Ugh... Until I started filming this video I didn't appreciate how difficult it was going to be to say anything about these swords without having to explain every geographic region and culture and list all the exceptions to most things you can say about them...
@@scholagladiatoria It is a struggle. Can't be too specific, or be too vague. In the end, your point was heard. "Shamshir" and "Kilij", in a modern sense, refer to specific swords, but etymologically, both refer generically to "sword".
@@ninjastyle5187 Arabs of the early caliphates used straight swords similar to Byzantine ones, the spread of curved swords came to middle-east with spread of steppe soldiers and cultures, especially after Mamelukes and Timurids came to control large parts of it.
@@somerando1073 I'm pretty sure Matt made whole video discussing this issue at some point. Basically, we don't really know which people originally invented the curved saber-style sword, just that it emerged _somewhere_ in the general area ranging from eastern Europe to Mongolia. Which, you know, doesn't really narrow it down very much.
about the definition of the Shamshir word i should say the word is mixed of two parts: First part is SHAM that means Tail(and also nail in middle persian) Second part is Shir that means lion So the word Shamshir means The lion's tail(or nail or claw) And since the lion is the symbol of bravery and killing power and its tail is curved so in Persia they called this type of curved swords SHAMSHIR.
@@SimoLInk1698 AFAIK the name was supposed to hit home the idea that "this is NOT a sword, it's a KNIFE", because commoners were not allowed to wear swords. @Alireza: Thanks for explaining. That's interesting.
before seljuk turks, shamshir was an straight sword. The central asian (oghuz Turkman) curved sabre adopted by persians and they think its originally persian.. the truth is this curved shamshirs are originally a type of Turkish kilij goes back to Seljuk Turks.
@@ejdermengov Both right and wrong Right for the definition of the Persian swords before central Asian influence but wrong about Persian belief about curved swords Look Persians never claimed that curved swords are their creation but they think its the Arab invention and most of the modern Iranians don't know that the idea of having curved swords didn't come from Arabs but from the central Asian Turk/Mongoloid people Even modern Iranian movies and series which built around the history of Islam representing Arabic swords as curved ones which is completely wrong but they are not aware of that That's it
scholagladiatoria 1:40 "Often known as memluk style hilt." It called Armudi in Turkish. Armut means pear (fruit) and Armudi means "pear like" 9:54 "I don't know what you call that" That part of the yalman named as Mahmuz which means "spur" in English.
In the west it's called a Mameluke sword due to it having been popularized by Napoleon's troops bringing back swords as war trophies from the Egypt campaign. Egypt at the time was ruled by the Mamelukes (or mamluk, originally slaves) who used this type of sword which was typical in the middle eastern world at the time. I guess the French didn't really care what other cultures called them, and just thought of them as "the swords that the Mamelukes use." Interesting that you call them "pear like." I'm guessing due to the shape of the pommel?
@@RelativelyBest that's right. That's a really favored shape in the late Ottoman era. And I knew the Napolean's campaign made them popular in the west. Even after the coalition wars as I remember correctly there was one British regulation sword for high ranking officers with that kind of pammel. (google check; 1831 Pattern)
You are correct, "kılıç" is just the general word for "sword" in Turkish, similar to the word "gladius" in Latin. It just probably stuck to the most commonly used specific type of sword at the time in Turkish speaking countries.
@Jon Goat Yes that's kinda true. We call all of them Turkish because we can understand each other. You can travel from Istanbul through all of Asia and you can end in the north of Mongolia without a need for another language other than Turkish. There are lots of Turkic languages as well.
@@The_Crimson_Fucker when following a colon, asterisks have been used to indicate an action taken rather than words spoken, so he may be aware that leaving out the spaces *boldens* the text.
12:43 "Sayf"/ "Saif" (سيف) is the generic Arabic word for sword which to my understanding is used to refer to all swords, the plural being "Suyouf" (سيوف) but does tend to connote the curved, Middle Eastern style swords.
@The Bengalee Sceptic I agree. It doesn't seem that "Sayf" (سيف) refers to a Kiliç-esque blade but rather, a blade closer in characteristics to a Shamshir (شمشير) of the Persian type. However, I could always be mistaken.
@@D_M_U I thought "saif" was more commonly used to refer to the straight middle-eastern swords used in the early Islamic empire. But I could be wrong, I'm not Arab.
@@Aa-dc2xu I'm not Arab either, but after studying Arabic for the military and having been exposed to the language through friends and acquaintances, it seems it's used as a general word for sword and refers to both in normal speech. Although, when used in English, it does seem that the use of the word, "saif" / "sayf", does tend to have the connotation of the curved Arab/ Middle Eastern variety, albeit if speaking Arabic, the term would be used to refer to any sword as it is simple the Arabic word for, "sword".
@@D_M_U Fair enough, I knew that saif was the word for sword in Arabic. I think it was a wiki article (the one called the "arab sword") I read a year ago which made me thought that saif mainly referred to arab straight swords. Now that I think about it, wiki probably wasn't the best place to research such a confusing topic lol.
I am Arab. The word saif is a sword. Doesn't matter which kind it's the word that directly translates into sword in English. If an Arab wants to talk about a specific sword he would specify by adding an adjective like saying Saif Arabi (Arabic sword), Saif Turki (Turkish sword) , Saif Farsi (persian sword) or Saif Yabani (Japanese sword); in this case I'd just say Al-Katana (the Katana). Ps: Arabic sword is the straight double edged one used by the early Islamic, Arabic conquests of the Middle East... If you feel like calling the Arabic sword a "Saif" it's ok Trivia: Saif is actually a somewhat common male name in the Arab world even nowadays
I was going to say the same thing. To add to this, the Mameluke hilt sword was issued to all Marine Corps officers and was meant as a service sword. However, they did switch to the Army Model 1850 Foot Officer's sword from 1859 - 1875, basically just prior to and for a while after the Civil War.
@@itsapittie From what (little) I've read, it was because the Mamaluke hilted sword, as issued, was deemed ineffective in hand to hand combat (blade shape/size was inadequate) and the hilt didn't offer enough protection.
@@Riceball01 if it is like the CS version, then I'd be surprised about poor cutting and thrusting capabilities. However, their version might lack the distal taper of the original. The reach should be pretty average actually. Only the lack of hand-protection stands out to me.
What a coincidence! I was just digging through your old videos looking for stuff on kilijs and yatagans. I recently found instances of these swords all over depictions of the 1820s Greek Revolution and in other parts of the Balkans.
The curved swords arriving at the Middle East via Central Asia is mostly correct. However, them being adopted by the Ottoman and the Persian empires is kind of a strange statement. The general evidence suggests that curved swords were brought along with Turkic speaking peoples to the Middle Eastern world as they traded with them and migrated around. One of the Turkic(Or Turkish; it depends...) empires that was formed in Middle East with its centre in Persia (strangely enough the majority of Persia was ruled by Turkic speaking peoples up until a very recent date) is the Seljuk Empire. There are a lot of swords that were made in the Seljuk Empire (1037-1250-ish) that are pretty much curved swords. Most of these swords predate the Crusades and the idea of Ottomans adopting the design from Timurids(?) (as they were the only "horse-people" that fought with the Ottoman Empire) seem to be incorrect. And again Timurids were pretty much a large horde of various Turkic speaking tribes in modern-day Uzbekistan and Iran. I can share the pictures of a couple of these Seljuk-made swords as finding photos of them is pretty easy here. (Some even have curves that look katana-ish!)
It is a very complex point to convey in one or two sentences on a video :-) The point I was trying to make was that these swords came from Central Asia and did not appear first in the Ottoman or Persian Empires. Indeed those Empires included people from Central Asia, but the swords themselves appeared in Central Asia and were taken to those regions. So I was talking more about the regions than the people per se.
@@scholagladiatoria Ah yes, they didn't pop up in those empires for sure. However, the trade between these nomadic peoples and the arabic-speaking world seems to be established quite early as even the early muslim Caliphs seem to have owned somewhat curvy and unsurprisingly ornate swords. Anyway, I appreciate and enjoy your videos! If you're ever in need of some photos or sources about the medieval Middle East, I'm always eager to help as I literally study it :)
@@commoner__ !! What's the context in which you study the medieval middle east Blake? I ask because I'm interested in pursuing postgraduate study in the topic and have yet to meet any others with the same interest. I wish there was a PM function on youtube... As there isn't afaik, feel free to reply via email if you're interested in a convo :) ryeka.morituri@gmail.com
I'm positive you're aware of the Roman (Byzantines) curved sword called the Paramerion Παραμήριον...probably taken from Turkic tribes as well except the hilt was of typical European type. Makes me wonder when exactly the distinctive Kılıç/shamshir hilt became developed... Great as always, Matt!
@Magnat Karabela was also in ottoman turkey, and came from turkey to Poland. The name is actually turkish, means Black Curse. But yeah, poland used them both as karabela bojowa and karabela kontuszowa
@@jozefkozon4520 Literature from the PRL will always have flaws as a consequence of isolationism and a desire for lost and suppressed nationalistic pride. We need to move past the limitations of authors back then and accept that the mistakes they made were not an intentional slight on other cultures, or a willingness to be inaccurate, but merely a consequence of the times, and their situation. Zablocki did his best, and his contribution to the field should not be tarnished by a few omissions.
If you like Matt, you might like Lindybeige and Skallgrim too? Both of them have done videos on bronze weapons. Though, I'd like to see Matt's take on them too.
The swords of Borneo would make an interesting topic, particularly the "parang ilang" and "mandau" of the highlands: as far as I know, they are the only blades forged with a _lateral_ curve.
