I am a one of those thousands of us out there. I’m a trout bum. I tie my own flies, maybe a dozen patterns that I fish regularly and am very successful with. I buy equipment on sale. It’s hard to justify a $600 pair of waders when I can get two for that and have a spare. My Old LLBean rod fishes as well as my Sage VXP(that I bought at close out) I’d rather spend my money on gas and multi state licenses. I fish 50-70 times a year. Been fly fishing for over 50 years. It’s never crossed my mind to say “boy if I could only have one of those $1000 rods, I’d do so much better”. Great video. Thank you
One of the best fly fisherman I know where's a old $50 pair of rubber hip waders. He said why should I pay $500 for chest waders when I don't ever wade past my knees.
Great comment Wingman I completely agree. I guided for two summers in MT and saw clients with everything. My favorite is when I’d throw the $300 rod in with their $1000 and they liked it more.
well I kept ripping the 100 200 dollars waders and I was like screw it Imma get G3s, going strong 3 years now with a lot of abuse. All situational. Maybe I just lucked out but if you fish out of a boat or park your ass in one spot for 5 hours, $50 pair will suffice. I haul ass through brush, tress and rocks putting on 5 miles an outing so Id probably go through 4 pairs a year of the cheap ones.
Stayed at the Slide Inn for a few days back in July 2017 and had a chance to talk with Kelly. I found him to be a very honest and upfront guy with a solid inside knowledge of the industry. Kelly, I am a disabled vet on a very small pension, and your thoughts and opinions on gear, fly tying, etc, are invaluable in helping me stay in the game. Thank you. Can't wait to come back to the Slide Inn someday!
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Sometimes it feels like I'm all alone out here with the common sense and logic - but you and the other people commenting here prove that there are still a few people out there who understand how things actually work in the real world.
One thing about Kelly it is a no BS explanation. God love him!!! I live in Cleveland and buy everything from him because he is just a normal guy. The guy is a legend and you would never know it talking to him. One great guy
I just watched a video of a well known shop owner n tyer who I used to rate up there with his friend Kelly...lol. well pampas was the word that repeatedly hit me in the face the whole time I watched him.. the things he said weren't wrong mind you.. but the way he said them pissed me off quite frankly.... thank god Kelly never does that... 😂 he did call a friend of his a lucky angler... n as he described why he made me think of Kelly... he described the guy always cast to slack water n pulled huge fish... well isn't that what Kelly's preached for years..lol. tells me how he fishes...
For a very long time, fly fishing was an elite sport, available primarily to people within a certain level of disposable income - that's still true, in many cases, but it's no longer exclusive. My first fly rod was a Fenwick paired with a Medalist reel back in the late '60s, when I was in my early teens (and even that was a stretch for my lawn-mowing revenue) and that rig caught me an enormous number of fish. More importantly, it made it necessary for me to concentrate on my skills, rather than depend on the quality of my equipment to compensate for any lack. In the subsequent years, I've been able to upgrade significantly, and have even been able to take Orvis up on their warranty when I broke the tip of my three-weight fighting an unexpectedly robust largemouth bass. Nobody needs a thousand-dollar rod, just as no one needs to be able to make a 100-foot presentation - but it's nice if you can. I think, usually, the same holds true for reels - the vast majority of fishermen will be satisfied with the performance of a well-built mid-priced reel and never feel the need for anything more - until you're getting into really big fish in salt water, a lot of the features of a high-end reel are superfluous to your average week-end warrior fisherman. What made companies like Orvis and Abercrombie & Fitch and the like so successful was not necessarily the quality of the equipment or the backing of the company with their warranties, but the implied status that owning one of their rods could convey - and that's still true today. Very often, those high-priced rods and reels are sold not because of what they can do, but because of the message they convey to other fishermen. I doubt that many of us could make a cogent argument regarding the specific formula that goes into determining the taper from butt to tip of one brand vs another, or even that it's especially meaningful - if you cast with a rod for a sufficient amount of time, eventually you will teach yourself how to get the most out of any brand. Arguably, there may be some actual value in having an onyx stripping guide and a reel seat made of walnut burl or tiger maple, but I think for most people the value is more often based on ego, rather than performance. Thanks for an honest opinion from someone who actually has the credibility of experience.
The $1000 rods w lifetime warranties are really $400 rods with a $600 insurance policy. I’ve built a few rods and beat the hell out of the 6wt and it’s still going strong. Also, the real expensive rods tout being super fast (most of them), and I prefer a med fast. They’re easier to cast, more versatile, and I don’t need to cast 70’.
By built you mean you purchased a premade blank and added components to it, right? Or did you find raw carbon, rolled it, added the resins, cooked it, added more components, tested it, and then did it all over again until you got that good rod?
@@GlitchMan1011 the construction of a blank is extremely expensive endeavor. It's like expecting a guy that built his engine to mean he forged then machined the block....
This comment is the truth. The only part that's inaccurate is the number. The $1000 rod is a $100 build at most with a $900 insurance policy. Additionally the massive margins on rods is to cover lower margins on other items they sell. My experience is from working in a rod shop and now owning one myself.
My best rod is a 5 weight build kit from Cablas. I put it all together 20 years ago. I use a cheap reel. Thousands of trout later ,I still love it. My favourite rod now though is a starter rod :a 12’ tenkara rod. Give me a small river with pockets and it rules. Even better with an upstream breeze. Nails it.
In the past 5 years or so I've switched over to all USA made rods and reels. Not because they're better, but because I want to support US manufacturing and US workers. The last generation of Orvis Recon was $429, which i thought was totally reasonable for a US made rod. It's getting a little bit out of control now though. $1200 for a new Winston is crazy.
Want to support US manufacturing then support U.S. unions. U.S. manufacturing died when US unions were destroyed by corporate bourgeois. Support unions, not just any U.S. manufactured business. That’s just ignorant.
Although a noble thought. What your really supporting is America's capitalistic ideology. Where that ideology is now about making as much profit as possible. This intern screws us the consumer. If you find and support smaller American companies is a good way of supporting American workers, as these companies are more focused on getting their product out there. I've started buying Echo rods. Great bang for their buck.
Thank you for being so honest about this, there’s not that many people in the flyfishing world willing to tell the truth about this!Besides, it makes poor folk like me feel better about my extremely awesome $200 rod! Thanks for your channel Kelly and gang!
Good video. I agree. Technology has improved the quality of mid priced rods (from those in the past). Careful selection will give you years of good service. Past two seasons, I’ve been using an Australian $500 rod and I can’t see much difference from premium rods I have.
My 3rd rod I ever bought was an echo, and I fell in love with them. I have done guided trips and used their expensive orvis rods and sage. But honestly, i love the value and how Echo rods cast. I mean, you know darn well, there is a insane markup value on all these other rods. Thanks for talking about this.
I like what you said in this talk. I was a guide in an Orvis shop and all my rods were Orvis. Make no mistake, they are great rods but, my favorites are the ones I built myself. It can be very expensive in components but the joy of fishing a rod you built is immeasurable.
I really like this perspective. Working in a fly shop I frequently see people coming in looking at the $200 - $400 rods and questioning their quality compared to the $800 and above rods we carry. I have many conversations with customers along these lines. I've sold many Redingtons and Echos (both of which I own and fish) and they come back and say how much they like them. I personally own a couple of Sages and St. Croix and really like them as well. Like Wingman describes, below, they then have left over money to invest in other items. Good review, Kelly!
Well said, Kelly. I have a smaller budget than some of my fishing buddies and I have gone the "value" route many times with my rods. I am a BIG fan of TFO for several reasons, I have an Axiom 2X 7wt I like for throwing streamers. One of my more monied friends had bought a brand new Sage X, and we fished together a couple weeks later. We traded rods for half the day and in the beginning I was preparing myself to figure out how to save and budget for my own X. But after fishing it for half a day, I didn't need it. It is a fine rod, but I didn't like it any better than what I already have... not as much, to be honest. Maybe the cork is a bit nicer. That's about all I could come up with. Lower cost rods are certainly worth it and likely every bit as good as the flagship rods form other bigger manufacturers.
Great Video and I completely agree. I began my guiding experience back in the early 90s and had all Loomis Rods back than a 600 dollar to 800 dollar rod was high end Graphite and Loomis was what I guided with and what I fished with myself. I was even taught how to Double haul at a clinic by Steve Rajeff who was repping Loomis at a Fly Shop I worked out of In Twin Falls Idaho. I swore by Loomis rods my favorite was a 4WT GLX Loomis 8 foot 6 Inch which I literally slayed any fish I saw in Silver Creek without even trying. This was do partially because I was getting pro deals on rods through Loomis but also because they were exceptional rods. Inevitably all good things come to an end just like trout season in the PNW. I switched to Silver Creek Outfitters by the late 90s and so did my flyrod pro deals. I fished Sage for years as part of my pro deals and quickly left my loomis devotion for a quiver of Sage Rods for trout and Steelhead. I quickly changed my loyalty and, started fishing the Sage XP's fast action guns for Silver Creek Browns and Rainbows. Again swearing by these new rods to be the bees knees for all your flyfishing needs. Today I continue as a Flyfishing guide but see the reality of the industry for what it is an over priced exercise of hype and commercialization. I have seen some beautiful handmade cane rods in my career that justify their cost based on craftsmanship and their uniqueness. I fished with Jack Hemingway before his passing and have guided and fished with numerous other legends over the years some of which carried and fished with rods worth as much as the truck I drove. I currently am sponsored by #TFO #TempleForksOutfitters rods and frankly find a complete and utter satisfaction in their quality and cast ability. Not to mention that the price tag is more like 1990s Fly rods thus a reasonable option for a guy living on a guides salary. I am actually smitten , did I really use smitten to describe my Flyrod haha. #TFO's quality and castability in their high speed rods gives me no regrets for the moderate investment. I spend my summers up north chasing trout steelhead and salmon guiding with #TFO rods and my winters in Baja Mexico Chasing toothy monsters with #TFO. All my years of experience have taught me alot one of the truths is "There are a 1000 paths to get there you just need to pick the one that works for you " this includes FlyFishing Gear.
I used a Tfo 5 weight for ten years loved it caught lots of fish . Gave it to my son now he's on his journey fishing loving the rod I use a scott flex now . Thanks for the videos enjoy watching them!!
Bought a 10' 7wt. Moonshine Drifter, paired it with a Lamson Remix and I have made it my go-to combo for pretty much every situation here in Northern CA. Steelhead, trout, shad, whatever. I'm no expert, but my buddy has noticed a definite improvement in my casting and mending, and this rod makes it easy. I can't justify spending close to $1000 on a rod I'd be nervous about breaking. Beautiful chocolate brown color, a great warranty and comes with an extra tip section. Just $200.
Pick up an H3D. You’ll know just by how light it is. $1009.98 is crazy though. Amazing rod. Got a 2 for the price of one right before they jumped from 999.98 to 1009.98. Also have a bunch of Winston and sage. My two boat rods are echo’s though.
