The fact that it aligns everything is so important. The arrow, bow, line, D loop, peep sight, and release are straight. I never understood how people could shoot from the side of their cheek. Everything is off alignment. And it's really good with a compound bow because the release is flat in your hand and you can use any release you want. Awesome advice!
Shurmash, You QUESTION WHAT YOU'VE BEEN TAUGHT - NEVER LOSE THAT QUALITY !!! Glad you found something of value in these videos ! I don't get paid to make them - just a bit of Google Ad revenue - enough to buy an affordable bow to review once in a while. My Target Audience - BAREBOW ARCHERS - is SO SMALL you couldn't possibly make a LIVING from that small of a population. Nope - the only reason I do this is to MAKE PEOPLE FALL IN LOVE WITH ARCHERY BY SHOWING THEM A PRACTICAL, NO-MAGIC, SIMPLE WAY TO SHOOT BAREBOW WITH PRECISION and CONFIDENCE. Getting feedback like yours makes my week! Kind regards, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Awesome detailed description and camera angles. Thank you Mark I put this in to test next time. So far I have already managed to get few bullseye's from 20 feet (18m) which has been impossible with previous styles. It all about putting puzzle pieces in to their right places I feel. All steps needs to be on their rightful place and then you can enjoy the feeling and also actually see the arrow fly into the center of your target. The first bullseye I got I literally stopped and paused everything and start analyzing what did just happen. That was so cool. Thank you again Mark.
Greetings mmmSurvival Finland! GLAD to hear you found the video useful ! YES INDEED it IS about simply putting the "5 Steps" together - that'll be why you're always HEARING me CALL OUT "The 5 Steps" with practically EVERY SHOT ! There's absolutely ZERO "MAGIC" to The VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD. In fact it's exactly the OPPOSITE of "magic". To ME?... To ME it's more like shooting a rifle FROM THE HIP for 30 YEARS... ... and then suddenly realizing there are SIGHTS on the rifle that I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHERE THERE, until someone SHOWED me. Cheers! -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
One more question. In the video you say to go to one's full draw and then place the string under chin. What if someone has his full draw behind the ear? For example I have long arms as a tall person so how on earth I managed to place anchor point under chin from so far behind. :)
Greetings Kweli ! MUSIC TO MY EARS ! GLAD you've found VALUE in this video - even using it "half-way" ! ;-) My GOAL ISN'T to "force people to CONVERT" to my shooting method. My goal IS to ENRICH the skillsets of other archers by giving them CHOICES ;-) Cheers, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
JAMES!! MY shooting method's anchoebis simply the OLYMPIC RECURVE ARCHERY'S anchor - you can google it and see HUNDREDS of images from every angle! Once you realize you're probably trying TOO HARD to make it TOO COMPLICATED, you'll be surprised how NATURAL it feels. I was an INSTINCTIVE (stupid term) archer for most of my life until Ingot sick of getting my ass handed to me by EVERY Olympic Recurve Archer who shot at my range - even kids with 25# YOUTH BOWS. Then I shut up, sat down and WATCHED how THEY did it... and realized there was absolutely NOTHING preventing ME from shooting a "BARE" bow the same way! Looking forward to hearing from you again! -Mark Vogt / VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Very interesting sir,I’m trying that tonight! I’ve already ordered a glove. I’ve shooting with a tab and three fingers under for sometime and anchoring at the corner of my mouth. You also explained that we can shoot one finger over for farther targets,I’ve never been told that before,can’t wait to try it,many thanks!
Greetings Phillip and welcome to VOGTLAND OUTDOORS ! SO MANY PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE that Stringwalking is simply ADJUSTING the ELEVATION of the arrow FROM THE REAR, by introducing a "GAP" between the NOCKING POINT of the arrow and the DRAWING POINT of your index finger. Then as you ANCHOR that index finger always always always UNDER YOUR CHIN, if that FINGER is in a DIFFERENT POSITION relative to the ARROW, then the ELEVATION CHANGES with each GAP. SO SO SIMPLE. SO SO TERRIBLY PRECISE as well, first measuring gaps with fingers, half-fingers, quarter-fingers and eight-fingers, then making simple, tiny adjustments with +/- a "wrap" or two. The result is calculate-able, measurable precision gaps down to +/- 1m even at distances of 50m :-O But the COOLEST aspect of STRINGWALKING - and the one YOU are just now realizing? That's RIGHT - your GAPS can be POSITIVE-measured BELOW the arrow or NEGATIVE-measured ABOVE the arrow :-O ! IN FACT, you can shoot ONE finger above the arrow (about 90m on a 50# bow), TWO fingers above the arrow (100m on a 50# bow, or 90m on a 45# bow) or even THREE fingers above the arrow (110m on a 50# bow, 100m on a 45# bow or 90m on a 35# bow) - it's EFFORTLESS ! TELL me what YOUR Draw Weight is, and I'll try to provide you "2 Magic Numbers of Stringwalking" for YOU : - your "20m gap" aka your "INITIAL Gap"; and - your "10m INTERVAL Gap" Using these you can quickly (and easily) calculate ANY GAP you need to shoot from 5m to 110m ! Awaiting your reply, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS Hi Mark, thanks for the informative reply, I have problems now with arthritis and have had to keep reducing my draw weight down to 25# on my traditional recurve. In desperation I’ve been using a 40# combo (so much easier to draw) but I am finding it difficult to find arrows to suit (fish tailing) but I shall persevere,many thanks for going to the trouble of replying in such detail!
