When seeing the stark contrasts between Orthodoxy and Protestantism, what the viewer *must* understand--if they are a sincere, truth-seeking, Christ-loving person--is that these distinctions are not just a matter of *preference*, where we simply choose whichever course feels right to us personally. The status of one paradigm's legitimacy v.s. the other is not proven by just stringing together enough "evidence" for or against either system and then just deciding whether or not we're convinced (according to our own standard for whatever quality and amount of evidence is sufficient)--it's about analyzing the very *foundations* of two vastly different epistemologies, and identifying when a particular framework you've adopted is 1) subjective 2) arbitrary 3) internally inconsistent 4) logically incoherent 5) subject to change 6) ahistorical 7) unbiblical and 8) operates according to numerous double-standards that are *necessary* for the system to sustain itself. My contention is that Sola Scriptura is precisely this kind of foundation--it's a system built on sand. So, all other arguments are utterly moot--all disagreements over higher-order theology or anything else Orthodox-related that people struggle to understand or accept doesn't matter, because the alternative is already rendered untenable. There is no other recourse. To rectify this, one must be prepared to surrender their preconceived notions about the faith, and whatever doctrines they've wedded themselves to that are incompatible with the historic witness of the Church that *gave* you the Bible. Any other course of action is to doom oneself to be forever locked into a viscous stalemate of self-inflicted ignorance and/or delusion. But this is not what Christ wants for any of us! And, to ensure this would not be our fate, He made a Way. All we have to do is follow Him. Enjoin yourself to the Body of Christ, being mystically received into His one, true Church. Come to Holy Orthodoxy.
The body of christ is not the imperial Christian cult of emperors. You don't even keep thr same teachings because your church's Christology is an abomination
@@HusGoose The issue is that Scripture itself runs contrary to this view, and the view of the Reformation, and places Authority in the Church, the Body of Christ, not in itself. Scripture has become like an Idol, something that exists in place of God. I came to Holy Orthodoxy from Protestantism, mostly low church evangelical traditions and at the end a begrudgingly Lutheran view. Eventually it tracked that no Protestant Church was even in continuity with itself, ever changing doctrines and ever separating sects. I was pushed over the edge that Evangelicalism is a offshoot of Lutheranism and shared in basically nothing with it's forebears when Scripture states that the Church is Unchanging as Christ is Unchanging. I couldn't in good conscience join myself to any Lutheran Denomination and ended up darkening the door of a Greek Orthodox Church at the end of the Coof and knew I was home.
@@acekoala457 you are completely wrong. Only scripture is Theonupstos. The church is full of fallible men who have done fallible things throughout time. Churches are also capable of losing their lapstsnd if they lose the gospel. People in the EO would know this if they read the warnings in the text. But they don’t. They love taking the clergy’s word for what is worth believing in. If a church cannot honesty represent then clear text and it’s plain meaning, there is not an issue with the text… there is only an indictment on a church. Hence we come to EO and the itching ears therein.
@@Brettimus_Maximus_Autisticus if this even provoked any response videos at all, I'd deem that a victory in itself. I'm trying to stir their conscience here, so if some get triggered and feel offended, then it's a necessary sacrifice that can't be avoided...so yea, might as well grab some popcorn 😂
@@traviswilson36 you ignore it because you can't deal with the substance of the arguments, which is why you don't offer any actual responses other than ad hominems and strawmen. All deflection, rather than taking an opportunity to engage in actual dialogue, which is sad.
How so? Better yet, can you give me the name of a real protestant church? I'd like to find one myself. I think the problem might be that people are so ignorant and dumb that they can't figure out that most of these churches calling themselves Protestant are not actually protestant. And I'm not saying you are ignorant I'm just saying when I've heard these statements from most people is that when I asked them what church is Protestant I would really love to go to it, they keep naming me churches that are not Protestant
@@UncensoredChristian Amen brother! I pray that you continue to pursue the one true faith--the spiritual fruits only get more rewarding the deeper you go. ☦️
@@chrislucastheprotestantviewProtestant is a reasonable catch all for those who protest (the holy tradition and church) and do their own thing. Some say that the Lutherans and Presbyterians, etc, are the only ones that are truly “protestant” because of the history.