There are two ways to get an expensive suit. You can get a hand made one from Savile Row in London, England, or you can get a crap suit made in the east with a famous label on it. Expensive rods are the latter. I have been building my own rods since the mid 70s. I have a different take on every single feature of the rod, and the objective is fit, comfort and performance. I just have myself to please. I have my own grip design, which is the Fenwick grip morphed with the Charles Ritz grip. And I prefer, usually large, non-ceramic guide on my gunning rods. That is an example of a fairly huge performance gap because while I could replace a guide in a few minutes, they have to use ceramic guides on rods used by average users who may be using gritty lines. These are real custom rods, not just a contrasting color of cork inserted in a handle, like a high school woodworking project. But they are hyper customized, the concepts could work for anyone, but they are evolved to suit me.
Companies took the high dollar up front and reneged on the warranty after. I'll name names here. St. Croix and Shimano. I had a $400+ legend elite de-laminate and Croix asked "when did you buy it?" I asked why does that matter, it has a lifetime warranty? They said we changed it to a 15 year policy X number of years ago. That's none of my concern, I paid 20x what it cost them to build that rod for the full warranty. I bought 18 Shimano Talora trolling rods to outfit my boat because they had full lifetime warranties. They are nice, but priced about twice their worth. I broke a downrigger rod on the strike in the holder. I tried a warranty claim and they said those rods now nave a 1 year warranty! I said they have a lifetime warranty, they countered with "If you have your receipt, they are still lifetime warranty." Who the hell keeps a receipt for a lifetime rod? (much less 18 of them) I looked at the product label on the blank and determined that they changed it when they went to a 1 year warranty. So they knew what rods were covered and what rods were not. I worked in sporting retail over half of my adult life. I know how things work. They are are just strokin' people because they can. If you pay the big bucks, you should get the big buck service.
Thank you. I have been fly fishing for over 50 years and I do not own a 1000 dollar rod or even close to that price. I have caught a lot of fish over that time period. I am able to take the money I save and take some nice fishing trips. Some people (so called pros) need to spend more time and actually learn how to use the expensive rods. Thanks again.
I started fly fishing when I was 9 years old. I saved up my allowance, and bought a $6.00 rod off the clearance rack at Clarkin’s in Kent Ohio. A $4.00 reel and some level line. I used 6lb test mono to make my leader/tippet. I used that flyrod setup until I was a SGT in the Army. It caught Bass, Bluegill, big Northern Pike in Michigan, Trout and Land Locked Salmon in Maine, and I can even recount all of the other fish and states! I never knew there was anything better. Today, I swing a Sage XP that I bought used at the local fly shop. It isn’t about money.
All of the carbon blanks are made overseas, as is 90% of the materials used for rod building and fly tying. Matter of economies. We pay $1 for a fly that cost less than $0.05 to make over there. I built custom rods for Kahn Smith and was one of the first tyers for Rainy's Flies back in the 80s. TFO was started in my home town, as was Leigh Outdoors. I now work in a different industry where I see the same supply chains. "American Made" means "American Assembled".
Thanks for being so straightforward and honest about the industry. I agree 100% if I like a rod I like a rod and it doesn't matter what the price tag is.
I bought a Echo Lift 9ft #5 as my backup rod to my Orvis Recon and it became one of my favorites as well. For the money it's dumbfounding to me to buy a more expensive rod for someone just starting out or wanting a great backup. It performs every bit as good as my Orvis does.
A few years ago I decided that I would invest in a planing form, some Stanley 9 1/2 planes, some bamboo culms, and the duct pipes and heat gun to build a heat treating oven, and I’ve since made about 30 bamboo rods. Total cost of the tools and form was about that of one high end graphite rod. Some of my rods may show a few glue lines or may be a few thousandths of an inch off some taper dimensions but they all have been good fishing tools and it’s been a ton of fun. Trust me, it’s not brain surgery and you can do almost all the work without a bunch of fancy tools like mechanical planers, binders, rod wrappers etc. Lots of folks make their own graphite rods from blanks and components. Just a thought.
My first fly rod was an old Fenwick fiberglass 5wt I bought from my neighbor for $35 about 30 years ago. Lots of dollars spent on lots of premium fly rods since (Winston, T&T, Scott), but I still enjoy bringing out the old Fenwick. I sometimes think I should have just stuck with the Fenwick, and invested all that other rod money in the stock market. Could now take that pricey Alaska fishing trip I’ve always dreamed about.
Well said Kelly,always keeping it reel.I think you have said out loud what many have been dying to get off their backs for years.I have many top end rods purchased between 1994 - 2015.I love them and i bought them because they were "affordable".When top end rods reached the $700 price point i quit buying them.Ive done a deep dive into Sage's warranty program.There are countless complaints about warranty repairs with them most people now waiting for between 4 (if you lucky) mnths and 10 mnths.Thats not worth a $1000!!
Totally agree that the warranty started pushing the prices. Like you said, they have to basically price in the potential of a replacement. Twice I have broken an old Orvis Silver label and received a brand new rod of a current release. I even think that part of the reason that they have the Clearwater series is to not only have a lower entry point rod, but they needed something to replace these older rods under warranty.
Total sense all the way through. Told as it is. I've seen another video where a couple of guys blind tested 8-10 rods, from low-end to high-end. As I recall, both testers opted for the second cheapest rod!
I picked up the Echo Traverse set up after hearing Kelly's recamendation of the rod and reel and line. All of which are superb. I was still pleasantly surprised by what a nice set up it is . Thanks for cluing me into this set up.
I am still fishing with the Eagle Claw graphite rod that I fished with Kelly on the Boardman River in the mid 70's while we were still in High School. 5:18
I love my Eagle Claw glass 5/6. I think they cost about 25$ now a days. I’ve had plenty of mid tier, low tier, and a few higher end stuff, but ultimately I always feel gravitated to go back to glass. Super durable, fun to fish, and usually cheap as heck. On that note; I sent back a redington butter stick this past year. It was my fault it broke, but man the warranty took every bit of 4 months to complete. Broke in July and I didn’t see it until November. Just food for thought.
Amen!! Too much status in fly fishing, especially with beginners!! They have every piece of the latest equipment. Learn the basics and you can catch as many fish with a $200 rod vs. $1000.
Most of my working history has been primarily seasonal forestry or state park jobs (tight funds most of the time) but about two years ago I got a full time pretty good paying job for an ecological mitigation company, so all of a sudden I had funds for things I've always seen in those little orvis booklets and wanted but couldn't afford in the past, so I started goin nuts, bought every fancy expensive rod, reel, and fishing pack I saw. After about three years of that I'm right back to my Fenwick combo set up, and a good ole backpack, it cracks me up. Guess ya never know until ya try it but wooo boy, I sure could have saved some bucks by sticking to what I like, simple stuff. At least my buddies kids got some fancy stuff over the last few Christmas's haha. Your the man Kelly, thank you for the video
It's difficult to try out lots of rods, especially one that is matched with the proper line! It's a lot like guns matched with the right optics. How many people actually try out several hunting rifles, of varying price points, prior to buying? Or better yet buy a higher dollar rifle and cheap out on a sub par scope.
You are right if you find a Radja like use it if it cost $100 or a cost 1000 and you feel comfortable casting it you should use it but there’s one problem you got a set it up with the right line weight to balance the rod, and most importantly, to deliver the fly you need the right leader you put all three of those things together and you have the right rod for the right situation presenting the rights fly in the right place.Fishin’Jimmy
Ever since I started getting into fly fishing, Mr. Galloup has been my favorite fly tier to watch and learn from. I agree with him 100% on this subject. Especially nowadays, I don't have much money to spend on hobbies. I own two fly rods currently, one my parents bought me as a Christmas gift, and one I bought myself. My parents bought me a close to $300, 9' rod, came with a reel and line and it performs beautifully for me whenever I have the space to use it. It has caught me many fish, and I can fish any fly I have on it. It casts and performs perfectly for what I need it to do. The rod that I bought for myself cost me about $90 on Amazon, 6'7", came with a reel and line and performs for me just as beautifully as the $300 rod. I'm more limited in the fly size I can fish with it, as it is a much lighter weight rod, but that was what I wanted out of it. I've caught just as many fish on it as I have the more expensive and heavier rod. I live in an area with lots brush and small streams/rivers, so a shorter rod works well for me in a lot of places, but the longer rod works just as well in some places. There were heavier rods that could fish heavier flies in the same price range, but they were longer and would defeat the purpose of me looking for a shorter rod. Just as Mr. Galloup said here, it's not the price of the rod that matters, it's how the rod works for you. A stick with a line and a hook tied to it can catch a fish.
I'm an old Northern Pike fisherman from Wisconsin and always used St. Croix rods for pike. I almost exclusively fish smallmouth now and I have two $350 St. Croix 7 weights and 2 Sage Spectrum 7/8 reels and couldn't be happier.
I've fly fished for 65 years, both trout and bass. Kelly made mention of a pet peeve of mine. The so-called starter rod. A rod is either fishable or it isn't. My favorite 8wt for popper bugs cost $80. It casts beautifully. My old IM-6 Fenwick has caught so many trout it's scary. The big thing with those rods is that I can make any cast with either one. The rods I don't like are the fast action biffo-stiffos. Even the low end graphite rods, to me, are better than any glass we could get in the old days.
I agree with you sir. My original heddon glass 5wt 6.5 ft got broken in a move so i jad to replace it. I bbought a cabelas Korea made 6ft 5wt graphite and it is a fine rod imo. I put a $30 wf cortland on it and fished the hell out of it. A $99 rod, 20 reel, and the 30 line. I did decide to get a lighter outfit so i bought a TFO 6ft 2wt and put a 20 reel on it with 30 or 40 dollar line cortland or sa. Ican cast it 50 or 60 ft if needed with a 6lb straight mono leader. I think i did spend about 150 for this rod ant i have fished it for at least 6yr. I am a warmwater guy. I also have a bevy of short light glass rods. I have a 9ft Diawa that is labeled as a 9wt. It does not cast well with a 9wt line. I might do well with a 10wt line but i dont have one to try. This rod wad one Diawas first trys in graphite in about 197
My favorite way to buy high-dollar rods is on closeout. Like most things today, fly rods have hit the point of diminishing returns. Last year's $600 rod can be bought for half off if you're just patient. When it comes to designing rods, Tim Rajeff (who owns Echo) is the real deal (that's who designed the rod Kelly is referring to in this video). A while back I cast an Echo Carbon XL paired with Rio Perception, and I was stunned by how well it casts. In my view, the more expensive rods (I own a pair of Douglas SKY G's) is they are lighter in the hand. I do find it easier to be more precise with the SKY G than with any of my less-than-high-dollar rods, but not by a lot.
Thanks for the video Kelley. I just wished you would have posted it 3 years ago before I let expensive rod envy get the best of me. Funny thing about that is my first rod was a Echo carbon XL that I still have and love. It fishes just as good, and in certain areas better, than the 1k rod I have in the same length and weight. Happy with both but personally I will not buy another 1k rod at retail again. Love your straight forward content and can’t wait for the next one.
