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I think something that this movie really wanted to highlight, which I also think people have a hard time wrapping their heads around sometimes due to other iconic portrayals, was the actual nature of Dracula's character. He isn't a man who can transform into a monster. He's a monster pretending to be a man. So, in an environment where he doesn't need to pretend anymore cause the only goal is to kill, we're gonna get a wildly different side of him shown. Just the monster.
I can see that angle but we don't really get to contrast it with him pretending to be a man untill the ending. He mostly just acts like any other monster
@@MaMastoast I sort of don't think the contrast is actually needed because Dracula is so ubiquitous. It's like they were saying in the review: the movie pre-supposes you know who Dracula is. It doesn't need to do the legwork to give a comparison because the viewers are already used to Legosi and Oldman and Cage as the monster disguised as a man. The movie instead sets out to show you what those characters would look like if they didn't need to hide in plain sight and could instead kill a cast of dumb sailors uninhibited.
@@TravioliRavioli Well we can assume he still has his powers of hypnosis and persuasion so he can probably make people see him as a normal man if he wants.
I really enjoyed the take on Dracula in this as a feral, hungry beast. I love Anna's description of him as a demon that disguises as a man. Great episode! Really hope Godzilla Minus One is covered next
It was weird to me as I usually associate the feral pestilence aspect of vampires with Nosferatu with Dracula being the classy, sexy vampire. I know they're ultimately derived from the same source material, but I feel the cinematic history of both lineages over the past century has speciated the two somewhat.
@@KentuckyKaiju I like the fact that Dracula is both, but is deprived of an abundance of blood on his journey, so he doesn't have the power to transform into the sexy version. Also a sexy, seductive Dracula really wouldn't work in the atmosphere of this film.
@@BTT16Plus, I feel like it’s a reminder that Dracula’s suave, charming side isn’t part of his personality- it’s a weapon to facilitate hunting in a ‘civilized’ society. If he could drop the pretense and be bestial all the time, he would. It’s less effort
The fact that in the book he escaped as a dog reminds me of the start of The Thing. In the book, Dracula is not as strong in sunlight but it doesn't kill him since he walks around in the day. In the book part of the deal is that Dracula can cloud minds, which works in the screen life feel of the book. Dracula mocking people reminded me of The Predator. The idea with the vampire mermaid has been explored but the reason you don't see vampires in the sea is because running water is one of their weaknesses in certain vampire lore. Stagnant water is ok but any type of water with a current whether that be salt water or fresh water will cause disintegration of their flesh, not the burning sensation of holy water but the same end result. It is why Dracula didn't just fly from Romania to England. That Frankenstein sequel would be a cool idea since that would be the climax part of the original book. Interesting podcast as usual y'all.
The crew spent their days doing their regular work. As men started going missing, the remaining men had to do extra duties and got very little sleep. It was generally the steersman or watchman who went missing at night, while everyone else was asleep. The whole crew searched the ship once but didn't open the boxes so they only learned what was happening as it was happening to them. The first mate was pissed at everyone being superstitious, at first. He eventually figured it out and pretty much went mad. When it was only him and the captain left, the first mate opened the caskets until he found Dracula. He was so mad by that point that he didn't even try to kill him. He just ran to the deck, shouted a warning to the captain, and jumped overboard. At that point, only the captain was left and he was convinced the first mate had gone nuts and killed everyone. He had to stay at the wheel from then on and he saw Dracula at night. At that point, he updated his log, put it in a bottle and sealed it, then tied himself to the wheel with a rosary around his hands, in the hope that it would protect him from Dracula. He accepted that, as captain, it was his duty to go down with his ship. He kept the bottle with the log in it on himself in the hopes that if the ship sank, someone would eventually find it and understand why they all died. The final log entry doesn't indicate if the captain was hoping to go out to sea or to eventually hit land. His only hope was that the rosary would protect him and save his soul. If you read this whole thing and have never read the book, I suggest signing up for Dracula Daily on substack This guy sends out each entry in the book (it's letters, telegrams, journal entries, newspaper clippings) by email, each day that appears in the book so you read it in the "real time" of the book. The emails start on May 3 and end on November 10. If nothing happens in the book on a particular day, you don't get an email.
For anyone curious, early vampire myths say they can't cross running water. The gravedirt (it's not just from his home, it's specifically from where he was buried) is partially to get around THAT issue, hence him not leaving the ship until it reached shore. The movie didn't stick with that, but that's the reason for how the book went. In answer to the underwater vampire thing
They did that for Astrion in BGIII and people joked that the party would have to carry him over rivers so we need dracula being carried by Renfield like a newlywed couple
Yes, Dracula needs to sleep on native soil to restore & recharge. I wonder how high a sleep number "I lay in a wooden coffin lined with earth from my homeland" is.
So in the book, if I remember correctly (and I might be confusing events with various adaptions, please feel free to correct me), Count Dracula has just bought property in England through Jonathan Harker, and personally chartered the Demeter to take 50 boxes of earth (dirt from the country where he was born, because that’s how he restores his powers) to England. I think he stows away inside of the boxes, so the crew don’t know he’s there, and he’s the one that kills the crew (because he needs blood during the voyage, which lasted weeks to months). As for why the Captain is tied to the steering wheel, I always interpreted it that Dracula did that, because otherwise he’d be stuck in the ocean. After escaping the boat in the form of a dog (because Dracula can shape shift in the book), he sends people to collect the boxes because it is his property and there’s no evidence he’s involved. EDIT: Chelsea mentions the extra crew member, that’s probably Dracula.
I always thought the Captain lashed himself to the steering wheel as a last ditch effort to make the ship go out to sea and keep Dracula from getting to England. If I recall he was said to have a cross on him, which repelled Dracula and wouldn't allow him to remove him to steer. Dracula then summons the storm to make winds fierce enough to direct it to England anyway.
@Anthintendo in the books I believe there's an off hand comment about the fact he's taught by the devil to acquire all these extra OP powers. Man's a demon university graduate
Good summary but one other spooky and interesting aspect is that from the Captain’s perspective he seemingly never directly saw Dracula, from his perspective members of the crew were vanishing and he didn’t know what was going on if I recall correctly in one of his last logs the Captain drew the conclusion that his first mate had gone crazy and was killing the crew.
