I have an S50, a Dwarf, and over $10K in conventional astrophotography equipment. There is no question that the overall image quality is better with the full rig. But, I enjoy using the two smart scopes. Setting up a heavy EQ mount, leveling, balancing, polar alignment, calibrating the guiding, focusing, etc, is a pain. I won't even try it on a weeknight when I have to work the next day. The S50 can be set up easily in a few minutes. It allows me to image on nights when I otherwise cannot. Stacking and processing the images yourself yields much better images than the app. I think $500 is a bargain for this. My EQ mount alone costs more than 3x as much. When I am able to use my full rig, it produces great images. But, I find myself using the smart telescopes more often, and it allows more overall time to enjoy the hobby.
This is 100% where they shine, ok quality with super convenience. I’ve just got a 5” newt on a cheap EQ mount but I won’t bother packing it up and going out on a weeknight, and if the weather is questionable at all on a weekend I won’t bother either. Lots of setup, packing, aligning, maybe collimating, just to not even get a clear sky. When all I have to do is get out of the car and get set up in 1 minute, the lower time investment would mean I’d spend lots more time out there in the field than I do now.
Can only comment on the Seestar, but for £500 it punches well above its weight, and you are hardly paying a premium, it’s hard to put together anything comparable yourself for that price. Sure, it doesn’t perform as well as my 90mm guided triplet refractor/cooled camera on a heavy EQ mount, but it has the huge advantage that I can use it immediately when there is a break in the clouds. My big rig has been sat in the garage for months due to awful weather. I had a total window of about 1 hour clear sky this week spread over two nights, managed to image PonsBrooks with the Seestar whereas I would still have been setting up my big rig when the clouds returned. At the £500 price point I think they are a worthwhile introduction to the hobby for newbies, and for more seasoned practitioners a good way of doing some imaging when it just isn’t practical to set up a “proper” rig. The old adage “ your best scope is the one you use the most” rings true here. No reason not to early adopt at the £500 price point. Now the more expensive smart scopes, that’s a different story…
Really glad that I've held off buying any of these smart telescopes as the quality of the DSO images has proved to leave much to be desired and instead I'm slowly adding to my savings ready for a future date when I might buy a future but better model as Ed hopes may come out. I like the usefulness of the SeeStar etc for imaging the Moon and Sun in moments of opportunity but am fortuate to have already put to use a repurposed old Alt-Az mount (SkyWatcher Merlin from around 2012), spare ASI178MC and RedCat for solar and lunar imaging that more than matches the quality of the SeeStar and which too can be set up at a moment's notice. For me £500 is the best part of a year's savings in the hobby so it's not to be spent on a snap decision. To my way of thinking all the frenetic early adopters may encourage ZWO and others to make improved models down the line.
@@stevenickolls8016you are right, the Seestar isn’t as good as a “ proper” rig in terms of image quality, but if you stack and process the subs yourself, rather than take the final output from the device, you can get some pretty pleasing results. And as I said, being up and running literally within a few minutes is something no traditional rig can match unless you are fortunate enough to have a permanent observatory. If I had to rely on my traditional rig I’d have no images at all from the past few months.
I have ummed and arred about splashing out on a 'proper' rig but you're spot on. The cost, effort and time spent learning will not reward me fast enough. The SeeStar does that for me. For 500 quid, its a no brainer.
I've been an astronomer for nearly 60 years. I love my 12" Geoptik Dob with the Nexus DSC. I don't have the patience & inclination to set up a full A/P rig, and of course there's the price! I can see a great market for people like me, that love their visual work, but would like to dabble in A/P. The Seestar and/or Dwarf 11 are perfect for this. Beginners in astronomy would also find these scopes as a great incentive. Too many newbies buy scopes, attempt to use them to find any object. And apart from the Moon, they fail. The scope goes into a wardrobe and a budding astronomer goes to waste. At least these smart scopes are a lot more user friendly, and will yield results on the first night/day. In conclusion, Ed is correct in his thoughts, but I feel a little harsh in his conclusion. My two cents
I think they will equally land into people's wardrobe once their wife will tell them that google image gets better result with less efforts. And since they haven't made any effort and invested any time in their newfind consumer's hobby, they will end up agreeing. To me, for newbies, this is just some disposable toys. For your use, I agree it's probably great. But the bigger picture, I have to agree with Ed : it's just more ejunk
Ed standing in room full of expensive gear saying Seestar is no good is like Jay Leno standing in his garage and saying my car is crap and I should wait until I can afford a few hundred grand.
That's completely wrong. The points he raises are just facts, not opinion influenced by high tech stuff. You just can't get the performance out of a small refractor that you can get out of a larger cheap reflector.
@@testboga5991Yeah I mean just because it can’t perform as well as a bigger scope is no reason not to buy one. At $500 I could make incredible photos when I can’t even afford a decent camera for my reflector for the same price. Then I’d need a decent EQ mount better than my EQ-2. That’s the cost of 4 Seestar S50s. Sure that would do better but what’s the point? I’d have way way more fun with a $500 smart scope than I would with a $3000 traditional imaging setup. I still keep my reflector around for observing planets and for higher magnification views of the sun.
Thank you for the review. I have a Seestar and have some observations to share as a total amateur. 1. The battery is very user replaceable. It sits behind a door on the bottom held closed with a screw. 2. The Seestar is a bit hit and miss with a few things, but for the most part there is no need to adjust the level any more as it has an "auto level / Horizon function". But it does need to be able to have a good view of the sky as it uses several stars, compass, gyroscopes, view of the horizon to get level. Works well most of the time. 3. With it zooming in too far. There is a mosaic mode in the pipeline, so it should be able to stich together large objects, increasing the relative resolution/detail etc. 4. The Seestar is also good for watching wildlife remotely. No need to be cold/hot in a hide when in theory you can sit in your house, car, motorhome etc whilst capturing video or stills live onto a screen size of your choice. It can also be broadcast on the internet. There are lots more features not explained in the video and I cant type for ever :)
It's an interesting viewpoint Ed! As an avid early adopter I both agree and disagree :-) The Seestar, once you takes the raw images off the scope and stack/process them yourself, gives very solid results - even on more difficult targets from Tokyo (!). I've had a lot of fun processing its images, and its dualband filter for emission nebulae isn't bad! The small FOV is a compromise as well due to field rotation, although that gets much better once you mount the Seestar un equatorial mode (not officially supported and has its limitations, but it works - it does go back to what you said: wait for better smart scopes to come out). As you mention the onboard processing is indeed limited to a very simple unweighted stacking algorithm and effectively an autostretch. This can and will ve optimized, although how far can "autoprocessing" go in the short term is another question. And yes, after 15 minutes you won't see much improvement, since the next doubling in SNR will come after a further 45 minutes of imaging :-) But that's for astrophotography in general! By the way you dont really need the leveler anymore - the Seestar now has a three point alignment routine that takes care of misleveling. Although some people have issues with the TPA routine and still need the leveler. To me what is truly incredible with the Seestar is that I can plop it down, and 1 minute later I'm imaging. 5 minutes later I could clearly see the corkscrew structure of M27. From Tokyo. For $500. It's a unique experience. The best compliment on the Seestar I get in the comments of my videos is "It's AI generated images" or "It downloads the images from the Internet". Having seen the raw frames I know for a fact it's not true, but this kind of accusation is actually high praise. Main issues for me with the Seestar is the dithering every 5 frames that adds a lot of overhead, the poor tracking near zenith, and the high rejection rates of subframes. Most of those get fixed by using it in EQ mode (unsupported :-( ) and using 30s subframes. And yes, the landfill aspect. I'm worried about this too because even though the battery is replaceable, the tech will get obsolete... Oh, and I personally don't think smart telescopes will end up getting better results than traditional means - near equal, sure, but not better. Traditional means are also advancing at a fast pace! In a way, your waiting advice applies to some of the traditional gear too :-)
Totally agree with you Cuiv. I have only been in this hobby a couple of years but give me a go to mount, my refractor or SCT and a nice astro camera. I personally love the hands on approach (even though I use a ASIAir) and post processing my images! These new systems may be good to get even more interested in the hobby, but I don’t think they can ever produce better images than a more traditional approach. Dr B from Manitoba, Canada 🇨🇦
This is a non elitist point of view. Thank you Cuiv. Yes, with 10k worth of gear, a night and a half a day of processing you can get a better image. Not all of us have the time or money to do that.
I agree with Cuiv. I love EAA and I like to see quick results, it’s so satisfying. Even though I have an 8” scope and camera, I’ve only attempted EAA or that plus some very quick post touch up to improve color, contrast, etc. I’m thinking of getting the s50 as it will be much easier to set up and start imaging than my big scope which always takes at least 30 minutes.
@martynh5410 I like to let the seestar "cook" while I fart around with visual on my 150mm mak or my 80mm F8 refractor. When I stop to give my "working eye" a break, I'll give the seestar a new target (usually something i simply can't see with a glass enhanced mk1 eyeball) and let it chew on that and get back to lookin' It has its place.
I agree that Smart Telescopes are exciting. I disagree that one shouldn’t buy them now. Two nights ago, I viewed 19 objects, 12 of which I could never really see on my 80mm refractor or 8” SCT in my Bortle 8 area. The $500 I spent for the scope was equal to one of my Delos lenses and one UHC filter. It was money VERY well spent. I agree that the products will get better and less expensive (less than $500 ? Really???) over time. I plan to happily upgrade when that happens. In the meantime, I will enjoy all of my equipment, including the SeeStar.
After 2 hours with Seestar while seated comfortably in my car I've seen more than during previous 12 months of using optical telescope when staying out during cold nights. This is a gamechanger.
I bought one last week and it’s fantastic. I highly recommend it. It’s worth way more to me than the $500 I paid for it. It’s so light weight and convenient and the setup is so quick. My only complaint is 1: too many cloudy days and 2: starlink satellites
if everyone waits, there'll be no development. Vote for the future with your money. Agree with some items, disagree with others - comparing a $500 smart scope with a Tak priced at 4-5 times the price (once you add the extras needed to do imaging, camera, filters, dew heater, PC) is off the mark.
I’m with you Randy, we have a product that is reachable by many and opens their eyes. I don’t care if the magnification is bad, they plug it in and get something they feel proud about sharing. If they went down the rat hole of Astrophotography, it would be years before they could share something proudly.
@@Bridse.Agreed! How many people have been turned off the hobby by mass produced junk visual scopes? By big names too! At least these will give them a somewhat decent result!
I’m having fun with my Seestar, isn’t that what it’s all about, having fun? I’m in the process of selling thousands of $$’s of astro gear I’ve had for years, sitting in cases and boxes, Seestar is easy and fun.
I sold $1500 worth of rarely used imaging equipment for a new SeeStar and an updated iPad… with money left over to take my wife and daughters out for sushi and a movie. Well worth the change.
This is a very apples and oranges, biased review. some comments: stacking; the Seestar has the option to save all separate frames. Stacking can be done in external programs like Siril. Even over multiple sessions. Same for processing and filtering. You cannot compare the present smart telescopes with true astrophotography setups that cost thousands of dollars. Nobody expects astrophotography or indeed Hubble or JWSL quality. The green background is caused by the internal filter, there are aftermarket products to install the best filters available. Can you take one the the devices in the back of Ed's room safely on your bicycle and cycle to a dark spot to start a short observation session before the clouds come in?
Doesn't it feel like you're just using mouse clicks to lead to a picture of fixed quality, less than what you can already get online? Do you feel like you've created an image when you're done? That's where I struggle. Yeah, Ed's full Takahashi rig was an absolutely silly comparison regarding picture quality, even if he just meant to illustrate what's possible, or what modern amateur astronomers expect, but what about that sense of creativity? I see astrophotography as a creative art, and the Seestar seems to take over all creative aspects of that art, leaving the operator as someone who just pushes the buttons to get the predictable, limited result, available only on their screen. Am I missing something? A lot of people seem to like it, so maybe I'm a noob who doesn't get it. I haven't bought my 1st scope yet, and I want to learn. School me if you see something I don't. 🙂
@@beenaplumber8379 You can't go to a place with a really dark sky every night, not even every weekend. The seestar let's you enjoy your hobby without having to set up everything, and just enjoy taking pictures of the moon, or the sun, or just some deep sky objects. If you want to use your creativity, you can still go out with your astrophotography equipment and take that beautiful pictures. Both options complement each other, not the other way around.
@@Mystearica Thanks much for the reply. I'm actually ok with limited photo quality. Right now I use a Sony Alpha 6100 with a 210 mm kit lens on a cheap photo tripod. That's it. No filters added or removed, just a lotta ISO and a lotta hunting by memory. (And a lotta stacked 1 sec exposures.) I want a scope, and I can't afford much, and the Seestar has a great price tag. I could get that or a Dobs, with total control of everything and even worse photo quality but real viewing quality. It's another ridiculous comparison - the Seestar vs the Dobs. They do opposite things. I'd like something in the middle, but then I have to spend $1k - $2k, more if I want a decent mount. A cell phone with gyros and accelerometers would be nice, even with my camera so I could use that kind of star-finding app. I get it though - even packing up my cheap camera gear on a clear night to find a dark sky is a chore. When you get to a remote location, what do you set it on? Do you bring a table? All I can think of is putting it on the top of my car, but that's hardly stable or level.
@@Mystearica I just wanted to share this with you - I just watched a video about remote observing (renting space in a dark sky observatory and operating the telescope online, the way I think professional astronomers do). I think that idea felt a lot like using something like the Seestar. Sure, it's all on a computer screen. Sure, the coordinates are already worked out, but I think I'm starting to understand how it really is like modern astronomy.
Completely agreed. For example I am going to Turkey end of this Summer and next year winter to New Zealand to capture Magellanic cloud from the Southern hemisphere. The mobility is the most important thing for me.
I wish to personally thank all of those who purchased the rev1 of the SeeStar, thus solidifying the line's future. I will be seriously interested when the SeeStar II comes out :) Here's the thing though. Ed is reviewing the SeeStar from the lens of an experienced Astrophotographer and telescope guy. He isn't the target market. The SeeStar, in my opinion, is not geared towards those users who already have a proper Astrophotography rig unless they know exactly what they are getting with a SeeStar and just want one for the very casual use. The SeeStar is geared more to those who would like to get into casual astro but don't have the time, money or abilities to set a proper rig up.
You should watch what a lot of other 'experienced astrophotographers' had to say about it and then you'll realise that not only is this man wrong, he's seriously bitter and somewhat delusional.
The thing is, I don't care that the images aren't that great. I'm not an astrophotographer and am not trying to be. I spent $400 (pre-order) to very easily see things I would otherwise not be able to see. I hope someday I can get out in dark skies with a big dob, but it's not happening right now. The Seestar is really fun! Maybe if you've been involved with telescopes / astronomy / astrophotography for a long time, you're not impressed; and I'm sure the criticisms will help companies improve, but as an astronomy noob and regular customer, I love mine. And I'm excited to see where they go from here!
Well said. I have been attracted to watch the sky/astral objects from my middle school (30 years ago) and dreamed to have my telescope for 20 years after worked, but I never have one because living in an unban city plus shortage of personal time/space plus the size/weight of the devices limited the dream. Seestar released me, now I can go to the top of my apartment building everyday (if weather allowed) to get a picture of something I had only seen in website AND watch that part of sky by my eyes to imagine what it actually like. With Seestar I watched sky more frequency. That is why I really appreciate ZWO and similar companies who can target the customers like me.
I would not have started the story about the Seestar with "It's not that great". Sets a negative tone before understanding your POV. At $499 it's equivalent to the 60mm department store telescope from the 1960s. And factoring in inflation, it's about the same price. It's all about Electronically Assisted Astronomy, or as it is called; EAA. You will see more in a short stack of images, than anything visual through a small telescope in an urban location. I could not see M82 at all in my $10,000 refractor through a $400 premium eyepiece from my B9 location, but the Seestar captured it digitally in only a few minutes. Now to be fair, there are other smartscopes in the $3000 to $4000 range that do seem over-priced, but the little Seestar at $499 is a great value as a gateway telescope into the wonderful hobby of amateur astronomy.
@@reginaldwilkins5112 Why do you want to pay for their R&D? Like you don't need to, this is a private market, the companies are going to develop this technology whether you pay for the R&D or not so like just save the money and wait until a $500 scope gets you three times as much.
@@edting but ZWO has presently done the right thing by establishing a new market with a new customer base. I guarantee you if I were to buy this unit and show case the ease of use, minimal time commitment, while performing chores inside your house or watching shows, you're going to have a lot of buy in from from non-astronomers. With that said, I'm not in a rush to buy. I'm confident ZWO has a second version in the works, but I already see my use case having immediately benefit when the time comes.
But one doesn't need a Tak FS-60C to get comparable images. A good 60mm ED doublet AND a guide camera can be had for $500. Getting a good mount at that budget will be a challenge though. Something like an used Celestron AS-GT can be had but it will be far bulkier (but much more useful at the same time.)
@@hcm5467 To squeeze within the $500 budget the mount will be one of the cheapest GOTO models (and to go with a cheaper OTA) and I really wouldn't recommend that. Going with the equipment I suggested before will end up somewhat above $500 but the components are higher quality and more versatile. Since everyone wants a strain wave mount one can get lucky with used but good GOTO GEM mounts for far less than when they were new.
Ok so let's compare the seestar to your 60 mm doublet with guide scope and no mount since it's the same price. I'm willing to bet the seestar gets much better results.