Thank you Matt for sharing this with us. Beautiful swords. The " Shamshir" and " kilij/pata" are some of the most aesthetically pleasing swords imho. Something about the simple hilt and graceful curved lines. Thanks again sir! Cheers
"islamic" Funnily enough, the swords used by the very earliest caliphate and Muhammad's followers were straight generic double edged ones. These came later.
Indeed: the Egyptians continued to use straight swords into the Crusades, eventually adopting the Turkish style swords. The African Caliphates and Sultanates continued to use straight swords into the 19th century.
@@scholagladiatoria you did it for the vidz did you?
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in 9:41, "Little Step" is "Mahmuz" which means "Spur" in english but also means "Martle" in English sword terminology. Also, the "Mahmuz (or spur)" is the end point of the back section of the sword which means "Sırt (or Back)". The remaining Yalman (or false edge) is not considered part of the "Sırt (or Back)"
You touch on how the mamaluke style sword ended up in somewhat common usage in Europe following Napoleon's invasion of Egypt, but that style of sword also became regulation for United States Marine Corps officers following the Barbary Wars in 1801-1805 and 1815 and still is to this day.
All that was about 400 hundred years of using sabre (according to western usage "curved sword" in Hungary, Poland and Russia. Sabre probably came west from Central Asia or Mongolia (The "Saracens" - Arabs - in 11th cent., before Seljuk Turks came, wielded straight swords. Dtto the Persians warring with Romans and Eastern Romans.)
That was a nice introduction to this kind of oriental swords.. All Islamic culture used to have familiar types of swords.. And I believe that all the names mean sword in different languages Shamshir, glitch, or even Saif which means sword in Arabic as well..
Your description about the star-shape crossguard is quite nice and maybe this type of crossguard is a part of culture connection.If you see the early sasanian sword,they don't always have this type of guard.But we can see some similar guard on chinese sword(Sui and Tang dynastry).The overall size is small ,the quillon and langets are not so prounanced but the shape is almost same,even the +-shape ridge line is the same as crossguard in early arabic/turkish swords.
Thanks for this, Matt, it's extremely interesting, and very useful to me, as I want to do some research on Ottoman Empire (1840s and Crimean War period) swords and swordsmanship. Much obliged!
Thank you for the expansion of your repertoire to include the only sword I’ve ever carried, and still do on occasion today: the United States Marine Corps Officer Sword, which legend has it (and I’ve seen the original in our National Museum of the Marine Corps) derives from the Mameluke Sword awarded to one of our officers in Tripoli.
Curved swords are the swords used by the Central Asian Turks first. After 900 BC, they were taken to India thanks to the Ghaznavids Turks in the 900s and to the Middle East thanks to the Seljuk Turks in the 1000s. Mamelukes are a state consisting of maize ruling and military class Turks. When you say the Mamluk sword, you say the Turkish sword. Finally, Turks are not a single sword type; Kilij, Heavy Kilij, Gaddare, Şaşmir, Karabela, Dımışki, Yatağan and many more types of swords according to their intended use.
While the words Shamshir , Kilij and Saif mean "sword" in their respective languages , nowadays it mainly refer to stylistic types of swords popular in certain areas in the english language by collectors and people interested in swords. So , Shamshir: a style popular in persia , Kilij: a style popular in turkish regions , Saif: a style popular in arabic regions , that doesn't mean you can't find all off these styles in one area . For example you can find an Ottoman Shamshir style sword , which I suspect the one shown here is . While I'm not an expert ; but usually Shamshirs have iron pommel cap , while the rounded pommel is more common in the Kilij.
You're absolutely right that turkish swords tend to use that rounded pommel and persian swords used the pommel cap - even if they both had identical "shamshir style" blades.
Yes, this painting has been much discussed and it is now well documented that very curved sabres were sometimes held backwards (particularly in France) in order to deliver a thrust.
As far as I know (and I'm no expert on this) light cavalry with these curved swords used them in the charge with the blade inwards (i.e. backwards to what'd be considered standard doctrine). The blade with the edge on the inside would be aimed at parts like the neck or wrist of enemies & you'd try to make contact with the edge just short of the tip of the blade. Then as the cavalryman passed the target, you'd rotate & flick your wrist sideways turning the thrust into a prolonged slash. I know some Indian light cavalry that used this technique in addition to light lances. Once you lost your lance you'd use the sabre in this method. They were said to be able to decapitate infantry in one passing strike if they could target the neck.
Especially India had many forward-curved blades like this, but this one looked more like a Kilij being held wrongly. I honestly see no point in holding it as in the image for delivering a thrust. Such curved blades are meant to be pointed at the opponent to cut while riding by so to speak. If you point with the point instead, it wouldn´t penetrate much, but extract itself automatically. Holding inversely could disarm you! Lastly, I could imagine holding a Katana or maybe a Shamshir with the thick spine facing the opponent in order to whack someone on the helmet.
Arabian swords were baiscally straight for the most part before islam and even for a fair while after islam and we didn't really adopt this style of sword until the migration of steppe tribes into Anatolia. Curved swords are best suited for use on horseback as it's great for cutting because it comes in full contact and continues to slash even after the strike with little effort to it. Curved swords didn't replace straight swords in the Middle East as both were produced and used in great numbers. The reason one might think curved swords replaced straight swords in the Arabian Peninsula is parades and festivals, curved swords replaced straight swords for the most in this regard. Also saif, kilij and shamshir are the same words in a different language, you can call a european sword a saif or a kilij or a shamshir, because that's what it is, a sword! This complication of what is named what doesn't exist for the most part in Arabia, Turkey or Persia coming from experience, so i think that shouldn't be a worry. Also great review Mr.Easton as you always do! nice to see our swords get some love :)
@@YunusKULL I'm talking with arguments, you don't have so that's why you don't know what to say. Look at history of your own country and then come here to talk.
Great stuff! I really enjoyed this video. Very interesting. Saif does indeed mean 'sword' (and I pronounce it 'safe' and have not heard anyone pronounce it differently), in fact Pakistan has four frigates named, 'Zulfiquar', 'Saif', 'Aslat', and 'Shamsheer', all of which are simply words meaning sword (and if they had a fifth it'd probably be called 'Talwar'). I think only 'Zulfiquar' is named after a particular sword, but not necessarily a particular type of sword, in the sense that 'Excalibur' was a particular sword rather than a type of sword...Anyway, good vid.
Yes indeed Zulfiqar named after particular sword. This particular sword (Zulfiqar) was prophet Muhammad's sword and later was used by Hazrat Ali ibn Abi Thalib. The meaning of Zulfiqar isn't actually sword, Zulfiqar derived from "dhu" meaning possessor, holder. And "faqar" meaning spine, vertebra. So Zulfiqar means "that which has spine", or some interprete as "cleaver of the spine".
Yes ''Kılıç'' means sword in Turkish. Janissaries (light leather armored agile elite units of the ottomans) were armed with those as well as bows till they switch to Handcannons(Muskets). They were not stopping after victories. They conqueror castles to castles won wars even against heavily armored enemies. They were expanding like crazy!
Also the are more types persian sword like "Qame" which is a double edged short sword amd more like ancient greet swords. Or "Qadare" which is just lile qame but single edged. Both have no guards and very much like a machete. But essentially the desendants of the ancient achaemenid akinakis....also there's "khanjar" which is a dagger but with a curved blade much like shamshir
Hello Sir, thank you for the video but I don't agree with the idea you mentioned about 15:45. In fact curved swords offer more range in cutting. Let's compare an european classical straight one handed sword and a one handed curved sword and both have the same lenght blades. If you want to take a cut from your opponent, you have to make the angle between your arm and the sword to slide the sharp edge upon the opponent, which reduces the combat range. Otherwise, the sword will stuck or won't do a decent damage obviously. With a curved sword, this angle would be greater than the angle you make with a strait sword to have the same effectiveness in cut. Because curved swords already have this angle allowing you to have more range in cutting. Of course they are handicapped in thrust.
"Shamshir" in Persian literally means "lion's tail", but it is used as a general term for "sword", and various other forms of the word were used by ancient Persians to refer to swords in general. "Saif" on the other hand is Arabic for "sword", and is pronounced exactly like the English word "safe".
Shamshir is tiger claw not tail... sham is claw shir is tiger.... in Arabic is Saif not safe .... and Saif is main word of sword but in Arabic has many meanings of sword or Saif such as Faisal, Hussam, ec
Yes there is obviously some sort of relationship between early kilij and the Byzantine paramerion, though as far as I understand it, it's difficult to tell which direction the influence went in - the Byzantines were employing a lot of mercenaries and bringing in weapons and fashion from outside. Though we know that Byzantine fashion did have an influence on the early Islamic world.
Your Ottoman sword is an example of the cross-fertilisation between the Ottoman Empire and Europe. The multiple narrow fullering of the blade is a characteristic of Hungarian sabres. Many Hungarian-style trade-blades were made in Germany and exported to Eastern Europe and the Ottoman Empire in the late 17th and 18th centuries. I have an Ottoman sword with a typical 'Mameluke' hilt and Turkish scabbard, but the blade is multi-fullered (identical to yours), but does not have an expanded yelman, and is etched with a European guilloche pattern and a crescent moon and stars on one side and a radiant sun and stars on the other. It is a German blade. Your sword looks like it has a Turkish blade, but one heavily influenced by Hungarian-style imported blades. European blades were appreciated by the Turks for their resilience, they were less likely to take a set or to suffer from edge chipping than their own blades. However, Turkish blades were very hard and could hold a sharper edge for longer.