To confirm as someone who took a history of western medicine class, we did use to just give blood transfusions before blood typing. It was just thought it was a chance you die from a transfusion but the chances where low enough that it was worth the chances or else you would have definitely died. I was impressed at how accurate they got to how old blood transfusions were done. RIP Huckleberry he deserved the best boy who tried to fight dracula
My professor's brother worked on this movie. The amount of preproduction to post-production work was absolutely insane. We learned about the process of making this movie from someone who actually worked on it, and even though it's not my favorite movie, you can still appreciate all the work put into it.
Regarding the water thing I believe that one of the parts of (the incredibly messy) vampire mythology is the idea of them not being able to cross bodies of water, partly because of the likely real life inspiration of rabies and on a metaphorical level either because bodies of water are holy because it comes from the heavens or because of the vampires not being able to cross boundaries unless permitted and bodies of water are natural barriers.
Funny how a lot of traditional anti-vampire strategies line up with basic disease/pandemic protocols (limiting contact, natural barriers like running water, holy/purified water, etc)
I've also heard that it's specifically running water, because the flow of the stream can supposedly wash away impurities. I think it's supposed to correlate to Christian belief that Baptism by water washes away sin and reborn you pure of soul, which would sound pretty bad for a vampire.
@@KentuckyKaiju A lot of mythology and superstition, if you squint, kinda looks like reactions to maladies, threats, disorders, and anomalies that are better understood now but would have been mysterious in origin to our ancestors. For example, the food available to a pregnant woman will influence the development of her fetus and in early agricultural societies where food is heavily dominated by seasons it would be easy for our ancestors to notice that people born at different times of year had different traits and behaviors, especially as children. That's the seeds of astrology, right there. On a darker note, the symptoms of autism become evident in babies right around the time that children now get their vaccines, leading to *that* famous misunderstanding, but it's also about the age that our ancestors believed the fey would snatch their children and replace them with changelings...
The two of you overflowing with praise for both Obra Dinn and Outer Wilds makes me so happy. "Those are two of the best game experiences ever." HARD agree.
I love that Chelsea said Dracula likes to play with his food and in the new Abigail trailer the ballerina vampire says she likes to play with her food first.
50:35 I have a simple answer for James, remember how you said that Dracula mocked his victim (taunted their voices) before killing them?!.... Knowing that is his character, it's not a stretch at all to think he would send back the boat to simply 'mock' any attempts of escape his victims have. Essentially psychological warfare, anytime, all the time.
To recommend a way of reading Dracula that's 'easier' I really suggest Re:Dracula. It's a Podcast where they tell the story of Dracula in chronological order and was inspired off of the email phenomenon Dracula Daily, which did the same thing! The voice acting and sound design is incredible. It's worth a shot if you haven't read the book and actually answers the underwater Dracula question!
Second this! I was really struggling to get through the book by reading/via audiobooks but the sound design, the music and the characters being voiced by different actors really helped me stay engaged with the story.
I really enjoyed the weird vampire lore in it, my favorite part is how Dracula can transport via moonlight, hence how he gets into the locked room to bite the kid, he gets in via the moonbeam in the room
They need to make this a Van Helsing origin. Clemons is a man of science and research, so have him struggle to make sense of the world of the world through different experiences like this one. Van Clemsing. Have him encounter the Wolf Man, Frankenstein/his monster, the mummy, and the creature from the black lagoon on his journey to kill Dracula. I dont care how that may or may not screw up all of the cannons, that shit would be sick
I was definitely expecting him to either have the last name Van Helsing (and having that be revealed in the tavern) or him meeting Van Helsing/ going to meet the guy later on. I know it's supposed to be Abraham van Helsing but it would tie in so neatly
I really liked The Last Voyage of the Demeter. Finally a Dracula movie where he’s a terrifying monster instead of just a man. One of my favorite movies of the year. Hate that it didn’t do well in the box office (I blame Universal for barely marketing it). But man the movie absolutely perfected that dark, ominous, helpless atmosphere. It felt creepy and dark from start to finish. My only gripes were the lack of gore and too much cgi used on Dracula. He looked way scarier and more terrifying with the practical suit and effects. Still a great movie imo.
The movie is actually shortlisted for best makeup at the oscars (and they are very much into prostetics and heavy makeup) so I think they just added a weird amount of cgi to the vampire
I fucking hate that movies are doing this now. Why make an actor sit for HOURS of makeup if you’re just going to make it look so CG you can’t even tell if it’s an actual person. It’s fucking pointless
@@wesjall I know, like I get having some cg if needed because maybe the face or movements get too still or something, maybe you need to do something that makeup or practical effects wouldn't archive, but to put that much so your work gets lost maybe just use all cgi and call it a day
If you’re looking for a better (and shorter) version of this movie, just watch the Love Death and Robots episode “Bad Traveling”. It was directed by David Fincher and also deals with a monster on board a ship during old maritime days picking off the crew one by one. I found this 21 minute short film to be a much more engaging and much less repetitive version of Last Voyage of the Demeter. If you left Demeter disappointed and wanting more, then try this since it’s such a quick watch.
As someone who is inordinately attached to the Demeter section of Dracula, I appreciate Chelsea for calling out how much better the book section is. I support every usage of the phrase "In the book" in this episode!!
I surprisingly liked this movie more than I thought when I saw it in theaters, I do gotta say it’s one of my all time favorite designs for Dracula and just take on the story but his design in this movie was awesome
A big part of vampire lore in general is that they are weak to running water. I feel like if you are deep enough in the ocean, it would not matter. I think most vampires would not want to risk the journey up and down from the water just in case.
I was the opposite. I flew through Dracula, but struggled through Frankenstein. I ended up loving both. Dracula's ending is so insane it's way worth the finish.
My favorite episodes are the ones where you two cover movies that you kinda liked or didn’t like at all. There’s always so much emotion still when talking about the films that keeps me so entertained (other examples: Stay Alive and Lake Placid 😂)
Yes he’s a dog in the book too! They kind-of try to search for this odd dog who ran off of the boat, but it’s not seen after that but there are some reports of the dog in the town, especially near that cemetery that Mina and Lucy sit at. Harker (when he’s captive in the castle) goes to his actual coffin, sees him, but is freaked out. He’s trying to get a room key from him while he sleeps but he can’t find it. Anyway!
I saw this movie and while it has flaws it was a fun watch for me. And I like Dracula being just a straight up monster that doesn't take on a fully human form but always looks like a beast. And I would say Dracula has some scary moments like when people catch glimpses of him or when he is flying around in the fog.