Perfect points. This advice carry’s over to nearly everything I buy. I’ll pay extra for a craftsman, I’ll pay extra for American made, I’d even pay extra for personalization or custom. I will never pay extra for prestige, a name or trend.
So true! I have $300-$600 rods. I also have a $1000 rods. They are all good. Price isn't important. It's what gets the job done, it's what you like. And yes the lower priced rods do have better quicker warranty. Meaning less hassle.
Great explanation and my thoughts exactly! About 20 years ago ( when I only had a $100 rod) My friends and I were in a fly shop and a customer said “I only fish with Winston” 😂 🤢🤮Some people just want the prestige. To this day we still bring that comment up because we have always thought our now, $200 rod will get the job done. My most and LAST expensive rod of $450 just broke, won’t buy another one!
I have both, fishing is my passion, I want to enjoy all ranges, I love Spinning too. My greatest joy of fishing is being out on the water all day and just waving a stick, going to where trout live, catching Big and small, seeing if where I placed my fly/lure in the right spot.
When I started fly fishing 6 or so years ago I bought five rods from St. Croix and reels from Aspen " San Diego California " all USA made and still working great all for under $1300
I've built a couple of rods on North Fork Composites Iconoglass blanks. Pretty impressive performance and when on sale at $75 for a U.S. made Gary Loomis designed blank I don't think you could find a better deal. Other than that I'm fishing mostly old fiberglass Fenwicks, Phillipsons and even my old SA system 7 I got for my high school graduation. I like rods that bend. The only graphite I use anymore are 8 & 9 wts. I think you nailed the issue. Get a rod you can cast well and go with it. 100' away no one can tell what you're using anyway. They can, however, tell if you can cast or not.
Bravo for this piece. Reminds me a lot of the snobbery around road and mountain bikes, which have become exponentially more expensive as people with too much disposable income become more involved in the sport. As a retired road racer and lifelong fly fisherman, I have seen a lot of this sort of "my equipment cost more than yours" business creep into both sports. Of course what actually matters is how quickly you can get up the road on a bike, or how well your equipment performs when actually fishing. Years ago I met famed fly fishing author Charles Brooks and his wife while fishing on the upper Yellowstone. Charles was fishing with a glass rod and a big nymph, catching and releasing big cutthroats where others were drawing blanks. Watching him fish was poetry in motion, but there was no single element of his equipment that could not be obtained for a reasonable price at any fly shop. What mattered was that every single element of his technique was perfectly matched to those fish in that section of the river.
@@thewetfly9207 awesome post. I still have his nymphing book. I rebuild vintage road and mountain bikes , many of them I salvage for free , and they're awesome. A guy gave me a Tomassini Prestige . But I ride my lowly Moto Mirage daily for training. Been riding 50 years , flyrod since 1985. I ride up to the Farmington now with a BOB trailer. (used, 100 bucks) 30 miles each way. And camp. The looks and comments I get. I have a couple cool glass rods too.
I'm looking at my $1,000 rods saying yes they're way overpriced but I still love them. Once you get over $500 idk I can really tell much difference my Sage Sonic is nearly as identical as my T&T Avantt in my hands.
My first rod s Heddon 7wt 8' fiberglass PAL got me Warm and Coldwater bass Pike trout and salmon until I broke bottom female ferrule, fixed it , but also bought another Berkeley 6wt. 7'-6" "Gray" model rod as backup and fell in love with it, especially in skinny waters, casting feel and finesse on my Heddon 320 reel that I wore out the reel seet screws , repaired multiple times but perfect line holder. I'm no legend but I am told I am guide worthy and then I started guiding. I got a 7/8 weight new reel on same old rods catching 20-30" fish hasn't broke my rods yet . I am going strong catching on the largest streamers on wf 7 s tip line and a new 9' four piece rod and a new 5 wt reel on my old rods and all I do is learn, adjust, practice and get fine tuned . I love nymphs and streamers . I think your sculpins especially are great. I fish for bigs test my deliveries with articulateds and nyphd for numbers of trout for fun and eat the avg fish... I started focusing on more patterns to make it interesting. I like naturals more.. But honestly a peasant tail flashback, stronefly, match whatever is under the rocks, and big articulateds are tightening my line. I have found I am not missing expensive gear but all my costs is in flies testing replenishing what works best . Sir learning your casting techniques rod control tip movements strip discipline is most important thing I have yet to hear in your details in years. You are a master angler from my respect my friend sharing deep insights of value. We are a closed lip group most of us men. You are a find among videos. God bless your Business and fishing.
yes i agree... the 1000$ ones i think its best to spend that on custom like he said...not a mass made ones... i think the mass made ones should be priced 500 imo...
After tests severely fly rods dedicated to streamer fishing . I tried rods from 300.00 to over 900.00 . The best casting rod I ended up purchasing was a Echo Streamer X very affordable and better than any rod I tried . I own Winston , Thomas and Thomas and Scott …. This one out preformed all of them .
My first fly rod was a Pfluger Summit I bought at Kittery Trading Post, in Maine, for $50. A co-worker told me about Orvis for $300 at the time… Warranty he said. I broke my Pfluger by falling… KTP replaced it. Unbelievable!
Seriously brave video but love the message. I've had my eye on some very expensive rods but your story about grabbing the kit rod and it becoming your go-to made me rethink the purchase for another day. My $120 rod has delivered every fly I've asked it to and has never let me down. My $1,000 rod purchase will be a reward to myself at some point in time. For now, my collection of rods will suit me just fine. Enjoy the straight forward discussion.
Over 35 years of fly fishing, I accumulated 25 rods of various makes. Most are from Winston, Sage, and Scott. I bought many of them at a steep discount when a manufacturer discountinued a line of rods ( e.g. Winston Boron IIIx ) or they were lightly used demo rods. Each rod has its own character and transmits a different experience to my hand while casting it or playing a fish with it. Some rods have a longer reach, which helps while nymphing. Others do better in windy situations. ( One of my favorites for the Madison is a 25+ year old Sage, which I got in Fort Smith on a particularly windy day. ) Still others are better suited for small streams. While some rods may help you catch all the fish you want, the right rod for the situation can make for a much better experience-whatever the make or cost.
The entry level rods are often some of the best feeling rods. Huge sweet spot for loading, super easy to cast. Usually yeah super rough reel seat. Not the greatest guides, not much style, etc. Any good fly angler can pick up a quality entry level rod and they will probably be impressed by its castabilty. I own a winston boron 3. It is my favorite rod... number 2 is the Orvis encounter.
A couple years ago, I accidently left my rod at home in a rush to get to the river. So, I went to the local big box "Sportsman" stores that was near the river. I ended up getting a $150 Redington 6wt rod to fish that day. Guess what? I ended up liking it more than my $500 Winston (the slower action was more to my liking/casting style). That rod is now my go to and my "nice" rod stays at home. I can hand it to my kid, or one of his buddies and not worry about it. 🤣
My favorite trout rod is a Sage VXP 4 wt. I think the thing was originally in the $550 price range, but I found it on a closeout for half that. It is a medium fast rod that for trout, that I prefer. A favorite salmon rod is a BVK 8 wt, another $250 purchase. So, I'll testify that one does not have to spend high bucks to get good equipment. That said, I love my Sage Method. What is there about the rod that enamors me so? Effortless casting, weight, finish, and the cork handle is a thing of beauty. It is a fast rod that can cast long. This feature, by the way, as far as I'm concerned, is only an issue if you are fishing salt. It is light, this feature also comes into play when your double-hauling all day long.
Interesting. I just came back from a vacation that took us through the National Parks in Colorado, South Dakota, and Wyoming. I went into maybe 8 different fly shops on the way, looking for info on the fishing in each area. All of them were proudly displaying rods that cost between $3,000 and $6,000. Yes, there were lower priced rods available like Echo, but these were not out front. Add to this the high cost reels, line, waders, boots, etc. they were selling and all of what you are saying makes sense. I'll keep my St. Croix rod and Bass Pro reel continue to cast tight loops that are spot on, and count my blessings.
The status factor and prestige factor I think is what makes the difference here. Many have to have that expensive rod or reel to flex. I love my Echo Bases and have been happy fooling Ranch fish with them! :D
Thanks for this perspective. Speaking as a “regular guy“ I really appreciate this. I’m retired. I don’t have $1000 to swing out a fishing rod. And it appears I don’t need to either. Thank you.
Great video, one thing I bought several tfo rods years ago when they were advertised as having lifetime no fault warranties only to find out they no longer do. Still agree they are good for the price and you can buy the sections to replace that broke but still thought they should honor what they advertised when I bought them.
The swing weight is everything! I can say cheap rods break faster,expensive rods survive hooks in the bush better than the cheap ones. Amdrican rod action has been copyied in many foreign brands,but they feel heavier than american high end brands to me that is. I want nrx! Light and POWER vs cheaper rods.
I agree to what you’re saying to an extent. The smaller rods (3-8wt) there isn’t much difference in the less vs the pricier rods, however when you get into the larger (9-12wt) rods I think there’s a lot of difference in them. I personally own both and the larger pricier ones are much better than the less expensive ones.
I have a near $1000 Sage that I got because I became a Trout Unlimited Life Member. It is nice, but no where near as good as my Grigg Custom Made brand (no longer made) or my Okumas, both at about $50 each. PT Barnum was right then and is still right today. Great vid!!!!!!!!
I'm in the UK and have been a fluff chucker for 40 years. I started out in the mid 80's wih the old carbon rods, I've had Ryobi, Diawa, Orvis, Greys, Loop and now i have a couple of custom made AtomSix. The Orvis i had 2 of, both 10ft boat rods, they were £250ish each in the mid 90's, now i suspect they'd be a lot more. I bought a Loop 7X second hand and i had that roughly a year until i found AtomSix, had a few casts with it and fell in love with them, half the price of the Loop, British built, customised to my specs and the maker is a Veteran like me, hopefully it'll last me a lifetime. Apparently the blanks are American. I've heard that the likes of Orvis, Scott, TFO etc now have their blanks manufactured in Korea or China, shipped to the US and assembled there.
I remember when I got into the fly fishing world many years ago, I started with a inexpensive combo. I told myself, I’d never buy a $1000 rod. Over my travels and encounters with fish, I’ve learned one beautiful and universal truth, buy once. After dealing with stiff blanks and bad craftsmanship, I bought my first 1k rod. Winston Rods is hands down the best maker in the industry, I’ve casted almost every rod out there. I’ve had my one for almost 4 years and fish it 300 days a year and it shows minimal wear. Quality is key!
I've had loomis, Sage, Zpey, Orvis, Winston, Loop, Guideline, T & T over the years and loads of others. I recently cast a Scott Centric the other day and it was something else.
