Hey everyone! I just wanted to clarify, I just wanted to give my opinion: I am not anti-black woman by any means. I constantly talk about black people being represented all the time. But I wanted to have an honest conversation about this! We can agree or disagree, I’m super open to hearing opinions, but keep it respectful in the comments! Saying that one shouldn’t talk about this is tone deaf, we should be able to have conversations and hold ourselves accountable and keep things real.
Cynthia is phenomenally talented, but she strikes me as a highly reactionary person. That is to say, she can't help herself from responding to drama, even drama that is way beneath her. I do still think she owes the fan that adjusted the poster an apology. That person has no ill intent, and Cynthia's IG story singlehandedly sent them a wave of hate and death threats. Not cool.
There have been POC Elphaba’s on stage before, both on Broadway and in the west end afaik. I mean still a massive deal that Erivo is her for the movie, but it’s not the first time the character is being played by a Black actress, that credit would go to Saycon Sengbloh in 2005 technically, though she was a standby, or Alexia Khadime in London
yeah Cynthia is not the first Black actor to play Elphaba, but it’s still a huge deal that they cast a Black woman to play her in the movie. but correct me if i’m wrong, i don’t believe there has ever been a Black performer playing Elphaba both *full-time* and *on Broadway*. West End, yes, but on Broadway, the Black women playing Elphaba have been only standbys/temporarily filling in :(
@ Oh definitely, it’s a very cool very big moment! There’s been latine actresses as Elphaba on Broadway, but not a Black actress as like a full-time headliner casting afaik, just stand-ins/understudies as far as I can figure.
@@melissavbruno yea initially she came across off putting to me in press interviews but the movie turned me into a fan straight away- thats what raw talent does
Multiple things can be true at once. 1. Cynthia Erivo is a very talented actress who killed the role of Elphaba. 2. She has faced a lot of backlash from people and a lot of it has been genuinely racist. 3. She lashed out at an innocent fan who didn’t deserve it. I wish she hadn't made those comments about the fan poster, but I don't think she deserves to be canceled over it and I don’t think anyone should avoid the film because of it. People make mistakes and do inconsiderate things. Especially people who work in a high pressure emotionally intense industry like the Performing Arts.
Cynthia is wildly talented and has a beautiful voice, but I do not like her as a person. She has a long and storied history of mocking and making disparaging remarks about Black Americans. There are dozens of articles and numerous threads online chronicling her comments. She never apologizes, either; just waves her comments away and turns up her nose as though we should "get over it." She comes across looking as though she thinks that she is somehow "better" than us, which is strange considering as a Black person she herself would have faced challenges in the industry of people's biasness and or prejudice, etc. Interestingly, despite her seemingly low opinion of us, she has no problem with portraying us in films.
@OsheyBaddest When? (Serious question). And even if she _did_ eventually apologize, based on her immediate _initial_ response any apology would have not been genuine.
@@Rose_Bride Have you never been mad at someone and just said something out of anger and then apologised ? If you say so, I would not believe you because that is one of the most human experiences, making a mistake, showing humility and then apologising especially when standing up for yourself
@@thescarletwarlock9941 If you are asking if I have ever disparaged other races or mocked them due to cultural differences, then the answer is no. Because this is what my comment was referring to; her mocking comments towards American Blacks. Are you saying that she was "angry" at us and _this_ is why she has said the things she said and does? Because she _herself_ has never alluded to any anger at us. She basically said it was an inside joke between her friends. That doesn't sound like anger to me. And by the way; if I _did_ say something that could be interpreted as offensive to another race, I would apologize. What is the big deal in an apology if you are truly sorry? ESPECIALLY if I had a job as an actress where public perception of me DIRECTLY affected my money.
To be honest Cynthia has said that she had a human moment and I can see her perspective as we are only seeing the one side of things and not what’s behind the other. I think she might have convinced herself subconsciously by combining the “is your cat green?” with the heartfelt recreation of the movie’s poster and had a freak out. I think she just was under some sort of pressure that made her take things personally without looking into things rationally
This. Her mentions have probably been innundated by rac1st Wicked fans tagging her maliciously. Her making the mistake to assume this was another attack is just indicative, that a lot of people have been attacking her and her ability to assume the "best" of off strangers has been severly eroded.
@@moustik31 she's also been omitted from other wicked promo stuff and dealt with racist bullshit wen she played the Blue Fairy. It was a sraw taht broke the camels back scenario. I've had more than my share.
The ‘cat’ comment is made to every Elphiba, it’s inappropriate but some people have always thought it was funny. I don’t know if it’s better or worse that they weren’t just singling her out with that comment
As someone in the Broadway community, let me clarify a bit about the "Great Comet" situation (I may get some things wrong, but these are the broad strokes.) The show was very racially diverse, especially for being based on the great Russian Novel "War and Peace." For example, in the original off-Broadway production the lead role of Natasha was played by "Hamilton" alum Phillipa Soo, who is an Asian American actress. For Broadway the role was played by Denée Benton, a black actress who talked a lot about her excitement at playing, not only a traditionally white character, but an innocent, lyric soprano character (which isn't historically cast with a black performer.) The other lead of the show, Pierre, was originally played on Broadway by superstar Josh Groban - and his casting was a big deal in that this was a very experimental show that was taking a big risk on Broadway and having a name performer like him was instrumental to selling tickets. When Groban's contract was up, he was replaced with performer Okieriete Onaodowan, a black actor who was in the original cast of "Hamilton." Everyone thought he'd do a great job, but the producers of the show were not shy about the fact that, without a name in the role, it was likely the show would see diminishing ticket sales, and be forced to shut down. Just as Okieriete was about to take on the role producers learned that Broadway superstar Mandy Patinkin, a white performer, was willing to play Pierre. The producers said they felt terrible, but felt they needed Patinkin to keep the show running. They spoke with Onaodowan who seemed to understand the situation, and agreed to step down early. And then certain members of the Broadway community, including Erivo, took to social media in an uproar that a black performer was being replaced by a white performer. The producers were getting so much heat, and full on facing cancellation, that they acquiesced, told Patinkin that they had to rescind his contract, and brought Onaodown back to the show which, because he wasn't a name (though incredibly talented) was believed by many to be the primary reason the show closed shortly after.
So fake outrage canceled the show. All the people complaining should have bought a ticket. I hope one day we can have real.race conversations in this country and not the constant woke, fake outrage, canceling cycle
i wanna add that if my memory serves correctly, the great comet producers essentially didn’t promote Okieriete Onaodowan / the show with him as the lead before or during him taking over the lead role. like, NO promo in comparison to the usual promo when a new actor steps into a lead role in a broadway show. this was seemingly so that they could then blame poor ticket sales as the reason for firing/replacing Oak with the white guy (who was also already successful in hollywood, so even non-theatre people recognized his name).
@@comradekayvon That's very likely... I honestly don't remember, but the press certainly wasn't anything like for the other performers who played the role (including when the author took over right after Josh left...) I don't know how quickly they knew that Patinkin was available, so I'm not sure how long Onaodowan was cast and they "wanted him out..." That would make for a good Wait in the Wings episode...
the poster thing does seem like an overreaction when taken out of context, but i can understand where she was coming from. i think when you have a lot of trauma with a certain thing, you can become hyper aware and hypersensitive to any “threat” you perceive as that thing. i’ve definitely had overreactions and blow ups that seemed ridiculous to others, but it was because they were missing the context of the rest of my life experiences that lead to that moment. that being said, it’s on us to learn skills to help us regulate our emotions. i still struggle with this and i can be very reactive when i feel attacked, but i’m trying to get better with therapy and pausing before i automatically react to things.
I agree. Being hypersensitive to small things due to trauma is very relatable, and it's probably why most "highly sensitive" people seem to have some sort of trauma related to that that was much bigger than the thing you see them react to. Of course, her Instagram post was still not okay, and that fan didn't deserve that kind of backlash, and Cynthia owes that fan a massive apology. This is why ranting privately and taking the time to process the situation rationally and gain perspective before publicly talking about it is crucial. It's okay to be upset about someone who is well-meaning and did something small, but to cause harm for that innocent person for it isn't cool.
She's a classic Broadway diva, just like Patti LuPone (who is famously proud and hard to work with) or Bernadette Peters. Broadway leads are famous for being dramatic and passionate and sometimes complete jerks. Interesting how all these WHITE actresses are celebrated for being messy and talented, but when Cynthia does the same thing it's a huge scandal 🤔
I think it’s safe to say race and racism plays a role in her public perception, but I think it’s also key to note that Patti LuPone and Bernadette Peters had the good luck of not being messy publicly on social media. Their “messiness” is all hearsay passed around in theater circles. Also, as you say, they are messy but still celebrated. I’d say Cynthia Erivo is also messy but still celebrated as an artist.
I think it's more about the sign of the times than just racism, look at how people treat Lea Michelle who is also known for being a diva and is hated for it. Both Lea and Cynthia are praised for their talent and capabilities but dragged on for their divaness. I think it's just a trait people aren't putting up with in the new wave of theater, there's not much we can do about past icons and like a previous poster says they usual keep their messiness off social media which helps the internet flood of backlash.
@pepsigirl283 i think this is exactly it. I've actually seen more people react badly to fun facts about these actresses (ie their drama queen moments). I know I think less of Patti lupone for those same reasons. Not saying that there hasn't been racism, bc there 100% has, but it's also fair to say people think less of that attitude. I mean, look at joss whedon as another example. People used to think you could earn that attitude, now people don't think that way.
I agree, it’s really unfair to blame Cynthia for the closing of Natasha, Pierre & The Great Comet of 1812. The controversy surrounding casting-stemmed from the broader industry struggle with representation and “untraditional casting.” That discussion isn’t new. Similar issues arose with Miss Saigon when Jonathan Pryce, a white actor, played a Vietnamese character and won a Tony for it. It was incredibly hard for Asian actors to get roles, and the industry has since been trying to right those wrongs. That actually kick started Audra McDonald’s career as she play Mrs. Snow, right out of Juilliard, won her first Tony. That said, Comet was no different. Mandy Patinkin, a Russian Jew, was cast in a role that more accurately aligned with the story, but the situation was mishandled at a production level. Blaming Cynthia for systemic issues and decisions she didn’t control is shortsighted. Now, to your point about Cynthia being compared to Ariana Grande-it’s not an accurate or fair comparison. Cynthia is already a major star in the entertainment industry, albeit in a different space. Here’s why: • Theater: She’s a Tony Award winner for her breathtaking performance in The Color Purple, which also starred Jennifer Hudson. She’s received numerous other theater honors, including the Drama Desk Award and Theatre World Award, solidifying her as one of Broadway’s elite talents. • Music: Cynthia won a Grammy for The Color Purple cast album and has performed at some of the most prestigious events, including multiple appearances on the Tony Awards and the Oscars stage-entertainment’s biggest night with millions watching. At the Kennedy Center Honors, she sang not once, but twice in the same year, paying tribute to Earth, Wind & Fire and Dionne Warwick-just as Beyoncé honored Barbra Streisand when she received the same distinction. • Film: She earned two Academy Award nominations for Harriet-one for her portrayal of Harriet Tubman (Best Actress) and the other for co-writing and performing the original song Stand Up. • Television: She’s received an Emmy nomination for her portrayal of Aretha Franklin in Genius: Aretha and has performed on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon, and Late Night with Seth Meyers. Cynthia is in no way a “breakout” artist or emerging talent. She’s already a well-established powerhouse who’s on her way to legendary status, much like Audra McDonald, Stephanie J. Block, and Kristin Chenoweth. As for Idina Menzel, while she may have wider pop culture fame thanks to Frozen, she doesn’t belong in the same tier as the above legends. Her reputation as a “diva” often overshadows her talent, which doesn’t quite measure up to Cynthia, Audra, or others in that category. Here’s a quick look at Cynthia’s awards and recognition: • Tony Award for Best Actress in a Musical (The Color Purple) • Grammy Award for Best Musical Theater Album (The Color Purple) • 18 wins and 57 nominations, including Oscars, Emmys, and Golden Globes This isn’t meant as criticism but as encouragement to rethink how you’ve presented Cynthia. She’s not new or “breaking out”-she’s already a star in every sense of the word.
she already took this back in a recent interview 😭 she said she was just having a human moment & shouldve just called a friend instead of posting this on the internet
But she doesn’t seem to feel bad. And people keep telling her it was AI generated so she does feel justified for her response. Which, if it was AI, I get the reaction. I don’t like AI either. It’s unethical. But it doesn’t justify sending bloodthirsty fans to one individual. I understand that she’s human and has feelings. She is allowed to be hurt and set boundaries as a person. Like she said, she should have just sent that to friends and the only way she can “fix” the situation is by issuing a public and private apology to the artist. Don’t get me wrong, though, I don’t feel like Cynthia is the worst out of the two.
