Reacting to a Christian Stepping on the Bible
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This week, there was some guy on Twitter, stirring things up by making a video of himself stepping on a holy icon to make the point that people shouldn’t be so uptight about sacred objects, as if those objects deserved more reverence than we owe ourselves. After all, they’re just paint and wood and we are made in the divine image. If anything, the icons should be venerating us. And so to prove his point, he put one on the ground and stepped on it. And I figured, well, he sounds like a Protestant, so I said, he probably wouldn’t do that with the Bible, to which he replied, “Hold my beer.”
And he proceeded to step on the Bible in a follow up video.
His point was, an icon is just paint and wood. To treat it like it’s more #holy than a human being, created in the image of #God is foolish and superstitious and that matters most is what’s in our hearts and minds and now how we treat inanimate objects. Which is why imposing all kinds of devotions that make humans venerate these icons is to act as though wood and paint are more significantly holy than we are.
Music written and generously provided by Paul Jernberg. Find out more about his work as a composer here: pauljernberg.com
Podcast Version: brianholdsworth.libsyn.com/ - บันเทิง
Thanks for watching! Do you think that an icon or a Bible can be disrespected by us without consequence?
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Only until we face the dread judgement seat of Christ.
NO…..they represent the Sacred so if you step on any of the things you said, you are stepping on Christ.
I think it shows a mindset of ignorance, immaturity ,contempt and presumption. The eaucarist is a mixture of water and wheat but it represents our lord and savior as he himself described. That all will be forgotten and forgiven is the sin of presumption, I doubt they would do this to symbols from other faiths.
Add a disclaimer in the comments not to actually do the challenge at the end of the video lol, someone will surely try...
I can't remember which Church Father wrote an amazing treatise against Iconoclasm. Is it St. John of Damascus, St. John Damascene?
It, essentially, would be great fruit for thought of anyone stepping on sacred things and the Word Himself, on paper or in Flesh.
I'm a Protestant and I think that guy is wrong. You can have respect for what a thing represents without making it an idol. And to purposely distmrespect something that is depicting a holy being or that contains the word of God, that is a dangerous slope to dance on.
You understand. ❤ ✝️
This movie is not about idols. What is wrong with Brians thoughs?
@@AdrianSjunger89 I didn't say Brian was wrong.
Protestants are not Christian’s.
@@awesomemccoolname7111 Ok, my wrong! Have a blessed saturday evening!
That is not normal Protestant behavior. When I was in Bible College, a common attitude was that my fellow Baptists would not even want to put other books on top of a Bible because they felt that was dishonoring to the Bible, similar to raising another flag above the American flag on a flagpole.
Protestantism is abstract, it runs away from itself.
Its historically based on hatred of the true church.
Salvation is secondary.
And the whole world knows it.
@blueeyes402 you need to read history with a comment like that...wow...just wow
@@JW_______ you mean you should read philosophy.
@@blueeyes402 who do you suggest I read?
As a Japanese Catholic, it's sad that a Christian would do this.
May God bless you and keep you!
Need to show them the movie Silence.
@@anycyclopediaI really don’t think that garbage movie would teach them any positive lessons
Excellent use of Fr. Mark clip. Also, that thumbnail is, something.
An icon is only "paint and wood" if you're a materialist. Or a Gnostic.
Or just not some stupid papist
Yeah, and it's not far from, and ultimately leads to, "a human is just flesh and bones, a monkey in a suit, what soul, what spirit, what meaning?"
This was one of the best explanations I have ever heard! I parked it in my "saved videos" so I can practically memorize it for apologetics. God bless you!
Brian I am always impressed with your thought process in your videos, and I’m often surprised by the direction your videos head in. Not only are you intelligent and eloquent in your speech, you are very entertaining. I always love your arguments.😊
This is what happens when you "it's not about religion it's about a relationship".
The virtue of religion is about giving God what he is due. To reject religion is to reject relationship.
I know I'm equivocating here, but I doubt this crowd thinks much about what they actually owe to God
@@marvalice3455you should be careful about how you generalize and demonize people who are different than you
@@JW_______ pluralism is fake. There is only one way to the Father
@@JW_______ if you do not have the virtue of religion, you are not capable of being a just man.
