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I am Vimoh, an Indian atheist and my videos have to do with religion, atheism, Indian culture, and sometimes contemporary political happenings.
Below are some videos from this channel that every Indian atheist must watch.
✔️ Videos for the Indian atheist - • Delving Deeper
✔️ How I became an atheist - • My journey between rel...
✔️ Why I am not a "Hindu atheist" - • Why I am not a Hindu A...
✔️ Why I am not a "Hindu atheist" (part 2) - • Belief in karma = beli...
✔️ The Indian atheist problem - • The Indian atheist pro...
✔️ Why atheism is important - • You can't fight irrati...
I for one agree with Dilip that reservation should be for a limited time period. And since caste system has been practiced since ancient India, lets say 5000 years. Please agree to 5000 years of reservations and lets be done with this debate. If you agree please like this comment.
@@anchitbose4151 Caste is a product of Hinduism. Hinduism is said to be thousands of years old (not by me, but by proud Hindus).
@@anchitbose4151 Because caste is a system of distributed hierarchy. Ultimately, everyone except the savarnas suffers under it. The fact that not all of the discrimination is directly handed out by savarnas is immaterial. The system was created and maintained by savarnas. As for Rigveda, I don't care about what it says or doesn't say. I know what the reality today is and I am going to form opinions based on it. You can keep your historical references.
@@anchitbose4151 The criteria is being from the category that created and maintains Brahminism.
@@anchitbose4151 No. They didn't create the system. Stop embarrassing yourself and go read a book.
@@anchitbose4151 Hindu civilization is thought to be 3000-5000 years old. Utna hi lagaa lo.
Edit: Baad ke comments baad mein hi padhe. Manusmriti is said to be written anywhere during 1200 BC. That makes it pretty old.
"India has ancient reservation system that is caste system" , agreed 👍👍👍
Nope, there is difference between deserved and reserved
@@garyoak7614 Atleast you are free to take education now and reserved people didn't get the education they deserved for thousands years... Reserved vs deserved is a bad joke 😂
@@anamelessmonster the original purpose of caste system was never to deny education to the backward classes, and it was indeed changeable.
शूद्रो ब्राह्मणतामेति ब्राह्मणश्चैति शूद्रताम्।
क्षत्रियाज्जातमेवन्तु विद्याद् वैश्यात् तथैव च॥मनु॰॥
The idea that your ancestors were prevented from receiving education was a misconception spread by the British. However, there was no restrictions on education.
And yes, the past cannot be changed, so we need to focus on the present and the future instead of dwelling on the past and arguing about who did what
@@garyoak7614 it is ignorant if you are not looking into history...
@@anamelessmonster History is important to learn from and improve our future. But dwelling on the past can lead to retaliation and violence between communities, which further damages both sides.
Therefore, let's focus on the present rather than the past, as holding on to past grudges will only keep us stuck in an endless cycle of violence and conflict. It's better to learn from our mistakes and move forward with a positive mindset.
My man came in with "And I'm in the US. You probably got it through how I'm talking." 😆Vimoh is a better man than me for not cracking up at that.
I heard that and instantly fell to my knees lmfao 🤣🤣🤣
I can't, that was hilarious! I don't believe in making fun of accents or language proficiency, but I would have laughed in his face if he said that to me!
I was exactly going to write this! Damn that's so cringey and why is he faking the accent so much 😂😂😂
He is mallu from Michigan 🙃
These nri jhandus...
It should be clearly understood that Dr. Ambedkar integrated concept of *Reservation* in Constitution on basis of _Equity_ and not _Equality_ . _Equality_ comes after assurance of _Equity_ is met on all levels in society, which is still not the case in India.
I like chunks of videos like this that you post on your channel. Sometimes I won’t have the time/headspace to watch the whole video of your live sessions. These smaller chunks that are issue specific, help.
Glad you like them!
This is by far the most logical and civilized discussion on this topic. And you were brilliant vimoh. I got a lot of pointers on why reservation is necessary which i can use for any of my discussions.
Much appreciated. Thanks!
Also see video of Vikas divyakirti on the topic
Vimoh is crisp clear in his thought process. Loved discussion.
Ppl cry representation abroad
But dislike it india
Funny af 😂
I cant help but notice and speculate that Dilip is faking a lot of that accent 😅🤣.
What most of us Savarna folks fail to see for a very long time is Social Capital. Reservation is the bare minimum. Reservation is not enough.
@2:30 "Mujhe kya karna hai caste se", said no oppressed person ever.
I was never casteist ..then the same person ' why this reservation?" 😄😄
One of my friends told me that people’s opinions about reservations is a good sniff test to see if they are casteist or not.
Dilip’s idea of giving money to schools / creating resources that LC folks can avail for free instead of diluting passing grades sounds fine on paper. But ultimately that money has to come from our pockets (tax). I doubt he will sing the same tune when he sees an additional line item “10% LC upliftment tax” in his income tax bill.
Ultimately, it’s a zero sum game. UC folks have marginalized LCs for centuries and used those opportunities to create a society that is friendlier for them. Even those who didn’t do it personally, got the privilege not facing what LCs face. The only way to level that field is to give up some opportunities that you feel you have earned by your “hard work”.
Brilliantly said.
The giving money to private schools is a neo-liberal idea. Note, he did not talk about improving the quality of public education. Once you give money to schools for education, you're removing accountability that exists in public school systems. Properly funding public free education has better outcomes that ensuring private businesses get free money to run sub-standard schools.
Id rather pay extra tax money than study 13 hrs a day to get into a decent college
ancient reservation system - that is a good way to look at it. Both of you put forward very nice points to think about. 1. Even today we are considering Rank and MCQs - as Merit. 2. Our main problem is population vs opportunities - and every entrance is for elimination and not for evaluation
I agree with you that the problem is population vs opportunities. One of the most important task and probably one of the highest priorities of Indian Governments (Center and State) and Indian NGOs must be to focus on improving the quality of education at existing universities of India and also increasing the number of Indian universities in sciences, technologies, engineering, medical sciences, management, law, social sciences, political sciences etc. Otherwise as you wrote I agree with your point that every entrance examination is for elimination and not for evaluation.
