's ridiculous what some are charging for a $99 room, like $400-$500. I'm sure the campgrounds are doing it too. I do not think anyone is paying $800+ a night and I saw higher than that. I have a feeling some unprepared people with be sleeping in their cars.
Thank you so much for this, I was just about to order a 220 camera for my Lunt solar telescope. Further I was going to use it with my ASIAir Mini. Looks like I'll get a 178 and stick with Sharp Cap on my Laptop. Thank you again for this very useful information.
178 is not the best CCD choice for solar in Ha unfortunately.. I have Lunt 60 single stack and I can confirm from my own experience the noise pattern is visible on a lot of stacked final images. Even ZWO on their website mentioning the issue, but there is no to much recent information you can find online about it. It is hit and miss with my setup and I am trying to work out the process /settings best for this camera to eliminate noise, but not enough Sun here in the UK at the moment so will take a while. ASI290 is fast but sensor not big enough to cover full disc , ASI174 pixel size is more suitable for larger aperture telescopes and would work with Barlow to properly sample and ASI183 is reported to have similar issue as ASI178. Ha camera choice is a minefield ha ha ha
I agree, it is a minefield Bart! I've enjoyed the 178 over my previous cameras, but I do see the noise in those images sometimes as well. Thanks again for your insight.
Thanks for the extra info Bart. I have an extra problem in that my LS50 THa was one of the early models, which suffered from a focusing issue. Basically you can only use certain slim line cameras such as the ASI minis or Altair GPCAMs or similar otherwise the sensor is too far away to achieve focus. Lunt were looking into this but I didn't hear anything more about it. To be honest my GPCAM 290M works ok, it's just annoying that it gives a clipped image. I also live in the UK and know exactly what you mean with the weather. I currently live in temporary accommodation that is surrounded by trees so I can't even see the sun on clear days anyway, should be ok next month.
@@user-lt9py2pu6u I wasn’t aware of this issue - is it helical focuser or standard one ? Can you modify it so it works with other cameras? Thankfully location is not a huge issue with ha as there is no need to travel remote no light polluted areas at night , only climbing on the tree in your case or walking to nearby open air car park in my :) I just missed asi1600 pro on eBay gone for £550 - but most likely leave my 178 for full disc and buy 174 for closeups - should work just fine with 2-3 Barlow on my 60 sampling as designed
@@bartsali Mine is fitted with a helical focuser which can apparently be replaced with a conventional style one that costs around £450. But that wouldn't solve the issue. As I remember it the problem was due to the objective lenses that Lunt intended to use not being available for some reason, the replacements had a slightly different focal length, which was fine for visual use ( and taking images through the eyepiece with a smart phone), but meant that most of the astronomy cameras available at the time wouldn't work ( this was mentioned in some of the reviews at the time ) as the sensors were too far back from the focal point. This was nine years ago. I don't think the versions available today have this problem, I don't think it was ever a problem for sizes 60 and above. As my scope still does what I want it to, I will not be replacing it anytime soon. The only thing I have had to replace is the small blue filter at the inlet to the energy rejection filter ( this does degrade with age, Lunt have a video on their website about this) Replacements cost around £20 in the UK. I think I will probably have to replace the 'O' rings in the pressure tuner shortly as well.
I really learn a lot from your videos. I have the daystar 60mm scout HA telescope and just recently got a ZWO ASI 432 MM camera from Highpoint Scientific. You use your laptop to get the video or stills from the camera directly. Do you use the ASI studio software? Or another package? Thank you once again for your content and your sharing.🎉
I now use my laptop with Firecapture software to take videos using the lucky imaging technique for my solar images. I could use my ASIAIR, however if I wanted a high video frame rate, or whole image of the Sun, it wont work due to hardware limitations with the ASIAIR. Good question!
I have read various complaints about the Lunt telescope mainly to do with those nuts that you turn around the front lens which I think have something to do with tuning it and i don't know if it is a problem with the telescope or if the users don't know quite what they are doing?I am a Bortle 6 stargazer providing i stay at home but I camped out on a mountain top at 673 metres up on Monday/Tuesday at Bortle 3 and amazing views of the skies.I even caught M51 in my 8x25 Opticron monocular at an amazing 32 million light years away but the real gem was the claws of Scorpius in the morning sky at 0500 although due to the latitude I never seen the Sting as it's on the horizon.
