Awesome to see Intel enforcing dual-channel memory for the Arc certification! Makes it way easier for the consumer to tell they'll get max iGPU performance
If you meant asynchronous dual channel mode with differing sizes of ram. Intel and amd already have that, part of the ram runs in dual channel speed and the extra is just slower
"Arc" certification is largely a gimmick nobody really cares about, just like "Intel Ultrabook" certification from years ago. Why? Because the terms are so loose and varied and they just hand it to any manufacturer who works with Intel for R&D.
@@Sheltur_0311 wrong - you actually do "Ultra" are named with 3 diggits: 1st digit - generation, currently all ultra cpus are 1** -> by looking at next examples, it is clearly seen that next generation will be 2** 2nd digit - tier segmentation, *2* - *3* are "Ultra 5", while *5* - *7* are "Ultra 7" so simple comparison to i5 and i7 3rd digit - overall "tier' of that CPU, higher number here = higher TDP and higher clock (gpu, cpu or both) example Ultra 5 134U vs Ultra 5 135U only difference in those 2 are: - 150MHz GPU clock difference - increased CPU base from 9 to 15W - increased CPU Turbo power from 30W to 57W I mean - this is REALLY smart move from intel do you want them to release another generation with 5 digit naming? xd
These new iGPUS make it actually sensible to go without a GPU on a laptop. I really hope we get this iGPU performance on the 15th gen desktop chips. I still see people using i9-7900X's and 1080Ti's that say they will upgrade when Intel 15th Gen and RTX 5000 series come out. Props to them for the longevity.
15th gen desktop cpus.... I've not been following any rumors/leaks on those, but this time I truly hope that the desktops will be getting equal process node and feature improvements as laptops get. 11th gen was bad for Intel when desktops were being far worse than laptops. It hurt laptop reputation also.
Intel made a right step in right direction and most importantly achieved all of that with in house chip packaging made out of chiplets/tiles also from the TSMC which is pretty cool. I think this in house chiplets/tiles packaging deserves also a lot of credit as Intel is on to something probably even more advanced, than AMD. I wonder what Apple will do with their M chips eventually when they will need to cut them in chiplets as well.
This lineup is really smart on Intel's part. It allows them to bin their CPU's and have a wider margin for error on their manufacturing. Instead of trying to shoe-horn production into just a couple SKU's, they take a broad range of manufacturing "defects" and bin them to whatever performance lines up with the SKU, being slightly conservative. The silicone lottery is alive and well.
@@damara2268 4 years late??? intel did this b4 amd create Vcache and ciplet.. intel pioneer ciplet CPU not AMD..intel did this with their pentium cpu in early 2000 and abandoned it because it's unpractical on that time
while im happy that intel now has something competitive to keep AMD in check im a bit concerned about performance consistency being all over the place i hope that the fix it within the generation and not gatekeep it to later generation like apo and 12/13th gen.
@@Lollllllzi stil think its also intel issue. however i think intel will resolve it quickly since the success of meteor lake is very important for them.
it’s not enough, strix releasing soon will battle meteor lake probably and then strix halo, the actual big improvement is going to drive it home even more before intel even releases their next chips
wouldn't it be smart to normalize battery life per Wh of battery, when the devices have so very different battery specs? I mean, for example in the heavy load test (2:19) The Zenbook 14 (1) has 1.77 min/Wh, wheras the Zenbook 13 (2) has 1.76 min/Wh of battery life. So basically identical ?
I agree with you. However, reviewers normally account for the price of the product. And price matters more for most consumers, but it does seem very unfair to compare two processors in battery life with two very different battery sizes. These seem to go to double digit difference in Wh!
Great to see Intel finally innovating, but in terms of igpu they are matching AMD not overcoming it. And yeah 16 gigs of ram in dual channel is a must, considering some smartphones have 12 to 16 gigs olready.
I do agree but don't forget the RX 700M IGPs have several years of driver development behind them whereas ARC doesn't. Especially when you consider the ARC dGPU and IGP driver branches are separate
@@HardwareCanucks I'm pretty sure that the driver branches are the same. The Intel ARC graphics driver do support/(are the same on) Intel's 11-14th gen series, you can check it on their Driver support page
I want to see a couple months of reviews and driver improvements, but I'm really excited to see where Meteor Lake can end up. So much new stuff here. Give it time.... Thank you!
A proposed solution to the Intel CPU gaming scheme: For desktop parts, instead of having the "i" before i3, i5, etc., have "d" for desktop. For laptops, have "m" for mobile. The rest of their naming scheme can stay the same. For example, the Intel m5 15600K and Intel d5 15600k. That would make things really easy for consumers. I may be overlooking a factor, but it shouldn't be that difficult.
I actually think it's better when the desktop and mobile parts have different naming schemes. The chips are bound to be very different regarding core and iGPU configs. Calling them (almost) the same would be eerily similar to NVIDIA, who currently offers "4090" GPUs in notebooks that are basically underclocked 4080 desktop chips.
@asdfjkloe I understand but most people buying laptops aren't into tech like you and I. As it is, most people only check to see if a computer/laptop is an i3, i5, i7, or i9.
Dave was spot on. Intel launched a brand new architecture and node that barely catches up to AMD and Apple's last gen offerings and still uses more power. Hawkpoint is already launching. Why do you think there are now these two naming schemes? Probably because Intel is struggling with another node shrink and yields are terrible. The majority of units are going to be raptor lake refresh. This is just a paper launch for marketing. Stop doing these mental gymnastics to make meteor lake look appealing.
@@j340_official That's the GPU. I don't care about gaming. I'm more interested in overall performance and AI support. But even leaks suggest that HP should have a small boost in gaming too. And Strix Point and Halo should be here by the summer offering performance closer to a 3050 and 4060/70 respectively. I'm just shaking my head because Intel has dropped the ball so hard going as far back as 2017. Starting with the constant 10nm delays to - well - this coming out a year late. It's just embarrassing and really pisses me off how far they've fallen.
Amd is ready to milking fanboy with the same cpu and gpu as you can see they already confirmed ryzen 8000 series featured the same cpu and same radeon 780m too except with added half baked ai chip which is obviously inferior than the one on Intel meteor lake. When Amd releasing 8000 series, Intel is ready with Arrow Lake which also has Battlemage igpu. Things gonna be worse for Amd.