@OrthobroAustin well, I consider Andreas Karlstadt and Polycarp as protestant, because they actually protested the Roman church breaking away from apostolic teachings. Polycarp and the quartodecimans rejected Roman bishop Anicetus claims that he had the apostolic authority to change Passover to Easter Sunday and Sabbath to the weekly Sunday the Roman Bishop claimed to have this Authority but he could never demonstrate it or prove it to polycarp and this Authority has never been proven. So actually the Roman Church and the Orthodox Church are actually the ones that are breaking away from the apostolic teachings we see in the Bible and they're doing their own thing and being Wicked
@@OrthobroAustin by the way I think Martin Luther held back the Protestant Reformation due to his anti-semitism and he rejected going Sola scriptura because he hated the Jews so much he didn't want to adopt anything that looked remotely Jewish even though it was scriptural. That's why he's silenced Andreas karlstadt
Hands down one of if not the easiest to understand and precise EO apologetic video essay I’ve seen. You did an excellent job laying out the material in a way that meets the average Protestant at their own educational level in terms of scriptural understanding and church history. I say this as someone who spent years wrestling with these questions myself before finally coming home. I’ll be referring people to this video as the opportunities present themselves, God bless ☦️.
@@TheChadmiral thanks for the input brother. I just tried to break it down in a way that I would have wanted explained to me--and I have specific people in mind whose reasoning process I'm trying to appeal to, because I know how Protestants think. So I'm glad you feel moved to share it with others as well. May it be blessed!
@@HusGoose starting a conversation by immediately presuming to know another's motives doesn't inspire much confidence as far as your own motives go. "I know for certain that this is disingenuous", said the disingenuous man. That's how that comes across. Because, historical ignorance is one thing we agree on, though you've clearly missed the entire point of the video in assuming your own modern position is the standard by which to evaluate all others. Most often, the objections I hear from Protestants are mere assertions that amount to little more than "nuh uh", without ever actually justifying their criticism with any explanation. Care to address the actual substance of any of the arguments?
@@orthodox_soul no, reformed theology isn’t new or novel. If any EO knew church history they would know this. One of the reasons this video is a self-own. The reformation was about getting back to original intent. Asking grown up questions like: What did the writers of scriptures mean when they said what they said? How do we know what they meant? Well reading them in the context they established of course. Not reading contemporary beliefs or bizarre middle aged traditions into the text… that is called eisegesis. EO drifted from original intent over time and now resembles nothing anywhere close to what scripture intended, especially around salvation and sanctification. It’s why EO must suppress scripture, which is Theonupstos and elevate the ecclesia that is not. Just the opinions of a bunch of dudes with laughably low reading comprehension over time. Leading to contemporary EO with low reading comprehension but a love for tradition and great beards.
@@HusGoose be honest, did you watch the video in its entirety? Because one of the central arguments I make is concerning the "original intent" of the Scriptures, and how we know what it was (and still is). Your comment gives the impression that you did *not* watch that far in, or else one would assume you would have responded to that specific point instead of making an identical argument that is already addressed in the video. Everything you've said thus far still adds up to nothing more than assertions. So, I'm now asking for the 2nd time: would you care to address any of the actual arguments that were made? Otherwise, this is just hot air and empty claims void of any merit that aren't worth time engaging with.
@@pharobron I decided it was time to cut loose a little bit and reveal the silly person that I actually am behind all the serious apologetics 😅 glad you enjoyed it!
@@orthodox_soul nah that's what made this video so authentic (in addition to ALL the information to gave and how you put it together). You definitely got a sub out of me brother. Pray for me, I am a protestant in a biblical studies program that has now been drawn to Holy Orthodoxy. Not an easy transition especially culturally but by the Grace of God He will lead us to all Truth.
@@pharobron glory to God! That's fantastic to hear my friend. It can definitely be an intense transition process. I covered my own journey pretty extensively in my testimony video, so I can relate to those sentiments whole heartedly. But I'll tell you, for every spiritual, emotional or even physical obstacle that the enemy tries to put in your path to distract or discourage you, you can always rest in the promise that "those who persevere to the end will be saved." God will make a way 🙏🏽☦️
Keep making videos, I'm only 30 minutes in and I'm already thinking how this is one of the best Orthodox vids on utube I have watched in a while. All love and peace from God on High and God within, to you my Orthodox friend and brother.
