Etrian Odyssey Origins: Not the Remakes we Want, but the Ones we Need
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ค. 2023
- One of my favorite series is getting revived. But the way they're reviving it is probably not what anyone was hoping for. In spite of that, I'm glad they're doing this.
Music:
"Truth of the Legend" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
"Ancient Mystery Waltz (Presto)" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
"Mountain Emperor" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
"Furious Freak" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b... - เกม
It's so refreshing to finally hear someone talk about how different the originals are from the Untold remakes and to express a preference for the former. And you did a wonderful job of articulating how each set feels. I love the cold, unfriendly challenge of the original games, especially early on when every run seems like a careful balance between the realities of attrition as your resources dwindle and the economic need to stretch a little bit further in order to fund the next attempt-and maybe, if you're lucky, a couple of small equipment upgrades as an investment towards better fortunes ahead.
I've seen so many complaints about how the Untold content isn't "included" in these remasters, as if you could "include" a totally different game. Too many forum users and reviewers alike just don't get it. I was overjoyed when this trilogy was announced, not just because Etrian was seeing a revival but also because these specific games were being preserved rather than erased by their Untold counterparts. And you're right; it might not have been the best decision from a business standpoint. All the more reason to consider ourselves lucky.
I'm really glad you enjoyed it. I agree that it's a bit odd that people seem to think it would be easy to "include" the Untold content. Maybe they've only played the Untold games and assumed the "classic" mode was exactly how it used to be?
I love the Untold games a lot, but at anything below a surface level they are completely different games. This is not a bad thing by any means - because of it there's more Etrian Odyssey to enjoy. But it is a shame to see people assume that the untold games are substitutes for the originals. It's why I made this video, and I'm glad to see someone else who really gets it.
As someone from Europe who discovered this license about 4 months ago, i'm happy to have remakes because even if i know english fluently it's always nice to be able to play in my language.
It was only possible for eo1, eo 2 and 3 never came out in Europe and eo4 came out but untranslated
That is really unfortunate, yeah. I'm glad you'll get to finally play these games in your native language.
I prefer the originals than the 3ds remakes. If you play this saga for the first time, the story of the original is much better for the surprise when you understand what's really the labyrinth and the lore of the world. The difficulty of the game, and the effort you put reaching that point makes everything more mindblowing. The second game happens something similar but in a lesser manner. After that, the main lore of the saga is established and it doesn't matter anymore. If you play them in a different order, you have spoiled yourself already...
The remakes of the 3ds destroy these surprises throwing at your face from the beginning characters that makes you realize these things...
New player here! I had been disinterested in the Etrian Odyssey series for several years, but for whatever reason I got a random urge to try one of them out about two months ago. I have no clue why, since I had pretty much only heard bad things about the first game, I wasn't a fan of the chibi look and I didn't like what I had seen earlier from some gameplay of Persona Q a few years ago. The first three games went on a sale on steam, so I bought them, booted up the first game and got hooked pretty much instantly! I loved how it brutal it was and how it forced me to really consider resource management, and the sense of constant progression is just incredible. I can't believe more games with only one big dungeon don't focus on quality over quantity. Having fewer but more unique floors really makes it so much more memorable. You could say a number from 1-30 and I would be able to remember what floor that was, what made it special and what I think about it.
EO1 is now one of the very few games on steam I have gotten every achievement for, and I just got started with EO2 about a week ago. So far I'm absolutely loving it, it feels even more brutal and it honestly kind of reminds me of a survival horror game when it comes to resource management because of the massively increased TP costs. The games aren't really "fair" per se, but that's what makes them so great to me. The sense of absolute dread when you stop paying attention for a moment and accidentally bump into an FOE when your back is against a wall is something I just haven't experienced from an RPG before.
I really hope you enjoy EO2 - it has a special place in my heart, since it introduced me to the series back when I was 12. I really do agree that the resource management is what makes the classic Etrian games special. It's something a lot of RPGs have since streamlined to the point of irrelevance. But in Etrian Odyssey it's crucial. Each trip into the Labyrinth you try to get a little further, and get a little stronger for the next run.
Later games downplayed this, and while they're great in their own regard (the combat is legitimately some of the best turn-based combat ever made), I do miss that tension of struggling to get just a little further.
