do we really want to be free?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2022
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we live in a society: the video
love your content !
Lmao
some say that Sisyphus audition to play as the Joker
Hey, I've been following your channel for a bit over a year now. You're content is great and I very much appreciate this video. I like how you come with an academic approach that doesn't feel like you're specifically trying to sell me your views. It's a breath of fresh air
A: we will never be free it is not natural rule of law, rule of capital, and rule of nature, rule of consciousness. Freedom is a perception of one's self and the restrictions we can observe. How can we ever be free with the chains of space and time and the shackles of a morale compass... you are free to starve but you are also free to eat.
"I'm free and that is why I am lost" - Kafka
"username checks out" some would say
This video made me think that we really do live in a dystopia and it's more subtley existentially horrifying than anything in fiction.
I'd love to hear more about this connection between friendship and freedom, both linguistically and philosophically
Sisyphus authoritarian arc?? 😍😍
lmfao
@Milan Velky what
so slay.
JrEg moment
jreg and political compass memes have been a disaster for the human race
I want to be free to bind myself; to attach my own chain and design my own limitations.
Hey Sisyphus, would you consider putting the sources in the video description? Sometimes you mention a philosopher who I want to look up more on and I end up having to try and catch the name when you say it and I hope I spell it right in Google lol. Would be really helpful :)
I was *just* about to write the same comment.
mingus
Yes please put references.
Creativity is often born of constraint within a medium. But if that constraint is applied generally, it becomes restrictive. I do agree that most people don’t want freedom. It is too horrifying a thing to be able to do anything we want. Best to have to stick to the daily grind
Really want we want isn't the freedom to not do, but the freedom to do what we want
@@janfungusamon4926 We want a painless life, not a free one.
@@BigDrawManTheGoloid precisely
@@BigDrawManTheGoloid isn't that a freedom? The freedom to choose not to experience something?
More like most people are too incompetent to actually earn it
It’s almost as though for most there is an innate reliance on interaction and being deemed as a good person so for that, we are willing to sacrifice our freedom to appear satisfactory in the eyes of the world
I did this for almost 25 years, then I woke up
@@destindarksoul you were comatose?
We are social animals. Our brain was wired to be worthy of others approval.
@@elierreyes9287 no.. I was echoing the idea in the original comment and sharing my own experience dealing with these feelings.
@@elierreyes9287 i find this part of our nature a struggle worth overcoming rather than one worth submitting to.
Freedom is impossible. We exist within our bodies which have needs such as food, water, shelter. We work to keep ourselves fed and secure, to keep going until we can't anymore. To be free would be to reject life itself and seek enlightenment beyond human limitations
Thus spake Cummy Tummy
Reality itself is the one entity that is truly free. Those who live within, aren't and can never be. But that still doesn't mean that we should give up entirely on our quest for more freedom-that act is still significant in itself.
What an absolute pile of pseudo-intellectual gobbledygook.
That really depends on what you think freedom entails/means. An abstract concept like freedom is difficult to define objectively imo.
To be free would be to embrace being human and become a poet.
Personally, I'm so used to a rigid schedule and structure to my interactions with the world that sometimes freedom is jarring; it upsets me a bit that it feels like that. Not to say there's no joy in a more rigid life, it definitely lifts a burden when you know what you have to do.
Habits when used responsibly in a sense can be liberating, especially if it’s trivial things. When you make things like paying bills, brushing your teeth, etc a habit, you are moving it from conscious to unconscious thought. This frees up your more active conscious mind to consider things that are important to you and not easy to automate like creative thinking and art. There is of course a balance as habits can also be restrictive if it ends up being all you do every day. But that isn’t so much a problem with having habits at all but rather having too many habits that you don’t have time for anything not habitual
You'd probably love the discipline of a Russian Gulag, or a Chinese work-prison.
"Freedom signifies a relationship." Thank you for this commentary on freedom.
Here are excerpts from the writings of Marshall Vian Summers on the topic of freedom.
