Am I being harsh on the WSBK current crop? Or do we need to accept that the technological and ethos gap between the two categories means a move is impossible? I have since heard that BMW might make the move to GP in 2025, hence why Toprak joined them, but I'm still not sure he fancied it! Am I right, wrong or stupid?😆 Also, I can't believe I omitted Haga! Maybe I'll do a Japanese rider-focused video?
Imo as a national level superbike rider, I would say that was pretty accurate on all parts. The tire issue is especially nasty. I dropped 2 years of competing in the national season when they forced Michelin to be the only allowed SBK tire, when I had already set up my bike for Dunlop or Pirelli. The Michelin was simply a pig to ride... no feel at all, even though it had grip. But no feel and need to push it hard made it insufferable. Personally I think it works both ways. Bagnaia would not beat Bautista in WSBK championship, nor would Bautista beat Bagnaia in MotoGP. The bikes are both hard to ride but in very different ways.
For me it is a sad state of affairs, if true. Because up and coming riders need to be able to learn their craft in one class, and to progress to another with a decent chance of success if their talent merits it. Surely every such rider wants to one day be champion in what is perceived to be the Premier class - presumably MotoGP? Where can young riders learn to race in MotoGP except in MotoGP, Moto2 or Moto 3? Why are there little or no British riders there, and why is it dominated by the Spanish (or at least was - I lost interest several years ago).
How can you forget Simon Crafar? 8 years in WSB without a win, goes to GP in 98 and won the Donington GP that year 11.5 seconds ahead of Doohan. The only non Honda to win that year.
Did Regis Laconi do it as well that year? I'd just become a Dad back then and following racing wasnt my main driving incentive that year! Mainly quiet, sleep and overtime!
Nobody can say that riders like Rea and Razgatioglu are not talented enough, in fact Rea had two top-ten finishes in Motogp, but the problem now is that the bikes are so different, and specialized, that it is unlikely that any Superbike rider will be given the time to learn the ropes in Motogp.
Top 10 is one thing, winning is another. Rea just isn't quite good enough to be a serious threat in motogp. Raz definitely has the potential to though.
@@mikeyffw_30 Potential to what? Dominate MotoGP? Bruh. VR was just being nice when asked about Rea. A lot of riders supposedly have "so much potential".
Sylvain Guintoli talks about this on the Chasin the Racing podcast. In simple terms prototype GP machines are incredibly stiff which makes it hard to ride them fast and to get any feedback /feel. Production bikes are more flexible and offer way more feel making them easier to master. But, According to Sylvain if you start down the production route in your early years its hard to unlearn your style to adapt to stiffer GP style, where as if you ride GP first you can ride the production bikes as youve developed a more sensitive sense of feel due to the stiffer bikes.
I think MotoGP has become so extreme, that it's very difficult for anyone who grew up with normal motorcycles. Both Spies and Stoner rambled about that in interviews. So much is controlled by electronics and all these gadgets they have on now. The weekend's task is basically to find the perfect setup and then be little more than a passenger on raceday. It still requires a lot of skill to be the best, but the focus has changed from the rider to the bike quite drastically. It is what the manufacturers want, because they make the bike. And they are willing to pay for the best riders too. So the top riders are fine with it, since it pays. If you think about it you can't claim to be the top class if you don't have the best bikes, so I don't see this changing anytime soon.
I'm confident that Toprak will make a significant impact in the WSBK with BMW. He's incredibly talented, and his skills are often overlooked. He helped Yamaha secure the championship after years of struggle, and he could have repeated that achievement in the last two seasons as well. However, he faced numerous technical issues that hindered his performance. As you can see from the statistics, he's a consistent rider who consistently delivers good results. I don't understand why Yamaha has treated him poorly lately. They reluctantly allowed him to try a MotoGP bike, and as you may know, Yamaha didn't allow him to test the BMW bike in Jerez while Rea was given the chance. They cited contractual obligations as the reason. Toprak was forced to test the bike in wet conditions even though he had set a very impressive lap time in Valencia. The KTM MotoGP team was also present at the track, and they remarked that Toprak's lap times were very close to those of a MotoGP bike. By the way, the Repsol team had contacted him to offer a contract, but he declined due to his commitment to BMW.
Toprak is one of the most unique talents I have ever seen. I watched him live at Donington, drifting both wheels in the damp on slicks into Redgate. It was something to behold! I think he'll do well on the Beemer.
Toprak will go to honda gp in 2025 I presume, they need a beast tamer and they'll pay for it..the guy wants to race against the creme de la creme of riders and prove himself there, we'll have an answer to this video when he does..
He was very likable as well I met him at Donington in 2004 outside his motorhome, I was only 16 at the time and working as a marshall at the first corner, Redgate, after taking a photo with me he noticed my orange bib on under my jacket and asked which corner I was stationed at, after I told him he gave me a massive grin and said in that broad Kentucky accent "Hope I don't see ya!" He was an absolute gentleman.
Ben Spies made the point that Toprak had a similar approach to braking which was not really suitable for MotoGP. He described braking in MotoGP as being in a channel like a bobsled. He predicted that Toprak would not find MotoGP 'his thing' and would be better off staying with WorldSBK.
Bayliss won 1 Wsbk championship before moving to MotoGP and returned to win 2 more... Not 2 before he went.... This video is littered with inconsistencies... Bad John
Great video. I agree with you. It will be extremely hard from anyone to move to MotoGp from World Superbike or any other two wheel competition venue. With Moto2 riders racing on the same tracks and has first dibs to a ride it seems like.
I've never watched bike racing (except the odd time my Grandad left it on TV when he went for a cigarette), but just watched your video about CRT and now this - I'd love to see if you could do a video, sort of like a primer, an "Intro to MotoGP" for people that have never watched or barely watched. It seems like a fascinating sport, and you've got a very concise, understandable way of explaining things. Much appreciated.
Being an American, MotoGP isn't big in America. During the pandemic during lockdown, I rediscovered it and is now hooked. Watching Pecco and Fabio battle it out made me a fan of both. I used to watch AMA as a teen, so I watched Roberts, Spencer, Hayden on TV and knew of Rossi and Marquez later on in the 00s and 10s.
Great video John. You put a lot of research into it. I agree mate, I can't see a Superbike rider going into MotoGP, unless the new Trackhouse Team at some point, pick a rider up from MotoAmerica.
Very hard to disagree! U make many valid points!! The # 1 being Toprak ..I agree ..He's just not all smitten with Moto GP ..But I think he may have a lot of years left!! I'm from the US an I also saw Nicky Hayden as A Superbike rider ! Never good enough to win,Except on his home tracks ! In fact I've often thought Why do MotoGP Riders look at his Season an how he won the championship with just podiums!! Thx for ur report ! Very Well Done
A note about Bayliss' Motogp win as a wildcard on the Ducati - he brought his WSBK Ducati front end with him as he preferred it to the Motogp front end
It was great that toprak didn't go to motogp... Just to be on the worst bike right now. He is still fighting for championships in sbk... And he is a joy to watch on track. His braking skill and ultra aggressive riding style is so fun to watch. And his stoppies
Chris Vermeulen? Also, if you are going to include Mick Doohan, wouldn't Nicky Hayden also fall into the same category? Kinda the same with Makoto Tamada (he did domestic Japanese Superbike and one 250cc wildcard before doing a series of WSBK wildcards which got everyones attention...) Ben Spies was seriously good but even he mentioned that he only felt he had about 4 days he ever truly felt comfortable with the bike. The way the sport is going now with aero and ride height devices (I don't like them, but that is a seperate issue) the two series have diverged to the point that I think it is very unlikely that you will see a true superbike rider back in MotoGP until things change.