1:05:17 Literally my exact experience in high school with The Phantom of Opera novel! I had never seen the musical and had made assumptions about the characters from the songs. Then I started reading the book, realized I didn’t know what was going on at all and suddenly couldn’t stop reading.
Addresing Vampire under water question: the 3 part Netflix Dracula series has that. Spoiler alert but that's how he survives the Demeter sinking if I recall correctly. He underwater walks his ass to England
This was fun to watch. Normally I only listen to the podcast and for some reason today I decided to watch it..and Molly ... I have a dog and this is life and it just made it all the more delightful
3:40 I have been that hungover once in my life, it was a Sunday morning and my parents (I was still living at home) were afraid to leave me home alone in case I passed out again and drowned in my own vomit (Dad lost at least one friend in high school that way), so I came to church with them and huddled in the back seat of the car, in winter, bundled in a thermal sleeping bag, and just was so nauseous and miserable and gross, while my parents poked their heads out the church door every 10 or so minutes to make sure I wasn’t dead 🥲 Then we went to the pastors house because we already had lunch plans with them 🫠 All in all a day that lives in personal infamy 😂
In my opinion this should have been advertised like the film "underwater" where the Dracula and *insert underwater spoiler here* elements were an added surprise and going in it should have just been a monster on a boat type premise.
So the Captain of the Demeter in Dracula didn't necessarily want the ship to reach England! I'll quote the end of his log at the end of this comment. My understanding is that he tied his hands with the crucifix to the wheel specifically so that Dracula couldn't steer the ship. If you look at Mina's diary, you see that Dracula had to crash the ship to shore using his power over the weather. " But I am captain, and I must not leave my ship. But I shall baffle this fiend or monster, for I shall tie my hands to the wheel when my strength begins to fail, and along with them I shall tie that which He, It, dare not touch. And then, come good wind or foul, I shall save my soul, and my honour as a captain. I am growing weaker, and the night is coming on. If He can look me in the face again, I may not have time to act . . .If we are wrecked, mayhap this bottle may be found, and those who find it may understand. If not . . . well, then all men shall know that I have been true to my trust. God and the Blessed Virgin and the Saints help a poor ignorant soul trying to do his duty . . ."
It was thought in ancient times that the only sure-fire way to kill vampires is to submerge them in running water. People believed that spirits could not cross running water, which therefore, would temporarily separate the vampire from the bonded souls of their victims, which they must release first. So forget about a vampire living in the ocean.
This is one of my favorite movies of 2023 mainly because it’s one of the interpretations of the events that happened in the Dracula novel since that chapter in the book itself is left a little vague
You guys should do a podcast on Poor Things and how close it resembles Frank Hennenlotter’s Frankenhooker and what else Mary Shelley’s work has influenced.
One of the reasons I believe it bombed is that it never got a theatrical release in the UK. Don't know about other countries, but I'm in the UK & I was actually looking forward to the release date. I'm not sure what happened, but I think the company that was meant to distribute it to theatres was bought & that always causes problems.
Became a fan fan of this channel since I accidentally stumbled on it back in 2018. This channel instantly became my go "lunch watch" every Friday during my lunch break. Would love to see you bring back and finish the kill counts for the George A Romero Universe "Land / Diary / Survival of the Dead."
There's a few chapters of Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing that deals with a deep lake full of fish vampires actually! It's great, like the rest of the series.
I really liked the "Dracula" show Netflix did a couple years ago. *In the Netflix show, the crew sunk the boat and Dracula was in a casket at the bottom of the ocean for like 140 years and gets woken up in in the present time
I know that in the UK the distributor never even bothered to release it, as they apparently, as a cost-saving move, decided to not show ANY of their upcoming theatrical releases (Demeter included). No idea whether this would have saved the film (which I enjoyed) from bombing as much, but I think that that move probably hurt the movie's box office even if it saved the company money on promoting it here and stuff. Also, yes, they had a physical boat set, and the Dracula make-up was mostly physical and augmented with CG. There's behind the scenes stuff of it being applied. :)
i love that chelsea got to work with one of the danganronpa voice actors for a thing!! that makes me happy, i can't imagine how happy she is lol. congrats chels!
This movie never got a UK release of any kind. Not even streaming. It was having trailers shown in the cinema and was then pulled last minute as the distributor was bought out
I ended up using a VPN to rent this from a US site because I don't like missing a podcast episode. This film was fine. I didn't really like or dislike it. I've seen worse films recently (Night Swim and Exorcist Believer). Also, we need to get the Paranormal Activity films in on the Toby-count.
It’s actually like 90 percent practical they had a whole suit built for him, and prosthetics yall should really look at the behind the scenes stuff 😂 it’s actually really impressive.
Omg at first I thought James' shirt had a large round collar with black piping and I was like WERRRRŔK. but then I realized it was just the mic cord... but now I'm inspired to make a similar shirt
I actually really enjoyed this, 1st time in a long while they made Dracula scary & feral instead of aristocratic. Him actually changing his appearance overtime & getting stronger was great. I thought the final scene with him at the pub in clothing seemed a perfect segue turning into nosferatu
I finally watched this last night having never seen any reviews, and now watching this I’m surprised so many people seem to hate it. Granted I’m starting to realize I may just like bad movies but I generally loved it, even considering all the times I asked “wtf are you doing?” out loud
58:28 in the movie Daybreakers that’s actually how you cure a vampire. If they get burned enough in the sun but get extinguished either by water or whatever they stop being a vampire. So there’s been a similar concept. Somewhat.
Read the rest of the book, Chelsea. One of the things that I really like a lot about the book is how Dracula is a force of nature, evil incarnate like Michael Myers or the shark from Jaws. This movie seems to be taking that approach which is nice. Now I want to see a podcast of the Francis Ford Coppola Bram Stroker’s Dracula! That would be a fun discussion.
One thing that is a pretty crucial part of the novel is xenophobia. It’s actually a pretty dang racist book that makes a foreign man a literal horny monster-reflecting English fears of foreign invasion and particularly the supposed virility and promiscuity of the foreign men coming to corrupt the pure white women of England. Like, it’s a great book that hugely popularized and defined the vampire, but it’s also a very good reflection of the fears and prejudices of English society.