You see the power of China does not lie in their sweat shops or autocratic governance anymore. China did not lift their 800 million people out of poverty sweating for other nations. The power of China lies in their university system with more than 309 globally ranked universities (rankings are from 2022 US News report of Best Global Universities Rankings available online for free). If someone checks this report of globally ranked universities, one may notice that the nations with highest GDP and per-capita income have most number of globally ranked universities. I am also following the development of Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan over the last 70 years or so and the story about their education and universities is similar if not the same.
I understand China, Germany, Japan, USA, France, UK and other such developed countries are benefitting more from the existing schemes of Indian Government because there are less smarter bureaucrats in the Central Indian Government selected based on their CASTE, REGION and RELIGION than their knowledge and experiences of the matters. In India, the politicians in Parliament and State Legislatures have reservations to establish more universities besides improving the rankings of those universities. Indian political leaders are putting fight between various castes and religions of India with caste-based reservations. Instead, they must increase the number of universities so that everyone of all castes and religions have highest degrees in their hands. A sovereign Democracy works only when a critical mass of the population of a nation is well versed in national, international politics and economics. With as much education as possible including higher education, India's future will improve by raising high-tech awareness of all demographics.
For instance, the population of Taiwan is 2.36 crores. According to 2022 US News Report of Best Global Universities Rankings, there are 33 world ranked universities in Taiwan. For a Taiwanese population of 2.5 crores if there are 33 world ranked universities, then for an Indian population of around 140 crores, there must be more than 1800 world ranked universities in India. How many are there now? Right now there are only 93 world ranked universities in India as per 2022 US News Report of Best Global universities rankings. More statistics, the population of Germany is 8.5 crores. The population of Switzerland is 85 lakhs (0.85 crores). According to 2022 US News report of Best Global Universities Rankings, there are 72 world ranked universities in Germany and there are 11 world ranked universities in Switzerland. India’s population of 139 crores is more than 15 times of Germany and more than 150 times of Switzerland. However, in India there are only 93 world ranked universities as per the 2022 US News report of Best Global Universities Rankings. It is time for Indian consumers to introspect about what’s the use of India’s population that is 15 times of Germany and more than 150 times of Switzerland?
Such small countries like Singapore, Taiwan, Korea, Japan, UK and France can do such wonders in technologies and India with its vast population cannot do the same even with so called literacy and great religions? Because Indian Governments only concentrated on basic literacy for so long and have not been paying as much attention to the tertiary studies at Universities of sciences, technologies, engineering, medicine etc. According to 2022 US News report of Best Global Universities Rankings, here is how East Asia compares to South Asia with respect to the number of world ranked universities in Sciences, Technologies, Engineering, Mathematics, Medical sciences etc.
China(309)+Japan(111)+S.Korea(58)+Taiwan(33)+Thailand(13)+Vietnam(5)+Singapore(4)=533
India(93)+Pakistan(17)+BanglaDesh(1)+Sri Lanka(2)+Afghanistan(0)+Bhutan(0)+Nepal(0)=113
Now who are we kidding saying India is ‘Vishwaguru’ straddled by nations with no regards for a secular democracy? Indian Union with over 1390 million people have only 93 world ranked universities and the European Union with just over 750 million people has around 638 world ranked universities as per 2022 US News report of Best Global Universities Rankings. Innovation, Patents and startups appear to be directly proportional to the number of universities with world standard education in Sciences, technologies, engineering, mathematics, medical sciences, management etc. Therefore, we must all make everyone understand what is meant by A KNOWLEDGE-BASED ECONOMY AND ITS IMPLICATIONS ON GLOBALIZATION.
Thus increasing the number of universities and their global rankings must be the focus of all intellectuals and NGOs of India now so that India has choicest man-power to work on not only latest sciences and technologies but also social and political reforms ultimately improving the overall standard of living of all and their families. When the overall standard of living of all communities is improved, then they will have time to discuss, debate, research and become more aware of their voting power inside universities and also outside in communities. For those who can’t pursue studies at Universities, there must be vocational colleges teaching them 21st century job skills so they either provide their services or start their own trades.
India's Upper Castes have this habit of latching onto foreigners(Angels) to defeat their own(demons) as is evident from the history of invasions of India starting from Aryans, Greeks, Turks, Moguls and recently Europeans. Even now after 74 years of Indian Independence, in 2022, Indians are only known for Curries, Castes, Cows, Yoga, Veggie Prunes, Weapons sales, IT Slaves and street-circus Bollywood dances. Indian Governments, Indian businesses and Indian Media must tap into the huge talent pool of high-tech desis and pravasis to educate and nurture nearly 600 million youth below 35 years old? By doing so, they will not only be reaping profits but also enable more employment opportunities for the youth in India.
Entire South Asia’s economy revolves around easy money like farming, mining, imported machinery, foreign loans and imported raw materials for industries etc. Even PM Modi's FDI is an easy route chosen to show some jobs for Indian Youth. Right now China has the largest bullet train network almost all indigenously built by them while India is struggling with just one imported Japanese bullet-train project. At least India's foreign policy must mature out of exporting food, minerals and visa slaves to generate foreign reserves for importing weapons, industrial raw materials, gadgets and machines.
Right now many foreign brands are manufacturing in India competitively because India does not have ability to build anything high-tech from scratch sourcing minerals, building all necessary components and assembling them. Because of the gulamy mind-set permeating through Indian generations for so long, they have come to believe that nothing good could come out of them, they cannot innovate anything but only depend on their colonial masters’ wisdom and wares. In a ranch or a reserve park, the animals need to be taken care of by their exploiters. Indian Governance has been like that for nearly 5500 years or so. India must move away from being a herd of agrarian, mercenary and slave-trading hierarchical societies of castes and religions strengthened/formed by Colonial powers for nearly 1450 years to a cohesive, disciplined, qualified and healthy communities of intellectuals, post-graduates, high-tech businesses, armed forces and manufacturing workers keeping aside all discriminatory ideologies practiced at home like religion, caste, tribe, sect, language, region, gender, direction of region, zip-code, locality etc. Therefore India’s human resources must also be developed by educating as many as possible at Universities.