Sugo circuit in Tohoku. I used to look forward to Superbike races in Sugo as there would be wildcard riders that you never heard of on colourful bikes going very, very, fast. I miss the wildcard days of Superbike.
@@everetthagar2810 I realised afterwards it was Sugo (I was trying to think of a circuit other than Motegi!). Again, local wildcard riders turning up in WSBK and winning won't happen either, mainly because of electronics.
@@SuperbikeJohn unfortunately I think you are correct that we won't see local wildcard riders doing that again. MotoAmerica *does* have an electronics specification that is fairly aligned with WSBK, but the problem is the money left the sport after the financial crisis in 2008. Prior to that, their were teams that could beat WSBK level bikes. I would argue Yoshimura Suzuki with Mladin and Spies were performing at a higher level than WSBK. When Spies came over he had years of education from his bitter fights with Mladin. But that is over a decade ago and it is nowhere near what it was. BSB does it's own thing, and who can argue with the quality of the show they have? It's fantastic. JRR (Japan's domestic championship) is a bit of an oddball that I am perplexed by. Most of the other championships are a Superstockish in nature. To me, WSBK is facing a bit of an identity crisis and needs to be a pirate championship with a core of riders that globe trot and locals challenge them. What set of rules that would entail, I am not sure, but electronics are a big, big issue.
@@everetthagar2810 That is a Fantastic comment. I am considering doing a video on Mladin - He was awesome on that Suzuki. WSBk should go BSB rules but the manufacturers seem to love the electronics. The next video is about BSB which I'm sure will provoke more comment!
The problem with the premise is that much can change in ways we might not imagine. I recently watched a video of Lawson, Rainey and Schwantz dominating a MotoGP race about three decades ago. If someone had told me that in just a generation, US dirttrack racers would become specialists and stop road racing and US racers would be extinct at the highest levels of road racing, it'd have been hard to believe. I might have even said "Never."
I believe Dorna owns both MotoGP and WorldSBK. Keeping the two products separate is probably preferred by them so you don't stack all the star riders in one sport. Also, if a WorldSBK star rider switches over (full-time) it takes a spot away from the development league Moto 2/1. I think the wild card appearances will be it.
Dear John, my economics class are massive fans of yours and we all loved your induction hob video, can you please post another one as soon as possible (thank you very much).
I think a MotoGP rider wouldn't be able to ride at the front on a WSBK bike either, the differences are too big. One is pure prototype sport and the other is “close to series production”. It's like comparing Formula 1 with the GT3 class.
@@jarnosar9992 Exception proves the rule. And back in the days the MotoGP Bikes were way closer to normal Superbikes, at the end of his MotoGP time he wasnt that good.
sorry but it is not like f1 vs gt3. even though these bikes are prototype, the overall design, shape and characteristics are more or less similar. But F1 and GT3 is like day and night. one is open wheel, other one is closed roof . they are totally different from all aspects. But motogp and wsbk are very similar. The main differences are stiffer chassis, carbon brakes and electronics. GP bikes have enhanced electronic assists compared to production based bikes. i don't count tires, because it is nothing to do with being prototype. it may have been pirelli instead of michelin. if it was pirelli, we wouldnt be talking tire difference. stiffer chassis is a difference but it is needed due to more power and strong brakes. some riders like toprak also are reinforcing their wsbk bike frames due to agressive braking style. So , riders like toprak may like stiffer chassis :)
2008 was actually a Michelin-dominated season. Except Vale, most Bridgestone riders were slower than Michelin riders throughout the season. However 2007 was a definitely Bridgestone-dominated season, Suzuki and Kawasaki were strong and consistent on a regular basis
I disagree as in 08 Michelin was defo more inconsistent than Bridgestone especially in the second half of the season when Pedrosa decided to switch midway during the season to Bridgestone tires lol there was races IIRC the top 10 would be Bridgestone runners Bridgestone honestly caught up by 2006 when Capirossi in another year would have won the title and by 07 had the advantage
Sigh. I this stuff annoys me. Moto now has clear feeder classes now which it lacked realistically 15 years ago. WSBK is a different demographic of rider, slightly older which is not what the moto gp teams want. It's also nothing to do with chassis or tires. We are talking about the top .01% racing at all these levels so I don't think that is realistically a limiting factor. Ultimately MotoGP is a closed tunnel for riders to funnel up or out of. They don't need riders from other championships and they are all (the teams) building rider pipelines much akin to F1 so realistically you'd have to be a breakthrough out of series rider vs a seasoned BSB or WSBK rider to get the nod.
I hate to say but agree on that 99 percent. A few can make difference like Toprak and Hayden. You have to be so gifted. I watched a video about Toprak thoughts after test. He said: it is a completely different bike and He found the front tire feels interressant. In wsbk you can know front tire grip is losing and you will fall but in Motogp, you think you are doing ok tire grip is ok but suddenly grip is zero an you fall. In the tests he rode the bike for 1 hour then rain started and the test cancelled. he did 49 and crutchlow did 48. He started to gain confedence for pushing more unfortunately rain is messed up everthing, we never see his best shot that day. I think he will join motogp with bmw.
He had done the soil m1 test reluctantly. If he had done the test voluntarily, he would have asked for a comfortable sitting position above m1. He didn't even want that. He made the same time with KTM's MotoGP bike in Portimao with his M1000RR. If he doesn't get injured, it is his dream to race in MotoGP.
You're probably right... though I think you could definitely see a MotoGP rider excel or even dominiate WorldSBK. They are very different disciplines though, bit like Nascar and F1 (as I've heard Ben Spies say in a recent interview). I think you'd more likely see a WSBK rider going into EWC endurance racing and being successful as we've often seen quite recently.
I still believe spies was destined ro be moto gp champion if not for his bad luck Reason won't see again is moto gp risers prepared similar machines years before on moto 3 and 2 which are the stiff chassis etc. Modified road bikes where you can slide to corner more etc build in habits that are hard to rewire
Story still checks out. ;) I'm old enough to remember all these Superbike guys & they were legit stars too. Say: Superbikes vs MotoGP as CART vs F1 in the day - elite but technically different. We knew riders like Edwards could put in decent performances & Bayliss proves your point. Thanks from Australia 3mo later...
I really dont know how you forgot Nicky Haden. 2002 AMA superbike champ to 2006 Moto GP Champion. And is the only one whos done it. Not hard to fact check those results!!!!!
The impact of tires was mentioned at the end but still underplayed. Without the parc ferme rule where special tires could be tailored to the rider, you more or less end up with a narrow window of rider build and riding style, and everything else is uncompetitive most of the time. If you are not that build and cannot change your style to the tires available you are out of luck.
The mention of tyres was wrong anyway. The GP tyres are softer, once heated properly and warp more. Superbike tyres are more consistent with their grip level as they are harder. The difference is that in WSBK the contact patch stays very similar, MotoGP the contact patch can vary greatly depending on temps, brake pressure, downforce and a whole bunch of other things.