"Let me learn to be free so that I may join. Your independence from the past--past judgments, past wounds and past difficulties--gives you independence in the present. This is not to solidify your separation...but instead to enable you to join meaningfully in relationship. Let this be a tacit understanding. You can do nothing in the world without relationship. You can accomplish nothing; you can advance in no direction; you can realize no truth; you can contribute nothing of value without relationship. So as your independence from the past grows, thus does your promise for inclusion in the present and the future grow as well. For freedom is meant to empower you to join." (MVS, Steps to Knowledge)
Thank you, Janice.
Thanks
If I may ask what does he mean exactly with relationships I can't get a hold of it
"Relationship is not two bodies together. It is not two minds sharing the same ideas. It is spirits touching through minds and bodies. For what can be more valuable and more essential than when two people truly touch each other and give to each other even in the simplest of circumstances, in the simplest of gestures? This is the high point of human achievement." (Relationships & Higher Purpose, Marshall Vian Summers)
@@janicestevenson6496 thanks a lot (≡^∇^≡)
This is by far one of your best works yet!! You fit so much into 12 minutes.
I would rather have the choice to not be free than be forced to not be.
This video hurt because oppressed can be oppressivor without changing the system that we have. The neoliberal economic system is designed for competition against each other. Sadly, we need an human empathy to make a system for everyone.
can you be more specific? you say all these things but your not really specficing on it and it seems like your intentionally being vague
I find the ideas in this video strangely hopeful, despite the bleak description of the human subject under neoliberalism. These ideas describe a specific historical situation - our own - and do not try to describe any sort of human essence. They pose the question - this is what neoliberalism has done to you, what are you going to do about it? The fact that this question can be asked is the opening hope needs. We live in history and the future remains unknown. Neoliberalism will not last forever, no matter what its devotees think. Can we choose something better? To answer in the negative ignores the very structure of this description of what binds us. There are no guarantees. But there is possibility.
I love this interpretation
I've been ready to break this shit since I had to see people go hungry at my job. If I could I would let them take everything but, I bet they would look as shocked as if no one was there to check them out.
Great video on an interesting topic!
I think the false consciousness created by neo-liberalism that we are the masters of out own destiny is an incredibly fascinating area. Definitely the book you have described seems to link to the idea that we ironically detach ourselves from our participation in capitalist society; it’s not even that we’re 100% brainwashed into believing capitalism is good, we are fatalistic about ourselves and our chance to overthrow capitalism as our own “personal project”. Because of this we continue to work within the system.
It’s obviously a silly argument when right-wingers say things like “oh you hate capitalism but own an iPhone, hypocrite!”. However, there is a serious apathy towards attempting to change capitalism from those who are against it because they are necessarily constrained to participate within it just to subsist.
I’d be curious to see how Byung Chul Han reacts to Zizek’s claim that buddhism is a vehicle for capitalism now, as the detachment from the self allows the individual to participate in capitalism without scruples.
you cant just overthrow capitalism, it should be changed but you can't just get rid of it at least go for a more socialism leaning capitalist system
@@handsomeboi3767 I disagree! I think it must be overthrown, personally, as reformism isn’t working.
Highly recommend having a look at “social reform or revolution?” By Luxemburg and “what is to be done?” By Lenin if you want an idea of why reformism away from capitalism isn’t preferred.
There is no such thing as capitalism. You will always be subordibated by someone else. I think your obsession with the false notion of controlling one's destiny is very interesting in a childlike way though. Also, Zizek is basically just a liberal and admits as much. Then again, all "marxists" are just crypto liberals obsessed with "human liberation"
I completely see this system as fine. In fact, i dislike the current system because it doesn’t go far enough. Being the master and the slave empowers you to make your own decisions. Individual freedom is good because… well… using force is wrong.
this is a SUPER interesting topic. thanks for covering it in such detail! The idea that every individual is their own slave/owner and how that plays into progressing capitalism is really crazy to think about! I also really love how simple yet sensible the analogy of our phones and social media being a new form of worship.
quality video as always, thanks for helping me start my day off right :)
Hell yeah, I’m down to own myself
"real freedom scares you / 'cause it means responsibility" -dead kennedys
As Han would say, build your empire girlboss
Eren Yeager wants to know your location.