8:18 - Actually it was a mix of both. There was a ton of CG like when he killed the cook or when he was holding Clemens up in the 3rd act. However a lot of scenes like when he is seen by the crew and runs into the darkness right before he kills the cabin boy was actually Javier. If you go back and rewatch with that knowledge it makes for a slightly better experience seeing which parts are CG or Javier.
Speaking of games, you guys gotta play Alan Wake 2!! Feels such like a True Detective feel with Silence of the Lambs too. The story is insane too. Enthralled. With great scares.
Re: Dracula / Vampires under water, there's an entire thing about Vampires not being able to enter / cross running water. As with all vampire lore whether or not vampires are true to that is luck of the draw. Twilight vampire just walk across the bottom of the ocean at some point.
Dracula swimming would be exhausting just like how when regular people swim for a while they get hungry, same with dracula, I'm sure he can drown but not die, since he's always undead. I assumed when he went to the row Boothe glided to it and hid under the boat swimming to get back to the ship
I also was surprised when I read the descriptions of Dracula in the novel and struggled to re-picture him instead of picturing what had become the classic go-to look for the character.
I work as a fisheries biologist and spend a lot of time on boats so I can confirm that there really are a lot of ‘weird’ superstitions at sea. One that I find to be wild is that almost all of the captains I’ve met will not set out on a Friday. It sounds silly but a few months ago a boat my friend was on left port on a Friday and lost their lifeboats! SPOOKY!!!
Speaking of getting emails during the holidays...I got drunk after the Rose Bowl and sent you a rambly one. I don't drink so it his me HARD. Sorry about that, but Go Blue!
About underwater Vampires, in OG Dracula lore Vampires can not cross running water. I don’t think it’s explained what happens to them but I assume it means they just can’t move. So as a response Toby would just be frozen at the bottom of the ocean. All of OG Bram Stroker’s lore is based on vampire, undead, and werewolf mythology from multiple European cultures. It’s really wild to figure where Stroker got all his lore from and the research he did for this book.
If you're curious about underwater vampires, then Alan Moore explores the idea briefly in his run of Swamp Thing. Not a perfect exploration of your question, but he does show them thriving beneath the water. Regardless, his run of Swamp Thing is worth the read.
The thing with the Universal version is that it's based more on the interpretation presented by the play and not the original Stoker novel, this is also why Bela wanted to/and lobbied HARD to play Drac since he was already him in the play
The dark universe failing might be the best thing to happen to universal. Without it who knows if we would’ve had invisible man or these different interpretations of Dracula with Demeter and Renfield
I know of at least two bits of horror media that specifically dealt with vampires going underwater: In the film Daybreakers, what happens to a vampire when they're underwater is a major plot point that sets a lot of the events in the film in motion. And if you read horror comics, there is an issue of Alan Moore's Swamp Thing, where a band of vampires move into a deep lake and evolve to live underwater, pulling people down when they try to swim there. Both are well worth checking out if you haven't.
I agree with their points in the film. But I'm genuinely fascinated byJames' weird hang up about Dracula flying to the rescue boat to kill the cook...like he's isolated, he's not gonna get help from anyone, he's not getting away and clearly he didn't have to fly far to reach him if he sent his dead body back to the ship so quickly. It's not like he flew to another country to find the guy. There's a lot of things wrong with this movie, that part wasn't one of them.
I would love if you guys would cover more gothic horror on the podcast! It's my favorite subgenre of horror and some of my favorites are Crimson Peak, Sleepy Hollow, and Bram Stoker's Dracula!
One of the best Swamp Thing comics of all time involves underwater vampires. In that one, the vampires can survive in stagnant water, but not in running water, so natural water currents are dangerous to them.
if u buy the movie or look online for delete scenes the beginning had a different start where u see a wolf get off the ship and they had a different ending where mr Clemens visits his father's grave also i wish they would do a sequel where mr clemens meets van helsing or they make him fight dracula alone and to me this dracula seems more like nopheforatu sorry spelled it wrong
According to the weird British Dracula series from a few years back, Dracula can not only survive the ocean, he can essentially freeze in it like Captain America for over 100 years while it feels like mere seconds!
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You're the Best 😊😊😊😊🎉🎉🎉🎉
When is the JW Dominion comming out???
Since u have already kill counted season 1 2 and 3 of stranger things when will season 4 kill count be coming
Ps love ur vids
Please do season 4 stranger things
I think something that this movie really wanted to highlight, which I also think people have a hard time wrapping their heads around sometimes due to other iconic portrayals, was the actual nature of Dracula's character. He isn't a man who can transform into a monster. He's a monster pretending to be a man. So, in an environment where he doesn't need to pretend anymore cause the only goal is to kill, we're gonna get a wildly different side of him shown. Just the monster.
I can see that angle but we don't really get to contrast it with him pretending to be a man untill the ending. He mostly just acts like any other monster
@@MaMastoast I sort of don't think the contrast is actually needed because Dracula is so ubiquitous. It's like they were saying in the review: the movie pre-supposes you know who Dracula is. It doesn't need to do the legwork to give a comparison because the viewers are already used to Legosi and Oldman and Cage as the monster disguised as a man. The movie instead sets out to show you what those characters would look like if they didn't need to hide in plain sight and could instead kill a cast of dumb sailors uninhibited.
@@MaMastoastand even in the ending, it was ridiculous - hes fooling no one with that disguise, i laughed so hard about how ridiculous it was💀
@@TravioliRavioli Well we can assume he still has his powers of hypnosis and persuasion so he can probably make people see him as a normal man if he wants.
I really enjoyed the take on Dracula in this as a feral, hungry beast. I love Anna's description of him as a demon that disguises as a man. Great episode! Really hope Godzilla Minus One is covered next
It was weird to me as I usually associate the feral pestilence aspect of vampires with Nosferatu with Dracula being the classy, sexy vampire. I know they're ultimately derived from the same source material, but I feel the cinematic history of both lineages over the past century has speciated the two somewhat.
@@KentuckyKaiju I like the fact that Dracula is both, but is deprived of an abundance of blood on his journey, so he doesn't have the power to transform into the sexy version. Also a sexy, seductive Dracula really wouldn't work in the atmosphere of this film.
@@BTT16Plus, I feel like it’s a reminder that Dracula’s suave, charming side isn’t part of his personality- it’s a weapon to facilitate hunting in a ‘civilized’ society. If he could drop the pretense and be bestial all the time, he would. It’s less effort
That „disguise“ in the end was a joke 😂😂😂
@@harmonlanager2670 Some would say that's a universal statement, really, since that applies to the predatory nature of people, too.