İ didn’t get the last part but i think i should’ve say something about these magyar (hungarian) effect on turkish swords. First of all, multiple narrow fullering isn’t unique in ottomans, seljukians, nor other turkish&turkic states. İ can show you many types of sword just like that who used them didn’t meet with magyarians. Yet, That could be true, because turks and magyars were neighbour back the time. And, most of you saw named as kilij, but actually wasn’t kilij, they aren’t good example of turkish martial combat. Turkish sword was curved, thats true, but their sword wasn’t arabians&persians. Nowadays i searched for kilij, i can only see a type of example, an example which we didn’t call it as a sword, it’s name is pala (could be pata) and anyone thinks like it was ottomans general swords. Man, thats hurt. İt wasn’t popular sword, it wasn’t even a sword. Pala mean is equal to machete. You know, it wasn’t using as well as they’d think. www.turkeyfamousfor.com/ottoman-turkish-swords/ These are some “real” examples of turkish martial stuffs. And And why i wrote that much, i dunno, i’m just sick of it. You know, getting count with some people which you got no things in common, thats suck.
Ottoman, memluk, Selcuk, Persian, arabic... all these namings don't matter when you say Central Asia... because it means Turkic tribes. And the shape of kılıç explains it perfectly. It's shaped like that so you can use it back on a horse easily. You can see the same practicality with the Turkish bow also. It's short so you can point and turn it front to back of horse while riding it at full speed...
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Hi, I almost agree with your assertion about curved blades, and the fact that having a straight part + a curved part gives more reach. But Europeans didn't "misinterpret". There are still a lot of plades from Iran and eastern parts of Iran (mostly Nordic if I remember, like Uzbekistan and Kyrgyztan) that are curved at the begining of the sword and completely curved until the end, forming an arc of circle. The reach is completely lost but the idea is to "play" with the circled shape having more cutting power, agility and alignment. (Also if I remember correctly)
Wait,does the calvary saber from around 1840 took inspiration from the Kilij ? Because i found the curvature and the false edge position on the blade is very similar
Saif is an Arabic word means sword its origin is old but in old Egypt during farouhs time which was sfet . shamshear means claw of lion. beautiful channel.
My Grandfather is from Arabia and inherited me his old sword (a shamshir of Persian production). I'm curious what you think about the comparison of one handed sword and buckler as well as shamshir and small shield!
@@Tareltonlives Batorówka is any sabra that have that particular king on the blade. If you are interested in the topic i would sugest Włodzimierz Kwaśniewicz "Dzieje szabli w Polsce". However i'm not sure, that it were ever translated. Also Richard Marsden have a book tat is more about context in regard to that weapon.
in Arabic there is many names for a Sword Saif - Sword Housam= decisive Sword Mohanad = Sword with white blade Djawhar = Sword with Damascus steel blade thou Fikar = double side blade this is what i remember for now there still so many other names for every and each type of Sword and name of each part of a Sword and the curved Sword was know to Arabs before Islam
In Persia shamshir alongside saif and qılınc/qılıç were the words that people used for swords. saif was broadly used by most of the islamic world and nearly everyone who was a muslim regardless of his ethnicity used it (mostly in literature) alongside shamshir, qılıç etc. Shamshir was also sometimes used broadly and not just by Persians mostly in literature, and qılınc/qılıç was the word which Turkic tribes used.
The word (sayf) or صیف means sword in Arabic. And the word (shamshir or شمشیر) is basically means sword. Edit:I'm originally persian but I know a bit of arabic too.
Matt, clear this up for me, you said the hats of hussars were inspired by the eastern Islamic world as well, Is this why the brim of light cavalry hats looks so much like the metal brim that lots of older Turkish and middle eastern helmets had? I have often wondered about this and just chalked it up to that it is a good design(lets you still see while protecting from blows sliding down) and the fact that around the world there are often different people coming up with similar solution to the same problem even without contact. But obviously it would make a lot more sense if it was directly influenced by the older design.
Jon Goat Actually the turks (ottomans) were established in balkania, anatolia, caucasia. And those areas got nothing to do with “middle east, near east, or any east”. As you can see throuhg this video too, there were differencess. Not only by making swords, pretty much with everything. We’re calling ourselves as european as italian or russian are, but nowadays, especially lately there s been foolish information ‘round these part of history. We all should wait and pray for back to normal.
Jon Goat İ got you first time, still something wrong with that comment. Before the turks (or turkic troops) arrived to iran platoon, arabian peninsula, or african lands, their “islamic” sword was particularly straight, double edged, broad. Just like the western europeans. So, this type of desing is not originated by “them”. And sir, i don’t know about other muslims and their idenity, in my book turkey and and ottomans are&were not an islamic state. We did take only the religion, rest of it isn’t similar with them. Thanks for the quick answer though, but i must leave now. Take care.
Jon Goat Just like that sir. You did your research, not enough though. Before Selim the one, ottomans were using these reputation of islamic... literature. As i said, they used it to make their name bigger. Also since the Mehmet ii, ottomans called themselves as heir of roman empire and all their lands. They got success on it, but obviously not for the western part of romans. For the Muhammed stuff, it’s called in the country “holy deposits”. İn some museums, you can see them behind fancy glass, even can touch some of them, taking pictures and all. You gotta pay for the ticket though :). Turk’s idenity of islam closer ortodox christian than arabians, or persians. And this way of the living the religion, has no resemblance close state-religion relationship as like catholics, or arabians has. And i’m glad we’re doin’ it that way. İ’m doin’ it that way. İf i got the same thaughts with anti turk-circissian-bosnian “white boys of european”, we’ll find ourselves in a fight which no one gonna win for it. Because nowadays this idea are raising in turkey, also other caucas and balkanian muslims.
@Jon Goat in islamic tradition you have to descent from mohammad to be a caliph, something that is extremely absurd by ottoman usage of caliph. Many contemporary or modern islamic scholars dont consider them caliphate.
@@eliaswomersley9802 Arabic is a beautiful language but, Persian and Arabic are two different languages but they use the same alphabet. Persian is an Indo Eroupian language but Arabic is a Semitic language. There has been several attempts to change Persian alphabet to Latin alphabet since some phonetic can not be expressed soundly by Arabic alphabet. But since this might result in losing Persian ancient laterature from 1500 years ago we still use Semitic - Arabic alphabet.
I looked at that and initially thought, “what is raashamash?” And then realized what Matt did and laughed at myself. Glad someone put the correction in already شمشير
Since you seem to be interested in the the history of the names of different swords, you might want to connect with the channel Alliterative. It specializes in tracing the complex history of words. You could do a crossover with him. His video would cover the complex history of sword names and yours would cover the matching swords. I hope this sounds interesting to you. While his target audience is different from yours, I am sure that there are other people who are interested in both topics.
Vocabulary varies by language, time, place, technical knowledge, social class, *and* social context. Worrying about ""the"" historical name is an exercise in frustration. "Most [historical] people" never once stopped to think about terminology. They called it some word for "bladed thing".
Of course, the English word “sword” just means “sword,” and as anyone who’s been involved in this hobby (and/or watched more of Mr. Easton’s videos) will know calling something a “sword” doesn’t really narrow down the particulars.
Another feature that gave this Islamic sword an edge on the battlefield was its hook design, which allowed its cavalry users to literally cut their enemies with a single blow from the shoulder to the loin, unlike straight swords attached to the victim’s body.
Is the length past the sudden curve in the pala actually useful? I imagine it's primarily to extend the center of percussion further away from the hand, because it seems really difficult to meaningfully strike with that portion of the blade
Persian is a right to left language, you have it written left to right as in English and the letters in their isolated form (that's how the letters are written when they appear by themselves, not in words). Good video though, very informative!
swords with yalman is a characteristic of the turkmen and the adjacent turkic tribes, same design inspired the tulwar which appeared after the turkic invasions of delhi. Ottomans are the direct descendants of the turkmens, and ottomans were one of the "vanguard tribes" of the seljuks who fought against the crusades. so the seljuks did infact fought with curved blades, and they had yalmans.
according to some philologists and linguisticians the word "Shamshir" is a combination of two word : in Persian "Shir" means "Lion" and "Sham" means "Cold" so the word means "Cold Lion" and you know there was a special lion in Persia until 150-200 years ago slightly different from African lion
the Ottoman kilij you have presented has a Hungarian blade and it is not "typical Ottoman" at all. Hungarian and Polish blade developed from the 16th-century Ottoman kilij blades and split during the 17th century becoming separated types of blades. Yelman ist the right term for the point and comes from the ruthenian language, as much I know. As much I can see, the grip was renewed. Usually, such grips are from rhinoceros. Concerning terminology: shamshir (pers.), kilij (turc.) and sayif (arab.) mean the same thing - sword. Cheers!
According to our culture the saif is straight swords doesnt matter single or double edged similar to firangi The 'golia' is sword that is curved from the strt
Hussars are not from Polish influence. Polish Hussars pretty much died out. Hussars started as Serbian mercenaries fighting for the border countries with the Ottomans. Coming into Hungry and Poland they took different paths. The Hungarian ones eventually became light cavalry and are where the hussar influence in Europe came from.
Correct, The Polish Hussars were a medium to heavy cavalry while the Hungarian Hussars were a light cavalry and the base of the later western cavalry of the same name.