Thank you. Finally someone else also dares to question the concept of freedom.
I've been following this political/philosophical Instagram account for a while that has, on more than one occasion, pointed out that in regards to work, spare time, and ties to local communities, the peasants of the ~10-15th Centuries had it a lot better than us living under feudalism than we do today in democracies. Farming itself did not take a 10+ person family 40 hours of working each week, communities were tighter, the Catholic Church had many feast days and combined with the kings kept society relatively well structured and peaceful (about as much as we can hope for today with high rates of crime and mass shootings, etc.), other than wars of course. This of course is a picturesque view of the medieval era and we are obviously much better off in terms of sanitation, medicine, and technology. That being said, it is interesting to consider that humans were had more of the "meaningful" freedoms and benefits of a closer-knit society under emperors and kings for thousands of years than modern humans living in small apartments and working 40 hours a week to break even each month.
Not to mention the average life expectancy of around 35 years. Or the rampant disease and filth that even the very rich lived with. Like your teeth? Back then you might actually get to enjoy having them, until you were about ten. No dentistry. No doctors, either. Or, how about the fact that 90% of the population was uneducated and had no skills to speak of other than farming, which was all done by hand? Does that sound groovy to you?
Landowners could kill peasants for almost no reason. The church stole the people's money by selling them dispensations for their sins, which only the church could offer. 4 out of 5 babies never reached the age of three.
Jolly old times, indeed. But then, if you ever read more than a few lines of text at a sitting, you'd likely know all of this.
You. Are. An. Idiot.
But that's okay, slick. Your generation is, almost to a certainty, already doomed. I'd much rather see you pay the price of losing your freedom, seeing as how inclined you are to offer it up so willingly, than any who come after you.
That way at least three or four generations that follow you will not have to suffer the way you and your ilk likely will.
FFS!
Lets not forget the King's First trip. First Class into your wife
Good point. Combine modern tech with a return to this way and you might just create the near-perfect world…
really needed this today, will definitely come back to it when I feel like my art is becoming too dependent on "like comment and subscribe"
This channel is amazing, everything as small as the neat basslines inserted into the Housecat's music to the super meta conclusions of a video.
Hope all is going well in your last year of schooling, dude. This video was one of your most insightful pieces to date.
Really glad I stumbled upon this channel. Most of your videos make me think a lot, and I feel that's a positive change on my side. Gotta say, that analogy of mobile devices as 'mobile confessionals' really hit home. There are multiple times where I read about certain things and then to show solidarity with them, I pressed like. It's like saying 'I am supporting such and such, therefore anyone who sees this act in their front page should recognize me as a good person'. Really interesting train of thoughts.
I still pressed like on your videos, though.
The short answer is "no". This immediately brings to mind "Why?" To which the short answer is "Complexity." Therefore, in the absence of being pressured to take on responsibility in order to retain freedoms that we enjoy we generally avoid it. This brings about the age old consequences of allowing such power to rest within the hands of a ruling class. When they take things too far people react with revolution which is always either squashed or becomes worse than the system that it usurped. On a long enough timeline people are going to have to learn that anarchy is the only solution but we need to be mature enough to not all kill each other when we get there. That's unfortunately impossible, it is kill or be killed out there, survival of the fittest and we didn't make the rules. We are basically nature's test subjects and she likes to watch us fight because it's how she improves herself.
This even connects to the process of fascist revolution, as well. Fascism only comes about in a society where rights are assumed to always exist, and where we don’t have to fight for them. And thus fascism grows without ever being addressed, using fear of an arbitrary subject for which people to explain their debt to and throw away responsibility.
