as far as that bodega being a grail, it makes me think of a victoria secret model with a liberty spike mohawk. it's Fugly. you cut through hype and then you create your own. nice!
Great video brother. I just got my first hindered, a battle blue working finish, spear point stone wash, gen 6 XM-18 with blue G10. I bought a bronze deep carry clip and bronze standoffs and some blue screws and i love it. A year ago I wouldn’t let this thing out of my bedroom, but i have a new outlook on knives today and if i buy them i use them. I bought this knife to use it and its going to be my main carry. At first i was let down because of the action with the washers but the bearings are much better and once i played with it for a couple days i just cant put this thing down. LOVE IT
The only thing I don't like about your vids, is I can never come up with something to argue with you on. Everything you say is spot on with what I think.
Well, as I try to be very specific, I did in all fairness mention that factory vs factory pricing, the F3 is a tiny bit more expensive, but you do gain an additional Ti side (which costs $200 on a HInderer IF you find one) and you get IKBS which I feel the XM Flippers need.
Cool video. I only recently got into Hinderer and now have my first XM-18. A 3” warncliffe with the triway. It’s one of my favourite edc knives now. It’s great now that supply that met up with demand and that the secondary market prices stabilised.
Not sure you did watch all of it... you're saying exactly what I did (except the Strider comments). I did mention that it has to be flipped a bit differently, I did mention that I had just lubricated and cleaned mine, and that's why it performs better, and I was very clear to differentiate between factory pricing and secondary market pricing on all of my price commentary.
Yeah, mine was a bit "slow", but when I tore it down today to clean it and change the scale, I used the oil I got from Brian Tighe... and now it's just as smooth but flipping twice as well and a lot faster.
This is the first knife video I ever watched on youtube. It took me down the “Skelton Rabbit Hole” and started my addiction. I have no idea if you’ll even see this comment (the vid is if course, wicked old) but I wanted to thank you, sir.
For less than $70 you can get a Kershaw Blur 1670S30V on Amazon. This knife is a solid Every Day Carry knife with high quality steel. It came right out of the box with a tight locking and perfectly centered blade.
Al Blenny, It is related, when the Kershaw is about $330 cheaper than the Hinderer. All he's doing is throwing out his opinion about the Kershaw Blur and he's right. What are you? The TH-cam Police? You sound more like a Nazi than a Policeman. "YOU HAVE AN OPINION ON SOMETHING!!?? STFU!!! YOU CAN'T STATE YOUR OPINION ON THE INTERNET!!!"
Why the fuck are all of these expensive upper end knives so thick! EDC'ing thick knives sucks, I mean i understand that it shows expense and its strong but trying to meet fixed blade strength in a flipper is foolish. So whats the point, ill take a thin knife anyday for edc, and a fixed blade if i need alittle more.
The Hinderers really don;t use thick blade stock as compared to most "tactical style" folders out there. Rick designed his knives to be used on duty with emergency rescue/fire and crafted it around their daily needs in a knife. I would venture to guess that he had seen flimsier knives break or bend during his use of them and wanted to make his beefier.
Jim Skelton Grab one and star twisting the knife his early lock up will release and the knife will fold in your hand. I am a EMT firefighter, I love the flipping action and sound on these but the large thick not strong lock up is a failer and not really safe. Definably not something I would want to be prying on in the dark. Also I don't think I would use a $600 knife for that. It is all marketing....
Andrew Trigueros I really doubt that most (not all obviously) people are using these expensive knives for much more than opening the next knife box in the mail. So with that in mind, they look tough and/or cool to many. I am one of those with a Hinderer flipper that has NO business being called a flipper. You have to leave the pivit loose enough to fall open in your pocket if you have any hope of it flipping. Some of them have gotten better in the later stages of the later generations, but the consistency is all over the place. It is a shame because they are fantastic knives, built like tanks, expensive but get a detent that is hit or miss with the odds at a poor casino. If you want one, buy it from someone or somewhere that will test and explain the specific detent of the actual specific knife you are buying. Because while they are known to have great customer service, for some reason it too doesn't cover the detent. They will talk about breakin, technique, blah blah blah. For that money, it should work. If Kershaw can do it for $30 bucks, they should be able to do it for 600 $+, or at least correct it. No other knife I have come across at those price points says tough, return it. It really is mind boggling.
I think you might be misunderstanding what I've said in the video. The Brous... under $400 when it releases. A Spyderco Southard, under $300. Too many to list honestly... and they fly open. I directly mentioned the Direware in the vid, and talked about how people are gouging on them, even mentioned one on eBay for $2,000. You misunderstood my detent comments here too, the Bogega, the Lightfoot, etc have STRONG, positive detents which allow for better flipping. The XM does not.
I think that's what really made me make this vid. You see them clearly struggling to open the knife... even after they say that it is broken in... and then they say how smooth and perfect it is.
On the oldest Strider I have the old style Henderer colored lock bar stabilizer looks really nice, wish they still used the old style on Striders, Henderers, and CRk's.
Never held or even saw first hand any Hinderer before I bought a used one from a buddy of mine. He had been telling me for months that once you hold one in your hand, your whole outlook on how a knife should feel would change. Well, he was right! I paid $650 for a Gen3 3.5 Spanto (at the time a very good price) for that knife. And the first time I held it I knew that it was "THE" knife for hard use EDC. Was it a lot of money for a used knife? Yes, but it's going to be with me for life.
The XM24 was the heaviest 4" flipper I ever held, and the spanto blade is designed more to survive prying/abuse-purposed for those who need a folder that must survive emergency abuse. The XM18 is much more EDC friendly for me. That said, my EDC just rotated from a Protech Rockeye auto to a Begg Bodega FG. Jim, your on the money with the actions on the Brous & Bodega blades.
Listen to that part again, and the comparisons I am making.. and the reasons for it. If someone were considering this as a "grail", no... the slotted pivot would not meet their expectation. I did clearly say that I liked it because it was practical, and useful on a practical EDC knife, which is what this design is intended for.