Great vid Mark, as are all your other vids on your method. Just picked up the bow again after 7 years of the bow being a wall ornament.... I want to get back to basics without all the fancy sights etc. Only one issue.. I think my nose is too big to look over!!
Thanks for sharing your shooting method. I looked at your "learn to shoot a bow in 5 minutes" and couldn't believe it. I walked into an archery store, found a bow that felt good to me and bought it before shooting it. 😂 They asked if I shoot much and my answer was,"nope". I asked if I could go a few rounds in the range. At 10 yards my grouping was awesome. All around the middle. I've never shot barebow and haven't shot a bow in about 20 yrs. The guys were stunned 😳. One question, I'm using a 35 recurve and was wondering how much does the string walking change as I increase the draw weight? Thanks again🤙
Richard, MUSIC TO MY EARS !!! LOVE STORIES LIKE THIS !!!!!!!! REGARDING the 2 "GAPS" of VOGTLAND STRING WALKING & HOW THEY CHANGE WITH DRAW WEIGHT... SHORT ANSWER: NOT MUCH ... but you WILL need to make adjustments HERE ARE SOME EXAMPLES: WHEN I shoot a 25# bow of ANY kind, I have the following 2 gaps: - my 20m "INITIAL GAP" is about 2 fingers; and - my 10m "INTERVAL GAP" is about 1 finger for each 10m change in range; WHEN I shoot a 45# bow of ANY kind, I have the following 2 gaps: - my 20m "INITIAL GAP" is about 3 fingers exactly; and - my 10m "INTERVAL GAP" is about 1/2 finger for each 10m change in range; WHEN I shoot a 55# bow of ANY kind, I have the following 2 gaps: - my 20m INITIAL GAP is about 3 1/2 fingers; and - my 10m "INTERVAL GAP" is (surprisingly) still quite close to 1/2 finger for each 10m SOMETIMES this gets adjusted just a little - to maybe 1/3 finger for each 10m YOU'LL BE SURPRISED JUST HOW !@#$%^&* ACCURATE YOU CAN BE ON ALL BOWS WITHIN 30# to 55# with just the following 2 gaps: - a 20m INITIAL GAP of 3 fingers; and - a 10m INTERVAL GAP of 1/2 finger per 10m GIVE THESE A TRY and REPORT BACK !! Cheers, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Greetings Molan and welcome to VOGTLAND OUTDOORS ! Well... NOW you HAVE seen "StringWalking" in action - and there's LOTS that most bows CAN do that many "traditional" archers FALSELY claim CAN'T be done ;-) ... Take for example anchoring "Mediterranean" style (1 finger over & 2 fingers under the arrow)... For literally DECADES now nearly ALL bows (yes even COMPOUND bows!) have been designed to be shot with ALL 3 fingers BELOW the arrow - and it can (and does) go even FARTHER than that! String Walking calculates & creates "gaps" - that distance created BETWEEN the "NOCKING POINT" of the arrow and the "DRAWING POINT" of the index finger on the drawing hand. When the index finger is anchored either along the cheek (note: while considered a "traditional" anchor, this anchoring method introduces ERROR AND loses distance!) or directly under the corner of the chin, this precisely sets the ELEVATION of the arrow, hence the DISTANCE the arrow travels as accurately as ANY sights on ANY compound bow :-O What's REALLY COOL is that this gap can actually span a MUCH GREATER RANGE than most String Walking barebow archers think is even POSSIBLE :-O AND since this Gap determines ARROW ELEVATION determines ARROW RANGE, this means most String Walking archers DON"T realize just was sort of RANGE of DISTANCES are possible with this method :-O - WANT an EXAMPLE? TAKE my 55# JUNXING F163 Recurve bow ($109 on Amazon - I'm not kidding) Using my VOGTLAND STRINGWALKING METHOD I can create gaps ranging as follows: DISTANCE STRINGWALKING GAP (measured in "fingers" BELOW nocking point) 5m 4 1/2 fingers between NOCKING POING & INDEX FINGER 10m 4 fingers 20m 3 1/2 fingers 30m 3 fingers 40m 2 1/2 fingers 50m 2 fingers 60m 1 1/2 fingers 70m 1 fingers 80m 1/2 fingers STILL BELOW the ARROW 90m 0 fingers; STILL BELOW arrow, but TOUCHING