Cynthia is fantastic, but she definitely has an insufferable ego that she does not keep in check. She's lashed out at fans for things like this before (someone fancast her as a muse in a nonexistent live action version of Hercules, and she got mad because she was too good to be part of a chorus.) I think some of it probably does come from feeling like she has to fight to get her flowers as a black woman. But it's also not uncommon behavior for broadway headliners. You kind of have to be high on your own supply to do live theater like that.
I think you missed a major point and that is the racial slurs and comments that have been thrown her way over the years. If I’m not mistaken she was being called a gorilla a few years ago in one of her movies roles plus she has probably had to face A LOT of racism as a dark skinned Black woman outside of that comment. Do I think she handled it well? No, but I think she is very sensitive about this because the role kinda directly coincides w the plight of Black women and she seems to connect w the character a lot which makes sense why she would be so sensitive about it. Once you see the movie you’ll see the irony in those UK publications only posting Ariana too lol. It’s multi layered. It’s true that she’s a pop star but it’s also true that racial bias is a reason they barely had Cynthia on the covers of those publications.
As someone who used to really struggle with my own African facial features and how they were presented in photos, I’m sensing some deep internalized racism throughout her post // her mistyped ramble of a text is not only hella tone deaf (as there are a multitude of Black and brown people around the world right, especially women, who are facing genocide, apartheid, and gender violence) it is kind of heartbreaking because it sounds like she’s upset that her eyes were covered and now the focus is on her beautiful African nose and ruby red lips (which matches closer to the original Broadway poster - which she knows!) I think in a human moment she could be projecting her frustrations of misogynoir media coverage in Western Europe and the racist comments online onto this photoshopped poster. But I also get the sense that, like for many of us Black womenfolk who were called derogatory names throughout our schooldays and careers, she still has some deep insecurities around her appearance (even though she is a stunning bald African GODDESS of song and soul) I think it was a misstep that revealed some things about her, and I think calling out her inner monologue can be done WITHOUT calling her an “angry black woman” or “narcissistic” (she is neither) BUT there is also a meta narrative that Arianna was paid $15 million for wicked while Cynthia, the main character and vocal backbone of the movie was paid only $1 million. Which has gender, race, and color-coded celebrity politics painted ALL over the canvas . . . Cynthia is going thorough it and it’s sad to see
It was way over the top. It seems to me that they originally wanted to put out a poster that mimicked the original Broadway poster and SHE refused because she wanted her whole face to show, and when the fan edit went viral it proved that was what people would have preferred. It comes across as being livid at being wrong. She took out ALL her frustrations on someone helping promote her movie in a way she didn’t like, and her rant was unhinged. No one brought up which parts of her character’s body were green but her, and to say something like THAT while saying that editing the poster to cover her eyes is the most disgusting thing she’s ever seen is wild. I watched the movie and enjoyed it, she and Ariana did a great job, but they’re going to Snow White the movie if they keep it up. She’d do better to create a fake account with a fake internet name and anonymous profile pic and rant that way. Part Two is going to flop next year if this continues.
Also, the major media publications like CNN, Rolling Stone, etc., say that Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande were paid the same amount, but I haven’t seen what that was exactly. Cynthia is the lead while Ariana is the bigger star, and they seem to have similar screen times, so it makes sense.
Ariana is driving more sales and deserves a higher pay. Erivo is actually turning viewers OFF and is a liability. I do agree that she is insecure about her looks and the poster highlighted her african features without the balance of eyes. But that is her face, thst's what it looks like. It wasnt altered, just slapped a little lipstick on. She has a trigger response to perceived slights, when this wasn't even a slight.
I have a strong feeling that this role took on a different significance for her, as it involves someone who is often blamed, ignored, and generally unappreciated, simply because of issues related to color. There were also many people mocking her during the reveal, with terrible montages circulating. In this context, she chose to look directly at the camera in this picture. That’s why I believe she completely misunderstood the purpose of this poster and made a poor choice by expressing it in that way. My opinion And I really don't think is about jealous...
Cynthia is black and British as am I, I know for a fact she would have experienced some discrimination on her come up in the theatre world, and i sense she projected her past experiences onto the fan poster. I think she was triggered from her past & that's what made her misinterpret the fan's good intentions. Also, Cynthia should be supported by British papers as she's British! UK media does downplay or ignore black women's /people's success at times, which is why many black British actor's go to the U.S to reach the top of their profession (Daniel kaluya and John Boeaga)
I feel like she’s older and has put in so much work being literally one of the best lowkey under the radar for such a long time that it’s probably hard for her to view it from the perspective you’re talking about. I mean she truly does deserve to be able to speak out and does deserve way more respect but you’re also right she needs to get out of her own way to main stream success.
3:24 In 2017, Natasha, Pierre, and the Great Comet of 1812 (hereby shortened to Comet for brevity) needed to replace Josh Groban as Pierre because his contract was up. Pierre is the male lead of the show, and a multi-instrumentalist. As a show, Comet didn’t have traditional mass-audience appeal: it was weird, campy, meta, strange, and more than a little confusing (and this is coming from someone who has been a die hard fan since 2013’s ART bootleg). Comet was known for its color-blind casting, diversity, and homegrown cast, as many of the roles were filled by the same relative-unknown actors from the first productions years prior (except, notably, Josh Groban). Comet was lauded for being very experimentalist (breaking fourth walls, anachronistic with its historical time period) and had completely refurbished the layout of the theatre it was in. All of this was very expensive, so Comet needed a star with a built in fanbase. Enter Okieriete "Oak" Onaodowan, an actor best known for his supporting role in Hamilton. Oak was given a relatively short 5-week stint and told that he needed to bring in the tickets that would keep the show running. Here’s where the drama comes in: Rumors abound that Oak was ill-prepared for the difficult role, not being off book or able to play all the instruments. Production had chosen Oak based on the fervor of Hamilton fans and assumed where Oak went, the Hamilton fans would follow. I don’t know how much credibility I give to those rumors, but regardless, after a lukewarm reception and not a noticeable increase in ticket sales, Oak is pushed out of the production two weeks into his run, three weeks earlier than planned. In a bid for a bigger star, Oak was replaced by Mandy Patinkin, a well known and respected white actor. This fueled issues on many levels: Mandy was significantly older than previous Pierres, exacerbating the age gap between himself and the eventual love interest Natasha; Mandy was a theatre staple replacing a young Black man’s big break; Oak was given no time to recoup losses and an impossible deadline; and should a very costly, rather niche show really rely on one actor’s rather minimal fanbase to afford the cost of production? Cynthia Erivo, as well as many actors and fans, chimed in with criticism of the production for not giving Oak a chance, and then immediately choosing the established white actor. The criticism caused Mandy Patinkin to also leave his contract early, and no other actors wanted to get involved in the scandal, leaving Comet’s composer Dave Malloy to jump in as Pierre for the remainder of the very short run.
I seem to remember that Oak was given paid leave and was supposed to return when ticket sales improved. Also, they had Brittain Ashford take paid leave too and had Ingrid Michaelson take over for the same reason.
I honestly think she had a human moment. Yea, it was silly to get angry from many of our perspectives (including mine), but we don't know what Cynthia has gone through to lead her to behave in such a manner. Nonetheless, she gave a stellar performance. I like your nuanced take on it.
All this aside, she was absolutely brilliant in the movie. Wonderful portrayal of the character, amazing singing voice, and I really appreciated her advocating for practical effects for Elphaba’s skin. I know this movie was tough to film for the leads in particular, and the defensiveness definitely stemmed in part from how hard she worked.
Honestly, with how much people talk about that fan made poster, you would think Cynthia was just making comment after comment and posting nonstop about it. She made one post. One. And she even said that she probably should have talked to some friends before making it. We as a society really need to learn to stop making things bigger than they are. Let that one IG story post go, yall
For real. The same people saying she should have stayed silent are the ones bringing it up over and over again. Can’t THEY shut up on social media and talk to someone irl? Or should we ignore the glaring hypocrisy that they don’t hold themselves to the same standard as celebrities. I honestly feel people were just waiting for a reason to dislike her because it’s not that serious,
I don’t believe that Cynthia is a bad person for the Wicked Poster IG story. I personally have put it on the shelf. I wish her no ill will and I hope she’s doing well. 😊💚
I think it's gotten a deserved amount of backlash considering a star came for a literal fan that did nothing wrong and was actually celebrating the film. As a person that lives off fan engagement, that was wild. And I don't see anyone still bring it up except for in an expose type video like this
It's not the post, it's her saying it was the most offensive thing she's seen, as if some edited fanart could compare to the actual horrors going on in the world. It's her ego and delusion that struck a cord, not that she was offended.
The thing with the poster is at first I thought it was dramatic and only because the person who made it didn’t have intentions to erase her or anything, they were a fan of the franchise and just making the original poster so yeah she was really reactive and it was silly. I also found the tiktok comedies mocking her about it a bit funny. But then it got to a point where all the comments had like this hidden line of extra hate and i’m like ok it wasn’t THAT serious. I started to be concerned by all the videos mocking her in an overly hateful way and then comments referring to her as “the green one” or “the bald one & Ariana” was really bothering me. Like a lot of people used this moment of her being dramatic to openly hate on her and get away with it the way they already wanted to in secret. And then I felt for Cynthia and could feel for her perspective of things because I could genuinely see it go from oh a little joke to people almost bullying her. Also found it ironic considering themes in the movie n stuff
I feel the same way when it comes to Ari and Cynthia. In fact, I think their perceived flaws added to the film. The performances, direction, set design, the chorus and dancers, everything was absolutely amazing
@@kokolatte825 I don't like musicals but the interviews with her and Cynthia were horrifying to watch. I'm not a fan of Ariana Grande because she defended an abuser.
It’s kind of crazy how even still she’s getting all this hate and while I kind of get where the fans are coming from I also understand why those edits would piss her off.
She is undeniably talented, and she was great in the movie. But, she has made disparaging comments about Black Americans, and hasn’t addressed it to my knowledge. So… I personally don’t care for her.
I understand where she was coming from. There has been so much hate over POC casting in typical white rolls. I understand why she was on the defensive.
Her point still stands though. She is being a bit erased. She's the main character of the movie, yet Ariana is the one mostly talked about it seemed. Both actresses did incredible work. She just seems like someone who reacts then thinks. It's not the end of the world and I don't understand why this poster situation became this
This sort of downplays a lot of what the fandom was doing...we need to just admit that some times the public, including the fans, are toxic and do not know how to engage with this stuff in a healthy manner that respects themselves as well as the actors. Some fans need to be reprimanded. If people feel that is entitlement, oh well. Cynthia is one award away from being an EGOT. She is the reason that this show can claim to have an Oscar nominated actress in the lead role.