Love it when philosophy ties into other topics
I find myself agreeing with you, except when it comes to anarchy. It can't be the solution if it's unsustainable. I imagine it'll lead to a dynamic where it's those of us who aren't violence versus those of us who are more violent... eventually leading to a kind of the system we have now. I think an ideal system would be one that (actually, genuinely) serves the best interest of the majority not the few. But again, there are always assholes out there so it's probably impossible
Oh boy
I say fuck that. True anarchy or whatever utopia you subscribe to is probably impossible, but we should be getting as close as possible or just abandoning the societal experiment.
@@en7070 I think the point of anarchy is to discuarage assholery as much as possible, which honestly is the best goal to have. It's unsustainable because of moral qualms like "is it an asshole move to kill an asshole?" That make it so that any "true" anarchist society can't actually do any asshole fighting. It's why I'll never call myself an anarchist, but still follow all the tenets. We just need something slightly worse than anarchy so it can prop itself up permanently but still be a moral system.
"Be your own boss, work for DoorDash"
the structure of this video was really useful and clear, thanks ! i have a hard time with concentration but this was really to the point :)
One time I had a dream that I woke up and realized everyone was being drugged to basically be ignorant to “what’s happening”
I stopped taking my pill , and anxiously tried to convince my family to stop taking theirs. Then I started running. I ran and ran, and I got over a barb wire gate. When I jumped the gate, I looked around and saw emptiness, fire, a dessert of nothing. I turned around to see security guards calmly welcoming me , to take me back home.
It’s like they allowed me to see that there was no life beyond the one I was forced into. I can’t escape.
I wondered what it meant for about a year. One day I realized that it means… despite whatever’s going on in the world, or the universe, I just have to go with it. To use what I have and make a life of it. Enjoy it, even if I have to take the pill of ignorance, and give up freedom. Because freedom is nothing beyond what we already know. A void.
Ignorance is truly bliss.
holy shit
new favorite TH-camr! it brings me joy to watch worthy content creators grow
No. I want a direction. I want someone to point and for me to feel like I’m expending my energy towards something with real meaning
You're not capable of discerning that for yourself? You need someone to spoon-feed you what they think you should do?
Then go to an ikea and follow the arrows
You are human
You are completely right
You're ready to surrender your own purpose for someone elses? Merely to reassert what others do, following obediently along with the customs and presuppositions of your culture? This is fine, it seems to be what popular religion has been directed towards, where mythology is merely sociological and pedagogical rather than mystical. However there seem to be an urge within many to break free from routine of monotonous and stagnate living, from the deplorable and soulless cycle of alarm clock - shoving down breakfast - sitting in traffic - coffee in order to stay awake during labour hours - to getting home and sitting infront of the couch watching endless of entertainment of noise.
To follow ones own bliss, in the words of Campbell, rather than the socially conditioned, preordained way, to enter the forest from our own individually chosen path, instead of the secure and well-trodden highway.
Personally I'm fine with being free even though that means I have to take responsibility for my own actions because I think freedom is more valuable than being able to blame something else for my actions.
Yeah but you are not free
@@leandros_ab why?
Bruh she ain’t watch the video XD
@@izzymosley1970
Short answer:
By living in society, you forfeit some freedoms. Even many you feel you don't forfeit, the very perception of what you want is influenced by others, or even yourself, from your interactions with, or perception of expectations of, others.
Freedom is best thought of on a spectrum. One can be more or less free but never truly free nor ever fully subjugated.
@@Unsensitive yes I do agree that by choosing to live in a society you do forfeit some of your freedoms but you still have free will and therefore take responsibility for your actions and that's the kind of freedom I was referring to.
But we cannot be truly free, we are constrained to the physical laws of our worlds. Even if we get rid of any mental constrain or debt, we are still trapped inside of a decaying body. Perhaps spiritual transcendence is the closest we can get to true freedom.
That’s shallow and pedantic
@@Zikato There is this author concerned with the topic of freedom. His name is Sommerset Maugham, and many of his works are focused on the attainment or liberation of the self. A particular book that touches on the subject is “Of Human Bondage” where a Philip Carey falls in love with Mildred. Is a sort of coming of the age, but thought the mains characters journey he is exposed to the idea of freedom in art, in spirituality, and through love. Is an interesting read and perhaps you can come to your own conclusions.