it 100m 1 finger ABOVE the ARROW (MEDITERRANEAN) 110m 2 fingers ABOVE the arrow (1 below) :-O 120m 3 fingers ABOVE the arrow (pinky TOUCHING arrow) :-O OF COURSE you're going to ask the following perfectly-understandable question: DOES this place IMBALANCE on the bow limbs as they release? Answer: Yes... but ALL SHOTS (except ONE) place "IMBALANCE" On the bow limbs - the question is HOW MUCH IMBALANCE? And the answer is "An imbalance of about 5% - which ISN'T REALLY MUCH AT ALL" :-O ... You can place THAT much stress on ANY bow simply by pulling a little TOO HARD with your RING FINGER during the draw, so that your RING finger is the LAST finger to touch the bowstring during release instead of the index finger or middle finger :-O ... TODAY'S BOWS (and even bows of 50 years ago) were BUILT to handle such imbalances - I'm CONVINCED of this :) POINT OF THIS LONG-WINDED RESPONSE: FEEL FREE to EXPERIMENT with your OWN BOW'S LIMITS - you may be PLEASANTLY SURPRISED ! I regularly (multiple times a WEEK) take that $109 JUNXING bow and (using a "0 gap" draw) plug 5 out of 6 arrows on a 5ft target face at 90m (100 YARDS) - and people SEE me do this ALL THE TIME :-O . I'm NOT saying 5 out of 6 BULLSEYES. For GOD'S SAKE, shooting FEATHER HUNTING arrows at distances that result in 2-3 SECOND flight times, even a LITTLE cross wind WILL affect the arrow flight SIGNIFICANTLY, but I regularly put 3 of those 5 on-target arrows "in the BLUE" of a 120cm target tacked up at that distance :-O FULL DISCLOSURE: The 4th and 5th arrows are often somewhere on the "WHITE" (ZERO points) portion of the target, and most often the 6th arrow GRAZES the edge (top, left, right, rarely the bottom) of the target and MISSES. But on a CALM, WIND-LESS day, 5 out of 6 will be in-the-POINTS (and often 1 or 2 of those arrows are IN-the-GOLD, and I take pics to prove it!) :-O And all of this is nothing more than a REASONABLY-GOOD archer employing a SUPERIOR (NO errors DELIBERATELY introduced) SHOOTING METHOD :-) IN OTHER WORDS... I can (and DO!) teach OTHER newbie archers to shoot at all these distances in 5 SIMPLE STEPS and less than 2 MINUTES :-O How cool is THAT? Enjoy! -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Hi Dan ! Hahaha - nope - NOT "sky drawing" ;-) What you're seeing is a very REAL ELEVATION for a 45# recurve bow aimed POINT-ON-THE-BULLSEYE at a target 50m away - THAT"S the ACTUAL ANGLE of ELEVATION REQUIRED :-O HERE'S one of my ORIGINAL VIDEOS (back when I thought I could teach my method in only FOUR steps instead of FIVE!) where I show (from a side view in my back yard) just what the arrow's elevation LOOKS LIKE for ranges from 10m out to about 80m: th-cam.com/video/6zlKrIYAWYU/w-d-xo.html I think I need to UPDATE (REMAKE) this video - it was useful ! Let me know your thoughts, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS I'm going to disagree with your "point-on" and "elevation" argument as you clearly have a string crawl for a much shorter distance than 50 meters. The issue at hand is not the angle of elevation during aim at different distance; rather the argument is that your "draw to anchor" phase of your shot cycle is very high and dangerous. At 2:43, you draw very high up above your head with the arrow point angled far above the horizon. I have noticed in many of your other videos that you draw the same way almost every time, even in the one you linked in the response. An arrow loosed at that angle can go very far, well beyond the target and potentially outside the allotted range space. Most competitions will disqualify for sky drawing because it is so dangerous. You cannot minimize this danger with experience because accidents happen and all equipment have the potential to fail. You should be drawing level to the ground or target so a loose arrow stays within the range. It's everybody's responsibility to maintain a safe range.