I would say that I love my Winston’s. Beautiful colors, casting and just handling them. I also have some Echo’s that are superb. RLW gets a good penny for their wares. Echo is just awesome and not just awesome for the price but just plain awesome. The finish isn’t as pristine but I enjoy them Very much. If you can afford and want a high dollar rod, buy it! If not, you’re really not missing that much when you spend $400-$500.
Great video, I fell in love with fly fishing as a kid growing up in the South Bronx. Outdoor life had a tv show that they aired during the 80's and I would glue myself to the floor watching every show that I could. During the 80's I was told that a " ok " fly rod would run me at lease $150.00 to $200.00 dollars (that was tough for a kid living in the Bronx and again this was in the 80's) that left me with the Wal mart Roland Martin fly kits. It wasn't until the mid 1990's that I was introduce into Temple Fork Rods at a fly-fishing show in Marlboro Massachusetts. They didn't even have a fully run web site back then. the 1st rod I tried was their 6wt rod, I loved it and purchased it for $79.00 dollars, The following year I purchased their 9wt, again for $79.00 dollars. Both rods could be sent back for repair for a $25.00 dollar warranty charge. I still fish both those rods to this very day. Outside of the 3pc. Avid St Croix 10 wt. that I won in a raffle I mostly fish with these Temple Fork rods and LOVE THEM!!!
I think Kelly said it very clear.....ENJOY what you have.....it's truly about the time out in or on the waters enjoying fly fishing. It's not what you spend that brings the enjoyment. Don't ruin you enjoyment by putting artificial label's on it. My Dad loved fly fishing more than any thing else and it wasn't because he could by the most expensive rod or reel....price had nothing to do with the experience, he believed in his Fenwick rods and found profound pleasure in using and caring for them. Take Care and God Bless
I’ve got white river flash up from Cabela’s. I’m three years into the game. I just bought an Orvis encounter that has an arrived yet, so that’s my first “expensive” rod at $200. I know I don’t know anything but I can definitely tell you as a rookie was only a few years under his belt the cheap gear I have cost me less than one $1000 rod. And I have a great time every time I get to go out and I’ve caught a fish every time. At least one. So that’s not too bad
Before I buy I rod I work it as if casting it to see if the action is smooth and matches the rating. This keeps me from making expensive mistakes! I’ve worn out several rods, most under $100. Caught tons of fish on them with no regrets!
Definitely can make up for a lot of things with decent proper line. I think that's the thing that a lot of the combos are doing better these days. Back in the day you could get good performance off a "cheap" combo if you swapped out the line. The line game is crazy right now too, but if you're gonna throw a few extra bucks at something id take line over rod any day. You want to breathe some life into a "low end' old stick try it out and you won't be disappointed.
Hi,I'm from the UK. Here we had a very well respected fly fisher & rod builder who lived near me called Steve Parton of spartan tackle. He always maintained these high end priced rods were absolute BS. All the blanks came from a few small suppliers. This didn't sit well with the sages, hardys In the uk. Kelly, thankyou for having the balls to point this out. All the very best to you. 👍
Granddad handed me an old South Bend bamboo in 1950 when I was 10, and I've been stirring the air ever since, and I turn 79 tomorrow. I have quite a number of rods, some cheap, and some that would be expensive today. My introduction to the better rods was in the 80s, when I encountered a source for Sage's "blemished" blanks at a very attractive price. I didn't care much how they looked, so here I went - although most of the "blemishes" were hard to find and some I never found. I probably built 20 for myself and friends; break one, strip off the furniture and order another blank. The first round was a matched set - 2,4,6,8 weights, with matched Battenkill reels. I could switch weights and not even notice. (Sage stopped that after a couple of years) Every rod I have except one, I built for myself. In more recent years I have become involved in bamboo and a veterans FF group. As I had the opportunity to cast a wide variety of rods, I found it simply does not matter; I seem to be able to cast anything. some feel marginally better, but I can still cast the others just as far and as accurately. I don't know how common this trait is, and I don't know how I do it, it just happens. The most expensive rod I ever cast was a Leonard, valued at $8,000, the value due more to its provenance than the maker; th eprevious owner had been a very famous white-haired flyfishing pioneer. Frankly, I was not impressed with the rod. Bottom line, Kelly, is I agree with you. Price has nothing to do with anything, except maybe ego, and I don't have much........I just fish. And the damn fish don't care. Every rod I have except one, I built for myself.
Decades ago, Fly Fisherman mag did a rod test “blind” with all the recognized casting experts of the day. The had multiple criteria to score and making a long story short, a very cheap Berkley ended up being the best rod for the money. The casters had no knowledge of what each rod cost and rated them solely on performance. When thos results were then assessed in relation to cost, there was no question which was the best bang for the buck. I’ve never bought a high dollar rod for lower 48 trout because of that. It’s amazing how little the trout I catch care about the cheap rods I use.
Back in the pandemic I bought an Orris fiberglass rod from an independent (authorized but not company owned) fly shop. I discovered a manufacturing defect, the local shop wouldn't take care of it and Orris said I had to deal with their independent dealer. I learned my lesson about Orris and their warranty. BS. Haven't spent a dime with them since.
The only rod that Ive bought that actually performed differently (and better imo) are the Loop Tackle 7X’s. I have both a single hand 8wt and double hand 7X 11wt, and those rods are special. Less torsional twist when fighting a large fish really helps fatigue. When you’re fighting a 32” fat Atlantic Salmon for 10-15 minutes while wading waist deep in heavy currents, every bit of energy saved helps.
Great Vise Side chat✊ I’ve got way too many rods,but lately I’ve found myself using my TFO’s with the high end Orvis reels, and the best lines to match, I’ve never justified buying a thousand dollars rod,and I looked at Loomis,Orvis,and even the Shimano,along with custom rods. I’m not a pro but I enjoy myself every time I get the chance to go.🎣 I agree with you 💯
I may have another take on the "high end " fly rod market and how it may have gotten started and perpetuated. I think that some of these companies (Orvis, Sage, Winston, etc.) were seeing what some consumers were willing to pay for quality bamboo rods, old or new, and were wanting to cash in on some of that market while at the same time keeping the benefits of much less production costs, not associated with the bamboo market. It took a little time, but they did it. Some of these graphite (and even glass) rods that one could say are mass produced today, by comparison to the bamboo rod market, are now approaching or are already at a comparable price range as a fine bamboo rod is or was from just a decade ago or more. So today, one can choose to buy a rod that has been marketed as a more efficient casting and fishing tool, or a rod that can deliver a more aesthetic classic fishing and casting experience depending on what experience one is after, for a comparable price. To be fair, I do know that the private bamboo rod market has been keeping pace with inflation and what a consumer is willing to pay for a finely made fly rod, and thus continuing and perpetuating these two markets and their competition for what a fine fly rod should be worth and/or cost. Another way to say this is ....surely if someone will pay $3,000 + dollars for a bamboo fly rod, then they should also be willing to pay $1,000 + for a high end graphite fly rod, even if the fishing experience may not be exactly the same.
My fav rod is the TFO Axiom IIx. $400 and I have yet to find a rod that lets me cast the entirety of a 9wt. I'm a long time fly fisherman with reasonable technical skills and that series of rods (I own a 7wt, a 9 wt, and very soon an 11wt) is the most consistent I've ever casted.
I appreciate the video. There’s a lot of truth here, and a few caveats. I’ve fly-fished for nearly 45 years, going from penniless teenager, to someone who can now (thankfully) afford a $2K rod & reel outfit. My favorite rods ARE some of the more expensive rods I’ve fished, but I’ve also held some very good cheap rods, and some not-so-great pricey rods, so there’s not always a direct correlation. Also, a lot of it is just matching a rod to your casting style and needs. Most of my fishing is done on small rivers and streams, and so punching a double-haul 80 feet into the wind is just not a common need for me. But I also believe that if you fish a certain rod long enough, you will begin to adjust your technique to get the most out of it. One of my favorite rods ever was purchased for $20 at K-mart in the early 1980’s. It had a foam grip and aluminum reel seat, but it cast beautifully. Unfortunately, I snapped the tip off going through one of those old-fashioned screen doors at an old historic fishing lodge, and the rod was just never the same. Even more than rods, you need to think long and hard before dumping big $$$ into a reel. Yes, if you’re hunting big game -saltwater, or salmon & steelhead, a good drag becomes important. But for most trout, bass, and panfish uses, that reel is just there to store your line. So if you need to save money, that’s the first place to skimp, IMO.
I payed about 35$ for my Chinese rod which is far better then my 100$ starter rod, 35$ for my cheapo Chinese alloy reel that I painted plus lacquered then installed a DIY cork disc into, I got the line for free and tie my own flies. That is a really inexpensive way of getting into fly fishing, you don't need expensive gear to get started.. The first line I actually bought and it was awful, this one I got for free is a 30-40$ one and I can cast probably 85-100 feet with this. The cheap line I had I could just manage the 80feet mark, but I had to really put in some work to get that out compared to the new one.. Line is probably the most important part, I could go for a much better line but it's really not necessary yet for coastal trout fishing which I do. Maybe one day if I want a longer cast, a new Rio line would be a good upgrade but for now I have to learn that double haul to perfection. 😅
I am new to the fly fishing world, but have been very active as a surf fishermen for years. Our community is extremely small, and none of the big manufacturers make anything of quality, and next to nothing besides rods and reels. For nicer quality rods, and gear like surf bags, belts, etc, smaller, independent companies and individuals have popped up to fill the need. It is good in that we are supporting small businesses that give back to our fishing community, but it also does necessitate paying a bit more.
I am a one of those thousands of us out there. I’m a trout bum. I tie my own flies, maybe a dozen patterns that I fish regularly and am very successful with. I buy equipment on sale. It’s hard to justify a $600 pair of waders when I can get two for that and have a spare. My Old LLBean rod fishes as well as my Sage VXP(that I bought at close out) I’d rather spend my money on gas and multi state licenses. I fish 50-70 times a year. Been fly fishing for over 50 years. It’s never crossed my mind to say “boy if I could only have one of those $1000 rods, I’d do so much better”. Great video. Thank you
One of the best fly fisherman I know where's a old $50 pair of rubber hip waders. He said why should I pay $500 for chest waders when I don't ever wade past my knees.
Great comment Wingman I completely agree. I guided for two summers in MT and saw clients with everything. My favorite is when I’d throw the $300 rod in with their $1000 and they liked it more.
Amazing Sir Keep them coming!
@@Avicados Ha! That's a hoot
well I kept ripping the 100 200 dollars waders and I was like screw it Imma get G3s, going strong 3 years now with a lot of abuse. All situational. Maybe I just lucked out but if you fish out of a boat or park your ass in one spot for 5 hours, $50 pair will suffice. I haul ass through brush, tress and rocks putting on 5 miles an outing so Id probably go through 4 pairs a year of the cheap ones.