If you are not a just man, you are not a good man.
If that convicts you, that's your problem
@marvalice3455 I may have misread the OP, which led me to read your comment in response differently than I do now. But the point that I want to communicate is that believing that Christianity is fundamentally about relationship with God does not mean that one rejects virtue or religious disciplines. One can do both. I see a caricature far too often in RC YT channels.
Excellent defense of precious icons and the Holy Bible! Thank you!
I have many Southern Baptist acquaintances the would readily agree with the young man about stepping on icons, and probably do the same. However, if you dared to step on, spit on, or desecrate a t-shirt from their SEC Football school of choice, they would most definitely fight you. 😆 Good example at the end there, Brian!
A man's religion is that which he attends to most.
Meanwhile the kirishitan japanese who died instead of stepping on an image of our Lord
They're in Heaven, probably praying for this man's conversion.
Creating an image of Jesus is blasphemous in the first place. The Christians should’ve stepped all over it.
@@kevin6293 no Christian ever has believed such thing except for fringe iconoclasts and a few modern branches of protestantism. I'm comfortable being on the side of virtually the entire history of Christendom.
@cfban as a Christian, shouldn’t you be on the side of God’s Word instead of the world?
@@kevin6293 and as the world rejects God and beauty we do things that reminds us of both
I hope the next thing he does will not be shouting "Satan, I'm giving my entire self to you" and then saying that it is ok to do so as long as you don't actually mean to invite demons to your life and that words have no power in themselves.
I remember Fr Carlos Martin once say it doesn’t even matter if you mean it or not, all it takes is for you to invite one and that’s all it needs.
Man don't even write that on first person!
@@deusvult8340 Dude we have almost the same account haha
@@bruno-bnvm that's exactly what I've thought 💭. If is premice is granted he should'nt write it down since it's also a mean of "non willingly" givin permission....
@@DeusVult838 Lol
Have him bring that same energy on the quaran.
"nah bro it's their culture and i respect how they defend it fiercely"
Ups
yipes!
I’ll do it no problem. I’ll do it on the Bible too. Any book really. It’s just stuff
I'm an ex protestant convert to Catholicism and I don't hold any object, statue or book to be God and it's important not to treat it as such (that's idolatry). But if the thought police demanded that I step on a Bible or an image of Jesus or Mary, then I would hope to have the courage to refuse (fearing that like St Peter I might fail miserably). I know that isn't logical, but that's how I feel.
It’s proper it is about respect. Many people died to protect the faith which includes the writings that were selected for the Bible.
Your channel exudes quality and authenticity, with each video offering valuable insights that undoubtedly enrich the lives of your viewers. I wholeheartedly support and hope that you reach even more souls with your inspiring content. Keep the good work and keep your faith.
God bless you. Ave Christus Rex!
I wonder if he would step on an American flag? It’s an inanimate object.
He's obviously a liberal so he probably would. A better question is if he would step on a pride flag
Let alone an Israeli one! Then he would give you a 39 hour lecture about "God's chosen people". These guys are idiots.
Would he step on a photo of his parents?
@@stephenson19861 The most obvious way to demonstrate the evil of disrespecting images of holy people or people we love.
@@MichaelMarcopolusShow I think that this act he did, stepping on holy images "because they are only paint and wood" ultimately not only blasphemes against the holy things but is sclerotic mode of thinking for human spirit. Ultimately, it leads, as we can witness today, to a perception of human beings not as imago Dei (what the perpetrator swears by and claims to respect) but to seeing humans as mere flesh and bones, matter to be loved when it's useful and to discard when it ain't.
St. Stephan the Young, during the iconoclast crisis in the East, refused to destroy icons, and to defend himself he stepped on a coin with the image of the emperor. Of course everyone in the trial got scandalized and he got his point. He was executed nontheless.