Dan ! YOU WERE CORRECT TO DISAGREE WITH MY STATEMENT ABOUT "50m" - AND THIS CHANNEL IS THE BETTER FOR YOUR CORRECTION ! I made MULTIPLE videos that day - different topics, different distances. After reading your latest post, I went back and reviewed this video... ... and sure enough, even at the beginning I clearly STATED that I was aiming & shooting at a 20m TARGET ! NICE CATCH - MANY THANKS ! As for the ACTUAL TOPIC of your post (critiquing the steep angle of my draw-to-anchor)... Again, I reviewed the video, asking myself "WHY did I think this was OK???..." My answer? I'm shooting at BLACKWELL FOREST PRESERVE ARCHERY RANGE (Warrenville, IL), where the "background" BEHIND our 90m field targets is quite literally a LARGE HILL - 150 ft tall, 45 degree hillside, and about 200m wide. I've loosed arrow at full draw and 45 degrees, and still only made it less than 1/4 of the way up that hill (just had to see)... but THIS IS NO EXCUSE. The SUPERIOR, the SAFER, the INTELLIGENT way to draw IS to point directly at the bullseye and draw STRAIGHT BACK, thereby MAXIMIZING the likelihood that an accidently-loosed arrow simply ends up ON (or at least near) ONLY THE INTENDED TARGET. I ACCEPT your critique in the spirit in which it was given :-) Thank you for taking the time to help ME perfect MY art ! WATCH upcoming videos where I BRING THIS TOPIC UP, because as you & I agree it's IMPORTANT, and if there ARE people who are mimicking literally EVERYTHING they see ME actually DO, then it is my OBLIGATION to demonstrate only the BEST, SAFEST practices. You have my thanks! Kind regards, - Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Does the gap technique cause a loss of penetration at all or knockdown strength of the arrow. The only reason I ask is because I want to start using the technique for white tails?.
Lloyd, I've been barebow hunting since I made my first bow in Detroit Lakes High School Fall Semester Wood Shop back in 1978 :-O... ... and I've been using this shooting method for DECADES now, and HIT EVERY DEER I'VE EVER AIMED AT. Except one - that was me in a MAPLE tree shooting THROUGH a PINE TREE at a trotting buck 60 YARDS away. I was desperate. I admit it. The buck was SO focused on the scent he was was tracking he didn't even know I existed, but I didn't take another shot through that wall of pine boughs - wasted effort. The REALITY of STRINGWALKING is this: - you're only changing the DRAWING POINT at most about 1.5 inches across a 68 in bow string; - this changes your "Effective Draw Length" by less than 1/4 inch out of a 31.5 in Draw Length for me; - this represents a drop in "Effective Draw Weight" of 0.25/31.5 = 0.8%, or less than 1% :-) - this means that using StringWalking at its WORST (a distance of 15 yards) with a gap of 3 fingers (1.5 inches) changes my 55# Draw Weight to 54.5#; in other words NO REAL DIFFERENCE ! Hope this helps. BTW, this is a guy with MULTIPLE MASTERS DEGREES offering these responses: - Masters of Science - Mechanical Engineering (Robotics) - U of MN IT 1985 - Master of Science - Computer Science (AI) - IIT 1995 So I'm ready to go toe-to-toe with ANYONE who wants to come at me with a different point of view but only OPINIONS upon which to base it ;-) LOVE THESE TYPES OF QUESTIONS ! -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Trad, TOUCHING the nose with your bowstring as a "landmark" or "checkpoint" is a very NATURAL and PRACTICAL maneuver worthy of being added to your shooting method. I absolutely DO recommend it - it it works for you. What I DON'T recommend is an aiming technique where you deliberately place your nose BETWEEN the bowstring & the riser... Hope this helps, -Mark
The fact that it aligns everything is so important. The arrow, bow, line, D loop, peep sight, and release are straight. I never understood how people could shoot from the side of their cheek. Everything is off alignment. And it's really good with a compound bow because the release is flat in your hand and you can use any release you want. Awesome advice!
Shurmash,
You QUESTION WHAT YOU'VE BEEN TAUGHT - NEVER LOSE THAT QUALITY !!!
Glad you found something of value in these videos !
I don't get paid to make them - just a bit of Google Ad revenue - enough to buy an affordable bow to review once in a while.