I have never seen you before! I am now commenting because I can already tell this is good and want to boost the algorithm. I realized it had to be necessary due to the weight that Ireneus puts on it in Against Heresies Book 3, along with the skeleton laid forth by Saint Ignatius. However, I feel people do not emphasize this topic enough! So, godspeed, soldier! The Lord is with thee!
Excellent video that God-willing reaches many! If I may, I would argue that from 1 and 2 Timothy, we can conclude that the ministerial authority was passed on to third and fourth generation Christians. Thus, the objection that apostolic succession ceased with 2nd generation Christians not only has no merit but is disproven by these verses which directly contradict it: "Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, nor take part in the sins of others; keep yourself pure." (1 Timothy 5:22) Paul is instructing Timothy to be careful who he lays hands on. This presumes Timothy has the authority to pass on ministerial authority to 3rd generation Christians. "and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust to faithful men, who will be able to teach others also." (2 Timothy 2:2) The Greek word "hikanoi" is translated here as "able," but a more precise definition is "qualified." This means that Paul says the mechanism he lays out to Timothy to pass on the faith WILL produce competent and qualified men to lead and teach.
I undertake enacting the ideal notion of driving my platonically-ideal car which exists forever in potentiality. By it I potentially go to ideal places via perfectly straight lines of traverse. On the perfect iteration of Sunday my platonic ideal of a car takes me to an invisible, always potential church where the platonic angels sing.
Interesting, but I'm Roman Catholic..I took me 28 years to see such..I've listened to Orthodox thinkers and apologist like David Bradshaw, Jay Dyer etc n thanks for such..
@@dynamic9016 I appreciate the feedback, and I'm glad you could still appreciate the material and have been open to learning from Orthodox, despite being Catholic. I hope your studies continue to help you grow in your faith. 🙏🏽
And it seems Orthodoxy has done the same in many ways with independent jurisdictions ex-communicating each other whenever they have political differences. Craig Truglia admits there is evidence for Roman Catholic succession from the pope.
@@lepajelena7441 St. Optatus of Milevis (360-80): “And though this has been thus written, nevertheless, for the sake of unity, blessed Peter (for whom it would have been enough if after his denial he had obtained pardon only) both deserved to be placed over all the Apostles, and alone received the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, which he was to communicate to the rest” Will you [the Donatists] be able to prove that the Chair of Peter is a lie--and the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, which were granted him by Christ, with which we are in communion?” (Book 7.3 from Against Parmenian).
@@lepajelena7441 don’t say It’s not mentioned in Scripture or your Sola. Don’t say the early councils because they are not dogmatic or catechetical like Catholics.
It's interesting to note that at the time of the reformation it was popular amongst reformers to deny the authenticity of St. Ignatius of Antioch's Epistles so the denial of the episcopate is based on this ignorance. So it is the anti episcopal protestant who follows the traditions of ignorant men, ironically enough.
You should study the history of the manuscripts. There were spurious manuscripts in the recension that the Western church had - it wasn't until the late 1800s that discoveries that further discoveries gave Western theologians confidence to study the letters.
Ironically, it was largely Protestant scholarship that vindicated the Epistles of St. Ignatius as authentic. The spurious ones were never part of the Eastern tradition.
I am new to your channel and was baptized and Chrismated on Lazarus Saturday this year. I love this video. Thank you for the time and research. I know it's laborious. I was raised in a oneness Pentecostal church, I was 4th generation in that movement, and later went on to Trinitarian Pentecostalism. I still have friends and family that are oneness Pentecostal and particularly a lifelong friend who now pastors the church we grew up in. He is fairly knowledgeable, but contends that oneness folks, and "Jesus name baptism" has existed through various groups in the first few centuries particularly. I would love for you to tackle the topic of heresies in the first 3 centuries and how the church maintained continuity. Thanks again for your service. May God Grant You Many Years
@@Paisios77 Glory to God! I'm glad you found your way to the true Church my brother. It's good to have your support. I do intend to address the subject of heresy in a general sense, somewhere down the road. I have it in the project queue 👍🏽
I just watched this and your testimony video and both are very well written and produced. It’s nice to watch videos of such high quality. Keep up the good videos.
Your thumbnail is pretty good, though I think you could afford to make the protestant gaggle bigger, along with the title text. It can be hard to read thumbnails on smaller devices, so it's good to maximize text size.