Ed, sir I watch your videos because of your expertise. But somehow you missed the mark on the S50 review. The Seestar images are so much more than the jpg it sends to your phone. With the option to download the fits files, and process them with your favorite astrophotography editing software, the images are so much better than that jpg. Even if you don't download all the sub images, just simply processing the jpg with your phone photo editor turns even the Horsehead Nebula into a nice image. So for $500 can you assemble a rig that does equally as good as the S50? Not a chance. I've owned an Evolution 9.25 SCT for almost a year. I love it. The number of things I've viewed with it since buying it is extremely slim compared to the number of objects I've seen and imaged with the Seestar since buying it in late January. With the Seestar, I've now photographed 77 of the 110 Messier objects, almost another hundred of the NGC, SH2, and other catalogs. I've even captured three supernovas, five comets, and three quasars, all with the S50. One of the quasars I captured is almost 10 billion light years away. Show me any $500 telescope where that is possible. Tell me the least expensive rig you own that will capture a quasar 10 billion light years away. I'm sure it's well above $500 and not as easy to set up. I can be imaging in about 2 minutes from the time I decide to take the S50 outside. How long does it take to move that Tak and setup? If you're going to compare the S50 to the Tak, let's discuss mobility, ease of use, etc.
if you have a site i would love to see your images! this is a really compelling option but naturally this review leaves me concerned. i'd happily pay double for a larger sensor with a wider FOV, so maybe i'll wait... but i would love to see the quality you can get with processing yourself
Agree with your comment. Love Ed's videos and opinions, but he did miss the mark here. I have always been heavily against smart telescopes but the S50 offers incredible value per dollar. Nothing will perform as well at the 500 dollar price point. This thing would be a steal even at the 1000 dollar price point just based on ease of use alone. Dare I say - this is the best astronomical product to come out within the past 10, maybe even 20 years. The price simply cannot be beat!
Yes, my Seestar has limitations. But I also have a Celestron Nexstar 6 that sees a fraction of the Seestar's use. I realized I needed a Kia, not a Porshe. I can easily hop in the car with my son, Sagan, drive a few minutes with the Seestar and show him live images in seconds. The excitement of even having the app add clarity with each stacked image keeps him tuned in and asking questions. For me, that's a huge win. Finally, you're correct in that the on-device processing leaves a lot to be desired and the FoV is too narrow. But, I'm seeing users create fantastic mosaics in post and leveraging color correction to create impressive images. As good as a $5k rig for the guy who has a lot of time and money? Of course not. But what a wonderful and reasonably priced device to drive interest in astronomy.
For an old guy like me, flailing for 20 years with a Meade Newtonian and a Celestron refractor, I'm happy with my DwarfLab2 with its tiny, grainy images and frustrating operating system. At least I'm seeing things, in Bortle 7 suburban skies, the cloudy PNW, which has really increased my appreciation of what is up there! Must be my old-guy-novice limited expectations, not at all ambitious, but still fun at this stage. And I don't have any "aperature envy!"
I love my Dwarf, it as a few growing pains, but the positives far, far out weigh any negatives. I will be shooting the eclipse with it and have taken to a bortle 2 area. It takes all of a couple of minutes to set up in astronomy mode. @@edting
@@edting yes it's weird, but as I mentioned, fun for the limited expectations. It's like the first time I saw a prism in the optical path of a monocular, or the first time I used my little Meade Newtonian: not intuitive, making the ability to see anything at all surprising and delightful!
The portability of the dwarf is its ace in the hole, seestar gets you better images but I just returned from Japan (organized tour) a nd brought my dwarf in my carry on. Imaged on 3 clear nights under bottle 3-4, much better than my bottle 8-9 at home!!
I have Bortle 4 skies. Through my £700 10" Dobsonian I cannot see the spiral structure of spiral galaxies. Through my £500 Seestar S50 I can see the spiral structure... with just one 10 second exposure.
You make a great point! My 8SE was great for the moon, planets and double stars, but everything else was a big disappointment. Just a lot of fuzzy blobs. I'm strongly considering a Seestar to open up the rest of the universe for me.
Life is short Ed. I have 5 friends here in Columbus, Ohio that have them. The results are always stunning. No issues. There will always be something better coming. Just like computers. The Seestar is more than ready right now.
Well Ed, seriously you missed the point of the 500usd seestar. I can put the seestar in my dads hands for the first time and 5minutes later he is totally amazed... try that with any usual highend rig...
Ed, I dont think they are meant to be compared to an actual rig…You cannot compare these devices like Seestar and Dwarf with a traditional rig at all. That isnt what they are meant to be. I think they are geared as a ‘gateway drug’ into astro. I have a big set up that I have spent WAY too much money on… and it is beautiful, and takes beautiful images. About 10k in, which is a lot for me! I bought a Dwarf 2 last year, just for fun, for 500 bucks… and it is fun! Hassle free! I did a head to head on the Heart Nebula, after post processing the Dwarf data it was a pretty good image, not as good as my 94 edph Sharpstar of course, but honestly there isnt a 9500 dollar difference… with the right processing they are quite powerful little devices considering the amount of money you arent spending on them! When I first got into astronomy I bought a Celestron 114 Astromaster, it was 300 bucks and probably the worst scope ever created!!! Spending 500 on a smart scope like this would have been a way better entrance into astro… companies like Celestron should be ashamed for putting out trash products like they do, how many people have been completely turned off of astronomy due to these horrible scopes??? Countless!!! I have not heard one bad word about these cheap smart scopes from any beginner, they love them and it makes them fall in love with astronomy… WIN WIN!
"I think they are geared as a ‘gateway drug’ into astro." That's exactly my problem with them. Looking through a screen is going to significantly dilute the experience. This thing isn't meant to compete with traditional astrophotography equipment, it's competing with regular telescopes. If you compare it to a similarly priced real telescope you'll find it to be severely lacking.
They will make the hobby worse overall. People don't know what they want. They're allured by pretty photos but once they get a telescope and see the universe with their own two eyes they'll realize what it's all about. If they start with this glorified cellphone app it's going to stunt their long-term interest in the hobby.
@@Top_Weeb I think it is filling a completely different niche, EAA… so neither traditional visual scopes nor astrophotography. It is a different category all together. A traditional scope cannot show you the detail in deep space objects that these devices are capable of capturing. I really think it is the dso category made popular by Hubble and JWST that the average consumer wants to see, not the fuzzy blobs that you get with a traditional scope. Again, I do not think these are at all geared towards anyone who is already established in astronomy or astrophotography. These are hassle free devices that anyone can use to see some of the amazing objects in the night sky.
@@Top_Weeb I think some will… but some will want more, some will take the next step and invest real money in good equipment. How much damage have the heavily marketed junk scopes from Celestron and other manufacturers done over the years to this hobby??? At least these devices do what they say can do. I think they are a fine way for the average person to get involved with astronomy. I know many who are using these devices for public outreach with great success and a great reaction from average folks! Dwarf Labs has given away countless units to those who are using them for public outreach, that is a phenomenal thing for a manufacturer to do! I dont see Astro Physics or Tak or even Skywatcher or Celestron doing things like this to engage people and bring them into the hobby. Kudos to them!
I've been an amateur astronomer since 1975, performing several hundred star programs using some great optics. Lugging all this stuff around was a real chore, setting it up was a pain, and the investment was thousands of dollars. The first time a "point and shoot" telescope came on the market I bought one, for years to come I spent more time enjoying star gazing because it was easier to do it. I would tell my audiences that the best telescope to have is one you will use, not hide away in the closet because it's too much work to set up for an hour or two of viewing. I think the ZWO Seestar S50 is a good solution for anyone, new or advanced amateur, to enjoy astronomy. The setup is easy, weighs very little, and doesn't cost thousands to image the Sun, Deep Sky Objects, the Moon (a favorite with my audiences), etc. Looking in my equipment closet at $$$$$ of astronomy gear, I wish this scope was around when I started. Thumbs Up!
Your comparisons of the SeeStar vs the Takahashi are incomplete and that is unfortunate. Specifically, you compare internally processed Seestar images with externally processed Takahashi ones. If you truly wanted to make fair comparisons, you should have externally processed the raw SeeStar FITS images through the identical flow you used for the Takahashi. This would have been a more objective approach and the results would have been much closer in final image quality.
Give these devices a few generations; they'll give the Taks of the world a run for their money. Using the FITS files won't make that much difference given the current state of the product. It's also a non-intuitive process and it's something that should be streamlined in the app.
@@edting I leant mine to my Gran a few weeks back, as she has always had a passing interest in Astro. She was able to operate it without issue and loved the results (she even had a play around with a little post processing in Siril). I'm struggling to understand what exactly you found so challenging?... You turn it on, you point, you shoot.
@@edting You seriously expect the automatic stacking in the telescope to be as good as PixInsight? Do you not know that PixInsight with the Xterminator add-ons is just as expensive as the whole telescope? You can’t be serious!
Yeah and Takahashi is a completely overrated piece of crap for what you pay. Way way overpriced. it reminds me of these academic beanheads who buy BMWs. Another piece of crap jut buying it for the name. The word Snob snob snob comes to mind in this review from ed...
It is a good way to get people interested and then they can upgrade if they decide the results are not good enough. If we all held off of buying a smart scope, waiting for the design to improve, then it never would, it would just die a death because the manufacturers would think there was no market for them.
Thats funny. Takahashi FS60 ~770$, plus you'll need mount, tracker, and some patience, to build this up in the field. And, ofc, you'll need to bring all this weight to some dark place. On the other hand, we have a lightweight setup, that combines all that things, that you can always have in the trunk and when you have a dark sky - use it. Yes, images directly stacked by the seestar, looks not so good, but well, on conventional setups, you don't have even that. So you would spend some time to manually process images from the both sides. Field of view, yep, not that good, but vaonis vespera already fixed it with mosaic mode, and ZWO promises to add that feature too. Seestar was realeased just recently, and ofcourse it needs to be fixed in some issues. But it's impressive for me already.
Ed, as you can tell by the comments to your video, you've completely missed the mark. HUGE kudos to ZWO for putting together a complete solution for viewing and photographing DSOs. For every person out there who wants to go through the steep and expensive learning curve for traditional scopes, then put their frankenstein assemblies in a closet, I'll bet there are dozens of people who simply want to view the stars. It's almost like you didn't really use it. You looked for silly nits like "E-waste" when users throw this away in favor of next gen solutions. Really Ed? What did you do with your last car? Please tell me you kept it.
It was truly an embarrassing review. He just has some bug up his ass about these type of products and then he sets up a comparison between his 10,000 dollar rig and a 500 dollar one. Very flawed review.
I’ve had my Seestar for a week now. I had nearly left the hobby due to issues with eyesight, lifting heavy gear and pure fiddle factor. From what I have observed, the Seestar overcomes all of these issues at an affordable price point. Certainly it has its limitations but it seems that it does, in fact, collect adequate enough data on a significant number of DSOs to produce very acceptable images with post-processing. One minor correction: the internal battery is user-replaceable and this is easily accomplished.
Respectfully, there are quite a few things that can be improved on the Seestar, but the things you mention aren't it's major short comings in my experience. I have the feeling you haven't done much EAA/live stacking with something like SharpCap before, because the Seestar very much resembles that experience but in much more streamlined way: * the performance - the performance in my experience is identical to say a Redcat 50 paired with an ASI462MC (yes the redcat is a Petzval but for a sensor this small that won't matter). But what you get is a) cheaper and b) much more portable. You would need more glass to get better performance, that's just physics and we all know aperture fever and the downsides that come with that. * the color balance - every picture you show has the telltale messed up star colors of a duo narrowband filter. This happens on a conventional AP rig too if you use such a filter. It is a godsend if you live in a Bortle 7 area like me tough and I'm happy they included it out of the box. You can disable it for an unfiltered view. * Diminishing returns is a thing with all astrophotography, you need 4x the exposure to double the signal-to-noise-ration (the "feeling" of the noise). So quality improves very quickly from one minute to 4, to 16 minutes but then you need an hour to double SNR again and after that it's going to take a good chunk of the night. A watched kettle never boils and if you're live stacking (like I often do) patience tends to wear out after say 5 minutes, maybe 15. Again with only 50mm of aperture there's only so many photons it can catch. This is not something unique to the Seestar. * The postprocessing in the APP/device is intentionally limited, again to be able to have this near-live viewing. The math for for example pixel rejection or selecting the best sub isn't done for live stacking, simply because you have to start with the first sub and good pixel rejection algorithms or advanced normalization require looking at all the data at once, not as it comes in. And it takes a beefy machine (200W CPU with 16 cores in mine) the better part of an hour to run the data through pixinsight that the seestar has to do on-the-fly. That isn't going to change in any near future, especially with Moore's law slowing down. For some genuine problems with the Seestar I would mention: * the general QA (there's some lemons out there) and plastic gears * the use of open source software in violation of it's license (just as in ASIAir) * with 10s subs, you lose a lot of time due to the dithering in between each sub * life expectancy of the LiPo battery and it's performance in cold weather (should have been LiFePO4 IMHO) All in all, the best scope is the one you use most of the time, and my Seestar has been outside more than my big conventional AP rig or even my more lightweight EAA setup just because the weather doesn't allow for a 30-40 minute setup time.
Ed, I love your videos, but I finally, found something I can disagree with you on, yep its the Seestar, I have a few great rigs, but recently I lost my wife, and with that any interest in astronomy or even life itself, a few years before we lost our son, and we were able to support each other, my remaining daughters were concerned about my mental health, so I got myself a little Seestar, the weather where i live seemed to be as miserable as I felt, this little gem has seen me through some of the hardest times of my life, an hour here and there, has started me on the journey of finding myself and my passion for astrophotography, once again. Obviously its never going to replace a great scope, but for those who already use apps like Pixinsight etc, have achieved great images from the raw data which is downloaded from the scope itself in single frames as FIT files, I have a disabled friend who had to give up the hobby, he just couldn't set up the equipment anymore, he's very excited at the fact he can once again enjoy the hobby, so I suppose it will find a home, and get better at what it does.
First of all, I watched at least 50 video of yours talking about telescopes and other bunch of accessories. Well, I almost spend a year watching hundreds of telescope, mount, camera, image processing, filters, focuser, polar alignment videos from other channels. All bunch of stuff will cost a lot of money and very big learning curve. I personally didn’t wanna spend much money on astrophotography rig. I didn’t wanna spend hours learning all the things I mentioned. Just for this price, this telescope is absolutely a STEAL. I really don’t care what people think about this telescope. “Oh it’s not real astrophotography.” Why do you want me to spend 5-10k$?? If the result which comes from s50 satisfies me, saves me a lot of TIME, saves me a lot of MONEY, why I wouldn’t buy such smart telescope. I ordered mine yesterday, also svbony nebula filter. Can’t wait to test this beast!!
I have four telescopes and I got a seestar s50 in January. The best telescope is the one you use and it's so easy to set up compared to my lx200 etc.. that it's the only one I've been using for the last 3 months. Ed is right, these will definitely get better over time but for $500, there's just nothing better at the moment. Also, it's such a great device to get beginners into the hobby and I can't stress that this is probably the best attribute of the Seestar.
Not all of us can have the Lord's budget to have 4 or 5 telescopes of all types and for all needs. For those like me who cannot spend more than US$500, the Seestar S50 is quite an achievement and a great conquest. Every day that passes, I enjoy it more and take better photographs with said device.
I referred Ed to a couple of websites with excellent SeeStar photos, but he wanted to see what I could do. Since I don’t own astrophotography specific software, I cannot produce what people with expertise can create. His response to me implied he thought the excellent SeeStar photos were fake. Elitism exemplified.
I understand where this guy is coming from... but i think he's missing the point of this telescope. The absolute WOW factor you get from this thing for $500 is insane. Showing friends and family the photos that it is live stacking while you're looking at the object thru a conventional telescope simultaneously is an awesome experience and cannot be overstated. Also the fact that it simply needs to just be leveled and away you go is amazing and so easy. Of course a $500 telescope with a small camera sensor is not going to look as good as a $10,000-$20,000 set up. And of course the photos taken on that 10-20k set up that are pain stakingly edited in specialized software are going to look light years better. The average person doesnt even know thousands of these faint objects are in their very own sky every single night and they can unlock the ability to see this stuff with this $500 telescope. It is a great way to get them curious/amazed looking up at the sky every night and then eventually may lead them down the road of an expensive "conventional set up". I mean the set up alone and post processing needed of a conventional set up is enough to deter people from getting into astrophotography all together, let alone the prohibitive cost factor. You can pop this thing on a tripod, level it, and set it off to capture some photos that are better than 99% of people could ever imagine. If this telescope was marketed all over TV channels or the internet the number of "astrophotographers" would 10x over night because the barrier to entry is so small and you dont have to understand a thing about space to use it. And if we "wait for the better version" its likely to be more expensive. I also understand people can find all kinds of guides online for cheap used astro set ups with used mounts and used DLSR cameras etc that will take better photos but they are a hastle for a new comer to set up and figure out how to use and then forget about the post imaging processing. This thing is just taken right out of the box and taking better photos for people with ZERO SPACE OR PHOTOGRAPHY KNOWLEGE than they would get with a "traditional" set up with no knowlege on how to use the stuff.