JRae not having a decent crack at gp is a crying shame. What is more surprising is I thought there would be tons of notable gp riders moving to wsbk but it's not very common either.... I think Jack miller might be one. He's young enough and had enough chances in gp that he won't get another decent ride after he's current ktm contract.
You didn't do your research on Neil Hodgson properly. He was a GP racer first, long before he went to world superbikes. He raced in the 125cc world championship in 1994 and raced in the 500cc GPs in 1995. Then moved to BSB, then WSBK, then to GP again.
Toprak on the M1. IMO Yamaha knew they could get Rins and as good as Toprak is I would pick a proven winner like Rins. If Yamaha only have two bikes and they have Quartararo (for now) they need to put the best rider to pair with him.
Great video! If I may give some feedback on the production, I would edit out all of the breaths that you take and quiet moments. Other than that, loved the vid!
I thought you were just going to say WSB racers won't win or enter MotoGP, because the Aero-elements of MotoGP, make the bikes & racing so different then with road based bikes. Apparently, like Formula 1, the dirty air from those aero parts interferes a lot with the Aero of the racers behind. With weak downforce, and bikes that cut through air like a Swordfish through water. The racing is a lot more competitive, fair, and frantic. But dirty air from aero messes with overtakes, braking-zones, and other maneuvers, to my understanding. Then there's the stability issues for aero elements that make downforce at full lean, and other elements meant just for a vertical bike. I've said for years, motorcycles need active-aero. Not just air brakes on the back like a hypercar, to stabilize the rear, and keep it on the ground. But also, active-aero elements that create Downforce that adapts to lean-angle. Unless it's a Dragbike, or highway-runner. Fixed aero is pointless for cornering. You need active-aero for circuits & sprints. Dirty-air flows from aero-kits, just interferes with traditional racing. But I still love the innovations & attempts. I think, MotoGP should have little to no Downforce for grid circuit racing. But have a separate division, even on the same track, same day, have a crazy, unlimited aero time-attack event, like cars do. I believe this is the best option, and sounds fun as hell to participate & watch.
Excellent video. Really enjoyed going down Memory Lane. So many great riders. I miss the days when more Americans raced abroad. Honorable mention to John Hopkins going from AMA to Grand Prix 500's at 18 years old - blows my mind. Kid had heart.
Good video! I think the same goes vice versa. It’s no longer easy to adapt to a WSBK-bike. When Bautista left MotoGP in 2018, his team did not have the ride-height-device, I believe. Same for Redding. So the rider that has ridden the latest GP-bike before moving to Superbikes is actually Petrucci. Despite some decent results, he is still adapting to the WSBK-Ducati. One can see that riders that are having a good run on WSBK-bikes are actually from Moto2, which seems closer to a Superbike to me. Bulega and Locatelli come to mind there. Personally I would like to see a healthy rivalry between MotoGP and WSBK. With riders having one offs here and there, fans cheering for their guy trying to beat the other paddock.
Very interesting video, I agree with you. In my opinion it all has to do with the stiffness of the chassis you'v learned on. If you have learned in soft road bikes you have no chance to compete with guys that have learned in GP bikes since they'r 8 years only. The automatic response they have develop from childness is not reacheable when your in the 20's after competing for 10 years in road bikes cause you have other reactions.
Rae “maybe” could have done it on the right bike but that boat sailed a couple of years ago. Toprak can not be written off. Bautista had a good career there but is nearly 40 now so forget him in going back to GPs
In first I thought you crazy…But them reconsidering I saw the light, I think you are right. Starting in the Moto’s Gran pri 1 2 3 and then GP is different from going to SBK and them transition to the higher level of MotoGP. But, is the reverse true? coming from MotoGP to SBK would be beneficial or disastrous?
From the start, WSBK was designed to eventually replace MotoGP as the Premier Class. It may be that MotoGP and WSBK will be deprecated in favor of a fortified Moto-E.
it's just how it is, it's kinda like how football ⚽ works , the best league is the most desirable which makes it more attractive to young upcoming talents that's why European leagues have the best and most talented players , for motorbike racing , Motogp is the most desirable that's why the most talented riders are in it and not in wsbk , if someone like Bautista (who is very talented yet didn't even stand a chance at winning through out his 8 yrs in Motogp , and had 3 podium finishes all being 3rd place) can dominate in wsbk imagine what Marc , Pecco , Martin , Quateraro ... can do , but I would doubt the top guys in wsbk would even crack the top 10 in Motogp atm.
Suits me, I used to love World superbikes. I've always hated moto gp. They arent real bikes that you can buy. They should never have been allowed to go from 500 2-stroke to 4-stroke.
A generational talent like Toprak wasnt really given a chance now was he? Perhaps given a year or 2 and a Ducati, one wouldn't bet against him but we wont know
Motogp bike is much harder to ride with all the tech, ride height device, aero stuff, stiffer bike which allowed riders to push harder but harder to get feedbacks from the bike. You really have to ride the bike the way it needs to be ride, if your bike is bad then basically you stand no chance as compared to the past where you can forcefully will or ride the bike to the way you want to push the limit. Thw front michelin tyres is inferior to bridgestone tyres. Michelin tyres front is too soft and weaker. You cant brakw too hard/load too hard as it will collapse too early causing you to lowside crash. Because the tyres lifepspan is shorter and it crashed too easily. Most rider are now taking similar lines to preserve their tyres which made the race boring. Bridgestone tyres. You can basically throw the bike at every corner to take different line in attempt to overtake and it still wont crash which made thr race alot better
listen to Casey Stoner talk about why it's hard to win on a modern day MotoGP bike. they're so full of 'rider aids' like Ride height device and all this other stuff that it's almost more about who can make the best use of the aids at the right time than it is rider skill.
There are many reasons why WSBK riders do not move to MotoGP - stiffer chassis requiring a different ridning style and the huge re-education around electronics are a couple mentioned fairly regularly. However, talking to a few involved I am hearing the biggest reasons are surrounding lifestyle ... length of season/number of rounds and the massive increase in time demands/pressure in regard to media and sponsor duties being the biggest factors. Recently the evolution of aero nad ride height devices has also been something many find difficult to adapt to when given test sessions. With the new regulations for 2027 I expect the gap between series to close as far as riders ability to adapt goes. Saying that, I expect if Toprak takes up the Honda offer for 2025 that he will slot in a lot easier than many.
Can't really fault your analysis. The classes have just become too different and there's too much time pressure, which prevents patient rider development
I can't possibly claim to understand the mechanical differences between classes well enough to make an informed guess if WSBK riders could have a future in MotoGP, but... I fear we will find out this year. With 44 races in MotoGP there will likely be even more injury-related substitutions. And the last few races of this season already looked like the 16th hour of Bol d'Or or LeMans 24h, where hardly anyone really understands what is happening around them and silly mistakes are not only made, but also not noticed.
We can see many top 10-15 MotoGP riders past and present moving to SBK and success competing there and some become champions. It isn't many on the other way around even they are/were top 5-10 SBK riders. These phenomena also happen when F1 top 10-15 drivers go for refugee competing in Indy. However, not so may in vice versa. These happen because F1 is the pinnacle of opened wheel racing and MotoGP is the pinnacle of 2 wheel racing. It means F1 drivers' talent pool are higher than Indy one and MotoGP riders' talent pool are higher than SBK one.