You must not know how big Cynthia is in Broadway and her impact the last ten years in her worldwide exposure. Cynthia has been in the Hollywood Scence for over the last six years. She has had several scandals not putting her in the best light. Romantic entanglements like Ariana. She is British she is top billing she is the main character of a co lead story. So she has the right to feel in her hometown slighted by her community if she sees them focusing on Ariana. I think this has been building over time for her. She definitely went about it the wrong way and took her anger out on the wrong person. Ariana Grande has been equally supportive of hyping her co Star because Ariana is an OG theater kid. This is a once in the lifetime chance for Ariana. Cynthia does this for lunch😂 Her selective choices on how she played Elphaba were subtle and brought a different vulnerable and emphatic take on the character. Her last scene shows everyone the powerhouse talent that she is in Wicked part one. I’m not even a fan of her like that, but her talent can’t be denied, her fight to be recognized in Hollywood has been shaky. Ariana has the same situation she has now gone mainstream and proven to the public her true musical chops and reinforcing her great comedic chops from her Nickoldean days to SNL. I’ve followed her OG musical performances when she sang Broadway covers, performances with her cast outside her kid shows before she even became a pop star ⭐️ so this is a full circle moment for her. I hope they really get the recognition they both deserve they both truly respected all the previous sources from the Wizard of Oz, Gregory McGuire book Wicked, and then the OG Broadway 🎭 play of Wicked with Irina and Kirsten.
On the West End (UK production) there has been a black Elphaba and their have been black stand-ins and understudies for Elphaba ( someof which did get to preform) on Broadway, but there has never been a black woman actually cast as Elphaba on Broadway
The first time I heard of Cynthia Erivo was when she sang “Fly Before you Fall” for the movie Beyond the Lights. The song still gives me chills. Her voice never misses! She was great in Harriet and when she sang the song “Stand Up” for the soundtrack, she was great as Aretha Franklin and sounded amazing singing her songs. She is an incredible talent. That being said she seems to be kind of a drama queen and a diva , but that is to be expected from an actual drama queen (dramatic actress) and an actual diva (a leading stage singer).
Her unwarranted reaction towards that poster caused that fan to forever have this media that they love so much tarnished along with all the death threats they had received because of Cynthia and Cynthia refusing to fully own up. I’m sure she’s a good person and her struggles are real but her projections gives off big mean girl
Society hates outspoken women, especially when they’re a person of color. When Cynthia reacted to the fan edit, I had to take a step back and reflect. As a member of the alabaster disaster brigade, I don’t know what it’s like to be a Black woman being constantly compared to white beauty standards. Cynthia mentioned in interviews that she never thought she’d be chosen to be Elphaba. She thought people would call her ugly & think she’s not good enough before even getting to hear her. Cynthia was surprised & touched that the new poster showed her face & that was the main focus. When Cynthia saw the fan edit blacking out her face to look more like the original, it triggered a wound for her that she didn’t expect. I’ve been in love with Idina’s Elphaba for decades & Cynthia paid tribute to her while making the character her own in a really powerful way. I was overwhelmed & deeply moved. I’m immensely grateful Cynthia was chosen. I hate that the UK erased her from the ads & promo. I hope people respect her moving forward. I can’t wait to see what she does next.
Respectfully, the double standard that many humans portray for other famous humans of a certain race is obnoxious. Cynthia in an interview about the IG post and photo edit commented (apologized) stating she has been protective of the character and should have handled it in another way. Yet, that does not take away from the fact that her image was being overshadowed by the fan edit (which was okay, I support artistic expression). However we must realize that Cynthia as famous and brilliantly astute as she has become, is human with similar feelings like us. She poured herself into this role (herself and Ari referring to themselves as 'husks' at the end of a day on set) so forgive her for being offended by removing her image from work wherein she was catapulted into the atmosphere while acting and singing. Forgive her for being a person of a different race who is opinionated about socio-political concerns which affects her. Forgive her for standing up for herself. I invite you to redirect the anger of accountability to those famous (public figure type) humans who are silently connected with the erasure of another human race.
Cynthia is the first black Elpbaba FOR THE WHOLE WORLD to see. That would obviously cause a greater response than ones from plays that EVERYBODY in the world will not see.
@@kokolatte825that’s the difference. Unless a stage play is recorded and distributed via a major international company it is unlikely to have the global reach a movie will.
Being erased? Everytime I look at the tele or my phone or the side of a bloody bus on my way to work her face is there! Sick of the sight of all the wicked stuff. So erased? Sadly not.
The whole thing makes me feel so conflicted because on the one hand, the only thing I knew about her before the drama was "she's the new Elphaba" and nothing else, so the drama was basically like my first introduction to her, and it did NOT make a good first impression (especially since I'm half-Black and would be much more sympathetic if she were talking about some of the racist lash back from her getting the role rather than complaining about a relatively harmless fan edit). So it felt like hearing "there's a new up and coming celebrity in town!" and you go "oh cool!" and then they make a dramatic entrance by spitting in some random person's face. Generally not a good look. But on the other hand, I really did love her performance after watching the movie. Like, not only is it cool to see a Black woman become the face for such an iconic character and star in what might be this year's biggest blockbuster, but she is an incredible actress and singer, and was one of my favorite parts of the movie. She basically blew it out of the park, so my impression of her as an artist is very high! But as a person? Not the most positive. So it all just feels like a bit of a mess.
She's very talented and did amazing in her role. Honestly I don't see why she's facing a lot of hate. Sure her comment about the poster might've been overstepping to some people, but why is she receiving more hate for reacting negatively to a poster than her co-star who literally got into a relationship with a married man?
Erivo's performance was probably the best thing in the movie - but I can't stand that chick in real life. she's got the vibe of she's just LOOKING for a reason to be offended in situations
This has to be by far the most even view on the situation. You came at it by both sides professionally in a way that many don't you pointed out the issues, what me may not know behind the scenes and her history.
I held my thoughts until seeing the movie. Cynthia did amazing but both her and Ariana were wild on PR. I love your take but wish you had done at least some research prior. There have been many black elphabas for example! Aswell as Cynthia is extremely well known in the Broadway scene. Still love the video overall.
As to the Wicked poster, I can see where she is coming from, but I also do not blame a Wicked fan for editing a poster to look like the broadway version. I feel what should be critiqued was how it was edited. The shadows and coloring made everything look darker and the hat seemed crooked, but then again, it was just a fun quick edit. The fan did not mean any harm by it. The fan doesn’t deserve any hate. I am not mad at Cynthia either. There seems to be trauma related to her response and it sucks that she blames the wrong person because she can’t risk blaming the production companies and PR team.
The hat’s shape was literally unchanged; it’s crooked in the original poster. There’s literally nothing wrong with this fan edit, the whole point is to make it look like the original which it accomplished
Tbh she had to watch for month as people mocked her (asking if her 🐱 was greeen) or were being genuinely racist towards her. She lashed out at the wrong person yes but she was silent for a good while just putting up with that. And no one should have to put up with something like that
I feel like she’s definitely misunderstood, she definitely was being erased and even in promoting the movie they exclusively used ari for alot of the brand deals when the story is mostly about elphaba
CE knocked it out of the park in the role. She was incredible and should get an Oscar nod. One thing worth noting, however, is that despite the deeper/darker themes of the story, this is supposed to be a fun movie experience. Elphaba and Glinda are fictional characters. The movie poster is of the fictional characters. Yes, CE and AG are playing those characters so they're on the poster, but ultimately they are still characters and we live in an AI/photoshop world. When CE took someone's excitement over seeing the characters on the big screen and made it personal, she came across as overly dramatic, out-of-touch and, frankly, ridiculous to many ticket-buying movie-goers. There are fans so turned off by her they won't go to the theater to see the movie now. She's been in entertainment long enough to know how PR works - and that Hollywood is a viper pit. If the studio believes she's screwing up the press tour with outbursts that alienate fans (and potential fans), they won't put her front and center for the rest of the press tour and risk more gaffs (and thus more money). They'll push AG out front because she has more PR experience and is better at playing the game.
Producers probably are glad they casted someone who “goes against the grain” and “defies adversity”. She definitely fits the role but all for the reasons that should’ve been positive
Saw the movie this week and have stayed away from the whole pr. Now that I’m seeing these, and having been in both marketing and entertainment- I’m very concerned that the cast will be “cancelled “ before part 2. My personal thoughts are- anyone involved in this movie needs to understand is the movie, the musical, characters, and the fans are much bigger than they are. The chemistry between the two women is amazing and both are extremely talented and a joy to watch perform.
It's a campaign of hate from the same old haters who can't live without dragging others down with them. If Cynthia is such an awful person why does everyone who works with her, love her and say what a wonderful person she is? If she is such an awful person, would she have created her own company to support young black actresses? If she was so awful, would she spend so much of her time teaching young actors? Also, she is relatively new to Hollywood and has to find her feet so she admits that she is learning from any mistakes she makes. As a person who doesn't believe in pretence, she speaks her mind and remains true to herself, rather than choosing to embrace the fake 'say what people want to hear' approach adopted by so many in Hollywood. By doing this she, of course, isn't going to please everyone but I have a huge amount of respect for her in choosing to stay true to who she is and by wearing her heart on her sleeve. Don't ever let them bring you down Cynthia. Ah Ahhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaa!!!
UK ELLE, UK VOGUE...reputable UK Outlets had Cynthia alone, and that's great. Three notorious tabloids (who were brutal to Grande before, if you did your homework) did their disgusting shtick. Daily Fail is the nickname of one of those 3 trashy papers. They dunk on actors, politicians, royals....everyone. It's not UK media, it's UK TABLOIDS. UK did cast black actors in Sheakspirian (white) roles half century ago, while USA had a meltdown over Little Mermaid a year ago. Of course, if you made up your mind about UK - nothing can be done. Can't wait to see the movie, definitely! Cheers!
Cynthia is sooooo talented and I just have to laugh at anyone trying to make her feel low or trying to destroy her and her career. Always letting ppl know no weapon that is formed against her will prosper 😭.
She is highly talented however in the poster situation she reacted emotionally without understanding that the person who made it was a super fan of Wicked. Lack of understanding of the fan base. The wicked fan base is much bigger than just the movie. It started as a book then a musical and now a play. She does not own the character.
I love this series. I'm reading all four of the Wicked books right now.I read them every year for my birthday. This whole thing would have been great. But,cynthia Has been so negative about her own movie. because we have the same name. It turned me off completely to going to see the movie because I keep hearing my name so negatively In everything about the movie. I don't even want to see it now.
I think Cynthia overreacted a bit, the fan that remade the poster is a Wicked fan who didn't like the promotional poster and wanted to give it the looks of the original musical poster. He just covered her eyes and brushed her lips with red color. I don't see the harm on that. -.- To make it a live action version of the original Broadway poster, no one is trying to erase her... -.- About your questions of if ever was a black Elphaba as far as I know no, but nowadays we have a black Glinda which is weird to me 'cause you know the mainstream media always has portrayed Glinda as a white blonde girl or woman depending on which adaptation you're looking at. You just gotta adjust your thoughts on certain aspects but we can tolerate and accept changes with time, right? And about her complaining of media erasing her, I think the way you're thinking: it's not that media wants to erase her it's just that outside musical theatre fans she is not that well known worldwide, so obviously they're gonna pay more attention to Ariana as she is a global popstar, she just released her new album amidst of recording Wicked. So yeah, right now she's in the public eye besides of the enthusiasm of her fans for her comeback as an actress. It's not at least from my perspective intentional in any way to erase Cynthia. But only big artists like her knows what happens to her and her ego...