@@KnoxEmDown I actually had an inner debate over that exact issue as I toyed around with the graphic and tried a few different sizing options. I'll bare that in mind in the future, thanks for the input 🙏🏽
@@orthodox_soul Any time hoss, you hooked me in the first 5 seconds of your video with the slick meme. I recommend using the new multiple thumbnail testing option if it's available to you.
@@josiahkeen I suppose it depends on the circumstance/context you mean? There can be scenarios where one bishop is over-reaching into the canonical jurisdiction of another bishop, or tries to unilaterally exercise authority in some universal capacity, which is inappropriate and unorthodox. But here in America, the situation is rather unique, because there can be multiple jurisdictions present in a single city--so, for there to be multiple bishops representing different autocephalous churches is to be expected.
In your first paragraph are you referring to the EP's actions in Ukraine and his claim to have authority over the barbarian lands (including America)? In your second paragraph, concerning America, there are some Orthodox who say while the situation in understandable given recent history is nevertheless uncanonical. How serious do you see these issues relative to the Orthodox claims of ecclesiology?
@@josiahkeen that would be one example, yea. Whichever end of the spectrum is in question--whether it's Ecumenism blurring the lines of canonical boundaries or hyper legalism going the route of schism--canonical irregularities can certainly manifest in a handful of ways. These matters are to be taken serious in the sense that the threat of schism caused by such canonical disputes typically scandalize the faithful and are detrimental to everyone if it happens. But I don't take it serious in the sense that Orthodox claims of ecclesiology are affected by these issues in general. The fact that certain irregularities or the occasional infighting happens has nothing to do with whether or not Orthodox ecclesiology itself is true *in principle*. All it really demonstrates is that we're sinners. No surprise there.
@@orthodox_soul Thank you for your response and your willingness to admit that Orthodox are not fulfilling in practice what they teach in principle. The events of recent years surrounding the EP and MP, vaccine debates, reception of converts etc have only increased the gulf between what the Orthodox canons lay out on how the heirs of the apostles are to govern and how the bishops are actually governing. I'd love to see more honest admission and exploration of this by Orthodox apologists as it will only be a matter of time before converts/inquirers will discover these issues. So far Fr. Josiah is where I see the most engagement with this topic and it isn't on his top 10 of issues he posts about.
@@josiahkeen Historically the Canon of 1 Bishop per city has been circumvented by putting Bishop over individual burghs in Larger Cities, which could be done in America but there is much pride in being the "Metropolitan of New York". 90% of Orthodox will say that it is a problem but offer no solution. Only 2 Jurisdictions have made moves to get away from NY, but not other Multi-Episcopal Cities, the OCA moved it's Metropolitan See to DC, which makes sense, and Antioch is going to make her first Cathedral, St. Nicholas in Brooklyn, into a Auxiliary See and move the Metropolitan See to Pennsylvania. No insofar as the Sacraments, this situation doesn't effect them until a Council calls it to issue, which the Bishops absolutely should.
Wonderful Video! ☦️❤️ My whole family (parents and so on) are all Protestant, but the ironic thing is they are all different types. No one can agree fully with one another. I hope that someday that they will see the problem with that and the many other problems their separate denominations have, and come to the Holy Orthodox Church and all her glory!
Do Orthodox have a term for those people who are baptized into the Orthodox Church and visibly attending and participating in its worship but who are "stiff-necked" with "hearts and ears uncircumcised" (Acts 7:51)? Perhaps Orthodox don't conceive of such people existing?
Oh yes, of course we do. There is just as much the concept in Orthodoxy of "those who are Christian in name only" as there is anywhere else. I've encountered plenty of individuals like that myself since I converted. After all, if we didn't conceive of anyone that way, then it'd seem we wouldn't be able to have any concept of people being heretics, since--historically speaking--that is the category of "believer" that you're describing as being stiff necked and hard-hearted. It's a problem of the will. The sacraments are vitally important, but not to the exclusion of having humility and actual repentance; otherwise, the externals are basically moot.