I wonder how much the Simoncelli incident influenced C Edwards to stop racing. I always liked Collin and Cal. It was also nice to see Pedrosa again, perform well and almost on the podium this year. Dude can ride. :) Maybe if they want to go GP, go GP, and forget about SBK. And other way around as well.
Once again, great video! I would compare MotoGP to F1 and WSBK to touring cars. So they are completely different disciplines. And you can go in to WSBK from MotoGP and win, but the other way around would be very difficult to do. It is easier to get closer to the edge on a softer chassis and harder tyres (WSBK) than it is to do it on a harder chassis (MotoGP).
Thank you. A good analogy, but the performance gap is much closer. If a TC lapped within a second of an F1 car, you'd expect the transition to be achieved. But, then again, if a TC could do that, it may be in a completely different way, so your last point is very true.
you're wrong. MotoGP tyres were also harder. many riders complained about that. all the light small riders like Pedrosa, Bautista etc... and of course SBK boys. Spies stated not so long ago i quote "in WSBK we had soft tyre casing (Dunlop) and softer chassis which allowed us to muscle the bike up easier in the braking phase and they had tons of feedback. MotoGP bikes just don't and are like bricks with harder tyre casing. which forces you to ride very tidy and smooth to keep the cornering speed up. i was more of a hard braker, lift the bike up and go! i struggled to do that because of all my years riding superbikes." he even said that had he knew that better back then, never he would've made the move to GP.
In MotoGP, there is lesser room for error and less errors too while riding. In WSBK, there is so much error and recovery happening in every corner, and bikes are not crisp and perfect in terms of corner exit exhilaration, grip level, stability durning cornering, frame rigidity etc. Both are exciting, but WSBK is inferior to MotoGP.
Not enough MotoGP rides and too many good riders from Moto2 forcing their way in, when a Moto2 World Champion such as Remy only gets one year on a crap bike before being ousted then what chance will a WSBK rider have to adapt and prove their worth. There's a clear path to MotoGP and it's not WSBK, the only direction of travel these days is unsuccessful MotoGP riders going to WSBK when they lose their MotoGP ride. Btw I like Dixon but don't think he will make it to MotoGP, not unless he starts winning in Moto2 regularly. For much the same reasons as I stated above, you gotta be the cream of the crop of Moto2 to get into MotoGP.
i Love Moto GP but it has gone the way of F1 in that its a tech race. WSBK is limited by the requirement to be based on a road bike (albeit heavily modified) so the difference between the 2 is now huge as will be the learning curve. the very best will get too grips with the tech but most wont. WSBK riders need to go into Moto2 1st.
Well said John but you have forgot that the bike today are more relying on the technology side which make it more unpredictable for the riders to know the limit. Even Marc has been talking about it. Personally it ain't that bad it'a just so difficult know in terms of riding. MSMA are still looking for a right balance before they reach the final decision before 2027 when the regulations change. For Jake I think his cance to move up the ladder has expeired. It should have been this year. I thought his passport & support from TNT could able to secure him a spot on the grid. I think its a bit blurry now. We just hope Scott Ogden & Josh Whatley could finally get their breakout year. Giving them an opportinity to move to Moto2 in 2025.
I think your opinion was confirmed by Bautista in Malaysia. Without doubt Bautista is as good a racer as we have in wsbk, and in Malaysia he wasn't even remotely competitive, despite having tested on the bike before, and Malaysia being his favourite track. If he couldn't compete under those circumstances chances of anyone else from wsbk racing at the front are remote indeed.
Honestly. I think WSBK is more interesting than motoGP now at the moment with rider swithing. But I believe 2025 will be bigger for MOTOgp due to alot of contracts ending.
Am I being harsh on the WSBK current crop? Or do we need to accept that the technological and ethos gap between the two categories means a move is impossible? I have since heard that BMW might make the move to GP in 2025, hence why Toprak joined them, but I'm still not sure he fancied it! Am I right, wrong or stupid?😆
Also, I can't believe I omitted Haga! Maybe I'll do a Japanese rider-focused video?
There's zero benefit to move. Toprak proved that by snubbing Yamaha
The level in Moto GP is not any better than WSBK. Pedro Acosta is good but Dominique Aegeter is better in my opinion.
Imo as a national level superbike rider, I would say that was pretty accurate on all parts. The tire issue is especially nasty. I dropped 2 years of competing in the national season when they forced Michelin to be the only allowed SBK tire, when I had already set up my bike for Dunlop or Pirelli. The Michelin was simply a pig to ride... no feel at all, even though it had grip. But no feel and need to push it hard made it insufferable.
Personally I think it works both ways. Bagnaia would not beat Bautista in WSBK championship, nor would Bautista beat Bagnaia in MotoGP. The bikes are both hard to ride but in very different ways.
@@sfprivateerThanks for the insight!
For me it is a sad state of affairs, if true. Because up and coming riders need to be able to learn their craft in one class, and to progress to another with a decent chance of success if their talent merits it. Surely every such rider wants to one day be champion in what is perceived to be the Premier class - presumably MotoGP? Where can young riders learn to race in MotoGP except in MotoGP, Moto2 or Moto 3? Why are there little or no British riders there, and why is it dominated by the Spanish (or at least was - I lost interest several years ago).
How can you forget Simon Crafar? 8 years in WSB without a win, goes to GP in 98 and won the Donington GP that year 11.5 seconds ahead of Doohan. The only non Honda to win that year.
Did Regis Laconi do it as well that year? I'd just become a Dad back then and following racing wasnt my main driving incentive that year! Mainly quiet, sleep and overtime!
@@cropstar He won one race in 99 (Valencia), and he started in GP and went on to WSB.
Not to take anything away from his win but the tyres played a major part.
I had a broken watch once . It was correct twice a day
Nicky Haden
Nobody can say that riders like Rea and Razgatioglu are not talented enough, in fact Rea had two top-ten finishes in Motogp, but the problem now is that the bikes are so different, and specialized, that it is unlikely that any Superbike rider will be given the time to learn the ropes in Motogp.
100%
Top 10 is one thing, winning is another. Rea just isn't quite good enough to be a serious threat in motogp. Raz definitely has the potential to though.
@@Aberamentho2010but according to Motogp Legend VR46, jonathan rea had so much potential.🤷
@@mikeyffw_30 Potential to what? Dominate MotoGP? Bruh. VR was just being nice when asked about Rea. A lot of riders supposedly have "so much potential".
@@Aberamentho2010 well then VR hasn't been good or nice to toprak. And VR wasn't asked about rea he himself stated that.
Sylvain Guintoli talks about this on the Chasin the Racing podcast. In simple terms prototype GP machines are incredibly stiff which makes it hard to ride them fast and to get any feedback /feel. Production bikes are more flexible and offer way more feel making them easier to master. But, According to Sylvain if you start down the production route in your early years its hard to unlearn your style to adapt to stiffer GP style, where as if you ride GP first you can ride the production bikes as youve developed a more sensitive sense of feel due to the stiffer bikes.