I knew the performance on this processor sucked right now in inconsistency at least. I watched a review of a laptop with this processor on the Toasty Bros and they were saying how good it was. I could only think how bad it was because they tested one of my favorite games overwatch on it, and not only was it not even close to as good as my new laptop with an 13th gen i5 and rtx 3050 but it sat like right next to my old laptop in performance which has a ryzen 5 3500u processer with Vega 8 integrated graphics.
Indeed. How can they call this "nailing it"? Good generational improvements in many aspects for sure, but such large inconsistencies are a very major issue.
Something simillar to intel arc last year. Meteor lake is basically a new area for intel even they already mastered cpu chips. We have to wait see this platform matured over time
What is worse is that different laptops have different 1. Cooling Capacities 2. Power Limit Range (something Intel allows manufacturers to change howerever they want, that end-users can never modify) 3. Default Power Profiles baked-in to OS
I'm just hoping either intel or AMD could approach M1's battery life and power efficiency. The M1 macbook is more than 3 years old now yet they're still in high demand. It even entices me, a lifelong windows user, considering its battery life is unmatched by anything near its price range
honestly i can't understand why availability of 7040 in thin & light laptops is so bad even after a year from the launch. It will be a joke if meteor lake laptops come first to online market of our country before Hawk Point loll
Amd still gonna milking fanboy with the same chip and gpu because Amd 8000 series will be massive disappointment because it was confirmed to be 7000 series refresh with the same radeon 780m except they added their half backed ai chip. Meanwhile Intel at that time gonna rocking their second tile chip with new cpu arc and battlemage gpu too for 2024.
@@DavinmkHe spams this forgetting Intel just did the same thing with 14th gen. Unlike 14th gen, Hawxpoint has some changes, like better AI performance and Zen 4 cores across the lineup.
that blender benchmark would've sold me in a heartbeat if i don't consider high fps gaming on it. looks like i'm still putting the zenbook pro on my bucket list
E-cores are space-efficient, not power-efficient, so it's great to see Intel doing _something_ to address the power draw problem. Looking forward to a revisit when the inconsistency is sorted out.
@@lordec911perf/watt and power draw are two different things. E-cores have higher perf/watt than P-cores but they likely operated at clocks too high to improve battery life. Unlike big.LITTLE, all cores are on and chugging power. Plus Intel never advertised the E-cores as a means of improving battery life, reducing overall power consumption nor heat. They really exist to add more CPU cores within a reasonable space budget.
Intel's E-cores aren't, otherwise E-cores are generally both more area and power efficient than P-cores. On the Apple M1 for example an E-core takes up 1/4 the space and draws 1/10 the power of a P-core.
@@lordec911 Smaller cores are fundamentally more area *and* power efficient. Scaling is very roughly square, so if you make a core twice as big it gets 41% faster rather than 100% faster.
Glad there is some good results to be seen. A lot of doubters around this new approach. This seems mostly to catch up with the latest Ryzen stuff for performance roughly speaking (in some ways beating it, in some ways losing) -- I call that a truly competitive market, and it can only mean good things for keeping all companies on their toes having to try harder to be better! Very curious how they approach this dis-aggregated design for socketed desktop, since efficiency isn't really championed there so much. Arrow Lake will happen next, so we'll see what they do! I wouldn't mind a faster iGPU on desktop, personally. Not at all. Also, think of the mini PCs with this, finally something efficient enough to compete with the new Apple stuff in some workflows, hopefully without costing quite as much. For a tiny home server that sits mostly idle, I'd want something that sips power. Either something like this or an R Pi.
The good part is chiplet approach not just give intel benefit in efficiency but more importantly the ease of upgrade. What i mean is with chiplet/tile packaging intel can release new gen of processor without upgrading entire chiplets inside the packaging. It also help intel achieve higher yields. Such approach just make live of intel engineers easier so i hope they will able to innovate faster.
this is genuinely game changing, arm like-ish battery (ik arm is still more power efficient, please dont d-ride m1 like always oml) with the compatibility of x86
Yep, i pretty much hyped to this Intel Meteor Lake because it has Arm cpu efficiency while still having x86 cpu greatness unlike Apple overrated m series chip which barely having software and game support.
depending on what your' looking when you use laptops, but judging from battery life alone i think meteor lake is worth the wait especially if you can't find simillar laptop with amd ryzen 7040/8040 series yet.
if you can find CHEAP Ryzen 7040 laptops, then I would say go for it, once these are available will be very similar to them but also more expensive, I am afraid. Waiting for more reviews and data is never bad, since new and better software gets released for all laptops.
Omg... intel going back to dual p-core cpus again.. oh shit. In Australia, I can barely find AMD laptops. Every laptop - and I mean everyone has intel chips. AMD chips are offering higher or similar perf at high efficiency, with 8 full power cores vs intel offering 2, 4 and 6 p cores + a bunch of weaksauce cores. This reeks of under the table deals by intel and retailers (again)!
While it definitely is great that Intel caught up to AMD in laptops... well, they have just caught up. However, the 21h battery result you got is exciting. No other reviewer today has had this result, and I watched many lol I hope with more work from Intel (yes, I do think firmware and drivers from Intel are partly an issue too) the battery life will be much better which is the main selling point, and not the performance that we could have already had for many months with AMD Phoenix Zen 4
@@HardwareCanucks Is it even possible to test battery in a synthetic test? Other test I have seen from other reviewers is youtube/netflix videos, a VLC video with airplane mode on, a script that opens websites and browses (and not just refreshes the same one, although, I assume the load ends up being the same one), and then an idle one that, while unrealistic, does help to know the efficiency of the chip if nothing else. All of those are real life workloads. I do agree that the 'load' tests are mostly cinebench on repeat, which is synthetic, so maybe that's where real life testing is better. I am excited to see if after firmware and driver changes more tests and workloads will have the extreme battery life you got in your browser refresh test! Remaining hopeful
Thanks AMD and Qualcomm. Intel probably would have kept cruising along if there wasn't a bit of pressure on them. I am interested to see how the 'snapdragon x elite' and zen5 shake things up next summer. Personally holding off until thunderbolt 5, which looks to be a gen beyond arrow lake.