Lucy slowly opening the door in the background is the best horror movie of 2024 so far.
It was Mike Flanagan level of scary because I was intently watching and all of a sudden the door moved and it did get me 😅.
Lolol came here to comment that!
I thought i was tripping man. then saw chealsea reach down. Me: oh its the cat..
The fact that in the book he escaped as a dog reminds me of the start of The Thing. In the book, Dracula is not as strong in sunlight but it doesn't kill him since he walks around in the day. In the book part of the deal is that Dracula can cloud minds, which works in the screen life feel of the book. Dracula mocking people reminded me of The Predator. The idea with the vampire mermaid has been explored but the reason you don't see vampires in the sea is because running water is one of their weaknesses in certain vampire lore. Stagnant water is ok but any type of water with a current whether that be salt water or fresh water will cause disintegration of their flesh, not the burning sensation of holy water but the same end result. It is why Dracula didn't just fly from Romania to England. That Frankenstein sequel would be a cool idea since that would be the climax part of the original book. Interesting podcast as usual y'all.
The crew spent their days doing their regular work. As men started going missing, the remaining men had to do extra duties and got very little sleep. It was generally the steersman or watchman who went missing at night, while everyone else was asleep. The whole crew searched the ship once but didn't open the boxes so they only learned what was happening as it was happening to them. The first mate was pissed at everyone being superstitious, at first. He eventually figured it out and pretty much went mad. When it was only him and the captain left, the first mate opened the caskets until he found Dracula. He was so mad by that point that he didn't even try to kill him. He just ran to the deck, shouted a warning to the captain, and jumped overboard. At that point, only the captain was left and he was convinced the first mate had gone nuts and killed everyone. He had to stay at the wheel from then on and he saw Dracula at night. At that point, he updated his log, put it in a bottle and sealed it, then tied himself to the wheel with a rosary around his hands, in the hope that it would protect him from Dracula. He accepted that, as captain, it was his duty to go down with his ship. He kept the bottle with the log in it on himself in the hopes that if the ship sank, someone would eventually find it and understand why they all died. The final log entry doesn't indicate if the captain was hoping to go out to sea or to eventually hit land. His only hope was that the rosary would protect him and save his soul.
If you read this whole thing and have never read the book, I suggest signing up for Dracula Daily on substack This guy sends out each entry in the book (it's letters, telegrams, journal entries, newspaper clippings) by email, each day that appears in the book so you read it in the "real time" of the book. The emails start on May 3 and end on November 10. If nothing happens in the book on a particular day, you don't get an email.
For anyone curious, early vampire myths say they can't cross running water. The gravedirt (it's not just from his home, it's specifically from where he was buried) is partially to get around THAT issue, hence him not leaving the ship until it reached shore. The movie didn't stick with that, but that's the reason for how the book went. In answer to the underwater vampire thing
They did that for Astrion in BGIII and people joked that the party would have to carry him over rivers so we need dracula being carried by Renfield like a newlywed couple
Yes, Dracula needs to sleep on native soil to restore & recharge. I wonder how high a sleep number "I lay in a wooden coffin lined with earth from my homeland" is.
So in the book, if I remember correctly (and I might be confusing events with various adaptions, please feel free to correct me), Count Dracula has just bought property in England through Jonathan Harker, and personally chartered the Demeter to take 50 boxes of earth (dirt from the country where he was born, because that’s how he restores his powers) to England. I think he stows away inside of the boxes, so the crew don’t know he’s there, and he’s the one that kills the crew (because he needs blood during the voyage, which lasted weeks to months). As for why the Captain is tied to the steering wheel, I always interpreted it that Dracula did that, because otherwise he’d be stuck in the ocean. After escaping the boat in the form of a dog (because Dracula can shape shift in the book), he sends people to collect the boxes because it is his property and there’s no evidence he’s involved.
EDIT: Chelsea mentions the extra crew member, that’s probably Dracula.
Read Dracula in Oct. You pretty much summed it up!
I always thought the Captain lashed himself to the steering wheel as a last ditch effort to make the ship go out to sea and keep Dracula from getting to England. If I recall he was said to have a cross on him, which repelled Dracula and wouldn't allow him to remove him to steer. Dracula then summons the storm to make winds fierce enough to direct it to England anyway.
@@elfinmouse, oh right. I forgot Dracula was an airbender in the book. Man was so OP.
@Anthintendo in the books I believe there's an off hand comment about the fact he's taught by the devil to acquire all these extra OP powers. Man's a demon university graduate
Good summary but one other spooky and interesting aspect is that from the Captain’s perspective he seemingly never directly saw Dracula, from his perspective members of the crew were vanishing and he didn’t know what was going on if I recall correctly in one of his last logs the Captain drew the conclusion that his first mate had gone crazy and was killing the crew.
To confirm as someone who took a history of western medicine class, we did use to just give blood transfusions before blood typing. It was just thought it was a chance you die from a transfusion but the chances where low enough that it was worth the chances or else you would have definitely died. I was impressed at how accurate they got to how old blood transfusions were done. RIP Huckleberry he deserved the best boy who tried to fight dracula
My professor's brother worked on this movie. The amount of preproduction to post-production work was absolutely insane. We learned about the process of making this movie from someone who actually worked on it, and even though it's not my favorite movie, you can still appreciate all the work put into it.
Don't really like the movie, but it's true, we should do our best to respect the work put into it
I was thinking what if the Dracula with the top hat on disappearing into the fog was kind of a nod to Dracula taking on the role of Jack the ripper
Chelsea’s hair is AMAZING in this episode ❤
She’s hot
No one asked though
Regarding the water thing I believe that one of the parts of (the incredibly messy) vampire mythology is the idea of them not being able to cross bodies of water, partly because of the likely real life inspiration of rabies and on a metaphorical level either because bodies of water are holy because it comes from the heavens or because of the vampires not being able to cross boundaries unless permitted and bodies of water are natural barriers.
Funny how a lot of traditional anti-vampire strategies line up with basic disease/pandemic protocols (limiting contact, natural barriers like running water, holy/purified water, etc)
I've also heard that it's specifically running water, because the flow of the stream can supposedly wash away impurities. I think it's supposed to correlate to Christian belief that Baptism by water washes away sin and reborn you pure of soul, which would sound pretty bad for a vampire.