It's temporary because Rick just did a run a few weeks ago, so there are a lot of people with them for sale. In a couple months when only a few are out there for sale, they will go right back up to $800+
I love mine too. I heard the 4th Gen XM-18's have much better detents, but they refuse to work on any older gen detent according to their website FAQ section
Great JOB Jim! I carry my Direware daily, and was fortunate enough to get on his books for several of his knives, but I must say that if I had to pay secondary prices for a Direware I probably would.
As Jim says in this video, "this is just one man's opinion." I presently own a Hinderer as shown in the video (but a spearpoint blade). I was going to sell it and keep the Sebenza I just ordered. I received the large Sebenza 21 in the mail and I was ready to return it back to the seller after 5 minutes of taking it out of box. Nice knife, incredibly wimpy pocket clip compared to how the knife is built, could not justify the price. I returned it. But what having the Sebenza for a few minutes did, is make me realize just how well built my Hinderer is. I am keeping my Hinderer.
I like your vids, you do a lot of large folders .. I am a large folder knife guy, I own most of them! My best edc is the Andre de villas Pit boss 2 .Thanks for your videos good job!
I totally agree with your comment at the end about the cheaper knives. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand what the appeal is in a folder that costs more than a hundred or so dollars. My Spydercos have been great to me, but what do I know??
And this is exactly why I sold my XM-24. It would hardly flip after a few months of working it and it WOULD NOT deploy with the thumb stud because the detent was so ridiculous. I miss the toolness of it, but I don't miss the knife.
This is exactly the kind of "review" I needed for this knife. I personally don't think I could ever purchase a "safe queen" I dont find the point in purchasing a knife that I won't want to use, though I do understand collecting knives.I luckily will be able to purchase this knife at the retail price (military discount) and I plan on using it much the same way I do my current ZT0350, anything from cutting boxes to prying open windows and doors.
April 2017: Just ordered a spanto flipper 3.5" 20cv Hinderer. $425. Worth ever penny of that. Gen 4. Now is the time to get what you want. I wanted an SnG. Got one. Love it. But this Hinderer is better for best work. The SnG is light duty beast work. The XM18 is carve my name in your car hood beastwork!
Both of my XM-18 3.5" Slicers needed about a day and a half of break end to flip 100% of the time. I do have to load up to get them to flip still though.
I just got my first Hinderer, an Eklipse model. For the money, I'm very pleased with it. I have found its much smoother and easier to flip that my friend's XM18. I think Jim hit the nail right on the head though, these knives are built to be used, and used hard. Sure, they look great too, but they're a hard use cutting tool. Period. As always, great video Jim. Keep em coming.
Great question. I had wondered that myself until I watched Greg Medford's video about why a Praetorian Ti costs double that the G and A models do. Just the bits they use for their titanium grooving cost a TON which is not an expense they have in the A of G models. Check out his vid, it's really good.
No, but I have handled a couple. IMO it's a big difference. The ZT is a super high quality knife in it's own right, just not in the same league (nor should it be considering the price difference)
Good tip. Luckily, mine fell right into a nice groove for me. Short of somehow converting it to thrust bearings or IKBS, I wouldn't think it could get much better.
Yes I know this video is four years old and as such I'm not sure of the secondary market prices today I haven't taken the time to look but I had no problem finding my XM-18. I picked mine up at Monkey Edge for $425 (current factory market price) so with this being the case what's with all of the price gauging and why are people paying such high secondary market prices for XM-18's and XM-24's?
i nevee considered buying the xm18 3.5" until i went to a knife show. rick brought a ton if xm.s. i got mine for 385. cheaper than my first sebenza i recently got too. totally worth it. the ang and smf felt flimsy compared to the xm. this vid made me bust it out for use again. it did take some time breaking in. now she just falls closed and flips super easy. i think grailss go in steps. if your xollectuon is mainly knivea under a 100.00 then yes it can be a grail
OMG Jim you've made the most sense in any of your other videos! I think most the knives you rave about are ridiculous take the Bodega for instance. The openings in the blade, the seams in the handle, all dirt magnets. Once you opened the blade with the flipper, the noise it made, like Wolverine's craws. The way the blade snapped out and locked like a bank vault door. Oh yeah, I'm saving my pennies, I will have one.
Nice! Will is putting the finishing touches on a Mk6 for me right now, and when his next run of Mk12's are coming, he has me on his list for that as well.
I've had several XM-18's and XM-24's....I sold them all after getting to know Hinderer and Orlando better...bad experience. I wrote an article about it. I've got a couple of 0550's and am perfectly satisfied.
Great vid Jim! Any idea how much the custom Hinderer's go for directly from Rick? I see a custom XM-24 Wharncliffe in the Cove right now for just about $3k... O_O
I love your philosophy. All of my knives are users. I'm glad to see someone say this is not the best knife ever. Although the most expensive knife I own i a Cold Steel Rajah 2, $120, I use it all the time. One of my favorite EDC.
Great review. Thank you. Would not pay extra to get into a party I am not invited though. Factory price seems fair, but not the secondary market price. Just my bit. Cheers
The small 3" wharncliffe iteration of this knife is discontinued and has become a bit of a collectible. It's very difficult to find one, while the other models are now plentifully available on eBay. In light of this, it might make sense to buy a 3" WC as a collectible, rather than a user.
When i saw the cover to this video, i came to spend almost 30 minutes, such a beauti and such a nice blade. For the money this knifes blades pattern and design is world class. For collected the same concept of cause cost more money, if the finish have to follow into 800 $, but with the same knife patterns design. Exactly that makes it for me simpel advanced blade and grip, and absolut world class that i like so much for this piece ! This knife i personal would like in professional total night black finish. 30 my minutes worth, nice video.