Kinda disappointed that a brand new lineup from Intel barely competes with AMDs products that they released a year ago. Especially with a brand new node, Intel 4/7nm which is the equivalent of TSMCs 3 nm. Their single threaded performance is even on pair with their previous generation such as 1360P and 13700H.
Is the architecture of Qualcomm Arm or x86? Qualcomm is currently unable to compete with Arm architecture since it is not yet ready to outperform x86/64 under Windows.
@@dickdastardly4801 the average user doesn't care about architecture. It's about performance and efficiency, M3 has already surpassed the upcoming snapdragon, Intel just caught up in efficiency and AMD will do even better next year. By the time the new Arm PCs come out there will be nothing special about them.
@@melkalwith how bad windows arm experience is, yeah people definitely gonna care about architecture. unless Microsoft can fix those issues nobody gonna buy windows arm pc. look windows on arm are really halfbaked experience with how spotty software support is
like the ultra-low power cores, still wish amd did the same. lately i've been thinking, why not make a single ultra-powered core, a couple of "normal" cores, and a single ultra-low powered core(for single-thread, multi-thread and idle, respectively)
AMD will likely do the same, but at this moment, Intel is burning the world to the ground to come close to AMD's performance. AMD just needs to keep on executing on its plan, and Intel has to hope to it's silicon God that it can keep up.
@@HardwareCanucks 7000 and 8000 don't denote architecture. 8040 is a refresh (Zen 4, by the name) but that's not all the 8000 chips that will come out next year. 7000 series have even Zen 2 mendocino chips with very outdated performance, meant for ultra-budget laptops. 8050 processors will contain Zen 5 laptops with a big jump in performance. I don't know what @allergictobs9751 meant, if Hawk point or strix, but the latter will most likely be much ahead of this. Even matching their competiton is still very good for Intel though, compared to where they have been until now
@@Davinmk It isn't coming until 2H 2024, and knowing AMD it will be a quarter or two after that before they get into the market with any real volume. That gets them pretty much to the release time of Intel Arrow Lake and Lunar Lake.
I fail to see the excitement portrayed in this "preview". The iGPU finally getting an update to match 2024 iGPU expectations is nothing to brag about; it is what we should expect after years of being messed about with Iris graphics. The 35-watt single-core results are similar to two years ago's Intel chips, with multicore higher because of extra cores/threads. I am not sold on the efficiency improvements and await real-world results using it in a mixed workload. But the reviews suggest similar efficiency to the last-gen at the same wattage. But let us be fair and give it a few months to optimise Windows, OEM firmware and apps and then revisit.
I just upgraded from EliteBook 5850U to EliteBook 835 G10 7840U with 32GB and Samsung 990 Pro 2TB, came out about USD1,650 with 5G/LTE, and it is nice, everything working out of box on Linux (Opensuse Tumbleweed); just wish it had 60-70Wh battery. I was looking into X13 or T14s as comeback to ThinkPad but went with EliteBook - availability, price and more silent operation.
1:27 the graphs don't make much sense though. Why would a 6800U with 67Wh outperform a 7840S with 70Wh by *6* hours? Probably different windows power plan ...
Nope. Nothing different there. The 6800U has the capability to put itself into a dynamically lower power state than the 7840S. One of the tradeoffs Lenovo made with their "S" models is slightly higher low load power consumption. In addition, you also have to take things such as screen size, resolution, refresh rate, cell size, memory speeds, etc etc. into account.
21 hours of battery life under light load? What page are you guys reloading every 15 seconds? Every single other reviewer doesn't get anywhere near close to that kind of battery life. The most I've seen has been 15 hours, but realistically people are getting between 9 and 12 hours of battery life.
As if consumers weren't confused enough by hundreds of models from every brand , intel and Amd decided to worsen it with their naming scheme . Just keep it simple like Apple silicon for fks sake ! 1) Something like Inter core lite (i3) , Intel core (i5) , Intel core pro( i7) ,Intel core ultra or pro max(i9). 2) Next two character represents the generation eg: 14th, 15th gen etc 3) Finally last suffix represents special characteristics and power lvl eg: H , U, P etc 4) With this name scheme there would be : intel core 15 lite , intel core 15U/H/P , intel core 15H/HX pro , intel core 15H/HX ultra. Replace " Intel core" with " Ryzen" for AMD . No weird long string of numbers , no 6 different versions of same chip with different prices and best part is even if someone unfamiliar with tech and cpu sees the name they can take a good guess on what to choose since this name scheme is common in smartphones too ! You don't need to break your head over a cpu :)
Why in the world would you assume the performance variance is due to Asus’ build quality or lack thereof? It feels obvious to me that the first culprit to look at would be the new thread scheduler and/or the introduction of a THIRD distinct core type that Windows’ and Intel’s own schedulers have to account for.
The schedulers become very much irrelevant when pushing a full core workload. It would potentially be an issue if we'd only be talking about lightly threaded scenarios wherein the scheduler is much more involved in directing traffic interactions whereas in a full core load it just says "everything here".
Interesting to see where the laptop industry is moving💪👍. Being a new architecture, like Ryzen and Alder Lake, Meteor ☄Lake is going to need some time and maturity of drivers, windows scheduling etc 🤔and give it a solid 12-month and we’ll see the true nature of how Meteor ☄Lake and how well or bad it truely is🤯. I think tbh, like Ryzens debut, we’ll see a lot of teething issues, inconsistencies (as shown), performance issues, battery life concerns etc. But it seems Intel is pulling AMD and trying fro the fine wine 🍷approach 😅😂🤣
proud of you intel , an igpu basic in everything chipset that allows you 60fps EVEN in modern GAMES. i remember registry mods tricks file swaps and a volt trick to get the INTEL hi definition graphics to even run at "20" fps until i invented an upscaling mode of pure pixel until you correct and sharpen at rate and BOOM NITRO made intel ARC GRAPHICS...