Hydrophobia
@@KentuckyKaiju A lot of mythology and superstition, if you squint, kinda looks like reactions to maladies, threats, disorders, and anomalies that are better understood now but would have been mysterious in origin to our ancestors. For example, the food available to a pregnant woman will influence the development of her fetus and in early agricultural societies where food is heavily dominated by seasons it would be easy for our ancestors to notice that people born at different times of year had different traits and behaviors, especially as children. That's the seeds of astrology, right there.
On a darker note, the symptoms of autism become evident in babies right around the time that children now get their vaccines, leading to *that* famous misunderstanding, but it's also about the age that our ancestors believed the fey would snatch their children and replace them with changelings...
The two of you overflowing with praise for both Obra Dinn and Outer Wilds makes me so happy. "Those are two of the best game experiences ever." HARD agree.
I love that Chelsea said Dracula likes to play with his food and in the new Abigail trailer the ballerina vampire says she likes to play with her food first.
The door moving at 3:13 SCARED ME SO BADLY
50:35 I have a simple answer for James, remember how you said that Dracula mocked his victim (taunted their voices) before killing them?!.... Knowing that is his character, it's not a stretch at all to think he would send back the boat to simply 'mock' any attempts of escape his victims have. Essentially psychological warfare, anytime, all the time.
To recommend a way of reading Dracula that's 'easier' I really suggest Re:Dracula. It's a Podcast where they tell the story of Dracula in chronological order and was inspired off of the email phenomenon Dracula Daily, which did the same thing! The voice acting and sound design is incredible. It's worth a shot if you haven't read the book and actually answers the underwater Dracula question!
Second this! I was really struggling to get through the book by reading/via audiobooks but the sound design, the music and the characters being voiced by different actors really helped me stay engaged with the story.
Third this. I especially loved the Captain's Log entries. The Captain's voice broke my heart.
4th this.. I specifically came to the comets to either make this comment or find this comment.
I really enjoyed the weird vampire lore in it, my favorite part is how Dracula can transport via moonlight, hence how he gets into the locked room to bite the kid, he gets in via the moonbeam in the room
8:58 I love how you can see Molly just staring Lucy down in the doorway haha. Adds some background drama to the ep
The episode where both are able to coexist peacefully will have a saccharin comment section.
They need to make this a Van Helsing origin. Clemons is a man of science and research, so have him struggle to make sense of the world of the world through different experiences like this one. Van Clemsing.
Have him encounter the Wolf Man, Frankenstein/his monster, the mummy, and the creature from the black lagoon on his journey to kill Dracula. I dont care how that may or may not screw up all of the cannons, that shit would be sick
I was definitely expecting him to either have the last name Van Helsing (and having that be revealed in the tavern) or him meeting Van Helsing/ going to meet the guy later on.
I know it's supposed to be Abraham van Helsing but it would tie in so neatly
I really liked The Last Voyage of the Demeter. Finally a Dracula movie where he’s a terrifying monster instead of just a man. One of my favorite movies of the year. Hate that it didn’t do well in the box office (I blame Universal for barely marketing it).
But man the movie absolutely perfected that dark, ominous, helpless atmosphere. It felt creepy and dark from start to finish.
My only gripes were the lack of gore and too much cgi used on Dracula. He looked way scarier and more terrifying with the practical suit and effects. Still a great movie imo.
As UK fans we were royally shafted with this one with its lack of UK theatrical release and no streaming!
The movie is actually shortlisted for best makeup at the oscars (and they are very much into prostetics and heavy makeup) so I think they just added a weird amount of cgi to the vampire
I fucking hate that movies are doing this now. Why make an actor sit for HOURS of makeup if you’re just going to make it look so CG you can’t even tell if it’s an actual person. It’s fucking pointless
@@wesjall I know, like I get having some cg if needed because maybe the face or movements get too still or something, maybe you need to do something that makeup or practical effects wouldn't archive, but to put that much so your work gets lost maybe just use all cgi and call it a day
If you’re looking for a better (and shorter) version of this movie, just watch the Love Death and Robots episode “Bad Traveling”. It was directed by David Fincher and also deals with a monster on board a ship during old maritime days picking off the crew one by one. I found this 21 minute short film to be a much more engaging and much less repetitive version of Last Voyage of the Demeter. If you left Demeter disappointed and wanting more, then try this since it’s such a quick watch.
heck yea, Bad Traveling is an amazing episode 👌
Bad Traveling is really good but I feel like this movie was really good too
Dude I loved that episode but didn’t realize David Fincher directed it which is awesome as hell
Was thinking the same thing. That episode is much more effective than this movie imo
Solid fucking recommendation, one of my favorite episodes of that show. Glad more people are talking about it
As someone who is inordinately attached to the Demeter section of Dracula, I appreciate Chelsea for calling out how much better the book section is. I support every usage of the phrase "In the book" in this episode!!
I surprisingly liked this movie more than I thought when I saw it in theaters, I do gotta say it’s one of my all time favorite designs for Dracula and just take on the story but his design in this movie was awesome
A big part of vampire lore in general is that they are weak to running water. I feel like if you are deep enough in the ocean, it would not matter. I think most vampires would not want to risk the journey up and down from the water just in case.
I was the opposite. I flew through Dracula, but struggled through Frankenstein. I ended up loving both. Dracula's ending is so insane it's way worth the finish.
Love the Outer Wilds and Obra Dinn appreciation! If you guys liked those, I wanna suggest What Remains of Edith Finch and The Case of The Golden Idol
My favorite episodes are the ones where you two cover movies that you kinda liked or didn’t like at all. There’s always so much emotion still when talking about the films that keeps me so entertained (other examples: Stay Alive and Lake Placid 😂)
*They see Dracula right off the bat...* Was that an intentional pun by James or no? Either way, I love it.
Yes he’s a dog in the book too! They kind-of try to search for this odd dog who ran off of the boat, but it’s not seen after that but there are some reports of the dog in the town, especially near that cemetery that Mina and Lucy sit at.
Harker (when he’s captive in the castle) goes to his actual coffin, sees him, but is freaked out. He’s trying to get a room key from him while he sleeps but he can’t find it.
Anyway!
Yup, and that’s how I learned that the ASPCA has been around since the 1800s 😂 the book mentions that they were leading the search for the dog lol
Honestly the most underrated movie of 2023
Agreed
I think that title belongs to No One Will Save you
Absolutely enjoyed this movie, saw it in the theater
100% Agree
@ryang6931 I think it was polite society.