I see where you're getting at Jim, but a grail knife is a grail knife, everybody has it's own 'needs to have it blades' for some it's a spyderco / Benchmade, for others a bodega, or a Sebenza.. i know i wanted a Lisa's pick after i got my first sebbie, and waited one the one i felt was calling to me, and in feb 2012 it happend.. that for me is a grail knife, and it still is, it's been in my posession ever since, same way with the XM's the first 3"beater i got second hand, i wanted to try one out, and it's in EDC rotation sinde 2011. not calling it a grail, but his 3.5" and 4"brothers i'm calling a grail knife, same as when i'm getting the 2nd gen 3.5" and the custom bowie i'm eyeballing ever since i layed my eyes upon it.. pfcorse with out it's logo's.. again i see where you're going, but a grail knife doesn't have to be flashy, with carbon fiber or with gold inlays or a full ti frame of with some freaky flamed titanium or timascus.. sure looks cool, but that doesn't define grail. and it shouldn't.. grail is for EVERYONE something else no matter what it's made from.. heck years back a halo V was a grail for me, now that's stupid!
I have owned a Hoback Kwaiback (fantastic), a Curtis F3, a Spyderco Military Titanium, and other great knives. In terms of comfort, build, practicality, I would have to say I prefer my Hinderer XM-24 over all of them. The Kwaiback is a $700 knife and for every day carry, I just did not want to beat it up. Not sure about other peoples' experience, but my Curtis F3 clip would often hang up on the hems in my pants pocket, did not like the location of the clip, a deal breaker for me. The Spyderco Military Titanium, great knife but the blade feels more like a precision scalpel to do surgery with, not a hard use blade. The Hinderer, if one is not addicted to sitting around flipping it all day, is built to be used and abused, super comfortable to hold, and the spearpoint blade is fantastic for me, being in Hawaii whacking open papayas, avocados and coconuts all day! We all have our preferences, I know. But I finally decided, do I want a fancy knife to look and flip while sitting at my desk or do I want a knife to use as a tool? I spent the $600 on the XM-24, and I am keeping it! By the way, it flips perfectly with just a small amount of wrist action added with the flipper.
Forgot to mention that I did replace the Teflon washers with bronze phosphor washers, and it did help with the smoothness and improved the flipping action.
Were people really paying $1k for production Hinderer XMs in 2013? I'm surprised anyone would consider the XM a grail knife. I guess if you're coming from a Gerber it would seem like it. Production XM models are high quality, no doubt, and their fit and finish isn't anything to shake a stick at. But at $425 (what the XM-18s seem to average at retail today), you're either getting an incredible beater, a respectable show piece, or a compromise of both. If you want a grail knife from Hinderer, look at their customs, and be prepared to spend in the neighborhood of $1k+ (same as the rest). That said, if you're looking for the perfect balance of quality materials and hardware, precision in craftsmanship, functional features, and ergonomic design, Hinderer is second to none.
+Charles Godewyn Yea it's hard to believe how much they were going for back then now that they're readily available at dealers for 425$... I'd be pretty choked if I got sucked into the hype and picked one up when they were at their peak on the secondary market. I'm definitely going to end up grabbing an XM18 or 24 at some point now that they're going for what they should be. Hopefully one of those full FDE versions if I can find one for the right price. A big thing about these that kind of makes me happy is that some of the dick heads that bought them with the sole purpose of flipping them for ridiculous amounts of profit probably got stuck with theirs and lost money on them. I remember people thinking they could grab a couple even at a high price and sit on them to flip down the road, thinking they'd keep going up in price. Those guys definitely play a part in why the secondary market is so ridiculous these days. It seems like a bunch of them don't even care about or enjoy knives really anyways they have everything up for sale within days of receiving it... So fuck em!
Yup, i bought my xm-18 for 750 in 2011. Don't regret it though, has been beaten up and used on a daily basis. Bought another XM in 2016 ( at 425) and an mp-1 just 2 weeks ago
I totally agree with you Jim on this matter. I will take my Andre Thorburn L-51 any day for $800 any day and we all know how well they flip. I bought two of them to rotate.
To me the production collector my grail knife would be the spiderco miltary sprint runs, that is a high quality knife, and for £200 you get something with crisper lines, superb desighn and s30v steel, by the way what steel does the hinderer use.
I was wondering, could you do a review on your Combative Edge M1 if you still have it? I've been looking into getting one and I really like how you review knives.
What do you think of the Medford Micro Praetorian G? I really love the look of it. I'm totally new to nice knives and I'd really like to get into a high quality, premium production edc blade.
it's taken months since I dropped my (15oz) Kabar BK2 on my shin, and I still haven't recovered. So much blood. My only fix blade, really dig the design. The 1095 Cro-Van steel is super tough and holds its edge, but I keep it lightly covered with mineral oil to keep away rust, though keeping it dry is probably sufficient since it never gets over 35% humidity here in the San Francisco Bay Area. That said, I'd be VERY interested in this same exact knife, blade shape and all, in CPM-20CV, M390, or another more stainless "super" steel. Okay, this became a rant and rave about my BK2, but what an awesome knife that is under $90 and MADE IN THE USA! You have to excuse me, I'm totally rattling on here.
@@jshphysicistatyahoo thinking very similarly too you ! Maybe even a CPM-S110V or another 10V class - A11 class steel. I'd love the most edge retentive knifes known to man... idk how to feel about one in Maxamet or Rex-121 or something where the Rockwell is up around in that 67+ range.
@JIm Skelton - in the 6.5 years since you made this video, and the HInderer XM-24 having improved in model consistency, fit, finish, and this choice given by the tri-pivot system, has this knife possibly elevated from a "user's knife" to something more collectible? (Anyway, I'm of the opinion that when the knife features are more about fanciness than function, they become jewelry.)
Good points. Do you think a Medford Praetorian Ti is worth the $1200 price tag? I think its an amazing knife but totally out of my price range. I have a praetorian a on order
I appreciate the reply. No, of course they don;t have to tell you how to flip it, but then again... it shouldn't require any thought or different way to flip it. Pick up a Bodega, A Southard, almost any quality custom flipper... flick your finger across it and the blade should FLY open. The detent on the Hinderer does not allow for this, and the lack of bearings makes it even worse. There are BTW great flippers out there without bearings too.