Well said. Interestingly, the place where Luther called reason "the devil's prostitute" is in his letter "Against the Heavenly Prophets" which was written in opposition to iconoclasts, men like Andreas Karlstadt, who would have loved "clever" arguments like "It's just wood and paint." Luther rightly understood that the question is not about reason itself, but about how reason is used. He also stated, "Reason is God's greatest and most important gift to man, of inestimable beauty and excellence, a glorious light, a most useful servant in theology, something divine."
Thank you for this video! My family underwent a similar battle against a relative years ago. You held your ground well and gave a good explanation!
An addendum to my earlier text...I showed this video to the offending relative. It stung his heart and it led him to reflect on his former actions and to apologize for the scandal he had caused. Mission accomplished! Deo gratias!
This reminds me of that American evangelical church that had a football themed Sunday service and punted a bible 😳 across the church! Lord have mercy on their souls.
I saw that... and as a American protestant, that's awful and disrespectful to God.
I remember a I had a brief talk with a person who paints icons. I was amazed that everything is a "symbol" or sign with a specific meaning. From the colors used to the different positions and poses of the body parts.
It was way more than simply a replica to mentally engage in a scene of history.
Having been in the occult and familar with signs and symbols to excite the senses , the art of iconography seems no different.
The only solace I can find in iconography is the object represented leads the heart and mind toward Christ.
@brendamyc3173 Some would argue the same way a talisman or some other representation is "prayed " into existence.
Like I said I'm positive it's the intent and the object of that intent that matters.
Such disrespectful actions and blindness towards the metaphysical level ultimately stem from deconstructivism. Everything can be demystified when viewed in this way. Then, a person is ultimately just a collection of molecules from various elements. Aristotle already emphasized in his work "Metaphysics": "The whole is more than the sum of its parts."
Honestly, I wouldn't really step on a picture of anyone, that's just disrespectful- let alone a saint
Watch the movie Silence if you want to know what Christians thought of the items that reminded them of the holy during times of persecution. We cleave to every little breadcrumb of holyness, we haven't been left to our own devices, we have a living faith, a sacremental faith, we cleave to the holy rather than being ignorant of the depth of imagery that does infact stir the heart when you meditate on it.
Another great video. Thank you. 🙏
This was a superb video, my brother! Godspeed!
"Let me know what your neighbour's reaction was in the comments when you spat on a picture of his wife right after you made a rude gesture towards it." 😂😂😂 I was so angry right until that moment. It gave me a well needed laugh.
Sounds like that guy doesn’t know what relics and sacramentals are. Degree of holiness does not grant license to abuse things or people.
Amen ‼️
King James IV of Scotland put his foot on a Bible in his coronation. (In Scotland, placing on something was part of swearing like Americans use their hand.)
You and Trent should do more stuff together
Modern Iconoclasts
The 7th Ecumenical Council was about icons. The veneration of icons affirms the Incarnation. The Roman Church never implemented the decisions, which ruled against the use of statues.
Although the church teaches that these objects should be venerated but not worshipped, I wonder if we all know where to draw the line.
Books and scrolls can also become idols. Writing "G-d" is widespread but over the top. The practice of Koran burning is a related issue. It's main purpose is hostile polemic. Oddly enough, burning the regarded as the reverent method of disposal for icons that are beyond repair. Jews bury their worn out holy books.
Perfectly articulated argument, Sir Brian!
I did that when I was in college to make a point to an Orthodox. I regret that. What is sad and actually shows how stupid that was, is that I picked the habit of not putting anything especially a book on top of the bible from my protestant mentor who kind of raised me after I left the Orthodox church to be a protestant. So, this was stupid and evil on my part. May God forgive me. So, I apologize to you and to anyone who would be stumbled by this.
The Holy icons are representations of God and the saints. They are sacred, not because what they are made of but because what they represent.
Isn't this the same argument we make against members of our society, "It's just a clamp of cells." The perversion of the sacred is the corruption of reason
I wholeheartedly agree !
I know that a damaged bible or a rosary etc can be disposed of by burning etc. What about a weekly church flyer (containing religious imagery)?
This is what comes of iconoclasm.
@Brian Holdsworth. Could you make a clip discussion martin luther and his movement?