Also i'm going to have to disagree with the points you made at the end. I feel like people are always trying to silence black people in particular black women and she has the right to view her opinions and its not really sabotage when shes consistently being treated poorly.
I hope not. I am soooooo blown away by her version of Defying Gravity and I'm not that girl. Full discloser- I read the book which definitely deals with racism and I have seen her live at Elsie Fest and had a MOMENT when she sang "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" it's on TH-cam
I think the reaction to her insta story was waaaaay to exaggerated, people called her all the names and someone who overreacted and then overreacted themselves. The jokes they still say about her being erased are soooo annoying!
That's my chat the internet is so hypocritical and just want people to hate, they call people out on certain things but then go and do the exact thing like huh
I've literally read comments from people who don't want to go see the movie just because of what happened with Cynthia. Not to mention that there's also people who don't want to go see the movie because of the interviews and because the movie is too "woke" for them and too demonic according to a few people comments I managed to read xd
hey friend just wanted to quickly point out the typo in Cynthia's name in your title! pretty hard to notice but wanted to let you know so you can fix it :) thats all!! hope this doesnt come off as rude
I 100% undersand Cynthia's reaction. It makes me sad, how people refuse to give her grace and forgive her for not realising the fan meant it in a "positive" way. I mean, Trump is literally president: rac1sm won! I bet, her mentions on social media must have been filled to the brim for MONTHS with vicious rac1st attacks, memes, caricatures and pictures. Instead, people are acting as if there is no valid reason or context for her very emotional outburst. 🤦🏾♀️
She could have just not made a massive scene over a harmless edit and people would just watch the movie and enjoy it... She has a chip on her shoulder and it does show.
I really thought I'd be more biased against her take since her ridiculous poster reaction and how borderline insane her and Ariana have been in interviews. But both did a great job, highlights of the film. Overall I didn't love the movie, felt overly long and a bit of a lackluster ending considering it's not just a intermission but a whole ass sequel coming up. It was fine though, just needed a few extra rounds of editing on the script and film.
Isn't it even problematik that she have to consider her behavior in that matter? I mean, sure, if she would be white it wouldn't Phase her as much as it did but i'm unsure if she would get the amount of back lash as she did, if she had spoken out the same way about it in the former mentioned hypothetic.... I mean the harmful stereotyp "ang4y Black women" is still a thing isn't it? I am sincere here, cause I am "white", so what do I know about the reality of life of black woman though
The erasure wasn’t on the publicists though, if fans are removing you from a photo? And there have been Black Elphabas on the west end in London. Broadway has yet to cast a Black woman but there have been about 3 who went on stage as standbys
I would be upset if my Pay was not equal to my coworkers if my role is the lead role ect her talent speaks for itself if trump can be president and all the other actors can have an ego she gets ALL PASSES ON ALL ACCOUNTS THERE IS NOTHING GOING ON ABOUT HER! SO STOP!
I actually get where Cynthia is coming from about the poster situation. It's like can we not edit things without people's permission. This is a big deal for her and someone just edits her whole face.
the poster editing is honestly such a non-issue. the original still exists, and the edit itself was very inoffensive. its not even like the edits intent was to “erase” her specifically either because ariana’s face is also obscured in it.
Honestly, I’m not a fan of her. She rubbed me the wrong way and that probably won’t go away for a while. But I do believe she’s sick. I think her and Ariana are both anorexia sisters. I think they both suffer from ED. Usually when two women are suffering from it, they feed into their illnesses, it is a very strong, but unhealthy bond when two people come together to feed into their ED. It would explain why they cry all the time. They’re constantly crying. Trust me when you’re not eating anything can make you cry because deep down inside you’re starving, but you’re miserable because you’re not eating and you’re torturing yourself because you’re scared of food and just look at them, their weight has changed immensely since the filming of the movie to now. I hope they can get help, might be best if they don’t spend time together until they both get healthy or else one of them can cause the other to rebound
A few corrections: Elphaba has been played by black actresses in many different productions! Just to name a few: Saycon Sengblog, Brandi Chavonne Massey, Lilli Cooper (understudies on Broadway), Emmy Raver-Lampman (tour understudy), Dan’yelle Williamson (Chicago understudy), and Alexia Chadime (principle Elphaba on the West End). There's a lot to be said on lack of racial diversity in Wicked's principal roles - like, prior to Cynthia on screen, only Alexia has played Elphaba full-time - why have we never had a main black Elphaba on Broadway? ridiculous at this point - but there is precedent to Cynthia's casting.
Second: Okay, how long do you have lol? So Great Comet is a niche show and the drama was super complicated, you're fine for not knowing all the details! Basically, the show was based off of War & Peace -- a very small section of War & Peace, which is an insanely long and convoluted book. It's a weird show. So, so fun, but very weird. From its inception in 2013, the show's casting was deliberately diverse; understudies of all different races were cast for each role, Denee Benton played the lead role of Natasha on Broadway (which had been played by a mixed-race Asian woman Off-Broadway), and the main role of Pierre had been played by two white actors before the casting of Okieriete Onaodowan ("Oak") as a replacement Pierre for a limited run. I emphasize that-- limited. Meaning, like, he was an actor with some name-recognition in the Broadway community, stepping into the role for a limited time. This is pretty common! (We've seen the same thing with shows like Little Shop, Waitress, etc. - when the original actor steps away, they have to cast a big name to bring in ticket sales.) Except the show wasn't bringing in as many tickets as they needed to stay afloat. Like, this wasn't Oak's fault, and no one was blaming him... but considering Josh freakin' Groban was playing the role previously and driving a ton of sales, yeah, there was going to be a drop. Put simply, the show needed to cast a big name in the title role. Mandy Patinkin - a white actor - has a lot of general name recognition, and the show believed he'd bring in those tickets. Going from two white actors to a black actor to a white actor again really wasn't something the producers THOUGHT about - like, black Christines have been cast on Broadway, but that doesn't mean there can never be another white Christine. People really took issue with them cutting Oak's limited engagement short to bring in Mandy - with the proposed idea that he'd resume the role and finish out his run once Mandy's engagement was finished. This was just to keep the show afloat, otherwise... well, Oak wasn't finishing that run either way, because the show was headed for closure fast. Not to get into gossip, but there was... talk about Oak. People did say he didn't come prepared for the role of Pierre... he couldn't play the piano or accordion, which was needed for the role. Like, he had time to learn, but he just... either didn't, or wasn't able to? He waned to "re-imagine" the role as a character who didn't play instruments, and it's like... that doesn't work within the score? He also didn't talk to the directors about this. A lot of drama has come out from behind the scenes about Oak not being prepared for the role and having a lot of creative difficulties with the director, which... I mean, it's been years, it's whatever, but it sounds like there were def reasons behind his replacement. "Poison Oak' makes sense in context, as members of the cast were really caught in the middle of this drama. It really blew up, and turned into a whole mess. Like, there's no sane way to explain everything that happened, but... the long-and-short is, Cynthia had nothing to do with the production! She didn't really know what was going on behind the scenes. She didn't need to get involved... or start attacking actual members of the cast, like, GIRL. It's okay! Just stay out of it! Like, she's hardly the first person to get into drama on Twitter, but it did damage her online reputation unfortunately.
It has nothing to do with her race, it is her behaviour. The same as Meghan Markle, stop blaming their behaviour on the British Media, they are not the only ones reporting on it.
I am sorry but as a black woman as well, I do not know if I could have been standing all the racism… back in 2023 a lot of people used AI to make Ariel white and photoshopped as well to erase Halle. Cynthia has been persecuted for playing a character who’s literally green for 3 years. But also yes the way she said it without any context may have came off very aggressive but yes she’s being erased a lot but it’s mainly the only thing she’s said and she probably won’t do it ever again… Also the fan did the edit by saying « I fixed the poster » meaning that seeing her face was very much the problem and for someone being bullied a lot that must trigger a lot of trauma… and the person who made the poster did post a lot of tweets and dmd people saying it made them famous 💀So they’re not totally innocent at all I do agree with you on the Great Comet controversy, however it is crazy because when a black actor/actress takes on a white role they get the most backlash but when it’s the other way around we are always dramatising and that is so saddening… The Wicked broadway poster depicted characters that were hidden because they were meant to be played by any actors that would take on the roles, however the Wicked The Movie poster is very specific to Ariana and Cynthia so they both should be shown and not hidden… However, I believe in 2007, Elphaba has been played by a black actress but people still bully black actors for playing a green character. It’s not the first time they’ve been trying to sabotage the movie they said the Ariana and Ethan relationship would ruin it, Cynthia being black would ruin it, people have been doing it all along so at one point people say big things our of anger and it is to be called out but not blamed and bullied for it is so annoying how much work black women or even women have to put into to appear or look good
Thiiiiiiiis! My thougths exactly. I wish, people had been able to understand but that would have meant to see the world from her pov, and apparently, that's too much to ask.
I don't think that the editor was hiding her face because they thought it was problematic. They just did it to resemble the original Broadway poster more closely. They didn't seem to manipulate much of her facial features other than giving her a smile.
@@ThePrincessCH It’s the way they put it mainly as « fixing it » not even making it closer to the OBP but only fixing it because it was wrong and the main thing they did was not showing her face when the poster clearly is meant for HER Elphaba and ARIANA’S Glinda
@@moustik31 Same! Some people are just saying « i wouldn’t have done that » or « She’s a drama queen » but never know what she went through and don’t like her showing humanity and individuality, try thinking that not everyone lived the same life as you did and people won’t react the same to something that does not sit right with them
Hey everyone! I just wanted to clarify, I just wanted to give my opinion: I am not anti-black woman by any means. I constantly talk about black people being represented all the time.
But I wanted to have an honest conversation about this! We can agree or disagree, I’m super open to hearing opinions, but keep it respectful in the comments!
Saying that one shouldn’t talk about this is tone deaf, we should be able to have conversations and hold ourselves accountable and keep things real.
👏👏👏
Cynthia is phenomenally talented, but she strikes me as a highly reactionary person. That is to say, she can't help herself from responding to drama, even drama that is way beneath her.
I do still think she owes the fan that adjusted the poster an apology. That person has no ill intent, and Cynthia's IG story singlehandedly sent them a wave of hate and death threats. Not cool.
There have been POC Elphaba’s on stage before, both on Broadway and in the west end afaik. I mean still a massive deal that Erivo is her for the movie, but it’s not the first time the character is being played by a Black actress, that credit would go to Saycon Sengbloh in 2005 technically, though she was a standby, or Alexia Khadime in London
Didn’t know that. Good point
THANK YOU !!
yeah Cynthia is not the first Black actor to play Elphaba, but it’s still a huge deal that they cast a Black woman to play her in the movie. but correct me if i’m wrong, i don’t believe there has ever been a Black performer playing Elphaba both *full-time* and *on Broadway*. West End, yes, but on Broadway, the Black women playing Elphaba have been only standbys/temporarily filling in :(
@ Oh definitely, it’s a very cool very big moment! There’s been latine actresses as Elphaba on Broadway, but not a Black actress as like a full-time headliner casting afaik, just stand-ins/understudies as far as I can figure.
she ate tho i didnt think i was gonna like her based on the slander campaign shes been facing on the internet but her talent is undeniable
Same, tbh I have never heard her sing and i got CHILLS when she sang the first song Elphaba sings and of course the last. She is crazy talented
Ate? That person hasn’t ate in a long time…
Honestly criticizing her reaction to the poster is valid. Other than that I've only seen people praising her, no "slander campaign".
@@melissavbruno yea initially she came across off putting to me in press interviews but the movie turned me into a fan straight away- thats what raw talent does
@@BarryBobbinsbruh if you don't get yo azz back to stan Twitter where you came from 😂
Multiple things can be true at once.