I love my SeeStar. I have been working towards mastering my Nexstar 8se with some nights of frustration. I’m continuing with learning and plan on building towards my own rig in the future. We understand that the SeeStar isn’t nearly as good as an expensive rig with years of experience, but I think you are missing the whole point that this little, affordable device keeps the fires burning towards learning all that is possible. I’ve been able to delve into some post processing software that I would not have been possible for me without this affordable device. There have been multiple upgrades already. Instead of being such a downer, why don’t you celebrate that more people are now able to start to see the beauty in our night skies.
I have a seestar s50 that I use along with my other rigs. The images it produces are nothing spectacular compared to a proper ap setup, but it's quite amazing what it can obtain with the amount of effort involved. It is super easy to use. Sometimes, you may not feel like setting up a full rig, or maybe the sky is only clear for an hour or two, and putting the big rig out doesn't seem worth it. The seestar excels in such situations. Its ease of use can get more folks enjoying astronomy, which is wonderful! I think it is great for what it is, and the price point is fair for what you get.
In my point of view the S50 is a great tool for educational purposes. A club or even a school can probably afford to buy a set and motivate young people to do astrophotography with a nearly 100% chance of a picture where you can see something unvisible to the "naked eye". When I was young and started out with some astrophotography I was just some kind of "weird" guy spending the night out in the dark (at that time still dark..), trying to track a guide star and fighting the problems of film photography. We had to hand the films to the lab and at the end there were maybe 6 pictures in a series of 36 where the stars were pinpoint sharp, not to forget the loss of sensitivity of the emulsion, eating up the extra exposure time. What followed was an interest in visual observation, sketching once in a while what I could see in the eyepiece.
Hi Ed, I've re-watched this review a couple of more times and see your points about waiting for the next generation of "smart scopes" and the different ways the S50 falls short. A totally reasonable perspective, and I thank you for taking the time and effort to produce the video. In several of your prior videos you'd stated that the highest compliment you can offer a scope is when you forget you're reviewing it and just "have fun". That is what the S50 has consistently done for me and my kids. I really couldn't involve (hold their attention) them while setting up my refractor rig, but with the S50 we plop it down and off we go. Nebulas, star clusters, galaxies, we search, talk, image, and Have Fun. $500 that has paid for itself several times over.
Ed's first impressions of the SeeStar sounds very reminiscent of those told to me by the owner of the Hifi store I worked at when Sony gave him a sneek peek of their first Walkman. He didn't think it was ready for prime time when he compared it to top of the line Nakamichi Dragon and Revox cassette decks of the day. 😂😂😂
The old story of the Walkman. Have heard the same story many time like Motorola mocking Apple because they knew how to make phones!! Where are the Motorola smartphones? Where is Apple? Same with the first MO3 players. Nice to read from someone probably my age and both of us having fun with a Seestar
I love your videos. But this one is a clear miss on pretty much every point. Of course the Seestar and similar small smart telescopes are not going to give the results of a dedicated Astrophotography setup. They aren't supposed to. Your own comparison really took me aback. Why are you comparing a $500 USD all in one Smart telescope to photos taken with your FS60? That OTA alone is what? 1100? Plus camera, plus mount. Plus everything else. I would hope the photos would be better. But lets put aside the cost. Now how long does it take to set up the FS60? How long did it take you to gather the knowledge to do it easily? How portable is that setup? A S50, or similar smart telescope are great for people who want to be able to enjoy the hobby but face various roadblocks. Don't have a lot of disposable income? Small Smart telescope is perfect. Health issues and can't move around a full size setup? Same answer. Time constraints? Takes 5 minutes to set up and get going. Not much room to store a normal setup? The thing is the size of a lunch box. Travel a lot for work and want something you can take with you while away from home for a week? Guess what. S50 again. This is indeed the time to be buying one of these smart telescope. And you should buy the one that suits your needs, whether it be the Seestar or other end of the Spectrum like the Origin. Because that is what will drive the market. I really feel that these devices are going to help grow the hobby and we should be encouraging that not being mad because it doesn't punch above its weight class against a 2-3K setup. This video reeks of elitism and confirmation bias which is shocking to me from Mr Ting. ETA before anyone comes at me: I have a number of dedicated Astrophotography rigs that I love. I also have an S50 and pretty much any time I am using the others I will have the S50 going. Because why not?
@@edtingEd I've seen you're getting attacked a bit on this video. I did a similar video on the Dwarf Lab some months back and got a heap of backlash. I think your points here are well made. Keep up the good work.
Confirmation bias is unusually strong among people who buy these things. I've noticed that from the beginning. It resembles religious fervor. I know someone who bought the device you mentioned. He has never gotten it to work. You still can't say anything bad about it.
@@edtingIt's quite bizarre Ed. It's like when digital pianos first came out, they were quite awful, it's taken so many generations for them to get where they are now. I think the religious fever analogy is accurate.
I remember buying my first PC. The professional advice was "They are not real computers, underpowered, toys, WAIT." I didn't wait then. I'm not waiting now. Early adopters know what they are adopting. A year from now when the 3x more powerful successor to this shows up at one-third the price, guess what I will do?
Us poors should not be allowed into the hobby!!! It is carefully guarded by all the grumpy old men who spend all day yelling at kids to ‘get off their lawn!’. Just pop onto any astro forum and you can hear them spewing on about how if you arent grinding your own lenses and using paper star charts out in the field and only doing visual astro, unless you are using glass plates for imaging (thats pretty modern but acceptable) that you dont know anything! Unless you spend the cost of an average new car or even a house on scopes that they basically hold a lottery for to be able to purchase one, then you are too poor for the hobby. They closely guard this weird idea that being an amateur astronomer somehow makes them so much more intelligent and elevates them high above the rest of the unwashed masses that if even one of us dirty, stupid, poor folk slip through into the hobby then it might knock them off their self installed pedestal… shame on us!😂😂😂
You are not poor if you're spending $500 on a scope, budget beginner scopes start at $200 so if you're willing to spend more than double than that on your first telescope you are rich.
Just imagine when the Kodak Box Camera came out at the end of the 19th century some "Professional Photographer" says "it's not that good"...don't buy it...sheesh!
Another comparison of apples and pears. 500 vs 5000 USD. EAA vs astrophotography. The S50 should be better compared with Dobson scopes. The question is, what can you see with a 8 or 10" Dobson compared to the S50 under various Seeing conditions and Bortle scales. Then, we are much closer. Btw. the reason for using a small sensor (IMX462) in the S50 is related to the limitations that an Alt/AZ mount brings with it. The larger the sensor, the bigger is the effect of field rotation, ending in oblong stars or at least blurry stars. I'm pretty sure, that we will see more of such smart telescopes in different sizes for different purposes in the future (as we all know, there is no one-size-fits-all scope). As always, demand and price will decide it.
@@hedgehog3180 "This is not for everybody" is mildly critical. "A few things about this disappoint me" is mildly critical. "Absolutely do not buy this now or in the near future" is not a mildly critical review.
No reason to landfill one of them when you are done with it. Just put a new battery in, then send to a school in South America that has an astronomy program that wants it.
I’ve got about $6,500 in my main rig. I just fell into a SeeStar for a much lower price, so I now have one. I fully understand the limitations of the SeeStar but I like the idea taking it off the backseat and showing my family what AP is and give a general idea of what I enjoy. I find no problem with owning one knowing what it’s capable. I also fully intend to process my images in PixInsight. Maybe lighten up a bit lol. Perhaps these devices will encourage others to give our hobby a chance.
To be fair, there’s a huge price difference between Ed’s Tak imaging set up and a SeeStar 50. I’d expect there to be a difference in quality. Some people with only $500 to spend might find this one of two ways to do some basic (not perfect) Astrophotography.
I agree with a few of your comments, but I disagree with many your comments. I have 4 scopes and astrophotography rigs costing many times what I paid for the Seestar and I love it. I don't think you use the Seestar very well. My images are much better than yours. The people on the Seestar user Facebook pages are having a lot of fun with this entry level smart scope, including me! Yes, the sensor is small and field rotation is limiting a single night's imaging, but we have found workarounds that let us enjoy the Seestar. If I only have one or 2 clear hours, I'm not pulling out my big rig, I'm going to have fun with the Seestar. I hope not too many people are going to be turned off by this review.
Doesn't it kinda go against the entire point of a smart scope that you have to use work arounds to get anything decent out of it? Like isn't the entire selling point of this thing convenience and the fact that you don't have to do anything to get good images?
FWIW, for the $399.00 USD cost. I am having a whole lot of fun with my Seestar S50. For ZWO, the Seestar S50 has become a world wide hit. I can't wait to see what ZWO has on the drawing room table. Perhaps a Super Seestar? With my experience with the present Seestar S50, I would order one in a heart beat.
I love the Seestar. The simplicity and wealth of information I have learnt as a beginner is unmatched. Granted you can get but results but at what cost? The review is too critical. Remember, the target audience is a beginner. For that, Seestar hits the nail on the head.
Two nights ago, I used my SeeStar in my Bortle 8 site to view and photograph 35 deep sky targets (5-40 minutes each). 25 of these targets I had NEVER seen before at my site, even while using my $25K in astronomy gear (80mm refractor, 8" SCT, Delos eyepieces, binoviewers, IS binoculars, etc). $500 was an insignificant cost for what I saw and how quickly I could see it due to the onboard processing. Yes, I could certainly have waited for improvements in the gear and features that might be available in the future but the time value of having an improved experience NOW is incalculable. I NOW have a portable, simple, time efficient, good quality, low cost, instrument to complement the other items in my toolbox.
I have been following your reviews for many years, and have agreed (mostly) with your takes on many types of Astro equipment. However, I have to say that I’m a bit disappointed in your review of the SeeStar S50. I have been in the hobby for 40 years now and the Seestar S50 has given me renewed excitement about a hobby I had lost interest in. I have primarily been a visual observer because I find astrophotography an expensive and tedious part of the hobby. Most importantly, the IMMEDIACY of the imaging, and being able to share pics in “real time” with my grandchildren has gotten them very excited about the hobby. They were able to easily navigate the Seestar App and take pics of their own….this was a game changer for them. A standard astrophotography setup may achieve better results, but it certainly doesn’t generate the excitement that the immediacy of the Seestar achieves. Imho, it is well worth the $499.
I agree with Ed most of the time. And although I do agree with his negative comments about the S50, I disagree with the notion that it’s not that good of a smart scope. It’s been a great tool I use every once in a while to digitally show friends abroad a few images of what I’m looking at. You just can’t beat the quick setup and use. Yes, its images are sub par compared to expensive astrophotography pro rigs. And if somebody buys this thinking they are getting pro images with it then yes they are mistaken. But my passion is in the live viewing and this is just a side tool that is occasionally used. For me it’s been a worthy investment, as a non-Astro photography guy. Still, glad Ed did a discussion on this unit. Thanks.👍
I think you’re missing the whole point. The Seestar S50 is dead easy to use and is opening astrophotography up to a whole new audience who don’t have the time or money to build the kind of rig that you keep referring to. Also, a lot of your comments are ill-informed. For example, the battery is easily replaceable. I know this and I’m no astrophotography expert. Similarly, I’ve never had any issues with leveling and creating RAW videos for stacking is also dead easy - I haven’t had any issues with conflicting file types. I think you’re over complicating it … perhaps this demonstrates that the future is about putting this kind of device into the hands of the novice to explore, develop and simplify the experience rather than have to listen to so called experts trying to introduce unnecessary FUD.
Exactly. And someone does not have to pay thousands of dollars to get into astrophotography. What soccer mom wants to be told in answer to her question "What telescooe should I buy my 10 year old" just buy them a Takahashi, then get them a good digital imager for around several thousands of $, and add a myriad of other accessories and your child is good to go! $500, few parents will say no way.
I think you are missing the point. This is meant as an entry to astronomy. You should be comparing the attributes to a store bought, or starter kit. You get several advanced attributes in a simple package, for a low cost.
I think the inability to view things with your own eyes makes this a really bad entry level telescope. The fun of astronomy isn't looking at pictures of stuff, it's looking at it yourself and getting more intimate with the night sky. I think the space that'll be really interesing is hybrid scopes that offer the convenience of this thing while also getting you an actual telescope you can look through yourself. Though I guess that basically already exists in the form of various guidance apps that make it extremely easy to use any telescope. I think this thing is basically only interesting if you're already into astronomy enough to want to get seriously into astrophotography but also value convenience. I think if you brought this thing as your actual first scope you'd use it for maybe a month at most before the novelty of it wore off and you realized that your experience wasn't really any different from just looking at pictures on the web, and then you either get an actual beginner scope at half the price or you drop the hobby entirely.
Ed has invaluable advice offered in an easy to understand delivery for someone like me, the Amateur's Amateur. His "If I could have only one scope" video was instrumental in my purchase of an 8" Dob, and I have never regretted it. But my pictures suck. Even a quick 5-second exposure reveals bad trailing with my smartphone. And I just don't have the disposable income for a decent quality AP rig and the ancillary equipment involved. Never mind the learning curve, I don't have the life expectancy. So $500 for a compact unit that will yield halfway decent shots without me being a shutterbug? Feels like a no-brainer. My only conundrum is should I get a Seestar or a Dwarf II?
If it wasn’t for a relatively cheap smart telescope I wouldn’t be in the hobby at all. My $500 scope gives me images many with traditional scopes can’t achieve because of the skill level required.
Hi Ed, I stumbled upon you video and thought as an recent owner of the SeeStar s50, that I would give you my views. I have been an visual astronomer for many years and own a 16" Reflections, 8" Skywatcher and a 10" Meade Lx200. I tried astrophotography in the past and struggled with the setup and getting things right. Also, I live in a large town in England with the usual light pollution issues and chasing objects visually is always difficult. I can't afford the luxury of a full modern imaging rig and don't have the space to put up a permanent setup, let along begin to understand the processing. When the SeeStar s50 came along, I decided to get one with the full knowledge that it does not compare to a full rig, but what it has done is expand my observing and allows me to see objects that were a visual challenge in a light polluted area even with a large aperture telescope. It has also helped me to understand how images are taken and I am learning how to post process. The fact that I can simply set it up anywhere (I have put it on a better tripod), turn it on, level it, select an object, adjust the focus and press go then watch the image build is, in my view, absolutely great! Yes, it has its limitations, but as an all-round starter imaging scope, I think ZWO have got it right. PS... I done some field analysis of images I took of Messier galaxies in the Virgo / Leo area under Bortle 6 skies and the s50 is pulling in 15th mag PGC galaxies in the same frame, albeit very small faint blobs, but definitely identifiable!
The simplicity and convenience is the big selling point. Plunk it down and turn it on and it does the rest. I can see the appeal, but I’ll take my Star Adventurer and mirrorless camera with lens any day.
I think astronomy is not about simplicity, quite the opposite, smart telescopes make astronomy boring, I mean you don't do anything, just letting the thing do all the work , nothing to be proud about
@@velkylev4217 I like to think some people haven’t entered the hobby because of high costs or because the technology was intimidating. This scope allows more people to pick up the hobby and spend some time outside under the stars. That has to be a good thing.
I can't wait for the "if it's not hard you haven't done the work" crowd to die out in this hobby. There's a reason training wheels exist. Want to get more people caring about dark skies and light pollution? You don't get that without things like the s50 or dwarf II. Every day people getting involved increases R&D, increases participation and makes advances happen faster. I have a goto mount, using a dslr being run by nina, being guided by phd2, all on a mini pc. How is this any different than that? Less modular, 1/3rd the price and 1/10th the weight. Very little learning curve, great for getting kids involved without complicated troubleshooting.
I think for some people they are going to have to decide is astronomy (for them) about seeing a galaxy or the process of trying to see the galaxy. For many astrophotographers the process is a big part of the appeal yet for many ordinary folks astronomy is about seeing what wonders there are and if all they see is faint foggy smudges and monochrome misty haze they might never appreciate what they are actually looking at. Anything that gets us closer to an accessible universe, even if it is kind of "point and click" is a good thing. If one young family is saved from buying a cheap telescope on a toy mount with promises of huge magnification and they can actually see something that looks like what they expect we are making progress.
I must confess I don't understand the point of comparing photographs taken with your $10,000 rig versus a $500 instrument. What was that supposed to prove?
the S50 is definately FAR better than any other scope I've had for deep sky objects. Far from perfect yes but its enabled me to see things that I just couldn't see before which is after all the main point. Would I buy another smart scope ? No this one works and is easy to use. If I really wanted to take photography seriously I'd get a proper astro rig and build it up round my SCT - a smart photography back for the SCT would definately be worth waiting for. And yes there are user replacable batteries inside the S50
ZWO is a major player, like it or not. I recently visited a few remote observatories in NM, and 2/3 of the scopes had the red cameras on the back. If there is a player who can bring the smart telescopes into the masses, it is ZWO. This story reminds me of the development of consumer drones and DJI ten or so years ago.
Seestar is a great product, especially since this is the very first version. This review was very unfair. Ed is also very illogical - he starts the review (and almost every review) by explaining what a telescope is and which end to look through. So one assumes he wants to help beginners. But very quickly he starts talking about "stacking", "white balance" and assumes his audience has turned into experienced astro-photographers. I suspect that Ed is a little miffed that he is late to the "Seestar Reviews" party - all the good ones (and useful ones) have been done months ago (eg. by Cuiv etc). It is clear that Ed could not think of anything substantive to say, so resorted to nit-picking. If you watch one of the other reviews you actually learn something useful. If you watch one of Ed's reviews, all you learn are his opinions. I have had more enjoyment with SeeStar and observed 10x better than when using eyepieces that Ed raves about (which cost twice as much as Seestar). I am sure if this had been a Televue product, Ed's review would have been entirely different.