Spirituality is BS
@@elierreyes9287 I don't see why people are shitting on spirituality. There's a major difference between having a spiritual code of honor and conforming to what other's demand we conform into.
@@ourdivinemouseoverlord3308 it was a family guy joke
Ima blob of particles that is aware that I’m just a blob of particles
And how do feel about that?
This video is truly sublime
This was a great piece. Thank you for this.
This is amazing. Keep speaking truth to power.
isnt it easier to just be a slave to something and live serving said thing than to live having the freedom to choose how to live, and thats how marketing is expertly utilised to make us a slave to our desires to sell their products. havent seen the vid yet this just came to mind
I really relate to the idea of "being in debt to capital".
I often feel like I've been born blessed and society has given me many things but I have not given anything back.
I am in debt with society,
... and the only way to pay this debt is by working.
(is how I often feel)
But the problem is, I am an ADHD boi, I can't have schedules and I can't do the same thing over and over,
both things are essential to creating a career.
For this reason, I'm not generally useful as a tool to generate capital.
I'm a burden to my family.
(is also how I often feel)
Should I accept my freedom, and liberate myself from the debt I have with the capital,
Or should I find a way to pay my debt?
Just ignore the debt
@@Gwestytears you're... probably right
Thank you for this video! You really put into a video some things ive been thinking about
I think we want. We have never just allowed ourself to feel it
People “want” to be free but don’t want the responsibility. They’ve been fooled into thinking they can pass off the responsibility to the government and continue to be free. That couldn’t be further from the truth.
Can you talk about what your background is/what you studied/ or what you do for work cause I'm astounded how you're so knowledgeable on all these topics.
“Freedom is best described as an opportunity for self discipline”
Some dude idk
I loved (and hated) this video. Im reading a lot of things related from different autors, but with this video it kindda all just clicked together. Thanks ;)
This video is so great! Very interesting insights
I say simply it is: choosing to do something yourself with no outside forces such as companies or individuals.
Amen to you for this creation.
I think that a lot of people want to have an illusion of freedom,but at the same time they are aware that they are responsible for bearing the weight of their own choices.If anything goes wrong,they have no one to blame but themselves and their own decisions.In my eyes,freedom is truly terrifying.It is unknown and full of potential.To not be shackled by others and your enviroment.That it why it is infinitely easier to just accept everything as it is.It is easier to criticize the misdeeds of society than to take active measures to change its structure.
I am fervently confused.
just want freedom like a shopping cart. great video man.
Ran into you on the sidewalk Friday man, nice to bump into you! amazing video :)
I definitely cant play valorant and listen to sysyphus at the same time.
BTW love this type of topic, we can even correlate to the american gods argument. We change our gods from time to time
This is wild. Really deep stuff.
So breaking it down, we have disassociated our pursuit of happiness for the pursuit of capital in believing it leads to freedom (neoliberalism). And in a way, we have identified with the projects of chasing capital over the systematic and ultimate pursuit of actual free will.
Similar to another video where our goals aren’t truly intrinsic, but extrinsic.
As human from earth, I approve of this video.
Very sus to say ur human how we know ur not cappin 🤔
I really want to hear your takes on Baudrillard after this
This was elucidated extremely well!
Liberty and freedom are like free will: a convenient way to ablate the perception of oneself as a brief vessel, doomed to die. Our agency in this world is laughably narrow and ineffectual. We're on a ride we didn't buy a ticket for, and we are firmly strapped in our seats, keep your hands and feet inside the vehicle at all times
Maybe this only worsens my outlook on things.
Peace be to whoever sees this, and may you find some reprise in this world.
Thank u its really good
No one really knows if they want freedom cause no one has ever really experienced freedom, and idt anyone ever will have true freedom.
There will always something to bind us
Marx was really painting with a broad brush when we described the entrepreneur as someone who sees all relationships as instrumental. Though that may describe some people, my perspective is that having good relationships with people is a hallmark of success.