@@orthodox_soul Thank you for the response. The way I understand the Reformed teaching on visible vs invisible is precisely this distinction. Reformed Protestants do believe there is a visible church with teaching, discipline, ordinances, and government but that many who are members of this visible church may be only externally attending are not truly united to Christ. You cited the WCF which along with the Belgic Confession do state that there are qualities that distinguish a true and false visible church. I recognize that not every Protestant has this teaching and that perhaps the "invisible church" idea has led some not to consider whether there is a visible church at all.
Brother Macarius! Such a great video! Thanks for being you and breaking this stuff down into a video that I could feel comfortable sharing with someone without thinking “hmmmm this video explains a lot but not in a way that is understandable fully to who I’m sending it to” Love ! Great work ! 💜☦️💜
Thank you so much for this! While some of it was admittedly "above my pay grade" its still accessible enough that I appreciate the logical consistency of the Orthodox Church all the more!
It’s obvious he hasn’t been to a liturgy. He watched some cute tick tocks and wanted to jump on the trend. He doesn’t know a Bible from a copy of green eggs and ham.
St. John Chrysostom, Patriarch of Constantinople (c. 387) Peter himself the Head or Crown of the Apostles, the First in the Church, the Friend of Christ, who received a revelation, not from man, but from the Father, as the Lord bears witness to him, saying, 'Blessed art thou, This very Peter and when I name Peter I name that unbroken Rock, that firm Foundation, the Great Apostle, First of the disciples, the First called, and the First who obeyed he was guilty ...even denying the Lord." (Chrysostom, T. ii. Hom) Peter, the Leader of the choir of Apostles, the Mouth of the disciples, the Pillar of the Church, the Buttress of the faith, the Foundation of the confession, the Fisherman of the universe. (Chrysostom, T. iii Hom).
I’m EO looking for understanding people to rebutt the saints’ opinion of St Peter. Tired of him being denigrated the way Prots denigrate the Holy Virgin. John VI, Patriarch of Constantinople (715) The Pope of Rome, the head of the Christian priesthood, whom in Peter, the Lord commanded to confirm his brethren. (John VI, Epist. ad Constantin. Pap. ad. Combefis, Auctuar. Bibl. P.P. Graec.tom. ii. p. 211, seq.) St. Nicephorus, Patriarch of Constantinople (758-828) Without whom (the Romans presiding in the seventh Council) a doctrine brought forward in the Church could not, even though confirmed by canonical decrees and by ecclesiastical usuage, ever obtain full approval or currency. For it is they (the Popes of Rome) who have had assigned to them the rule in sacred things, and who have received into their hands the dignity of headship among the Apostles. (Nicephorus, Niceph. Cpl. pro. s. imag. c 25 [Mai N. Bibl. pp. ii. 30]). John VI, Patriarch of Constantinople (715) The Pope of Rome, the head of the Christian priesthood, whom in Peter, the Lord commanded to confirm his brethren. (John VI, Epist. ad Constantin. Pap. ad. Combefis, Auctuar. Bibl. P.P. Graec.tom. ii. p. 211, seq.) St. Nicephorus, Patriarch of Constantinople (758-828) Without whom (the Romans presiding in the seventh Council) a doctrine brought forward in the Church could not, even though confirmed by canonical decrees and by ecclesiastical usuage, ever obtain full approval or currency. For it is they (the Popes of Rome) who have had assigned to them the rule in sacred things, and who have received into their hands the dignity of headship among the Apostles. (Nicephorus, Niceph. Cpl. pro. s. imag. c 25 [Mai N. Bibl. pp. ii. 30]).