In 21st century, Indians must resolve to only concentrate on common interests so we all have happy and prosperous lives, communities, cities, states and a nation by the power of modern sciences and technologies. Let us wish for a day when Indians get noticed only for their thoughts, deeds and degrees but NOT for their religion, caste, language, region, skin-color, health issues or even what they wear or what they eat. Only when people are uneducated, that's when they give excuses and engage in brute-force politics more due to lack of better career opportunities. However if they are educated with graduate and post-graduate degrees, then even though unemployed, majority of them may ultimately strive to be entrepreneurs, join civil services like IAS, IPS or armed forces, become politicians, professors, go to foreign countries etc. thus ensuring India will also have sustainable democracy and develop in Fourth Industrial Revolution on par with other developed nations if not USA. Therefore, we must all understand which is better for a nation? Uneducated unemployed youth or educated unemployed youth…
That's why Gandhiji considered Shudras as the fourth pillar. And Ambedkar wanted to uproot that pillar. There is a lot of difference between advocating casteism and living in casteism.
Most Indians believe that reservation is something that is unique to India but then check out the following set of countries that practice affirmative action/reservation: South Africa, China, Israel, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, Taiwan, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Norway, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, United Kingdom, Canada, United States, New Zealand, Brazil. People who are in the states tend to claim that USA doesn't have any reservation but then at the same time have the affirmative action. Affirmative action in the United States is the active effort to improve employment, educational, and other opportunities for members of groups that have been subjected to discrimination.
Caste system itself reservation on all resources . reservation is for all savarnas
I have still come across many cases, where even if a person from marginalised community (SC, ST, OBC etc) gets to big position have to face same discrimination in society, where they are not allowed to buy land or flats in certain areas/parts of India. Also, many marginalised people have no idea about their rights, and implementation of reservation is still not very fluid in India.
That further concretes the idea for importance of reservation because if there is no reservation for them, they will not even be able to secure and support themselves (and their coming generations) financially. And we can go on and on regarding the atrocities they would be face.
PS: I have no idea where that fake accent is coming from Dilip's end.
I see an inherent problem with Dilip's separation or distinction between Equality of Opportunity and Equality of Outcome. Parts of his discourse on reservations here lead me to believe that he is prepared to concede that education is an opportunity, while jobs are the outcome. I don't see how that makes any sense in the larger picture. Status in society, quality of life and respect from peers is the outcome. Reservations in the employment sector are just as much about ensuring equal opportunity as reservations in education are.
Dilip is not concerned about equality, he's concerned about 'eqvality'.
In india there is systematic oppression and discrimination based on Caste. In UPSC exam results when Interview was done by castes then the number given were very different. Each and every student from OBC got 50-60 , SC ST got - 35-45… and general students got 70-80.. those students who have done equally in written exam got numbers in interviews based on caste
Your jawline is good bro😁👽
I think it should be stressed that reservation is there not to give some people from a community to give some jobs , seats or facilities.. it enables them to be represented in every sphere of the society which otherwise would have been totally shunned to them. Its a very very important point that everyone misses.
You should have just asked him, how many people of his caste is in the waste cleaning profession? Just give me numbers.
One way, I prefer to shut these kinds of people is ask, why not more seats or more jobs?
Reservation is given as there is discrimination based on cast. Destroy cast system. No brahmin, no shatriya , no vaishya and no shudra. No caste means no caste based discrimination and then no to reservation. Dilip is the one who does wants his caste but not caste based reservation. He was saying there is reservations in jobs. But he missed the point that the reservation is only in government jobs. But how much government jobs are available in India???
9:52 Damn, that's a good point.
I agree with Vimoh that there should more than Reservation. There should be intermingling like intercaste marriages etc.
Recent example of discrimination : Patna High court favoured a decision for Assistant professor recruitment in which backlog seats that was actually for obc /Sc/St were merged in total vacancy & 10 percent of total were allotted to EWS category.
In my office some junior level staffs who are actually from so called upper segment of the society didn't wish or greet the officers ,who are in their eyes belongs to lower sections of society .
I got disappointed & depressed on multiple occasions. But kya karu sir Sehna padta hai kyuki higher administration me bhi upper caste hi hai , judiciary me ektarfa raaj hai .
Helpless feel karta hu multiple times.
I think Dilip means well but his sentimental look at the present issues are blinding him to the history or the root cause of the issue. It was a nice and respectful discussion and both of you had interesting points but though I'm also from a prevailed caste I totally agree with Vimoh's point mostly.
Also one must understand the difference between equality and equity.
This Dillip got decimated, with he's fake American accent, "eqvality"
He got to correct his basics on reservations and their percentage of allocation based on population by caste
Reservations to bare minimum hai. That is just a liberal move. Ye log to ro denge if a socialist state comes into place, when top 1% ki property redistribute ki jaegi.
The concept of redistribution of wealth is extremely flawed and happens only due to non-state actors interfering with the social life of a country’s citizens. You see India's Upper Castes have this habit of latching onto foreigners(Angels) to defeat their own(demons) as is evident from the history of invasions of India starting from Aryans, Greeks, Turks, Moguls and recently Europeans. Thus there was redistribution of wealth several times but did that evolve Indian Civilization into a progressive one compared to the developed countries of 21st century?
We must understand what is the purpose of a socialist state? Drag each other down or build everyone up after expending the same effort/sacrifices both cases?
India’s problem is not population, poverty, religion or a political ideology though they are effects of actual problem which is the MIND-SET of politicians and their goons towards developing India indigenously like Communist Chinese or Capitalist Americans. Right now, the pathetic state of India is such that almost all Indian politicians, businesses, scientists, professors, army top officials etc. are busy settling their children and relatives in foreign countries buying useless properties there to get into quota of investor-based immigration. If someone sneezes in Parliament or State Legislatures, they end up in America, Canada, UK, Switzerland, Singapore or other developed nations. All these politicians and top bureaucrats don’t have any incentive to make India develop indigenously quickly like China because they prefer to cut foreign deals and put the kickback money in foreign banks with their children. Also at many Indian schools and universities many students and their professors are working on solving other nations’ and foreign companys’ problems publishing papers, attending international seminars and adding the same to resumes so they get admissions abroad and/or secure better jobs elsewhere in the (developed) world. At least some of those university resources must be aligned to benefit India (Indian Jurisprudence, Corporations, MNCs, Indian entertainment, ISRO, DRDO and Governance of India).