My Target Audience - BAREBOW ARCHERS - is SO SMALL you couldn't possibly make a LIVING from that small of a population.
Nope - the only reason I do this is to MAKE PEOPLE FALL IN LOVE WITH ARCHERY BY SHOWING THEM A PRACTICAL, NO-MAGIC, SIMPLE WAY TO SHOOT BAREBOW WITH PRECISION and CONFIDENCE.
Getting feedback like yours makes my week!
Kind regards,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Awesome detailed description and camera angles. Thank you Mark I put this in to test next time. So far I have already managed to get few bullseye's from 20 feet (18m) which has been impossible with previous styles. It all about putting puzzle pieces in to their right places I feel. All steps needs to be on their rightful place and then you can enjoy the feeling and also actually see the arrow fly into the center of your target.
The first bullseye I got I literally stopped and paused everything and start analyzing what did just happen. That was so cool.
Thank you again Mark.
Greetings mmmSurvival Finland!
GLAD to hear you found the video useful !
YES INDEED it IS about simply putting the "5 Steps" together - that'll be why you're always HEARING me CALL OUT "The 5 Steps" with practically EVERY SHOT !
There's absolutely ZERO "MAGIC" to The VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD.
In fact it's exactly the OPPOSITE of "magic".
To ME?...
To ME it's more like shooting a rifle FROM THE HIP for 30 YEARS...
... and then suddenly realizing there are SIGHTS on the rifle that I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHERE THERE, until someone SHOWED me.
Cheers!
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
One more question. In the video you say to go to one's full draw and then place the string under chin. What if someone has his full draw behind the ear? For example I have long arms as a tall person so how on earth I managed to place anchor point under chin from so far behind. :)
This is a GOOOOOD one. I’ve been wanting to refine using your method. I have been having great success just “half” doing it. Thank you!!!
Greetings Kweli !
MUSIC TO MY EARS !
GLAD you've found VALUE in this video - even using it "half-way" !
;-)
My GOAL ISN'T to "force people to CONVERT" to my shooting method.
My goal IS to ENRICH the skillsets of other archers by giving them CHOICES ;-)
Cheers,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Now that you’ve masterfully explained how you anchor … the world will be mine!!! Bwaaa-hahahahahahahaha Thank you a thousand times!
Love your videos Mark. I'm struggling with my anchor as a newby to archery. I'll try this technique.
JAMES!!
MY shooting method's anchoebis simply the OLYMPIC RECURVE ARCHERY'S anchor - you can google it and see HUNDREDS of images from every angle!
Once you realize you're probably trying TOO HARD to make it TOO COMPLICATED, you'll be surprised how NATURAL it feels.
I was an INSTINCTIVE (stupid term) archer for most of my life until Ingot sick of getting my ass handed to me by EVERY Olympic Recurve Archer who shot at my range - even kids with 25# YOUTH BOWS.
Then I shut up, sat down and WATCHED how THEY did it... and realized there was absolutely NOTHING preventing ME from shooting a "BARE" bow the same way!
Looking forward to hearing from you again!
-Mark Vogt / VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Very interesting sir,I’m trying that tonight! I’ve already ordered a glove. I’ve shooting with a tab and three fingers under for sometime and anchoring at the corner of my mouth. You also explained that we can shoot one finger over for farther targets,I’ve never been told that before,can’t wait to try it,many thanks!
Greetings Phillip and welcome to VOGTLAND OUTDOORS !
SO MANY PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE that Stringwalking is simply ADJUSTING the ELEVATION of the arrow FROM THE REAR, by introducing a "GAP" between the NOCKING POINT of the arrow and the DRAWING POINT of your index finger. Then as you ANCHOR that index finger always always always UNDER YOUR CHIN, if that FINGER is in a DIFFERENT POSITION relative to the ARROW, then the ELEVATION CHANGES with each GAP.
SO SO SIMPLE.
SO SO TERRIBLY PRECISE as well, first measuring gaps with fingers, half-fingers, quarter-fingers and eight-fingers, then making simple, tiny adjustments with +/- a "wrap" or two. The result is calculate-able, measurable precision gaps down to +/- 1m even at distances of 50m :-O
But the COOLEST aspect of STRINGWALKING - and the one YOU are just now realizing?
That's RIGHT - your GAPS can be POSITIVE-measured BELOW the arrow or NEGATIVE-measured ABOVE the arrow :-O !
IN FACT, you can shoot ONE finger above the arrow (about 90m on a 50# bow), TWO fingers above the arrow (100m on a 50# bow, or 90m on a 45# bow) or even THREE fingers above the arrow (110m on a 50# bow, 100m on a 45# bow or 90m on a 35# bow) - it's EFFORTLESS !