What is the introduction chant for your channel. I’m trying to figure it out
The Bible is MORE than paint and wood. It's the Word of God. Jim Jones did that in one sermon. He did NOT end well (UNDERSTATEMENT!!! )
There's a verse in Hebrews about trampling the word of God beneath your feet and counting it an unholy thing.
That's what they tried to make Mark do in That Hideous Strength to complete his "objectivity training"
In order for stepping on the Bible to be offensive, the act of stepping on something has to signify disrepsect in the culture you are in. Arguably, in our late, modern Western culture, the act of stepping on something no longer signifies disrespect any more than pointing the sole of your foot towards the person you're sitting next to does (which is still a no-no in Middle Eastern culture).
EDIT: I want to qualify this statement, having thought more about it. I think that stepping on something CAN still communicate disrespect in our late modern, Western culture, but that context is all important in determining how the symbolic act is understood by those who see the act. In these videos of a guy stepping on a Bible and an icon, he has already communicated verbally that he means no disrespect by it. Because of that, we the viewer already have been signaled not to interpret the action as disrespectful. I think that this is one of the major differences between modern and premodern cultures - today we've become more self-aware of how language, including the use of symbolic action, communicates meaning, and we no longer interpret words or actions to have an inherent meaning in and of themselves outside of the communicative context and intent of the communicator.
Is this a good or a bad thing? I'm not sure...
I disagree with your interpretation of what this guy is communicating. His very point is that these things are only objects while we are God’s image, therefore it’s not inappropriate for us to disrespect them… & then proceeds to disrespect them. Disrespect towards the objects was the intent of his actions, no? His very point was that you do not disrespect God by disrespecting these objects, & he was making that point by disrespecting the objects.
I’m not sure what Luther meant by his quote about reason, but the magisterial reformation did not reject reason. You have a whole history with reform churches and the Lutheran Church, and the Anglican Church of the scholastic methodology being used in theology, as well as a respect for tradition and reason. For example, their doctrine of God is right in line with the early and medieval church. They just thought that scripture was primary. The disrespect for reason is much more a product of the 19th century and early 20th century among some evangelicals.
Just curoius: how long will he last if he had tried this w the Quran? In Saudi Arabia? 🤔
But that's why I love Christianity and reject Islam, the former has a sense of the sacred that it doesn't need to inflict on others by force and violence. For the first three centuries Christianity spread peacefully through the Roman empire, it was only later when kings and emperors got involved that "enforcement" crept in. Islam spread by violent conquest from France to India in its very first century.
There are a lot of Prots who seem to believe the bible is the fourth person of the Trinity. They are usually the same ones who say Catholics worship Mary as a deity.
Thank God for our wholistic view of the spiritual and the material. My mind went right to Silence, and to the Burning Bush. Really well said.
Off subject. I like that you spelt wholistic with a 'w'. It means "as a whole", so I don't know why it's spelt " holistic' . It's always worried me since this word started becoming popular.
@@lynncw9202 yeah I don’t like that spelling, I know it’s “more correct” but it’s always seemed like it loses its meaning.
That’s apostasy
Huguenots bashed in icons as idols.
Our Lord drove the *money changers* out of the temple courtyard, because they were exploiting the poor via the exchange rates they had set for buying temple money (the way people could pay to buy an animal to make an offering at the temple without having to travel with their own animals from afar). The money changers were "skimming off the top" at the expense of people who didn't know any better.
what is the icon at 9:51 called? I NEED TO FIND IT!!
I don't remember the exact name, but it's something to the "virgen mary in red with baby jesus"
We're so attached to symbols! It's bad to step on bibles because people get stressed by it
Thank you for bringing this to our attention. What the man did was sinfully wrong. Sinfully wrong.
I would only step on a Bible if I was attempting to demonstrate standing on the promises of God & depending on His Word to uphold my being.
I guess my point is that, just as “paint & wood” can be imbued with significance, so can an act. Eating pages from a Bible, for example, could be an act of disrespect, meanwhile we eat the body of Christ in the Eucharist. So eating is not intrinsically irreverent.
In this guy’s case though, his point was that it’s ok to disrespect the objects, so disrespect was his intent.
