Not sure why you have grey tank and 2nd pump etc, and don't simply gravity feed directly from shower drain to original 5 gallon tank? Just bottom drain that 5 gallon tank when it gets contaminated, and refill from fresh water tank. Just trying to wrap my head around my own planning, and find, some of your system seems superfluous for a simple closed loop.
The shower drain is gravity fed to the grey tank which is under the van. The original 5 gallon tank is in the van above the grey tank. So, a pump is needed to put the water back into the original 5 gallon tank. Because of the location it can't gravity feed directly to the original 5 gallon tank. It all depends on the tank locations!
Awesome description, thanks a lot for taking the time to put this together you can believe I have liked and subscribed and will continue to follow your channel. Me I'm just a guy from Fort Worth Texas building RV
This is cool! You mention you used 3 identical pumps, but only show 2 here. I assume the 3rd is for the kitchen sink. How do you empty the 5 gal tank that contains recirculated water? Also you could've eliminated one of the tanks, and just use the grey water tank as the circulated water tank? You'll just have to empty the grey water tank "each time" you want to take a shower, and then fill it in? But this system removes that constraint, and can re-use the 5 gal water for multiple showers?
If you watch this video th-cam.com/video/vYiWQh-6bY0/w-d-xo.html you will see the actual installation. We use a single pump for the shower and a single 5 gallon grey tank for the water. To refill when we want it is gravity fed from the fresh water tanks. Yes we can re-use the 5 gallons for multiple showers, and replace anytime we want. We also use electronic ball valves to empty the tank. Been working well for over two years. Thanks for watching
Fantastic video thanks for the great content! So precice and straight to the point. Our campervan build is on its way, would love to share our plans with you. I've done some cool 3D construction drawings!
A few questions and comments: It seems in general ideas get put out there and then just get recirculated. We see various iterations of the same idea. One thing nobody seems to be talking about is carbon filters are typically not designed for HOT water. I think most sediment filters can handle the hotter water, but carbon filters to my knowledge are not designed for HOT water. I don't think I've really seen anybody address this. Kleen systems does make a filter design for up to 180°, but not carbon. Second, I would strongly advise using a heat exchanger unless your hot water heater is dedicated only to your shower. A separate pump can recirculate the hot water through the heat exchanger, and then your shower water goes on the opposite side and is heated by the exchanger. Beer cooling systems tend to be cheaper than so-called "heat exchangers". Something in the 30 plate variety should be more than adequate. An anti-scalding valve I think is also a nice idea to avoid any water shock. This keeps any shower water out of your HW tank or heater. You can also use engine coolant to heat as well with this set-up. And what I've done is hooked up two sources of water to my shower. I had a normally open solenoid valve just before the filter, and I only recirculate water that has no soap in it. Even in this water I add a tablespoon of Epson salt to help convert normally soluble chemicals to insoluble and that helps the filter do its job. Soap is what kills the filter the fastest. Just before I shampoo my hair, I turn off my recirculating filter, turn on the solenoid valve, and lather up and rinse military style. This diverts all the soapy water to your gray tank or outside. And I use a plant-based biodegradable soap. Uses maybe a quart of water. And people should be aware that most UV lights run off of 110 V, and the pump mentioned is 7 Amps. You need a pretty hefty battery system to run these style systems. And while I have not tested, a company called Loops, released a commercially available portable shower totally self-contained. I think it runs about $1000, and is using a series of screens as opposed to filters, so they can be washed. Over the long haul I'm sure it would pay for itself. It has a 12 Volt UVC LED. I have yet to find one available anywhere else that runs off 12 V. Again most of these UV lights are 110 Volt, so you need an inverter. I think you've touched on a lot of good points though. In general trying to keep the soap out of the system is key though. And using a plant based shampoo.
Just curious. Why no spin down filter for the pump that sits after the 10 gal. Grey tank? And, is it harder on the filters to have the grey water tank in the recirc system?
There is a spin down filter. After the prototype, I removed one of the tanks. So, there is a single tank. The final installation is shown in this video th-cam.com/video/vYiWQh-6bY0/w-d-xo.html Also all the videos are divided by category at thefrugalfactor.com/
I love all your videos. Super helpful. When your freshwater tank is running low how does the water continue to completely flow to the second tank with it being so far away? If I am setting up a system like this in a bus conversion, do you have to turn the pumps on and off before and after you shower? Same question for the ball valves. Do the ball valves have their own switch on them or is that a separate item needed to wire it to?