TELL me what YOUR Draw Weight is, and I'll try to provide you "2 Magic Numbers of Stringwalking" for YOU :
- your "20m gap" aka your "INITIAL Gap"; and
- your "10m INTERVAL Gap"
Using these you can quickly (and easily) calculate ANY GAP you need to shoot from 5m to 110m !
Awaiting your reply,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS Hi Mark, thanks for the informative reply, I have problems now with arthritis and have had to keep reducing my draw weight down to 25# on my traditional recurve. In desperation I’ve been using a 40# combo (so much easier to draw) but I am finding it difficult to find arrows to suit (fish tailing) but I shall persevere,many thanks for going to the trouble of replying in such detail!
I like this guy! Awesome content !!!👍🏾👍🏾
MANY THANKS for positive feedback!
Mark Vogt / VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Great vid Mark, as are all your other vids on your method. Just picked up the bow again after 7 years of the bow being a wall ornament.... I want to get back to basics without all the fancy sights etc. Only one issue.. I think my nose is too big to look over!!
it was very usefull thank you so much you are a great guy👍👍
Thanks for sharing your shooting method. I looked at your "learn to shoot a bow in 5 minutes" and couldn't believe it. I walked into an archery store, found a bow that felt good to me and bought it before shooting it. 😂 They asked if I shoot much and my answer was,"nope". I asked if I could go a few rounds in the range. At 10 yards my grouping was awesome. All around the middle. I've never shot barebow and haven't shot a bow in about 20 yrs. The guys were stunned 😳.
One question, I'm using a 35 recurve and was wondering how much does the string walking change as I increase the draw weight? Thanks again🤙
Richard,
MUSIC TO MY EARS !!!
LOVE STORIES LIKE THIS !!!!!!!!
REGARDING the 2 "GAPS" of VOGTLAND STRING WALKING & HOW THEY CHANGE WITH DRAW WEIGHT...
SHORT ANSWER: NOT MUCH ... but you WILL need to make adjustments
HERE ARE SOME EXAMPLES:
WHEN I shoot a 25# bow of ANY kind, I have the following 2 gaps:
- my 20m "INITIAL GAP" is about 2 fingers; and
- my 10m "INTERVAL GAP" is about 1 finger for each 10m change in range;
WHEN I shoot a 45# bow of ANY kind, I have the following 2 gaps:
- my 20m "INITIAL GAP" is about 3 fingers exactly; and
- my 10m "INTERVAL GAP" is about 1/2 finger for each 10m change in range;
WHEN I shoot a 55# bow of ANY kind, I have the following 2 gaps:
- my 20m INITIAL GAP is about 3 1/2 fingers; and
- my 10m "INTERVAL GAP" is (surprisingly) still quite close to 1/2 finger for each 10m
SOMETIMES this gets adjusted just a little - to maybe 1/3 finger for each 10m
YOU'LL BE SURPRISED JUST HOW !@#$%^&* ACCURATE YOU CAN BE ON ALL BOWS WITHIN 30# to 55# with just the following 2 gaps:
- a 20m INITIAL GAP of 3 fingers; and
- a 10m INTERVAL GAP of 1/2 finger per 10m
GIVE THESE A TRY and REPORT BACK !!
Cheers,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Ive never seen someone hold the string so far below the knock of the arrow. Ive always put index over and middle and ring finger below knock.
Greetings Molan and welcome to VOGTLAND OUTDOORS !
Well... NOW you HAVE seen "StringWalking" in action - and there's LOTS that most bows CAN do that many "traditional" archers FALSELY claim CAN'T be done ;-) ...
Take for example anchoring "Mediterranean" style (1 finger over & 2 fingers under the arrow)...
For literally DECADES now nearly ALL bows (yes even COMPOUND bows!) have been designed to be shot with ALL 3 fingers BELOW the arrow - and it can (and does) go even FARTHER than that!
String Walking calculates & creates "gaps" - that distance created BETWEEN the "NOCKING POINT" of the arrow and the "DRAWING POINT" of the index finger on the drawing hand. When the index finger is anchored either along the cheek (note: while considered a "traditional" anchor, this anchoring method introduces ERROR AND loses distance!) or directly under the corner of the chin, this precisely sets the ELEVATION of the arrow, hence the DISTANCE the arrow travels as accurately as ANY sights on ANY compound bow :-O
What's REALLY COOL is that this gap can actually span a MUCH GREATER RANGE than most String Walking barebow archers think is even POSSIBLE :-O
AND since this Gap determines ARROW ELEVATION determines ARROW RANGE, this means most String Walking archers DON"T realize just was sort of RANGE of DISTANCES are possible with this method :-O - WANT an EXAMPLE?