I really like the design of the XM-24 and I think the factory price is justified but my ZT-0560 just simply in my price range. I admit I have a knife addiction and someday I just might get a Hinderer. For now, I'm very happy with my ZT birthday gift. :)
For a number of years, I wanted an XM-18. I ran across a used one on ebay...and ended up paying about $625 for it. That was at the top end of what I was willing to pay. And I've bought other knives for that money...that I consider to be every bit as good as an XM-18 (Kirby Lambert Justice, for example). Still, I love my Hinderer. Am super glad that I bought it? YES. Would I pay more for it? Yeah...another $25 and that's it. The prices are ridiculous for the Hinderers. So...I have one of those...and use similar money to buy other custom knives.
I'm pretty much with you on this one Jim. I've worked on my fair share of XM's over the years, and I can make one special, but from the factory... idk. Funny you mentioned Direware, I think I had the only green anodized Solo 2 out there, custom ordered it and waited for a year and a half... but getting it in hand, they're way too big for any practical carry use. Not a bad knife, just exaggerated proportions to the point where it lost all of its utility in my view.
There are actually Rick Hinderer knives in the Zero Tolerance brand too. They go for around $200-$300 depending on which one you get. And they are every bit as good as his customs. Look pretty much the same too.
Do you really think people watching this video don't already know about the ZT Hinderers? And if you think ZT's are as "good" as the "custom" Hinderers, you don't know much. There are 2 classes of Hinderers. Custom and production.
With all the negative aspects of it, I believe I'm going with an XM-18 3.5 vintage, black dlc coating, smooth walnut . I am a forklift operator/Truck Driver for an agricultural company (maple syrup). Seems like the XM-18 3.5 or maybe the XM-24 vintage would be perfect for me, I enjoy sharpening (when needed) & stropping. Any ideas out there of possibly a better knife ? Or a competitive knife? Or even the "perfect" knife for me, please. By all means let me know, I'm all ears. .... (and love general knife talk)
The Tactility is a great knife actually, so good choice. Try to find a Katana as well. Hopefully you already have a Spyderco Manix 2? If not, add it to the list.
I wish you'd accept the free market. Please don't shame on people selling at the price they can get for it. The profit they left to be made would simply be made by the people who bought the knifes, adding more steps, overhead and time before it gets to the actual user. Just let it be, people make profits all the time, don't expect 'fair' just because the item is in an area that you deal in a lot. Good review, nice picture quality etc etc. I appreciate you sharing your opinion on these knifes - thanks!
Striders, customs, Curtiss. I love it so far. Surge is my favorite. I'd like to try a slicer. I love CRK, Strider and now Hinderer. Can't wait for my 3.25" El Patron, 3" Stout and the ZT 0801. That and the Spyderco Southard for the price, material and quality are an insane value. Productions toe the line with the "cookie cutter" feel. The three main mid tech guys do not. Too each their own. In the end I agree. A flipper needs to flip. Detent is a basic important part of any folder.
Sig took Rick's XM-18 and put the Legion symbol and coloring on it. Beautiful knife. They were selling for $500, but they just came out with a sale of $175 off of it. Yes I jumped, a nice companion to my Legion P226. No looking back at $325.
Jim: So now that H's are way down in price, mine was xm18 ($415.00), many people have last around $4-500? I was just waiting for Rick to increase production before I bought. At current retail, the knife is excellent buy for me. Thoughts!
If buy scoring a XM "as a tool" i feel productions got lots of options that will do the job as good, if not better. Is there reviews of high end hammers?
Just discovered you a few weeks ago. Really enjoy your videos. I got my 3" XM-18 brand new for $600. I felt the dealer was making a good profit without gouging. I can not stand dealers selling the same knife for $800-$900. With the "correct" technique, mine flips fairly well. I find it equivalent in use to a CRK or Strider. I do find the Hinderers a bit generic, where as the CRK's and Strider's seem to have more soul and win on the intangibles.
as far as that bodega being a grail, it makes me think of a victoria secret model with a liberty spike mohawk. it's Fugly. you cut through hype and then you create your own. nice!
Great video brother. I just got my first hindered, a battle blue working finish, spear point stone wash, gen 6 XM-18 with blue G10. I bought a bronze deep carry clip and bronze standoffs and some blue screws and i love it. A year ago I wouldn’t let this thing out of my bedroom, but i have a new outlook on knives today and if i buy them i use them. I bought this knife to use it and its going to be my main carry. At first i was let down because of the action with the washers but the bearings are much better and once i played with it for a couple days i just cant put this thing down. LOVE IT
The only thing I don't like about your vids, is I can never come up with something to argue with you on. Everything you say is spot on with what I think.
Well, as I try to be very specific, I did in all fairness mention that factory vs factory pricing, the F3 is a tiny bit more expensive, but you do gain an additional Ti side (which costs $200 on a HInderer IF you find one) and you get IKBS which I feel the XM Flippers need.
I've watched a few of videos lately and love your style, new sub and awesome knives. That Boris blades is soooooo smooth
Cool video. I only recently got into Hinderer and now have my first XM-18. A 3” warncliffe with the triway. It’s one of my favourite edc knives now.
It’s great now that supply that met up with demand and that the secondary market prices stabilised.
Not sure you did watch all of it... you're saying exactly what I did (except the Strider comments). I did mention that it has to be flipped a bit differently, I did mention that I had just lubricated and cleaned mine, and that's why it performs better, and I was very clear to differentiate between factory pricing and secondary market pricing on all of my price commentary.
I love your blunt honesty.
-also you have beautiful taste in knives :) glad to have found your channel.
Great feedback, it's refreshing to hear someone actually say it, thanks!
Yeah, mine was a bit "slow", but when I tore it down today to clean it and change the scale, I used the oil I got from Brian Tighe... and now it's just as smooth but flipping twice as well and a lot faster.
The lanyard hole and screws are a face. Try and unsee that.
Every time I look at my knife I'm going to see that.............. Why do you do this...
I hate you...
Fuck
LMFAO!!! DAMNIT
This is the first knife video I ever watched on youtube. It took me down the “Skelton Rabbit Hole” and started my addiction. I have no idea if you’ll even see this comment (the vid is if course, wicked old) but I wanted to thank you, sir.