Woaaah, social media as the new religion. That really got to me. I kinda want to go back to having an old nokia.
this is a fucking great video. I got a lot of it and thoroughly enjoyed
I'll have to spend some time thinking about this.
We know it but can't stop it. Sad indeed
from now on, i will refer to entrepreneurs as genital organs of capital
digital masterpiece
Depends on what one wants to be free of? But there are certain things we just can't be free of.
This is the kind of marxist eye opening that I seize the means of production to
Freedom from what is the question. There is no such thing as perfect freedom, in the real world gaining one type of freedom always requires sacrificing another. Being a loner frees you from the difficulties other people can cause, but takes away your freedom to form potentially good and fulfilling relationships. Quitting your job might free up your time but take away your freedom to afford things that make life more enjoyable, or to care for your loved ones. Achieving any difficult goal requires giving up much of your time and energy, but might free you from the pain of failure or regret of having never tried. Getting anything that you desire will always require voluntarily binding your existence in one way or another.
To have total freedom from everything would be to have a totally empty life (which, knowing human nature, would ironically leave you bound to boredom and depression, so perhaps total freedom truly cannot exist). So the key in my mind is not to pursue the fool's errand of total freedom, but to figure out which specific things you are happy or at least willing to be bound by and which things you desperately want to be free from, then pursue a life that fits those priorities.
One thing I want to be freed from is myself. I'm the worst enemy of myself. I hold myself back. I know full freedom in this life is impossible, but I just want to be beyond myself a little. And being that makes me happier. I don't want to die with regrets only. That's it.
Is it normal that i don't feel motivated to do anything anymore after seeing this video
very proud to have known 3 of the plants
Cool, hell yeah, I enjoyed that. Shit's messed up when you think about it fr fr
I was that edgy teen you always mention when I was younger. But I think it was an important part of who I am today, its part of the reason why nihilism and Fredrick niches theory have become a big part of what I believe and who I am.
judging by the title and your love of Camus, I clicked on this video candidly believing it would be about "The Fall"
We are all free.. to exploit each other.. equally
I find that work indeed instills the worth. It’s almost obvious any leisure we haven’t earned we can’t enjoy. See in my eyes it’s a virtue to be both owner and the laborer. to be the bearer of your own fruits. nothing compares to that, not even being a dictator.
Agreed.
Amen
We will never be truly free as long as we are alive. I think freedom comes with non-existence, until then we remain captive in our minds and bodys
What’s the chance you know the song Panopticon by Silent Planet?
Edit: if you haven’t, the lyrics ring very similarly to a segment of this video. If you listen to the song, be warned, it’s quite heavy metal.
I have been living as what I would consider somewhat free for a couple of years now and I dislike it. I have dropped out of college two years ago and have been living quite freely ever since. Being quite privileged financially means that I don't have to work or find a solution to monetary issues. This whole time spent reflecting on what I want to do and what I want to be has been productive yet discouraging.
Trying to find my place in this capitalistic system has taken a toll on my mental health. I have wondered if partaking in it was even worth it. I have wondered if my own interests even mattered in the grand scheme of things. I have wondered if I should rather choose a humanitarian job rather than one that pays well and that I like.
The freedom I have had, the never ending time thinking has taken me to many places philosophically and spiritually.
Being aware of all of these intricacies you cite in your video makes you feel powerless in front of this huge system. It resonated with me when you spoke of our self projects and blaming ourselves for the state of this world we cannot change alone.
I believe our society has influenced us to become self involved, self serving and too individualistic. We all feel alone and small in the face of the many issues our world faces.
I have often wished to have been forced by my parents into a certain career, I've wished of circumstances that would force me to do things instead of wondering what I am doing and why.
This subject is incredibly difficult and fascinating to learn about, this video was amazing. You have opened up my mind to do even more thinking than usual.
another fantastic video bro
I am free, and that is why I am lost. -F. Kafka
You talk of the only signs of class antagonism being weak exclamations of platitudes but class antagonism goes both ways, mass austerity being legislated by governments to pay for recessions for example are extremely violent and destructive class antagonism from the top onto the poorest!