Stayed at the Slide Inn for a few days back in July 2017 and had a chance to talk with Kelly. I found him to be a very honest and upfront guy with a solid inside knowledge of the industry. Kelly, I am a disabled vet on a very small pension, and your thoughts and opinions on gear, fly tying, etc, are invaluable in helping me stay in the game. Thank you. Can't wait to come back to the Slide Inn someday!
I love Kelly’s matter of fact delivery and candor. He always keeps it real.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Sometimes it feels like I'm all alone out here with the common sense and logic - but you and the other people commenting here prove that there are still a few people out there who understand how things actually work in the real world.
One thing about Kelly it is a no BS explanation. God love him!!! I live in Cleveland and buy everything from him because he is just a normal guy. The guy is a legend and you would never know it talking to him. One great guy
I just watched a video of a well known shop owner n tyer who I used to rate up there with his friend Kelly...lol. well pampas was the word that repeatedly hit me in the face the whole time I watched him.. the things he said weren't wrong mind you.. but the way he said them pissed me off quite frankly.... thank god Kelly never does that... 😂 he did call a friend of his a lucky angler... n as he described why he made me think of Kelly... he described the guy always cast to slack water n pulled huge fish... well isn't that what Kelly's preached for years..lol. tells me how he fishes...
For a very long time, fly fishing was an elite sport, available primarily to people within a certain level of disposable income - that's still true, in many cases, but it's no longer exclusive. My first fly rod was a Fenwick paired with a Medalist reel back in the late '60s, when I was in my early teens (and even that was a stretch for my lawn-mowing revenue) and that rig caught me an enormous number of fish. More importantly, it made it necessary for me to concentrate on my skills, rather than depend on the quality of my equipment to compensate for any lack. In the subsequent years, I've been able to upgrade significantly, and have even been able to take Orvis up on their warranty when I broke the tip of my three-weight fighting an unexpectedly robust largemouth bass. Nobody needs a thousand-dollar rod, just as no one needs to be able to make a 100-foot presentation - but it's nice if you can. I think, usually, the same holds true for reels - the vast majority of fishermen will be satisfied with the performance of a well-built mid-priced reel and never feel the need for anything more - until you're getting into really big fish in salt water, a lot of the features of a high-end reel are superfluous to your average week-end warrior fisherman. What made companies like Orvis and Abercrombie & Fitch and the like so successful was not necessarily the quality of the equipment or the backing of the company with their warranties, but the implied status that owning one of their rods could convey - and that's still true today. Very often, those high-priced rods and reels are sold not because of what they can do, but because of the message they convey to other fishermen. I doubt that many of us could make a cogent argument regarding the specific formula that goes into determining the taper from butt to tip of one brand vs another, or even that it's especially meaningful - if you cast with a rod for a sufficient amount of time, eventually you will teach yourself how to get the most out of any brand. Arguably, there may be some actual value in having an onyx stripping guide and a reel seat made of walnut burl or tiger maple, but I think for most people the value is more often based on ego, rather than performance. Thanks for an honest opinion from someone who actually has the credibility of experience.
I would say that in the late 60's Fenwick and Medalist were premier brands, fly tackle that was too rich for me at that time!😄
Nowadays flyfishing with a $1000 rod is cheap fishing. The sonar alone on a $50,000 bass boat is worth more than two of them!
Thanks for being brave enough to make this video. You reinforced what I suspected all along.
The $1000 rods w lifetime warranties are really $400 rods with a $600 insurance policy. I’ve built a few rods and beat the hell out of the 6wt and it’s still going strong. Also, the real expensive rods tout being super fast (most of them), and I prefer a med fast. They’re easier to cast, more versatile, and I don’t need to cast 70’.
Exactly. I don’t mind spending money on a good rod. I have zero interest in buying insurance on the rod.
By built you mean you purchased a premade blank and added components to it, right?
Or did you find raw carbon, rolled it, added the resins, cooked it, added more components, tested it, and then did it all over again until you got that good rod?
@@GlitchMan1011 I bought a blank and added components
@@GlitchMan1011 the construction of a blank is extremely expensive endeavor. It's like expecting a guy that built his engine to mean he forged then machined the block....
This comment is the truth. The only part that's inaccurate is the number. The $1000 rod is a $100 build at most with a $900 insurance policy. Additionally the massive margins on rods is to cover lower margins on other items they sell.
My experience is from working in a rod shop and now owning one myself.
My best rod is a 5 weight build kit from Cablas. I put it all together 20 years ago. I use a cheap reel.
Thousands of trout later ,I still love it.
My favourite rod now though is a starter rod :a 12’ tenkara rod.
Give me a small river with pockets and it rules. Even better with an upstream breeze.
Nails it.
In the past 5 years or so I've switched over to all USA made rods and reels. Not because they're better, but because I want to support US manufacturing and US workers. The last generation of Orvis Recon was $429, which i thought was totally reasonable for a US made rod. It's getting a little bit out of control now though. $1200 for a new Winston is crazy.
Couldn’t agree more man. 💯💯💯💯
Want to support US manufacturing then support U.S. unions. U.S. manufacturing died when US unions were destroyed by corporate bourgeois. Support unions, not just any U.S. manufactured business. That’s just ignorant.
@@decolonizedmeateater found the pinko.
@@andrewdomonic6603 found the bootlicker
Although a noble thought. What your really supporting is America's capitalistic ideology. Where that ideology is now about making as much profit as possible. This intern screws us the consumer. If you find and support smaller American companies is a good way of supporting American workers, as these companies are more focused on getting their product out there. I've started buying Echo rods. Great bang for their buck.
Thank you for being so honest about this, there’s not that many people in the flyfishing world willing to tell the truth about this!Besides, it makes poor folk like me feel better about my extremely awesome $200 rod! Thanks for your channel Kelly and gang!
Good video. I agree. Technology has improved the quality of mid priced rods (from those in the past). Careful selection will give you years of good service. Past two seasons, I’ve been using an Australian $500 rod and I can’t see much difference from premium rods I have.
My 3rd rod I ever bought was an echo, and I fell in love with them. I have done guided trips and used their expensive orvis rods and sage. But honestly, i love the value and how Echo rods cast. I mean, you know darn well, there is a insane markup value on all these other rods. Thanks for talking about this.
I like what you said in this talk. I was a guide in an Orvis shop and all my rods were Orvis. Make no mistake, they are great rods but, my favorites are the ones I built myself. It can be very expensive in components but the joy of fishing a rod you built is immeasurable.
I really like this perspective. Working in a fly shop I frequently see people coming in looking at the $200 - $400 rods and questioning their quality compared to the $800 and above rods we carry. I have many conversations with customers along these lines. I've sold many Redingtons and Echos (both of which I own and fish) and they come back and say how much they like them. I personally own a couple of Sages and St. Croix and really like them as well. Like Wingman describes, below, they then have left over money to invest in other items. Good review, Kelly!
Well said, Kelly. I have a smaller budget than some of my fishing buddies and I have gone the "value" route many times with my rods. I am a BIG fan of TFO for several reasons, I have an Axiom 2X 7wt I like for throwing streamers. One of my more monied friends had bought a brand new Sage X, and we fished together a couple weeks later. We traded rods for half the day and in the beginning I was preparing myself to figure out how to save and budget for my own X. But after fishing it for half a day, I didn't need it. It is a fine rod, but I didn't like it any better than what I already have... not as much, to be honest. Maybe the cork is a bit nicer. That's about all I could come up with. Lower cost rods are certainly worth it and likely every bit as good as the flagship rods form other bigger manufacturers.
🙌
Own 3 TFO rods they are awesome.
@@camerannC ❤🙌
Great Video and I completely agree. I began my guiding experience back in the early 90s and had all Loomis Rods back than a 600 dollar to 800 dollar rod was high end Graphite and Loomis was what I guided with and what I fished with myself. I was even taught how to Double haul at a clinic by Steve Rajeff who was repping Loomis at a Fly Shop I worked out of In Twin Falls Idaho. I swore by Loomis rods my favorite was a 4WT GLX Loomis 8 foot 6 Inch which I literally slayed any fish I saw in Silver Creek without even trying. This was do partially because I was getting pro deals on rods through Loomis but also because they were exceptional rods. Inevitably all good things come to an end just like trout season in the PNW. I switched to Silver Creek Outfitters by the late 90s and so did my flyrod pro deals. I fished Sage for years as part of my pro deals and quickly left my loomis devotion for a quiver of Sage Rods for trout and Steelhead. I quickly changed my loyalty and, started fishing the Sage XP's fast action guns for Silver Creek Browns and Rainbows. Again swearing by these new rods to be the bees knees for all your flyfishing needs. Today I continue as a Flyfishing guide but see the reality of the industry for what it is an over priced exercise of hype and commercialization. I have seen some beautiful handmade cane rods in my career that justify their cost based on craftsmanship and their uniqueness. I fished with Jack Hemingway before his passing and have guided and fished with numerous other legends over the years some of which carried and fished with rods worth as much as the truck I drove. I currently am sponsored by #TFO #TempleForksOutfitters rods and frankly find a complete and utter satisfaction in their quality and cast ability. Not to mention that the price tag is more like 1990s Fly rods thus a reasonable option for a guy living on a guides salary. I am actually smitten , did I really use smitten to describe my Flyrod haha. #TFO's quality and castability in their high speed rods gives me no regrets for the moderate investment. I spend my summers up north chasing trout steelhead and salmon guiding with #TFO rods and my winters in Baja Mexico Chasing toothy monsters with #TFO. All my years of experience have taught me alot one of the truths is "There are a 1000 paths to get there you just need to pick the one that works for you " this includes FlyFishing Gear.
I LOVE My TFO rods!!!!!!!!!!!
I used a Tfo 5 weight for ten years loved it caught lots of fish . Gave it to my son now he's on his journey fishing loving the rod I use a scott flex now . Thanks for the videos enjoy watching them!!
Bought a 10' 7wt. Moonshine Drifter, paired it with a Lamson Remix and I have made it my go-to combo for pretty much every situation here in Northern CA. Steelhead, trout, shad, whatever. I'm no expert, but my buddy has noticed a definite improvement in my casting and mending, and this rod makes it easy. I can't justify spending close to $1000 on a rod I'd be nervous about breaking. Beautiful chocolate brown color, a great warranty and comes with an extra tip section. Just $200.
Pick up an H3D. You’ll know just by how light it is. $1009.98 is crazy though. Amazing rod. Got a 2 for the price of one right before they jumped from 999.98 to 1009.98. Also have a bunch of Winston and sage. My two boat rods are echo’s though.
There are two ways to get an expensive suit. You can get a hand made one from Savile Row in London, England, or you can get a crap suit made in the east with a famous label on it. Expensive rods are the latter.
I have been building my own rods since the mid 70s. I have a different take on every single feature of the rod, and the objective is fit, comfort and performance. I just have myself to please. I have my own grip design, which is the Fenwick grip morphed with the Charles Ritz grip. And I prefer, usually large, non-ceramic guide on my gunning rods. That is an example of a fairly huge performance gap because while I could replace a guide in a few minutes, they have to use ceramic guides on rods used by average users who may be using gritty lines. These are real custom rods, not just a contrasting color of cork inserted in a handle, like a high school woodworking project. But they are hyper customized, the concepts could work for anyone, but they are evolved to suit me.