In order to improve mind-set, India’s human capital must be skilled which in turn builds social, diplomatic/political and cultural credit besides generating financial revenues. Just as one sprinkles water on grass, we must utilize the sprinkler system of media (including news, entertainment, internet media) to soak/baptize/galvanize as many as possible so that they all understand what is meant by A KNOWLEDGE-BASED ECONOMY and its implications on globalization. Thus increasing the number of universities and their global rankings must be the focus of all intellectuals and NGOs of India now so that India has choicest man-power to work on not only latest sciences and technologies but also social and political reforms ultimately improving the overall standard of living of all and their families. When the overall standard of living of all communities is improved, then they will have time to discuss, debate, research and become more aware of their voting power inside universities and also outside in communities. For those who can’t pursue studies at Universities, there must be vocational colleges teaching them 21st century job skills so they either provide their services or start their own trades. Then there will be a smoother rebalancing of wealth in India with the upliftment of downtrodden masses especially those who migrating from villages to cities whatever may be their caste, religion, tribe, language, gender etc.
Such small countries like Singapore, Taiwan, Korea, Japan, UK and France can do such wonders in technologies and India with its vast population cannot do the same even with so called literacy and great religions? Because Indian Governments only concentrated on basic literacy for so long and have not been paying as much attention to the tertiary studies at Universities of sciences, technologies, engineering, medicine etc. According to 2022 US News report of Best Global Universities Rankings, here is how East Asia compares to South Asia with respect to the number of world ranked universities in Sciences, Technologies, Engineering, Mathematics, Medical sciences etc.
China(309)+Japan(111)+S.Korea(58)+Taiwan(33)+Thailand(13)+Vietnam(5)+Singapore(4)=533
India(93)+Pakistan(17)+BanglaDesh(1)+Sri Lanka(2)+Afghanistan(0)+Bhutan(0)+Nepal(0)=113
Now who are we kidding saying India is ‘Vishwaguru’ straddled by nations with no regards for a secular democracy? Indian Union with over 1390 million people have only 93 world ranked universities and the European Union with just over 750 million people has around 638 world ranked universities as per 2022 US News report of Best Global Universities Rankings. Innovation, Patents and startups appear to be directly proportional to the number of universities with world standard education in Sciences, technologies, engineering, mathematics, medical sciences, management etc. Therefore we must all make everyone understand what is meant by A KNOWLEDGE-BASED ECONOMY and ITS IMPLICATIONS ON GLOBALIZATION. Thus increasing the number of universities and their global rankings must be the focus of all intellectuals and NGOs of India now so that India has choicest man-power to work on not only latest sciences and technologies but also social and political reforms ultimately improving the overall standard of living of all and their families. When the overall standard of living of all communities is improved, then they will have time to discuss, debate, research and become more aware of their voting power inside universities and also outside in communities.
India’s biggest mistake since India’s Independence was striving to fuel growth by agriculture & mining (and their exports), roads, highways and seaports even after 73 years of Independence. This resulted in unorganized sectors of services with poor/illiterate/frustrated farmers & migrant workers in India (and even illegal Indian immigrants around the world) even after 73 years of India’s Independence. Criminal activities and road accidents are also on rise in India (and her neighborhood) due to migrant populations (accidents, corona virus, Nirbhaya, murders, mob vigilantism, terrorism, riots, fire setting, smuggling/human-trafficking are all examples of this cancerous migration/illegal immigration). Thus India has become a self-imposed colony for other nations supplying grains, meats, fish, minerals and other natural resources including IT slaves.
India being a nation whose population is comparable to China must also make as many technologies as possible indigenous simultaneously/parallel and NOT first foreign company do it and Indians do it slowly afterwards. Due to lack of highly educated man-power, foreign countries are being involved in many high-tech projects like semiconductors, cars, trains, planes, ISRO, renewable energies, trains, cars, smartphones, computers, laptops, gadgets, roads, airports, medicines, social-media, e-commerce etc. India-led & India-owned development is required for success of India. For that, India’s human capital must be improved by educating as many as possible at universities. However if we are satisfied with foreign companies setting up factories in India and then we loot India’s entrepreneurs, then it is neo-colonialism.
If you analyze and observe, the nations that are transitioning from the status of third-world to developing to developed nations have similar ways of life and they do not follow their religions verbatim though they strive to defend the same for political and economic gains. Just upgrading economic reforms and relaxing FDI laws won’t help achieve development. Besides Economic reforms, any nation needs waves of social and cultural reforms in parallel to catch up with China, USA, Japan or other developed nations. Many nations of South Asia carrying the weight of their bygone colonial history, had waves of social and cultural reforms pre-independence to unite their peoples against colonial rule. However after Independence, the social and cultural change has been rather slow in those nations. Many nations are still struggling to shake off the colonial mindset being passed on from generation to generation. India finally getting to an equal economic status with China will not happen without social, cultural and scientific reforms. Governments of elected large “developing” diverse, socialist, secular democracies like India might fail trying to be like USA or China without social reforms. Few small democracies may succeed (like Israel, UAE, Rwanda, Korea, Singapore, Taiwan etc) implementing reforms quickly and strictly. Even China had to go through social reforms as part of their cultural revolution before they became world’s technological super power.
Thus a very steady, careful and sometimes slow and cautious approach is required for a nation as populous, poor & diverse as India to succeed economically and improve quality of life/standard of living for its residents. And Indians (and their governments, NGOs, buddhijeevi, viseshagnanis etc.) must contemplate on what’s best for them from time to time and accordingly set their goals in line with the rest of humanity in USA, Japan, Korea, China, Singapore, UK or other Developed nations. However harsh it may sound, India must move away from being a herd of agrarian, mercenary and slave-trading hierarchical societies of castes and religions strengthened/formed by Colonial powers for nearly 1450 years to a cohesive, disciplined, qualified and healthy communities of intellectuals, post-graduates, high-tech businesses, armed forces and manufacturing workers keeping at home all discriminatory ideologies practiced at home like religion, caste, tribe, sect, language, region, gender, direction of region, zip-code, locality, dress-habits, food-habits etc.
@The Warrior of Atheism(No Libralism anymore) but then should the current generation be punished for the crimes that they didn’t commit?
No one is being punished. Not getting a job is not punishment. Being killed for sitting on a chair is.
@@vimoh hmm understandable, that’s a great point.
@@kalgandikota7075 China has not been Communist ever since like the 1980s
8:20 bro u r crystal clear with ur thoughts, nice!
He should get the facts about how 10% of particular castes occupy 90% of top positions in India.
The thing is these people don't know caste system itself reservation on all resources
Quickest way to end caste inequality might be decentralized govt and separate constituency to the SCs and lower caste. Give them political power and autonomy to uplift themselves.