For some of us this is an amazing product. I've been into astronomy my whole life and never had the kind of money to really make a deep dive into astrophotography. I bought a Celestron go-to 30 years ago and always struggled to set up the go-to because of the difficulty in aligning it in the first place. I would have to find the target myself and just use the tracking to keep it in the eyepiece and that was enough for me to be happy with it. The seestar I just bought I was immediately getting great images of the sun and moon and had no problem taking my first deep sky image of M101 on the very first night. I only had time for a 36 minute exposure but was quite impressed with being able to do it at all. I'm looking forward to imaging the Orion nebula and Andromeda in the next days/weeks. Long story short I am very happy with my purchase and no doubt will get years of enjoyment out of it. It helps that I'm fascinated enough with our home star to make it worth $500 in the first place, I just regret I didn't buy it sooner and had it for total eclipse
Ed, you really missed the mark here. You are comparing processed images from your imaging rig to unprocessed images from the Seestar. That is unfair and misleading. Your reviews are normally excellent and very thorough but you did not do your homework here. Take a look at some processed images the Seestar has produced. They are amazing. The Seestar is great for our hobby and will drive engagement. I have already ordered my Celestron Origin. Fasten your seatbelt!
Hi Ed, I think you had a pretty balanced review overall.. some good points regarding what could be improved. Like you, I've been enjoying the night sky since I was a kid (and I'm about 80 now) and have had way too many telescopes 🙂. I have two imaging setups involving cooled cameras, expensive mounts, guide scopes, electronic focusers, nice refractors, etc. HOWEVER, I love the Seestar S50. I've had mine since they were first released. I think the main issue is how you intend to use it. For me it is a very portable and easy way to show friends and families some of the wonders of the deep sky. I can carry to a neighbors house, put in in my car for a road trip, and always have a convenient tool to take a look at the night sky. I live in NM, so I'm fortunate to have decent skies a lot of the time. I see a LOT of awful Seestar images on the web, confirming that a lot of new users don't understand the need for a little post, etc. I agree the device post processing needs improvement. I've found that if I spend a little time doing post, it can make a huge difference in the image quality. Also, important to level as accurately as possible and agree that a leveling device is mandatory. Thanks for your review. Tony Bonanno, Santa Fe, NM
Dr. Ting, I’ve been waiting for you to post this video for a long time , even expecting it! Many of these products were in the 2000+ range but I think with this being only $500 we are “there” in terms of this being accessible to almost anyone intersted in the hobby. Excited for what the future holds for the amateur astronomer !
Obviously, based on the comments, not everyone shares your opinion… however, I for one appreciate your experience, knowledge, and perspective. Critical reviews like this helps manufactures improve their offerings… which helps move the bar forward for everyone. Let’s face it… the reason Smart Telescopes exist in the first place are the numerous niches that were not, or could not, be satisfied with existing solutions. Portability, low cost, ease of use, and shareability of results are big selling points - and kudos to the companies pursuing these features. We are very blessed to live in such times.
Ed I love your channel and watch it all the time. I have a SWED80 on a EQ6R Pro, a Williams 71 Triplet, a C5 an old Scope 60, and now a Seestar. The Seestar will do the job nicely introducing my very young grandchildren to the stars until they can look comfortably through an eyepiece. Small group outreach for novice stargazers on a budget is the Seestar's strength. I could wait for a better one, but the young ones will grow older and perhaps less interested.
Well you get a triplet scope. Small but not an achro. A mount with go to and tracking, which can be set up polar too. A Raspberry built in, and an HOO filter. Leveling has been fixed with an update. Comes with the solar filter too. Try and buy that for $500. It can store raw, so down loading you images, and processing them yourself is very doable. I think it's a great way to get into ap. When you move on/up, what a great gift to get your grandchildren into astronomy. You get to have fully automated results on night 1. Can then learn processing with the data from it. And when you buy your first real astro rig, you have an idea of how and what you want to do.
You're a real contrarian in the industry, Ed! Most other TH-cam astro influencers are raving about the Seestar. "However," you do make good points about "where we are" right now in the development of smart scopes. I have both a conventional astro-imaging rig on an EQ mount and a visual-only dob, so I agree on the limitations of the Seestar. I myself passed on it. But I went ahead and bought one for my son--he'd seen some of my images and got excited about galaxies and nebulae. I could have gotten him a traditional manual dob for the same price, but in his light-polluted city, he'd never see deep sky objects. Same thing with a $500-ish 80mm doublet refractor. I think the Seestar's achievement--and you're right, this is a "temporary" achievement--is creating a scope capable of live stacking tech that's able to see the brighter deep sky objects through light pollution. In this context, I think the Seestar is a valuable addition to the hobby.
This is more clickbait than valid comparative review and insight. You cannot beat the value, period, which never comes up. The only fair comparison would be with something (entire kit) in the same price range. It seems pretty evident that the market has been established as newbies, people without observatories who are tired of the setup and teardown, those whose gym time has not offset the weight of their gear as their years have progressed, and those who like to be setup and running in 2 minutes. External stacking and post processing is a progressive option that's available since ZWO has included the option to save every FITS frame. This seems like more of a review for the entitled few rather than a recognition of the tech, features and value.
I’m Totally excited with the Seestar as a beginner. I am a photographer and started photographing the moon . then moved on wanting to do astrophotography. I bought a tracker a Redcat Telescope to start this journey. I just couldn’t get to first base. I was having trouble with alignment , I struggled for a long time with all this never successful. I kept buying things that thought would help me get to first base . Supper frustrated I gave up. . The Seestar has allowed me to get into Deepspaces , lunar , solar. planets not great but that’s okay . Best investment i made and getting the training i need to advance. i’m learning and that’s the important part. not the money pit that i Nave in my bedroom holding my rob up 😩 I appreciate your video for the advance people . but for beginners like me it’s enough for us to view the deep pace objects and are excited to see if only the basics. The others stuff will come if we choose to invest and want more . 😊
I don't own one of these, and have no plans to buy one. However, having seen them in action I believe they are well-suited to outreach activities such as star parties. While there's nothing quite like seeing the Orion Nebula with your own eyeball, a few minutes' exposure with a Seestar does bring out a lot more than you can see with even a large telescope. The ability to find objects such as galaxies, planetary nebulae and clusters, and build an image that can be shown on a screen to a group of visitors is a really great feature. As an introduction to deep-sky astronomy, the Seestar and its rivals are remarkably good, and good value. For amateurs who want to do serious work they are far less useful.
I have a few thoughts- My imaging rig is a 9.25EdgeHD. That thing has a small field of view and doesn't zoom either. There is a huge maker market for these things and several ways to run these in equatorial mode and that's a big deal. It can save videos on the moon or sun on the device itself (50G of onboard storage) and you can save fits file of DSOs for processing outside of the device. I've taken really great images of M51, M81, M42, and M46- All with less than an hour of total exposure time. In addition to that, I use it as an outreach device, streaming lunar and solar images. These are a great way to give people access to a hobby that would otherwise have a steep learning curve and potentially much higher cost. The S50 is not without flaws, but there is no question that it gives a tremendous bang for the buck.
I think review is little bit unfair in some moments, I feel like Ed doesn't like it for some reason, and was .too picky to the seestar. Just for example zoom "issue", who said there should be a zoom? try to zoom on your Takahashi. and the "market issue" things tend to be changing you never know for sure where market is going to go. so far I see people in my astronomy club enjoy it even guys with a lot of observation experience and giant dobs that you need ladder to get to the eyepiece were able to get their first astroimage ever right out of the box.
Maybe the Seestar isn’t great for your particular purpose or compared to your equipment, which is fine. Not everything is for everyone. But for someone like me who is just getting their feet wet in astrophotography, the Seestar is perfect. It has been a great way for me to see if it is a hobby I truly wanted to invest thousands of dollars in…and I do. The fun I have had spending evenings out with my Seestar reminds me of when I spent evenings in the backyard as a kid with my cheap Tasco, in awe of nothing more than identifying the constellations. It has only whet my appetite to save up for high quality equipment and start learning about everything I can in the meantime. I’ve seen a lot of comments against the Seestar that boil down to nothing but gatekeeping and that is just disappointing, this review included. Just because something like this makes it fun and easy to get started doesn’t discount the results dedicated astrophotography buffs get from their pricey equipment and dedication to their craft. It just means more people will be exposed to the wonder of the hobby and the stars. Maybe they’ll become buffs themselves, maybe not. But they will appreciate what’s out there beyond Earth, and isn’t that the most important thing? Also please keep in mind those of us who may have physical disabilities, etc. and have trouble working with heavier equipment or more complex setups. These smart telescopes may seem like a shortcut to you, but they can be an open door to a previously closed off room for other people.
The Takahashi 60mm telescope is over $1000. A good go to mount is another two to three thousand. Then you need digital cameras, laptop, hardware, software, looking at a minimum of $6,000, and most of my Astrophotography friends tell me they are all over $10k. But their images are absolutely amazing!
I saw an iOptron AstroBoy 70mm refractor on eBay for $100, and adding a ZWO camera to it might be $100 more. Obviously the value-add here is computer integration knowledge: it's just a matter of how much it's worth to you versus doing some of the work yourself. If you have the knowledge, but not the money, it's a no-brainer; likewise if you have money and need something self-contained. I could see this being very useful in a kiosk-type situation hooked up to a cheap Android tablet. If I were running, say, a science class or museum, it might be worthwhile.
@@Boxxkarr I think this is marketed more at the Tasco crowd than the Takahashi crowd. Someone with good computer knowledge and patience to wait for good deals could easily build something better themselves for less than $1000, and it would likely be more future-proof than this.
I like your channel, I have a full goto telescope and numerous eye pieces, I cannot comment on the see star but I have the Dwarf 11 and I’ve been impressed with the images it captures. I do agree that it’s early days with smart telescopes but if people like myself didn’t buy one then smart telescopes will not progress
That was a very thorough review! Thank you! I think it's helpful that people know what they are getting in this scope. I use mine as sort of a visual bridge between a telescope and an astrophotography set up. I can see details in my Bortle Class 6 sky I couldn't otherwise see very easily (with a scope I can transport and afford): shapes and details of galaxies, colors and details in planetary nebula, colors of stars in clusters, etc. And I can view a new object every 10-20 minutes! I can't afford a full astrophotography setup (and don't want to spend hours processing an image the next day). For $500, less than the cost of a TeleVue eyepiece or an Asiair Mini + Field Flattener, I can see things I couldn't easily see otherwise! Plus I have images to share with people the next day and get them interested and excited in the hobby. These scopes will get better, and if we support the companies with their products now, the companies will be around to put out improved projects in the future!
I know someone with a good AP rig. He needs a large SUV to transport all the pieces. He has wires all over the place and either a 4.5 reflector or 10” SCT. He has so many devices including a laptop that he needs a generator to power everything. Getting pictures and stacking them takes hours and all this equipment cost more than $10,000. Of course the final product is vastly superior to a Seestar. You get what you pay for. The Seestar is all in one and very portable. The longer people wait the more likely the price will go up not down. The Seestar is a good start. And way cheaper than a rig that requires trunk loads of equipment.
Clickbait clearly. It’s not that good is completely relative. To someone new to astrophotography its a great scope. To someone who wants the convenience and portability its a great scope. To someone who wants to do it all themselves and doesnt mind spending hours and hours setting everything up and on processing time, its not that good.
I have been into astronomy all my life. Purchased my first telescope at about 13 years old. 62 years old now. I recently had a fall. Left arm and shoulder destroyed, will never be the same. Had to retire and am thinking about EAA. Maybe setting up a permanent rig. Any recommendations on how or where to learn the skill. Always done visual astronomy. I am not interested in astrophotography.
The Seestar S50 is not a good $500 telescope. It is a great $399 telescope. Because that is what I just paid for my Seestar S50 on Amazon. It is the best $399 I have ever spent.
I think it's a good scope for only $500. I can observe objects which are impossible to see with my C8 (visually) in less than 10 mins. Very portable and easy to use.
i dont think that the images not looking special is the point. you say with conventional astrophotography, but conventional astrophotography requires you about a dozen things to get started with, if you live in the city or suburbs and the sky is bad, you need a filter . then there is the whole business of taking flats, stacking which is not easy. the taking images part itself is pretty easy with software like NINA, which allows you to automatize everything. these are just fantastic for carrying it around when you're travelling and in very dark spots where it'll shine.
We have known people that have spend thousands of dollar on astrophotography equipment and after a couple years or even less they got tired of the amount of work it takes setting up and breaking the system down, and dragging it back inside. No every one can afford their own observatory. In time their equipment sets in storage or in the corner at most being taken out ,if then, one or two times a year. The Dwarf II and the SeeStar S50 has made observing fun again. Takes little time to set up and the picture are no terrible. Been doing this so long we remember the days of film astrophotography. Had someone been turning out images like one gets with these smart telescope of deepsky objects you would have be considered an advanced astrophotographer. What Ed is doing is like comparing a Ford Festa to Maserati. Of course the Maserati is going to be far superior. Then again the Ford Festa will get you from point A and b and back again in some general relative comfort and doesn't brake the bank.
You are comparing apples to oranges. The Seestar is a beginner’s Electronically Assisted Astronomy (EAA) device and not a dedicated astrophotography system. If you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree it will always be judged a failure. It is not going to be able to match your bespoke astrophotography rig that costs five or ten times as much. It is democratizing Astronomy, and will inevitably lead some folks from EAA into astrophotography. Yes, it is a first generation devise, but there is no need to wait.
So basically all I hear is if you're not spending $3,000 or more trying to piece together a whole setup as a beginner and not doing it "like we had to learn it" then I don't like it, it's junk, don't get it..... $500 for the seestar is a great price for everything it dies. As a newbie I love mine. It is doing everything I have wanted it to do to learn about astrophotography. This is actually going to lead me into a better setup
@@RobotSnake exactly! The same crotchety old dopes that sit in the forums and bitch about ZWO ruining the hobby, not lugging a laptop to the field to use NINA is doing it wrong and blah blah blah… “It was hard for me so it should be hard for you!” Seems like a truly Luddite mentality… I highly doubt if these same a-holes are driving model T’s and heating their house with a wood burning stove… but it sounds like they should be. ‘Purists’ are the true hobby killer in any thing…
You're comparing apples and oranges, Ed, and it's not a fair or valid comparison. Seestar is amazing, especially for $500. Discouraging people from the hobby isn't attractive. 'If you wait they'll get better' is not a good or valid reason to not do the hobby. We do this b/c we enjoy it, and a lot of people are getting a lot of enjoyment using the S50. Don't minimize the 'I took this photo' value of the Seestar. You took this video with $30k in astronomy gear behind you, and that's is a tell. Seestar is amazing. If you aren't getting more than $500 worth of fun out of it, the problem is not with the telescope.
I have an S50, a Dwarf, and over $10K in conventional astrophotography equipment. There is no question that the overall image quality is better with the full rig. But, I enjoy using the two smart scopes. Setting up a heavy EQ mount, leveling, balancing, polar alignment, calibrating the guiding, focusing, etc, is a pain. I won't even try it on a weeknight when I have to work the next day. The S50 can be set up easily in a few minutes. It allows me to image on nights when I otherwise cannot. Stacking and processing the images yourself yields much better images than the app. I think $500 is a bargain for this. My EQ mount alone costs more than 3x as much. When I am able to use my full rig, it produces great images. But, I find myself using the smart telescopes more often, and it allows more overall time to enjoy the hobby.
Absolutely agree. The s50 is amazing.
This is 100% where they shine, ok quality with super convenience. I’ve just got a 5” newt on a cheap EQ mount but I won’t bother packing it up and going out on a weeknight, and if the weather is questionable at all on a weekend I won’t bother either. Lots of setup, packing, aligning, maybe collimating, just to not even get a clear sky. When all I have to do is get out of the car and get set up in 1 minute, the lower time investment would mean I’d spend lots more time out there in the field than I do now.
good point, the more gear i have to set up the more reluctant i am to set up. And the wise gods always say the best scope is the one you use the most.
Seems like S50 would make a good travel scope being all self contained, too.
I agree I find it also teaches me thing that will help with my big rig finding Targets is amazing.
Can only comment on the Seestar, but for £500 it punches well above its weight, and you are hardly paying a premium, it’s hard to put together anything comparable yourself for that price. Sure, it doesn’t perform as well as my 90mm guided triplet refractor/cooled camera on a heavy EQ mount, but it has the huge advantage that I can use it immediately when there is a break in the clouds. My big rig has been sat in the garage for months due to awful weather. I had a total window of about 1 hour clear sky this week spread over two nights, managed to image PonsBrooks with the Seestar whereas I would still have been setting up my big rig when the clouds returned. At the £500 price point I think they are a worthwhile introduction to the hobby for newbies, and for more seasoned practitioners a good way of doing some imaging when it just isn’t practical to set up a “proper” rig. The old adage “ your best scope is the one you use the most” rings true here. No reason not to early adopt at the £500 price point. Now the more expensive smart scopes, that’s a different story…
THIS is the truth, the s50 is an awesome piece of hardware
I second this opinion!