I really enjoy your reviews; unbiased and logical. Great work, man.
For less than $70 you can get a Kershaw Blur 1670S30V on Amazon. This knife is a solid Every Day Carry knife with high quality steel. It came right out of the box with a tight locking and perfectly centered blade.
Do you work for Kershaw? What the F*$@ does that have to do with this video? You sound like the "I like turtles kid".
Um no, his answer was……I like my Kershaw Blur. Totally unrelated.
great knife, also you can get a spyderco delica frn handle for $48 on amazon, i just got one and love it.
+Al g Blenny the answer is that if kershaw can produce an edc knife just as good for 70$ its probably not worth it.
Al Blenny, It is related, when the Kershaw is about $330 cheaper than the Hinderer. All he's doing is throwing out his opinion about the Kershaw Blur and he's right. What are you? The TH-cam Police? You sound more like a Nazi than a Policeman. "YOU HAVE AN OPINION ON SOMETHING!!?? STFU!!! YOU CAN'T STATE YOUR OPINION ON THE INTERNET!!!"
Why the fuck are all of these expensive upper end knives so thick! EDC'ing thick knives sucks, I mean i understand that it shows expense and its strong but trying to meet fixed blade strength in a flipper is foolish. So whats the point, ill take a thin knife anyday for edc, and a fixed blade if i need alittle more.
The Hinderers really don;t use thick blade stock as compared to most "tactical style" folders out there. Rick designed his knives to be used on duty with emergency rescue/fire and crafted it around their daily needs in a knife. I would venture to guess that he had seen flimsier knives break or bend during his use of them and wanted to make his beefier.
Jim Skelton Grab one and star twisting the knife his early lock up will release and the knife will fold in your hand. I am a EMT firefighter, I love the flipping action and sound on these but the large thick not strong lock up is a failer and not really safe. Definably not something I would want to be prying on in the dark. Also I don't think I would use a $600 knife for that. It is all marketing....
if I bought that knife, I'd use it for an army deployment or camping. That would be a terrible EDC for office work.
Andrew Trigueros I really doubt that most (not all obviously) people are using these expensive knives for much more than opening the next knife box in the mail. So with that in mind, they look tough and/or cool to many.
I am one of those with a Hinderer flipper that has NO business being called a flipper. You have to leave the pivit loose enough to fall open in your pocket if you have any hope of it flipping. Some of them have gotten better in the later stages of the later generations, but the consistency is all over the place. It is a shame because they are fantastic knives, built like tanks, expensive but get a detent that is hit or miss with the odds at a poor casino.
If you want one, buy it from someone or somewhere that will test and explain the specific detent of the actual specific knife you are buying. Because while they are known to have great customer service, for some reason it too doesn't cover the detent. They will talk about breakin, technique, blah blah blah. For that money, it should work. If Kershaw can do it for $30 bucks, they should be able to do it for 600 $+, or at least correct it. No other knife I have come across at those price points says tough, return it. It really is mind boggling.
I think you might be misunderstanding what I've said in the video. The Brous... under $400 when it releases. A Spyderco Southard, under $300. Too many to list honestly... and they fly open. I directly mentioned the Direware in the vid, and talked about how people are gouging on them, even mentioned one on eBay for $2,000. You misunderstood my detent comments here too, the Bogega, the Lightfoot, etc have STRONG, positive detents which allow for better flipping. The XM does not.
Very well put!! Major difference between grail knives and expensive hard use knives.. Thanks for the vid..
I liked how you said its an amazing user, not a safe queen. I personally haven't seen an xm with a bead blast like yours, but I love the stonewash.
Who saw how happy the last two stand offs and the lanyard hole make the knife look
I think that's what really made me make this vid. You see them clearly struggling to open the knife... even after they say that it is broken in... and then they say how smooth and perfect it is.
On the oldest Strider I have the old style Henderer colored lock bar stabilizer looks really nice, wish they still used the old style on Striders, Henderers, and CRk's.
The contest "T" arrives on Thursday, the one I bought with the S35VN will be here in about 15 weeks
Never held or even saw first hand any Hinderer before I bought a used one from a buddy of mine. He had been telling me for months that once you hold one in your hand, your whole outlook on how a knife should feel would change. Well, he was right! I paid $650 for a Gen3 3.5 Spanto (at the time a very good price) for that knife. And the first time I held it I knew that it was "THE" knife for hard use EDC. Was it a lot of money for a used knife? Yes, but it's going to be with me for life.
The XM24 was the heaviest 4" flipper I ever held, and the spanto blade is designed more to survive prying/abuse-purposed for those who need a folder that must survive emergency abuse. The XM18 is much more EDC friendly for me. That said, my EDC just rotated from a Protech Rockeye auto to a Begg Bodega FG. Jim, your on the money with the actions on the Brous & Bodega blades.
Thank god they changed the lock bar tension and the detent on these
Listen to that part again, and the comparisons I am making.. and the reasons for it. If someone were considering this as a "grail", no... the slotted pivot would not meet their expectation. I did clearly say that I liked it because it was practical, and useful on a practical EDC knife, which is what this design is intended for.
It's temporary because Rick just did a run a few weeks ago, so there are a lot of people with them for sale. In a couple months when only a few are out there for sale, they will go right back up to $800+
I love mine too. I heard the 4th Gen XM-18's have much better detents, but they refuse to work on any older gen detent according to their website FAQ section
Great JOB Jim!
I carry my Direware daily, and was fortunate enough to get on his books for several of his knives, but I must say that if I had to pay secondary prices for a Direware I probably would.
As Jim says in this video, "this is just one man's opinion." I presently own a Hinderer as shown in the video (but a spearpoint blade). I was going to sell it and keep the Sebenza I just ordered. I received the large Sebenza 21 in the mail and I was ready to return it back to the seller after 5 minutes of taking it out of box. Nice knife, incredibly wimpy pocket clip compared to how the knife is built, could not justify the price. I returned it. But what having the Sebenza for a few minutes did, is make me realize just how well built my Hinderer is. I am keeping my Hinderer.