Speaking English does not mean that you have mastered all the issues; these are the same people who have never faced discrimination. One of my friends belongs to the SC category, and yes, he is my best friend. I have seen my so-called upper-caste friends making jokes related to his caste, and I feel that he must have had to face or will have to face all this at every turn. I didn't really have much knowledge about this topic because, as you know, all this starts from your own home (but thank God, my family does not follow such discriminatory ideologies based on caste). Then when I saw the root cause and ground reality of all this, I understood that... talking is easy when sitting in an air-conditioned room. For those who have had to face all this for thousands of years and are still facing it... if they get reservations, it's not a big deal. Because we (meaning the upper caste) have almost 90% control everywhere... we don't treat them equally in interviews, and socially, you can ask how much respect we give... So it's better that we first understand the background. Vimoh is speaking the truth... this guy is only discussing reservations on college seats... he probably has no idea about the historical or ground reality... I am even sure that he has made friends in his life on the base of caste. That's why he is saying so much; otherwise, he also speaks about the discrimination that happens on the lower castes.
I am at the 10 minute mark and there has already been six ads. wth youtube!
I love how vimoh has maintained his calm and composure. Dilip just seems a lil too condensing in his tone to me tbh.
super discussion - i like how patiently and systematically --- and CIVILLY Vimoh dismantles all the usual arguments put forth for those who oppose reservation
if social structure is unequal... There is no equal outcome!!
I think I understand Dilip's point which is basically more of a financial aid than a reservation based aid.
I won't lie to you, I was pissed off when a friend of mine had 92% but didn't get the post he desired because one of the prominent factors was OBC and SC reservations, but then again I kind of can't blame the reservation system for trying to correct a mistake that existed for 1000s of years.
I think there is some merit to his points but I don't fully agree with Dilip's P.O.V
Both sides made good points, our reservation system's major flaw is we cannot determine how effective the system is(I mean we cannot say how many people so it feels like the deserved don't get the chance.
I stil support the system but I do understand the issues with the system
Financial aid is a very superficial way of looking at things. Underprivileged folks are financially not well-off because of deeper societal issues. As in the video, reservations don't try to solve individual problems. There are simply too many factors to even account for at an individual level. Accounting for all those factors to ensure everybody gets to a place they want to is utopia (and well, that's a place we can always only try to move towards). We can only solve things on statistical/large scales right now because those are the information and data that we have. Reservations are anyway made for representation, and not to ensure every single person gets a good college/job. For getting the latter, there's a ton of other problems and solutions that go beyond reservations.
It should be clearly understood that Dr. Ambedkar integrated concept of *Reservation* in Constitution on basis of _Equity_ and not _Equality_ . _Equality_ comes after assurance of _Equity_ is met on all levels in society, which is still not the case in India.
@@ani_boi but we've had reservation system for 70 years now, Can we estimate how effective has it been? If not then maybe, we should look for a better method of bringing equity, until then we should follow the reservation system.
@@warrior_of_liberation The issue is not with the system itself that general class people are denied access rather, I don't see a way to see how effective the system has been. Plus how do we know that the system is allowing all classes of people the representation and not that few SC ST and OBC who have been benefited from the system, using the position for themselves. (I.e. the children of the ones who benefited from the system using the system to get ahead when atleast for those few kids the playing field should be far better now)
@@warrior_of_liberation I'm not against the reservation system, I just want us to have a way to check the effectiveness of the system or else it's an ineffective method just put there in the name of helping the lower class without actually delivering it.
Although I do not agree with most of the points Dilip said but he said rightly that oppression is done ALSO by OBCs onto SC/STs, this is changing but OBCs are more vocal about it, and they do it openly as opposed to Upper class who do it secretly.
OH MY GOODNESS how does a 40 year old not understand the long lasting lingering effects of many centuries of caste based discrimination that has caused this immense disbalance of wealth and power!!!
Good discussion. One thing I won't agree with the suggestion reservations should be increased more than 40-50% from current level. Reservation should remain at present level till the eligible based on cast will get social upliftment. With gradual progress of this process they should be slowly decreasing the reservation percentage. They can monitor with many factors like Census data by people's occupation and other things.
You don’t understand how the caste system works. What reservation allows a candidate from the marginalised community is an opportunity to create an economic opportunity for themselves in a society, which has been for centuries been run by one dominant caste. For a marginalised candidate, problems don’t end with getting a good-paying jobs or having a house; their social standing continues to be at a lower starta because caste is more about mental state and those from the upper castes continue to feel/act superior - even unintentionally - because of the ingrained superiority.
@@VishakhaNS that's why I said population census is important from data only you could make any changes. I haven't said reservations are bad. I just said don't make it to more than 50% without data. From his perspective or my perspective, you are not able to decide how much occupation is being distributed in the current scenario across the castes. So, to see the condition of the mental stage of the mindset related to the caste system, you need to have rich data again for our size country.
Upper caste had 1000+ year 100 % reservation
Obviously if you get it's benefits you will like it.
I don't get its benefits and I like it.
@@vimoh what do you mean by benefit? This is Justice not benefit.
@@AnarchistDoc what do you mean by benefit? This is Justice not benefit.
@@greenpoison9342 I agree. You are the one who used the word benefits.
@@vimoh Aacha. I used the word benefit and baba Ambedkar did Justice
Caste system create a problem for hard working students as well 😢😢
Thanks to Hinduism
6:04 Mic drop moment
okay I'm at 9:00
The point of misunderstanding is privilege
Vimoh is right here.. Since historically oppressed people are in a worse background because of caste(not in our history they are in lower socio economic status because of their caste) we need reservation to develop a underdeveloped part of society.. I think that guy doesn't understand that there are people underprivileged because of their caste right now in our country
Reservation is bot reparations for past but its the tool to develop underdeveloped part of our society (Now don't say I'm a sc so I'm talking about reservation, I'm saying this because it is one of the go to replies of reservations opposers I don't have anything to gain with reservation except our country heading in a good Direction)
One doesn’t necessarily need to be an SC/ST to acknowledge casteism and the historically detrimental effect it had on the marginalised communities that continue even today.
Hey Vimoh,U have been fantabulous in smashing this casteistic mindset.Hats off to u brother.
The basic sign for a Casteist person to look reservation in isolation.... It is a socio-economic problem... when we say India is 4.1 trillion dollars... who has the most share in this 4.1 trillion. Govt. job is small part of it within which 20-25% is in actual allotted (most of them being 3rd and 4th grade emp. ). Why doesn't discussion happen on who gets govt. contracts, who gets petrol pump license... who gets liquor license... who gets temple shop contracts.... It's just a privilege to make noise about losing their benefits.