St. Optatus of Milevis (360-80): “And though this has been thus written, nevertheless, for the sake of unity, blessed Peter (for whom it would have been enough if after his denial he had obtained pardon only) both deserved to be placed over all the Apostles, and alone received the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, which he was to communicate to the rest” Will you [the Donatists] be able to prove that the Chair of Peter is a lie--and the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, which were granted him by Christ, with which we are in communion?” (Book 7.3 from Against Parmenian). St. Optatus of Milevis (360-80): “And though this has been thus written, nevertheless, for the sake of unity, blessed Peter (for whom it would have been enough if after his denial he had obtained pardon only) both deserved to be placed over all the Apostles, and alone received the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, which he was to communicate to the rest” Will you [the Donatists] be able to prove that the Chair of Peter is a lie--and the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, which were granted him by Christ, with which we are in communion?” (Book 7.3 from Against Parmenian). And he said to him: I will give to you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven (Matthew 16: 18-19); so to speak he [Peter] alone receives the powers of binding and loosing. And since that one man [Peter] must have spoken for everyone, and since here he must have received [the keys] as the bearing person of unity itself; therefore one [receives] for everyone, because unity is in everyone [of the apostles] (Alcuin of York, Commentary on the Gospel of John, Patrologia Latina 100: 0983A). And though this has been thus written, nevertheless, for the sake of unity, blessed Peter (for whom it would have been enough if after his denial he had obtained pardon only) both deserved to be placed over all the Apostles, and alone received the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, which he was to communicate to the rest (Saint Optatus of Milevis, Book 7.3 from Against Parmenian). And yet, out of the whole world, one, Peter, is chosen, who presides both at the call of the Gentiles, and over all the apostles and collected fathers of the Church; so that though there be , among God’s people, many priests and many shepherds, yet Peter especially rules all whom Christ also rules originally. Beloved, it is a great and wonderful sharing of his own power which the divine honor bestowed on this man, and if he wished that other rulers should be in common with him, yet he did never give except through him what he denied to others....’I will give unto thee the keys’….the right of this power did indeed pass on to the other apostles, and the order of this decree passed on to all chiefs of the Church; but not in vain was that which was imparted to all was entrusted to one”.…So then in Peter the strength of all is fortified, and the help of divine grace is so ordered that the stability which through Christ is given to Peter, through Peter is conveyed to the other Apostles” (Saint Leo the Great, Sermon 4, PL 54.149)
ive heard it said that St Peter and his successors were particularly blessed by God to be leaders in the Church - insofar as they kept to Orthodoxy. not sure if this helps but thought id share
St. Peter wasn't the first bishop of Rome. St. Linus was. Read the apostolic constitutions. St. Peter was bishop of Antioch so any papal post hoc "keys" and all the quote mine decontextualized nonsense theology would have to apply to Antioch but it doesn't because it's later circular innovations to justify Rome's heresy. Romes honor was based on being the martyrdom site of two apostles St. Peter and St. Paul. (Hence the feast of Ss. Peter and Paul). There is no feast of "St. Peter bishop of Rome." Making up stuff about St. Peter is far more dishonourable.
@@NavelOrangeGazer Thanks for the nonsense Naval ManGayzer!!!! You have an incoherent argument. Pope St Peter at Antioch has no relevance whatsoever to where he was martyred, or Second in his ministry. 🥱 I won’t respond to this level of emotional projecting and incoherence. Sorry. You’re not ready for this. Refute the saints! Not me.
Nope. God said to try the spirits to see if they are of Him. And the Orthodoxy/Roman Catholic church is not of Him. We are also to be like the Bereans and search the Scriptures daily to see if what we're being told is true. Orthodoxy/Romam Catholicism is false. Read the Old Testament. Those who willingly followed after false teachers were punished along with them. Your church is as much of a cult as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
@@gooberpeas535 Be honest, did you actually watch the video? Because, all I see is you making assertions, but not addressing any of the actual arguments that were made. In which case, there'd be no reason to take what you're saying seriously.
Your Beroean example is aside from both your point, and the Holy Paul’s point. He stated that they received the word with eagerness and were more noble-minded in searching the scripture to see the truth of this apostolic preaching (which they already eagerly received, but searched the scripture to discern whether or not that is right), in contrast to those who simply openly rejected the apostolic preaching out of pocket like the large number of Jews unconvinced at his preaching in Thessaloniki. His point is not that it is better to be skeptical and test things against your private reading of the scripture, it is in fact this skepticism which condemned the Jews in Thessaloniki who likely already preferred a Rabbinic understanding of the scriptures which put them in opposition to holy Paul, it is the eager receptiveness coupled with the desire to understand the truth which shows the Beroeans more noble minded. Moreover, the gospel says, “Whoever receives you receives me, whoever rejects you rejects me” Those who accept the apostolic preaching without scrupulous deferment to their own reading of scripture are in no way less noble-minded.