I haven't had any issues with the Lunt telescope so far. Instructions could always be better in most cases when it comes to astronomy equipment. Customer service over the phone had been great.
That would make me spit blood. I have a 462mc for moon and planets and so the issue doesn't hurt me much But raw framerate limitations on the AApro do, and that was a post purchase disappointment. I would have made the purchase anyway if I had been forewarned, and my user experience wouldn't then have included a feeling of being taken for a sucker. I have noticed that ZWO tend to be shy about limitations that affect particular niche's, and I wish they would learn how bad that is for their reputation and business. Right now they are promoting guiding over wifi, with their neat new 2600air product, but I tried that with a 2600 and an AA+ and yes, it can, but it sucks compared with wired guiding. It seems like the same attitude: Claim is valid on paper, so let the customer commit to purchase, and experience the disappointment later.😪
I agree. Are we improving our new products with better capabilities and ease of use, or just putting out mediocre products that look shinier with the tiniest improvements?
I'm learning about astrophotography, it's possible to solve the issue if you add spacers to get the proper back focus (12.5 - 17.5 mm) for that camera?
The back focus wasn't the issue but the hardware on the ASI wifi controller. I added spacers in my problem solving on this issue and that never fixed the problem.
A focal reducer would increase the FOV in the ROI forced on him by the ASIAIR but at a the cost of resolution. As the video goes on to show the best option is using another capture program that also for full sensor capture and higher frames rates as well .
Hi Eric, I have the Lunt50T DOUBLE STACK (w added tilt tuned etalon in front) but the FOV I get imaging the sun corresponds more like about 450 mm (not 350). I am imaging w sharpcap and asi290 and getting the entire frame, so it is not an issue like the asiAir video limitation. Don't see where the extra magnification or blocking comes from unless it is the diagonal. Why do they have different size image ports in it ? Very confusing. Can send an image if useful. Well done above. Les
Lunt does have some recommendations on their blocking filters for their different solar telescopes and imaging setups . I would call them up with your concerns. They are really helpful and I've talked to them a few times. Hope you get some great images soon. Let me know what you think of the 50T. I'd love to upgrade on day.
I purchased my 1.25 Feather Touch Focuser as part of the upgrade option on my Lunt telescope through High Point Scientific. www.highpointscientific.com/?rfsn=7755489.66ed8e
It looks like the sensor is a different size and the pixel size is smaller at 2.0. I can't find any reviews yet on it. I got a Televue powermate on order to see if I can get some better closeups.
I think it was limited by the processing power of the raspberry pi or whatever chip they used. There needs to be a disclaimer about the limitation on the product specifications.
Great hummingbird shot at 2.35!!!
That was perfect timing for my video!
they're suckers for anything red!
@@astrobortle5I've just done a short on different prominences I took with my lunt40 if you're interested.
Very informative video. I started solar photography with the DayStar Chromosphere Quark with a built-in 4.2x barlow a couple of years ago with nice results, and I just recently upgraded to the Lunt LS100MT and use the ZWO 432mm to get a complete solar disc shot. I also have the ZWO 462mm with a smaller FOV and use it with a 2x barlow to zoom in on the active regions and prominences. Solar photography is amazing.
Well done - I wish there were more in-depth problem solving videos like this out there in TH-cam land. I love that you went through the whole process of describing the problem all the way through trying to figure out what the issue was, and then had the solution at the end. Very nicely done!
Thanks! I think I made every error, so I was able to describe them all!
given that the field of view (imaging) calculator at astronomy tools shows it'll do the entire solar disc, the first thing I would have done is use a computer to image and bypass any other device. K.I.S.S. Poor product design from ZWO.
Great geat video. I just recently bought and just received my Lunt40mm and SW Solar Quest Mount. You saved me from a lot of headaches. Evetything you explained was in very smart yet simple terms for myself to understand. I have been in AP for several months now and you gave the best explanation that I can find on sampling along with putting the pieces together for imaging with the Lunt 40mm.