What a nonsensical argument. 95% of the Political leaders are from Backward castes and are forming the government and keep on stating all the top level government post are garnered by Brahmins and Forward castes is utter nonsense. Implement a law to have 95% reservation in all government jobs, rather than keep in cribbing. Neither intention nor Action.
If there are 100 seats in a college 50 seats are reserved for management quota... Why isn't anybody talking about this... So this brings us to only 25 seats reserved in 100 seats ..
And reservations are based on the population in the society...
the existence of caste, the acknowledgment of caste ,the act of taking pride in caste is itself discriminatory , reservation is just a tool to give power to the majorly powerless. to let them build a history to for their people to be capable taking pride in themselves and be free from socially inflicted inferiority .. but it not the complete solution total reformation of Hinduism i.e The Indic religious traditions will pave the way to total annihilation of caste .
Middle class and rich sc/st have no need of reservation
Blacks are only in minority in USA but here lower caste are in majority , have very low representation
Deelip is thinking with paradigm of savarna liberals.
Even I was under the impression that cast was a thing of the past!! It’s 2024 and only last year a Dalit went into a temple and it was closed for a long time for purification! 2 years ago in north Karnataka a Dalit falling was fined for a Dalit child going into a temple!! Even forget everything the Shankara Mutt head openly said that Modi will touch RAM’s idol and that’s why he won’t go to Ram mandir opening ….! I wonder how people deny the existence of caste system in India.!
This guy sounds exactly like Ronnie Malhotra from Anurag Minus Verma's skits
Sir can you give exact period of time since caste system is practiced?
Vimoh❤❤❤
Cry cry cry cry yr life away but reservation is gona be here for further 1000s of years with also added economical and finance based reservation. Savarnas just sit back and watch
Good conversation, Dilip was very reasonable. Anybody can put things into perspective from their point of view and still he was able to agree with you POV. Ideal kind of debate.
Dilip has no idea how reservations in education works in India. In reserved seats there are requirements of non-creamy layer certificate etc.
Vimoh interesting discussion,
The biggest problem I see is discrimination still there and the solution as you said more reservation.
I can increasingly see they are ashamed of their ancestor's behavior and making apologies to remove reservations.
But the other way around being from a so-called lower class person if I visit they won't allow me beyond the hall or a separate study room at the 3rd floor and lower floors.
I am exmepted to enter as I help the person to clear exams otherwise I am not allowed.
In some places when we just close the gate their parents will pour water on the floor and clean it.
So its a strategy they just say why I should suffer for my ancestor's fault.
As long as everyone turns atheist or rational this reservation should be there. The examples they bring are some tail events like you are settled in and why you need a reservation? Basically, i see only envy from this kind of people. They don't know if my future generation fail there is not a big community to help and move forwards.
I told him I won't give up reservation until they give up god and caste.
Why do we only talk about reservations at the higher education level?
Why don't we focus more on Primary and Secondary education where actually majority of cognitive development of a person takes place.
If caste does not determine competence then anyone who has access to good quality of education should be able to crack competitive exams whether Dalit or Savarna.
Govt. wont build more school, provide free education or improve the quality of school education (which will actually uplift the oppressed) but will instead dole of reservation for political gains and hence India will always remain a divided society entrenched with Caste.
Caste existed before Reservation. Reservation is the solution to casteism. Not the reason behind it.
You didn’t answer my question though.
The idea behind Reservation is to make the starting line same for everyone. Great.
Why not start early then? At the primary school level and build a solid foundation from there.
Why wait till a person has almost reached the cusp of adulthood and then try to equalise the gap.
We already have 50% reservation right? Even if we have 99% reservation this problem will not solve unless you tackle the fundamental issues. Rest you are intelligent.
The purpose of Reservations is to undo the damage done by caste based discrimination at all stages in society. Schools, yes. But also colleges and workplaces. I have talked about this in detail in many conversations on this channel. Find a playlist called Reservation and Caste and watch those. Thanks!
Is the rationale behind reservation is caste based discrimination, then Vaishyas and Kshatriyas should also get Reservations in educational institutions as their ancestors have not been allowed in the academic fields which were a stronghold of Brahmins. And Brahmins should get reservations in Army and Financial institutions as they also has unequal representation historically in these sectors.
Were they denied drinking water? Were they punished for trying to go into professions outside of what their caste said they should? Were they murdered for trying to grow a mustache? Or for riding a horse? Or for trying to get an education?
You don't seem to understand what discrimination means.
I never really thought about my caste until it was time for me to crack my entrance exams. I found out that one of my parents is an SC (we are middle class, not rich but also didn't grow up poor), got a caste certificate made, qualified at a really really low score than my friends belonging to the general category had to. Apart from that, my caste has absolutely no role to play in my life.
You are just special in this case. For many of your SC peer, this is their first crack at higher education!
You are lucky then.
Acknowledge your privilege and don't speak as if you are a victim of discrimination when people who are actual victims speak, even if you are of the same caste.
Wow ,caste system itself reservation on all resources.
really, spend some time with people how they will say they are proud baniya proud thakur etc how they acknowledge their caste . at that moment you will just be silent because everyone has a caste history and you will have none .or wait for your marriage , then you will see how caste will play a major role in everything in Indian society .
1:20 😂😂bhai konse nashe hai ye
Sindhis do practise casteism, have experienced it myself,
Maybe jab shuru shuru me aaye the tab camps me rehte the to caste ka bhoot utar gya hoga, lekin ab sab settle ho gye to khoob casteism krte hai
One issue I notice with all these intellectuals supporting caste based reservation. Although now there are no government jobs, so this debate is obsolete. However, think calmly. Being an 'Yuval Noah Harari kinda' liberal I tried to convince myself that caste based reservation is fair and should continue. But I couldn't. Because, for me the reality knocked my door too often to ignore. In past it was fair. But now, economic strength should be considered. I grew up in a poor Brahman house, I used to go for catering (low, daily labour work) when I was in college. My mom had worked for economically strong backward-class/scheduled-class homes so we can have 2 square meals. When the same people who kinda employed us paid 20% of fee that I used to pay at college and get seats which I couldn't in spite of having a higher academic percentage, I felt being punished for the sins of my ancestors. I am not poor anymore. So I don't demand reservation for my children, but if the reservation is available for the landlord who owns 20 out of 55 flats in the apartment I live in - i sure as hell oppose that reservation.