Glad to see a new fan, though, and especially a new fan getting into the classic titles.
as someone who got into the series with th Untolds, I managed to get the games of 4 and onward, but by the time I started getting the older games of well, 4, 1/2/3 where already jacked in price going well into 150-200 CAD range... which is just no...
so honestly, this was the best way for me to be able to play these old games
I'm glad this collection will enable you to try these titles. I hope you enjoy them, even if they're different from the later titles you're used to.
I got the game when it just came out in (2006? 2007?)
I was obsessed with DnD and dungeon crawling/character creation in those days. I believe I was maybe 12 or 13
Its a fantastic piece of nostalgia and would only recommend it to people who actually lived its early days
Everything I loved about the game has a make-over, and I haven't played newer entries to have anything to compare it to
so I love it, playing it on Expert mode as my first go.
Very brutal and extremely rewarding experience thus far, I'm on floor 8
NGL, I'm completely new to the Etrian Odyssey series. Aside from a demo of Etrian Odyssey 5 a long-long time ago, this collection is my first exposure to the series.
Admittedly what got me interested was more of a weird mood I had where I wanted to play a turn based RPG that had a really cute artstyle but was also brutally difficult in a Shin Megami Tensei/ Dark Souls kind of way.
Well Etrian Odyssey is exactly the right game for that mood. Even by the same company as SMT, so that probably helps. And I'm glad to see new people getting into the series with this collection. The three games in this collection are the hardest to get into, so if they do a collection(s) of the 3DS games, you'll probably take to them with ease. Don't worry, they'll still be plenty tough, though.
I got the whole bundle physical via playasia. More bang for buck there, and while it's steep, the games are definitely fun (3 didn't get the untold treatment so this is the best way to replay it). Plus i love collecting physical media for the switch as it's the last system where it actually matters, unlike PS4/5 or Xbox One S/X where the discs just download and take up storage space.
The price issue with these games is kinda interesting - worth noting that Atlus loves to do a lot of sales of their Switch titles and I just got all these games with DLC portraits (kinda waste of money for ppl that are not fans of Persona/SMT, eh?) for less than 50$ which is very reasonable price. So if one has patience and good eye they may catch these titles for way cheaper.
If one is fan of more gritty, down to earth dungeon crawling but with more cutesy anime style this is a great release.
If Atlus really was looking to preserve the original games completely, they would have released a physical version of the collection in the West too. I don't think $70 for it would have been out of the question either with the rise in game prices coming.
Instead it just seems that they ported the old games and pushed the remakes aside. I do hope that Untold 1 and 2 can come to Switch, even with 2d monster portraits. I'm gonna miss some of the little touches they did there, like having new music option and npc voices in the shops.
The voices and transition to 3d models were already in Etrian Odyssey 4: Beyond the Myth if i remember correctly.
The first game is an all-time classic. Right up there with dungeon master. . I'm impressed with the monster and character art. They really pop with the higher resolution. I'm glad Atlus have released this collection. Whether it sells, given the price point and the current economic climate, is another matter. The port use the unity engine, so the work is already done if they want to release the 3DS titles in the future.
The art looks incredible. Back when the trailer dropped that was the first thing that caught my eye. I always thought the 2D monster portraits of the DS games looked better than the 3DS era's models. So it is amazing to finally be able to appreciate it in a higher resolution. (Of course, on the DS's screen I never minded the resolution.)
But if they can easily use this as a base to remake the 3DS titles, that would make me very happy... And very broke because I would buy them all.
As someone who learned to love Etrian Odyssey through the Untold games and now replaying the HD original, i actually see the value of both games. I would recommend the Untold games as an entry point and the classic series as a follow-up.
The Untold games give you a likeable cast of main characters to get familiar with and flesh out EOs character writing and humour while the classic games/classic mode gives you more freedom and customization. A good example of this would be the "survive on floor B8F for five days straight" sidequest. In the original it is a mindless boring slog that exhausts your patience, while in the Untold games you spend every night with another party member talking before guard shift and learning a bit about them.
I kinda didn't get why people complained about the lack of untold, considering it is called origins collections which implies the original, plus it says HD Remaster right in the title too so it's a remaster of the old game albeit with 3d dungeons etc. And I remembered people before this came out for years talked about how the untold were all different from the original but when HD Remaster comes out a bunch of reviews talk about why they couldn't add untold stuff into the hd remasters, also why is everyone calling it a remake i'm curious
I think it's just because I started out with 2 and 3 and played everything and finished everything minus nexus and 1, recently beating 4 just a couple of days before the Remasters released, that and the ds titles right now here cost 100-200 dollars so I had no issue, because the games never came out to singapore at the start, they are all imports for all old games and that's why here they costed that high to begin with, compared to that the HD Remasters honestly looked cheap in my opinion but that one is an exception because of singapore prices and atlus games always being a "Premium" price XD
I always thought it was weird that people assumed these would be Untold style remakes too. I think that's largely people projecting what they wanted from the collection.