I currently use the asiair for dso with my telescopes. I will now learn more about asistudio or Sharpcap for imaging the upcoming Eclispe. I have the asi290mm (discontinued) and asi120mm that I use for guiding. I am now going to purchase the asi178mm and get this going once the clouds and rain go away.
Awesome! I hope you enjoy the great views of the Sun with your new equipment. The Lunt 40mm really is a workhorse and I am really happy with it.
Some ASI178mm cameras produce a pattern similar to that of a bayer array when imaging in H-Alpha. This doesn't seem to affect all samples of that sensor. I have also seen reports that the ASI183 also can be affected in the same way, interestingly both sensors share a 2.4 μm pixel size. The ASI290 with a pixel size of 2.9 μm doesn't seem to be affected. Imaging in sub arcsecond per pixel amplifies the issue for many.
I get the pattern most of the time. Trying to figure out a way to have it permenantly removed.
@@astrobortle5 Have you tried pre-processing blur function in Autostakker advance tab (it's under experimental features in the advanced tab) Some have reported some success with it, others it didn't. Doesn't effect your original data so you really have nothing but time to lose in trying
I get that Pattern with my ZWO 432MM (pixels are way too large for my Lunt 40mm sadly besides for doing total solar disc) but with the ZWO 178 it’s just fine.
I do that too when something is too big 🤣
very helpful, thank you!
I’ve enjoyed using Lunt Pressure-Tuned 60, 80, & 100 mm H-alpha scopes. The 60 was so light, I kept it on a compact ALT-AZ mount and used it every sunny day. The 80 was a step up in image quality (the 60 was no slouch) but I used it less often. The 100 again provided better views, but was used infrequently.
I regrettably sold all of those scopes and am using a Coronado 90 mm H-alpha filter on Takahashi Sky 90 scope + a blocking filter. The Sky 90 objective needs collimation, something that never was a concern with my Lunt scopes.
That is good to know! Thanks for sharing.. I might consider upgrading one day
@@astrobortle5 The best scope is the one you use the most.
When I was looking at Solar H-alpha scopes years ago, I looked through all that were available. I felt I couldn’t go wrong with any of them, but the Lunt PT 60 (with the FeatherTouch focuser upgrade) seemed to be the perfect “daily driver”. To me, the sweet spot was the Lunt PT 80. I used it less often, but the additional resolution was appreciated.
Long before getting Lunt PT scopes, I had purchased a DayStar T-Scanner and used it on one of my refractors. About a decade later, the unit corroded and DayStar gave me a full credit towards a 0.5 Å Quantum PE, which they offered at a good sale price to boot. I would have been crazy to nit get it. When used with a Baader D-ERF energy rejection filter in front of the objective, it provides impressive views.
This was very helpful!
Thanks!
I use a rig I engineered (retired engineer) to put an eyepiece on my Canon DSLR just like a phone. I use a Baader 18mm Orthoscopic & for closeups I use a 10mm Ortho. I have a 50mm Lunt f/7 and for the Eclipse I'm using my 102mm triplet and Thousand Oaks Solar film, stuff is excellent. I will have the Lunt and 102mm on my iOptron AZ Pro for the eclipse. I will video the whole eclipse with the ES 102mm Carbon Fiber triplet with the Canon. I'll use my son's phone for 30 second exposures up to totality and after, but I'm hearing the H-alpha won't pick up the totality. I'll still video it and if we can't see it the 102 will. I'll be watching with 7x50mm binoculars with Solar film while checking the scopes. I tested my timing twice because it is not an EQ mount I have to do short exposures, but it should make for a nice time lapse effect per the tests.
I made my motel reservations in December and the place I'm staying isn't charging very much extra, but are booked up just outside of Fredericksburg TX. Other hotels are price gouging like it was the Super Bowl. It's ridiculous what some are charging for a $99 room, like $400-$500. I'm sure the campgrounds are doing it too. I do not think anyone is paying $800+ a night and I saw higher than that. I have a feeling some unprepared people with be sleeping in their cars.
I've changed my travel plan now three times because of the wx forecast.. Arg
Thank you so much for this, I was just about to order a 220 camera for my Lunt solar telescope. Further I was going to use it with my ASIAir Mini. Looks like I'll get a 178 and stick with Sharp Cap on my Laptop. Thank you again for this very useful information.