Nicky Haden
I think MotoGP has become so extreme, that it's very difficult for anyone who grew up with normal motorcycles. Both Spies and Stoner rambled about that in interviews. So much is controlled by electronics and all these gadgets they have on now. The weekend's task is basically to find the perfect setup and then be little more than a passenger on raceday. It still requires a lot of skill to be the best, but the focus has changed from the rider to the bike quite drastically. It is what the manufacturers want, because they make the bike. And they are willing to pay for the best riders too. So the top riders are fine with it, since it pays. If you think about it you can't claim to be the top class if you don't have the best bikes, so I don't see this changing anytime soon.
Tech has taken over like F1
Yes but that is only half the problem the other half is motogp not allowing riders to train on motogp bikes for extensive periods of time.
Nicky Hayden raced superbikes then motogp winning a world title then went back to superbikes
That was in 800cc era. Stoner and Rossi owned him by the following year. He switched to Ducati and never won, but on podium only.
@@beetlesazerHayden won his title in 2006 on the last year of the 1000's. 800's started in 2007, Stoner dominated everyone...including Rossi.
@@beetlesazerL
Toprak is a different breed he can ride ANYTHING to its limits
Evet 4 yasindan beri show yapıyor sokaklarda. Enduro ,driftcars, KTM, wsbk ssp,
I'm confident that Toprak will make a significant impact in the WSBK with BMW. He's incredibly talented, and his skills are often overlooked. He helped Yamaha secure the championship after years of struggle, and he could have repeated that achievement in the last two seasons as well. However, he faced numerous technical issues that hindered his performance. As you can see from the statistics, he's a consistent rider who consistently delivers good results. I don't understand why Yamaha has treated him poorly lately. They reluctantly allowed him to try a MotoGP bike, and as you may know, Yamaha didn't allow him to test the BMW bike in Jerez while Rea was given the chance. They cited contractual obligations as the reason.
Toprak was forced to test the bike in wet conditions even though he had set a very impressive lap time in Valencia. The KTM MotoGP team was also present at the track, and they remarked that Toprak's lap times were very close to those of a MotoGP bike.
By the way, the Repsol team had contacted him to offer a contract, but he declined due to his commitment to BMW.
Toprak is one of the most unique talents I have ever seen. I watched him live at Donington, drifting both wheels in the damp on slicks into Redgate. It was something to behold! I think he'll do well on the Beemer.
Toprak will go to honda gp in 2025 I presume, they need a beast tamer and they'll pay for it..the guy wants to race against the creme de la creme of riders and prove himself there, we'll have an answer to this video when he does..
@@SuperbikeJohntoprak was 1.5 seconds slower than crutchlow during testing with the M1. No way he can compete in MOTO GP
Just shows how good Nicky Hayden was. Riding God
How can you forget the only Superbike rider who won the MotoGP championship.
He was very likable as well I met him at Donington in 2004 outside his motorhome, I was only 16 at the time and working as a marshall at the first corner, Redgate, after taking a photo with me he noticed my orange bib on under my jacket and asked which corner I was stationed at, after I told him he gave me a massive grin and said in that broad Kentucky accent "Hope I don't see ya!"
He was an absolute gentleman.
Have you seen the roads in Kentucky? It would take massive balls to ride in that state…
Cal was an absolute legend and a great character, I was over the moon for him on his first MotoGP win
Ben Spies made the point that Toprak had a similar approach to braking which was not really suitable for MotoGP. He described braking in MotoGP as being in a channel like a bobsled.
He predicted that Toprak would not find MotoGP 'his thing' and would be better off staying with WorldSBK.
You need to make the distinction between GP500 and MotoGP.. Two very different classes and formats..
Bayliss won 1 Wsbk championship before moving to MotoGP and returned to win 2 more... Not 2 before he went.... This video is littered with inconsistencies... Bad John
Great video. I agree with you. It will be extremely hard from anyone to move to MotoGp from World Superbike or any other two wheel competition venue. With Moto2 riders racing on the same tracks and has first dibs to a ride it seems like.
I've never watched bike racing (except the odd time my Grandad left it on TV when he went for a cigarette), but just watched your video about CRT and now this - I'd love to see if you could do a video, sort of like a primer, an "Intro to MotoGP" for people that have never watched or barely watched. It seems like a fascinating sport, and you've got a very concise, understandable way of explaining things.
Much appreciated.
He doesnt Because people that really follow the sport would never leave out 2006 motoGP Champ Nicky Haden
Get into it because it's some of the best top level racing out there! 😀
Being an American, MotoGP isn't big in America. During the pandemic during lockdown, I rediscovered it and is now hooked. Watching Pecco and Fabio battle it out made me a fan of both.
I used to watch AMA as a teen, so I watched Roberts, Spencer, Hayden on TV and knew of Rossi and Marquez later on in the 00s and 10s.
Great video John. You put a lot of research into it. I agree mate, I can't see a Superbike rider going into MotoGP, unless the new Trackhouse Team at some point, pick a rider up from MotoAmerica.
Very hard to disagree! U make many valid points!! The # 1 being Toprak ..I agree ..He's just not all smitten with Moto GP ..But I think he may have a lot of years left!! I'm from the US an I also saw Nicky Hayden as A Superbike rider ! Never good enough to win,Except on his home tracks ! In fact I've often thought Why do MotoGP Riders look at his Season an how he won the championship with just podiums!! Thx for ur report ! Very Well Done
Scott Russell must have found a time machine.
mr. Daytona ? only one i can recall around early 80s
A note about Bayliss' Motogp win as a wildcard on the Ducati - he brought his WSBK Ducati front end with him as he preferred it to the Motogp front end
Nicky Hayden... Nuff said.
It was great that toprak didn't go to motogp... Just to be on the worst bike right now. He is still fighting for championships in sbk... And he is a joy to watch on track. His braking skill and ultra aggressive riding style is so fun to watch. And his stoppies
Chris Vermeulen? Also, if you are going to include Mick Doohan, wouldn't Nicky Hayden also fall into the same category? Kinda the same with Makoto Tamada (he did domestic Japanese Superbike and one 250cc wildcard before doing a series of WSBK wildcards which got everyones attention...) Ben Spies was seriously good but even he mentioned that he only felt he had about 4 days he ever truly felt comfortable with the bike. The way the sport is going now with aero and ride height devices (I don't like them, but that is a seperate issue) the two series have diverged to the point that I think it is very unlikely that you will see a true superbike rider back in MotoGP until things change.
I forgot about Tamada! Won at Mount Fuji if I remember right.
Sugo circuit in Tohoku. I used to look forward to Superbike races in Sugo as there would be wildcard riders that you never heard of on colourful bikes going very, very, fast. I miss the wildcard days of Superbike.
@@everetthagar2810 I realised afterwards it was Sugo (I was trying to think of a circuit other than Motegi!). Again, local wildcard riders turning up in WSBK and winning won't happen either, mainly because of electronics.