I was under the impression the the Hussar influence in Europe came from Byzantine light cavalry witch was some long Greek word that was shortened to hussar
One of the oldest sabres with a false edge is the so-called "sword of Charlemagne", "sabre of Charlemagne" or "sword of Attila" in the Kunsthistorisches Museum of Vienna (not to be confused with the "sword of Charlemagne Joyeuse" in the Louvre. In reality it is a magnificent princely magyar sabre of the 10th century AD which has never been buried under ground. The same kind of swords are found in that period pagan Hungary often also decorated. It has a gilded silver inlay decoration all along the blade. The hilt is more angled than on the later Islamic versions, but this helped with the reach issue. Just as mentioned, in that period the Arabs were using straight swords and still did for a long time, much like the Byzantine sword, I guess till the Seldjouk Turk conquests when Central Asia came down on the Islamic world.
In East Europe this kind of weapons was popular too... especially for cossacs and native cavalry (central asia and caucasus origin) serving Cars and independent russian Dukes way before 17 century...
@scholagladiatoria is it a reasonable statement to say that curved swords became popular as full plate harness started losing popularity? It is after all generally the case that curved blades are specialized for cutting cloth and flesh rather than defeating armour, and while I can't find good data on the state of armour technology in the Islamic world during that period the timeline does seem to work if one assumes it was fairly similar to the armour seen in western Europe. Am I missing some other important factor here or am I broadly on the right track, would you say?
in the middle east and central asia, armor was mostly leather or cloths, with some addition of small metal segments to protect some vital places and it was nowhere similar to the iconic renaissance or crusader armor its even known that mongols used paper armor, and it worked well to repel arrows so this is why sharp edged sabers evolved to defeat leather and paper armors
I might be wrong, but you didn't mention that this kind of weapons came into use in Europe in the XIV century in Hungary, then they were popularized in Poland in the XV/XIV century (the szabla), and from Poland they became widespread in western Europe. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
Mehmed II the Sultan who Conquered the Byzantine Empire had a nice looking Kilij. 2/3 of the blade is single edged while 1/3 of it is double edged. The hilt is made out of ivory from a walrus tusk... keep in mind Asia Minor is very far away from the Arctic Ocean.
During the Crusades the swords of the Islamic armies were curved, During the Abbasied era, Central Asian Turkic slave soldiers were taken into the Islamic military and Turkic tribes will eventually conquer the Middle East. The first Crusade happens during the Seljuk Era Middle East, which was Central Asian in origin ( they used curved swords) Eventually 1 tribe of Seljuk Turkey will create the Ottoman Empire and they obviously also used the curved swords. Same with the Mameluke Egyptians. The Mamelukes were of mostly Turkic(Steppe) origin and kept the curved sword aswell. Even though the dynasty has shiftef from Turkic to Circassian later on, the Circassians kept the Turkic customs (language, clothing and swords). Earliest curved swords in Europe is mostly due to Hunnic invasions and after that the later Hungarian( Magyar) invasions. The Hungarians prior moving to Europe were close to Central Asia and seems like they also adopted the curved sword in an early stage. They would conquer into Central Europe around the 7th century. You did have other Steppe invasions who brought the curved sword into Europe aswell prior to the Ottomans like the Avars.
The Mameluke Sword was given to Marine First Lieutenant Presley O'Bannon (USMC) by the Ottoman Empire viceroy, Prince Hamet, on December 8, 1805, during the First Barbary War, in Libya, as a gesture of respect and praise for the Marines' actions at the Battle of Derna (1805). Upon his return to the United States, the state of Virginia presented him with a silver-hilted sword featuring an eaglehead hilt and a curved blade modeled after the original Mameluke sword given to him by Hamet. Its blade is inscribed with his name and a commemoration of the Battle of Tripoli Harbor. Marine Corps Commandant Archibald Henderson adopted the Mameluke sword in 1825 for wear by Marine officers.
shamshir(شمشیر) its persian (iran) sword and old word SHAM Means nails or tail (I said that the word is old) SHIR Means lion SHAMSHIR Means Lions nail or Lions tail.I'm persian and i think lions tail is true👌 قمه and خنجر and قداره another old persian wapons
Reminds me of a video you did quite a while back on the evolution and dispersion of curved swords. If I remember correctly, you also speculated on the dispersion of the curved sword design into East Asia, but did not know enough at the time to comment authoritatively on that topic. Since then, have you had a chance to look into this a bit more. I seem to recall that Japanese sword blades become more curved during the imperial court's wars against the Emishi and reading some speculation that the Emishi curved swords may have been influenced by NE Asian continental swords vs the straight double edged Chinese inspired swords that the imperial court's forces were initially using. Perhaps Metatron has more information on this?
Does anyone know a good site to buy a shamshir? (To train with) I don't trust those new european versions which are available online.. or do I have to look for an antique?
When you say "Persian Empire" around 11:58, what country do you mean exactly? The Safavid Empire? The Timurids before them? The Ilkhanate? Some even earlier polity? Or some later one?
Question - what did the crusade - era swords from the middle east look like, the straight bladed ones,? Now I'm curious. I've seen ones with slightly curved grips but straight double edged blades. Did they look like that?
Are the hidden tang hilts without the rivets constructed the same way talwar are made? held in by sticky tar resins and left to dry. Or do they use some other method?
I enjoyed the longwinded attempt to avoid defining them as "scimitars" or a similar term. Very appreciated.
Ugh... Until I started filming this video I didn't appreciate how difficult it was going to be to say anything about these swords without having to explain every geographic region and culture and list all the exceptions to most things you can say about them...
@@scholagladiatoria It is a struggle. Can't be too specific, or be too vague. In the end, your point was heard. "Shamshir" and "Kilij", in a modern sense, refer to specific swords, but etymologically, both refer generically to "sword".
@@ninjastyle5187 Arabs of the early caliphates used straight swords similar to Byzantine ones, the spread of curved swords came to middle-east with spread of steppe soldiers and cultures, especially after Mamelukes and Timurids came to control large parts of it.
@@ninjastyle5187 Really? I had thought they came from Steppe horsemen.
@@somerando1073 I'm pretty sure Matt made whole video discussing this issue at some point. Basically, we don't really know which people originally invented the curved saber-style sword, just that it emerged _somewhere_ in the general area ranging from eastern Europe to Mongolia. Which, you know, doesn't really narrow it down very much.
10:00 we call it "the hammer", while the section with the false edge is called "the feather"
about the definition of the Shamshir word i should say the word is mixed of two parts:
First part is SHAM that means Tail(and also nail in middle persian)
Second part is Shir that means lion
So the word Shamshir means The lion's tail(or nail or claw)
And since the lion is the symbol of bravery and killing power and its tail is curved so in Persia they called this type of curved swords SHAMSHIR.
I have rolled down for a long time untill someone had allso mentioned that.
And then you have then Germans being like "Yeah we'll call this thing LONG KNIFE"
@@SimoLInk1698 AFAIK the name was supposed to hit home the idea that "this is NOT a sword, it's a KNIFE", because commoners were not allowed to wear swords.
@Alireza: Thanks for explaining. That's interesting.
before seljuk turks, shamshir was an straight sword. The central asian (oghuz Turkman) curved sabre adopted by persians and they think its originally persian.. the truth is this curved shamshirs are originally a type of Turkish kilij goes back to Seljuk Turks.
@@ejdermengov Both right and wrong
Right for the definition of the Persian swords before central Asian influence but wrong about Persian belief about curved swords
Look Persians never claimed that curved swords are their creation but they think its the Arab invention and most of the modern Iranians don't know that the idea of having curved swords didn't come from Arabs but from the central Asian Turk/Mongoloid people
Even modern Iranian movies and series which built around the history of Islam representing Arabic swords as curved ones which is completely wrong but they are not aware of that
That's it
scholagladiatoria 1:40 "Often known as memluk style hilt." It called Armudi in Turkish. Armut means pear (fruit) and Armudi means "pear like"
9:54 "I don't know what you call that" That part of the yalman named as Mahmuz which means "spur" in English.
Actually there is little wrong knowladge on your writing but i dont know english well to explain
Not BOYNUZ but MAHMUZ: Which means SPUR
@@cemalhunal2659 Thank you for the correction. You are right. It's mahmuz.
In the west it's called a Mameluke sword due to it having been popularized by Napoleon's troops bringing back swords as war trophies from the Egypt campaign. Egypt at the time was ruled by the Mamelukes (or mamluk, originally slaves) who used this type of sword which was typical in the middle eastern world at the time. I guess the French didn't really care what other cultures called them, and just thought of them as "the swords that the Mamelukes use."
Interesting that you call them "pear like." I'm guessing due to the shape of the pommel?
@@RelativelyBest that's right. That's a really favored shape in the late Ottoman era. And I knew the Napolean's campaign made them popular in the west. Even after the coalition wars as I remember correctly there was one British regulation sword for high ranking officers with that kind of pammel. (google check; 1831 Pattern)
"You see those warriors from Egypt? They've got curved swords. Curved. Swords."
-Napoleon, probably.
Gold
I am proud of you
Sabres were already in use due to the influence of Slavic hussars at Napoleons time. Good meme though.
Mirth...
@@hatejethro1164 yeah and they're based on Middle East people weaponry culture. Even before the Islam came.
Western person: Kilīc, Samsher, pulawar, tulwar. I want one of each.
Turk, Persian, Afghan & Indian: How many swords do you want then?
Western person: yes.
I am ok with my AK47
Jon Goat yay nerds!!
@@antonm8719
Ak 😍😍😍
@@antonm8719 literal mongrel of stg44 with m1 rifle lol
You are correct, "kılıç" is just the general word for "sword" in Turkish, similar to the word "gladius" in Latin. It just probably stuck to the most commonly used specific type of sword at the time in Turkish speaking countries.