1. Cynthia Erivo is a very talented actress who killed the role of Elphaba.
2. She has faced a lot of backlash from people and a lot of it has been genuinely racist.
3. She lashed out at an innocent fan who didn’t deserve it.
I wish she hadn't made those comments about the fan poster, but I don't think she deserves to be canceled over it and I don’t think anyone should avoid the film because of it.
People make mistakes and do inconsiderate things. Especially people who work in a high pressure emotionally intense industry like the Performing Arts.
Cynthia is wildly talented and has a beautiful voice, but I do not like her as a person. She has a long and storied history of mocking and making disparaging remarks about Black Americans. There are dozens of articles and numerous threads online chronicling her comments. She never apologizes, either; just waves her comments away and turns up her nose as though we should "get over it." She comes across looking as though she thinks that she is somehow "better" than us, which is strange considering as a Black person she herself would have faced challenges in the industry of people's biasness and or prejudice, etc.
Interestingly, despite her seemingly low opinion of us, she has no problem with portraying us in films.
She did apologize 💀
@OsheyBaddest When? (Serious question). And even if she _did_ eventually apologize, based on her immediate _initial_ response any apology would have not been genuine.
@@Rose_Bride Have you never been mad at someone and just said something out of anger and then apologised ? If you say so, I would not believe you because that is one of the most human experiences, making a mistake, showing humility and then apologising especially when standing up for yourself
@@thescarletwarlock9941 If you are asking if I have ever disparaged other races or mocked them due to cultural differences, then the answer is no. Because this is what my comment was referring to; her mocking comments towards American Blacks. Are you saying that she was "angry" at us and _this_ is why she has said the things she said and does? Because she _herself_ has never alluded to any anger at us. She basically said it was an inside joke between her friends. That doesn't sound like anger to me.
And by the way; if I _did_ say something that could be interpreted as offensive to another race, I would apologize. What is the big deal in an apology if you are truly sorry? ESPECIALLY if I had a job as an actress where public perception of me DIRECTLY affected my money.
Jesus like she isn't black herself like what🤨 hope this isn't true
To be honest Cynthia has said that she had a human moment and I can see her perspective as we are only seeing the one side of things and not what’s behind the other. I think she might have convinced herself subconsciously by combining the “is your cat green?” with the heartfelt recreation of the movie’s poster and had a freak out. I think she just was under some sort of pressure that made her take things personally without looking into things rationally
This. Her mentions have probably been innundated by rac1st Wicked fans tagging her maliciously. Her making the mistake to assume this was another attack is just indicative, that a lot of people have been attacking her and her ability to assume the "best" of off strangers has been severly eroded.
@@moustik31 she's also been omitted from other wicked promo stuff and dealt with racist bullshit wen she played the Blue Fairy. It was a sraw taht broke the camels back scenario. I've had more than my share.
The ‘cat’ comment is made to every Elphiba, it’s inappropriate but some people have always thought it was funny. I don’t know if it’s better or worse that they weren’t just singling her out with that comment
As someone in the Broadway community, let me clarify a bit about the "Great Comet" situation (I may get some things wrong, but these are the broad strokes.) The show was very racially diverse, especially for being based on the great Russian Novel "War and Peace." For example, in the original off-Broadway production the lead role of Natasha was played by "Hamilton" alum Phillipa Soo, who is an Asian American actress. For Broadway the role was played by Denée Benton, a black actress who talked a lot about her excitement at playing, not only a traditionally white character, but an innocent, lyric soprano character (which isn't historically cast with a black performer.) The other lead of the show, Pierre, was originally played on Broadway by superstar Josh Groban - and his casting was a big deal in that this was a very experimental show that was taking a big risk on Broadway and having a name performer like him was instrumental to selling tickets. When Groban's contract was up, he was replaced with performer Okieriete Onaodowan, a black actor who was in the original cast of "Hamilton." Everyone thought he'd do a great job, but the producers of the show were not shy about the fact that, without a name in the role, it was likely the show would see diminishing ticket sales, and be forced to shut down. Just as Okieriete was about to take on the role producers learned that Broadway superstar Mandy Patinkin, a white performer, was willing to play Pierre. The producers said they felt terrible, but felt they needed Patinkin to keep the show running. They spoke with Onaodowan who seemed to understand the situation, and agreed to step down early. And then certain members of the Broadway community, including Erivo, took to social media in an uproar that a black performer was being replaced by a white performer. The producers were getting so much heat, and full on facing cancellation, that they acquiesced, told Patinkin that they had to rescind his contract, and brought Onaodown back to the show which, because he wasn't a name (though incredibly talented) was believed by many to be the primary reason the show closed shortly after.
Okay
So fake outrage canceled the show. All the people complaining should have bought a ticket.
I hope one day we can have real.race conversations in this country and not the constant woke, fake outrage, canceling cycle
i wanna add that if my memory serves correctly, the great comet producers essentially didn’t promote Okieriete Onaodowan / the show with him as the lead before or during him taking over the lead role. like, NO promo in comparison to the usual promo when a new actor steps into a lead role in a broadway show. this was seemingly so that they could then blame poor ticket sales as the reason for firing/replacing Oak with the white guy (who was also already successful in hollywood, so even non-theatre people recognized his name).
@@comradekayvon That's very likely... I honestly don't remember, but the press certainly wasn't anything like for the other performers who played the role (including when the author took over right after Josh left...) I don't know how quickly they knew that Patinkin was available, so I'm not sure how long Onaodowan was cast and they "wanted him out..." That would make for a good Wait in the Wings episode...
the poster thing does seem like an overreaction when taken out of context, but i can understand where she was coming from. i think when you have a lot of trauma with a certain thing, you can become hyper aware and hypersensitive to any “threat” you perceive as that thing. i’ve definitely had overreactions and blow ups that seemed ridiculous to others, but it was because they were missing the context of the rest of my life experiences that lead to that moment. that being said, it’s on us to learn skills to help us regulate our emotions. i still struggle with this and i can be very reactive when i feel attacked, but i’m trying to get better with therapy and pausing before i automatically react to things.
I agree. Being hypersensitive to small things due to trauma is very relatable, and it's probably why most "highly sensitive" people seem to have some sort of trauma related to that that was much bigger than the thing you see them react to.
Of course, her Instagram post was still not okay, and that fan didn't deserve that kind of backlash, and Cynthia owes that fan a massive apology. This is why ranting privately and taking the time to process the situation rationally and gain perspective before publicly talking about it is crucial. It's okay to be upset about someone who is well-meaning and did something small, but to cause harm for that innocent person for it isn't cool.
Therapy never worked for me
She's a classic Broadway diva, just like Patti LuPone (who is famously proud and hard to work with) or Bernadette Peters. Broadway leads are famous for being dramatic and passionate and sometimes complete jerks. Interesting how all these WHITE actresses are celebrated for being messy and talented, but when Cynthia does the same thing it's a huge scandal 🤔
I think it’s safe to say race and racism plays a role in her public perception, but I think it’s also key to note that Patti LuPone and Bernadette Peters had the good luck of not being messy publicly on social media. Their “messiness” is all hearsay passed around in theater circles.
Also, as you say, they are messy but still celebrated. I’d say Cynthia Erivo is also messy but still celebrated as an artist.
Maybe we shouldn’t be okay with anyone acting badly to others, diva or not
I think it's more about the sign of the times than just racism, look at how people treat Lea Michelle who is also known for being a diva and is hated for it. Both Lea and Cynthia are praised for their talent and capabilities but dragged on for their divaness. I think it's just a trait people aren't putting up with in the new wave of theater, there's not much we can do about past icons and like a previous poster says they usual keep their messiness off social media which helps the internet flood of backlash.
@pepsigirl283 i think this is exactly it. I've actually seen more people react badly to fun facts about these actresses (ie their drama queen moments). I know I think less of Patti lupone for those same reasons. Not saying that there hasn't been racism, bc there 100% has, but it's also fair to say people think less of that attitude. I mean, look at joss whedon as another example. People used to think you could earn that attitude, now people don't think that way.
I agree, it’s really unfair to blame Cynthia for the closing of Natasha, Pierre & The Great Comet of 1812. The controversy surrounding casting-stemmed from the broader industry struggle with representation and “untraditional casting.” That discussion isn’t new.
Similar issues arose with Miss Saigon when Jonathan Pryce, a white actor, played a Vietnamese character and won a Tony for it. It was incredibly hard for Asian actors to get roles, and the industry has since been trying to right those wrongs. That actually kick started Audra McDonald’s career as she play Mrs. Snow, right out of Juilliard, won her first Tony.
That said, Comet was no different. Mandy Patinkin, a Russian Jew, was cast in a role that more accurately aligned with the story, but the situation was mishandled at a production level. Blaming Cynthia for systemic issues and decisions she didn’t control is shortsighted.
Now, to your point about Cynthia being compared to Ariana Grande-it’s not an accurate or fair comparison. Cynthia is already a major star in the entertainment industry, albeit in a different space. Here’s why:
• Theater: She’s a Tony Award winner for her breathtaking performance in The Color Purple, which also starred Jennifer Hudson. She’s received numerous other theater honors, including the Drama Desk Award and Theatre World Award, solidifying her as one of Broadway’s elite talents.
• Music: Cynthia won a Grammy for The Color Purple cast album and has performed at some of the most prestigious events, including multiple appearances on the Tony Awards and the Oscars stage-entertainment’s biggest night with millions watching. At the Kennedy Center Honors, she sang not once, but twice in the same year, paying tribute to Earth, Wind & Fire and Dionne Warwick-just as Beyoncé honored Barbra Streisand when she received the same distinction.
• Film: She earned two Academy Award nominations for Harriet-one for her portrayal of Harriet Tubman (Best Actress) and the other for co-writing and performing the original song Stand Up.
• Television: She’s received an Emmy nomination for her portrayal of Aretha Franklin in Genius: Aretha and has performed on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon, and Late Night with Seth Meyers.
Cynthia is in no way a “breakout” artist or emerging talent. She’s already a well-established powerhouse who’s on her way to legendary status, much like Audra McDonald, Stephanie J. Block, and Kristin Chenoweth.
As for Idina Menzel, while she may have wider pop culture fame thanks to Frozen, she doesn’t belong in the same tier as the above legends. Her reputation as a “diva” often overshadows her talent, which doesn’t quite measure up to Cynthia, Audra, or others in that category.
Here’s a quick look at Cynthia’s awards and recognition:
• Tony Award for Best Actress in a Musical (The Color Purple)
• Grammy Award for Best Musical Theater Album (The Color Purple)
• 18 wins and 57 nominations, including Oscars, Emmys, and Golden Globes
This isn’t meant as criticism but as encouragement to rethink how you’ve presented Cynthia. She’s not new or “breaking out”-she’s already a star in every sense of the word.
she already took this back in a recent interview 😭 she said she was just having a human moment & shouldve just called a friend instead of posting this on the internet
Has she apologized for insulting them, or just tried to pretend it doesn’t count because she didn’t think it through?
Completely understandable.
But she doesn’t seem to feel bad. And people keep telling her it was AI generated so she does feel justified for her response. Which, if it was AI, I get the reaction. I don’t like AI either. It’s unethical. But it doesn’t justify sending bloodthirsty fans to one individual. I understand that she’s human and has feelings. She is allowed to be hurt and set boundaries as a person. Like she said, she should have just sent that to friends and the only way she can “fix” the situation is by issuing a public and private apology to the artist. Don’t get me wrong, though, I don’t feel like Cynthia is the worst out of the two.