@@SuperbikeJohn unfortunately I think you are correct that we won't see local wildcard riders doing that again. MotoAmerica *does* have an electronics specification that is fairly aligned with WSBK, but the problem is the money left the sport after the financial crisis in 2008. Prior to that, their were teams that could beat WSBK level bikes. I would argue Yoshimura Suzuki with Mladin and Spies were performing at a higher level than WSBK. When Spies came over he had years of education from his bitter fights with Mladin. But that is over a decade ago and it is nowhere near what it was. BSB does it's own thing, and who can argue with the quality of the show they have? It's fantastic. JRR (Japan's domestic championship) is a bit of an oddball that I am perplexed by. Most of the other championships are a Superstockish in nature. To me, WSBK is facing a bit of an identity crisis and needs to be a pirate championship with a core of riders that globe trot and locals challenge them. What set of rules that would entail, I am not sure, but electronics are a big, big issue.
@@everetthagar2810 That is a Fantastic comment. I am considering doing a video on Mladin - He was awesome on that Suzuki. WSBk should go BSB rules but the manufacturers seem to love the electronics. The next video is about BSB which I'm sure will provoke more comment!
The problem with the premise is that much can change in ways we might not imagine. I recently watched a video of Lawson, Rainey and Schwantz dominating a MotoGP race about three decades ago. If someone had told me that in just a generation, US dirttrack racers would become specialists and stop road racing and US racers would be extinct at the highest levels of road racing, it'd have been hard to believe. I might have even said "Never."
I believe Dorna owns both MotoGP and WorldSBK. Keeping the two products separate is probably preferred by them so you don't stack all the star riders in one sport. Also, if a WorldSBK star rider switches over (full-time) it takes a spot away from the development league Moto 2/1. I think the wild card appearances will be it.
Dear John, my economics class are massive fans of yours and we all loved your induction hob video, can you please post another one as soon as possible (thank you very much).
I think a MotoGP rider wouldn't be able to ride at the front on a WSBK bike either, the differences are too big. One is pure prototype sport and the other is “close to series production”. It's like comparing Formula 1 with the GT3 class.
You mean apart from Bautista, fucking hell, have a think.
@@jarnosar9992 Exception proves the rule. And back in the days the MotoGP Bikes were way closer to normal Superbikes, at the end of his MotoGP time he wasnt that good.
sorry but it is not like f1 vs gt3. even though these bikes are prototype, the overall design, shape and characteristics are more or less similar. But F1 and GT3 is like day and night. one is open wheel, other one is closed roof . they are totally different from all aspects. But motogp and wsbk are very similar. The main differences are stiffer chassis, carbon brakes and electronics. GP bikes have enhanced electronic assists compared to production based bikes. i don't count tires, because it is nothing to do with being prototype. it may have been pirelli instead of michelin. if it was pirelli, we wouldnt be talking tire difference. stiffer chassis is a difference but it is needed due to more power and strong brakes. some riders like toprak also are reinforcing their wsbk bike frames due to agressive braking style. So , riders like toprak may like stiffer chassis :)
Video starts at 9:26
Thank you. Covered my time playing on track. Different games.
2008 was actually a Michelin-dominated season. Except Vale, most Bridgestone riders were slower than Michelin riders throughout the season. However 2007 was a definitely Bridgestone-dominated season, Suzuki and Kawasaki were strong and consistent on a regular basis
I was sad to see Kawasaki go.
I disagree as in 08 Michelin was defo more inconsistent than Bridgestone especially in the second half of the season when Pedrosa decided to switch midway during the season to Bridgestone tires lol there was races IIRC the top 10 would be Bridgestone runners
Bridgestone honestly caught up by 2006 when Capirossi in another year would have won the title and by 07 had the advantage
Nicky Hayden, 2003 AMA SBK champ, 2006 Moto GP champ.
Correction...2002 AMA champ.
Fun fact: AMA Superbike Champion Josh Hayes has more career MotoGP points than Sam Lowes who was a factory rider. Lol
One cares about Americans!
@@jesuschrist7169
Which one?
Sigh. I this stuff annoys me. Moto now has clear feeder classes now which it lacked realistically 15 years ago.
WSBK is a different demographic of rider, slightly older which is not what the moto gp teams want. It's also nothing to do with chassis or tires. We are talking about the top .01% racing at all these levels so I don't think that is realistically a limiting factor.
Ultimately MotoGP is a closed tunnel for riders to funnel up or out of. They don't need riders from other championships and they are all (the teams) building rider pipelines much akin to F1 so realistically you'd have to be a breakthrough out of series rider vs a seasoned BSB or WSBK rider to get the nod.
I hate to say but agree on that 99 percent. A few can make difference like Toprak and Hayden. You have to be so gifted.
I watched a video about Toprak thoughts after test. He said: it is a completely different bike and He found the front tire feels interressant. In wsbk you can know front tire grip is losing and you will fall but in Motogp, you think you are doing ok tire grip is ok but suddenly grip is zero an you fall. In the tests he rode the bike for 1 hour then rain started and the test cancelled. he did 49 and crutchlow did 48. He started to gain confedence for pushing more unfortunately rain is messed up everthing, we never see his best shot that day.
I think he will join motogp with bmw.
Toprak may be the first ex-WSBK rider to disprove your theory.
Is that a joke??😂 he uncompetitive with m1 test
He had done the soil m1 test reluctantly. If he had done the test voluntarily, he would have asked for a comfortable sitting position above m1. He didn't even want that. He made the same time with KTM's MotoGP bike in Portimao with his M1000RR. If he doesn't get injured, it is his dream to race in MotoGP.
@@bagus2407 he did 49 in that test and rode like 1 hour. Afternoon test canceled due to rain.
You're probably right... though I think you could definitely see a MotoGP rider excel or even dominiate WorldSBK. They are very different disciplines though, bit like Nascar and F1 (as I've heard Ben Spies say in a recent interview). I think you'd more likely see a WSBK rider going into EWC endurance racing and being successful as we've often seen quite recently.
This was super interesting. I'm a new motorcycle rider, and this was super fascinating. Thanks!
I still believe spies was destined ro be moto gp champion if not for his bad luck
Reason won't see again is moto gp risers prepared similar machines years before on moto 3 and 2 which are the stiff chassis etc. Modified road bikes where you can slide to corner more etc build in habits that are hard to rewire
Story still checks out. ;) I'm old enough to remember all these Superbike guys & they were legit stars too. Say: Superbikes vs MotoGP as CART vs F1 in the day - elite but technically different. We knew riders like Edwards could put in decent performances & Bayliss proves your point. Thanks from Australia 3mo later...
That’s a good comparison.👍
First time viewer. Now subscribed. Good video!
Awesome, thank you!
I really dont know how you forgot Nicky Haden. 2002 AMA superbike champ to 2006 Moto GP Champion. And is the only one whos done it. Not hard to fact check those results!!!!!
The impact of tires was mentioned at the end but still underplayed. Without the parc ferme rule where special tires could be tailored to the rider, you more or less end up with a narrow window of rider build and riding style, and everything else is uncompetitive most of the time. If you are not that build and cannot change your style to the tires available you are out of luck.
The mention of tyres was wrong anyway.
The GP tyres are softer, once heated properly and warp more.
Superbike tyres are more consistent with their grip level as they are harder.
The difference is that in WSBK the contact patch stays very similar, MotoGP the contact patch can vary greatly depending on temps, brake pressure, downforce and a whole bunch of other things.