As a Protestant though, I do resent attaching reverence to a physical object that can be desecrated by man. God’s glory is not accessible to being stepped on, burned, spat on, or used to wipe. I personally wouldn’t step on an icon, because I respect what it symbolises, but I resent that we have given such symbolism to objects that can be stepped on. It goes against the spirit of the commandment to not make graven images.
Silence by Shusaku Endo is an excellent book for those who haven't read it. Highly recommended.
Hallelujah! Brian Holdsworth
has been a huge part of my transformation,
God is good 🙌🙌 ,l was owning a loan
of $47,000 to the bank for my son's brain
surgery (Oscar), now I'm no longer in debt
after I invested $9,500 and got my payout
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I read the book Silence , if given the choice between stepping on an icon or saving someone's life i would be torn, is the piece of wood more valuable then a human life? Or is stepping on it a rejection of Christ?
Rejection of Christ
I never understood why Christians treated their bible so bad. I have all sorts of bibles but even my old ones look brand new and will last forever. Treat your bibles good before they take it off the market. This country is becoming like China each and every day soon they will probably wont make physical bibles anymore sadly and they will take your online bible away from you too so treat your bible like its your last.
Setting aside anything else to make his arguement valid logically you would have to have it say something like:
Humans are more valuable than x, it is okay to step on humans, therefore it is okay to step on x.
That'd be logically valid, but the second premise is false.
To put it simply, the relative value of humans and x tells you nothing about whether humans should step on x.
No Christian would ever spit on a crucifix because of what it represents. I don't get what is so difficult about this.
They do realizr this is an Insult to Japanese Christians right
I deny Jesus
If a group of 4 Christians were freezing to death with a bible between them,
But the bible could be used to make fire somehow,
Would they be blameless if they used it as fire to protect themselves?
I bet this dude wouldn’t spit on a picture of his nearest and dearest deceased relative.
If the picture had backups i'm sure it would be no problem. That was part of his argument, that the words of the bible are much more important than the physical book itself. The memory of the dead relative is much more important than a $1 printout
@@JD-yx7be Yet it is still a sign of disrespect to step on an image of a love one. Print an image of your wife and take it to her and step on it in front of you might start understanding what is being said here.
How do these people not understand symbols? It's a symbol. It stands in for the thing it symbolizes. That's why it's offensive to people, not because the icon ITSELF is holy.
We should do an experiment. What if we take the pride flag and set it on fire and stomp it out? Would that offend this person? Obviously, it shouldn't because it's just a flag with some dye applied to it, and flags aren't important.
No he regularly calls the media fake and gay. I would check out his podcast to see his response
Totally off topic, but here is a serious question I wish you would address one day. To be clear, this has absolutely nothing to do with political correctness, nor am I trying to be a smarta**. It genuinely bugs me, and I imagine it would bother other folks if they thought about it. To wit -
God is our Ultimate Father. Therefore, God is male. Male implies a feminine counterpart, otherwise, maleness would make no sense. It's like south without north, left without right, up without down, and on and on. One without the other isn't even possible.
So...where is Miss God? I don't say "Mrs." because I can't imagine who would have the authority to perform God's wedding, but still, the basic question prevails; where is Miss God?
(Pulling out the Asherah card doesn't count.)
Well, God is a Supreme being.Who is powerful enough to create living creatures and the universe. because God doesn't have human gualities and limitations,meaning he doesn't need a female companion .
Also, God is a spiritual being without an end .Meaning God doesn't need a female counterpart to do anything. We as humans do need a male/female partner to reproduce because that is what God chose for humanity
I don't think God being The Father requires a female counterpart, because not all of being a father requires there to be a mother.
Gonna big steppie in the bible!
Comment for the algo
It is just a book.
He's not a Christian.
PERFECT!!!!!!
Its disrespectful. But as someone suffering from ocd I actually heard that some therapists recommend this to their patients a s kind of erp but I couldnt do it.
Those therapists are evil. Most therapists these days are doing more harm than good. They're in the business of keeping their patients sick so they don't lose their custom.