Cynthia is fantastic, but she definitely has an insufferable ego that she does not keep in check. She's lashed out at fans for things like this before (someone fancast her as a muse in a nonexistent live action version of Hercules, and she got mad because she was too good to be part of a chorus.)
I think some of it probably does come from feeling like she has to fight to get her flowers as a black woman. But it's also not uncommon behavior for broadway headliners. You kind of have to be high on your own supply to do live theater like that.
I think you missed a major point and that is the racial slurs and comments that have been thrown her way over the years. If I’m not mistaken she was being called a gorilla a few years ago in one of her movies roles plus she has probably had to face A LOT of racism as a dark skinned Black woman outside of that comment. Do I think she handled it well? No, but I think she is very sensitive about this because the role kinda directly coincides w the plight of Black women and she seems to connect w the character a lot which makes sense why she would be so sensitive about it. Once you see the movie you’ll see the irony in those UK publications only posting Ariana too lol. It’s multi layered. It’s true that she’s a pop star but it’s also true that racial bias is a reason they barely had Cynthia on the covers of those publications.
cynthia was sooo good in the role, i wish she just let the film speak for itself 😭
As someone who used to really struggle with my own African facial features and how they were presented in photos, I’m sensing some deep internalized racism throughout her post // her mistyped ramble of a text is not only hella tone deaf (as there are a multitude of Black and brown people around the world right, especially women, who are facing genocide, apartheid, and gender violence) it is kind of heartbreaking because it sounds like she’s upset that her eyes were covered and now the focus is on her beautiful African nose and ruby red lips (which matches closer to the original Broadway poster - which she knows!) I think in a human moment she could be projecting her frustrations of misogynoir media coverage in Western Europe and the racist comments online onto this photoshopped poster. But I also get the sense that, like for many of us Black womenfolk who were called derogatory names throughout our schooldays and careers, she still has some deep insecurities around her appearance (even though she is a stunning bald African GODDESS of song and soul)
I think it was a misstep that revealed some things about her, and I think calling out her inner monologue can be done WITHOUT calling her an “angry black woman” or “narcissistic” (she is neither) BUT there is also a meta narrative that Arianna was paid $15 million for wicked while Cynthia, the main character and vocal backbone of the movie was paid only $1 million. Which has gender, race, and color-coded celebrity politics painted ALL over the canvas . . . Cynthia is going thorough it and it’s sad to see
So
It was way over the top. It seems to me that they originally wanted to put out a poster that mimicked the original Broadway poster and SHE refused because she wanted her whole face to show, and when the fan edit went viral it proved that was what people would have preferred. It comes across as being livid at being wrong. She took out ALL her frustrations on someone helping promote her movie in a way she didn’t like, and her rant was unhinged. No one brought up which parts of her character’s body were green but her, and to say something like THAT while saying that editing the poster to cover her eyes is the most disgusting thing she’s ever seen is wild. I watched the movie and enjoyed it, she and Ariana did a great job, but they’re going to Snow White the movie if they keep it up. She’d do better to create a fake account with a fake internet name and anonymous profile pic and rant that way. Part Two is going to flop next year if this continues.
Also, the major media publications like CNN, Rolling Stone, etc., say that Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande were paid the same amount, but I haven’t seen what that was exactly. Cynthia is the lead while Ariana is the bigger star, and they seem to have similar screen times, so it makes sense.
Ariana is driving more sales and deserves a higher pay. Erivo is actually turning viewers OFF and is a liability.
I do agree that she is insecure about her looks and the poster highlighted her african features without the balance of eyes. But that is her face, thst's what it looks like. It wasnt altered, just slapped a little lipstick on. She has a trigger response to perceived slights, when this wasn't even a slight.
I have a strong feeling that this role took on a different significance for her, as it involves someone who is often blamed, ignored, and generally unappreciated, simply because of issues related to color.
There were also many people mocking her during the reveal, with terrible montages circulating. In this context, she chose to look directly at the camera in this picture.
That’s why I believe she completely misunderstood the purpose of this poster and made a poor choice by expressing it in that way.
My opinion
And I really don't think is about jealous...
Cynthia is black and British as am I, I know for a fact she would have experienced some discrimination on her come up in the theatre world, and i sense she projected her past experiences onto the fan poster. I think she was triggered from her past & that's what made her misinterpret the fan's good intentions.
Also, Cynthia should be supported by British papers as she's British! UK media does downplay or ignore black women's /people's success at times, which is why many black British actor's go to the U.S to reach the top of their profession (Daniel kaluya and John Boeaga)
Lenny James and Idris Elba also Mel B from the Spice Girls just to name a few yeah and Leona Lewis to that's why her career didn't take off to
I feel like she’s older and has put in so much work being literally one of the best lowkey under the radar for such a long time that it’s probably hard for her to view it from the perspective you’re talking about. I mean she truly does deserve to be able to speak out and does deserve way more respect but you’re also right she needs to get out of her own way to main stream success.
3:24 In 2017, Natasha, Pierre, and the Great Comet of 1812 (hereby shortened to Comet for brevity) needed to replace Josh Groban as Pierre because his contract was up. Pierre is the male lead of the show, and a multi-instrumentalist. As a show, Comet didn’t have traditional mass-audience appeal: it was weird, campy, meta, strange, and more than a little confusing (and this is coming from someone who has been a die hard fan since 2013’s ART bootleg). Comet was known for its color-blind casting, diversity, and homegrown cast, as many of the roles were filled by the same relative-unknown actors from the first productions years prior (except, notably, Josh Groban). Comet was lauded for being very experimentalist (breaking fourth walls, anachronistic with its historical time period) and had completely refurbished the layout of the theatre it was in. All of this was very expensive, so Comet needed a star with a built in fanbase. Enter Okieriete "Oak" Onaodowan, an actor best known for his supporting role in Hamilton. Oak was given a relatively short 5-week stint and told that he needed to bring in the tickets that would keep the show running. Here’s where the drama comes in: Rumors abound that Oak was ill-prepared for the difficult role, not being off book or able to play all the instruments. Production had chosen Oak based on the fervor of Hamilton fans and assumed where Oak went, the Hamilton fans would follow. I don’t know how much credibility I give to those rumors, but regardless, after a lukewarm reception and not a noticeable increase in ticket sales, Oak is pushed out of the production two weeks into his run, three weeks earlier than planned. In a bid for a bigger star, Oak was replaced by Mandy Patinkin, a well known and respected white actor. This fueled issues on many levels: Mandy was significantly older than previous Pierres, exacerbating the age gap between himself and the eventual love interest Natasha; Mandy was a theatre staple replacing a young Black man’s big break; Oak was given no time to recoup losses and an impossible deadline; and should a very costly, rather niche show really rely on one actor’s rather minimal fanbase to afford the cost of production?
Cynthia Erivo, as well as many actors and fans, chimed in with criticism of the production for not giving Oak a chance, and then immediately choosing the established white actor. The criticism caused Mandy Patinkin to also leave his contract early, and no other actors wanted to get involved in the scandal, leaving Comet’s composer Dave Malloy to jump in as Pierre for the remainder of the very short run.
I seem to remember that Oak was given paid leave and was supposed to return when ticket sales improved. Also, they had Brittain Ashford take paid leave too and had Ingrid Michaelson take over for the same reason.
I honestly think she had a human moment. Yea, it was silly to get angry from many of our perspectives (including mine), but we don't know what Cynthia has gone through to lead her to behave in such a manner. Nonetheless, she gave a stellar performance. I like your nuanced take on it.
All this aside, she was absolutely brilliant in the movie. Wonderful portrayal of the character, amazing singing voice, and I really appreciated her advocating for practical effects for Elphaba’s skin. I know this movie was tough to film for the leads in particular, and the defensiveness definitely stemmed in part from how hard she worked.
Honestly, with how much people talk about that fan made poster, you would think Cynthia was just making comment after comment and posting nonstop about it. She made one post. One. And she even said that she probably should have talked to some friends before making it. We as a society really need to learn to stop making things bigger than they are. Let that one IG story post go, yall
For real. The same people saying she should have stayed silent are the ones bringing it up over and over again. Can’t THEY shut up on social media and talk to someone irl? Or should we ignore the glaring hypocrisy that they don’t hold themselves to the same standard as celebrities. I honestly feel people were just waiting for a reason to dislike her because it’s not that serious,
@ so true!!
I don’t believe that Cynthia is a bad person for the Wicked Poster IG story. I personally have put it on the shelf. I wish her no ill will and I hope she’s doing well. 😊💚
I think it's gotten a deserved amount of backlash considering a star came for a literal fan that did nothing wrong and was actually celebrating the film.
As a person that lives off fan engagement, that was wild. And I don't see anyone still bring it up except for in an expose type video like this
It's not the post, it's her saying it was the most offensive thing she's seen, as if some edited fanart could compare to the actual horrors going on in the world. It's her ego and delusion that struck a cord, not that she was offended.
I saw wicked and she is talented enough that I don’t mind the diva😁
The thing with the poster is at first I thought it was dramatic and only because the person who made it didn’t have intentions to erase her or anything, they were a fan of the franchise and just making the original poster so yeah she was really reactive and it was silly. I also found the tiktok comedies mocking her about it a bit funny. But then it got to a point where all the comments had like this hidden line of extra hate and i’m like ok it wasn’t THAT serious.
I started to be concerned by all the videos mocking her in an overly hateful way and then comments referring to her as “the green one” or “the bald one & Ariana” was really bothering me. Like a lot of people used this moment of her being dramatic to openly hate on her and get away with it the way they already wanted to in secret. And then I felt for Cynthia and could feel for her perspective of things because I could genuinely see it go from oh a little joke to people almost bullying her. Also found it ironic considering themes in the movie n stuff
Honestly what truly matters is the performance.
When ya favs act up YALL be quick to dismiss things
@@PorscheF What the fuck do you mean?
I feel the same way when it comes to Ari and Cynthia. In fact, I think their perceived flaws added to the film.
The performances, direction, set design, the chorus and dancers, everything was absolutely amazing
@@kokolatte825 I don't like musicals but the interviews with her and Cynthia were horrifying to watch. I'm not a fan of Ariana Grande because she defended an abuser.
@@wiinterflowers95
Their interviews are cringe because they are being so emotional, but once you watch the film, it makes more sense
It’s kind of crazy how even still she’s getting all this hate and while I kind of get where the fans are coming from I also understand why those edits would piss her off.
She is undeniably talented, and she was great in the movie. But, she has made disparaging comments about Black Americans, and hasn’t addressed it to my knowledge. So… I personally don’t care for her.
I love Cynthia E no matter what- she was incredible in The Outsider and Harriet. She is such a gorgeous talent!
She was great in Genius: Aretha Franklin too. An incredible talent.
I understand where she was coming from. There has been so much hate over POC casting in typical white rolls. I understand why she was on the defensive.
Wait, what did her race have to do with the poster?
Her point still stands though. She is being a bit erased. She's the main character of the movie, yet Ariana is the one mostly talked about it seemed. Both actresses did incredible work. She just seems like someone who reacts then thinks. It's not the end of the world and I don't understand why this poster situation became this
Cynthia’s should let her talent speak. As she was phenomenal in the movie
This sort of downplays a lot of what the fandom was doing...we need to just admit that some times the public, including the fans, are toxic and do not know how to engage with this stuff in a healthy manner that respects themselves as well as the actors. Some fans need to be reprimanded. If people feel that is entitlement, oh well. Cynthia is one award away from being an EGOT. She is the reason that this show can claim to have an Oscar nominated actress in the lead role.
You must not know how big Cynthia is in Broadway and her impact the last ten years in her worldwide exposure.
Cynthia has been in the Hollywood Scence for over the last six years.
She has had several scandals not putting her in the best light.
Romantic entanglements like Ariana.