Companies took the high dollar up front and reneged on the warranty after. I'll name names here. St. Croix and Shimano. I had a $400+ legend elite de-laminate and Croix asked "when did you buy it?" I asked why does that matter, it has a lifetime warranty? They said we changed it to a 15 year policy X number of years ago. That's none of my concern, I paid 20x what it cost them to build that rod for the full warranty. I bought 18 Shimano Talora trolling rods to outfit my boat because they had full lifetime warranties. They are nice, but priced about twice their worth. I broke a downrigger rod on the strike in the holder. I tried a warranty claim and they said those rods now nave a 1 year warranty! I said they have a lifetime warranty, they countered with "If you have your receipt, they are still lifetime warranty." Who the hell keeps a receipt for a lifetime rod? (much less 18 of them) I looked at the product label on the blank and determined that they changed it when they went to a 1 year warranty. So they knew what rods were covered and what rods were not. I worked in sporting retail over half of my adult life. I know how things work. They are are just strokin' people because they can. If you pay the big bucks, you should get the big buck service.
Thank you. I have been fly fishing for over 50 years and I do not own a 1000 dollar rod or even close to that price. I have caught a lot of fish over that time period. I am able to take the money I save and take some nice fishing trips. Some people (so called pros) need to spend more time and actually learn how to use the expensive rods. Thanks again.
I started fly fishing when I was 9 years old. I saved up my allowance, and bought a $6.00 rod off the clearance rack at Clarkin’s in Kent Ohio. A $4.00 reel and some level line. I used 6lb test mono to make my leader/tippet. I used that flyrod setup until I was a SGT in the Army. It caught Bass, Bluegill, big Northern Pike in Michigan, Trout and Land Locked Salmon in Maine, and I can even recount all of the other fish and states! I never knew there was anything better. Today, I swing a Sage XP that I bought used at the local fly shop. It isn’t about money.
All of the carbon blanks are made overseas, as is 90% of the materials used for rod building and fly tying. Matter of economies. We pay $1 for a fly that cost less than $0.05 to make over there. I built custom rods for Kahn Smith and was one of the first tyers for Rainy's Flies back in the 80s. TFO was started in my home town, as was Leigh Outdoors. I now work in a different industry where I see the same supply chains. "American Made" means "American Assembled".
Thanks for being so straightforward and honest about the industry. I agree 100% if I like a rod I like a rod and it doesn't matter what the price tag is.
I bought a Echo Lift 9ft #5 as my backup rod to my Orvis Recon and it became one of my favorites as well. For the money it's dumbfounding to me to buy a more expensive rod for someone just starting out or wanting a great backup. It performs every bit as good as my Orvis does.
Can the trout feel the difference? My experience is that it is the last 3 feet of the line and hook / fly that counts
A few years ago I decided that I would invest in a planing form, some Stanley 9 1/2 planes, some bamboo culms, and the duct pipes and heat gun to build a heat treating oven, and I’ve since made about 30 bamboo rods. Total cost of the tools and form was about that of one high end graphite rod. Some of my rods may show a few glue lines or may be a few thousandths of an inch off some taper dimensions but they all have been good fishing tools and it’s been a ton of fun. Trust me, it’s not brain surgery and you can do almost all the work without a bunch of fancy tools like mechanical planers, binders, rod wrappers etc. Lots of folks make their own graphite rods from blanks and components. Just a thought.
My first fly rod was an old Fenwick fiberglass 5wt I bought from my neighbor for $35 about 30 years ago. Lots of dollars spent on lots of premium fly rods since (Winston, T&T, Scott), but I still enjoy bringing out the old Fenwick. I sometimes think I should have just stuck with the Fenwick, and invested all that other rod money in the stock market. Could now take that pricey Alaska fishing trip I’ve always dreamed about.
Well said Kelly,always keeping it reel.I think you have said out loud what many have been dying to get off their backs for years.I have many top end rods purchased between 1994 - 2015.I love them and i bought them because they were "affordable".When top end rods reached the $700 price point i quit buying them.Ive done a deep dive into Sage's warranty program.There are countless complaints about warranty repairs with them most people now waiting for between 4 (if you lucky) mnths and 10 mnths.Thats not worth a $1000!!
Totally agree that the warranty started pushing the prices. Like you said, they have to basically price in the potential of a replacement. Twice I have broken an old Orvis Silver label and received a brand new rod of a current release. I even think that part of the reason that they have the Clearwater series is to not only have a lower entry point rod, but they needed something to replace these older rods under warranty.
Total sense all the way through. Told as it is. I've seen another video where a couple of guys blind tested 8-10 rods, from low-end to high-end. As I recall, both testers opted for the second cheapest rod!
I picked up the Echo Traverse set up after hearing Kelly's recamendation of the rod and reel and line. All of which are superb. I was still pleasantly surprised by what a nice set up it is . Thanks for cluing me into this set up.
Thanks for your honest feedback Kelly, love it!
I am still fishing with the Eagle Claw graphite rod that I fished with Kelly on the Boardman River in the mid 70's while we were still in High School.
5:18
I love my Eagle Claw glass 5/6. I think they cost about 25$ now a days. I’ve had plenty of mid tier, low tier, and a few higher end stuff, but ultimately I always feel gravitated to go back to glass. Super durable, fun to fish, and usually cheap as heck.
On that note; I sent back a redington butter stick this past year. It was my fault it broke, but man the warranty took every bit of 4 months to complete. Broke in July and I didn’t see it until November. Just food for thought.
Amen!! Too much status in fly fishing, especially with beginners!! They have every piece of the latest equipment. Learn the basics and you can catch as many fish with a $200 rod vs. $1000.
Most of my working history has been primarily seasonal forestry or state park jobs (tight funds most of the time) but about two years ago I got a full time pretty good paying job for an ecological mitigation company, so all of a sudden I had funds for things I've always seen in those little orvis booklets and wanted but couldn't afford in the past, so I started goin nuts, bought every fancy expensive rod, reel, and fishing pack I saw. After about three years of that I'm right back to my Fenwick combo set up, and a good ole backpack, it cracks me up. Guess ya never know until ya try it but wooo boy, I sure could have saved some bucks by sticking to what I like, simple stuff. At least my buddies kids got some fancy stuff over the last few Christmas's haha. Your the man Kelly, thank you for the video
It's difficult to try out lots of rods, especially one that is matched with the proper line! It's a lot like guns matched with the right optics. How many people actually try out several hunting rifles, of varying price points, prior to buying? Or better yet buy a higher dollar rifle and cheap out on a sub par scope.
Great video , I totally agree. I just purchased a 5 weight Loop Q and it's fantastic .All my sage rods are gathering dust.
That's interesting. I've never cast a loop rod I didn't like.
You are right if you find a Radja like use it if it cost $100 or a cost 1000 and you feel comfortable casting it you should use it but there’s one problem you got a set it up with the right line weight to balance the rod, and most importantly, to deliver the fly you need the right leader you put all three of those things together and you have the right rod for the right situation presenting the rights fly in the right place.Fishin’Jimmy
Ever since I started getting into fly fishing, Mr. Galloup has been my favorite fly tier to watch and learn from. I agree with him 100% on this subject. Especially nowadays, I don't have much money to spend on hobbies. I own two fly rods currently, one my parents bought me as a Christmas gift, and one I bought myself. My parents bought me a close to $300, 9' rod, came with a reel and line and it performs beautifully for me whenever I have the space to use it. It has caught me many fish, and I can fish any fly I have on it. It casts and performs perfectly for what I need it to do. The rod that I bought for myself cost me about $90 on Amazon, 6'7", came with a reel and line and performs for me just as beautifully as the $300 rod. I'm more limited in the fly size I can fish with it, as it is a much lighter weight rod, but that was what I wanted out of it. I've caught just as many fish on it as I have the more expensive and heavier rod. I live in an area with lots brush and small streams/rivers, so a shorter rod works well for me in a lot of places, but the longer rod works just as well in some places. There were heavier rods that could fish heavier flies in the same price range, but they were longer and would defeat the purpose of me looking for a shorter rod.
Just as Mr. Galloup said here, it's not the price of the rod that matters, it's how the rod works for you. A stick with a line and a hook tied to it can catch a fish.
I'm an old Northern Pike fisherman from Wisconsin and always used St. Croix rods for pike. I almost exclusively fish smallmouth now and I have two $350 St. Croix 7 weights and 2 Sage Spectrum 7/8 reels and couldn't be happier.
I've fly fished for 65 years, both trout and bass. Kelly made mention of a pet peeve of mine. The so-called starter rod. A rod is either fishable or it isn't. My favorite 8wt for popper bugs cost $80. It casts beautifully. My old IM-6 Fenwick has caught so many trout it's scary. The big thing with those rods is that I can make any cast with either one. The rods I don't like are the fast action biffo-stiffos. Even the low end graphite rods, to me, are better than any glass we could get in the old days.
I agree with you sir. My original heddon glass 5wt 6.5 ft got broken in a move so i jad to replace it. I bbought a cabelas Korea made 6ft 5wt graphite and it is a fine rod imo. I put a $30 wf cortland on it and fished the hell out of it. A $99 rod, 20 reel, and the 30 line. I did decide to get a lighter outfit so i bought a TFO 6ft 2wt and put a 20 reel on it with 30 or 40 dollar line cortland or sa. Ican cast it 50 or 60 ft if needed with a 6lb straight mono leader. I think i did spend about 150 for this rod ant i have fished it for at least 6yr. I am a warmwater guy. I also have a bevy of short light glass rods. I have a 9ft Diawa that is labeled as a 9wt. It does not cast well with a 9wt line. I might do well with a 10wt line but i dont have one to try. This rod wad one Diawas first trys in graphite in about 197
My favorite way to buy high-dollar rods is on closeout. Like most things today, fly rods have hit the point of diminishing returns. Last year's $600 rod can be bought for half off if you're just patient. When it comes to designing rods, Tim Rajeff (who owns Echo) is the real deal (that's who designed the rod Kelly is referring to in this video). A while back I cast an Echo Carbon XL paired with Rio Perception, and I was stunned by how well it casts. In my view, the more expensive rods (I own a pair of Douglas SKY G's) is they are lighter in the hand. I do find it easier to be more precise with the SKY G than with any of my less-than-high-dollar rods, but not by a lot.
Thanks for the video Kelley. I just wished you would have posted it 3 years ago before I let expensive rod envy get the best of me. Funny thing about that is my first rod was a Echo carbon XL that I still have and love. It fishes just as good, and in certain areas better, than the 1k rod I have in the same length and weight. Happy with both but personally I will not buy another 1k rod at retail again. Love your straight forward content and can’t wait for the next one.
Also my first rod. I've got an army of expensive rods (all bought on discount), but still love the XL.