Really glad that I've held off buying any of these smart telescopes as the quality of the DSO images has proved to leave much to be desired and instead I'm slowly adding to my savings ready for a future date when I might buy a future but better model as Ed hopes may come out. I like the usefulness of the SeeStar etc for imaging the Moon and Sun in moments of opportunity but am fortuate to have already put to use a repurposed old Alt-Az mount (SkyWatcher Merlin from around 2012), spare ASI178MC and RedCat for solar and lunar imaging that more than matches the quality of the SeeStar and which too can be set up at a moment's notice. For me £500 is the best part of a year's savings in the hobby so it's not to be spent on a snap decision. To my way of thinking all the frenetic early adopters may encourage ZWO and others to make improved models down the line.
@@stevenickolls8016you are right, the Seestar isn’t as good as a “ proper” rig in terms of image quality, but if you stack and process the subs yourself, rather than take the final output from the device, you can get some pretty pleasing results. And as I said, being up and running literally within a few minutes is something no traditional rig can match unless you are fortunate enough to have a permanent observatory. If I had to rely on my traditional rig I’d have no images at all from the past few months.
I have ummed and arred about splashing out on a 'proper' rig but you're spot on. The cost, effort and time spent learning will not reward me fast enough. The SeeStar does that for me. For 500 quid, its a no brainer.
I've been an astronomer for nearly 60 years. I love my 12" Geoptik Dob with the Nexus DSC. I don't have the patience & inclination to set up a full A/P rig, and of course there's the price! I can see a great market for people like me, that love their visual work, but would like to dabble in A/P. The Seestar and/or Dwarf 11 are perfect for this. Beginners in astronomy would also find these scopes as a great incentive. Too many newbies buy scopes, attempt to use them to find any object. And apart from the Moon, they fail. The scope goes into a wardrobe and a budding astronomer goes to waste. At least these smart scopes are a lot more user friendly, and will yield results on the first night/day. In conclusion, Ed is correct in his thoughts, but I feel a little harsh in his conclusion. My two cents
I think they will equally land into people's wardrobe once their wife will tell them that google image gets better result with less efforts. And since they haven't made any effort and invested any time in their newfind consumer's hobby, they will end up agreeing. To me, for newbies, this is just some disposable toys. For your use, I agree it's probably great. But the bigger picture, I have to agree with Ed : it's just more ejunk
Get Hubble pictures. Sorted.
I totally agree with you and I bought the Seestar for exactly the same reasons.
Ed standing in room full of expensive gear saying Seestar is no good is like Jay Leno standing in his garage and saying my car is crap and I should wait until I can afford a few hundred grand.
He is right. People who bought strain gear mounts 7-8 years ago, regretted.
@@anata5127 There's an awful lot of dead LX200s out there, too.
That's completely wrong. The points he raises are just facts, not opinion influenced by high tech stuff. You just can't get the performance out of a small refractor that you can get out of a larger cheap reflector.
@@testboga5991Yeah I mean just because it can’t perform as well as a bigger scope is no reason not to buy one. At $500 I could make incredible photos when I can’t even afford a decent camera for my reflector for the same price. Then I’d need a decent EQ mount better than my EQ-2. That’s the cost of 4 Seestar S50s. Sure that would do better but what’s the point? I’d have way way more fun with a $500 smart scope than I would with a $3000 traditional imaging setup. I still keep my reflector around for observing planets and for higher magnification views of the sun.
Right a cheap Tak!
Thank you for the review. I have a Seestar and have some observations to share as a total amateur.
1. The battery is very user replaceable. It sits behind a door on the bottom held closed with a screw.
2. The Seestar is a bit hit and miss with a few things, but for the most part there is no need to adjust the level any more as it has an "auto level / Horizon function". But it does need to be able to have a good view of the sky as it uses several stars, compass, gyroscopes, view of the horizon to get level. Works well most of the time.
3. With it zooming in too far. There is a mosaic mode in the pipeline, so it should be able to stich together large objects, increasing the relative resolution/detail etc.
4. The Seestar is also good for watching wildlife remotely. No need to be cold/hot in a hide when in theory you can sit in your house, car, motorhome etc whilst capturing video or stills live onto a screen size of your choice. It can also be broadcast on the internet.
There are lots more features not explained in the video and I cant type for ever :)
mosaic mode would be good.
It's an interesting viewpoint Ed! As an avid early adopter I both agree and disagree :-)
The Seestar, once you takes the raw images off the scope and stack/process them yourself, gives very solid results - even on more difficult targets from Tokyo (!). I've had a lot of fun processing its images, and its dualband filter for emission nebulae isn't bad!
The small FOV is a compromise as well due to field rotation, although that gets much better once you mount the Seestar un equatorial mode (not officially supported and has its limitations, but it works - it does go back to what you said: wait for better smart scopes to come out).
As you mention the onboard processing is indeed limited to a very simple unweighted stacking algorithm and effectively an autostretch. This can and will ve optimized, although how far can "autoprocessing" go in the short term is another question.
And yes, after 15 minutes you won't see much improvement, since the next doubling in SNR will come after a further 45 minutes of imaging :-) But that's for astrophotography in general!
By the way you dont really need the leveler anymore - the Seestar now has a three point alignment routine that takes care of misleveling. Although some people have issues with the TPA routine and still need the leveler.
To me what is truly incredible with the Seestar is that I can plop it down, and 1 minute later I'm imaging. 5 minutes later I could clearly see the corkscrew structure of M27. From Tokyo. For $500. It's a unique experience.
The best compliment on the Seestar I get in the comments of my videos is "It's AI generated images" or "It downloads the images from the Internet". Having seen the raw frames I know for a fact it's not true, but this kind of accusation is actually high praise.
Main issues for me with the Seestar is the dithering every 5 frames that adds a lot of overhead, the poor tracking near zenith, and the high rejection rates of subframes. Most of those get fixed by using it in EQ mode (unsupported :-( ) and using 30s subframes.
And yes, the landfill aspect. I'm worried about this too because even though the battery is replaceable, the tech will get obsolete...
Oh, and I personally don't think smart telescopes will end up getting better results than traditional means - near equal, sure, but not better. Traditional means are also advancing at a fast pace! In a way, your waiting advice applies to some of the traditional gear too :-)
Totally agree with you Cuiv. I have only been in this hobby a couple of years but give me a go to mount, my refractor or SCT and a nice astro camera. I personally love the hands on approach (even though I use a ASIAir) and post processing my images! These new systems may be good to get even more interested in the hobby, but I don’t think they can ever produce better images than a more traditional approach. Dr B from Manitoba, Canada 🇨🇦
This is a non elitist point of view.
Thank you Cuiv.
Yes, with 10k worth of gear, a night and a half a day of processing you can get a better image.
Not all of us have the time or money to do that.
I agree with Cuiv. I love EAA and I like to see quick results, it’s so satisfying. Even though I have an 8” scope and camera, I’ve only attempted EAA or that plus some very quick post touch up to improve color, contrast, etc. I’m thinking of getting the s50 as it will be much easier to set up and start imaging than my big scope which always takes at least 30 minutes.
@martynh5410
I like to let the seestar "cook" while I fart around with visual on my 150mm mak or my 80mm F8 refractor.
When I stop to give my "working eye" a break, I'll give the seestar a new target (usually something i simply can't see with a glass enhanced mk1 eyeball) and let it chew on that and get back to lookin'
It has its place.
I wish Ed had teamed up with Cuiv. Together they would have made this review. . .credible! (Go Lazy Geek😂!!)
I agree that Smart Telescopes are exciting. I disagree that one shouldn’t buy them now. Two nights ago, I viewed 19 objects, 12 of which I could never really see on my 80mm refractor or 8” SCT in my Bortle 8 area. The $500 I spent for the scope was equal to one of my Delos lenses and one UHC filter. It was money VERY well spent. I agree that the products will get better and less expensive (less than $500 ? Really???) over time. I plan to happily upgrade when that happens. In the meantime, I will enjoy all of my equipment, including the SeeStar.
After 2 hours with Seestar while seated comfortably in my car I've seen more than during previous 12 months of using optical telescope when staying out during cold nights. This is a gamechanger.
I bought one last week and it’s fantastic. I highly recommend it. It’s worth way more to me than the $500 I paid for it. It’s so light weight and convenient and the setup is so quick. My only complaint is 1: too many cloudy days and 2: starlink satellites
if everyone waits, there'll be no development. Vote for the future with your money. Agree with some items, disagree with others - comparing a $500 smart scope with a Tak priced at 4-5 times the price (once you add the extras needed to do imaging, camera, filters, dew heater, PC) is off the mark.
4-5 times? Think more 10-15 times..
There junk and should be regulated to the trash bin
I’m with you Randy, we have a product that is reachable by many and opens their eyes. I don’t care if the magnification is bad, they plug it in and get something they feel proud about sharing. If they went down the rat hole of Astrophotography, it would be years before they could share something proudly.
@@Bridse.Agreed! How many people have been turned off the hobby by mass produced junk visual scopes? By big names too! At least these will give them a somewhat decent result!
explain why @@johnhoffer5429
I’m having fun with my Seestar, isn’t that what it’s all about, having fun? I’m in the process of selling thousands of $$’s of astro gear I’ve had for years, sitting in cases and boxes, Seestar is easy and fun.
I sold $1500 worth of rarely used imaging equipment for a new SeeStar and an updated iPad… with money left over to take my wife and daughters out for sushi and a movie.
Well worth the change.
This is a very apples and oranges, biased review. some comments: stacking; the Seestar has the option to save all separate frames. Stacking can be done in external programs like Siril. Even over multiple sessions. Same for processing and filtering. You cannot compare the present smart telescopes with true astrophotography setups that cost thousands of dollars. Nobody expects astrophotography or indeed Hubble or JWSL quality. The green background is caused by the internal filter, there are aftermarket products to install the best filters available. Can you take one the the devices in the back of Ed's room safely on your bicycle and cycle to a dark spot to start a short observation session before the clouds come in?
Doesn't it feel like you're just using mouse clicks to lead to a picture of fixed quality, less than what you can already get online? Do you feel like you've created an image when you're done? That's where I struggle. Yeah, Ed's full Takahashi rig was an absolutely silly comparison regarding picture quality, even if he just meant to illustrate what's possible, or what modern amateur astronomers expect, but what about that sense of creativity? I see astrophotography as a creative art, and the Seestar seems to take over all creative aspects of that art, leaving the operator as someone who just pushes the buttons to get the predictable, limited result, available only on their screen. Am I missing something? A lot of people seem to like it, so maybe I'm a noob who doesn't get it. I haven't bought my 1st scope yet, and I want to learn. School me if you see something I don't. 🙂
@@beenaplumber8379
You can't go to a place with a really dark sky every night, not even every weekend.
The seestar let's you enjoy your hobby without having to set up everything, and just enjoy taking pictures of the moon, or the sun, or just some deep sky objects.
If you want to use your creativity, you can still go out with your astrophotography equipment and take that beautiful pictures.
Both options complement each other, not the other way around.
@@Mystearica Thanks much for the reply. I'm actually ok with limited photo quality. Right now I use a Sony Alpha 6100 with a 210 mm kit lens on a cheap photo tripod. That's it. No filters added or removed, just a lotta ISO and a lotta hunting by memory. (And a lotta stacked 1 sec exposures.) I want a scope, and I can't afford much, and the Seestar has a great price tag. I could get that or a Dobs, with total control of everything and even worse photo quality but real viewing quality. It's another ridiculous comparison - the Seestar vs the Dobs. They do opposite things. I'd like something in the middle, but then I have to spend $1k - $2k, more if I want a decent mount. A cell phone with gyros and accelerometers would be nice, even with my camera so I could use that kind of star-finding app.
I get it though - even packing up my cheap camera gear on a clear night to find a dark sky is a chore.
When you get to a remote location, what do you set it on? Do you bring a table? All I can think of is putting it on the top of my car, but that's hardly stable or level.
@@Mystearica I just wanted to share this with you - I just watched a video about remote observing (renting space in a dark sky observatory and operating the telescope online, the way I think professional astronomers do). I think that idea felt a lot like using something like the Seestar. Sure, it's all on a computer screen. Sure, the coordinates are already worked out, but I think I'm starting to understand how it really is like modern astronomy.
Completely agreed. For example I am going to Turkey end of this Summer and next year winter to New Zealand to capture Magellanic cloud from the Southern hemisphere. The mobility is the most important thing for me.
I wish to personally thank all of those who purchased the rev1 of the SeeStar, thus solidifying the line's future. I will be seriously interested when the SeeStar II comes out :)
Here's the thing though.
Ed is reviewing the SeeStar from the lens of an experienced Astrophotographer and telescope guy. He isn't the target market.
The SeeStar, in my opinion, is not geared towards those users who already have a proper Astrophotography rig unless they know exactly what they are getting with a SeeStar and just want one for the very casual use.
The SeeStar is geared more to those who would like to get into casual astro but don't have the time, money or abilities to set a proper rig up.
yes why cant the most serious ones leave us casuals alone?
You should watch what a lot of other 'experienced astrophotographers' had to say about it and then you'll realise that not only is this man wrong, he's seriously bitter and somewhat delusional.
@@jenni5104 makes me wonder if trad astrophotographers are part of the flat earthers hm
The thing is, I don't care that the images aren't that great. I'm not an astrophotographer and am not trying to be. I spent $400 (pre-order) to very easily see things I would otherwise not be able to see. I hope someday I can get out in dark skies with a big dob, but it's not happening right now. The Seestar is really fun! Maybe if you've been involved with telescopes / astronomy / astrophotography for a long time, you're not impressed; and I'm sure the criticisms will help companies improve, but as an astronomy noob and regular customer, I love mine. And I'm excited to see where they go from here!
Except that the images ARE great. I agree with you that the s50 is really fun. Fantastic tool at a miracle price.
Correct! It is for people who have no experience in astrophotography or have no space to do so.
@@gomcseGreat compared to what?
Well said. I have been attracted to watch the sky/astral objects from my middle school (30 years ago) and dreamed to have my telescope for 20 years after worked, but I never have one because living in an unban city plus shortage of personal time/space plus the size/weight of the devices limited the dream. Seestar released me, now I can go to the top of my apartment building everyday (if weather allowed) to get a picture of something I had only seen in website AND watch that part of sky by my eyes to imagine what it actually like. With Seestar I watched sky more frequency. That is why I really appreciate ZWO and similar companies who can target the customers like me.
I would not have started the story about the Seestar with "It's not that great". Sets a negative tone before understanding your POV. At $499 it's equivalent to the 60mm department store telescope from the 1960s. And factoring in inflation, it's about the same price. It's all about Electronically Assisted Astronomy, or as it is called; EAA. You will see more in a short stack of images, than anything visual through a small telescope in an urban location. I could not see M82 at all in my $10,000 refractor through a $400 premium eyepiece from my B9 location, but the Seestar captured it digitally in only a few minutes. Now to be fair, there are other smartscopes in the $3000 to $4000 range that do seem over-priced, but the little Seestar at $499 is a great value as a gateway telescope into the wonderful hobby of amateur astronomy.
Again, if we can all be a little patient and wait, these devices will only get better with time. Technology moves very fast in this arena.
Wait means don't buy...not really a good way to encourage development to me...@@edting
@@reginaldwilkins5112 Why do you want to pay for their R&D? Like you don't need to, this is a private market, the companies are going to develop this technology whether you pay for the R&D or not so like just save the money and wait until a $500 scope gets you three times as much.
@@edting sort of the "don't bother me with other,salient aspects, my thinking on this is done...approach😢"?!
@@edting but ZWO has presently done the right thing by establishing a new market with a new customer base. I guarantee you if I were to buy this unit and show case the ease of use, minimal time commitment, while performing chores inside your house or watching shows, you're going to have a lot of buy in from from non-astronomers.
With that said, I'm not in a rush to buy. I'm confident ZWO has a second version in the works, but I already see my use case having immediately benefit when the time comes.
Ed, how much was your Takahashi astrophotography setup? Was it more than $499?
But one doesn't need a Tak FS-60C to get comparable images. A good 60mm ED doublet AND a guide camera can be had for $500.
Getting a good mount at that budget will be a challenge though. Something like an used Celestron AS-GT can be had but it will be far bulkier (but much more useful at the same time.)
If I read you correctly once you ad a mount and an imaging camera you're definitely above 500$ at the cheapest.
@@hcm5467 To squeeze within the $500 budget the mount will be one of the cheapest GOTO models (and to go with a cheaper OTA) and I really wouldn't recommend that. Going with the equipment I suggested before will end up somewhat above $500 but the components are higher quality and more versatile.
Since everyone wants a strain wave mount one can get lucky with used but good GOTO GEM mounts for far less than when they were new.
Ok so let's compare the seestar to your 60 mm doublet with guide scope and no mount since it's the same price. I'm willing to bet the seestar gets much better results.
@@APRH305 AVX could be bought for 400-500.
Ed, sir I watch your videos because of your expertise. But somehow you missed the mark on the S50 review. The Seestar images are so much more than the jpg it sends to your phone. With the option to download the fits files, and process them with your favorite astrophotography editing software, the images are so much better than that jpg. Even if you don't download all the sub images, just simply processing the jpg with your phone photo editor turns even the Horsehead Nebula into a nice image. So for $500 can you assemble a rig that does equally as good as the S50? Not a chance.