Y'all are one of the only channels I still watch consistently. Great stuff 👏
Vampires often cannot cross running water, so undersea vamps with classic weaknesses are unlikely.
I can't wait for the day when Lucy and Molly become friends and host their own Podcast episode "Best Animal Owners in Horror."
Dracula is not CG in the film (for the most part). It is make up and practical. This is why it was shortlisted for the Oscar for the make-up.
I saw this movie and while it has flaws it was a fun watch for me. And I like Dracula being just a straight up monster that doesn't take on a fully human form but always looks like a beast. And I would say Dracula has some scary moments like when people catch glimpses of him or when he is flying around in the fog.
This is my second favorite movie about a vampire on a boat.
The first one is 1992's Dracula.
In most vampire lore, Vampires can't deal with running water like lakes, rivers, streams, and the ocean. That's why Dracula needs a ferry at all.
1:05:17 Literally my exact experience in high school with The Phantom of Opera novel! I had never seen the musical and had made assumptions about the characters from the songs. Then I started reading the book, realized I didn’t know what was going on at all and suddenly couldn’t stop reading.
James not remembering the ice luges of new year’s past is so funny 😂
Another Gundam enjoyer!!! May his 4 dark devas bless you all!!
Addresing Vampire under water question: the 3 part Netflix Dracula series has that. Spoiler alert but that's how he survives the Demeter sinking if I recall correctly. He underwater walks his ass to England
This was fun to watch. Normally I only listen to the podcast and for some reason today I decided to watch it..and Molly ... I have a dog and this is life and it just made it all the more delightful
I love the more monstrous interpretations of Dracula instead of the sparkly, handsome versions brought up by Twilight
3:40 I have been that hungover once in my life, it was a Sunday morning and my parents (I was still living at home) were afraid to leave me home alone in case I passed out again and drowned in my own vomit (Dad lost at least one friend in high school that way), so I came to church with them and huddled in the back seat of the car, in winter, bundled in a thermal sleeping bag, and just was so nauseous and miserable and gross, while my parents poked their heads out the church door every 10 or so minutes to make sure I wasn’t dead 🥲 Then we went to the pastors house because we already had lunch plans with them 🫠 All in all a day that lives in personal infamy 😂
In my opinion this should have been advertised like the film "underwater" where the Dracula and *insert underwater spoiler here* elements were an added surprise and going in it should have just been a monster on a boat type premise.
I ended up finally playing DR because of the kill count! So fun to hear me and Chelsea have the same fave character (and ship lmao)
So the Captain of the Demeter in Dracula didn't necessarily want the ship to reach England! I'll quote the end of his log at the end of this comment. My understanding is that he tied his hands with the crucifix to the wheel specifically so that Dracula couldn't steer the ship. If you look at Mina's diary, you see that Dracula had to crash the ship to shore using his power over the weather.
" But I am captain, and I must not leave my ship. But I shall baffle this fiend or monster, for I shall tie my hands to the wheel when my strength begins to fail, and along with them I shall tie that which He, It, dare not touch. And then, come good wind or foul, I shall save my soul, and my honour as a captain. I am growing weaker, and the night is coming on. If He can look me in the face again, I may not have time to act . . .If we are wrecked, mayhap this bottle may be found, and those who find it may understand. If not . . . well, then all men shall know that I have been true to my trust. God and the Blessed Virgin and the Saints help a poor ignorant soul trying to do his duty . . ."
It was thought in ancient times that the only sure-fire way to kill vampires is to submerge them in running water. People believed that spirits could not cross running water, which therefore, would temporarily separate the vampire from the bonded souls of their victims, which they must release first. So forget about a vampire living in the ocean.
This is one of my favorite movies of 2023 mainly because it’s one of the interpretations of the events that happened in the Dracula novel since that chapter in the book itself is left a little vague
You guys should do a podcast on Poor Things and how close it resembles Frank Hennenlotter’s Frankenhooker and what else Mary Shelley’s work has influenced.
9:48 I would LOVE a dead meat coverage of crimson peak 🥰🥰
I actually like how they gave drac a creepy look
obsessed with chelsea’s sweater, it’s soooo cute!!
so happy this movie is being talked about!!!
Same one of my favorite movies of the year. Imo it didn’t get the recognition it deserved
One of the reasons I believe it bombed is that it never got a theatrical release in the UK. Don't know about other countries, but I'm in the UK & I was actually looking forward to the release date. I'm not sure what happened, but I think the company that was meant to distribute it to theatres was bought & that always causes problems.
I feel so much better knowing Chelsea hasn't finished Dracula either lol 😅 solidarity
Became a fan fan of this channel since I accidentally stumbled on it back in 2018. This channel instantly became my go "lunch watch" every Friday during my lunch break. Would love to see you bring back and finish the kill counts for the George A Romero Universe "Land / Diary / Survival of the Dead."
There's a few chapters of Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing that deals with a deep lake full of fish vampires actually! It's great, like the rest of the series.
I really liked the "Dracula" show Netflix did a couple years ago.
*In the Netflix show, the crew sunk the boat and Dracula was in a casket at the bottom of the ocean for like 140 years and gets woken up in in the present time
I know that in the UK the distributor never even bothered to release it, as they apparently, as a cost-saving move, decided to not show ANY of their upcoming theatrical releases (Demeter included). No idea whether this would have saved the film (which I enjoyed) from bombing as much, but I think that that move probably hurt the movie's box office even if it saved the company money on promoting it here and stuff.
Also, yes, they had a physical boat set, and the Dracula make-up was mostly physical and augmented with CG. There's behind the scenes stuff of it being applied. :)
i love that chelsea got to work with one of the danganronpa voice actors for a thing!! that makes me happy, i can't imagine how happy she is lol. congrats chels!
8:49 sheeshhhhh Chelsea’s hair looks gorgeous!! 😍😍
This movie never got a UK release of any kind. Not even streaming. It was having trailers shown in the cinema and was then pulled last minute as the distributor was bought out
I ended up using a VPN to rent this from a US site because I don't like missing a podcast episode. This film was fine. I didn't really like or dislike it. I've seen worse films recently (Night Swim and Exorcist Believer).
Also, we need to get the Paranormal Activity films in on the Toby-count.