Have to agree with the carbon XL!
Perfect points. This advice carry’s over to nearly everything I buy. I’ll pay extra for a craftsman, I’ll pay extra for American made, I’d even pay extra for personalization or custom. I will never pay extra for prestige, a name or trend.
So true! I have $300-$600 rods. I also have a $1000 rods. They are all good. Price isn't important. It's what gets the job done, it's what you like. And yes the lower priced rods do have better quicker warranty. Meaning less hassle.
Great explanation and my thoughts exactly! About 20 years ago ( when I only had a $100 rod) My friends and I were in a fly shop and a customer said “I only fish with Winston” 😂 🤢🤮Some people just want the prestige. To this day we still bring that comment up because we have always thought our now, $200 rod will get the job done. My most and LAST expensive rod of $450 just broke, won’t buy another one!
I have both, fishing is my passion, I want to enjoy all ranges, I love Spinning too. My greatest joy of fishing is being out on the water all day and just waving a stick, going to where trout live, catching Big and small, seeing if where I placed my fly/lure in the right spot.
Thank you Kelly for your honesty! For a guy who makes his living selling those rods, That took guts.
When I started fly fishing 6 or so years ago I bought five rods from St. Croix and reels from Aspen " San Diego California " all USA made and still working great all for under $1300
I've built a couple of rods on North Fork Composites Iconoglass blanks. Pretty impressive performance and when on sale at $75 for a U.S. made Gary Loomis designed blank I don't think you could find a better deal. Other than that I'm fishing mostly old fiberglass Fenwicks, Phillipsons and even my old SA system 7 I got for my high school graduation. I like rods that bend. The only graphite I use anymore are 8 & 9 wts. I think you nailed the issue. Get a rod you can cast well and go with it. 100' away no one can tell what you're using anyway. They can, however, tell if you can cast or not.
Kelly you are the voice of the common man. I mean that as the highest compliment. Thank you for an honest, straightforward video.
Bravo for this piece. Reminds me a lot of the snobbery around road and mountain bikes, which have become exponentially more expensive as people with too much disposable income become more involved in the sport. As a retired road racer and lifelong fly fisherman, I have seen a lot of this sort of "my equipment cost more than yours" business creep into both sports. Of course what actually matters is how quickly you can get up the road on a bike, or how well your equipment performs when actually fishing. Years ago I met famed fly fishing author Charles Brooks and his wife while fishing on the upper Yellowstone. Charles was fishing with a glass rod and a big nymph, catching and releasing big cutthroats where others were drawing blanks. Watching him fish was poetry in motion, but there was no single element of his equipment that could not be obtained for a reasonable price at any fly shop. What mattered was that every single element of his technique was perfectly matched to those fish in that section of the river.
Nice story 👏
@@thewetfly9207 awesome post. I still have his nymphing book. I rebuild vintage road and mountain bikes , many of them I salvage for free , and they're awesome. A guy gave me a Tomassini Prestige . But I ride my lowly Moto Mirage daily for training. Been riding 50 years , flyrod since 1985. I ride up to the Farmington now with a BOB trailer. (used, 100 bucks) 30 miles each way. And camp. The looks and comments I get. I have a couple cool glass rods too.
I'm looking at my $1,000 rods saying yes they're way overpriced but I still love them. Once you get over $500 idk I can really tell much difference my Sage Sonic is nearly as identical as my T&T Avantt in my hands.
Great video Kelly, thanks for sharing your opinion with us!!!!!!!
My first rod s Heddon 7wt 8' fiberglass PAL got me Warm and Coldwater bass Pike trout and salmon until I broke bottom female ferrule, fixed it , but also bought another Berkeley 6wt. 7'-6" "Gray" model rod as backup and fell in love with it, especially in skinny waters, casting feel and finesse on my Heddon 320 reel that I wore out the reel seet screws , repaired multiple times but perfect line holder. I'm no legend but I am told I am guide worthy and then I started guiding. I got a 7/8 weight new reel on same old rods catching 20-30" fish hasn't broke my rods yet . I am going strong catching on the largest streamers on wf 7 s tip line and a new 9' four piece rod and a new 5 wt reel on my old rods and all I do is learn, adjust, practice and get fine tuned . I love nymphs and streamers . I think your sculpins especially are great. I fish for bigs test my deliveries with articulateds and nyphd for numbers of trout for fun and eat the avg fish... I started focusing on more patterns to make it interesting. I like naturals more.. But honestly a peasant tail flashback, stronefly, match whatever is under the rocks, and big articulateds are tightening my line. I have found I am not missing expensive gear but all my costs is in flies testing replenishing what works best . Sir learning your casting techniques rod control tip movements strip discipline is most important thing I have yet to hear in your details in years. You are a master angler from my respect my friend sharing deep insights of value. We are a closed lip group most of us men. You are a find among videos. God bless your Business and fishing.
A breath of fresh air. Well Done!!
yes i agree... the 1000$ ones i think its best to spend that on custom like he said...not a mass made ones... i think the mass made ones should be priced 500 imo...
After tests severely fly rods dedicated to streamer fishing . I tried rods from 300.00 to over 900.00 . The best casting rod I ended up purchasing was a Echo Streamer X very affordable and better than any rod I tried . I own Winston , Thomas and Thomas and Scott …. This one out preformed all of them .
My first fly rod was a Pfluger Summit I bought at Kittery Trading Post, in Maine, for $50. A co-worker told me about Orvis for $300 at the time… Warranty he said. I broke my Pfluger by falling… KTP replaced it. Unbelievable!
Seriously brave video but love the message. I've had my eye on some very expensive rods but your story about grabbing the kit rod and it becoming your go-to made me rethink the purchase for another day. My $120 rod has delivered every fly I've asked it to and has never let me down. My $1,000 rod purchase will be a reward to myself at some point in time. For now, my collection of rods will suit me just fine. Enjoy the straight forward discussion.
Exactly! If you like the look, and can afford it, then good for you! When I was a kid I used a stick and line I found. That also worked!
Over 35 years of fly fishing, I accumulated 25 rods of various makes. Most are from Winston, Sage, and Scott. I bought many of them at a steep discount when a manufacturer discountinued a line of rods ( e.g. Winston Boron IIIx ) or they were lightly used demo rods. Each rod has its own character and transmits a different experience to my hand while casting it or playing a fish with it.
Some rods have a longer reach, which helps while nymphing. Others do better in windy situations. ( One of my favorites for the Madison is a 25+ year old Sage, which I got in Fort Smith on a particularly windy day. ) Still others are better suited for small streams.
While some rods may help you catch all the fish you want, the right rod for the situation can make for a much better experience-whatever the make or cost.
The entry level rods are often some of the best feeling rods. Huge sweet spot for loading, super easy to cast. Usually yeah super rough reel seat. Not the greatest guides, not much style, etc. Any good fly angler can pick up a quality entry level rod and they will probably be impressed by its castabilty. I own a winston boron 3. It is my favorite rod... number 2 is the Orvis encounter.
A couple years ago, I accidently left my rod at home in a rush to get to the river. So, I went to the local big box "Sportsman" stores that was near the river. I ended up getting a $150 Redington 6wt rod to fish that day. Guess what? I ended up liking it more than my $500 Winston (the slower action was more to my liking/casting style). That rod is now my go to and my "nice" rod stays at home. I can hand it to my kid, or one of his buddies and not worry about it. 🤣
Those Redingtons are the budgetbrand of SAGE.....good quality for the price
My favorite trout rod is a Sage VXP 4 wt. I think the thing was originally in the $550 price range, but I found it on a closeout for half that. It is a medium fast rod that for trout, that I prefer. A favorite salmon rod is a BVK 8 wt, another $250 purchase. So, I'll testify that one does not have to spend high bucks to get good equipment. That said, I love my Sage Method. What is there about the rod that enamors me so? Effortless casting, weight, finish, and the cork handle is a thing of beauty. It is a fast rod that can cast long. This feature, by the way, as far as I'm concerned, is only an issue if you are fishing salt. It is light, this feature also comes into play when your double-hauling all day long.
Interesting.
I just came back from a vacation that took us through the National Parks in Colorado, South Dakota, and Wyoming. I went into maybe 8 different fly shops on the way, looking for info on the fishing in each area.
All of them were proudly displaying rods that cost between $3,000 and $6,000. Yes, there were lower priced rods available like Echo, but these were not out front. Add to this the high cost reels, line, waders, boots, etc. they were selling and all of what you are saying makes sense.
I'll keep my St. Croix rod and Bass Pro reel continue to cast tight loops that are spot on, and count my blessings.
The status factor and prestige factor I think is what makes the difference here. Many have to have that expensive rod or reel to flex. I love my Echo Bases and have been happy fooling Ranch fish with them! :D
Thanks for this perspective. Speaking as a “regular guy“ I really appreciate this. I’m retired. I don’t have $1000 to swing out a fishing rod. And it appears I don’t need to either. Thank you.
Great video, one thing I bought several tfo rods years ago when they were advertised as having lifetime no fault warranties only to find out they no longer do. Still agree they are good for the price and you can buy the sections to replace that broke but still thought they should honor what they advertised when I bought them.
Have a 500 dollar St. Croix!
Other day at the thrift store I found a 8 dollar rod that moved the St.Croix to the bench, and it's now my backup rod!
The swing weight is everything! I can say cheap rods break faster,expensive rods survive hooks in the bush better than the cheap ones.
Amdrican rod action has been copyied in many foreign brands,but they feel heavier than american high end brands to me that is.
I want nrx! Light and POWER vs cheaper rods.
I agree to what you’re saying to an extent. The smaller rods (3-8wt) there isn’t much difference in the less vs the pricier rods, however when you get into the larger (9-12wt) rods I think there’s a lot of difference in them. I personally own both and the larger pricier ones are much better than the less expensive ones.
I tend to spend more on the faster higher weight rods myself, I like to be real accurate and consistent on salt.
I have a near $1000 Sage that I got because I became a Trout Unlimited Life Member. It is nice, but no where near as good as my Grigg Custom Made brand (no longer made) or my Okumas, both at about $50 each. PT Barnum was right then and is still right today. Great vid!!!!!!!!
I'm in the UK and have been a fluff chucker for 40 years. I started out in the mid 80's wih the old carbon rods, I've had Ryobi, Diawa, Orvis, Greys, Loop and now i have a couple of custom made AtomSix.
The Orvis i had 2 of, both 10ft boat rods, they were £250ish each in the mid 90's, now i suspect they'd be a lot more. I bought a Loop 7X second hand and i had that roughly a year until i found AtomSix, had a few casts with it and fell in love with them, half the price of the Loop, British built, customised to my specs and the maker is a Veteran like me, hopefully it'll last me a lifetime. Apparently the blanks are American.
I've heard that the likes of Orvis, Scott, TFO etc now have their blanks manufactured in Korea or China, shipped to the US and assembled there.
The one thing with the burkhiemer you forgot to mention is that they do yearly maintenance on the rod as well.