This is only renamed raptor lake with 22 threads and new igpu while single core of meteor lake are actually around same as of 13700h or something lower
Hello, Need a suggestion from your end if you can help out my purchase decision 1. Zenbook 14X (i7-13700H) for $700 2. G14 (7735HS) for $900 3. Slim Pro 7 X (6800HS-CE) for $800 If not any of these which one would you suggest to be the best buy under $900. Much love, thanks
It's still a good buy, but I fully understand the feeling. I got a Dell Latitude 7420 a few months before the Intel 12th gen P series was released. 😢😢 When the Dell Latitude 7450 gets released with 14th gen U series gets released, I'm upgrading.
lol, even the AMD paper launch for that is a long way away and then real supply doesn't even show up in the market until another 1-2 quarters and even that is in far fewer design wins and lower volume.
The reason why Intel and AMD have so many unnecessary skews is to limit the commoditization effect for manufacturers and resellers. The confusion allows everyone to make more money. Apple on the other hand has very few skews because they do everything thus streamline to save on costs. The con is Apple prices are outrageous especially on iPhone where tiny bumps in storage that cost Apple only a few dollars is sold for hundreds of dollars of additional markup.
I think you're overselling it a bit. Cinebench and Geekbench show IPC regression. The fact that the current AMD chips which are about to be succeeded by Hawk Point, are still very competitive with Meteor Lake, can't be understated.
I feel like this is Intel finally catching up with AMD. And since AMD Next Gen is around the corner. I wonder how good will it be. Good thing intel is finally awake for Ultra Laptops
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Awesome to see Intel enforcing dual-channel memory for the Arc certification! Makes it way easier for the consumer to tell they'll get max iGPU performance
with a minimum of 16gb too!?
I was hoping that they would not need to be dual, that is perform like dual-channel even when in mixed parallel, as ARM chips do.
If you meant asynchronous dual channel mode with differing sizes of ram. Intel and amd already have that, part of the ram runs in dual channel speed and the extra is just slower
I hope they do not cave in just like many monitors did with the whole HDR ULTRA.
"Arc" certification is largely a gimmick nobody really cares about, just like "Intel Ultrabook" certification from years ago. Why? Because the terms are so loose and varied and they just hand it to any manufacturer who works with Intel for R&D.
This naming scheme makes my brain hurt
It is actually much simpler. And does not require 5 diggits lile intel core
@@Karti200but now we wont know what year/generation it is
@@Sheltur_0311because intel restarted the gen naming with Ultra branding.
@@Sheltur_0311 wrong - you actually do
"Ultra" are named with 3 diggits:
1st digit - generation, currently all ultra cpus are 1** -> by looking at next examples, it is clearly seen that next generation will be 2**
2nd digit - tier segmentation, *2* - *3* are "Ultra 5", while *5* - *7* are "Ultra 7"
so simple comparison to i5 and i7
3rd digit - overall "tier' of that CPU, higher number here = higher TDP and higher clock (gpu, cpu or both)
example
Ultra 5 134U vs Ultra 5 135U
only difference in those 2 are:
- 150MHz GPU clock difference
- increased CPU base from 9 to 15W
- increased CPU Turbo power from 30W to 57W
I mean - this is REALLY smart move from intel
do you want them to release another generation with 5 digit naming? xd
They all do. It's brutal especially when so many of the processes are so closely specced
These new iGPUS make it actually sensible to go without a GPU on a laptop. I really hope we get this iGPU performance on the 15th gen desktop chips. I still see people using i9-7900X's and 1080Ti's that say they will upgrade when Intel 15th Gen and RTX 5000 series come out. Props to them for the longevity.
15th gen desktop cpus.... I've not been following any rumors/leaks on those, but this time I truly hope that the desktops will be getting equal process node and feature improvements as laptops get. 11th gen was bad for Intel when desktops were being far worse than laptops. It hurt laptop reputation also.
Intel made a right step in right direction and most importantly achieved all of that with in house chip packaging made out of chiplets/tiles also from the TSMC which is pretty cool. I think this in house chiplets/tiles packaging deserves also a lot of credit as Intel is on to something probably even more advanced, than AMD. I wonder what Apple will do with their M chips eventually when they will need to cut them in chiplets as well.
This lineup is really smart on Intel's part. It allows them to bin their CPU's and have a wider margin for error on their manufacturing. Instead of trying to shoe-horn production into just a couple SKU's, they take a broad range of manufacturing "defects" and bin them to whatever performance lines up with the SKU, being slightly conservative. The silicone lottery is alive and well.
You no have i7 155h 14th Sorry
Amd is doing this already for 4 years... intel is 4 years late
@@damara2268 4 years late??? intel did this b4 amd create Vcache and ciplet.. intel pioneer ciplet CPU not AMD..intel did this with their pentium cpu in early 2000 and abandoned it because it's unpractical on that time
@@damara2268 intel has been doing this since the early 2000s, they just abandoned it cos it was no longer profitable.
@@D0x1511af then why did it now take Intel so so so long to make it work?
while im happy that intel now has something competitive to keep AMD in check im a bit concerned about performance consistency being all over the place i hope that the fix it within the generation and not gatekeep it to later generation like apo and 12/13th gen.
I actually don't think it's a MTL issue. This is a Zenbook firmware problem.
@@HardwareCanucks ah that's reassuring to hear hope they can bring out a fix soon
@@Lollllllzi stil think its also intel issue. however i think intel will resolve it quickly since the success of meteor lake is very important for them.
@@HardwareCanucks the chip has been performing like that in other leaks, it’s the chip
it’s not enough, strix releasing soon will battle meteor lake probably and then strix halo, the actual big improvement is going to drive it home even more before intel even releases their next chips
wouldn't it be smart to normalize battery life per Wh of battery, when the devices have so very different battery specs? I mean, for example in the heavy load test (2:19) The Zenbook 14 (1) has 1.77 min/Wh, wheras the Zenbook 13 (2) has 1.76 min/Wh of battery life. So basically identical ?
I agree with you. However, reviewers normally account for the price of the product. And price matters more for most consumers, but it does seem very unfair to compare two processors in battery life with two very different battery sizes. These seem to go to double digit difference in Wh!
That's a great idea.
"The best is yet to come" has been Arc's motto since it came out. Remember how bad the Arc cards ran on release? Yeah, they're a lot better now.
They still suck but yea now they suck less
going from unusuable to bad compared to the competition isn’t much of an improvement
Intel put out bios update that solves inconsistency with performance. Mathew Monitz made a video about it. Huge difference.