Jon Goat well, people kept things simple
Can I think kilij means sword in all the Turkic languages
@@Ake-TL That's right with some changes. It's one of the oldest words in Turkish.
Jon Goat turkic*, like descendants of turks,not modern turks, but like gokturk khaganate turks
@Jon Goat Yes that's kinda true. We call all of them Turkish because we can understand each other. You can travel from Istanbul through all of Asia and you can end in the north of Mongolia without a need for another language other than Turkish. There are lots of Turkic languages as well.
D&D People: It's a scimitar.
HEMA People: * roll initiative *
You're not supposed to put a space between the asterisk and first or last letter of what you're trying to embolden.
Hema People roll nat 20's across the board rip rip rip rip rip
@@The_Crimson_Fucker when following a colon, asterisks have been used to indicate an action taken rather than words spoken, so he may be aware that leaving out the spaces *boldens* the text.
@@kylethomas9130
I know but on TH-cam the custom is to embolden actions.
@@The_Crimson_Fucker when I say 'have been used,' I should have clarified before TH-cam.
12:43 "Sayf"/ "Saif" (سيف) is the generic Arabic word for sword which to my understanding is used to refer to all swords, the plural being "Suyouf" (سيوف) but does tend to connote the curved, Middle Eastern style swords.
@The Bengalee Sceptic I agree. It doesn't seem that "Sayf" (سيف) refers to a Kiliç-esque blade but rather, a blade closer in characteristics to a Shamshir (شمشير) of the Persian type. However, I could always be mistaken.
@@D_M_U I thought "saif" was more commonly used to refer to the straight middle-eastern swords used in the early Islamic empire. But I could be wrong, I'm not Arab.
@@Aa-dc2xu I'm not Arab either, but after studying Arabic for the military and having been exposed to the language through friends and acquaintances, it seems it's used as a general word for sword and refers to both in normal speech. Although, when used in English, it does seem that the use of the word, "saif" / "sayf", does tend to have the connotation of the curved Arab/ Middle Eastern variety, albeit if speaking Arabic, the term would be used to refer to any sword as it is simple the Arabic word for, "sword".
@@D_M_U Fair enough, I knew that saif was the word for sword in Arabic. I think it was a wiki article (the one called the "arab sword") I read a year ago which made me thought that saif mainly referred to arab straight swords. Now that I think about it, wiki probably wasn't the best place to research such a confusing topic lol.
I am Arab. The word saif is a sword. Doesn't matter which kind it's the word that directly translates into sword in English. If an Arab wants to talk about a specific sword he would specify by adding an adjective like saying Saif Arabi (Arabic sword), Saif Turki (Turkish sword) , Saif Farsi (persian sword) or Saif Yabani (Japanese sword); in this case I'd just say Al-Katana (the Katana).
Ps: Arabic sword is the straight double edged one used by the early Islamic, Arabic conquests of the Middle East...
If you feel like calling the Arabic sword a "Saif" it's ok
Trivia: Saif is actually a somewhat common male name in the Arab world even nowadays
The US Marine Corps Officer sword is of a Mameluke style and is modeled after the one gifted to Lt. Presley O'Bannon during the First Barbary War
I was going to say the same thing. To add to this, the Mameluke hilt sword was issued to all Marine Corps officers and was meant as a service sword. However, they did switch to the Army Model 1850 Foot Officer's sword from 1859 - 1875, basically just prior to and for a while after the Civil War.
@@Riceball01 I did not know that. Do you know what the rationale was for the change?
@@itsapittie From what (little) I've read, it was because the Mamaluke hilted sword, as issued, was deemed ineffective in hand to hand combat (blade shape/size was inadequate) and the hilt didn't offer enough protection.
@@Riceball01 if it is like the CS version, then I'd be surprised about poor cutting and thrusting capabilities. However, their version might lack the distal taper of the original.
The reach should be pretty average actually. Only the lack of hand-protection stands out to me.
@@Riceball01 If anyone ever gets the chance to head down to Virginia/DC the Marine Corps Museum has the original sword - its really cool
What a coincidence! I was just digging through your old videos looking for stuff on kilijs and yatagans. I recently found instances of these swords all over depictions of the 1820s Greek Revolution and in other parts of the Balkans.
The curved swords arriving at the Middle East via Central Asia is mostly correct. However, them being adopted by the Ottoman and the Persian empires is kind of a strange statement. The general evidence suggests that curved swords were brought along with Turkic speaking peoples to the Middle Eastern world as they traded with them and migrated around. One of the Turkic(Or Turkish; it depends...) empires that was formed in Middle East with its centre in Persia (strangely enough the majority of Persia was ruled by Turkic speaking peoples up until a very recent date) is the Seljuk Empire. There are a lot of swords that were made in the Seljuk Empire (1037-1250-ish) that are pretty much curved swords. Most of these swords predate the Crusades and the idea of Ottomans adopting the design from Timurids(?) (as they were the only "horse-people" that fought with the Ottoman Empire) seem to be incorrect. And again Timurids were pretty much a large horde of various Turkic speaking tribes in modern-day Uzbekistan and Iran. I can share the pictures of a couple of these Seljuk-made swords as finding photos of them is pretty easy here. (Some even have curves that look katana-ish!)
It is a very complex point to convey in one or two sentences on a video :-) The point I was trying to make was that these swords came from Central Asia and did not appear first in the Ottoman or Persian Empires. Indeed those Empires included people from Central Asia, but the swords themselves appeared in Central Asia and were taken to those regions. So I was talking more about the regions than the people per se.
@@scholagladiatoria Ah yes, they didn't pop up in those empires for sure. However, the trade between these nomadic peoples and the arabic-speaking world seems to be established quite early as even the early muslim Caliphs seem to have owned somewhat curvy and unsurprisingly
ornate swords. Anyway, I appreciate and enjoy your videos! If you're ever in need of some photos or sources about the medieval Middle East, I'm always eager to help as I literally study it :)
@@commoner__ !! What's the context in which you study the medieval middle east Blake? I ask because I'm interested in pursuing postgraduate study in the topic and have yet to meet any others with the same interest. I wish there was a PM function on youtube... As there isn't afaik, feel free to reply via email if you're interested in a convo :) ryeka.morituri@gmail.com
scholagladiatoria nah how nomads develop Blacksmithing? That is a specialty only settled people’s can have.
Well, where are the pictures?
I'm positive you're aware of the Roman (Byzantines) curved sword called the Paramerion Παραμήριον...probably taken from Turkic tribes as well except the hilt was of typical European type. Makes me wonder when exactly the distinctive Kılıç/shamshir hilt became developed...
Great as always, Matt!
I am not sure when either. I have often seen that they of hilt called a pistol grip and I would guess it was a post medieval development.
The stradiots did more to spread scimitar use than the ottomans did
"Daaaad! I think Matt is an ivory dealer! His grips are ivory, his pommels are ivory, even his card is ivory!"
Those type of swords were used in Georgia as well. Sometimes they forged a little bit straighter blades, like some types of Polish swords.
@Magnat Karabela was also in ottoman turkey, and came from turkey to Poland. The name is actually turkish, means Black Curse. But yeah, poland used them both as karabela bojowa and karabela kontuszowa
@@IPostSwordsFinally, after so many years, someone translated the term Zabłocki failed to do during the times of the Polish People's Republic.
@@jozefkozon4520 Literature from the PRL will always have flaws as a consequence of isolationism and a desire for lost and suppressed nationalistic pride. We need to move past the limitations of authors back then and accept that the mistakes they made were not an intentional slight on other cultures, or a willingness to be inaccurate, but merely a consequence of the times, and their situation. Zablocki did his best, and his contribution to the field should not be tarnished by a few omissions.
@@IPostSwords I like that you has enjoy my sarcazm.
Speaking of other types of swords which deserve more attention, how about some info on Bronze Age swords, perhaps in collaboration with Neil Burridge?
This is very much on my to-do list. I know Neil and we have spoken about it, we just need to get it organised.
@@scholagladiatoria Great to know! Thanks for taking the time to reply.
If you like Matt, you might like Lindybeige and Skallgrim too? Both of them have done videos on bronze weapons. Though, I'd like to see Matt's take on them too.
@@somerando1073 Avid watcher of those two as well, though as you say, I'd like to see Matt's take.
The swords of Borneo would make an interesting topic, particularly the "parang ilang" and "mandau" of the highlands: as far as I know, they are the only blades forged with a _lateral_ curve.
Thank you Matt for sharing this with us. Beautiful swords. The " Shamshir" and " kilij/pata" are some of the most aesthetically pleasing swords imho. Something about the simple hilt and graceful curved lines. Thanks again sir! Cheers
"islamic"
Funnily enough, the swords used by the very earliest caliphate and Muhammad's followers were straight generic double edged ones.
These came later.
Indeed: the Egyptians continued to use straight swords into the Crusades, eventually adopting the Turkish style swords. The African Caliphates and Sultanates continued to use straight swords into the 19th century.
He did actually mention that. around 11:20
@@IPostSwords
Yes he did.
I commented this before watching the entire thing :)
Yeah it was mostly the Altaic tribes that used curved swords
Actually they weren’t generic, they were built to thrust and kill. Like the European one.
This was absolutely fascinating! Excellent video!
Saif is Arabic for sword, and it's similar to the Greek xiphos
Also there is another word for them wich is pata or pala
isn t it a male first name?
*too
on the topic of curved swords. Another overlooked ones would be shotel or mambele or some other type of sickle swords.
I nearly purchased a shotel recently, just for the vidz!