I've owned an Evolution 9.25 SCT for almost a year. I love it. The number of things I've viewed with it since buying it is extremely slim compared to the number of objects I've seen and imaged with the Seestar since buying it in late January. With the Seestar, I've now photographed 77 of the 110 Messier objects, almost another hundred of the NGC, SH2, and other catalogs. I've even captured three supernovas, five comets, and three quasars, all with the S50. One of the quasars I captured is almost 10 billion light years away. Show me any $500 telescope where that is possible. Tell me the least expensive rig you own that will capture a quasar 10 billion light years away. I'm sure it's well above $500 and not as easy to set up. I can be imaging in about 2 minutes from the time I decide to take the S50 outside. How long does it take to move that Tak and setup? If you're going to compare the S50 to the Tak, let's discuss mobility, ease of use, etc.
if you have a site i would love to see your images! this is a really compelling option but naturally this review leaves me concerned. i'd happily pay double for a larger sensor with a wider FOV, so maybe i'll wait... but i would love to see the quality you can get with processing yourself
Agree with your comment. Love Ed's videos and opinions, but he did miss the mark here. I have always been heavily against smart telescopes but the S50 offers incredible value per dollar. Nothing will perform as well at the 500 dollar price point. This thing would be a steal even at the 1000 dollar price point just based on ease of use alone. Dare I say - this is the best astronomical product to come out within the past 10, maybe even 20 years. The price simply cannot be beat!
Yes, my Seestar has limitations. But I also have a Celestron Nexstar 6 that sees a fraction of the Seestar's use. I realized I needed a Kia, not a Porshe. I can easily hop in the car with my son, Sagan, drive a few minutes with the Seestar and show him live images in seconds. The excitement of even having the app add clarity with each stacked image keeps him tuned in and asking questions. For me, that's a huge win. Finally, you're correct in that the on-device processing leaves a lot to be desired and the FoV is too narrow. But, I'm seeing users create fantastic mosaics in post and leveraging color correction to create impressive images. As good as a $5k rig for the guy who has a lot of time and money? Of course not. But what a wonderful and reasonably priced device to drive interest in astronomy.
For an old guy like me, flailing for 20 years with a Meade Newtonian and a Celestron refractor, I'm happy with my DwarfLab2 with its tiny, grainy images and frustrating operating system. At least I'm seeing things, in Bortle 7 suburban skies, the cloudy PNW, which has really increased my appreciation of what is up there! Must be my old-guy-novice limited expectations, not at all ambitious, but still fun at this stage. And I don't have any "aperature envy!"
Hey I'm curious about what you said. Based on what I've seen, the Dwarf is a really weird product. I'm not alone in that assessment?
@@edting depends... Unlike SeeStar it has much wider FOV for good and for worse. Of course SeeStar better product and it is killing Dwarf.
I love my Dwarf, it as a few growing pains, but the positives far, far out weigh any negatives. I will be shooting the eclipse with it and have taken to a bortle 2 area. It takes all of a couple of minutes to set up in astronomy mode.
@@edting
@@edting yes it's weird, but as I mentioned, fun for the limited expectations. It's like the first time I saw a prism in the optical path of a monocular, or the first time I used my little Meade Newtonian: not intuitive, making the ability to see anything at all surprising and delightful!
The portability of the dwarf is its ace in the hole, seestar gets you better images but I just returned from Japan (organized tour) a
nd brought my dwarf in my carry on. Imaged on 3 clear nights under bottle 3-4, much better than my bottle 8-9 at home!!
I have Bortle 4 skies. Through my £700 10" Dobsonian I cannot see the spiral structure of spiral galaxies. Through my £500 Seestar S50 I can see the spiral structure... with just one 10 second exposure.
Human eyes are not sensitive bring a camera to ur 10 then talk
@@Talalpro_1 What mount and camera do you suggest I get to allow me to image galaxies with my 10" Dobsonian?
You make a great point! My 8SE was great for the moon, planets and double stars, but everything else was a big disappointment. Just a lot of fuzzy blobs. I'm strongly considering a Seestar to open up the rest of the universe for me.
@@JimJimJimJim99 you dont need to listen to him
@@JimJimJimJim99Get an EQ platform and a ZWO 585MC.
Life is short Ed. I have 5 friends here in Columbus, Ohio that have them. The results are always stunning. No issues. There will always be something better coming. Just like computers. The Seestar is more than ready right now.
Well Ed, seriously you missed the point of the 500usd seestar. I can put the seestar in my dads hands for the first time and 5minutes later he is totally amazed... try that with any usual highend rig...
Ed, I dont think they are meant to be compared to an actual rig…You cannot compare these devices like Seestar and Dwarf with a traditional rig at all. That isnt what they are meant to be. I think they are geared as a ‘gateway drug’ into astro. I have a big set up that I have spent WAY too much money on… and it is beautiful, and takes beautiful images. About 10k in, which is a lot for me! I bought a Dwarf 2 last year, just for fun, for 500 bucks… and it is fun! Hassle free! I did a head to head on the Heart Nebula, after post processing the Dwarf data it was a pretty good image, not as good as my 94 edph Sharpstar of course, but honestly there isnt a 9500 dollar difference… with the right processing they are quite powerful little devices considering the amount of money you arent spending on them! When I first got into astronomy I bought a Celestron 114 Astromaster, it was 300 bucks and probably the worst scope ever created!!! Spending 500 on a smart scope like this would have been a way better entrance into astro… companies like Celestron should be ashamed for putting out trash products like they do, how many people have been completely turned off of astronomy due to these horrible scopes??? Countless!!! I have not heard one bad word about these cheap smart scopes from any beginner, they love them and it makes them fall in love with astronomy… WIN WIN!
I was hoping he would compare the images to his 8" Dob and his smartphone.
"I think they are geared as a ‘gateway drug’ into astro." That's exactly my problem with them. Looking through a screen is going to significantly dilute the experience. This thing isn't meant to compete with traditional astrophotography equipment, it's competing with regular telescopes. If you compare it to a similarly priced real telescope you'll find it to be severely lacking.
They will make the hobby worse overall. People don't know what they want. They're allured by pretty photos but once they get a telescope and see the universe with their own two eyes they'll realize what it's all about. If they start with this glorified cellphone app it's going to stunt their long-term interest in the hobby.
@@Top_Weeb I think it is filling a completely different niche, EAA… so neither traditional visual scopes nor astrophotography. It is a different category all together. A traditional scope cannot show you the detail in deep space objects that these devices are capable of capturing. I really think it is the dso category made popular by Hubble and JWST that the average consumer wants to see, not the fuzzy blobs that you get with a traditional scope. Again, I do not think these are at all geared towards anyone who is already established in astronomy or astrophotography. These are hassle free devices that anyone can use to see some of the amazing objects in the night sky.
@@Top_Weeb I think some will… but some will want more, some will take the next step and invest real money in good equipment. How much damage have the heavily marketed junk scopes from Celestron and other manufacturers done over the years to this hobby??? At least these devices do what they say can do. I think they are a fine way for the average person to get involved with astronomy. I know many who are using these devices for public outreach with great success and a great reaction from average folks! Dwarf Labs has given away countless units to those who are using them for public outreach, that is a phenomenal thing for a manufacturer to do! I dont see Astro Physics or Tak or even Skywatcher or Celestron doing things like this to engage people and bring them into the hobby. Kudos to them!
I've been an amateur astronomer since 1975, performing several hundred star programs using some great optics. Lugging all this stuff around was a real chore, setting it up was a pain, and the investment was thousands of dollars. The first time a "point and shoot" telescope came on the market I bought one, for years to come I spent more time enjoying star gazing because it was easier to do it. I would tell my audiences that the best telescope to have is one you will use, not hide away in the closet because it's too much work to set up for an hour or two of viewing.
I think the ZWO Seestar S50 is a good solution for anyone, new or advanced amateur, to enjoy astronomy. The setup is easy, weighs very little, and doesn't cost thousands to image the Sun, Deep Sky Objects, the Moon (a favorite with my audiences), etc. Looking in my equipment closet at $$$$$ of astronomy gear, I wish this scope was around when I started. Thumbs Up!
What is it good at? Seeing tons of things I'll never see with my 9.25 SCT while having to squint through an eyepiece.
Not really comparable
your SCT can collect more light and image better. Eye piece viewing and imaging isn't comparable. Not even hubble or JWST
Your comparisons of the SeeStar vs the Takahashi are incomplete and that is unfortunate. Specifically, you compare internally processed Seestar images with externally processed Takahashi ones. If you truly wanted to make fair comparisons, you should have externally processed the raw SeeStar FITS images through the identical flow you used for the Takahashi. This would have been a more objective approach and the results would have been much closer in final image quality.
Give these devices a few generations; they'll give the Taks of the world a run for their money. Using the FITS files won't make that much difference given the current state of the product. It's also a non-intuitive process and it's something that should be streamlined in the app.
@@edting I leant mine to my Gran a few weeks back, as she has always had a passing interest in Astro. She was able to operate it without issue and loved the results (she even had a play around with a little post processing in Siril). I'm struggling to understand what exactly you found so challenging?... You turn it on, you point, you shoot.
@@edting You seriously expect the automatic stacking in the telescope to be as good as PixInsight?
Do you not know that PixInsight with the Xterminator add-ons is just as expensive as the whole telescope?
You can’t be serious!
Yeah and Takahashi is a completely overrated piece of crap for what you pay. Way way overpriced. it reminds me of these academic beanheads who buy BMWs. Another piece of crap jut buying it for the name. The word Snob snob snob comes to mind in this review from ed...
It is a good way to get people interested and then they can upgrade if they decide the results are not good enough. If we all held off of buying a smart scope, waiting for the design to improve, then it never would, it would just die a death because the manufacturers would think there was no market for them.
Thats funny. Takahashi FS60 ~770$, plus you'll need mount, tracker, and some patience, to build this up in the field. And, ofc, you'll need to bring all this weight to some dark place.
On the other hand, we have a lightweight setup, that combines all that things, that you can always have in the trunk and when you have a dark sky - use it.
Yes, images directly stacked by the seestar, looks not so good, but well, on conventional setups, you don't have even that. So you would spend some time to manually process images from the both sides. Field of view, yep, not that good, but vaonis vespera already fixed it with mosaic mode, and ZWO promises to add that feature too.
Seestar was realeased just recently, and ofcourse it needs to be fixed in some issues. But it's impressive for me already.
Ed, as you can tell by the comments to your video, you've completely missed the mark. HUGE kudos to ZWO for putting together a complete solution for viewing and photographing DSOs. For every person out there who wants to go through the steep and expensive learning curve for traditional scopes, then put their frankenstein assemblies in a closet, I'll bet there are dozens of people who simply want to view the stars. It's almost like you didn't really use it. You looked for silly nits like "E-waste" when users throw this away in favor of next gen solutions. Really Ed? What did you do with your last car? Please tell me you kept it.
It was truly an embarrassing review. He just has some bug up his ass about these type of products and then he sets up a comparison between his 10,000 dollar rig and a 500 dollar one. Very flawed review.
I’ve had my Seestar for a week now. I had nearly left the hobby due to issues with eyesight, lifting heavy gear and pure fiddle factor. From what I have observed, the Seestar overcomes all of these issues at an affordable price point. Certainly it has its limitations but it seems that it does, in fact, collect adequate enough data on a significant number of DSOs to produce very acceptable images with post-processing. One minor correction: the internal battery is user-replaceable and this is easily accomplished.
My $450 smart telescope got me laid. Money well spent
Respectfully, there are quite a few things that can be improved on the Seestar, but the things you mention aren't it's major short comings in my experience. I have the feeling you haven't done much EAA/live stacking with something like SharpCap before, because the Seestar very much resembles that experience but in much more streamlined way:
* the performance - the performance in my experience is identical to say a Redcat 50 paired with an ASI462MC (yes the redcat is a Petzval but for a sensor this small that won't matter). But what you get is a) cheaper and b) much more portable. You would need more glass to get better performance, that's just physics and we all know aperture fever and the downsides that come with that.
* the color balance - every picture you show has the telltale messed up star colors of a duo narrowband filter. This happens on a conventional AP rig too if you use such a filter. It is a godsend if you live in a Bortle 7 area like me tough and I'm happy they included it out of the box. You can disable it for an unfiltered view.
* Diminishing returns is a thing with all astrophotography, you need 4x the exposure to double the signal-to-noise-ration (the "feeling" of the noise). So quality improves very quickly from one minute to 4, to 16 minutes but then you need an hour to double SNR again and after that it's going to take a good chunk of the night. A watched kettle never boils and if you're live stacking (like I often do) patience tends to wear out after say 5 minutes, maybe 15. Again with only 50mm of aperture there's only so many photons it can catch. This is not something unique to the Seestar.
* The postprocessing in the APP/device is intentionally limited, again to be able to have this near-live viewing. The math for for example pixel rejection or selecting the best sub isn't done for live stacking, simply because you have to start with the first sub and good pixel rejection algorithms or advanced normalization require looking at all the data at once, not as it comes in. And it takes a beefy machine (200W CPU with 16 cores in mine) the better part of an hour to run the data through pixinsight that the seestar has to do on-the-fly. That isn't going to change in any near future, especially with Moore's law slowing down.
For some genuine problems with the Seestar I would mention:
* the general QA (there's some lemons out there) and plastic gears
* the use of open source software in violation of it's license (just as in ASIAir)
* with 10s subs, you lose a lot of time due to the dithering in between each sub
* life expectancy of the LiPo battery and it's performance in cold weather (should have been LiFePO4 IMHO)
All in all, the best scope is the one you use most of the time, and my Seestar has been outside more than my big conventional AP rig or even my more lightweight EAA setup just because the weather doesn't allow for a 30-40 minute setup time.
Thanks for that. If you saw the whole video, my advice is to wait. These things aren't ready yet.
Ed, I love your videos, but I finally, found something I can disagree with you on, yep its the Seestar, I have a few great rigs, but recently I lost my wife, and with that any interest in astronomy or even life itself, a few years before we lost our son, and we were able to support each other, my remaining daughters were concerned about my mental health, so I got myself a little Seestar, the weather where i live seemed to be as miserable as I felt, this little gem has seen me through some of the hardest times of my life, an hour here and there, has started me on the journey of finding myself and my passion for astrophotography, once again. Obviously its never going to replace a great scope, but for those who already use apps like Pixinsight etc, have achieved great images from the raw data which is downloaded from the scope itself in single frames as FIT files, I have a disabled friend who had to give up the hobby, he just couldn't set up the equipment anymore, he's very excited at the fact he can once again enjoy the hobby, so I suppose it will find a home, and get better at what it does.
First of all, I watched at least 50 video of yours talking about telescopes and other bunch of accessories. Well, I almost spend a year watching hundreds of telescope, mount, camera, image processing, filters, focuser, polar alignment videos from other channels. All bunch of stuff will cost a lot of money and very big learning curve. I personally didn’t wanna spend much money on astrophotography rig. I didn’t wanna spend hours learning all the things I mentioned. Just for this price, this telescope is absolutely a STEAL. I really don’t care what people think about this telescope. “Oh it’s not real astrophotography.” Why do you want me to spend 5-10k$?? If the result which comes from s50 satisfies me, saves me a lot of TIME, saves me a lot of MONEY, why I wouldn’t buy such smart telescope. I ordered mine yesterday, also svbony nebula filter. Can’t wait to test this beast!!
I have four telescopes and I got a seestar s50 in January. The best telescope is the one you use and it's so easy to set up compared to my lx200 etc.. that it's the only one I've been using for the last 3 months. Ed is right, these will definitely get better over time but for $500, there's just nothing better at the moment. Also, it's such a great device to get beginners into the hobby and I can't stress that this is probably the best attribute of the Seestar.
Why do you need to replace the battery when you can attach an powerbank?
It's a light, fast to setup portable unit you can take camping.
I wonder too
The best telescope is the one you use. This telescope has changed the game and allowed ease of use for a new generation of astronomers.
Not all of us can have the Lord's budget to have 4 or 5 telescopes of all types and for all needs. For those like me who cannot spend more than US$500, the Seestar S50 is quite an achievement and a great conquest.
Every day that passes, I enjoy it more and take better photographs with said device.
I referred Ed to a couple of websites with excellent SeeStar photos, but he wanted to see what I could do. Since I don’t own astrophotography specific software, I cannot produce what people with expertise can create. His response to me implied he thought the excellent SeeStar photos were fake. Elitism exemplified.
I understand where this guy is coming from... but i think he's missing the point of this telescope. The absolute WOW factor you get from this thing for $500 is insane. Showing friends and family the photos that it is live stacking while you're looking at the object thru a conventional telescope simultaneously is an awesome experience and cannot be overstated. Also the fact that it simply needs to just be leveled and away you go is amazing and so easy. Of course a $500 telescope with a small camera sensor is not going to look as good as a $10,000-$20,000 set up. And of course the photos taken on that 10-20k set up that are pain stakingly edited in specialized software are going to look light years better. The average person doesnt even know thousands of these faint objects are in their very own sky every single night and they can unlock the ability to see this stuff with this $500 telescope. It is a great way to get them curious/amazed looking up at the sky every night and then eventually may lead them down the road of an expensive "conventional set up". I mean the set up alone and post processing needed of a conventional set up is enough to deter people from getting into astrophotography all together, let alone the prohibitive cost factor. You can pop this thing on a tripod, level it, and set it off to capture some photos that are better than 99% of people could ever imagine. If this telescope was marketed all over TV channels or the internet the number of "astrophotographers" would 10x over night because the barrier to entry is so small and you dont have to understand a thing about space to use it. And if we "wait for the better version" its likely to be more expensive. I also understand people can find all kinds of guides online for cheap used astro set ups with used mounts and used DLSR cameras etc that will take better photos but they are a hastle for a new comer to set up and figure out how to use and then forget about the post imaging processing. This thing is just taken right out of the box and taking better photos for people with ZERO SPACE OR PHOTOGRAPHY KNOWLEGE than they would get with a "traditional" set up with no knowlege on how to use the stuff.