Watching this video may answer your questions th-cam.com/video/vYiWQh-6bY0/w-d-xo.html The tanks are not far away, less than 4 feet. We only need to turn on the pump when taking a shower. There is now one pump, and one grey tank. Gravity puts the water in the grey tank, and a single pump pulls it out. We have two ball valves, one for the 5 gal shower tank, and one for the 5 gallon sink grey water. Each is on its own switch. Soon there will be a video showing electrical connections for all the switches.
I would suggest a none return valve from the fresh water tank so that if the shower tank is full, the water from the shower drain cannot be pumped into the fresh water !!
how would you add a sink to this? Maybe route the water after the uv and hot water heater into the sink, and have it drain back into the 10 gallon grey tank? do i need those check leveler thingies or special connectors??
Great video! Can you put the pump after the UV filter and other filters or even after the mixing valve for hot and cold water right before coming out of the shower? (In case of one pump and one tank) Or is this a bad idea because there will be sitting water in the filters after each shower? If sitting water is not a problem for the filters could you get away without a tank?
You can give it a try. That would require the pump to pull the water through the filters. When researching I found that pumps do not suck up the water efficiently.
Question - how might you change the schematic to retrofit a system like this into an existing RV (for example with a Truma combi system that already is an instant hot water heater). I wouldnt want to pump this recycled water back through the system we use to wash dishes etc.
Thank you for the detailed schematic and helpful videos. I have a few questions: 1) Why the need for two tanks in the shower loop? I was hoping to get away with one grey tank under the van. 2) Why the need for two pumps in the shower loop? Could you use a more powerful pump for the loop? 3) Does the UV light turn on automatically when water runs through it or do you need to run a wire for an on / off switch? 4) How do you clean the system other than replace water, clean filters, and replace filters? 5) Your specified UV water purifier link is the .5 GPM. Does that constrict the water flow of your shower? A typical USA shower uses a little over 2 GPM. Thank you for your help and the very informative videos.
1. You could use a single tank. I all depends on the location of the tank. Also, a single tank under the van, may freeze in colder weather. Be sure to use a heating pad - if the tank is outside. 2. Again two pumps are needed because of the location of the tanks. If you use a single tank, you could use a single pump. 3. In my application the UV light is wired to turn on when I start the pump, and hat water heater. 4. I have been replacing the water, filters and disinfect the system with bleach when I replace the filters. 5. I have not noticed any reduction in water pressure. I checked the specs on the UV system and it states 2 gallons per minute.
@@FrugalFactor Thank you for the details! Much appreciated. I just checked it again and when I hit your Amazon link for the UV filter it has the 0.5 GPM unit selected. I am not questioning what you have installed, just the Amazon link. Thanks again?
How would one pump work with one tank? I still see a need for two, one to get water up into the shower head and another to push it through the filters back into the recirculating tank. What am I missing? P.S. manbulance guys used a bath/shower combo mixer to send water out the water exit which might negate the need for the check valve and solenoid on the exit side.
Great videos thank you! I’ve mocked up a system in my garage also but it’s not working properly thought I’d ask the expert, it runs great but seems to have quite a bit of water in the pan ( I’m just using a 5 gallon bucket with a fitting at the bottom until my pan arrives) and secondly when I close the ball valve that is after the check valve and open the electric valve to exit the water it won’t empty the entire system?? I appreciate any thoughts ideas. Great job!!
From your description it sounds like everything is on the same level. Water flows with gravity out of the pan (5 gallon bucket). When you open the electronic ball valve all the water should exit. I may have half an inch remaining in the tank. That is due to the height of the drain on the tank.
Thank you I see, the water exits now, my other problem now is when I shut the shower head off the pressure builds to about 45# and the pump from the spin dow n filter shuts off and the pump from the 10 gallon keeps pumping ( or bubbling) into the 5 gallon tank Thanks again I appreciate the help
The pump I use is variable flow (SEAFLO 42-Series) and shuts off after it reaches a set pressure. You should shut the pumps off when not in use. When not in use/at rest there is no reason to have pressure in the system.
There is a small spin down filter that is included with the SeaFlo pump. The main spin down filter in front of the filters, it to protect the filters from clogging. Adding a second large spin down filter is not a problem, but so far I have not found it needed. I would further protect the pump.