@@scholagladiatoria you did it for the vidz did you?
in 9:41, "Little Step" is "Mahmuz" which means "Spur" in english but also means "Martle" in English sword terminology. Also, the "Mahmuz (or spur)" is the end point of the back section of the sword which means "Sırt (or Back)". The remaining Yalman (or false edge) is not considered part of the "Sırt (or Back)"
You touch on how the mamaluke style sword ended up in somewhat common usage in Europe following Napoleon's invasion of Egypt, but that style of sword also became regulation for United States Marine Corps officers following the Barbary Wars in 1801-1805 and 1815 and still is to this day.
All that was about 400 hundred years of using sabre (according to western usage "curved sword" in Hungary, Poland and Russia. Sabre probably came west from Central Asia or Mongolia (The "Saracens" - Arabs - in 11th cent., before Seljuk Turks came, wielded straight swords. Dtto the Persians warring with Romans and Eastern Romans.)
The invention of the cross hilt actually predates both Islam and Christianity.
Indeed.
It’s almost like two lines intersecting at 90° angles has no connection to religion at all!
@@ianshaliczer What, you believe in angles!?
Johanna Geisel not only do I believe in angles, I’ve personally witnessed them.
@@ianshaliczer don't be so obtuse
This is a wonderful presentation! I learned a lot! Thank you!
That was a nice introduction to this kind of oriental swords.. All Islamic culture used to have familiar types of swords.. And I believe that all the names mean sword in different languages Shamshir, glitch, or even Saif which means sword in Arabic as well..
Your description about the star-shape crossguard is quite nice and maybe this type of crossguard is a part of culture connection.If you see the early sasanian sword,they don't always have this type of guard.But we can see some similar guard on chinese sword(Sui and Tang dynastry).The overall size is small ,the quillon and langets are not so prounanced but the shape is almost same,even the +-shape ridge line is the same as crossguard in early arabic/turkish swords.
Thanks for this, Matt, it's extremely interesting, and very useful to me, as I want to do some research on Ottoman Empire (1840s and Crimean War period) swords and swordsmanship. Much obliged!
First pronunciation of 'Saif' was right. Arabic word.
Thank you for the expansion of your repertoire to include the only sword I’ve ever carried, and still do on occasion today: the United States Marine Corps Officer Sword, which legend has it (and I’ve seen the original in our National Museum of the Marine Corps) derives from the Mameluke Sword awarded to one of our officers in Tripoli.
Curved swords are the swords used by the Central Asian Turks first. After 900 BC, they were taken to India thanks to the Ghaznavids Turks in the 900s and to the Middle East thanks to the Seljuk Turks in the 1000s.
Mamelukes are a state consisting of maize ruling and military class Turks. When you say the Mamluk sword, you say the Turkish sword.
Finally, Turks are not a single sword type; Kilij, Heavy Kilij, Gaddare, Şaşmir, Karabela, Dımışki, Yatağan and many more types of swords according to their intended use.
While the words Shamshir , Kilij and Saif mean "sword" in their respective languages , nowadays it mainly refer to stylistic types of swords popular in certain areas in the english language by collectors and people interested in swords.
So , Shamshir: a style popular in persia , Kilij: a style popular in turkish regions , Saif: a style popular in arabic regions , that doesn't mean you can't find all off these styles in one area .
For example you can find an Ottoman Shamshir style sword , which I suspect the one shown here is . While I'm not an expert ; but usually Shamshirs have iron pommel cap , while the rounded pommel is more common in the Kilij.
You're absolutely right that turkish swords tend to use that rounded pommel and persian swords used the pommel cap - even if they both had identical "shamshir style" blades.
In the picture shown at 7:10, am I blind or is that front guy holding his sword sideways or backwards? Or is it actually a forward curving blade? O,O
Yes, this painting has been much discussed and it is now well documented that very curved sabres were sometimes held backwards (particularly in France) in order to deliver a thrust.
@@scholagladiatoria Indeed. You thrust the blade towards openings of the opponent's armor. Using it like a spear in a way.
As far as I know (and I'm no expert on this) light cavalry with these curved swords used them in the charge with the blade inwards (i.e. backwards to what'd be considered standard doctrine). The blade with the edge on the inside would be aimed at parts like the neck or wrist of enemies & you'd try to make contact with the edge just short of the tip of the blade.
Then as the cavalryman passed the target, you'd rotate & flick your wrist sideways turning the thrust into a prolonged slash.
I know some Indian light cavalry that used this technique in addition to light lances. Once you lost your lance you'd use the sabre in this method. They were said to be able to decapitate infantry in one passing strike if they could target the neck.
Especially India had many forward-curved blades like this, but this one looked more like a Kilij being held wrongly. I honestly see no point in holding it as in the image for delivering a thrust. Such curved blades are meant to be pointed at the opponent to cut while riding by so to speak. If you point with the point instead, it wouldn´t penetrate much, but extract itself automatically. Holding inversely could disarm you!
Lastly, I could imagine holding a Katana or maybe a Shamshir with the thick spine facing the opponent in order to whack someone on the helmet.
Even if you are not into bladed weapons, you can be amazed by the beauty of the craftsmanship at 12:33
Can you please talk more about earlier Arabic swords (the straight double edgedl)?
I noticed that both swords share an evocative snake shape handle, complete with eyeball in the 'snake head' part.
Arabian swords were baiscally straight for the most part before islam and even for a fair while after islam and we didn't really adopt this style of sword until the migration of steppe tribes into Anatolia.
Curved swords are best suited for use on horseback as it's great for cutting because it comes in full contact and continues to slash even after the strike with little effort to it.
Curved swords didn't replace straight swords in the Middle East as both were produced and used in great numbers.
The reason one might think curved swords replaced straight swords in the Arabian Peninsula is parades and festivals, curved swords replaced straight swords for the most in this regard.
Also saif, kilij and shamshir are the same words in a different language, you can call a european sword a saif or a kilij or a shamshir, because that's what it is, a sword!
This complication of what is named what doesn't exist for the most part in Arabia, Turkey or Persia coming from experience, so i think that shouldn't be a worry.
Also great review Mr.Easton as you always do! nice to see our swords get some love :)
arabic swords were like the ones on the video, they were never straight, others like persians and turks copied them after islam
@@emotionalvideos6897 lol
@@YunusKULL Turkey was nothing before islam and arabs.. LOL
@@emotionalvideos6897 bring more salt pls
@@YunusKULL I'm talking with arguments, you don't have so that's why you don't know what to say. Look at history of your own country and then come here to talk.
Great stuff! I really enjoyed this video. Very interesting. Saif does indeed mean 'sword' (and I pronounce it 'safe' and have not heard anyone pronounce it differently), in fact Pakistan has four frigates named, 'Zulfiquar', 'Saif', 'Aslat', and 'Shamsheer', all of which are simply words meaning sword (and if they had a fifth it'd probably be called 'Talwar'). I think only 'Zulfiquar' is named after a particular sword, but not necessarily a particular type of sword, in the sense that 'Excalibur' was a particular sword rather than a type of sword...Anyway, good vid.
Yes indeed Zulfiqar named after particular sword. This particular sword (Zulfiqar) was prophet Muhammad's sword and later was used by Hazrat Ali ibn Abi Thalib. The meaning of Zulfiqar isn't actually sword, Zulfiqar derived from "dhu" meaning possessor, holder. And "faqar" meaning spine, vertebra. So Zulfiqar means "that which has spine", or some interprete as "cleaver of the spine".
I so much love the shamshir, it's just such a beautiful sword. It really challenges my favorite sword, the Oakeshott type XIIa bastard sword.
Yes ''Kılıç'' means sword in Turkish. Janissaries (light leather armored agile elite units of the ottomans) were armed with those as well as bows till they switch to Handcannons(Muskets). They were not stopping after victories. They conqueror castles to castles won wars even against heavily armored enemies. They were expanding like crazy!
They later also used Yatagan's , which are shorter and forward curved. Great for infantry close combat.
Also the are more types persian sword like "Qame" which is a double edged short sword amd more like ancient greet swords. Or "Qadare" which is just lile qame but single edged. Both have no guards and very much like a machete. But essentially the desendants of the ancient achaemenid akinakis....also there's "khanjar" which is a dagger but with a curved blade much like shamshir
Is that the cold steel smallsword I see there in the background? Nice, have it too.
No it's from Dynasty Forge.
@@scholagladiatoria Looks absolutely identical though, at least from that distance.
Beautiful sword either way, glad to see it among your collection.
On the yelman of a kılıç ,the end of the raised yelman always is 1/3 way down showing the best sweetspot of the blade.
Hello Sir, thank you for the video but I don't agree with the idea you mentioned about 15:45. In fact curved swords offer more range in cutting. Let's compare an european classical straight one handed sword and a one handed curved sword and both have the same lenght blades. If you want to take a cut from your opponent, you have to make the angle between your arm and the sword to slide the sharp edge upon the opponent, which reduces the combat range. Otherwise, the sword will stuck or won't do a decent damage obviously. With a curved sword, this angle would be greater than the angle you make with a strait sword to have the same effectiveness in cut. Because curved swords already have this angle allowing you to have more range in cutting. Of course they are handicapped in thrust.
"Shamshir" in Persian literally means "lion's tail", but it is used as a general term for "sword", and various other forms of the word were used by ancient Persians to refer to swords in general. "Saif" on the other hand is Arabic for "sword", and is pronounced exactly like the English word "safe".