TAKE my 55# JUNXING F163 Recurve bow ($109 on Amazon - I'm not kidding)
Using my VOGTLAND STRINGWALKING METHOD I can create gaps ranging as follows:
DISTANCE STRINGWALKING GAP (measured in "fingers" BELOW nocking point)
5m 4 1/2 fingers between NOCKING POING & INDEX FINGER
10m 4 fingers
20m 3 1/2 fingers
30m 3 fingers
40m 2 1/2 fingers
50m 2 fingers
60m 1 1/2 fingers
70m 1 fingers
80m 1/2 fingers STILL BELOW the ARROW
90m 0 fingers; STILL BELOW arrow, but TOUCHING it
100m 1 finger ABOVE the ARROW (MEDITERRANEAN)
110m 2 fingers ABOVE the arrow (1 below) :-O
120m 3 fingers ABOVE the arrow (pinky TOUCHING arrow) :-O
OF COURSE you're going to ask the following perfectly-understandable question:
DOES this place IMBALANCE on the bow limbs as they release?
Answer: Yes... but ALL SHOTS (except ONE) place "IMBALANCE" On the bow limbs - the question is HOW MUCH IMBALANCE? And the answer is "An imbalance of about 5% - which ISN'T REALLY MUCH AT ALL" :-O ...
You can place THAT much stress on ANY bow simply by pulling a little TOO HARD with your RING FINGER during the draw, so that your RING finger is the LAST finger to touch the bowstring during release instead of the index finger or middle finger :-O ...
TODAY'S BOWS (and even bows of 50 years ago) were BUILT to handle such imbalances - I'm CONVINCED of this :)
POINT OF THIS LONG-WINDED RESPONSE:
FEEL FREE to EXPERIMENT with your OWN BOW'S LIMITS - you may be PLEASANTLY SURPRISED !
I regularly (multiple times a WEEK) take that $109 JUNXING bow and (using a "0 gap" draw) plug 5 out of 6 arrows on a 5ft target face at 90m (100 YARDS) - and people SEE me do this ALL THE TIME :-O .
I'm NOT saying 5 out of 6 BULLSEYES.
For GOD'S SAKE, shooting FEATHER HUNTING arrows at distances that result in 2-3 SECOND flight times, even a LITTLE cross wind WILL affect the arrow flight SIGNIFICANTLY, but I regularly put 3 of those 5 on-target arrows "in the BLUE" of a 120cm target tacked up at that distance :-O
FULL DISCLOSURE:
The 4th and 5th arrows are often somewhere on the "WHITE" (ZERO points) portion of the target, and most often the 6th arrow GRAZES the edge (top, left, right, rarely the bottom) of the target and MISSES. But on a CALM, WIND-LESS day, 5 out of 6 will be in-the-POINTS (and often 1 or 2 of those arrows are IN-the-GOLD, and I take pics to prove it!) :-O
And all of this is nothing more than a REASONABLY-GOOD archer employing a SUPERIOR (NO errors DELIBERATELY introduced) SHOOTING METHOD :-)
IN OTHER WORDS...
I can (and DO!) teach OTHER newbie archers to shoot at all these distances in 5 SIMPLE STEPS and less than 2 MINUTES :-O
How cool is THAT?
Enjoy!
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
I noticed that your arrow is angled quite high when drawing to anchor. Would that be considered "sky drawing?"
Hi Dan !
Hahaha - nope - NOT "sky drawing" ;-)
What you're seeing is a very REAL ELEVATION for a 45# recurve bow aimed POINT-ON-THE-BULLSEYE at a target 50m away - THAT"S the ACTUAL ANGLE of ELEVATION REQUIRED :-O
HERE'S one of my ORIGINAL VIDEOS (back when I thought I could teach my method in only FOUR steps instead of FIVE!) where I show (from a side view in my back yard) just what the arrow's elevation LOOKS LIKE for ranges from 10m out to about 80m:
th-cam.com/video/6zlKrIYAWYU/w-d-xo.html
I think I need to UPDATE (REMAKE) this video - it was useful !
Let me know your thoughts,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS
I'm going to disagree with your "point-on" and "elevation" argument as you clearly have a string crawl for a much shorter distance than 50 meters. The issue at hand is not the angle of elevation during aim at different distance; rather the argument is that your "draw to anchor" phase of your shot cycle is very high and dangerous.