JRae not having a decent crack at gp is a crying shame. What is more surprising is I thought there would be tons of notable gp riders moving to wsbk but it's not very common either.... I think Jack miller might be one. He's young enough and had enough chances in gp that he won't get another decent ride after he's current ktm contract.
You didn't do your research on Neil Hodgson properly. He was a GP racer first, long before he went to world superbikes.
He raced in the 125cc world championship in 1994 and raced in the 500cc GPs in 1995. Then moved to BSB, then WSBK, then to GP again.
You got me!
Toprak on the M1. IMO Yamaha knew they could get Rins and as good as Toprak is I would pick a proven winner like Rins. If Yamaha only have two bikes and they have Quartararo (for now) they need to put the best rider to pair with him.
Great video! If I may give some feedback on the production, I would edit out all of the breaths that you take and quiet moments. Other than that, loved the vid!
there is not a massive skill gap between GP and SBK, Toprak is one of the greatest riders of this generation
I thought you were just going to say WSB racers won't win or enter MotoGP, because the Aero-elements of MotoGP, make the bikes & racing so different then with road based bikes. Apparently, like Formula 1, the dirty air from those aero parts interferes a lot with the Aero of the racers behind. With weak downforce, and bikes that cut through air like a Swordfish through water. The racing is a lot more competitive, fair, and frantic.
But dirty air from aero messes with overtakes, braking-zones, and other maneuvers, to my understanding.
Then there's the stability issues for aero elements that make downforce at full lean, and other elements meant just for a vertical bike.
I've said for years, motorcycles need active-aero. Not just air brakes on the back like a hypercar, to stabilize the rear, and keep it on the ground. But also, active-aero elements that create Downforce that adapts to lean-angle.
Unless it's a Dragbike, or highway-runner. Fixed aero is pointless for cornering. You need active-aero for circuits & sprints.
Dirty-air flows from aero-kits, just interferes with traditional racing.
But I still love the innovations & attempts.
I think, MotoGP should have little to no Downforce for grid circuit racing. But have a separate division, even on the same track, same day, have a crazy, unlimited aero time-attack event, like cars do.
I believe this is the best option, and sounds fun as hell to participate & watch.
Scott russel last podium in 1966?? That is incorrect... Corser? Incorrect.... Bayliss got a podium in Valencia in 2004... Damn
Slip of the tongue!
It's not just about the skill, right now MotoGP has many things to take into account, like for instance the holeshot, that a WSBK rider isn't used to.
Josh Hayes-Multi AMA SBK/FX champ did a wildcard in Valencia, where he finished sixth
Arent you forgetting someone? The late MotoGP champion, Nicky Hayden who got into MotoGp through American Superbikes.
Excellent video. Really enjoyed going down Memory Lane. So many great riders. I miss the days when more Americans raced abroad. Honorable mention to John Hopkins going from AMA to Grand Prix 500's at 18 years old - blows my mind. Kid had heart.
Thank you. I’m thinking of doing one on American riders. Apart from Joe Roberts I can’t see who else might make it to MotoGP.
Good video!
I think the same goes vice versa. It’s no longer easy to adapt to a WSBK-bike. When Bautista left MotoGP in 2018, his team did not have the ride-height-device, I believe. Same for Redding.
So the rider that has ridden the latest GP-bike before moving to Superbikes is actually Petrucci. Despite some decent results, he is still adapting to the WSBK-Ducati.
One can see that riders that are having a good run on WSBK-bikes are actually from Moto2, which seems closer to a Superbike to me. Bulega and Locatelli come to mind there.
Personally I would like to see a healthy rivalry between MotoGP and WSBK. With riders having one offs here and there, fans cheering for their guy trying to beat the other paddock.
Very interesting video, I agree with you. In my opinion it all has to do with the stiffness of the chassis you'v learned on. If you have learned in soft road bikes you have no chance to compete with guys that have learned in GP bikes since they'r 8 years only. The automatic response they have develop from childness is not reacheable when your in the 20's after competing for 10 years in road bikes cause you have other reactions.
Rae “maybe” could have done it on the right bike but that boat sailed a couple of years ago. Toprak can not be written off. Bautista had a good career there but is nearly 40 now so forget him in going back to GPs
Hey man, Really loved your induction hob video, 👍 Heard it got deleted? 😢 Any way it can be recreated? 😊
Edwards was Rossi's teammate from 2005 to 2007 not 06 and 07.😮
He also almost won a race, crashing on the last corner.
In first I thought you crazy…But them reconsidering I saw the light, I think you are right. Starting in the Moto’s Gran pri 1 2 3 and then GP is different from going to SBK and them transition to the higher level of MotoGP. But, is the reverse true? coming from MotoGP to SBK would be beneficial or disastrous?
From the start, WSBK was designed to eventually replace MotoGP as the Premier Class.
It may be that MotoGP and WSBK will be deprecated in favor of a fortified Moto-E.
it's just how it is, it's kinda like how football ⚽ works , the best league is the most desirable which makes it more attractive to young upcoming talents that's why European leagues have the best and most talented players , for motorbike racing , Motogp is the most desirable that's why the most talented riders are in it and not in wsbk , if someone like Bautista (who is very talented yet didn't even stand a chance at winning through out his 8 yrs in Motogp , and had 3 podium finishes all being 3rd place) can dominate in wsbk imagine what Marc , Pecco , Martin , Quateraro ... can do , but I would doubt the top guys in wsbk would even crack the top 10 in Motogp atm.
Suits me, I used to love World superbikes. I've always hated moto gp. They arent real bikes that you can buy. They should never have been allowed to go from 500 2-stroke to 4-stroke.
If BMW had a MotoGp bike riden by a WSB champion it would wipe the floor with the rest.
A generational talent like Toprak wasnt really given a chance now was he?
Perhaps given a year or 2 and a Ducati, one wouldn't bet against him but we wont know
Motogp bike is much harder to ride with all the tech, ride height device, aero stuff, stiffer bike which allowed riders to push harder but harder to get feedbacks from the bike. You really have to ride the bike the way it needs to be ride, if your bike is bad then basically you stand no chance as compared to the past where you can forcefully will or ride the bike to the way you want to push the limit.
Thw front michelin tyres is inferior to bridgestone tyres. Michelin tyres front is too soft and weaker. You cant brakw too hard/load too hard as it will collapse too early causing you to lowside crash.
Because the tyres lifepspan is shorter and it crashed too easily. Most rider are now taking similar lines to preserve their tyres which made the race boring.
Bridgestone tyres. You can basically throw the bike at every corner to take different line in attempt to overtake and it still wont crash which made thr race alot better
listen to Casey Stoner talk about why it's hard to win on a modern day MotoGP bike. they're so full of 'rider aids' like Ride height device and all this other stuff that it's almost more about who can make the best use of the aids at the right time than it is rider skill.
How can you miss Nicky Hayden from AmA Superbike becoming a world motogp champion. Who else has done that.
Eddie Lawson
@gbone7581 there U go!! Great memory. I had for got about fast Eddie.
@@jesuschrist-alphaomega Steady Eddie, Fast Freddy Spencer also raced Superbikes before going to GP's.
@@gbone7581 Rainey ,schwantz ama straight to 500cc GP’s
Great video, mate, shame about Toprak 😢.
Your camera's autofocus is tough to watch. 😅.