Shamshir is tiger claw not tail... sham is claw shir is tiger.... in Arabic is Saif not safe .... and Saif is main word of sword but in Arabic has many meanings of sword or Saif such as Faisal, Hussam, ec
i see a lot of similarities with the roman medieval sword called "paramerion"
Yes there is obviously some sort of relationship between early kilij and the Byzantine paramerion, though as far as I understand it, it's difficult to tell which direction the influence went in - the Byzantines were employing a lot of mercenaries and bringing in weapons and fashion from outside. Though we know that Byzantine fashion did have an influence on the early Islamic world.
@@scholagladiatoria dont use kilij please there is no "J" word in turkish😇
I´d like to see the sheath of 14:49. It´s not easy to prevent rattling, but still, make it easy to draw...
Your Ottoman sword is an example of the cross-fertilisation between the Ottoman Empire and Europe. The multiple narrow fullering of the blade is a characteristic of Hungarian sabres. Many Hungarian-style trade-blades were made in Germany and exported to Eastern Europe and the Ottoman Empire in the late 17th and 18th centuries. I have an Ottoman sword with a typical 'Mameluke' hilt and Turkish scabbard, but the blade is multi-fullered (identical to yours), but does not have an expanded yelman, and is etched with a European guilloche pattern and a crescent moon and stars on one side and a radiant sun and stars on the other. It is a German blade. Your sword looks like it has a Turkish blade, but one heavily influenced by Hungarian-style imported blades. European blades were appreciated by the Turks for their resilience, they were less likely to take a set or to suffer from edge chipping than their own blades. However, Turkish blades were very hard and could hold a sharper edge for longer.
İ didn’t get the last part but i think i should’ve say something about these magyar (hungarian) effect on turkish swords.
First of all, multiple narrow fullering isn’t unique in ottomans, seljukians, nor other turkish&turkic states.
İ can show you many types of sword just like that who used them didn’t meet with magyarians.
Yet, That could be true, because turks and magyars were neighbour back the time.
And, most of you saw named as kilij, but actually wasn’t kilij, they aren’t good example of turkish martial combat.
Turkish sword was curved, thats true, but their sword wasn’t arabians&persians.
Nowadays i searched for kilij, i can only see a type of example, an example which we didn’t call it as a sword, it’s name is pala (could be pata) and anyone thinks like it was ottomans general swords.
Man, thats hurt.
İt wasn’t popular sword, it wasn’t even a sword.
Pala mean is equal to machete. You know, it wasn’t using as well as they’d think.
www.turkeyfamousfor.com/ottoman-turkish-swords/
These are some “real” examples of turkish martial stuffs. And
And why i wrote that much, i dunno, i’m just sick of it.
You know, getting count with some people which you got no things in common, thats suck.
Ottoman, memluk, Selcuk, Persian, arabic... all these namings don't matter when you say Central Asia... because it means Turkic tribes. And the shape of kılıç explains it perfectly. It's shaped like that so you can use it back on a horse easily. You can see the same practicality with the Turkish bow also. It's short so you can point and turn it front to back of horse while riding it at full speed...
Hi,
I almost agree with your assertion about curved blades, and the fact that having a straight part + a curved part gives more reach.
But Europeans didn't "misinterpret". There are still a lot of plades from Iran and eastern parts of Iran (mostly Nordic if I remember, like Uzbekistan and Kyrgyztan) that are curved at the begining of the sword and completely curved until the end, forming an arc of circle.
The reach is completely lost but the idea is to "play" with the circled shape having more cutting power, agility and alignment. (Also if I remember correctly)
Wait,does the calvary saber from around 1840 took inspiration from the Kilij ?
Because i found the curvature and the false edge position on the blade is very similar
Saif is an Arabic word means sword its origin is old but in old Egypt during farouhs time which was sfet . shamshear means claw of lion. beautiful channel.
Hey, Matt, have you seen "Born for the Saber" yet?
Sorry, no.
@@scholagladiatoria do give it a shot - it's on vimeo, and it's really good.
@@scholagladiatoria Its also on Amazon
My Grandfather is from Arabia and inherited me his old sword (a shamshir of Persian production). I'm curious what you think about the comparison of one handed sword and buckler as well as shamshir and small shield!
I've seen a lot of those guards that appear to have been made in two pieces and brazed or welded together. It would make production much easier.
In fact most I have inspected closely are made of *at least* two pieces. It was fairly common to make them of four pieces.
In Poland for example this false edge part is called a feather or pióro i think :)
That's right. And the step between the blunt back and the sharp yelman/pióro is called a młotek - (little) hammer.
I'd like to know more about evolution of Polish sabers: The karabela, the batorówka , etc.
@@Tareltonlives Batorówka is any sabra that have that particular king on the blade. If you are interested in the topic i would sugest Włodzimierz Kwaśniewicz "Dzieje szabli w Polsce". However i'm not sure, that it were ever translated. Also Richard Marsden have a book tat is more about context in regard to that weapon.
@@jozefkozon4520 My dziadek never taught my dad Polish. Worse the luck.
@@Tareltonlives Well, You can start naw. Otherwise, you can serch on web for someone that would do it for fun. Hopes are up.
in Arabic there is many names for a Sword
Saif - Sword
Housam= decisive Sword
Mohanad = Sword with white blade
Djawhar = Sword with Damascus steel blade
thou Fikar = double side blade
this is what i remember for now
there still so many other names for every and each type of Sword
and name of each part of a Sword
and the curved Sword was know to Arabs before Islam
In Persia shamshir alongside saif and qılınc/qılıç were the words that people used for swords. saif was broadly used by most of the islamic world and nearly everyone who was a muslim regardless of his ethnicity used it (mostly in literature) alongside shamshir, qılıç etc. Shamshir was also sometimes used broadly and not just by Persians mostly in literature, and qılınc/qılıç was the word which Turkic tribes used.
The word (sayf) or صیف means sword in Arabic.
And the word (shamshir or شمشیر) is basically means sword.
Edit:I'm originally persian but I know a bit of arabic too.
I like the Kilij's with the martle (you called it block) on it. Looks quite strong
Matt, clear this up for me, you said the hats of hussars were inspired by the eastern Islamic world as well, Is this why the brim of light cavalry hats looks so much like the metal brim that lots of older Turkish and middle eastern helmets had? I have often wondered about this and just chalked it up to that it is a good design(lets you still see while protecting from blows sliding down) and the fact that around the world there are often different people coming up with similar solution to the same problem even without contact. But obviously it would make a lot more sense if it was directly influenced by the older design.
This brean from far East from Jurchen and mongol helmets
"The curved Islamic sword of the Middle East, North Africa and the Ottoman Empire." Rolls right off the tongue.
Jon Goat
Actually the turks (ottomans) were established in balkania, anatolia, caucasia.
And those areas got nothing to do with “middle east, near east, or any east”.
As you can see throuhg this video too, there were differencess. Not only by making swords, pretty much with everything.
We’re calling ourselves as european as italian or russian are, but nowadays, especially lately there s been foolish information ‘round these part of history.
We all should wait and pray for back to normal.
Jon Goat
İ got you first time, still something wrong with that comment.
Before the turks (or turkic troops) arrived to iran platoon, arabian peninsula, or african lands, their “islamic” sword was particularly straight, double edged, broad.
Just like the western europeans. So, this type of desing is not originated by “them”.
And sir, i don’t know about other muslims and their idenity, in my book turkey and and ottomans are&were not an islamic state.
We did take only the religion, rest of it isn’t similar with them.
Thanks for the quick answer though, but i must leave now. Take care.
Jon Goat
Just like that sir.
You did your research, not enough though.
Before Selim the one, ottomans were using these reputation of islamic... literature.
As i said, they used it to make their name bigger. Also since the Mehmet ii, ottomans called themselves as heir of roman empire and all their lands.
They got success on it, but obviously not for the western part of romans.
For the Muhammed stuff, it’s called in the country “holy deposits”. İn some museums, you can see them behind fancy glass, even can touch some of them, taking pictures and all.
You gotta pay for the ticket though :).
Turk’s idenity of islam closer ortodox christian than arabians, or persians.
And this way of the living the religion, has no resemblance close state-religion relationship as like catholics, or arabians has.
And i’m glad we’re doin’ it that way. İ’m doin’ it that way.
İf i got the same thaughts with anti turk-circissian-bosnian “white boys of european”, we’ll find ourselves in a fight which no one gonna win for it.
Because nowadays this idea are raising in turkey, also other caucas and balkanian muslims.
@Jon Goat in islamic tradition you have to descent from mohammad to be a caliph, something that is extremely absurd by ottoman usage of caliph. Many contemporary or modern islamic scholars dont consider them caliphate.
At 12:40 at the down left side you have written
"ر ی ش م ش"(wrong)
Which is backward of correct
"شمشیر",,(correct)
"ش م ش ی ر" (correct)
True arbic is written like that
Fro right to left
@@eliaswomersley9802
Arabic is a beautiful language but, Persian and Arabic are two different languages but they use the same alphabet. Persian is an Indo Eroupian language but Arabic is a Semitic language. There has been several attempts to change Persian alphabet to Latin alphabet since some phonetic can not be expressed soundly by Arabic alphabet. But since this might result in losing Persian ancient laterature from 1500 years ago we still use Semitic - Arabic alphabet.
@@alimasoumy3031 I agree and I am currently learning the arabic language from the ground up but currently I am not even at kid lvls
I looked at that and initially thought, “what is raashamash?” And then realized what Matt did and laughed at myself. Glad someone put the correction in already شمشير
fantastic video Matt. now I really want to get a kilij, that is a glorious looking sword
Since you seem to be interested in the the history of the names of different swords, you might want to connect with the channel Alliterative. It specializes in tracing the complex history of words. You could do a crossover with him. His video would cover the complex history of sword names and yours would cover the matching swords. I hope this sounds interesting to you.