I love my SeeStar. I have been working towards mastering my Nexstar 8se with some nights of frustration. I’m continuing with learning and plan on building towards my own rig in the future. We understand that the SeeStar isn’t nearly as good as an expensive rig with years of experience, but I think you are missing the whole point that this little, affordable device keeps the fires burning towards learning all that is possible. I’ve been able to delve into some post processing software that I would not have been possible for me without this affordable device. There have been multiple upgrades already. Instead of being such a downer, why don’t you celebrate that more people are now able to start to see the beauty in our night skies.
I have a seestar s50 that I use along with my other rigs. The images it produces are nothing spectacular compared to a proper ap setup, but it's quite amazing what it can obtain with the amount of effort involved. It is super easy to use. Sometimes, you may not feel like setting up a full rig, or maybe the sky is only clear for an hour or two, and putting the big rig out doesn't seem worth it. The seestar excels in such situations. Its ease of use can get more folks enjoying astronomy, which is wonderful! I think it is great for what it is, and the price point is fair for what you get.
In my point of view the S50 is a great tool for educational purposes. A club or even a school can probably afford to buy a set and motivate young people to do astrophotography with a nearly 100% chance of a picture where you can see something unvisible to the "naked eye". When I was young and started out with some astrophotography I was just some kind of "weird" guy spending the night out in the dark (at that time still dark..), trying to track a guide star and fighting the problems of film photography. We had to hand the films to the lab and at the end there were maybe 6 pictures in a series of 36 where the stars were pinpoint sharp, not to forget the loss of sensitivity of the emulsion, eating up the extra exposure time. What followed was an interest in visual observation, sketching once in a while what I could see in the eyepiece.
Hi Ed, I've re-watched this review a couple of more times and see your points about waiting for the next generation of "smart scopes" and the different ways the S50 falls short. A totally reasonable perspective, and I thank you for taking the time and effort to produce the video.
In several of your prior videos you'd stated that the highest compliment you can offer a scope is when you forget you're reviewing it and just "have fun". That is what the S50 has consistently done for me and my kids. I really couldn't involve (hold their attention) them while setting up my refractor rig, but with the S50 we plop it down and off we go. Nebulas, star clusters, galaxies, we search, talk, image, and Have Fun. $500 that has paid for itself several times over.
Ed's first impressions of the SeeStar sounds very reminiscent of those told to me by the owner of the Hifi store I worked at when Sony gave him a sneek peek of their first Walkman. He didn't think it was ready for prime time when he compared it to top of the line Nakamichi Dragon and Revox cassette decks of the day. 😂😂😂
undersized and inflexible
The old story of the Walkman. Have heard the same story many time like Motorola mocking Apple because they knew how to make phones!! Where are the Motorola smartphones? Where is Apple? Same with the first MO3 players. Nice to read from someone probably my age and both of us having fun with a Seestar
I love your videos. But this one is a clear miss on pretty much every point. Of course the Seestar and similar small smart telescopes are not going to give the results of a dedicated Astrophotography setup. They aren't supposed to. Your own comparison really took me aback. Why are you comparing a $500 USD all in one Smart telescope to photos taken with your FS60? That OTA alone is what? 1100? Plus camera, plus mount. Plus everything else. I would hope the photos would be better.
But lets put aside the cost. Now how long does it take to set up the FS60? How long did it take you to gather the knowledge to do it easily? How portable is that setup? A S50, or similar smart telescope are great for people who want to be able to enjoy the hobby but face various roadblocks. Don't have a lot of disposable income? Small Smart telescope is perfect. Health issues and can't move around a full size setup? Same answer. Time constraints? Takes 5 minutes to set up and get going. Not much room to store a normal setup? The thing is the size of a lunch box. Travel a lot for work and want something you can take with you while away from home for a week? Guess what. S50 again.
This is indeed the time to be buying one of these smart telescope. And you should buy the one that suits your needs, whether it be the Seestar or other end of the Spectrum like the Origin. Because that is what will drive the market. I really feel that these devices are going to help grow the hobby and we should be encouraging that not being mad because it doesn't punch above its weight class against a 2-3K setup.
This video reeks of elitism and confirmation bias which is shocking to me from Mr Ting.
ETA before anyone comes at me: I have a number of dedicated Astrophotography rigs that I love. I also have an S50 and pretty much any time I am using the others I will have the S50 going. Because why not?
Yes. My message is still the same. You need to wait. We are still in the very early part of the curve with these devices.
@@edtingEd I've seen you're getting attacked a bit on this video. I did a similar video on the Dwarf Lab some months back and got a heap of backlash. I think your points here are well made. Keep up the good work.
Confirmation bias is unusually strong among people who buy these things. I've noticed that from the beginning. It resembles religious fervor. I know someone who bought the device you mentioned. He has never gotten it to work. You still can't say anything bad about it.
@@edtingIt's quite bizarre Ed. It's like when digital pianos first came out, they were quite awful, it's taken so many generations for them to get where they are now. I think the religious fever analogy is accurate.
It's a cult. Try having a rational conversation with a Unistellar eVscope owner.
I remember buying my first PC. The professional advice was "They are not real computers, underpowered, toys, WAIT."
I didn't wait then. I'm not waiting now. Early adopters know what they are adopting. A year from now when the 3x more powerful successor to this shows up at one-third the price, guess what I will do?
Tomorrow is promised to none of us. Gotta enjoy the days we get.
Can you recommend a better scope for the money with comparable results as the s50? Us poors want to look at the sky as well.
No, he can't. His review is wrong.
Us poors should not be allowed into the hobby!!! It is carefully guarded by all the grumpy old men who spend all day yelling at kids to ‘get off their lawn!’. Just pop onto any astro forum and you can hear them spewing on about how if you arent grinding your own lenses and using paper star charts out in the field and only doing visual astro, unless you are using glass plates for imaging (thats pretty modern but acceptable) that you dont know anything! Unless you spend the cost of an average new car or even a house on scopes that they basically hold a lottery for to be able to purchase one, then you are too poor for the hobby. They closely guard this weird idea that being an amateur astronomer somehow makes them so much more intelligent and elevates them high above the rest of the unwashed masses that if even one of us dirty, stupid, poor folk slip through into the hobby then it might knock them off their self installed pedestal… shame on us!😂😂😂
You are not poor if you're spending $500 on a scope, budget beginner scopes start at $200 so if you're willing to spend more than double than that on your first telescope you are rich.
Just imagine when the Kodak Box Camera came out at the end of the 19th century some "Professional Photographer" says "it's not that good"...don't buy it...sheesh!
Another comparison of apples and pears. 500 vs 5000 USD. EAA vs astrophotography. The S50 should be better compared with Dobson scopes. The question is, what can you see with a 8 or 10" Dobson compared to the S50 under various Seeing conditions and Bortle scales. Then, we are much closer.
Btw. the reason for using a small sensor (IMX462) in the S50 is related to the limitations that an Alt/AZ mount brings with it. The larger the sensor, the bigger is the effect of field rotation, ending in oblong stars or at least blurry stars.
I'm pretty sure, that we will see more of such smart telescopes in different sizes for different purposes in the future (as we all know, there is no one-size-fits-all scope). As always, demand and price will decide it.
Agree with you completely. This is ridiculous when you don't take the price into consideration. $500 is still incredible value.
You guys are reacting with the fanatic fervour of Apple fanboys on a review that is like mildly critical.
@@hedgehog3180 "This is not for everybody" is mildly critical. "A few things about this disappoint me" is mildly critical. "Absolutely do not buy this now or in the near future" is not a mildly critical review.
No reason to landfill one of them when you are done with it. Just put a new battery in, then send to a school in South America that has an astronomy program that wants it.
I’ve got about $6,500 in my main rig. I just fell into a SeeStar for a much lower price, so I now have one. I fully understand the limitations of the SeeStar but I like the idea taking it off the backseat and showing my family what AP is and give a general idea of what I enjoy. I find no problem with owning one knowing what it’s capable. I also fully intend to process my images in PixInsight. Maybe lighten up a bit lol. Perhaps these devices will encourage others to give our hobby a chance.
To be fair, there’s a huge price difference between Ed’s Tak imaging set up and a SeeStar 50. I’d expect there to be a difference in quality. Some people with only $500 to spend might find this one of two ways to do some basic (not perfect) Astrophotography.
I agree with a few of your comments, but I disagree with many your comments. I have 4 scopes and astrophotography rigs costing many times what I paid for the Seestar and I love it. I don't think you use the Seestar very well. My images are much better than yours. The people on the Seestar user Facebook pages are having a lot of fun with this entry level smart scope, including me! Yes, the sensor is small and field rotation is limiting a single night's imaging, but we have found workarounds that let us enjoy the Seestar. If I only have one or 2 clear hours, I'm not pulling out my big rig, I'm going to have fun with the Seestar. I hope not too many people are going to be turned off by this review.
Doesn't it kinda go against the entire point of a smart scope that you have to use work arounds to get anything decent out of it? Like isn't the entire selling point of this thing convenience and the fact that you don't have to do anything to get good images?
FWIW, for the $399.00 USD cost. I am having a whole lot of fun with my Seestar S50. For ZWO, the Seestar S50 has become a world wide hit. I can't wait to see what ZWO has on the drawing room table. Perhaps a Super Seestar? With my experience with the present Seestar S50, I would order one in a heart beat.
I love the Seestar. The simplicity and wealth of information I have learnt as a beginner is unmatched. Granted you can get but results but at what cost? The review is too critical. Remember, the target audience is a beginner. For that, Seestar hits the nail on the head.
The user can replace the batteries did you read the manual?
Two nights ago, I used my SeeStar in my Bortle 8 site to view and photograph 35 deep sky targets (5-40 minutes each). 25 of these targets I had NEVER seen before at my site, even while using my $25K in astronomy gear (80mm refractor, 8" SCT, Delos eyepieces, binoviewers, IS binoculars, etc). $500 was an insignificant cost for what I saw and how quickly I could see it due to the onboard processing. Yes, I could certainly have waited for improvements in the gear and features that might be available in the future but the time value of having an improved experience NOW is incalculable. I NOW have a portable, simple, time efficient, good quality, low cost, instrument to complement the other items in my toolbox.
I have been following your reviews for many years, and have agreed (mostly) with your takes on many types of Astro equipment. However, I have to say that I’m a bit disappointed in your review of the SeeStar S50. I have been in the hobby for 40 years now and the Seestar S50 has given me renewed excitement about a hobby I had lost interest in. I have primarily been a visual observer because I find astrophotography an expensive and tedious part of the hobby. Most importantly, the IMMEDIACY of the imaging, and being able to share pics in “real time” with my grandchildren has gotten them very excited about the hobby. They were able to easily navigate the Seestar App and take pics of their own….this was a game changer for them. A standard astrophotography setup may achieve better results, but it certainly doesn’t generate the excitement that the immediacy of the Seestar achieves. Imho, it is well worth the $499.
Good point. Obviously for you, you made the right choice.
@@edting Thanks Ed!
The Seestar has a small FOV but ZWO is actually working on a Mosaic mode.
I agree with Ed most of the time. And although I do agree with his negative comments about the S50, I disagree with the notion that it’s not that good of a smart scope. It’s been a great tool I use every once in a while to digitally show friends abroad a few images of what I’m looking at. You just can’t beat the quick setup and use. Yes, its images are sub par compared to expensive astrophotography pro rigs. And if somebody buys this thinking they are getting pro images with it then yes they are mistaken. But my passion is in the live viewing and this is just a side tool that is occasionally used. For me it’s been a worthy investment, as a non-Astro photography guy. Still, glad Ed did a discussion on this unit. Thanks.👍
Thanks for the comments. It's getting lively around here, isn't it?
It wasn't a discussion it was an unfair rant that Ed should address in a future episode.
I think you’re missing the whole point. The Seestar S50 is dead easy to use and is opening astrophotography up to a whole new audience who don’t have the time or money to build the kind of rig that you keep referring to. Also, a lot of your comments are ill-informed. For example, the battery is easily replaceable. I know this and I’m no astrophotography expert. Similarly, I’ve never had any issues with leveling and creating RAW videos for stacking is also dead easy - I haven’t had any issues with conflicting file types. I think you’re over complicating it … perhaps this demonstrates that the future is about putting this kind of device into the hands of the novice to explore, develop and simplify the experience rather than have to listen to so called experts trying to introduce unnecessary FUD.
Exactly. And someone does not have to pay thousands of dollars to get into astrophotography. What soccer mom wants to be told in answer to her question "What telescooe should I buy my 10 year old" just buy them a Takahashi, then get them a good digital imager for around several thousands of $, and add a myriad of other accessories and your child is good to go!
$500, few parents will say no way.
I think you are missing the point.
This is meant as an entry to astronomy. You should be comparing the attributes to a store bought, or starter kit.
You get several advanced attributes in a simple package, for a low cost.
Yes, good point.
I think the inability to view things with your own eyes makes this a really bad entry level telescope. The fun of astronomy isn't looking at pictures of stuff, it's looking at it yourself and getting more intimate with the night sky. I think the space that'll be really interesing is hybrid scopes that offer the convenience of this thing while also getting you an actual telescope you can look through yourself. Though I guess that basically already exists in the form of various guidance apps that make it extremely easy to use any telescope.
I think this thing is basically only interesting if you're already into astronomy enough to want to get seriously into astrophotography but also value convenience. I think if you brought this thing as your actual first scope you'd use it for maybe a month at most before the novelty of it wore off and you realized that your experience wasn't really any different from just looking at pictures on the web, and then you either get an actual beginner scope at half the price or you drop the hobby entirely.
Ed has invaluable advice offered in an easy to understand delivery for someone like me, the Amateur's Amateur. His "If I could have only one scope" video was instrumental in my purchase of an 8" Dob, and I have never regretted it.
But my pictures suck. Even a quick 5-second exposure reveals bad trailing with my smartphone. And I just don't have the disposable income for a decent quality AP rig and the ancillary equipment involved. Never mind the learning curve, I don't have the life expectancy.
So $500 for a compact unit that will yield halfway decent shots without me being a shutterbug? Feels like a no-brainer. My only conundrum is should I get a Seestar or a Dwarf II?
If it wasn’t for a relatively cheap smart telescope I wouldn’t be in the hobby at all. My $500 scope gives me images many with traditional scopes can’t achieve because of the skill level required.
Hi Ed, I stumbled upon you video and thought as an recent owner of the SeeStar s50, that I would give you my views. I have been an visual astronomer for many years and own a 16" Reflections, 8" Skywatcher and a 10" Meade Lx200. I tried astrophotography in the past and struggled with the setup and getting things right. Also, I live in a large town in England with the usual light pollution issues and chasing objects visually is always difficult. I can't afford the luxury of a full modern imaging rig and don't have the space to put up a permanent setup, let along begin to understand the processing.
When the SeeStar s50 came along, I decided to get one with the full knowledge that it does not compare to a full rig, but what it has done is expand my observing and allows me to see objects that were a visual challenge in a light polluted area even with a large aperture telescope. It has also helped me to understand how images are taken and I am learning how to post process. The fact that I can simply set it up anywhere (I have put it on a better tripod), turn it on, level it, select an object, adjust the focus and press go then watch the image build is, in my view, absolutely great!
Yes, it has its limitations, but as an all-round starter imaging scope, I think ZWO have got it right.
PS... I done some field analysis of images I took of Messier galaxies in the Virgo / Leo area under Bortle 6 skies and the s50 is pulling in 15th mag PGC galaxies in the same frame, albeit very small faint blobs, but definitely identifiable!
The simplicity and convenience is the big selling point. Plunk it down and turn it on and it does the rest. I can see the appeal, but I’ll take my Star Adventurer and mirrorless camera with lens any day.
I think astronomy is not about simplicity, quite the opposite, smart telescopes make astronomy boring, I mean you don't do anything, just letting the thing do all the work , nothing to be proud about
@@velkylev4217 I like to think some people haven’t entered the hobby because of high costs or because the technology was intimidating. This scope allows more people to pick up the hobby and spend some time outside under the stars. That has to be a good thing.
I can't wait for the "if it's not hard you haven't done the work" crowd to die out in this hobby. There's a reason training wheels exist. Want to get more people caring about dark skies and light pollution? You don't get that without things like the s50 or dwarf II.
Every day people getting involved increases R&D, increases participation and makes advances happen faster.
I have a goto mount, using a dslr being run by nina, being guided by phd2, all on a mini pc. How is this any different than that? Less modular, 1/3rd the price and 1/10th the weight. Very little learning curve, great for getting kids involved without complicated troubleshooting.
I think for some people they are going to have to decide is astronomy (for them) about seeing a galaxy or the process of trying to see the galaxy. For many astrophotographers the process is a big part of the appeal yet for many ordinary folks astronomy is about seeing what wonders there are and if all they see is faint foggy smudges and monochrome misty haze they might never appreciate what they are actually looking at. Anything that gets us closer to an accessible universe, even if it is kind of "point and click" is a good thing. If one young family is saved from buying a cheap telescope on a toy mount with promises of huge magnification and they can actually see something that looks like what they expect we are making progress.