Great to see Intel finally innovating, but in terms of igpu they are matching AMD not overcoming it. And yeah 16 gigs of ram in dual channel is a must, considering some smartphones have 12 to 16 gigs olready.
I do agree but don't forget the RX 700M IGPs have several years of driver development behind them whereas ARC doesn't. Especially when you consider the ARC dGPU and IGP driver branches are separate
@HardwareCanucks Yeah it will be interesting to see how the Arc compares to the Rx 700s, once driver updates roll out. Great video!
@@HardwareCanucks I'm pretty sure that the driver branches are the same. The Intel ARC graphics driver do support/(are the same on) Intel's 11-14th gen series, you can check it on their Driver support page
@@Noodles1922 And nothing use it
I want to see a couple months of reviews and driver improvements, but I'm really excited to see where Meteor Lake can end up. So much new stuff here. Give it time....
Thank you!
A proposed solution to the Intel CPU gaming scheme: For desktop parts, instead of having the "i" before i3, i5, etc., have "d" for desktop. For laptops, have "m" for mobile. The rest of their naming scheme can stay the same. For example, the Intel m5 15600K and Intel d5 15600k. That would make things really easy for consumers. I may be overlooking a factor, but it shouldn't be that difficult.
Call me a pessimist.. But having things too simple might result in lost sales of higher priced chips...
I actually think it's better when the desktop and mobile parts have different naming schemes. The chips are bound to be very different regarding core and iGPU configs. Calling them (almost) the same would be eerily similar to NVIDIA, who currently offers "4090" GPUs in notebooks that are basically underclocked 4080 desktop chips.
@asdfjkloe I understand but most people buying laptops aren't into tech like you and I. As it is, most people only check to see if a computer/laptop is an i3, i5, i7, or i9.
Wadayamean i cannot put M5 into my pisi, i aint playing on no D5 and pumping my pisi with diesel - a customer, I imagine
@@asdfjkloeit's easier to remember that i9 are top available models for that segment, even though mobile and desktop are different
Great overall video. Really excited to see Meteor Lake in more laptops with the better 165H chip
A much much better review than the one Dave2D gave
yes I was a bit disappointed of him
Haven't had time to watch his yet. What were the differences? Either way, I'm glad ours was helpful.
Dave was spot on. Intel launched a brand new architecture and node that barely catches up to AMD and Apple's last gen offerings and still uses more power. Hawkpoint is already launching. Why do you think there are now these two naming schemes? Probably because Intel is struggling with another node shrink and yields are terrible. The majority of units are going to be raptor lake refresh. This is just a paper launch for marketing. Stop doing these mental gymnastics to make meteor lake look appealing.
This is amazing. AMD needs competition else it might pull an intel on us
Intel dominate laptop CPU market share though, so AMD have no room for complacency
This is not competition. They've caught up and are a year late in doing so. When Hawk Point comes out in a month or so they'll be behind again.
@@domenicpolsoni8370hawk point is reusing the 780m
@@j340_official That's the GPU. I don't care about gaming. I'm more interested in overall performance and AI support. But even leaks suggest that HP should have a small boost in gaming too. And Strix Point and Halo should be here by the summer offering performance closer to a 3050 and 4060/70 respectively.
I'm just shaking my head because Intel has dropped the ball so hard going as far back as 2017. Starting with the constant 10nm delays to - well - this coming out a year late. It's just embarrassing and really pisses me off how far they've fallen.
Amd is ready to milking fanboy with the same cpu and gpu as you can see they already confirmed ryzen 8000 series featured the same cpu and same radeon 780m too except with added half baked ai chip which is obviously inferior than the one on Intel meteor lake.
When Amd releasing 8000 series, Intel is ready with Arrow Lake which also has Battlemage igpu. Things gonna be worse for Amd.
I want to see a comparison of the core ultra 9 185H and the ryzen 9 8945HS
will be the same as 155H vs the 7840U. Differences should be very little, as one is just slightly better binned and the other one is a refresh
@@VideogamesAsArt but I want AI performance comparison too, as that is the main selling point of the refresh
@@ofir123456789o what 155 H his competitor is 7840H Not U
Interesting that Intel managed to make their line-up naming scheme even more confusing, it's a feat considering that it was already confusing
I knew the performance on this processor sucked right now in inconsistency at least. I watched a review of a laptop with this processor on the Toasty Bros and they were saying how good it was. I could only think how bad it was because they tested one of my favorite games overwatch on it, and not only was it not even close to as good as my new laptop with an 13th gen i5 and rtx 3050 but it sat like right next to my old laptop in performance which has a ryzen 5 3500u processer with Vega 8 integrated graphics.
Damn, i bought a 14x recently. That was a BAD decision
Fan noise ?
Not a macbook, but very acceptable for my taste.
Looks sick! That Titan on your monitor in the background is trying to get it's hands on that laptop.
That performance variance is insane, what is happening
Indeed. How can they call this "nailing it"? Good generational improvements in many aspects for sure, but such large inconsistencies are a very major issue.
@@thelegendaryklobb2879cuse intel gave em a big stack of cash
Something simillar to intel arc last year. Meteor lake is basically a new area for intel even they already mastered cpu chips. We have to wait see this platform matured over time
Its an engineering sample he said it in the video.
What is worse is that different laptops have different
1. Cooling Capacities
2. Power Limit Range (something Intel allows manufacturers to change howerever they want, that end-users can never modify)
3. Default Power Profiles baked-in to OS
Why didn't you mention gpu power draw during gpu benchmark? How will we know whether arc is drawing more power than amd intregated gpu or not
We will going forward but the measuring tools we have don't report accurate power draw on RX 700 IGPs or ARC for now.
I'm just hoping either intel or AMD could approach M1's battery life and power efficiency. The M1 macbook is more than 3 years old now yet they're still in high demand. It even entices me, a lifelong windows user, considering its battery life is unmatched by anything near its price range
They only manage by shitcanning 32-bit. intel and AMD still have to cater towards 32-bit applications being used.
New Qualcomm elite arm chip running alongside windows 12 mid year. Will see.