While his target audience is different from yours, I am sure that there are other people who are interested in both topics.
Vocabulary varies by language, time, place, technical knowledge, social class, *and* social context. Worrying about ""the"" historical name is an exercise in frustration. "Most [historical] people" never once stopped to think about terminology. They called it some word for "bladed thing".
Thank you for a very good information 👍 I love you work
Gotta say, that quad fuller on the kilij looks pretty cool.
Of course, the English word “sword” just means “sword,” and as anyone who’s been involved in this hobby (and/or watched more of Mr. Easton’s videos) will know calling something a “sword” doesn’t really narrow down the particulars.
Is there a typology like Oakshotts for this broad class of curved cavalry sword perchance?
That kiliç is just the most ridiculously elegant sword.
Here’s a suggestion for your next topic: Persian and Ottoman armour.
Another feature that gave this Islamic sword an edge on the battlefield was its hook design, which allowed its cavalry users to literally cut their enemies with a single blow from the shoulder to the loin, unlike straight swords attached to the victim’s body.
Is the length past the sudden curve in the pala actually useful? I imagine it's primarily to extend the center of percussion further away from the hand, because it seems really difficult to meaningfully strike with that portion of the blade
It helps a lot with draw cuts.
Persian is a right to left language, you have it written left to right as in English and the letters in their isolated form (that's how the letters are written when they appear by themselves, not in words). Good video though, very informative!
one of the most beautiful 1 handed swords in my opinion.
In turkish "kılıç" (pronounced kelech) means sword, it sounds pretty similar to Kilij, just throwing it out there :D
swords with yalman is a characteristic of the turkmen and the adjacent turkic tribes, same design inspired the tulwar which appeared after the turkic invasions of delhi. Ottomans are the direct descendants of the turkmens, and ottomans were one of the "vanguard tribes" of the seljuks who fought against the crusades.
so the seljuks did infact fought with curved blades, and they had yalmans.
according to some philologists and linguisticians the word "Shamshir" is a combination of two word :
in Persian "Shir" means "Lion" and "Sham" means "Cold"
so the word means "Cold Lion"
and you know there was a special lion in Persia until 150-200 years ago slightly different from African lion
the Ottoman kilij you have presented has a Hungarian blade and it is not "typical Ottoman" at all. Hungarian and Polish blade developed from the 16th-century Ottoman kilij blades and split during the 17th century becoming separated types of blades. Yelman ist the right term for the point and comes from the ruthenian language, as much I know. As much I can see, the grip was renewed. Usually, such grips are from rhinoceros. Concerning terminology: shamshir (pers.), kilij (turc.) and sayif (arab.) mean the same thing - sword. Cheers!
According to our culture the saif is straight swords doesnt matter single or double edged similar to firangi
The 'golia' is sword that is curved from the strt
Thank you for your work.
Hussars are not from Polish influence. Polish Hussars pretty much died out. Hussars started as Serbian mercenaries fighting for the border countries with the Ottomans. Coming into Hungry and Poland they took different paths. The Hungarian ones eventually became light cavalry and are where the hussar influence in Europe came from.
Correct, The Polish Hussars were a medium to heavy cavalry while the Hungarian Hussars were a light cavalry and the base of the later western cavalry of the same name.
I was under the impression the the Hussar influence in Europe came from Byzantine light cavalry witch was some long Greek word that was shortened to hussar
@@llspeciiskylark8008 Came to western Europe from the Hungarians, where the Hungarians got the name from I don't know. So maybe the Byzantines.
What's the title of the painting depicting the breaking of the Siege of Vienna?
If you mean the one at 7:45, it's Bitwa pod Wiedniem (Battle of Vienna) by Józef Brandt.
Thank you.
One of the oldest sabres with a false edge is the so-called "sword of Charlemagne", "sabre of Charlemagne" or "sword of Attila" in the Kunsthistorisches Museum of Vienna (not to be confused with the "sword of Charlemagne Joyeuse" in the Louvre. In reality it is a magnificent princely magyar sabre of the 10th century AD which has never been buried under ground. The same kind of swords are found in that period pagan Hungary often also decorated. It has a gilded silver inlay decoration all along the blade. The hilt is more angled than on the later Islamic versions, but this helped with the reach issue. Just as mentioned, in that period the Arabs were using straight swords and still did for a long time, much like the Byzantine sword, I guess till the Seldjouk Turk conquests when Central Asia came down on the Islamic world.
In East Europe this kind of weapons was popular too... especially for cossacs and native cavalry (central asia and caucasus origin) serving Cars and independent russian Dukes way before 17 century...
@scholagladiatoria is it a reasonable statement to say that curved swords became popular as full plate harness started losing popularity? It is after all generally the case that curved blades are specialized for cutting cloth and flesh rather than defeating armour, and while I can't find good data on the state of armour technology in the Islamic world during that period the timeline does seem to work if one assumes it was fairly similar to the armour seen in western Europe. Am I missing some other important factor here or am I broadly on the right track, would you say?
in the middle east and central asia, armor was mostly leather or cloths, with some addition of small metal segments to protect some vital places and it was nowhere similar to the iconic renaissance or crusader armor
its even known that mongols used paper armor, and it worked well to repel arrows
so this is why sharp edged sabers evolved to defeat leather and paper armors
I might be wrong, but you didn't mention that this kind of weapons came into use in Europe in the XIV century in Hungary, then they were popularized in Poland in the XV/XIV century (the szabla), and from Poland they became widespread in western Europe. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
Mehmed II the Sultan who Conquered the Byzantine Empire had a nice looking Kilij. 2/3 of the blade is single edged while 1/3 of it is double edged.
The hilt is made out of ivory from a walrus tusk... keep in mind Asia Minor is very far away from the Arctic Ocean.
During the Crusades the swords of the Islamic armies were curved, During the Abbasied era, Central Asian Turkic slave soldiers were taken into the Islamic military and Turkic tribes will eventually conquer the Middle East. The first Crusade happens during the Seljuk Era Middle East, which was Central Asian in origin ( they used curved swords) Eventually 1 tribe of Seljuk Turkey will create the Ottoman Empire and they obviously also used the curved swords. Same with the Mameluke Egyptians. The Mamelukes were of mostly Turkic(Steppe) origin and kept the curved sword aswell. Even though the dynasty has shiftef from Turkic to Circassian later on, the Circassians kept the Turkic customs (language, clothing and swords). Earliest curved swords in Europe is mostly due to Hunnic invasions and after that the later Hungarian( Magyar) invasions. The Hungarians prior moving to Europe were close to Central Asia and seems like they also adopted the curved sword in an early stage. They would conquer into Central Europe around the 7th century. You did have other Steppe invasions who brought the curved sword into Europe aswell prior to the Ottomans like the Avars.
The Mameluke Sword was given to Marine First Lieutenant Presley O'Bannon (USMC) by the Ottoman Empire viceroy, Prince Hamet, on December 8, 1805, during the First Barbary War, in Libya, as a gesture of respect and praise for the Marines' actions at the Battle of Derna (1805). Upon his return to the United States, the state of Virginia presented him with a silver-hilted sword featuring an eaglehead hilt and a curved blade modeled after the original Mameluke sword given to him by Hamet. Its blade is inscribed with his name and a commemoration of the Battle of Tripoli Harbor. Marine Corps Commandant Archibald Henderson adopted the Mameluke sword in 1825 for wear by Marine officers.
shamshir(شمشیر)
its persian (iran) sword and old word
SHAM Means nails or tail (I said that the word is old)
SHIR Means lion
SHAMSHIR Means Lions nail or Lions tail.I'm persian and i think lions tail is true👌
قمه and خنجر and قداره another old persian wapons
If possible, I would be very interested in seeing a video about the Hussars, maybe even the "winged" variation?
Reminds me of a video you did quite a while back on the evolution and dispersion of curved swords. If I remember correctly, you also speculated on the dispersion of the curved sword design into East Asia, but did not know enough at the time to comment authoritatively on that topic. Since then, have you had a chance to look into this a bit more. I seem to recall that Japanese sword blades become more curved during the imperial court's wars against the Emishi and reading some speculation that the Emishi curved swords may have been influenced by NE Asian continental swords vs the straight double edged Chinese inspired swords that the imperial court's forces were initially using. Perhaps Metatron has more information on this?
Does anyone know a good site to buy a shamshir? (To train with) I don't trust those new european versions which are available online.. or do I have to look for an antique?
Any sword that would be clearly curved from the hilt forward would, due to basic physics, be difficult to manipulate.
When you say "Persian Empire" around 11:58, what country do you mean exactly? The Safavid Empire? The Timurids before them? The Ilkhanate? Some even earlier polity? Or some later one?
I believe he might be referring to the Seljuks? I know sabers were used in Persia during the Seljuk period
@@npc-17 Yes, but they ruled Persia at the time, so that adds to the confusion. Same with the Khwarizimians, Ghassanids, Ghorids, Ilkhanate etc
Question - what did the crusade - era swords from the middle east look like, the straight bladed ones,? Now I'm curious. I've seen ones with slightly curved grips but straight double edged blades. Did they look like that?
Ottman empire ❤🇰🇿🇹🇷🇺🇿🇹🇲🇰🇬🇦🇿🤲🕌😅
Are the hidden tang hilts without the rivets constructed the same way talwar are made? held in by sticky tar resins and left to dry. Or do they use some other method?
Yes they are glued with pitch.
@@scholagladiatoria Thanks.