How many of the people from your community are really poor and working as a blue collar job person and see the ratio of the SC ST or OBC working as a blue colour job person then you will get what caste discrimination is, if SC ST or OBC person can be upper middle class or rich at some percentage whether it be so low so like that some percentage of general category or specifically brahmins can also be poor can't they which are actually in very low percentage as compared to the community. Reservation is not a rich making program it's a affirmative action for representation of the marginalised communities whether the person is rich or poor from marginalized community he will someday face discrimination not on the basis of physical but whenever he or she will face any interview it will not matter that he is rich or poor he will be getting less chance to get selected because he is from lower caste and if Brahmin person is poor also still if he apply for interview high chances are there he will surely get the job because all the businessman are brahmins and baniya only anthesis due to the reservation that so called upper caste got from past 3000 years.
There's always this, one poor Brahmin guy and a rich SC family. 😂
Tell me how many SC people have 20 flats to rent in India who are taking reservations, then talk.
I always see you upper caste people giving anecdotal evidence as if reservation has shifted the resources from upper caste to lower castes.
Rather than oppose reservation, you should oppose caste based discrimination. That would be more moral for you. That's what as a SC, I can say that.
Reservation is mainly about representation it's not economic welfare program
Guess what, I was almost offered a role in a drama here by the maharashtrian community group (majority brahmins) in the US. They were really happy to have me and watch my work. Then, after the 1st script reading, at the end of the day, just while hanging around before packing up, I was asked my surname.
I've never heard back from them. Ever.
If you ask the NRI have he read or understood the preamble or if any of his teachers have tried to teach him in school the meaning of preamble? even when the preamble was there on his school book before the table of content but still nobody has taught him that shows why most of the people misunderstood why there is reservation.
It's about bringing equality of status on social, political and economic levels i.e and providing equal opportunities.
Those who have different views I will say file RTI and collect data from your college you will see the representation is skewed for professors same is true for even IITs and IIMs type educational institutions, representation will be skewed for secreatry and joint secretary rank, and so on. These RTI will bring the data which screams the fact that there is caste based discrimination going on even at the higher levels but these discriminations will be silent in nature.
I personally dont have any problem with reservations anywhere but i have some ideas in my mind and also i want to share my personal issues here , hope you’ll not mind about this , I’ll sound kinda pathetic but I can’t express my problem without sounding like that so about the idea, like after a sc/st/obc caste family becomes stable enough (i have a friend who belongs from SC caste , and in his family there is already 3 doctors and they are well stable) their caste should upgrade to a general catagory! Ya I understand there is a lotta caste based discrimination already in our country but i have seen many general caste people who can’t even run their family properly. Lemme give an example of myself , and please dont take this in a wrong way , like I belong from a lower middle class family and I’m general but as my father is an business man , for his pan card , I couldn’t get any benefits even though earning is not even enough in my family these days , my parents are barely managing my education and family . I mean you already know many businesses went in losses due to covid and all too but our business went in loss for many years now and we couldn’t even show that our family income is not that good to government because we are already in so much loan that even if there’s some earnings it all goes to loans so my family is hardly managing . And here when i gave my JEE i got 85%ile nearly last yes but I couldn’t even get into a proper clg thats why i had to take a drop , and this year I’m so burnt out of studies and so messed up , i wont be again will be able to get into a decent college where as my some friends with reservations are already attending a decent clg with 80%ile , also i have seen some of my friends gettin into a decent clg with 70%ile and even if i get 95%ile this year , i still won’t be able to get into a NIT or a decent college. The gap is too big . And about the fees problem , my family already is struggling and i also can’t apply for tution fee wavier in colleges as im general caste and family income is shown above the requirements amount on papers but in reality income is no where near that. I feel so guilty about these things thats why my family have to face this and also how my family will be able to manage nearly 5lac+ college fees (even if I don’t stay in a hostel) for my engineering. I feel so much pressure on me and sometimes i feel its my fault that i was unworthy of getting good percentile in my exams . I had 93% on my boards but I couldn’t apply for any scholarships coz of my family income shown in the documents. I feel so bad about myself that i feel it would be better if i never existed at all , at least they won’t have to go through so much monetary pressure just to provide me a decent education 🙃. And still I don’t have any problems with other reservations but when i see even after working hard and even if i get 95%ile in clg , won’t be able to get into a decent clg and with so much lower marks some of friends with reservations are studying in NIT . It feels like my hard work didn’t paid of .
Well the video does talk about personal vs social. As for caste upgrades, do you think a SC family starts getting treated like General when their social status improves? That part is not in the government's hand. It's a Hindu issue. Reservation is not an economic upliftment scheme. It's about social upliftment. We UC people only see the job and money side of it, not the dignity side
@@vimoh ya i understood about that part of the video properly and absolutely there will be some individual problem but socially this reservation system is beneficial and i support the reservation system myself . Still sometimes in some cases this personal problems get so much suffocating for me that it makes me question myself like "why i have to go through this , and why i can't get these facilities myself?". I mean absolutely i understand that it's so hypocrite of me to think like this when i myself support the reservation system where lower caste and people with low monetary background get facilities . Maybe it's a human trait to feel this way sometimes. And absolutely i agree with your statement in the video . And i also understand that how the situation is here in India .
Bro agar mujhe Allen mein jane ka mauka milta aur mere parents ko at least ek govt. Job hoti , mujhe zarurat nahi thi reservation ki , I could have cracked general cut off.
@@Shirokokun Bro it is all about representation don't you know that in IIT professors from sc st background are not appointed by saying that they are unqualified or less qualified even when they are meeting all the required criteria .
Bhai shi hai saari baat, sc sc ko gen bna do, or general kyu unko choose krne do which one they want " brahman, rajpoot or baniya".
Or low and middle claas brahman ko bhi change krdo (bhangi, chamaar, etc etc)
Or jb unke yha 3 doctor bn jaaye, tb change krenge.
Isme to koi issue nhi h na bhai
"i am from US you can tell by my talk blah blah" Damn that's so cringey and why is he faking the accent so much 😂😂😂
Take refrence of last year IAS list and see their cast why interview happens
8:20 Where is the equality of the outcome in india ,,, how you ensure , when the outcome itself A to Z discriminatory ,,,,,,
Jo log caste based reservation ka oppose karte hain , woh log caste sytem ka oppose kyu nahi karte?