As for why I call it a remake, it's mostly me assuming the game did have to be rebuilt from the ground up (especially with the change in platforms) and thus, on a technical level, it was remade. But in terms of content it does seem like "remaster" is more accurate. It's one of those cases where the terms get a bit blurry.
@@MikhailKutzow That is true, I kinda feel like it is a half remaster half remake kinda, but for the most part I just follow with whatevers written because my brain kinda gets fried easily haha
I was interested in this since I picked up and enjoyed what I have played Five. So far enjoying 1.
Really glad to hear you are enjoying the older games. I was worried they might not do as well with newer fans.
I was really hoping the Switch remakes would get a physical copy. My EO collection is still missing some of the 3DS games and they are getting harder to find. You are right about the DS games being very survival oriented, its not always enjoyable but very memorable. Reaching the last stratum in the original EO feels like a great achievement.
there's a jp one u could import
I started the series with the 3rd game a few years after its release and never really jelled with the 3ds games that came after it, while difficult I really bonded with the bleackness that the 3rd game carried with its tone and the uncertainty that came with encountering FOE's (que the theme song), not knowing how strong they were the TP reserves that I had whether i felt like risking my map data/healing items to do battle with a powerfull enemy without knowing if I could even scrap with it was, unique to me concidering how hand holdy alot of RPG's of the time were getting and the few times I actually died and had to reload at town were comforting in a way I feel words fail to express
Never played a game in the series, but I'm hooked on darkest dungeon right now and this feels like an interesting game to follow up with.
That is not as bad of a comparison actually.
Soooo as someone that owns literally like
Every etrian Odyssey game I can
Which includes 1 to 4 physical and the rest digital on my 3ds
WOOT WOOT
MORE ETRIAN ODYSSEY
I haven’t ever heard of these games until yesterday but I like the art style so much I looked the games up, the only thing keeping me from buying the collection is the price
I'm glad they made the decision to rerelease the games, especially EO3 is a masterful game and one of the best RPG from the last decade in my opinion. The pricetag is a huge downer unfortunately and many people won't get the games just because of it. But as it seems, the collection was a financial success, especially in Japan, so maybe there is some hope for the abandoned successor project Atlus teased many years ago.
The price wasnt a problem, i was happy to get the 3 for the price of 2. And the price is cheaper than the new games that comin out now.
Wish it got a western physical release
Excellent video. I generally agree with your take on this; the original EO games, even in their heyday, were mechanically clunky, bit they were enough to capture imagination differently than later-gen games did.
Yeah. Honestly I'm not sure I'd have noticed if I hadn't played EO3 between 5 and Nexus. It's a much rougher experience, but you can still see the sparks of brilliance in there. And they remain undeniably unique.
I guess it's only natural for trolls to agree with each other.
Tbh, my only complain with the remakes is the speed of the interfaces and the new soundtrack, it feels less deep, like a megadrive/snes theme
Its less limited on sounds, but its more limited on channels, so the songs lack notes are in the original, and this affects some great songs hard
Got any tips for someone starting out in 2? I started with 4 and then played EOU, so I'm noticing there's no skills to recover health while you walk, nor is there the stair-warp. Fine by me without them, but I'm looking for other ways to weather the early-game storm.
Medics still provide a passive heal in the form of Patch Up, restoring HP after each battle, but I think that's deeper into their skill trees. As for other classes, Hexers and Ronins are quite good in EO2. Debuffs and ailments are great in this series, and Hexer brings both in full force. Ronin, meanwhile, is a physical damage monster - their overhead stance especially gives a 2-hit (later 3 hit) attack that is absolutely vicious.
Oh, and a second party of all survivalists can be useful for gathering and making money. You don't need to level them much.
@@MikhailKutzow Yo! Thanks for the advice. I hadn't thought of the second part at all, having a second party to gather and make money.
I was aware of Patch Up, but though I could test it, do you know if it heals the whole party a little bit after battle, or just the medic? I've been debating using any skill points in there. I settled on using a War Magus at the least for an ability to heal a small amount after every turn. Dealt better damage than the Troubadour I had in front anyways. Glad to know Ronins are good - I decided to use one instead of a Landsknecht. I like the team I have a lot right now, but just how important are ailments? Right now my party mostly has some options to bind.