If the recirculating shower water already has some residual heat left In it and then it goes through the rapid water heater- will the heater add its thermostat set hot water to the already heated water and actually achieve a higher temperature?
19 gallons of process water (more, including that in filter housings and plumbing) is excessive, largely negating the benefits of re-circulation. One should be able to get this down under 4 gallons by scavenging from an open shower drain sump and pumping directly through the filters into a small (2-3 gal) reservoir tank, then a second pressure pump, though a tankless heat exchanger to shower valve/head. This is my plan, anyway, in conjunction with a diesel/electric/engine-coolant hydronic heating system that also serves RV interior.
Total is 9 gallons of water, and may be used for multiple showers. Your plan sounds interesting, hopefully you will share it when it is completed or prototyped.
What happens if you use soap during a normal shower? 3 Filters and the UV sterilizer cannot cleanup the soap in the system. After looking at your schematic, it looks like the drain pump is superfluous. The whole should be designed with 12 volt DC. Lastly, where you will find space for all these tanks and bulky filters in a van. Can you simplify the system keeping the same objective of recirculating fresh water shower every time you take a shower? That should be the actual challenge.
I always use soap, and the filters do clear the soap from the water. The system is designed with 12 Volts DC. The system is placed out exactly as it will be implemented in the van. If you look at the other video's in the series you can see the blue tape on the floor designating the placement of each item. Cheers....
Can the 4 gallon hot water heater in this system be replaced with a tankless water heater that runs off of propane? If so, this is the system that I will use 😁
Congratulations ! Explanation clear and simple . Thanks.
That's really clear, thanks
Your welcome. I did several videos about the shower at thefrugalfactor.com/ you can see all the videos divided into categories. Enjoy your build!
Nice system. Thanks for sharing
Not sure why you have grey tank and 2nd pump etc, and don't simply gravity feed directly from shower drain to original 5 gallon tank? Just bottom drain that 5 gallon tank when it gets contaminated, and refill from fresh water tank. Just trying to wrap my head around my own planning, and find, some of your system seems superfluous for a simple closed loop.
The shower drain is gravity fed to the grey tank which is under the van. The original 5 gallon tank is in the van above the grey tank. So, a pump is needed to put the water back into the original 5 gallon tank. Because of the location it can't gravity feed directly to the original 5 gallon tank. It all depends on the tank locations!
Awesome description, thanks a lot for taking the time to put this together you can believe I have liked and subscribed and will continue to follow your channel.
Me I'm just a guy from Fort Worth Texas building RV
Thank You for the positive feedback. Its a great deal of work, but the type of work I enjoy. Hopefully, the video's provide some good ideas!
This is cool! You mention you used 3 identical pumps, but only show 2 here. I assume the 3rd is for the kitchen sink. How do you empty the 5 gal tank that contains recirculated water? Also you could've eliminated one of the tanks, and just use the grey water tank as the circulated water tank? You'll just have to empty the grey water tank "each time" you want to take a shower, and then fill it in? But this system removes that constraint, and can re-use the 5 gal water for multiple showers?
If you watch this video th-cam.com/video/vYiWQh-6bY0/w-d-xo.html you will see the actual installation. We use a single pump for the shower and a single 5 gallon grey tank for the water. To refill when we want it is gravity fed from the fresh water tanks. Yes we can re-use the 5 gallons for multiple showers, and replace anytime we want. We also use electronic ball valves to empty the tank. Been working well for over two years.
Thanks for watching
Fantastic video thanks for the great content! So precice and straight to the point. Our campervan build is on its way, would love to share our plans with you. I've done some cool 3D construction drawings!
A few questions and comments:
It seems in general ideas get put out there and then just get recirculated. We see various iterations of the same idea.
One thing nobody seems to be talking about is carbon filters are typically not designed for HOT water. I think most sediment filters can handle the hotter water, but carbon filters to my knowledge are not designed for HOT water. I don't think I've really seen anybody address this. Kleen systems does make a filter design for up to 180°, but not carbon.
Second, I would strongly advise using a heat exchanger unless your hot water heater is dedicated only to your shower. A separate pump can recirculate the hot water through the heat exchanger, and then your shower water goes on the opposite side and is heated by the exchanger. Beer cooling systems tend to be cheaper than so-called "heat exchangers". Something in the 30 plate variety should be more than adequate. An anti-scalding valve I think is also a nice idea to avoid any water shock. This keeps any shower water out of your HW tank or heater. You can also use engine coolant to heat as well with this set-up.