Equal distribution of resources ki demand kyu nahi karte?
Equal distribution of resources will lead to destruction of resources and civilization, there are the people who don't even know how to utilise the resources and they just misuse them, And as a result, due to reservation, this power is going to the wrong people, leading to corruption and instability.
OMFG how does he not see it? Not knowing about caste is in itself a privilege!!!
Mr Dilip is very good man he has contributed rupees 50000 to human with science human with science
Please change the title of video, he was not 'sawarna', but an Sindhi Hindu
Ek to yehi nahi samajh aata mujhe entitled log ko apna opinion dena itna important kyon lagta hai 🤦♂️. Koi protest karta hai, usmein bhi ye bataenge, ki aise karo vaise karo.
as if kal protest karne ke liye police ke sath sath... Inse bhi permission leni padegi 🤢🤢🤢
16:52 this.
Why does Sindhi’s never let their kids marry out of their community ? Even sindhi’s have castes , there are about 28 sub-castes in Sindhi community. I had a Sindhi gf , her parents only probm was the caste . I know everything about them .
Looks like the person on other side is not happy about the reservation, may be it affected him, but he is totally oblivious to the fact that for at least 5000 years cast system has affected entire group of people and all their ancestors. Also, he is failing to understand that the mere existence of reservation is because of cast system. Destroy cast system then there won't be any need for reservation. I also believe that the reservation should not be eternal, but as far as there is existence of cast system in the society, reservation should be there.
People say no one is casteist these days. I have one question for people like this, has their parent/family members ever went on looking for the groom/bride for their sons or daughters without looking at their cast? answer yourself truthfully. Also, the entire equality of opportunity is applicable only when there is no implicit bias in the society, and that is not possible in current Indian society with totally biased last names to start with.
Also, I believe the reservation should strictly be based on historical or current oppression and not just because, like OBC and etc, so that way reservations are kept relevant and not become a tool for politics.
There is one more popular gimmick so called "upper cast" use, if a Dalit is not poor, they should not be given reservation. I have a story for them, whenever my friend used to bring his friends to his home his grandfather used ask that friend what his cast is, and not if he is rich or not. If he is Dalit, he would not allow that friend inside Because modern casteist won't be this direct but still be discriminatory without being obvious. This is why reservation is needed. There is a recent, and very insightful remarks given by supreme court of India, that "reservation is not a scheme to eradicate poverty"
Reservation is needed, what is not needed is the vote bank politics behind it. If the governments had actually worked for empowerment of the suppressed sections of the society, be it women, muslims and Dalits then the need for reservations for sure would have decreased by now, but what is happening that there is just a demand for more and more reservation and nothing effective is actually done to empower these communities, which makes the reservations as missused remedies. Reservations are needed, but what is more needed is the actual efforts to empower such people instead of engaging in vote bank politics for 7 decades now.
Bhai aapki Live Stream kab hoti hai mai aapse debate karna chahta hoon. Mai Koi Bahut Jyada Gyani aadmi nahin hoon par mai apne tark rakhna chahta hoon aapke samne. Or Aap kisi Spritual Science ko mante hain jaise ki Meditation. Mai bhagwan ke hone ke tark rakhunga. Hindi me jyada comfortably hoon mai.
Saturday at 8 pm. channel is vimoh live
discrimination manifested, promoted and implement by a Religion. The very religion non-discriminated reserved castes are the executors of discrimination of oppressed. better you both should dwell for some period in a settlement of untouchables of villages & rural india, so that both we experience of your coversation
How many times do these people whine about reservation in temples for priests. It's 100 % and much bigger industry. And more anti science.
first why women reservation given this will solve all questions
for 3000 years the educatiion was only for brahmins, kshatryas, vaiishvas... n they r complaning on 75 YEARS OF reservation given to OBC, SC, ST...
Helpfull conversation
My father always comes up with his argument that “If you are giving a seat/job to a person who has scored much less marks than the expected cutoff solely because they belong to some oppressed caste, do you think the quality of service that person will be providing be top-notch? Will you trust a doctor/engineer who has scored lesser marks than the expected norms but still got a job because of his caste, with a job? Is it really solving the social inequality issue or is it just making people lazy to not put complete efforts because reservation is there and is ultimately bringing the economy and literacy level of the nation down"
To this question I never really had an answer so pls help me out with one.
We have highly qualified and educated doctors and engineers who sell snake oil and believe in garbage superstitions. And we have really smart Dalit Bahujan Adivasi scholars and professionals not only in India but also abroad. I have never seen the point of the "merit" argument. Merit is an excuse that savarna people use to justify their racist attitudes.
@@vimoh Wow. That's the best response to this argument. I am actually embarrassed at how simple and trivial the answer to that was. Thank you.
I have a two friends, both upper class, one did MBBS in government school because he had very good score in entrance, and other friend who did MBBS in private school because he had too low score to get to government school. Interestingly, later one is very popular and known best for his practice but former one struggled to survive so he took a job in some private hospital. Did it really matter what their scores were when it comes to actual job. It is same for every job, all that matters what you do when you get a job and not what your entrance score or GPA. So a Dalit candidate who can not perform at his job will suffer, just like bright candidate (may be an upper class) who can't perform in his job. Education is just a medium.
I think there are two corrections that are needed to be made in reservations.
1: Imposing cut off equal to general category. The argument for this change is simple, if cut off is similar to general category it would be easier to weed out lazy candidates and make SC, ST, NT, OBC competitive . It would also lessen the hatred for reservation system.
2: Imposing a creamy layer. Govt bodies must strictly impose a creamy layer according to current socioeconomic data. It would ensure that dalit students from poor familes would get seats whereas privileged SC, ST, OBC candidates would compete with general category.
You missed the whole point of video.
Cast system discrimination is everywhere in India, even out of India where Indians are living.
All closeted casteist start their statements with "I dont believe in castes but..."
yahi to hai videshi arya 😂😂😂😂
5-10% logo ne so called 90% logo par jurm kiya aur wo sab chup rhe
First n initial comment...NO ONE who has that accent will ever be mistaken for an American. There are at least 6 different American accents. His is distinctly none of those 🤣. Okay I'll shut up now n listen to the rest of the video.
Equality of opportunity only😊😊😊😊😊 ye h kya