@@TheTH-camGame Patch up will heal the entire party, which is essential for grinding out levels when you want to preserve as much tp as you can without spamming Cure repeatedly. My personal recommendation is to either plan with getting it to 5 at the least. you won't see any benefit until it's level 5 where it will heal around 10% hp per battle. And when you have to walk to each boss from the start without warps and often few skips, this is incredibly necessary.
In my original run of EO2 I did not use Hexers or War Magus as high school me only thought in terms of monkey brain: I hit hard, things go boom. So i can't really speak too much on this front but there's a few bosses in the game that completely lose the ability to do much of anything with the right ailment applied to them.
That said the most important ailment in EO and EO2 is Sleep, because the bonus damage that is applied from Sleep actually applies for all hits of an attack. A beast using rampage on a sleeping boss is basically a recipe for oneshotting a large chunk of them.
Some other class notes:
Medics were busted in the base EO cause of immunize and while the lost that in 2, they got somewhat more busted in getting Freedom and Purify, which are godsends in later stratums, without giving too much away.
Beast is kinda EO2's janky class. Set up right, Beast is either an unkillable tank that never dies and survives basically everything, or a boss killing monster that 1 shots everything harder than ronin. But you actually will see it low hp or die a lot if you use loyalty because of it using it's allies def stats, not its own. As such, HP up is pretty much mandatory on it.
40$ is a high ask for sure. I feel 30 would have made more sense.
The biggest problem i have with the remakes is the price honestly. I played the originals and got them on steam as well but i can't help but feel that 80 was just too much in general. And I dont say this because i think the games aren't worth it. it's more that anyone who bought physical copies of the game knows that Atlus always gave you more in their physical copy than just the game: You got a CD of outtakes/unused tracks, maybe some merch pins, extra artwork. And the remakes is just the games. It would've been nice if the steam version included a dlc pack of the artwork or unused tracks but they don't. I dont know how they would've done this on the switch but it's a sad thing for me to accept.
Got the bundle for E80 and thought it was reasonable...
I LOVE eo so much and bought them immediately but I was very confused that the remakes didn't have some of the qol that untold and Nexus had like voice work and warping, I feel like a major reason why I didn't do it is because they don't want the 3rd game to feel unpolished in that sense but I think for $80 price tag they could have hired somebody to do a little bit of voice work and poke warping in the game and some other quality-of-life features because the Gainesville very dated I was also surprised that they didn't just put in the f o e models for 1 and 2
I just got 3 on steam deck it's fun , I'm happy to see this game series come back my only gripe is the ost it would be better as a orchestra like on the 3ds .
Not like I hate the ds sound Font but the music for entrian odyssey games on 3ds are nothing to skip out on some of the best music on the 3ds
Honestly, I really love the classic FM Synth style for the original soundtrack. But that said, they could easily just have it as a menu option as it was in the Untold games, which is something I would fully support.
Especially getting an orchistral version of EO3's second battle theme. Because it never showed up in Nexus it's one of the only themes not to get a version in the 3DS style, and I desperately want to hear it. It's one of my favorite battle themes in the series.
First, this release on steam doesn't use the compressed DS version of the soundtrack. It uses the higher quality original FM synth tracks based on the PC-88.
Second, since you have the Steam version, there are mods available to you. Gamebanana has EO mods, including the orchestrated version of the OST from Untold.
These *are not remakes* as you keep saying, these are *HD Remasters* which is a completely different thing.
Indeed. The "Untold" games were remakes
I’m surprised more people aren’t saying this.
It’s not nitpicking, it’s true.
Who's we?
Me
these are remasters, not remakes.
the untolds are remakes. they overhauled classes, added new mechanics, changed the dungeon design, and basically changed everything about the game in a gameplay standpoint. i think it sucks that they could've done more to make the ds games better while preserving the feel of those games. i wish we had "classic" and "modern" modes so people can play the classics with their horrendous balance and boring random encounter design while others can play a more designed game
I'd hardly call the untold games remakes. More like reimaginings, as they're essentially new games loosely utilizing the settings of the first two games. Even in classic mode, the classes have been reworked, the floors have new/different layouts, etc. They're just not the same games.
The first 2 games are genuinely terrible and unbalanced. The third one is pretty good. While I like this series I don't see this release attracting new fans.