178 is not the best CCD choice for solar in Ha unfortunately.. I have Lunt 60 single stack and I can confirm from my own experience the noise pattern is visible on a lot of stacked final images. Even ZWO on their website mentioning the issue, but there is no to much recent information you can find online about it. It is hit and miss with my setup and I am trying to work out the process /settings best for this camera to eliminate noise, but not enough Sun here in the UK at the moment so will take a while. ASI290 is fast but sensor not big enough to cover full disc , ASI174 pixel size is more suitable for larger aperture telescopes and would work with Barlow to properly sample and ASI183 is reported to have similar issue as ASI178. Ha camera choice is a minefield ha ha ha
I agree, it is a minefield Bart! I've enjoyed the 178 over my previous cameras, but I do see the noise in those images sometimes as well. Thanks again for your insight.
Thanks for the extra info Bart. I have an extra problem in that my LS50 THa was one of the early models, which suffered from a focusing issue. Basically you can only use certain slim line cameras such as the ASI minis or Altair GPCAMs or similar otherwise the sensor is too far away to achieve focus. Lunt were looking into this but I didn't hear anything more about it. To be honest my GPCAM 290M works ok, it's just annoying that it gives a clipped image. I also live in the UK and know exactly what you mean with the weather. I currently live in temporary accommodation that is surrounded by trees so I can't even see the sun on clear days anyway, should be ok next month.
@@user-lt9py2pu6u I wasn’t aware of this issue - is it helical focuser or standard one ? Can you modify it so it works with other cameras? Thankfully location is not a huge issue with ha as there is no need to travel remote no light polluted areas at night , only climbing on the tree in your case or walking to nearby open air car park in my :) I just missed asi1600 pro on eBay gone for £550 - but most likely leave my 178 for full disc and buy 174 for closeups - should work just fine with 2-3 Barlow on my 60 sampling as designed
@@bartsali Mine is fitted with a helical focuser which can apparently be replaced with a conventional style one that costs around £450. But that wouldn't solve the issue. As I remember it the problem was due to the objective lenses that Lunt intended to use not being available for some reason, the replacements had a slightly different focal length, which was fine for visual use ( and taking images through the eyepiece with a smart phone), but meant that most of the astronomy cameras available at the time wouldn't work ( this was mentioned in some of the reviews at the time ) as the sensors were too far back from the focal point. This was nine years ago. I don't think the versions available today have this problem, I don't think it was ever a problem for sizes 60 and above. As my scope still does what I want it to, I will not be replacing it anytime soon. The only thing I have had to replace is the small blue filter at the inlet to the energy rejection filter ( this does degrade with age, Lunt have a video on their website about this) Replacements cost around £20 in the UK. I think I will probably have to replace the 'O' rings in the pressure tuner shortly as well.
I really learn a lot from your videos. I have the daystar 60mm scout HA telescope and just recently got a ZWO ASI 432 MM camera from Highpoint Scientific. You use your laptop to get the video or stills from the camera directly. Do you use the ASI studio software? Or another package? Thank you once again for your content and your sharing.🎉
I now use my laptop with Firecapture software to take videos using the lucky imaging technique for my solar images.
I could use my ASIAIR, however if I wanted a high video frame rate, or whole image of the Sun, it wont work due to hardware limitations with the ASIAIR.
Good question!
I have read various complaints about the Lunt telescope mainly to do with those nuts that you turn around the front lens which I think have something to do with tuning it and i don't know if it is a problem with the telescope or if the users don't know quite what they are doing?I am a Bortle 6 stargazer providing i stay at home but I camped out on a mountain top at 673 metres up on Monday/Tuesday at Bortle 3 and amazing views of the skies.I even caught M51 in my 8x25 Opticron monocular at an amazing 32 million light years away but the real gem was the claws of Scorpius in the morning sky at 0500 although due to the latitude I never seen the Sting as it's on the horizon.
I haven't had any issues with the Lunt telescope so far. Instructions could always be better in most cases when it comes to astronomy equipment.
Customer service over the phone had been great.