I worked with the kid from Mallrats that said “a schooner is a sailboat, stupid head!”. He was a pretty funny guy, really nice too
It’s actually like 90 percent practical they had a whole suit built for him, and prosthetics yall should really look at the behind the scenes stuff 😂 it’s actually really impressive.
Omg at first I thought James' shirt had a large round collar with black piping and I was like WERRRRŔK. but then I realized it was just the mic cord... but now I'm inspired to make a similar shirt
I actually really enjoyed this, 1st time in a long while they made Dracula scary & feral instead of aristocratic. Him actually changing his appearance overtime & getting stronger was great. I thought the final scene with him at the pub in clothing seemed a perfect segue turning into nosferatu
I finally watched this last night having never seen any reviews, and now watching this I’m surprised so many people seem to hate it. Granted I’m starting to realize I may just like bad movies but I generally loved it, even considering all the times I asked “wtf are you doing?” out loud
58:28 in the movie Daybreakers that’s actually how you cure a vampire. If they get burned enough in the sun but get extinguished either by water or whatever they stop being a vampire. So there’s been a similar concept. Somewhat.
Read the rest of the book, Chelsea. One of the things that I really like a lot about the book is how Dracula is a force of nature, evil incarnate like Michael Myers or the shark from Jaws. This movie seems to be taking that approach which is nice. Now I want to see a podcast of the Francis Ford Coppola Bram Stroker’s Dracula! That would be a fun discussion.
One thing that is a pretty crucial part of the novel is xenophobia. It’s actually a pretty dang racist book that makes a foreign man a literal horny monster-reflecting English fears of foreign invasion and particularly the supposed virility and promiscuity of the foreign men coming to corrupt the pure white women of England. Like, it’s a great book that hugely popularized and defined the vampire, but it’s also a very good reflection of the fears and prejudices of English society.
I was happily surprised with this movie!
This movie is great I loved it
8:18 - Actually it was a mix of both. There was a ton of CG like when he killed the cook or when he was holding Clemens up in the 3rd act. However a lot of scenes like when he is seen by the crew and runs into the darkness right before he kills the cabin boy was actually Javier. If you go back and rewatch with that knowledge it makes for a slightly better experience seeing which parts are CG or Javier.
For some reason every time they said Toby i was picturing Toby from Pranormal Activity and that made this a lot more fun
Speaking of games, you guys gotta play Alan Wake 2!! Feels such like a True Detective feel with Silence of the Lambs too. The story is insane too. Enthralled. With great scares.
Re: Dracula / Vampires under water, there's an entire thing about Vampires not being able to enter / cross running water. As with all vampire lore whether or not vampires are true to that is luck of the draw. Twilight vampire just walk across the bottom of the ocean at some point.
45:47
The one and only adult Toby is Toby Flenderson from The Office, of course.
Was 100% ready to say your house is haunted before I remembered Lucy and Molly exist.
Dracula swimming would be exhausting just like how when regular people swim for a while they get hungry, same with dracula, I'm sure he can drown but not die, since he's always undead. I assumed when he went to the row Boothe glided to it and hid under the boat swimming to get back to the ship
I also was surprised when I read the descriptions of Dracula in the novel and struggled to re-picture him instead of picturing what had become the classic go-to look for the character.
I work as a fisheries biologist and spend a lot of time on boats so I can confirm that there really are a lot of ‘weird’ superstitions at sea. One that I find to be wild is that almost all of the captains I’ve met will not set out on a Friday. It sounds silly but a few months ago a boat my friend was on left port on a Friday and lost their lifeboats! SPOOKY!!!
i can’t believe David Dastmalchian isn’t an official friend of the show yet, he’s such a horror lover and so knowledgeable
I was also at the Rose Bowl! And just got back from Houston! Go blue!
Speaking of getting emails during the holidays...I got drunk after the Rose Bowl and sent you a rambly one. I don't drink so it his me HARD. Sorry about that, but Go Blue!
According to IMDb in the Lost Boys “Michael” is said approximately 118 times.
About underwater Vampires, in OG Dracula lore Vampires can not cross running water. I don’t think it’s explained what happens to them but I assume it means they just can’t move. So as a response Toby would just be frozen at the bottom of the ocean.
All of OG Bram Stroker’s lore is based on vampire, undead, and werewolf mythology from multiple European cultures. It’s really wild to figure where Stroker got all his lore from and the research he did for this book.
If you're curious about underwater vampires, then Alan Moore explores the idea briefly in his run of Swamp Thing. Not a perfect exploration of your question, but he does show them thriving beneath the water. Regardless, his run of Swamp Thing is worth the read.
The thing with the Universal version is that it's based more on the interpretation presented by the play and not the original Stoker novel, this is also why Bela wanted to/and lobbied HARD to play Drac since he was already him in the play
The dark universe failing might be the best thing to happen to universal. Without it who knows if we would’ve had invisible man or these different interpretations of Dracula with Demeter and Renfield
I know of at least two bits of horror media that specifically dealt with vampires going underwater:
In the film Daybreakers, what happens to a vampire when they're underwater is a major plot point that sets a lot of the events in the film in motion. And if you read horror comics, there is an issue of Alan Moore's Swamp Thing, where a band of vampires move into a deep lake and evolve to live underwater, pulling people down when they try to swim there. Both are well worth checking out if you haven't.
I agree with their points in the film. But I'm genuinely fascinated byJames' weird hang up about Dracula flying to the rescue boat to kill the cook...like he's isolated, he's not gonna get help from anyone, he's not getting away and clearly he didn't have to fly far to reach him if he sent his dead body back to the ship so quickly. It's not like he flew to another country to find the guy. There's a lot of things wrong with this movie, that part wasn't one of them.
I would love if you guys would cover more gothic horror on the podcast! It's my favorite subgenre of horror and some of my favorites are Crimson Peak, Sleepy Hollow, and Bram Stoker's Dracula!
One of the best Swamp Thing comics of all time involves underwater vampires. In that one, the vampires can survive in stagnant water, but not in running water, so natural water currents are dangerous to them.
if u buy the movie or look online for delete scenes the beginning had a different start where u see a wolf get off the ship and they had a different ending where mr Clemens visits his father's grave
also i wish they would do a sequel where mr clemens meets van helsing or they make him fight dracula alone and to me this dracula seems more like nopheforatu sorry spelled it wrong
According to the weird British Dracula series from a few years back, Dracula can not only survive the ocean, he can essentially freeze in it like Captain America for over 100 years while it feels like mere seconds!