Seeing as 7040 series laptop availability hasn't been great having intel back up to speed is good.
honestly i can't understand why availability of 7040 in thin & light laptops is so bad even after a year from the launch. It will be a joke if meteor lake laptops come first to online market of our country before Hawk Point loll
Amd still gonna milking fanboy with the same chip and gpu because Amd 8000 series will be massive disappointment because it was confirmed to be 7000 series refresh with the same radeon 780m except they added their half backed ai chip. Meanwhile Intel at that time gonna rocking their second tile chip with new cpu arc and battlemage gpu too for 2024.
@@runninginthe90s75you spam the same copy pasta under every comment, halo strix will absolutely dog walk
@@runninginthe90s75You mean like Intel did with 14th gen?
@@DavinmkHe spams this forgetting Intel just did the same thing with 14th gen. Unlike 14th gen, Hawxpoint has some changes, like better AI performance and Zen 4 cores across the lineup.
that blender benchmark would've sold me in a heartbeat if i don't consider high fps gaming on it. looks like i'm still putting the zenbook pro on my bucket list
Intel arc software will get better overtime, but yeah its not going to give you extra 2x performance anyway
Nailed it into a coffin?
What's the RAM speed of your test unit?
E-cores are space-efficient, not power-efficient, so it's great to see Intel doing _something_ to address the power draw problem. Looking forward to a revisit when the inconsistency is sorted out.
One of the bullet points about E-cores, Intel specifically states that they were designed to maximize CPU efficiency, i.e. performance/watt.
Correct. However the LP-E cores ARE efficient.... Well, low power draw at least
@@lordec911perf/watt and power draw are two different things. E-cores have higher perf/watt than P-cores but they likely operated at clocks too high to improve battery life. Unlike big.LITTLE, all cores are on and chugging power.
Plus Intel never advertised the E-cores as a means of improving battery life, reducing overall power consumption nor heat. They really exist to add more CPU cores within a reasonable space budget.
Intel's E-cores aren't, otherwise E-cores are generally both more area and power efficient than P-cores. On the Apple M1 for example an E-core takes up 1/4 the space and draws 1/10 the power of a P-core.
@@lordec911 Smaller cores are fundamentally more area *and* power efficient.
Scaling is very roughly square, so if you make a core twice as big it gets 41% faster rather than 100% faster.
Glad there is some good results to be seen. A lot of doubters around this new approach. This seems mostly to catch up with the latest Ryzen stuff for performance roughly speaking (in some ways beating it, in some ways losing) -- I call that a truly competitive market, and it can only mean good things for keeping all companies on their toes having to try harder to be better!
Very curious how they approach this dis-aggregated design for socketed desktop, since efficiency isn't really championed there so much. Arrow Lake will happen next, so we'll see what they do! I wouldn't mind a faster iGPU on desktop, personally. Not at all. Also, think of the mini PCs with this, finally something efficient enough to compete with the new Apple stuff in some workflows, hopefully without costing quite as much. For a tiny home server that sits mostly idle, I'd want something that sips power. Either something like this or an R Pi.
i agree with you, but intel in mobile sector yet is below amd
The good part is chiplet approach not just give intel benefit in efficiency but more importantly the ease of upgrade. What i mean is with chiplet/tile packaging intel can release new gen of processor without upgrading entire chiplets inside the packaging. It also help intel achieve higher yields. Such approach just make live of intel engineers easier so i hope they will able to innovate faster.
this is genuinely game changing, arm like-ish battery (ik arm is still more power efficient, please dont d-ride m1 like always oml) with the compatibility of x86
Yep, i pretty much hyped to this Intel Meteor Lake because it has Arm cpu efficiency while still having x86 cpu greatness unlike Apple overrated m series chip which barely having software and game support.
I wanted to by the qualcomm for that but if the laptops come out soon it will be meteor lake. Qualcomm is late unfortunately.
Like one can get the RAM-speed from the review samples in the final product... Spoilers: You don't.
is it worth waiting till it releases locally or to just buy 13th gen?
depending on what your' looking when you use laptops, but judging from battery life alone i think meteor lake is worth the wait especially if you can't find simillar laptop with amd ryzen 7040/8040 series yet.
absolutely worth waiting. the difference is gigantic. 13th gen and prior are caveman technology in terms of efficiency
If you are looking for a thin and light absolutely wait
if you can find CHEAP Ryzen 7040 laptops, then I would say go for it, once these are available will be very similar to them but also more expensive, I am afraid. Waiting for more reviews and data is never bad, since new and better software gets released for all laptops.
wait, it'll be worth it.
Omg... intel going back to dual p-core cpus again.. oh shit.
In Australia, I can barely find AMD laptops. Every laptop - and I mean everyone has intel chips.
AMD chips are offering higher or similar perf at high efficiency, with 8 full power cores vs intel offering 2, 4 and 6 p cores + a bunch of weaksauce cores.
This reeks of under the table deals by intel and retailers (again)!
let intel enjoy their couple of months victory while we wait for the real next gen cpus from amd
Mike, this was a great and thorough look at Meteor Lake in the wild.
Looking forward to what you bring next - Kudos!
While it definitely is great that Intel caught up to AMD in laptops... well, they have just caught up. However, the 21h battery result you got is exciting. No other reviewer today has had this result, and I watched many lol
I hope with more work from Intel (yes, I do think firmware and drivers from Intel are partly an issue too) the battery life will be much better which is the main selling point, and not the performance that we could have already had for many months with AMD Phoenix Zen 4
You raise a good point. One thing to mention is our battery life test is based on a real world rather than synthetic result.
@@HardwareCanucks Is it even possible to test battery in a synthetic test? Other test I have seen from other reviewers is youtube/netflix videos, a VLC video with airplane mode on, a script that opens websites and browses (and not just refreshes the same one, although, I assume the load ends up being the same one), and then an idle one that, while unrealistic, does help to know the efficiency of the chip if nothing else. All of those are real life workloads.
I do agree that the 'load' tests are mostly cinebench on repeat, which is synthetic, so maybe that's where real life testing is better.
I am excited to see if after firmware and driver changes more tests and workloads will have the extreme battery life you got in your browser refresh test! Remaining hopeful
x86 + windows are the problems.
Intel Iris also did same requiring dual channel to get full Xe count.
Still feeling my i9-13900HX will hold up for few years
Same here with my 7945HX3D
These CPUs in Chromebooks will be crazy :O My i3-1215U in my chromebook already makes it beat my Ryzen 5600x in performance.
And can’t wait to see the battery life!