I must confess I don't understand the point of comparing photographs taken with your $10,000 rig versus a $500 instrument. What was that supposed to prove?
the S50 is definately FAR better than any other scope I've had for deep sky objects. Far from perfect yes but its enabled me to see things that I just couldn't see before which is after all the main point. Would I buy another smart scope ? No this one works and is easy to use. If I really wanted to take photography seriously I'd get a proper astro rig and build it up round my SCT - a smart photography back for the SCT would definately be worth waiting for. And yes there are user replacable batteries inside the S50
ZWO is a major player, like it or not. I recently visited a few remote observatories in NM, and 2/3 of the scopes had the red cameras on the back. If there is a player who can bring the smart telescopes into the masses, it is ZWO. This story reminds me of the development of consumer drones and DJI ten or so years ago.
Seestar is a great product, especially since this is the very first version. This review was very unfair.
Ed is also very illogical - he starts the review (and almost every review) by explaining what a telescope is and which end to look through. So one assumes he wants to help beginners. But very quickly he starts talking about "stacking", "white balance" and assumes his audience has turned into experienced astro-photographers.
I suspect that Ed is a little miffed that he is late to the "Seestar Reviews" party - all the good ones (and useful ones) have been done months ago (eg. by Cuiv etc). It is clear that Ed could not think of anything substantive to say, so resorted to nit-picking. If you watch one of the other reviews you actually learn something useful. If you watch one of Ed's reviews, all you learn are his opinions.
I have had more enjoyment with SeeStar and observed 10x better than when using eyepieces that Ed raves about (which cost twice as much as Seestar). I am sure if this had been a Televue product, Ed's review would have been entirely different.
For some of us this is an amazing product. I've been into astronomy my whole life and never had the kind of money to really make a deep dive into astrophotography. I bought a Celestron go-to 30 years ago and always struggled to set up the go-to because of the difficulty in aligning it in the first place. I would have to find the target myself and just use the tracking to keep it in the eyepiece and that was enough for me to be happy with it. The seestar I just bought I was immediately getting great images of the sun and moon and had no problem taking my first deep sky image of M101 on the very first night. I only had time for a 36 minute exposure but was quite impressed with being able to do it at all. I'm looking forward to imaging the Orion nebula and Andromeda in the next days/weeks. Long story short I am very happy with my purchase and no doubt will get years of enjoyment out of it. It helps that I'm fascinated enough with our home star to make it worth $500 in the first place, I just regret I didn't buy it sooner and had it for total eclipse
Ed, you really missed the mark here. You are comparing processed images from your imaging rig to unprocessed images from the Seestar. That is unfair and misleading. Your reviews are normally excellent and very thorough but you did not do your homework here. Take a look at some processed images the Seestar has produced. They are amazing. The Seestar is great for our hobby and will drive engagement. I have already ordered my Celestron Origin. Fasten your seatbelt!
Hi Ed, I think you had a pretty balanced review overall.. some good points regarding what could be improved. Like you, I've been enjoying the night sky since I was a kid (and I'm about 80 now) and have had way too many telescopes 🙂. I have two imaging setups involving cooled cameras, expensive mounts, guide scopes, electronic focusers, nice refractors, etc. HOWEVER, I love the Seestar S50. I've had mine since they were first released. I think the main issue is how you intend to use it. For me it is a very portable and easy way to show friends and families some of the wonders of the deep sky. I can carry to a neighbors house, put in in my car for a road trip, and always have a convenient tool to take a look at the night sky. I live in NM, so I'm fortunate to have decent skies a lot of the time. I see a LOT of awful Seestar images on the web, confirming that a lot of new users don't understand the need for a little post, etc. I agree the device post processing needs improvement. I've found that if I spend a little time doing post, it can make a huge difference in the image quality. Also, important to level as accurately as possible and agree that a leveling device is mandatory. Thanks for your review. Tony Bonanno, Santa Fe, NM
Dr. Ting, I’ve been waiting for you to post this video for a long time , even expecting it! Many of these products were in the 2000+ range but I think with this being only $500 we are “there” in terms of this being accessible to almost anyone intersted in the hobby. Excited for what the future holds for the amateur astronomer !
Obviously, based on the comments, not everyone shares your opinion… however, I for one appreciate your experience, knowledge, and perspective. Critical reviews like this helps manufactures improve their offerings… which helps move the bar forward for everyone. Let’s face it… the reason Smart Telescopes exist in the first place are the numerous niches that were not, or could not, be satisfied with existing solutions. Portability, low cost, ease of use, and shareability of results are big selling points - and kudos to the companies pursuing these features. We are very blessed to live in such times.
Ed I love your channel and watch it all the time. I have a SWED80 on a EQ6R Pro, a Williams 71 Triplet, a C5 an old Scope 60, and now a Seestar. The Seestar will do the job nicely introducing my very young grandchildren to the stars until they can look comfortably through an eyepiece. Small group outreach for novice stargazers on a budget is the Seestar's strength. I could wait for a better one, but the young ones will grow older and perhaps less interested.
Well you get a triplet scope. Small but not an achro. A mount with go to and tracking, which can be set up polar too. A Raspberry built in, and an HOO filter. Leveling has been fixed with an update. Comes with the solar filter too.
Try and buy that for $500.
It can store raw, so down loading you images, and processing them yourself is very doable.
I think it's a great way to get into ap. When you move on/up, what a great gift to get your grandchildren into astronomy.
You get to have fully automated results on night 1. Can then learn processing with the data from it. And when you buy your first real astro rig, you have an idea of how and what you want to do.
It's a shame that Ed didn't include this useful perspective in his short review.
Its a great scope. Polar alignment is coming soon and mosaic mode.
You're a real contrarian in the industry, Ed! Most other TH-cam astro influencers are raving about the Seestar. "However," you do make good points about "where we are" right now in the development of smart scopes. I have both a conventional astro-imaging rig on an EQ mount and a visual-only dob, so I agree on the limitations of the Seestar. I myself passed on it. But I went ahead and bought one for my son--he'd seen some of my images and got excited about galaxies and nebulae. I could have gotten him a traditional manual dob for the same price, but in his light-polluted city, he'd never see deep sky objects. Same thing with a $500-ish 80mm doublet refractor. I think the Seestar's achievement--and you're right, this is a "temporary" achievement--is creating a scope capable of live stacking tech that's able to see the brighter deep sky objects through light pollution. In this context, I think the Seestar is a valuable addition to the hobby.
This is more clickbait than valid comparative review and insight. You cannot beat the value, period, which never comes up. The only fair comparison would be with something (entire kit) in the same price range. It seems pretty evident that the market has been established as newbies, people without observatories who are tired of the setup and teardown, those whose gym time has not offset the weight of their gear as their years have progressed, and those who like to be setup and running in 2 minutes. External stacking and post processing is a progressive option that's available since ZWO has included the option to save every FITS frame. This seems like more of a review for the entitled few rather than a recognition of the tech, features and value.
I’m Totally excited with the Seestar as a beginner. I am a photographer and started photographing the moon . then moved on wanting to do astrophotography. I bought a tracker a Redcat Telescope to start this journey. I just couldn’t get to first base. I was having trouble with alignment , I struggled for a long time with all this never successful. I kept buying things that thought would help me get to first base . Supper frustrated I gave up. . The Seestar has allowed me to get into Deepspaces , lunar , solar. planets not great but that’s okay . Best investment i made and getting the training i need to advance. i’m learning and that’s the important part. not the money pit that i Nave in my bedroom holding my rob up 😩 I appreciate your video for the advance people . but for beginners like me it’s enough for us to view the deep pace objects and are excited to see if only the basics. The others stuff will come if we choose to invest and want more . 😊
I don't own one of these, and have no plans to buy one. However, having seen them in action I believe they are well-suited to outreach activities such as star parties. While there's nothing quite like seeing the Orion Nebula with your own eyeball, a few minutes' exposure with a Seestar does bring out a lot more than you can see with even a large telescope. The ability to find objects such as galaxies, planetary nebulae and clusters, and build an image that can be shown on a screen to a group of visitors is a really great feature. As an introduction to deep-sky astronomy, the Seestar and its rivals are remarkably good, and good value. For amateurs who want to do serious work they are far less useful.
Yes, good points.
Mind you the ability to find objects isn't a serious value add on considering there are literally free apps that do the same.
I have a few thoughts- My imaging rig is a 9.25EdgeHD. That thing has a small field of view and doesn't zoom either. There is a huge maker market for these things and several ways to run these in equatorial mode and that's a big deal. It can save videos on the moon or sun on the device itself (50G of onboard storage) and you can save fits file of DSOs for processing outside of the device. I've taken really great images of M51, M81, M42, and M46- All with less than an hour of total exposure time. In addition to that, I use it as an outreach device, streaming lunar and solar images. These are a great way to give people access to a hobby that would otherwise have a steep learning curve and potentially much higher cost. The S50 is not without flaws, but there is no question that it gives a tremendous bang for the buck.
I think review is little bit unfair in some moments, I feel like Ed doesn't like it for some reason, and was .too picky to the seestar. Just for example zoom "issue", who said there should be a zoom? try to zoom on your Takahashi. and the "market issue" things tend to be changing you never know for sure where market is going to go. so far I see people in my astronomy club enjoy it even guys with a lot of observation experience and giant dobs that you need ladder to get to the eyepiece were able to get their first astroimage ever right out of the box.
Well Seestar said there should be a zoom when they designed this thing to be permanently zoomed in way too much.
Maybe the Seestar isn’t great for your particular purpose or compared to your equipment, which is fine. Not everything is for everyone. But for someone like me who is just getting their feet wet in astrophotography, the Seestar is perfect.
It has been a great way for me to see if it is a hobby I truly wanted to invest thousands of dollars in…and I do. The fun I have had spending evenings out with my Seestar reminds me of when I spent evenings in the backyard as a kid with my cheap Tasco, in awe of nothing more than identifying the constellations. It has only whet my appetite to save up for high quality equipment and start learning about everything I can in the meantime.
I’ve seen a lot of comments against the Seestar that boil down to nothing but gatekeeping and that is just disappointing, this review included. Just because something like this makes it fun and easy to get started doesn’t discount the results dedicated astrophotography buffs get from their pricey equipment and dedication to their craft. It just means more people will be exposed to the wonder of the hobby and the stars. Maybe they’ll become buffs themselves, maybe not. But they will appreciate what’s out there beyond Earth, and isn’t that the most important thing?
Also please keep in mind those of us who may have physical disabilities, etc. and have trouble working with heavier equipment or more complex setups. These smart telescopes may seem like a shortcut to you, but they can be an open door to a previously closed off room for other people.
Very well said! Thank you.
But for $500 do we havve a better option? How about $1000-1500?
No. For $500 you barely can buy AZ GTi and basic camera...
For decent budget it is a better to build custom rig. Would be more flexible and useful.
The Takahashi 60mm telescope is over $1000. A good go to mount is another two to three thousand. Then you need digital cameras, laptop, hardware, software, looking at a minimum of $6,000, and most of my Astrophotography friends tell me they are all over $10k. But their images are absolutely amazing!
I saw an iOptron AstroBoy 70mm refractor on eBay for $100, and adding a ZWO camera to it might be $100 more. Obviously the value-add here is computer integration knowledge: it's just a matter of how much it's worth to you versus doing some of the work yourself. If you have the knowledge, but not the money, it's a no-brainer; likewise if you have money and need something self-contained. I could see this being very useful in a kiosk-type situation hooked up to a cheap Android tablet. If I were running, say, a science class or museum, it might be worthwhile.
@@Boxxkarr I think this is marketed more at the Tasco crowd than the Takahashi crowd. Someone with good computer knowledge and patience to wait for good deals could easily build something better themselves for less than $1000, and it would likely be more future-proof than this.
@@artyombeilis9075 a refractor on an eq mount is way better.
I like your channel, I have a full goto telescope and numerous eye pieces, I cannot comment on the see star but I have the Dwarf 11 and I’ve been impressed with the images it captures. I do agree that it’s early days with smart telescopes but if people like myself didn’t buy one then smart telescopes will not progress
That was a very thorough review! Thank you! I think it's helpful that people know what they are getting in this scope. I use mine as sort of a visual bridge between a telescope and an astrophotography set up. I can see details in my Bortle Class 6 sky I couldn't otherwise see very easily (with a scope I can transport and afford): shapes and details of galaxies, colors and details in planetary nebula, colors of stars in clusters, etc. And I can view a new object every 10-20 minutes! I can't afford a full astrophotography setup (and don't want to spend hours processing an image the next day). For $500, less than the cost of a TeleVue eyepiece or an Asiair Mini + Field Flattener, I can see things I couldn't easily see otherwise! Plus I have images to share with people the next day and get them interested and excited in the hobby. These scopes will get better, and if we support the companies with their products now, the companies will be around to put out improved projects in the future!
I know someone with a good AP rig. He needs a large SUV to transport all the pieces. He has wires all over the place and either a 4.5 reflector or 10” SCT. He has so many devices including a laptop that he needs a generator to power everything. Getting pictures and stacking them takes hours and all this equipment cost more than $10,000. Of course the final product is vastly superior to a Seestar. You get what you pay for. The Seestar is all in one and very portable. The longer people wait the more likely the price will go up not down. The Seestar is a good start. And way cheaper than a rig that requires trunk loads of equipment.
Clickbait clearly. It’s not that good is completely relative.
To someone new to astrophotography its a great scope. To someone who wants the convenience and portability its a great scope.
To someone who wants to do it all themselves and doesnt mind spending hours and hours setting everything up and on processing time, its not that good.
I have been into astronomy all my life. Purchased my first telescope at about 13 years old. 62 years old now. I recently had a fall. Left arm and shoulder destroyed, will never be the same. Had to retire and am thinking about EAA. Maybe setting up a permanent rig. Any recommendations on how or where to learn the skill. Always done visual astronomy. I am not interested in astrophotography.
If no one bought them now, you would not see any further development. If a company doesn't earn money they go out of business.
The Seestar S50 is not a good $500 telescope. It is a great $399 telescope. Because that is what I just paid for my Seestar S50 on Amazon. It is the best $399 I have ever spent.
Good point!
I think it's a good scope for only $500. I can observe objects which are impossible to see with my C8 (visually) in less than 10 mins. Very portable and easy to use.
i dont think that the images not looking special is the point. you say with conventional astrophotography, but conventional astrophotography requires you about a dozen things to get started with, if you live in the city or suburbs and the sky is bad, you need a filter . then there is the whole business of taking flats, stacking which is not easy. the taking images part itself is pretty easy with software like NINA, which allows you to automatize everything. these are just fantastic for carrying it around when you're travelling and in very dark spots where it'll shine.
It has a replaceable battery that is accessed on the bottom of the device - You need to check your facts
We have known people that have spend thousands of dollar on astrophotography equipment and after a couple years or even less they got tired of the amount of work it takes setting up and breaking the system down, and dragging it back inside. No every one can afford their own observatory. In time their equipment sets in storage or in the corner at most being taken out ,if then, one or two times a year. The Dwarf II and the SeeStar S50 has made observing fun again. Takes little time to set up and the picture are no terrible. Been doing this so long we remember the days of film astrophotography. Had someone been turning out images like one gets with these smart telescope of deepsky objects you would have be considered an advanced astrophotographer. What Ed is doing is like comparing a Ford Festa to Maserati. Of course the Maserati is going to be far superior. Then again the Ford Festa will get you from point A and b and back again in some general relative comfort and doesn't brake the bank.
You are comparing apples to oranges. The Seestar is a beginner’s Electronically Assisted Astronomy (EAA) device and not a dedicated astrophotography system. If you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree it will always be judged a failure. It is not going to be able to match your bespoke astrophotography rig that costs five or ten times as much. It is democratizing Astronomy, and will inevitably lead some folks from EAA into astrophotography. Yes, it is a first generation devise, but there is no need to wait.
So basically all I hear is if you're not spending $3,000 or more trying to piece together a whole setup as a beginner and not doing it "like we had to learn it" then I don't like it, it's junk, don't get it..... $500 for the seestar is a great price for everything it dies. As a newbie I love mine. It is doing everything I have wanted it to do to learn about astrophotography. This is actually going to lead me into a better setup
Yep, just a cranky old dude saying "get off my lawn!" Or "it was hard for me so it should be hard for everyone else!".
@@RobotSnake exactly! The same crotchety old dopes that sit in the forums and bitch about ZWO ruining the hobby, not lugging a laptop to the field to use NINA is doing it wrong and blah blah blah… “It was hard for me so it should be hard for you!” Seems like a truly Luddite mentality… I highly doubt if these same a-holes are driving model T’s and heating their house with a wood burning stove… but it sounds like they should be. ‘Purists’ are the true hobby killer in any thing…
That was literally the opposite of what he said, how is your hearing this bad?
You're comparing apples and oranges, Ed, and it's not a fair or valid comparison. Seestar is amazing, especially for $500. Discouraging people from the hobby isn't attractive. 'If you wait they'll get better' is not a good or valid reason to not do the hobby. We do this b/c we enjoy it, and a lot of people are getting a lot of enjoyment using the S50. Don't minimize the 'I took this photo' value of the Seestar. You took this video with $30k in astronomy gear behind you, and that's is a tell. Seestar is amazing. If you aren't getting more than $500 worth of fun out of it, the problem is not with the telescope.
This! Clear, logical, open minded! 👍