Safe and adjusted perfect along with the fit and finish. For the price paid.
I like your vids, you do a lot of large folders .. I am a large folder knife guy, I own most of them! My best edc is the Andre de villas Pit boss 2 .Thanks for your videos good job!
I totally agree with your comment at the end about the cheaper knives.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand what the appeal is in a folder that costs more than a hundred or so dollars. My Spydercos have been great to me, but what do I know??
You sound like you should be on the radio, first vid of yours I've seen, I like ur style
And this is exactly why I sold my XM-24. It would hardly flip after a few months of working it and it WOULD NOT deploy with the thumb stud because the detent was so ridiculous.
I miss the toolness of it, but I don't miss the knife.
Completely agree on the flipping aspect. One of the main reasons why I sold my 3.5, and the new logos bugged me.
True, I had forgotten the bigger difference in the 3.5" prices from the XM-18 to the F3. The 4" F3 is much closer in price to the XM-24
This is exactly the kind of "review" I needed for this knife. I personally don't think I could ever purchase a "safe queen" I dont find the point in purchasing a knife that I won't want to use, though I do understand collecting knives.I luckily will be able to purchase this knife at the retail price (military discount) and I plan on using it much the same way I do my current ZT0350, anything from cutting boxes to prying open windows and doors.
April 2017: Just ordered a spanto flipper 3.5" 20cv Hinderer. $425. Worth ever penny of that. Gen 4. Now is the time to get what you want. I wanted an SnG. Got one. Love it. But this Hinderer is better for best work. The SnG is light duty beast work. The XM18 is carve my name in your car hood beastwork!
Both of my XM-18 3.5" Slicers needed about a day and a half of break end to flip 100% of the time. I do have to load up to get them to flip still though.
Really great video. Very well thought out. And well said.
I just got my first Hinderer, an Eklipse model. For the money, I'm very pleased with it. I have found its much smoother and easier to flip that my friend's XM18. I think Jim hit the nail right on the head though, these knives are built to be used, and used hard. Sure, they look great too, but they're a hard use cutting tool. Period. As always, great video Jim. Keep em coming.
Great question. I had wondered that myself until I watched Greg Medford's video about why a Praetorian Ti costs double that the G and A models do. Just the bits they use for their titanium grooving cost a TON which is not an expense they have in the A of G models. Check out his vid, it's really good.
Great review and info, thank you Jim. Greetings from Norway!
No, but I have handled a couple. IMO it's a big difference. The ZT is a super high quality knife in it's own right, just not in the same league (nor should it be considering the price difference)
Good tip. Luckily, mine fell right into a nice groove for me. Short of somehow converting it to thrust bearings or IKBS, I wouldn't think it could get much better.
Thanks Jim, I really appreciate your insight. This makes total sense.
Yes I know this video is four years old and as such I'm not sure of the secondary market prices today I haven't taken the time to look but I had no problem finding my XM-18. I picked mine up at Monkey Edge for $425 (current factory market price) so with this being the case what's with all of the price gauging and why are people paying such high secondary market prices for XM-18's and XM-24's?
i nevee considered buying the xm18 3.5" until i went to a knife show. rick brought a ton if xm.s. i got mine for 385. cheaper than my first sebenza i recently got too. totally worth it. the ang and smf felt flimsy compared to the xm. this vid made me bust it out for use again. it did take some time breaking in. now she just falls closed and flips super easy. i think grailss go in steps. if your xollectuon is mainly knivea under a 100.00 then yes it can be a grail
Nice video. I have the XM 18 and 24. Love them and I agree totally with you. Great job.
OMG Jim you've made the most sense in any of your other videos! I think most the knives you rave about are ridiculous take the Bodega for instance. The openings in the blade, the seams in the handle, all dirt magnets. Once you opened the blade with the flipper, the noise it made, like Wolverine's craws. The way the blade snapped out and locked like a bank vault door. Oh yeah, I'm saving my pennies, I will have one.
Nice! Will is putting the finishing touches on a Mk6 for me right now, and when his next run of Mk12's are coming, he has me on his list for that as well.
I've had several XM-18's and XM-24's....I sold them all after getting to know Hinderer and Orlando better...bad experience. I wrote an article about it. I've got a couple of 0550's and am perfectly satisfied.
Great vid Jim! Any idea how much the custom Hinderer's go for directly from Rick? I see a custom XM-24 Wharncliffe in the Cove right now for just about $3k... O_O
I love your philosophy. All of my knives are users. I'm glad to see someone say this is not the best knife ever. Although the most expensive knife I own i a Cold Steel Rajah 2, $120, I use it all the time. One of my favorite EDC.
Great review. Thank you.
Would not pay extra to get into a party I am not invited though.
Factory price seems fair, but not the secondary market price.
Just my bit.
Cheers
I think I might get the ZT 560 as it is Kershaw's licensed copy of this knife and is very well made plus comes in under $300
I LOVE the fact you call it what it is a user!
I sold my XM-18's i purchased at 375 MSRP BTW ;) I charged 550 and didn't rip off anyone.
pennfootball71 Good job. Honesty is very rare these days.
The small 3" wharncliffe iteration of this knife is discontinued and has become a bit of a collectible. It's very difficult to find one, while the other models are now plentifully available on eBay. In light of this, it might make sense to buy a 3" WC as a collectible, rather than a user.
When i saw the cover to this video, i came to spend almost 30 minutes, such a beauti and such a nice blade. For the money this knifes blades pattern and design is world class.
For collected the same concept of cause cost more money, if the finish have to follow into 800 $, but with the same knife patterns design. Exactly that makes it for me simpel advanced blade and grip, and absolut world class that i like so much for this piece !
This knife i personal would like in professional total night black finish.
30 my minutes worth, nice video.
Your review of the Hinderer is spot on. That's why the ZT colabs will save RH's business. Strider is in the same boat.
Nice knife collection never seen anything like them
Fortunately today we have the Gen 6 which is the best one yet and you can easily find at Hinderer dealers at the standard factory price.
sailfish Agreed. Did my review on them just as they came out a few months ago.