Thanks AMD and Qualcomm. Intel probably would have kept cruising along if there wasn't a bit of pressure on them. I am interested to see how the 'snapdragon x elite' and zen5 shake things up next summer. Personally holding off until thunderbolt 5, which looks to be a gen beyond arrow lake.
I always liked high performance with near apple quality laptops. They make experiences so much better, so it’s good intel is pushing Meteor Lake out.
Kinda disappointed that a brand new lineup from Intel barely competes with AMDs products that they released a year ago. Especially with a brand new node, Intel 4/7nm which is the equivalent of TSMCs 3 nm. Their single threaded performance is even on pair with their previous generation such as 1360P and 13700H.
it´s dog shit this cpu, at least in igpu section it´s a huge upgrade, but intel forgot cpu enhancements.
Qualcomm should have released laptops when they announced their chips, everyone will have either caught up or surpassed them by next year.
Is the architecture of Qualcomm Arm or x86? Qualcomm is currently unable to compete with Arm architecture since it is not yet ready to outperform x86/64 under Windows.
@@dickdastardly4801 the average user doesn't care about architecture. It's about performance and efficiency, M3 has already surpassed the upcoming snapdragon, Intel just caught up in efficiency and AMD will do even better next year. By the time the new Arm PCs come out there will be nothing special about them.
@@melkal iOS is the operating system for M3. The Windoes on Arm is hardly functional.
@@melkalwith how bad windows arm experience is, yeah people definitely gonna care about architecture. unless Microsoft can fix those issues nobody gonna buy windows arm pc.
look windows on arm are really halfbaked experience with how spotty software support is
Great video! Are you guys going to review the new Dell XPS 14 with Meteor Lake?
Will surely push Amd to release strix series earlier which is a win for consumers, having said that this series don't seem to be that powerful
like the ultra-low power cores, still wish amd did the same.
lately i've been thinking, why not make a single ultra-powered core, a couple of "normal" cores, and a single ultra-low powered core(for single-thread, multi-thread and idle, respectively)
AMD will likely do the same, but at this moment, Intel is burning the world to the ground to come close to AMD's performance. AMD just needs to keep on executing on its plan, and Intel has to hope to it's silicon God that it can keep up.
So they just matching 7000 ryzen, wanna now see these compared to the 8000 series.
8000 is 7000
@@HardwareCanucks 7000 and 8000 don't denote architecture. 8040 is a refresh (Zen 4, by the name) but that's not all the 8000 chips that will come out next year. 7000 series have even Zen 2 mendocino chips with very outdated performance, meant for ultra-budget laptops. 8050 processors will contain Zen 5 laptops with a big jump in performance. I don't know what @allergictobs9751 meant, if Hawk point or strix, but the latter will most likely be much ahead of this. Even matching their competiton is still very good for Intel though, compared to where they have been until now
@@HardwareCanuckswhat he means is how it compares to next gen, which is a very good question as it’s upcoming
@@Davinmk It isn't coming until 2H 2024, and knowing AMD it will be a quarter or two after that before they get into the market with any real volume. That gets them pretty much to the release time of Intel Arrow Lake and Lunar Lake.
I agree, make the maker meet the right, decent specs. Good on them.
I fail to see the excitement portrayed in this "preview". The iGPU finally getting an update to match 2024 iGPU expectations is nothing to brag about; it is what we should expect after years of being messed about with Iris graphics.
The 35-watt single-core results are similar to two years ago's Intel chips, with multicore higher because of extra cores/threads.
I am not sold on the efficiency improvements and await real-world results using it in a mixed workload. But the reviews suggest similar efficiency to the last-gen at the same wattage.
But let us be fair and give it a few months to optimise Windows, OEM firmware and apps and then revisit.
I just upgraded from EliteBook 5850U to EliteBook 835 G10 7840U with 32GB and Samsung 990 Pro 2TB, came out about USD1,650 with 5G/LTE, and it is nice, everything working out of box on Linux (Opensuse Tumbleweed); just wish it had 60-70Wh battery. I was looking into X13 or T14s as comeback to ThinkPad but went with EliteBook - availability, price and more silent operation.
1:27 the graphs don't make much sense though. Why would a 6800U with 67Wh outperform a 7840S with 70Wh by *6* hours? Probably different windows power plan ...
Nope. Nothing different there. The 6800U has the capability to put itself into a dynamically lower power state than the 7840S. One of the tradeoffs Lenovo made with their "S" models is slightly higher low load power consumption. In addition, you also have to take things such as screen size, resolution, refresh rate, cell size, memory speeds, etc etc. into account.
are u sure?
Ofc this happens a week after I get 3hr laptop.
And Intel had the balls to make a PowerPoint to roast AMD's naming scheme
Absolutly nonsense of reality
Glad to see efficiancy is improved. Performance we knew would be a nothingburger. Kinda a tiger lake moment.
This is a pretty heavy step in the right direction for Intel.
21 hours of battery life under light load? What page are you guys reloading every 15 seconds? Every single other reviewer doesn't get anywhere near close to that kind of battery life. The most I've seen has been 15 hours, but realistically people are getting between 9 and 12 hours of battery life.
Can someone tell me in a real life long term use is the Core Ultra 7 155H overheating? Does those cpus get super hot?
Lenovo didn't put my Arc sticker on my new X13 Gen 5 🙃
As if consumers weren't confused enough by hundreds of models from every brand , intel and Amd decided to worsen it with their naming scheme . Just keep it simple like Apple silicon for fks sake !
1) Something like Inter core lite (i3) , Intel core (i5) , Intel core pro( i7) ,Intel core ultra or pro max(i9).
2) Next two character represents the generation eg: 14th, 15th gen etc
3) Finally last suffix represents special characteristics and power lvl eg: H , U, P etc
4) With this name scheme there would be : intel core 15 lite , intel core 15U/H/P , intel core 15H/HX pro , intel core 15H/HX ultra.
Replace " Intel core" with " Ryzen" for AMD .
No weird long string of numbers , no 6 different versions of same chip with different prices and best part is even if someone unfamiliar with tech and cpu sees the name they can take a good guess on what to choose since this name scheme is common in smartphones too ! You don't need to break your head over a cpu :)
P series is gone. HX is irrelevant for 99%+ of people
Why in the world would you assume the performance variance is due to Asus’ build quality or lack thereof? It feels obvious to me that the first culprit to look at would be the new thread scheduler and/or the introduction of a THIRD distinct core type that Windows’ and Intel’s own schedulers have to account for.