I remember when I got into the fly fishing world many years ago, I started with a inexpensive combo. I told myself, I’d never buy a $1000 rod. Over my travels and encounters with fish, I’ve learned one beautiful and universal truth, buy once. After dealing with stiff blanks and bad craftsmanship, I bought my first 1k rod. Winston Rods is hands down the best maker in the industry, I’ve casted almost every rod out there. I’ve had my one for almost 4 years and fish it 300 days a year and it shows minimal wear. Quality is key!
Kelly I just happened on your vid. Respect out to you sir!! A no-BS take Keep em coming I'm 'hooked'!
I used to wrap a bunch of line on a stick, add a small weight, used a stick as bobber, added hook and worm and caught a my limit many times.
I've had loomis, Sage, Zpey, Orvis, Winston, Loop, Guideline, T & T over the years and loads of others. I recently cast a Scott Centric the other day and it was something else.
I would say that I love my Winston’s. Beautiful colors, casting and just handling them. I also have some Echo’s that are superb. RLW gets a good penny for their wares. Echo is just awesome and not just awesome for the price but just plain awesome. The finish isn’t as pristine but I enjoy them Very much. If you can afford and want a high dollar rod, buy it! If not, you’re really not missing that much when you spend $400-$500.
Great video, I fell in love with fly fishing as a kid growing up in the South Bronx. Outdoor life had a tv show that they aired during the 80's and I would glue myself to the floor watching every show that I could. During the 80's I was told that a " ok " fly rod would run me at lease $150.00 to $200.00 dollars (that was tough for a kid living in the Bronx and again this was in the 80's) that left me with the Wal mart Roland Martin fly kits. It wasn't until the mid 1990's that I was introduce into Temple Fork Rods at a fly-fishing show in Marlboro Massachusetts. They didn't even have a fully run web site back then. the 1st rod I tried was their 6wt rod, I loved it and purchased it for $79.00 dollars, The following year I purchased their 9wt, again for $79.00 dollars. Both rods could be sent back for repair for a $25.00 dollar warranty charge. I still fish both those rods to this very day. Outside of the 3pc. Avid St Croix 10 wt. that I won in a raffle I mostly fish with these Temple Fork rods and LOVE THEM!!!
I think Kelly said it very clear.....ENJOY what you have.....it's truly about the time out in or on the waters enjoying fly fishing. It's not what you spend that brings the enjoyment. Don't ruin you enjoyment by putting artificial label's on it. My Dad loved fly fishing more than any thing else and it wasn't because he could by the most expensive rod or reel....price had nothing to do with the experience, he believed in his Fenwick rods and found profound pleasure in using and caring for them. Take Care and God Bless
I’ve got white river flash up from Cabela’s. I’m three years into the game. I just bought an Orvis encounter that has an arrived yet, so that’s my first “expensive” rod at $200.
I know I don’t know anything but I can definitely tell you as a rookie was only a few years under his belt the cheap gear I have cost me less than one $1000 rod. And I have a great time every time I get to go out and I’ve caught a fish every time. At least one.
So that’s not too bad
Before I buy I rod I work it as if casting it to see if the action is smooth and matches the rating. This keeps me from making expensive mistakes! I’ve worn out several rods, most under $100. Caught tons of fish on them with no regrets!
Definitely can make up for a lot of things with decent proper line. I think that's the thing that a lot of the combos are doing better these days. Back in the day you could get good performance off a "cheap" combo if you swapped out the line. The line game is crazy right now too, but if you're gonna throw a few extra bucks at something id take line over rod any day. You want to breathe some life into a "low end' old stick try it out and you won't be disappointed.
Hi,I'm from the UK. Here we had a very well respected fly fisher & rod builder who lived near me called Steve Parton of spartan tackle. He always maintained these high end priced rods were absolute BS. All the blanks came from a few small suppliers. This didn't sit well with the sages, hardys In the uk.
Kelly, thankyou for having the balls to point this out. All the very best to you. 👍
It’s been awhile but I’ve toured the orvis factory. They make their own blanks. You can stand there and watch it operate.
Granddad handed me an old South Bend bamboo in 1950 when I was 10, and I've been stirring the air ever since, and I turn 79 tomorrow. I have quite a number of rods, some cheap, and some that would be expensive today. My introduction to the better rods was in the 80s, when I encountered a source for Sage's "blemished" blanks at a very attractive price. I didn't care much how they looked, so here I went - although most of the "blemishes" were hard to find and some I never found. I probably built 20 for myself and friends; break one, strip off the furniture and order another blank. The first round was a matched set - 2,4,6,8 weights, with matched Battenkill reels. I could switch weights and not even notice. (Sage stopped that after a couple of years) Every rod I have except one, I built for myself.
In more recent years I have become involved in bamboo and a veterans FF group. As I had the opportunity to cast a wide variety of rods, I found it simply does not matter; I seem to be able to cast anything. some feel marginally better, but I can still cast the others just as far and as accurately. I don't know how common this trait is, and I don't know how I do it, it just happens.
The most expensive rod I ever cast was a Leonard, valued at $8,000, the value due more to its provenance than the maker; th eprevious owner had been a very famous white-haired flyfishing pioneer. Frankly, I was not impressed with the rod.
Bottom line, Kelly, is I agree with you. Price has nothing to do with anything, except maybe ego, and I don't have much........I just fish. And the damn fish don't care.
Every rod I have except one, I built for myself.
I bought an 80$ #3 set for my daughter, so she does not kill my expensive ones. Boy, i have been enjoying that cheap set since! 😂
Decades ago, Fly Fisherman mag did a rod test “blind” with all the recognized casting experts of the day. The had multiple criteria to score and making a long story short, a very cheap Berkley ended up being the best rod for the money. The casters had no knowledge of what each rod cost and rated them solely on performance. When thos results were then assessed in relation to cost, there was no question which was the best bang for the buck. I’ve never bought a high dollar rod for lower 48 trout because of that. It’s amazing how little the trout I catch care about the cheap rods I use.
Back in the pandemic I bought an Orris fiberglass rod from an independent (authorized but not company owned) fly shop. I discovered a manufacturing defect, the local shop wouldn't take care of it and Orris said I had to deal with their independent dealer. I learned my lesson about Orris and their warranty. BS. Haven't spent a dime with them since.
Thanks Kelly...exactly some of the perspectives I needed as I return to the sport. Looking forward to to visiting you guys in Cameron.
The only rod that Ive bought that actually performed differently (and better imo) are the Loop Tackle 7X’s. I have both a single hand 8wt and double hand 7X 11wt, and those rods are special. Less torsional twist when fighting a large fish really helps fatigue. When you’re fighting a 32” fat Atlantic Salmon for 10-15 minutes while wading waist deep in heavy currents, every bit of energy saved helps.
Great Vise Side chat✊ I’ve got way too many rods,but lately I’ve found myself using my TFO’s with the high end Orvis reels, and the best lines to match, I’ve never justified buying a thousand dollars rod,and I looked at Loomis,Orvis,and even the Shimano,along with custom rods. I’m not a pro but I enjoy myself every time I get the chance to go.🎣 I agree with you 💯
I may have another take on the "high end " fly rod market and how it may have gotten started and perpetuated.
I think that some of these companies (Orvis, Sage, Winston, etc.) were seeing what some consumers were willing to pay for quality bamboo rods, old or new, and were wanting to cash in on some of that market while at the same time keeping the benefits of much less production costs, not associated with the bamboo market.
It took a little time, but they did it. Some of these graphite (and even glass) rods that one could say are mass produced today, by comparison to the bamboo rod market, are now approaching or are already at a comparable price range as a fine bamboo rod is or was from just a decade ago or more.
So today, one can choose to buy a rod that has been marketed as a more efficient casting and fishing tool, or a rod that can deliver a more aesthetic classic fishing and casting experience depending on what experience one is after, for a comparable price.
To be fair, I do know that the private bamboo rod market has been keeping pace with inflation and what a consumer is willing to pay for a finely made fly rod, and thus continuing and perpetuating these two markets and their competition for what a fine fly rod should be worth and/or cost.
Another way to say this is ....surely if someone will pay $3,000 + dollars for a bamboo fly rod, then they should also be willing to pay $1,000 + for a high end graphite fly rod, even if the fishing experience may not be exactly the same.
My fav rod is the TFO Axiom IIx. $400 and I have yet to find a rod that lets me cast the entirety of a 9wt. I'm a long time fly fisherman with reasonable technical skills and that series of rods (I own a 7wt, a 9 wt, and very soon an 11wt) is the most consistent I've ever casted.
Great rod
I appreciate the video. There’s a lot of truth here, and a few caveats.
I’ve fly-fished for nearly 45 years, going from penniless teenager, to someone who can now (thankfully) afford a $2K rod & reel outfit.
My favorite rods ARE some of the more expensive rods I’ve fished, but I’ve also held some very good cheap rods, and some not-so-great pricey rods, so there’s not always a direct correlation. Also, a lot of it is just matching a rod to your casting style and needs. Most of my fishing is done on small rivers and streams, and so punching a double-haul 80 feet into the wind is just not a common need for me.
But I also believe that if you fish a certain rod long enough, you will begin to adjust your technique to get the most out of it.
One of my favorite rods ever was purchased for $20 at K-mart in the early 1980’s. It had a foam grip and aluminum reel seat, but it cast beautifully. Unfortunately, I snapped the tip off going through one of those old-fashioned screen doors at an old historic fishing lodge, and the rod was just never the same.
Even more than rods, you need to think long and hard before dumping big $$$ into a reel. Yes, if you’re hunting big game -saltwater, or salmon & steelhead, a good drag becomes important. But for most trout, bass, and panfish uses, that reel is just there to store your line. So if you need to save money, that’s the first place to skimp, IMO.
I payed about 35$ for my Chinese rod which is far better then my 100$ starter rod, 35$ for my cheapo Chinese alloy reel that I painted plus lacquered then installed a DIY cork disc into, I got the line for free and tie my own flies. That is a really inexpensive way of getting into fly fishing, you don't need expensive gear to get started..
The first line I actually bought and it was awful, this one I got for free is a 30-40$ one and I can cast probably 85-100 feet with this. The cheap line I had I could just manage the 80feet mark, but I had to really put in some work to get that out compared to the new one..
Line is probably the most important part, I could go for a much better line but it's really not necessary yet for coastal trout fishing which I do. Maybe one day if I want a longer cast, a new Rio line would be a good upgrade but for now I have to learn that double haul to perfection. 😅
I am new to the fly fishing world, but have been very active as a surf fishermen for years. Our community is extremely small, and none of the big manufacturers make anything of quality, and next to nothing besides rods and reels. For nicer quality rods, and gear like surf bags, belts, etc, smaller, independent companies and individuals have popped up to fill the need. It is good in that we are supporting small businesses that give back to our fishing community, but it also does necessitate paying a bit more.
You are spot on and got a new suscriber 😀 Greetings from a Norwegian flyfisher! 👍😃