I know! I'm reading through an autocue, so it's a pain to keep testing the focus. Auto Focus didn't even work! :)
@@SuperbikeJohn All good mate, you got a subscription from me anyhoo. :)
If Toprak becomes Motogp champion in 2027, you will have made the worst aging video on youtube.
I think the biggest change to who comes into MotoGP could be Moto2 switching to Pirelli tires.
There are many reasons why WSBK riders do not move to MotoGP - stiffer chassis requiring a different ridning style and the huge re-education around electronics are a couple mentioned fairly regularly. However, talking to a few involved I am hearing the biggest reasons are surrounding lifestyle ... length of season/number of rounds and the massive increase in time demands/pressure in regard to media and sponsor duties being the biggest factors. Recently the evolution of aero nad ride height devices has also been something many find difficult to adapt to when given test sessions. With the new regulations for 2027 I expect the gap between series to close as far as riders ability to adapt goes.
Saying that, I expect if Toprak takes up the Honda offer for 2025 that he will slot in a lot easier than many.
Can't really fault your analysis. The classes have just become too different and there's too much time pressure, which prevents patient rider development
I can't possibly claim to understand the mechanical differences between classes well enough to make an informed guess if WSBK riders could have a future in MotoGP, but... I fear we will find out this year. With 44 races in MotoGP there will likely be even more injury-related substitutions. And the last few races of this season already looked like the 16th hour of Bol d'Or or LeMans 24h, where hardly anyone really understands what is happening around them and silly mistakes are not only made, but also not noticed.
Scott Russell in 1966?
We can see many top 10-15 MotoGP riders past and present moving to SBK and success competing there and some become champions. It isn't many on the other way around even they are/were top 5-10 SBK riders. These phenomena also happen when F1 top 10-15 drivers go for refugee competing in Indy. However, not so may in vice versa. These happen because F1 is the pinnacle of opened wheel racing and MotoGP is the pinnacle of 2 wheel racing. It means F1 drivers' talent pool are higher than Indy one and MotoGP riders' talent pool are higher than SBK one.
I wonder how much the Simoncelli incident influenced C Edwards to stop racing. I always liked Collin and Cal. It was also nice to see Pedrosa again, perform well and almost on the podium this year. Dude can ride. :) Maybe if they want to go GP, go GP, and forget about SBK. And other way around as well.
I wonder as well. Clearly nothing Colin could do about it, but I know I would be tormented to some extent.
Once again, great video! I would compare MotoGP to F1 and WSBK to touring cars. So they are completely different disciplines. And you can go in to WSBK from MotoGP and win, but the other way around would be very difficult to do. It is easier to get closer to the edge on a softer chassis and harder tyres (WSBK) than it is to do it on a harder chassis (MotoGP).
Thank you. A good analogy, but the performance gap is much closer. If a TC lapped within a second of an F1 car, you'd expect the transition to be achieved. But, then again, if a TC could do that, it may be in a completely different way, so your last point is very true.
WSBK = GT3
MotoGP =F1
you're wrong. MotoGP tyres were also harder. many riders complained about that. all the light small riders like Pedrosa, Bautista etc... and of course SBK boys. Spies stated not so long ago i quote "in WSBK we had soft tyre casing (Dunlop) and softer chassis which allowed us to muscle the bike up easier in the braking phase and they had tons of feedback. MotoGP bikes just don't and are like bricks with harder tyre casing. which forces you to ride very tidy and smooth to keep the cornering speed up. i was more of a hard braker, lift the bike up and go! i struggled to do that because of all my years riding superbikes." he even said that had he knew that better back then, never he would've made the move to GP.
In MotoGP, there is lesser room for error and less errors too while riding.
In WSBK, there is so much error and recovery happening in every corner, and bikes are not crisp and perfect in terms of corner exit exhilaration, grip level, stability durning cornering, frame rigidity etc.
Both are exciting, but WSBK is inferior to MotoGP.
cost of mgp bike towards wsb bike,is huge,for very little quicker lap time.Cant see these 2 classes continuing
Not enough MotoGP rides and too many good riders from Moto2 forcing their way in, when a Moto2 World Champion such as Remy only gets one year on a crap bike before being ousted then what chance will a WSBK rider have to adapt and prove their worth.
There's a clear path to MotoGP and it's not WSBK, the only direction of travel these days is unsuccessful MotoGP riders going to WSBK when they lose their MotoGP ride.
Btw I like Dixon but don't think he will make it to MotoGP, not unless he starts winning in Moto2 regularly. For much the same reasons as I stated above, you gotta be the cream of the crop of Moto2 to get into MotoGP.
Scott Russell was not the 1994 Champion... He won the 1993 WSBK title.
Alex Barros raced on both classes too.
Dude you forget about haga 😅, also there's a handfull of japanese rider who goes to gp for a wild card from superbike. Like Akira ryo etc
Toprak can. He is immensely talented on 2 wheels
“ IM NOT BIASED”
Mick Doohan was competing in ASBK not AMA in 1988
i Love Moto GP but it has gone the way of F1 in that its a tech race.
WSBK is limited by the requirement to be based on a road bike (albeit heavily modified) so the difference between the 2 is now huge as will be the learning curve.
the very best will get too grips with the tech but most wont.
WSBK riders need to go into Moto2 1st.
man forgot about Stoprak, no one can stop that man
Toprak can't win in MotoGP.
Not sure how old you are. But when it comes to racing. You never ever say never again. You'll eat your words in your life time.
Well said John but you have forgot that the bike today are more relying on the technology side which make it more unpredictable for the riders to know the limit. Even Marc has been talking about it. Personally it ain't that bad it'a just so difficult know in terms of riding. MSMA are still looking for a right balance before they reach the final decision before 2027 when the regulations change.
For Jake I think his cance to move up the ladder has expeired. It should have been this year. I thought his passport & support from TNT could able to secure him a spot on the grid. I think its a bit blurry now. We just hope Scott Ogden & Josh Whatley could finally get their breakout year. Giving them an opportinity to move to Moto2 in 2025.
I think Toprak is going to do it.
On a BMW.
They must have given bayliss an overnight tyre to win that race in 2006.
i think eugene laverty was the last person you go from wsbk to motogp did a fair job but by then motogp bikes were way ahead then wsbk
I think your opinion was confirmed by Bautista in Malaysia. Without doubt Bautista is as good a racer as we have in wsbk, and in Malaysia he wasn't even remotely competitive, despite having tested on the bike before, and Malaysia being his favourite track.
If he couldn't compete under those circumstances chances of anyone else from wsbk racing at the front are remote indeed.
Yea, Bautista was an eye opener. I think he was carrying an injury, and the conditions were way different to the test where he was quick.
Bayliss was a replacement rider for a Sete Gibernau in 2006 not a wild card
If you gave Toprak or Johnny a top bike and 2-3 years and they would get a win.
Because they won't let them into the series. TopRack could have won the title.
Superbikes is where GP riders go to boost their retirement fund
Honestly. I think WSBK is more interesting than motoGP now at the moment with rider swithing. But I believe 2025 will be bigger for MOTOgp due to alot of contracts ending.
I completely agree w you. But then im not an expert so both of us maybe just making assumpyions🤣
Gobert had a nose for speed 😂😂😂😂😂