She is British she is top billing she is the main character of a co lead story.
So she has the right to feel in her hometown slighted by her community if she sees them focusing on Ariana.
I think this has been building over time for her. She definitely went about it the wrong way and took her anger out on the wrong person.
Ariana Grande has been equally supportive of hyping her co Star because Ariana is an OG theater kid.
This is a once in the lifetime chance for Ariana. Cynthia does this for lunch😂
Her selective choices on how she played Elphaba were subtle and brought a different vulnerable and emphatic take on the character.
Her last scene shows everyone the powerhouse talent that she is in Wicked part one.
I’m not even a fan of her like that, but her talent can’t be denied, her fight to be recognized in Hollywood has been shaky.
Ariana has the same situation she has now gone mainstream and proven to the public her true musical chops and reinforcing her great comedic chops from her Nickoldean days to SNL.
I’ve followed her OG musical performances when she sang Broadway covers, performances with her cast outside her kid shows before she even became a pop star ⭐️ so this is a full circle moment for her.
I hope they really get the recognition they both deserve they both truly respected all the previous sources from the Wizard of Oz, Gregory McGuire book Wicked, and then the OG Broadway 🎭 play of Wicked with Irina and Kirsten.
@Girl2TheCity I didn’t know😭 thank you!
Right. She’s BEEN in mainstream consciousness. She was Harriet Tubman AND Aretha Franklin. 🤣
On the West End (UK production) there has been a black Elphaba and their have been black stand-ins and understudies for Elphaba ( someof which did get to preform) on Broadway, but there has never been a black woman actually cast as Elphaba on Broadway
The first time I heard of Cynthia Erivo was when she sang “Fly Before you Fall” for the movie Beyond the Lights. The song still gives me chills. Her voice never misses! She was great in Harriet and when she sang the song “Stand Up” for the soundtrack, she was great as Aretha Franklin and sounded amazing singing her songs. She is an incredible talent. That being said she seems to be kind of a drama queen and a diva , but that is to be expected from an actual drama queen (dramatic actress) and an actual diva (a leading stage singer).
9:47 not to mention Cynthia is originally British. Can’t imagine how that must’ve hurt all the more 😢
Oh she absolutely is being erased. Everywhere I just see Glinda.
Her unwarranted reaction towards that poster caused that fan to forever have this media that they love so much tarnished along with all the death threats they had received because of Cynthia and Cynthia refusing to fully own up. I’m sure she’s a good person and her struggles are real but her projections gives off big mean girl
Society hates outspoken women, especially when they’re a person of color. When Cynthia reacted to the fan edit, I had to take a step back and reflect. As a member of the alabaster disaster brigade, I don’t know what it’s like to be a Black woman being constantly compared to white beauty standards. Cynthia mentioned in interviews that she never thought she’d be chosen to be Elphaba. She thought people would call her ugly & think she’s not good enough before even getting to hear her. Cynthia was surprised & touched that the new poster showed her face & that was the main focus. When Cynthia saw the fan edit blacking out her face to look more like the original, it triggered a wound for her that she didn’t expect. I’ve been in love with Idina’s Elphaba for decades & Cynthia paid tribute to her while making the character her own in a really powerful way. I was overwhelmed & deeply moved. I’m immensely grateful Cynthia was chosen. I hate that the UK erased her from the ads & promo. I hope people respect her moving forward. I can’t wait to see what she does next.
Respectfully, the double standard that many humans portray for other famous humans of a certain race is obnoxious. Cynthia in an interview about the IG post and photo edit commented (apologized) stating she has been protective of the character and should have handled it in another way. Yet, that does not take away from the fact that her image was being overshadowed by the fan edit (which was okay, I support artistic expression). However we must realize that Cynthia as famous and brilliantly astute as she has become, is human with similar feelings like us. She poured herself into this role (herself and Ari referring to themselves as 'husks' at the end of a day on set) so forgive her for being offended by removing her image from work wherein she was catapulted into the atmosphere while acting and singing. Forgive her for being a person of a different race who is opinionated about socio-political concerns which affects her. Forgive her for standing up for herself. I invite you to redirect the anger of accountability to those famous (public figure type) humans who are silently connected with the erasure of another human race.
Girl as soon as u said you're from the Netherlands, I subscribed💜 loved the vid
A black woman has already played elphaba
Cynthia is the first black Elpbaba FOR THE WHOLE WORLD to see. That would obviously cause a greater response than ones from plays that EVERYBODY in the world will not see.
🥴 Wicked has been a stage play for 20 years. This comment really makes no sense to me
@@kokolatte825that’s the difference. Unless a stage play is recorded and distributed via a major international company it is unlikely to have the global reach a movie will.
Being erased? Everytime I look at the tele or my phone or the side of a bloody bus on my way to work her face is there!
Sick of the sight of all the wicked stuff.
So erased? Sadly not.
✨Critical Thinking✨ and research is really needed if you didn’t understand her outrage.
@@BarryBobbins being sick of the wicked stuff while putting Ariana Grande as your pfp is wild 😭😭😭
@@SoliderBoy-ic9 If you actually look at it it’s not a good photo of her.
Or maybe neither, can she be human and have feelings and express then? She was hurt, that’s it, that’s all.
I think she may have overreacted but it certainly wasn’t done out of malice. Same for the designer of that poster. Making a mountain out of a molehill
The whole thing makes me feel so conflicted because on the one hand, the only thing I knew about her before the drama was "she's the new Elphaba" and nothing else, so the drama was basically like my first introduction to her, and it did NOT make a good first impression (especially since I'm half-Black and would be much more sympathetic if she were talking about some of the racist lash back from her getting the role rather than complaining about a relatively harmless fan edit). So it felt like hearing "there's a new up and coming celebrity in town!" and you go "oh cool!" and then they make a dramatic entrance by spitting in some random person's face. Generally not a good look.
But on the other hand, I really did love her performance after watching the movie. Like, not only is it cool to see a Black woman become the face for such an iconic character and star in what might be this year's biggest blockbuster, but she is an incredible actress and singer, and was one of my favorite parts of the movie. She basically blew it out of the park, so my impression of her as an artist is very high! But as a person? Not the most positive. So it all just feels like a bit of a mess.
She's very talented and did amazing in her role. Honestly I don't see why she's facing a lot of hate. Sure her comment about the poster might've been overstepping to some people, but why is she receiving more hate for reacting negatively to a poster than her co-star who literally got into a relationship with a married man?
Erivo's performance was probably the best thing in the movie - but I can't stand that chick in real life. she's got the vibe of she's just LOOKING for a reason to be offended in situations
This has to be by far the most even view on the situation. You came at it by both sides professionally in a way that many don't you pointed out the issues, what me may not know behind the scenes and her history.
The great comet was based on parts of war and peace
I held my thoughts until seeing the movie. Cynthia did amazing but both her and Ariana were wild on PR. I love your take but wish you had done at least some research prior. There have been many black elphabas for example! Aswell as Cynthia is extremely well known in the Broadway scene. Still love the video overall.
As to the Wicked poster, I can see where she is coming from, but I also do not blame a Wicked fan for editing a poster to look like the broadway version.
I feel what should be critiqued was how it was edited. The shadows and coloring made everything look darker and the hat seemed crooked, but then again, it was just a fun quick edit. The fan did not mean any harm by it. The fan doesn’t deserve any hate.
I am not mad at Cynthia either. There seems to be trauma related to her response and it sucks that she blames the wrong person because she can’t risk blaming the production companies and PR team.
The hat’s shape was literally unchanged; it’s crooked in the original poster. There’s literally nothing wrong with this fan edit, the whole point is to make it look like the original which it accomplished
Tbh she had to watch for month as people mocked her (asking if her 🐱 was greeen) or were being genuinely racist towards her. She lashed out at the wrong person yes but she was silent for a good while just putting up with that. And no one should have to put up with something like that
I feel like she’s definitely misunderstood, she definitely was being erased and even in promoting the movie they exclusively used ari for alot of the brand deals when the story is mostly about elphaba
Cynthia has to move smarter especially as a black woman in Hollywood.
CE knocked it out of the park in the role. She was incredible and should get an Oscar nod. One thing worth noting, however, is that despite the deeper/darker themes of the story, this is supposed to be a fun movie experience. Elphaba and Glinda are fictional characters. The movie poster is of the fictional characters. Yes, CE and AG are playing those characters so they're on the poster, but ultimately they are still characters and we live in an AI/photoshop world. When CE took someone's excitement over seeing the characters on the big screen and made it personal, she came across as overly dramatic, out-of-touch and, frankly, ridiculous to many ticket-buying movie-goers. There are fans so turned off by her they won't go to the theater to see the movie now. She's been in entertainment long enough to know how PR works - and that Hollywood is a viper pit. If the studio believes she's screwing up the press tour with outbursts that alienate fans (and potential fans), they won't put her front and center for the rest of the press tour and risk more gaffs (and thus more money). They'll push AG out front because she has more PR experience and is better at playing the game.
Producers probably are glad they casted someone who “goes against the grain” and “defies adversity”. She definitely fits the role but all for the reasons that should’ve been positive
Saw the movie this week and have stayed away from the whole pr. Now that I’m seeing these, and having been in both marketing and entertainment- I’m very concerned that the cast will be “cancelled “ before part 2. My personal thoughts are- anyone involved in this movie needs to understand is the movie, the musical, characters, and the fans are much bigger than they are. The chemistry between the two women is amazing and both are extremely talented and a joy to watch perform.
It's a campaign of hate from the same old haters who can't live without dragging others down with them. If Cynthia is such an awful person why does everyone who works with her, love her and say what a wonderful person she is? If she is such an awful person, would she have created her own company to support young black actresses? If she was so awful, would she spend so much of her time teaching young actors? Also, she is relatively new to Hollywood and has to find her feet so she admits that she is learning from any mistakes she makes. As a person who doesn't believe in pretence, she speaks her mind and remains true to herself, rather than choosing to embrace the fake 'say what people want to hear' approach adopted by so many in Hollywood. By doing this she, of course, isn't going to please everyone but I have a huge amount of respect for her in choosing to stay true to who she is and by wearing her heart on her sleeve. Don't ever let them bring you down Cynthia. Ah Ahhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaa!!!
She in not new to Hollywood, and why would people speak badly about her?no one will hire an actress that only creates drama.
This isn’t Cynthia’s first mainstream money she was Harriet in Harriet Tubmans movie and sings that stand up song
UK ELLE, UK VOGUE...reputable UK Outlets had Cynthia alone, and that's great. Three notorious tabloids (who were brutal to Grande before, if you did your homework) did their disgusting shtick. Daily Fail is the nickname of one of those 3 trashy papers. They dunk on actors, politicians, royals....everyone. It's not UK media, it's UK TABLOIDS. UK did cast black actors in Sheakspirian (white) roles half century ago, while USA had a meltdown over Little Mermaid a year ago. Of course, if you made up your mind about UK - nothing can be done. Can't wait to see the movie, definitely! Cheers!
Such good insights!!
😢❤BLACK ELPHABA ON BROADWAY B4 CYNTHIA - BRANDY CHAVONNE MASSEY (FROM CINCINNATI, OH😢❤)
Cynthia is sooooo talented and I just have to laugh at anyone trying to make her feel low or trying to destroy her and her career. Always letting ppl know no weapon that is formed against her will prosper 😭.
no weapon formed against her gave me childhood flashbacks im crying 😭
@ wdym 😭😭
Her performance was just breathtaking and we cannot deny her talent but her irl…like I can’t help it but I don’t like her so it’s conflicting
Black and brown women HAVE played Elphaba on Broadway.
Cynthia seriously needs to get over herself. God almighty.