And what I've done is hooked up two sources of water to my shower. I had a normally open solenoid valve just before the filter, and I only recirculate water that has no soap in it. Even in this water I add a tablespoon of Epson salt to help convert normally soluble chemicals to insoluble and that helps the filter do its job. Soap is what kills the filter the fastest.
Just before I shampoo my hair, I turn off my recirculating filter, turn on the solenoid valve, and lather up and rinse military style. This diverts all the soapy water to your gray tank or outside. And I use a plant-based biodegradable soap. Uses maybe a quart of water.
And people should be aware that most UV lights run off of 110 V, and the pump mentioned is 7 Amps. You need a pretty hefty battery system to run these style systems.
And while I have not tested, a company called Loops, released a commercially available portable shower totally self-contained. I think it runs about $1000, and is using a series of screens as opposed to filters, so they can be washed. Over the long haul I'm sure it would pay for itself. It has a 12 Volt UVC LED. I have yet to find one available anywhere else that runs off 12 V. Again most of these UV lights are 110 Volt, so you need an inverter.
I think you've touched on a lot of good points though. In general trying to keep the soap out of the system is key though. And using a plant based shampoo.
The system we described and installed is working very well. We find it easy to use. Everyone has their own ideas....
Just curious. Why no spin down filter for the pump that sits after the 10 gal. Grey tank? And, is it harder on the filters to have the grey water tank in the recirc system?
There is a spin down filter. After the prototype, I removed one of the tanks. So, there is a single tank. The final installation is shown in this video th-cam.com/video/vYiWQh-6bY0/w-d-xo.html Also all the videos are divided by category at thefrugalfactor.com/
I love all your videos. Super helpful.
When your freshwater tank is running low how does the water continue to completely flow to the second tank with it being so far away?
If I am setting up a system like this in a bus conversion, do you have to turn the pumps on and off before and after you shower?
Same question for the ball valves.
Do the ball valves have their own switch on them or is that a separate item needed to wire it to?
Watching this video may answer your questions th-cam.com/video/vYiWQh-6bY0/w-d-xo.html The tanks are not far away, less than 4 feet. We only need to turn on the pump when taking a shower. There is now one pump, and one grey tank. Gravity puts the water in the grey tank, and a single pump pulls it out. We have two ball valves, one for the 5 gal shower tank, and one for the 5 gallon sink grey water. Each is on its own switch. Soon there will be a video showing electrical connections for all the switches.
@Frugal Factor I look forward to the switch connection video. This video link was very helpful. Thank you so much
I would suggest a none return valve from the fresh water tank so that if the shower tank is full, the water from the shower drain cannot be pumped into the fresh water !!
how would you add a sink to this? Maybe route the water after the uv and hot water heater into the sink, and have it drain back into the 10 gallon grey tank? do i need those check leveler thingies or special connectors??
The sink is a separate system and seen in this video - th-cam.com/video/6q-gEsDdDrs/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=FrugalFactor
Great video! Can you put the pump after the UV filter and other filters or even after the mixing valve for hot and cold water right before coming out of the shower? (In case of one pump and one tank) Or is this a bad idea because there will be sitting water in the filters after each shower? If sitting water is not a problem for the filters could you get away without a tank?
You can give it a try. That would require the pump to pull the water through the filters. When researching I found that pumps do not suck up the water efficiently.
Question - how might you change the schematic to retrofit a system like this into an existing RV (for example with a Truma combi system that already is an instant hot water heater). I wouldnt want to pump this recycled water back through the system we use to wash dishes etc.
Thank you for the detailed schematic and helpful videos. I have a few questions:
1) Why the need for two tanks in the shower loop? I was hoping to get away with one grey tank under the van.
2) Why the need for two pumps in the shower loop? Could you use a more powerful pump for the loop?
3) Does the UV light turn on automatically when water runs through it or do you need to run a wire for an on / off switch?
4) How do you clean the system other than replace water, clean filters, and replace filters?
5) Your specified UV water purifier link is the .5 GPM. Does that constrict the water flow of your shower? A typical USA shower uses a little over 2 GPM.
Thank you for your help and the very informative videos.