I see where you're getting at Jim, but a grail knife is a grail knife, everybody has it's own 'needs to have it blades' for some it's a spyderco / Benchmade, for others a bodega, or a Sebenza..
i know i wanted a Lisa's pick after i got my first sebbie, and waited one the one i felt was calling to me, and in feb 2012 it happend.. that for me is a grail knife, and it still is, it's been in my posession ever since, same way with the XM's the first 3"beater i got second hand, i wanted to try one out, and it's in EDC rotation sinde 2011. not calling it a grail, but his 3.5" and 4"brothers i'm calling a grail knife, same as when i'm getting the 2nd gen 3.5" and the custom bowie i'm eyeballing ever since i layed my eyes upon it.. pfcorse with out it's logo's..
again i see where you're going, but a grail knife doesn't have to be flashy, with carbon fiber or with gold inlays or a full ti frame of with some freaky flamed titanium or timascus.. sure looks cool, but that doesn't define grail. and it shouldn't.. grail is for EVERYONE something else no matter what it's made from..
heck years back a halo V was a grail for me, now that's stupid!
I have owned a Hoback Kwaiback (fantastic), a Curtis F3, a Spyderco Military Titanium, and other great knives. In terms of comfort, build, practicality, I would have to say I prefer my Hinderer XM-24 over all of them. The Kwaiback is a $700 knife and for every day carry, I just did not want to beat it up. Not sure about other peoples' experience, but my Curtis F3 clip would often hang up on the hems in my pants pocket, did not like the location of the clip, a deal breaker for me. The Spyderco Military Titanium, great knife but the blade feels more like a precision scalpel to do surgery with, not a hard use blade. The Hinderer, if one is not addicted to sitting around flipping it all day, is built to be used and abused, super comfortable to hold, and the spearpoint blade is fantastic for me, being in Hawaii whacking open papayas, avocados and coconuts all day! We all have our preferences, I know. But I finally decided, do I want a fancy knife to look and flip while sitting at my desk or do I want a knife to use as a tool? I spent the $600 on the XM-24, and I am keeping it! By the way, it flips perfectly with just a small amount of wrist action added with the flipper.
got mine (XM-18) orange, today I love the feeling of the scales, anyway its my first one.
have to say i love my xm-24. i think the extra blade weight really helps it as a flipper. however i woupd never pay secondary market prices for one
Definitely agree! It'a a nice knife, but I would find it hard to pay secondary market prices and be able to justify my purchase and actually use it.
Forgot to mention that I did replace the Teflon washers with bronze phosphor washers, and it did help with the smoothness and improved the flipping action.
love your honesty Jim
Were people really paying $1k for production Hinderer XMs in 2013?
I'm surprised anyone would consider the XM a grail knife. I guess if you're coming from a Gerber it would seem like it. Production XM models are high quality, no doubt, and their fit and finish isn't anything to shake a stick at. But at $425 (what the XM-18s seem to average at retail today), you're either getting an incredible beater, a respectable show piece, or a compromise of both. If you want a grail knife from Hinderer, look at their customs, and be prepared to spend in the neighborhood of $1k+ (same as the rest).
That said, if you're looking for the perfect balance of quality materials and hardware, precision in craftsmanship, functional features, and ergonomic design, Hinderer is second to none.
+Charles Godewyn Yea it's hard to believe how much they were going for back then now that they're readily available at dealers for 425$... I'd be pretty choked if I got sucked into the hype and picked one up when they were at their peak on the secondary market. I'm definitely going to end up grabbing an XM18 or 24 at some point now that they're going for what they should be. Hopefully one of those full FDE versions if I can find one for the right price.
A big thing about these that kind of makes me happy is that some of the dick heads that bought them with the sole purpose of flipping them for ridiculous amounts of profit probably got stuck with theirs and lost money on them. I remember people thinking they could grab a couple even at a high price and sit on them to flip down the road, thinking they'd keep going up in price. Those guys definitely play a part in why the secondary market is so ridiculous these days. It seems like a bunch of them don't even care about or enjoy knives really anyways they have everything up for sale within days of receiving it... So fuck em!
Yup, i bought my xm-18 for 750 in 2011. Don't regret it though, has been beaten up and used on a daily basis. Bought another XM in 2016 ( at 425) and an mp-1 just 2 weeks ago
I totally agree with you Jim on this matter. I will take my Andre Thorburn L-51 any day for $800 any day and we all know how well they flip. I bought two of them to rotate.
It’s a good time to buy a Hinderer XM-18, since the new ones came out u can find the older gens for cheap. I just got one for 250
To me the production collector my grail knife would be the spiderco miltary sprint runs, that is a high quality knife, and for £200 you get something with crisper lines, superb desighn and s30v steel, by the way what steel does the hinderer use.
I was wondering, could you do a review on your Combative Edge M1 if you still have it? I've been looking into getting one and I really like how you review knives.
What do you think of the Medford Micro Praetorian G? I really love the look of it. I'm totally new to nice knives and I'd really like to get into a high quality, premium production edc blade.
a new knive must taste your flesh...then its really yours!!!
it's taken months since I dropped my (15oz) Kabar BK2 on my shin, and I still haven't recovered. So much blood. My only fix blade, really dig the design. The 1095 Cro-Van steel is super tough and holds its edge, but I keep it lightly covered with mineral oil to keep away rust, though keeping it dry is probably sufficient since it never gets over 35% humidity here in the San Francisco Bay Area. That said, I'd be VERY interested in this same exact knife, blade shape and all, in CPM-20CV, M390, or another more stainless "super" steel. Okay, this became a rant and rave about my BK2, but what an awesome knife that is under $90 and MADE IN THE USA! You have to excuse me, I'm totally rattling on here.
@@jshphysicistatyahoo thinking very similarly too you ! Maybe even a CPM-S110V or another 10V class - A11 class steel. I'd love the most edge retentive knifes known to man... idk how to feel about one in Maxamet or Rex-121 or something where the Rockwell is up around in that 67+ range.