Great video thank you. Are you saying that even the full size ASIAIR is limited to 1080P?
Yes. I checked with ZWO and they confirmed it. It is a hardware limitation with their current ASIAIR devices.
That would make me spit blood. I have a 462mc for moon and planets and so the issue doesn't hurt me much But raw framerate limitations on the AApro do, and that was a post purchase disappointment. I would have made the purchase anyway if I had been forewarned, and my user experience wouldn't then have included a feeling of being taken for a sucker. I have noticed that ZWO tend to be shy about limitations that affect particular niche's, and I wish they would learn how bad that is for their reputation and business. Right now they are promoting guiding over wifi, with their neat new 2600air product, but I tried that with a 2600 and an AA+ and yes, it can, but it sucks compared with wired guiding. It seems like the same attitude: Claim is valid on paper, so let the customer commit to purchase, and experience the disappointment later.😪
I agree. Are we improving our new products with better capabilities and ease of use, or just putting out mediocre products that look shinier with the tiniest improvements?
I'm learning about astrophotography, it's possible to solve the issue if you add spacers to get the proper back focus (12.5 - 17.5 mm) for that camera?
The back focus wasn't the issue but the hardware on the ASI wifi controller. I added spacers in my problem solving on this issue and that never fixed the problem.
A focal reducer would increase the FOV in the ROI forced on him by the ASIAIR but at a the cost of resolution. As the video goes on to show the best option is using another capture program that also for full sensor capture and higher frames rates as well .
Hi Eric, I have the Lunt50T DOUBLE STACK (w added tilt tuned etalon in front) but the FOV I get imaging the sun corresponds more like about 450 mm (not 350). I am imaging w sharpcap and asi290 and getting the entire frame, so it is not an issue like the asiAir video limitation. Don't see where the extra magnification or blocking comes from unless it is the diagonal. Why do they have different size image ports in it ? Very confusing. Can send an image if useful. Well done above. Les
Lunt does have some recommendations on their blocking filters for their different solar telescopes and imaging setups . I would call them up with your concerns. They are really helpful and I've talked to them a few times.
Hope you get some great images soon. Let me know what you think of the 50T. I'd love to upgrade on day.
Have you tried solar imaging with the ZWO 183 camera??
I have the ZWO 183MC PRO Color Camera. I've never tried it because it is a color camera. Maybe I'll experiment with it one day.
Question. How much is your focuser and where did you buy it from ? Thanks
I purchased my 1.25 Feather Touch Focuser as part of the upgrade option on my Lunt telescope through High Point Scientific.
www.highpointscientific.com/?rfsn=7755489.66ed8e
@@astrobortle5 thank you. All the best
Does this only affect the air mini or also the air plus ?
It unfortunately affects all three ASI wifi controller products, pro, plus, and mini.
Imaging looks great but how about visually? Is yours double stacked?
It is single stacked. Visually, it looks great. Sun is a red color through the eyepieces.
Sad
Did you see the total solar eclipse 🤔
I sure did! Great experience - I made a one minute video on it here. How about you?
th-cam.com/video/38sdY67tO-4/w-d-xo.html
The ASI178MM seems to have been discontinued. Do you have any thoughts on a replacement options?
I'll have to do some research.. Thanks for the heads up.
Looks like ZWO has upgraded this camera to the ASI678MM.
www.zwoastro.com/product/zwo-asi678mc/
@@astrobortle5 Thanks I'll check out what the differences are. You certainly got good results with the ASI178MM. We've been looking at the ASI533MM.
It looks like the sensor is a different size and the pixel size is smaller at 2.0. I can't find any reviews yet on it.
I got a Televue powermate on order to see if I can get some better closeups.
@@astrobortle5 Thanks. I'll keep studying.
C'mon is nothing but sensor size.
1080p is so last decade when it comes to video. For the prices of their hardware this is disappointing.
With the solar eclipse coming up, they could have updated their equipment for Solar imaging and made a lot of money.
that's a major design flaw from ZWO...brain fart...not good product design.
I think it was limited by the processing power of the raspberry pi or whatever chip they used. There needs to be a disclaimer about the limitation on the product specifications.
@@astrobortle5 perhaps...still very poor from ZWO.