1. You could use a single tank. I all depends on the location of the tank. Also, a single tank under the van, may freeze in colder weather. Be sure to use a heating pad - if the tank is outside.
2. Again two pumps are needed because of the location of the tanks. If you use a single tank, you could use a single pump.
3. In my application the UV light is wired to turn on when I start the pump, and hat water heater.
4. I have been replacing the water, filters and disinfect the system with bleach when I replace the filters.
5. I have not noticed any reduction in water pressure. I checked the specs on the UV system and it states 2 gallons per minute.
@@FrugalFactor Thank you for the details! Much appreciated. I just checked it again and when I hit your Amazon link for the UV filter it has the 0.5 GPM unit selected. I am not questioning what you have installed, just the Amazon link.
Thanks again?
How would one pump work with one tank? I still see a need for two, one to get water up into the shower head and another to push it through the filters back into the recirculating tank. What am I missing?
P.S. manbulance guys used a bath/shower combo mixer to send water out the water exit which might negate the need for the check valve and solenoid on the exit side.
Oh wait, you just need to move all your filters on the shower head side of the recirculating tank, I think I answered my own question 😂
Great videos thank you! I’ve mocked up a system in my garage also but it’s not working properly thought I’d ask the expert, it runs great but seems to have quite a bit of water in the pan ( I’m just using a 5 gallon bucket with a fitting at the bottom until my pan arrives) and secondly when I close the ball valve that is after the check valve and open the electric valve to exit the water it won’t empty the entire system?? I appreciate any thoughts ideas. Great job!!
From your description it sounds like everything is on the same level. Water flows with gravity out of the pan (5 gallon bucket). When you open the electronic ball valve all the water should exit. I may have half an inch remaining in the tank. That is due to the height of the drain on the tank.
Thank you I see, the water exits now, my other problem now is when I shut the shower head off the pressure builds to about 45# and the pump from the spin dow n filter shuts off and the pump from the 10 gallon keeps pumping ( or bubbling) into the 5 gallon tank
Thanks again I appreciate the help
The pump I use is variable flow (SEAFLO 42-Series) and shuts off after it reaches a set pressure. You should shut the pumps off when not in use. When not in use/at rest there is no reason to have pressure in the system.
Don’t you need another spin down filter just after the 10 gal sump to protect that pump?
There is a small spin down filter that is included with the SeaFlo pump. The main spin down filter in front of the filters, it to protect the filters from clogging. Adding a second large spin down filter is not a problem, but so far I have not found it needed. I would further protect the pump.
hello, does the waterheater keep the recirculating water during a shower session at the same temperatur?
Yes. That recirculated water may already be warm, so that water could warm up even more. But I don't notice any real change.
@@FrugalFactor thanks!
If the recirculating shower water already has some residual heat left In it and then it goes through the rapid water heater- will the heater add its thermostat set hot water to the already heated water and actually achieve a higher temperature?
19 gallons of process water (more, including that in filter housings and plumbing) is excessive, largely negating the benefits of re-circulation. One should be able to get this down under 4 gallons by scavenging from an open shower drain sump and pumping directly through the filters into a small (2-3 gal) reservoir tank, then a second pressure pump, though a tankless heat exchanger to shower valve/head. This is my plan, anyway, in conjunction with a diesel/electric/engine-coolant hydronic heating system that also serves RV interior.
Total is 9 gallons of water, and may be used for multiple showers. Your plan sounds interesting, hopefully you will share it when it is completed or prototyped.
Actually, why not combine the two sumps into one?
What happens if you use soap during a normal shower? 3 Filters and the UV sterilizer cannot cleanup the soap in the system. After looking at your schematic, it looks like the drain pump is superfluous. The whole should be designed with 12 volt DC. Lastly, where you will find space for all these tanks and bulky filters in a van. Can you simplify the system keeping the same objective of recirculating fresh water shower every time you take a shower? That should be the actual challenge.
I always use soap, and the filters do clear the soap from the water. The system is designed with 12 Volts DC. The system is placed out exactly as it will be implemented in the van. If you look at the other video's in the series you can see the blue tape on the floor designating the placement of each item. Cheers....
💙
Volume sucks badly
Can the 4 gallon hot water heater in this system be replaced with a tankless water heater that runs off of propane?
If so, this is the system that I will use 😁
Those tankless heaters need to be used outside, or vent very well. I would not use one in an enclosed van.
Damn this diagram sure looks familiar...