@Jimmy Jim I really hope no one is duing something like that on purpose... that's Ridiculous and in all ways counter productive
@@ashmerch2558 edge retentive but hard as heck to sharpen I hear ...
great review Jim. I love the look of the XM-18, but I bought a ZT562CF at $350.00 CAD. I have a Hindered designed knife at a more affordable price.
@JIm Skelton - in the 6.5 years since you made this video, and the HInderer XM-24 having improved in model consistency, fit, finish, and this choice given by the tri-pivot system, has this knife possibly elevated from a "user's knife" to something more collectible? (Anyway, I'm of the opinion that when the knife features are more about fanciness than function, they become jewelry.)
Good points. Do you think a Medford Praetorian Ti is worth the $1200 price tag? I think its an amazing knife but totally out of my price range. I have a praetorian a on order
Thanks for the sub dude, much respect. My XM-18 should be here in about 2 weeks, I hope I love it... kinda hard to beat my Curtiss F3 though.
You will. Ive owned the large Sebenza 21. Traded for a new xm18 slicer and upgraded it. The Mx18 slicer is my favourite.
Jim, I don't always agree w/ you, be we are clearly on same page F3 is a solid carrier, like my Seb, Um, and three Striders. I really enjoy your work!
I appreciate the reply. No, of course they don;t have to tell you how to flip it, but then again... it shouldn't require any thought or different way to flip it. Pick up a Bodega, A Southard, almost any quality custom flipper... flick your finger across it and the blade should FLY open. The detent on the Hinderer does not allow for this, and the lack of bearings makes it even worse. There are BTW great flippers out there without bearings too.
I really like the design of the XM-24 and I think the factory price is justified but my ZT-0560 just simply in my price range. I admit I have a knife addiction and someday I just might get a Hinderer. For now, I'm very happy with my ZT birthday gift. :)
For a number of years, I wanted an XM-18. I ran across a used one on ebay...and ended up paying about $625 for it. That was at the top end of what I was willing to pay. And I've bought other knives for that money...that I consider to be every bit as good as an XM-18 (Kirby Lambert Justice, for example). Still, I love my Hinderer. Am super glad that I bought it? YES. Would I pay more for it? Yeah...another $25 and that's it. The prices are ridiculous for the Hinderers. So...I have one of those...and use similar money to buy other custom knives.
I'm pretty much with you on this one Jim. I've worked on my fair share of XM's over the years, and I can make one special, but from the factory... idk. Funny you mentioned Direware, I think I had the only green anodized Solo 2 out there, custom ordered it and waited for a year and a half... but getting it in hand, they're way too big for any practical carry use. Not a bad knife, just exaggerated proportions to the point where it lost all of its utility in my view.
Just got that knife earlier this week, and it is seriously solid. Very well worth the price (I got mine from Blade HQ).
Get skinner version it is much stronger detend and you can change the teflon washers with bronze washers ;)
There are actually Rick Hinderer knives in the Zero Tolerance brand too. They go for around $200-$300 depending on which one you get. And they are every bit as good as his customs. Look pretty much the same too.
Do you really think people watching this video don't already know about the ZT Hinderers? And if you think ZT's are as "good" as the "custom" Hinderers, you don't know much. There are 2 classes of Hinderers. Custom and production.
Good video my opinion is that the market determines the price. If it's 700 800 or 900 that is what it's value was at the time of sale.
With all the negative aspects of it, I believe I'm going with an XM-18 3.5 vintage, black dlc coating, smooth walnut . I am a forklift operator/Truck Driver for an agricultural company (maple syrup). Seems like the XM-18 3.5 or maybe the XM-24 vintage would be perfect for me, I enjoy sharpening (when needed) & stropping. Any ideas out there of possibly a better knife ? Or a competitive knife? Or even the "perfect" knife for me, please. By all means let me know, I'm all ears. .... (and love general knife talk)
The Tactility is a great knife actually, so good choice. Try to find a Katana as well. Hopefully you already have a Spyderco Manix 2? If not, add it to the list.
I've never owned a flipper. Do all flippers have to have a frame lock mechanism? Good upload!
No, you can have liner lock flippers also. Heck, you can probably have other lock mechanisms also (probably not a back-lock).
I wish you'd accept the free market. Please don't shame on people selling at the price they can get for it. The profit they left to be made would simply be made by the people who bought the knifes, adding more steps, overhead and time before it gets to the actual user. Just let it be, people make profits all the time, don't expect 'fair' just because the item is in an area that you deal in a lot. Good review, nice picture quality etc etc. I appreciate you sharing your opinion on these knifes - thanks!
Is that the Swiss ETA or Miyota movement on that Boschett?
Striders, customs, Curtiss. I love it so far. Surge is my favorite. I'd like to try a slicer. I love CRK, Strider and now Hinderer. Can't wait for my 3.25" El Patron, 3" Stout and the ZT 0801. That and the Spyderco Southard for the price, material and quality are an insane value. Productions toe the line with the "cookie cutter" feel. The three main mid tech guys do not. Too each their own. In the end I agree. A flipper needs to flip. Detent is a basic important part of any folder.
Sig took Rick's XM-18 and put the Legion symbol and coloring on it. Beautiful knife. They were selling for $500, but they just came out with a sale of $175 off of it. Yes I jumped, a nice companion to my Legion P226. No looking back at $325.
Jim: So now that H's are way down in price, mine was xm18 ($415.00), many people have last around $4-500? I was just waiting for Rick to increase production before I bought. At current retail, the knife is excellent buy for me. Thoughts!
If buy scoring a XM "as a tool" i feel productions got lots of options that will do the job as good, if not better. Is there reviews of high end hammers?
Just discovered you a few weeks ago. Really enjoy your videos. I got my 3" XM-18 brand new for $600. I felt the dealer was making a good profit without gouging. I can not stand dealers selling the same knife for $800-$900. With the "correct" technique, mine flips fairly well. I find it equivalent in use to a CRK or Strider. I do find the Hinderers a bit generic, where as the CRK's and Strider's seem to have more soul and win on the intangibles.