At 2:43, you draw very high up above your head with the arrow point angled far above the horizon. I have noticed in many of your other videos that you draw the same way almost every time, even in the one you linked in the response. An arrow loosed at that angle can go very far, well beyond the target and potentially outside the allotted range space. Most competitions will disqualify for sky drawing because it is so dangerous. You cannot minimize this danger with experience because accidents happen and all equipment have the potential to fail.
You should be drawing level to the ground or target so a loose arrow stays within the range. It's everybody's responsibility to maintain a safe range.
Dan !
YOU WERE CORRECT TO DISAGREE WITH MY STATEMENT ABOUT "50m" - AND THIS CHANNEL IS THE BETTER FOR YOUR CORRECTION !
I made MULTIPLE videos that day - different topics, different distances.
After reading your latest post, I went back and reviewed this video...
... and sure enough, even at the beginning I clearly STATED that I was aiming & shooting at a 20m TARGET !
NICE CATCH - MANY THANKS !
As for the ACTUAL TOPIC of your post (critiquing the steep angle of my draw-to-anchor)...
Again, I reviewed the video, asking myself "WHY did I think this was OK???..."
My answer?
I'm shooting at BLACKWELL FOREST PRESERVE ARCHERY RANGE (Warrenville, IL), where the "background" BEHIND our 90m field targets is quite literally a LARGE HILL - 150 ft tall, 45 degree hillside, and about 200m wide. I've loosed arrow at full draw and 45 degrees, and still only made it less than 1/4 of the way up that hill (just had to see)... but THIS IS NO EXCUSE.
The SUPERIOR, the SAFER, the INTELLIGENT way to draw IS to point directly at the bullseye and draw STRAIGHT BACK, thereby MAXIMIZING the likelihood that an accidently-loosed arrow simply ends up ON (or at least near) ONLY THE INTENDED TARGET.
I ACCEPT your critique in the spirit in which it was given :-)
Thank you for taking the time to help ME perfect MY art !
WATCH upcoming videos where I BRING THIS TOPIC UP, because as you & I agree it's IMPORTANT, and if there ARE people who are mimicking literally EVERYTHING they see ME actually DO, then it is my OBLIGATION to demonstrate only the BEST, SAFEST practices.
You have my thanks!
Kind regards,
- Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Does the gap technique cause a loss of penetration at all or knockdown strength of the arrow. The only reason I ask is because I want to start using the technique for white tails?.
Lloyd,
I've been barebow hunting since I made my first bow in Detroit Lakes High School Fall Semester Wood Shop back in 1978 :-O...
... and I've been using this shooting method for DECADES now, and HIT EVERY DEER I'VE EVER AIMED AT.
Except one - that was me in a MAPLE tree shooting THROUGH a PINE TREE at a trotting buck 60 YARDS away.
I was desperate. I admit it. The buck was SO focused on the scent he was was tracking he didn't even know I existed, but I didn't take another shot through that wall of pine boughs - wasted effort.
The REALITY of STRINGWALKING is this:
- you're only changing the DRAWING POINT at most about 1.5 inches across a 68 in bow string;
- this changes your "Effective Draw Length" by less than 1/4 inch out of a 31.5 in Draw Length for me;
- this represents a drop in "Effective Draw Weight" of 0.25/31.5 = 0.8%, or less than 1% :-)
- this means that using StringWalking at its WORST (a distance of 15 yards) with a gap of 3 fingers (1.5 inches) changes my 55# Draw Weight to 54.5#; in other words NO REAL DIFFERENCE !
Hope this helps.
BTW, this is a guy with MULTIPLE MASTERS DEGREES offering these responses:
- Masters of Science - Mechanical Engineering (Robotics) - U of MN IT 1985
- Master of Science - Computer Science (AI) - IIT 1995
So I'm ready to go toe-to-toe with ANYONE who wants to come at me with a different point of view but only OPINIONS upon which to base it ;-)
LOVE THESE TYPES OF QUESTIONS !
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS thank you so much. This was the answer I was looking for. Awesome description!!
People use the technique of touching the nose for vertical alignment. I do it too. Am I doing it wrong mark 🙂🙏.
Trad,
TOUCHING the nose with your bowstring as a "landmark" or "checkpoint" is a very NATURAL and PRACTICAL maneuver worthy of being added to your shooting method. I absolutely DO recommend it - it it works for you.
What I DON'T recommend is an aiming technique where you deliberately place your nose BETWEEN the bowstring & the riser...
Hope this helps,
-Mark
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS thank you