In defense of the Twitter person, Hezekiah destroyed the snake from Numbers as an idol. This is why Catholic is a different religion then Protestant. Praying to icons is a corner stone to that faith, but Protestantism is democratic rejecting all icons.
How often does this need to be repeated? All the arguments were aired at the 7th Ecumenical Council in 787. If one rejects icons one denies the Incarnation, which is the cornerstone of the Christian faith.
@@henrybn14ar Protestantism would argue veneration of icons is idolatry and Scripture, but if Scripture were the authority of Christianity, then everyone would eat kosher.
Spreading the image as a thumbnail doesn’t help…
If it's just a book, then why are you stepping on it? People don't step on books and then post it on social media.
I don't even like the video thumbnail
This is why I will not receive communion at a novus ordo Mass anymore. Because I do not want to step on particles of Our Lord that fall on the floor because people are receiving in the hand and a paten is not being used. But it's amazing to me how many people don't have a problem with this. I guess it goes back to what you are saying about people not having a problem with stepping on icons of Our Lord or the Bible.😢
2:03 well, as far as I’m concerned, wood and paint doesn’t blaspheme the Lord, commit adultery, sloth, envy, etc. So yeah, as a human being who definitely sins a lot more than wood and paint, that’s reasonable.
Yeah people should step on an icon to avoid death. Dumb take.
A picture of Jesus is an idol, so why would Christians have a problem stepping on an idol?
Lmfao. Imagine being offended by someone stepping on your favorite farytale book.
And then making a 12-minute video essay.😂
Attacking Protestants on this Catholic channel is nothing but click bait!!! All a Catholic podcaster has to do is feature a criticism of Protestants and WOW ... thousands of likes! Try doing a podcast on evangelism ...
Which part of Brian’s video did you interpret to be an “attack”?
@@HowToBeChristian the entire concept of the video ... click bait. Whenever a Catholic says "Christian" he means Protestant so from the title, it was clear this was going to be about a Protestant.
@@kristinechristlieb1383
So click bait is an attack now, chill
There are Protestants that do respect the Bible. This isn't an attack on anything, it's only making a clarification.
@@kristinechristlieb1383 I think he chose to use "Christian" in the title to address the fact that he is talking about someone who claims to follow the teachings of Christ stepping on a Bible, as opposed to one who denies those teachings. What traditions within Christianity that the person follows is not very relevant, so why he would use that alternate meaning you suggest is beyond me
This guy may not be educated on how icons are created. It’s a lot more than wood and paint. Ignorance
1:04 well it was a picture of mary, soo
Miserable souls lol 🙏🏻🙌🏻🕊🌹🔥
Not a Christian lol
Not funny. I’ll pray for you.😊 God bless you.
Putting books over spiritual authorities is calvanism..
All you should be doing is learning Spanish if your in America or converting to Islam in Europe in restoring holy communion
maybe he should do that to the koran and post it to youtube and see the reaction.
It's important to understand the philosophy of the long march through the institutions.
The reason the leftists don't criticize Islam the way they criticize Christianity is because they do not what to burn their bridges.
You may as well be asking why Israel is bothering with Palestine when Iran exists.
Exactly. He wouldn't dare because he's a coward.
@@marvalice3455 i’ll add to that: the reason why they don’t criticize Islam like the way they criticize Christianity is because they won’t face any consequences for criticizing Christianity like they won’t be put to death. Do that to Islam and the Quran and their phony prophet and then there’s all hell to pay.
Your analogy of a library and books without a library you can buy your own books and have your own library, you don’t have to adhere to all the rules. You can enjoy stories without having to believe their real. I don’t read Dracula novel and believe that there are vampires But I still enjoy it
It’s very easy to say Christianity makes a nice society and it’s all because of religion and the Bible, but try living 500 years ago under the church, it’s only because we have stopped believing rigidly stopped being fundamental in the most part that Christianity is acceptable. The same cannot be said about Islam, which is what Christianity was 500 years ago. So I do get Dawkins it might sound confusing but without the religious side without believing in God some of the Christian traditions are very nice you don’t have to believe to appreciate something.
You literally don't have a point😂