From the other end just in the last few years we have seen the largest strike in human history (the Indian farmers against Modi's neoliberal reforms) and the most mass insurrectionary activity in the US in history (BLM)
Love your videos and thought it worth mentioning!
Amen.....
This channel is so fucking good
True freedom is chaos.
happy birthday to me! thanks sisyphus.
Excellent video
I wonder whether or not we would truly be any happier without that “debt” we feel compelled to repay
Just clicked "Amen" because the algorithm demands it.
"Why everyone say they want freedom but isn't free?"
I think if you enjoyed Han's idea, it would be better if you check out his book "The Burnout Society" and the accompanying documentary here in youtube.
Freedom is a fleeting feeling. It’s that sense of ultimate satisfaction from discipline, self-control, and sacrifice in the pursuit of nobility and truth. We shouldn’t rely on government or others to give us freedom. We can only achieve it through our individual actions guided by our value structures.
Politics create the illusion that leaders care about the people think.
I'm not sure "do we want to be free?" is the right question to ask. It seems to me that we are rapidly approaching a breakdown because many individuals (such as the entrepreneurs mentioned) prefer their self enslavement. I can safely say yes we ALL must be free and that the breakdown is a self perpetuating spiral caused by the people left behind to wallows in their comfortable enslavement.
So then the better question would be how do we as a society ensure everyone accepts their freedom? How do we not let individuals fall unknowingly into indentured servitude with themselves? When an individual turns around from the shadows and is blinded by sunlight, how do we support each other so that no one recoils back to the cave?
working isnt enslavement, society has always focused on exchanging services for goods
@@handsomeboi3767 Did you bother watching the video? considering the content we are already past the point of arguing this. Yes working is a form of enslavement. Watch the video for all the reasons why.
Now that we have accepted this fact, the question is asked do we want to be free or is there enough comfort in being a working slave to make enslavement worth it/is their too much fear, anxiety, effort associated with freedom to make it worth pursuing.
So my original comment states yes freedom is worth pursuing but fails when left at an individual level. And so freedom must be pursued at a societal level as well. How to do that exactly is up for debate.
@@AngelSeme how is working slavery when its required for society to exist or to exist in society?
just go over the reasons for why working is enslavement and how freedom can be achieved by a societal level, its fine to say these things but it really feels like your being vague
@@handsomeboi3767 I'm not debating this. I wanted to have a discussion about moving forward out of this neoliberal master&slave to capital situation. I want to try to talk about what's next. If we are doomed to continue this entrepreneurial cycle of self enslavement or if a stable form of freedom could finally be achieved for everyone within a society.
What would that society look like and how do we get to it? How little work is actually necessary to keep a society running if responsibility was divided equally (2 maybe 3 days a year per person)? How would we prevent others from working (literally working) against their own self interest? What structures are necessary to make this happen on a cultural level? Should social/cultural responsibilities be factored into "Work" even though that's things like be a friend to some specific person who is self-sabotaging and working when doing work would promote a systemic hierarchy that's harmful to everyone. What steps are needed for defense against the more violently inclined to prefer their own slavery than freedom?
Or you know, Doomerism. Maybe this is it. Maybe it's impossible for people to wake up. All of us slowly finish our lives. Enslaved to yourself or enslaved to capital. Never having any meaning for anyone. From my original comment you should see I'm emphatically against doomerism, although I recognize it as a position.
What I do not recognize is your position in asking "how is working slavery". I refuse to debate it for the same reasons I would refuse to debate someone claiming the earth is flat. It's your responsibility to obtain the requisite knowledge to be part of the conversation. That knowledge in particular is covered quite succinctly in the above video. So I say again Watch the video. If it's not enough for you then check it's primary source "psychopolitics" by Byung-Chul Han.
@@AngelSeme I can definatly see what your saying but we have to work to live, the only form of freedom we have is death
and what does it mean to be a "slave to capital" this capital improves peoples lives