She is highly talented however in the poster situation she reacted emotionally without understanding that the person who made it was a super fan of Wicked. Lack of understanding of the fan base. The wicked fan base is much bigger than just the movie. It started as a book then a musical and now a play. She does not own the character.
Alexia Khadime was the first black Elphaba
I love this series. I'm reading all four of the Wicked books right now.I read them every year for my birthday. This whole thing would have been great. But,cynthia Has been so negative about her own movie. because we have the same name. It turned me off completely to going to see the movie because I keep hearing my name so negatively In everything about the movie. I don't even want to see it now.
I think Cynthia overreacted a bit, the fan that remade the poster is a Wicked fan who didn't like the promotional poster and wanted to give it the looks of the original musical poster. He just covered her eyes and brushed her lips with red color. I don't see the harm on that. -.-
To make it a live action version of the original Broadway poster, no one is trying to erase her... -.-
About your questions of if ever was a black Elphaba as far as I know no, but nowadays we have a black Glinda which is weird to me 'cause you know the mainstream media always has portrayed Glinda as a white blonde girl or woman depending on which adaptation you're looking at. You just gotta adjust your thoughts on certain aspects but we can tolerate and accept changes with time, right?
And about her complaining of media erasing her, I think the way you're thinking: it's not that media wants to erase her it's just that outside musical theatre fans she is not that well known worldwide, so obviously they're gonna pay more attention to Ariana as she is a global popstar, she just released her new album amidst of recording Wicked. So yeah, right now she's in the public eye besides of the enthusiasm of her fans for her comeback as an actress.
It's not at least from my perspective intentional in any way to erase Cynthia.
But only big artists like her knows what happens to her and her ego...
Also i'm going to have to disagree with the points you made at the end. I feel like people are always trying to silence black people in particular black women and she has the right to view her opinions and its not really sabotage when shes consistently being treated poorly.
I hope not. I am soooooo blown away by her version of Defying Gravity and I'm not that girl. Full discloser- I read the book which definitely deals with racism and I have seen her live at Elsie Fest and had a MOMENT when she sang "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" it's on TH-cam
I think the reaction to her insta story was waaaaay to exaggerated, people called her all the names and someone who overreacted and then overreacted themselves. The jokes they still say about her being erased are soooo annoying!
That's my chat the internet is so hypocritical and just want people to hate, they call people out on certain things but then go and do the exact thing like huh
I've literally read comments from people who don't want to go see the movie just because of what happened with Cynthia. Not to mention that there's also people who don't want to go see the movie because of the interviews and because the movie is too "woke" for them and too demonic according to a few people comments I managed to read xd
Don't even care. She nailed this performance
No. This girl is all over my social media even when I dont want to see it.
this is how I find out you're in the Netherlands? in a Wicked video of all things?
Love her! Shes so crazyyyyyyyy
hey friend just wanted to quickly point out the typo in Cynthia's name in your title! pretty hard to notice but wanted to let you know so you can fix it :) thats all!! hope this doesnt come off as rude
I 100% undersand Cynthia's reaction. It makes me sad, how people refuse to give her grace and forgive her for not realising the fan meant it in a "positive" way. I mean, Trump is literally president: rac1sm won! I bet, her mentions on social media must have been filled to the brim for MONTHS with vicious rac1st attacks, memes, caricatures and pictures. Instead, people are acting as if there is no valid reason or context for her very emotional outburst.
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She could have just not made a massive scene over a harmless edit and people would just watch the movie and enjoy it... She has a chip on her shoulder and it does show.
I really thought I'd be more biased against her take since her ridiculous poster reaction and how borderline insane her and Ariana have been in interviews. But both did a great job, highlights of the film.
Overall I didn't love the movie, felt overly long and a bit of a lackluster ending considering it's not just a intermission but a whole ass sequel coming up. It was fine though, just needed a few extra rounds of editing on the script and film.
Isn't it even problematik that she have to consider her behavior in that matter? I mean, sure, if she would be white it wouldn't Phase her as much as it did but i'm unsure if she would get the amount of back lash as she did, if she had spoken out the same way about it in the former mentioned hypothetic....
I mean the harmful stereotyp "ang4y Black women" is still a thing isn't it? I am sincere here, cause I am "white", so what do I know about the reality of life of black woman though
Girl why are u still bringing this up.
The erasure wasn’t on the publicists though, if fans are removing you from a photo? And there have been Black Elphabas on the west end in London. Broadway has yet to cast a Black woman but there have been about 3 who went on stage as standbys
I would be upset if my Pay was not equal to my coworkers if my role is the lead role ect her talent speaks for itself if trump can be president and all the other actors can have an ego she gets ALL PASSES ON ALL ACCOUNTS THERE IS NOTHING GOING ON ABOUT HER! SO STOP!
they should of kept the black actor
JE KOMT UIT NEDERLAND 😭😭😭😭
are you gonna change the spelling of her last name to the correct one?
I actually get where Cynthia is coming from about the poster situation. It's like can we not edit things without people's permission. This is a big deal for her and someone just edits her whole face.
the poster editing is honestly such a non-issue. the original still exists, and the edit itself was very inoffensive. its not even like the edits intent was to “erase” her specifically either because ariana’s face is also obscured in it.
Honestly, I’m not a fan of her. She rubbed me the wrong way and that probably won’t go away for a while. But I do believe she’s sick. I think her and Ariana are both anorexia sisters. I think they both suffer from ED. Usually when two women are suffering from it, they feed into their illnesses, it is a very strong, but unhealthy bond when two people come together to feed into their ED. It would explain why they cry all the time. They’re constantly crying. Trust me when you’re not eating anything can make you cry because deep down inside you’re starving, but you’re miserable because you’re not eating and you’re torturing yourself because you’re scared of food and just look at them, their weight has changed immensely since the filming of the movie to now. I hope they can get help, might be best if they don’t spend time together until they both get healthy or else one of them can cause the other to rebound
The book is better fuck the movie
A few corrections: Elphaba has been played by black actresses in many different productions! Just to name a few: Saycon Sengblog, Brandi Chavonne Massey, Lilli Cooper (understudies on Broadway), Emmy Raver-Lampman (tour understudy), Dan’yelle Williamson (Chicago understudy), and Alexia Chadime (principle Elphaba on the West End). There's a lot to be said on lack of racial diversity in Wicked's principal roles - like, prior to Cynthia on screen, only Alexia has played Elphaba full-time - why have we never had a main black Elphaba on Broadway? ridiculous at this point - but there is precedent to Cynthia's casting.
Second: Okay, how long do you have lol? So Great Comet is a niche show and the drama was super complicated, you're fine for not knowing all the details! Basically, the show was based off of War & Peace -- a very small section of War & Peace, which is an insanely long and convoluted book. It's a weird show. So, so fun, but very weird. From its inception in 2013, the show's casting was deliberately diverse; understudies of all different races were cast for each role, Denee Benton played the lead role of Natasha on Broadway (which had been played by a mixed-race Asian woman Off-Broadway), and the main role of Pierre had been played by two white actors before the casting of Okieriete Onaodowan ("Oak") as a replacement Pierre for a limited run. I emphasize that-- limited. Meaning, like, he was an actor with some name-recognition in the Broadway community, stepping into the role for a limited time. This is pretty common! (We've seen the same thing with shows like Little Shop, Waitress, etc. - when the original actor steps away, they have to cast a big name to bring in ticket sales.)
Except the show wasn't bringing in as many tickets as they needed to stay afloat. Like, this wasn't Oak's fault, and no one was blaming him... but considering Josh freakin' Groban was playing the role previously and driving a ton of sales, yeah, there was going to be a drop. Put simply, the show needed to cast a big name in the title role. Mandy Patinkin - a white actor - has a lot of general name recognition, and the show believed he'd bring in those tickets. Going from two white actors to a black actor to a white actor again really wasn't something the producers THOUGHT about - like, black Christines have been cast on Broadway, but that doesn't mean there can never be another white Christine. People really took issue with them cutting Oak's limited engagement short to bring in Mandy - with the proposed idea that he'd resume the role and finish out his run once Mandy's engagement was finished. This was just to keep the show afloat, otherwise... well, Oak wasn't finishing that run either way, because the show was headed for closure fast.
Not to get into gossip, but there was... talk about Oak. People did say he didn't come prepared for the role of Pierre... he couldn't play the piano or accordion, which was needed for the role. Like, he had time to learn, but he just... either didn't, or wasn't able to? He waned to "re-imagine" the role as a character who didn't play instruments, and it's like... that doesn't work within the score? He also didn't talk to the directors about this. A lot of drama has come out from behind the scenes about Oak not being prepared for the role and having a lot of creative difficulties with the director, which... I mean, it's been years, it's whatever, but it sounds like there were def reasons behind his replacement. "Poison Oak' makes sense in context, as members of the cast were really caught in the middle of this drama.
It really blew up, and turned into a whole mess. Like, there's no sane way to explain everything that happened, but... the long-and-short is, Cynthia had nothing to do with the production! She didn't really know what was going on behind the scenes. She didn't need to get involved... or start attacking actual members of the cast, like, GIRL. It's okay! Just stay out of it! Like, she's hardly the first person to get into drama on Twitter, but it did damage her online reputation unfortunately.
I'm so early!!!
It has nothing to do with her race, it is her behaviour. The same as Meghan Markle, stop blaming their behaviour on the British Media, they are not the only ones reporting on it.
Ariana Grande is not the biggest star only to your young kids not to adults
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All this drama was soooooo over blown and childish
It's disturbing to watch them in interviews.
I am sorry but as a black woman as well, I do not know if I could have been standing all the racism… back in 2023 a lot of people used AI to make Ariel white and photoshopped as well to erase Halle. Cynthia has been persecuted for playing a character who’s literally green for 3 years. But also yes the way she said it without any context may have came off very aggressive but yes she’s being erased a lot but it’s mainly the only thing she’s said and she probably won’t do it ever again…
Also the fan did the edit by saying « I fixed the poster » meaning that seeing her face was very much the problem and for someone being bullied a lot that must trigger a lot of trauma… and the person who made the poster did post a lot of tweets and dmd people saying it made them famous 💀So they’re not totally innocent at all
I do agree with you on the Great Comet controversy, however it is crazy because when a black actor/actress takes on a white role they get the most backlash but when it’s the other way around we are always dramatising and that is so saddening…
The Wicked broadway poster depicted characters that were hidden because they were meant to be played by any actors that would take on the roles, however the Wicked The Movie poster is very specific to Ariana and Cynthia so they both should be shown and not hidden… However, I believe in 2007, Elphaba has been played by a black actress but people still bully black actors for playing a green character. It’s not the first time they’ve been trying to sabotage the movie they said the Ariana and Ethan relationship would ruin it, Cynthia being black would ruin it, people have been doing it all along so at one point people say big things our of anger and it is to be called out but not blamed and bullied for it is so annoying how much work black women or even women have to put into to appear or look good
Wtf THATS long
Thiiiiiiiis! My thougths exactly. I wish, people had been able to understand but that would have meant to see the world from her pov, and apparently, that's too much to ask.
I don't think that the editor was hiding her face because they thought it was problematic. They just did it to resemble the original Broadway poster more closely. They didn't seem to manipulate much of her facial features other than giving her a smile.
@@ThePrincessCH It’s the way they put it mainly as « fixing it » not even making it closer to the OBP but only fixing it because it was wrong and the main thing they did was not showing her face when the poster clearly is meant for HER Elphaba and ARIANA’S Glinda
@@moustik31 Same! Some people are just saying « i wouldn’t have done that » or « She’s a drama queen » but never know what she went through and don’t like her showing humanity and individuality, try thinking that not everyone lived the same life as you did and people won’t react the same to something that does not sit right with them