The schedulers become very much irrelevant when pushing a full core workload. It would potentially be an issue if we'd only be talking about lightly threaded scenarios wherein the scheduler is much more involved in directing traffic interactions whereas in a full core load it just says "everything here".
The 1st iGPU with AV1 encoding.
uhh, did you forget Rx 780M, Rx 760M and Rx 740M all have AV1 encoding?
Interesting to see where the laptop industry is moving💪👍. Being a new architecture, like Ryzen and Alder Lake, Meteor ☄Lake is going to need some time and maturity of drivers, windows scheduling etc 🤔and give it a solid 12-month and we’ll see the true nature of how Meteor ☄Lake and how well or bad it truely is🤯.
I think tbh, like Ryzens debut, we’ll see a lot of teething issues, inconsistencies (as shown), performance issues, battery life concerns etc. But it seems Intel is pulling AMD and trying fro the fine wine 🍷approach 😅😂🤣
How will we differentiate between generations now that the prefixes don't match the generation number anymore?
Is it Intel 7nm or Intel 7?🤔
Now if Intel can just make laptops that aren't desktop replacements with good battery life...
*laughs in spinning up fans launching a browser*
Sorry did you test the battery yourself when you said 21 hours battery life? Thanks
So they added a different set of e-cores to make the new chips more efficient? 😂
What the duck!?
What’s the point of the regular e-cores?
I have a i7-1260p, is it worth an upgrade for the battery and iGPU?
Competition is so damn great.
Hello, where can i buy these laptops? I couldnt find any on internet (srry 4 the bad english, im spanish)
proud of you intel , an igpu basic in everything chipset that allows you 60fps EVEN in modern GAMES. i remember registry mods tricks file swaps and a volt trick to get the INTEL hi definition graphics to even run at "20" fps until i invented an upscaling mode of pure pixel until you correct and sharpen at rate and BOOM NITRO made intel ARC GRAPHICS...
Pre BIOS update?
This is only renamed raptor lake with 22 threads and new igpu while single core of meteor lake are actually around same as of 13700h or something lower
What is the RAM speed on your test system
Thanks to apple for raising the bar❤
Hello,
Need a suggestion from your end if you can help out my purchase decision
1. Zenbook 14X (i7-13700H) for $700
2. G14 (7735HS) for $900
3. Slim Pro 7 X (6800HS-CE) for $800
If not any of these which one would you suggest to be the best buy under $900.
Much love, thanks
more like...mediocre lake! zing! Roasted!
AMD should also up it's game a bit and we see how apple and intel run for everything.
My short question is that this is faster than M3 Pro?
I recently bought a Galaxy Book 3 for studies & now this comes out 😅 dang it!
damnn, i guess you should be aware that usually there is new gen of cpu every year
It's still a good buy, but I fully understand the feeling. I got a Dell Latitude 7420 a few months before the Intel 12th gen P series was released. 😢😢
When the Dell Latitude 7450 gets released with 14th gen U series gets released, I'm upgrading.
Yeah the sale was tempting 550$ for the i5 book3 model
@@killerindustries49 you still got a deal. As much as I wanted a more efficient laptop, the price with the new ones are probably twice as that
Intel just caught up to AMDs refresh...
litrally
A year late. I'll wait for AMD zen5 rdna3.5
Good luck. You'll be waiting a while in the thin and light market.
lol, even the AMD paper launch for that is a long way away and then real supply doesn't even show up in the market until another 1-2 quarters and even that is in far fewer design wins and lower volume.
@@rgbplague7834Also, what they should be looking forward to is Strix Point/Halo. Hawk Point is just a Phoenix refresh.
The reason why Intel and AMD have so many unnecessary skews is to limit the commoditization effect for manufacturers and resellers. The confusion allows everyone to make more money. Apple on the other hand has very few skews because they do everything thus streamline to save on costs. The con is Apple prices are outrageous especially on iPhone where tiny bumps in storage that cost Apple only a few dollars is sold for hundreds of dollars of additional markup.
So my 13900h modern 15 32gb isn't obsolete after a month?
Love to see a comparison with apples M3
I think you're overselling it a bit. Cinebench and Geekbench show IPC regression. The fact that the current AMD chips which are about to be succeeded by Hawk Point, are still very competitive with Meteor Lake, can't be understated.
The fact you are classifying Hawk Point as a successor proves that you're drinking the wrong Kool Aid
Nailed what? Themselves to a tree? Their hand in the car door? Get real, man. This is a load.
Is intel arc Graphic worth buying?
I feel like this is Intel finally catching up with AMD. And since AMD Next Gen is around the corner. I wonder how good will it be. Good thing intel is finally awake for Ultra Laptops
Ultrabook laptops won't have ARC GPUs sadly. So for any reasonable GPU perf on Ultrabook you still need AMD SoC.
Around the corner, meaning summer next year? 😂
@@terrycrews1584didn’t they say it would ship Q1 next year or has there been a new update?
@@Michealxlr If you are talking about 8000 series, yes, but they only get an AI chip. Otherwise theyre just the same 7000 series chips.
@@terrycrews1584 Thats a mid refresh release. I think there will be separate release next year i think
its a joke. we dont just use google chrome on laptops bro. this is total joke from intel. Qualcolm will teach them a lesson soon. just wait for it
No, Qualcomm won't. They tried again and again and failed miserably.
thanks for the info
I feel like they could have atleast put a RTX 4050 mobile gpu in here because of its price point.
i thought the same, that price is so far high for that laptop have inside.
@@robinrufino8244 yup, hell even a lower wattage 4060 would do or just a 4060 in general
Finally intel got up from couch and started working.
is the wifi integrated in the IO die?
Higher power efficiency by having minimum P cores, ONLY 2.
Higher core count by using E cores, 8.
Very creative : )
Old names were better
How old? Because Core i7-1165G7 was terrible.
Why there is no comparison with Apple m3 or m3 pro macbooks?
There were many firmware bios updates from asus, will you re revew this laptop?
What about performance working on battery.