@@traviswilson36 Well the Church has always believed in the Theotokos being cared for in the Temple, as we can find evidence of Orphaned Girls because cared for in contemporary manuscripts from the period. This is attested to very early in Christian History, the Church didn't approve wholly the Protoevangelium of James because like Enoch it wasn't used in the Liturgy and couldn't be wholly attested to St. James. But they did state that it reflects some Church Traditions. The Icons being windows to Heaven is the opposite of Gnostic. As Gnostics believed that matter was evil and many Gnostic sects rejected that Christ even had a physical body. So you're 0-2. Sorry.
@@acekoala457Travis's approach and tone alone disqualify him from being taken seriously in a discussion about Christ, before even getting to his ill founded claims. The internet is full of trolls. He is one of them.
![Lord of Spirits - Mutatis Mutandis [100th Episode!]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aPJ8FltccG4/mqdefault.jpg)
When seeing the stark contrasts between Orthodoxy and Protestantism, what the viewer *must* understand--if they are a sincere, truth-seeking, Christ-loving person--is that these distinctions are not just a matter of *preference*, where we simply choose whichever course feels right to us personally.
The status of one paradigm's legitimacy v.s. the other is not proven by just stringing together enough "evidence" for or against either system and then just deciding whether or not we're convinced (according to our own standard for whatever quality and amount of evidence is sufficient)--it's about analyzing the very *foundations* of two vastly different epistemologies, and identifying when a particular framework you've adopted is 1) subjective 2) arbitrary 3) internally inconsistent 4) logically incoherent 5) subject to change 6) ahistorical 7) unbiblical and 8) operates according to numerous double-standards that are *necessary* for the system to sustain itself.
My contention is that Sola Scriptura is precisely this kind of foundation--it's a system built on sand. So, all other arguments are utterly moot--all disagreements over higher-order theology or anything else Orthodox-related that people struggle to understand or accept doesn't matter, because the alternative is already rendered untenable. There is no other recourse.
To rectify this, one must be prepared to surrender their preconceived notions about the faith, and whatever doctrines they've wedded themselves to that are incompatible with the historic witness of the Church that *gave* you the Bible. Any other course of action is to doom oneself to be forever locked into a viscous stalemate of self-inflicted ignorance and/or delusion. But this is not what Christ wants for any of us! And, to ensure this would not be our fate, He made a Way.
All we have to do is follow Him.
Enjoin yourself to the Body of Christ, being mystically received into His one, true Church.
Come to Holy Orthodoxy.
The body of christ is not the imperial Christian cult of emperors.
You don't even keep thr same teachings because your church's Christology is an abomination
@@orthodox_soul did you really just say basing faith and theological understanding on scripture alone is sinking sand?
@@HusGoose
The issue is that Scripture itself runs contrary to this view, and the view of the Reformation, and places Authority in the Church, the Body of Christ, not in itself.
Scripture has become like an Idol, something that exists in place of God.
I came to Holy Orthodoxy from Protestantism, mostly low church evangelical traditions and at the end a begrudgingly Lutheran view. Eventually it tracked that no Protestant Church was even in continuity with itself, ever changing doctrines and ever separating sects. I was pushed over the edge that Evangelicalism is a offshoot of Lutheranism and shared in basically nothing with it's forebears when Scripture states that the Church is Unchanging as Christ is Unchanging. I couldn't in good conscience join myself to any Lutheran Denomination and ended up darkening the door of a Greek Orthodox Church at the end of the Coof and knew I was home.
@@acekoala457 you are completely wrong. Only scripture is Theonupstos. The church is full of fallible men who have done fallible things throughout time. Churches are also capable of losing their lapstsnd if they lose the gospel. People in the EO would know this if they read the warnings in the text. But they don’t. They love taking the clergy’s word for what is worth believing in.
If a church cannot honesty represent then clear text and it’s plain meaning, there is not an issue with the text… there is only an indictment on a church. Hence we come to EO and the itching ears therein.
@@traviswilson36 yes that’s exactly what he said. EO reading comprehension on full display.
Almost two hours of not only thought provoking, but also high production value content?… Glory to God for all things! Thank you and may it be blessed.
My thoughts exactly
🔥
He has never been to church. He wouldn’t know a Bible form a copy of Harry Potter
The protestant cope response videos will require popcorn. Well done. Glory to God. ☦️
@@Brettimus_Maximus_Autisticus if this even provoked any response videos at all, I'd deem that a victory in itself. I'm trying to stir their conscience here, so if some get triggered and feel offended, then it's a necessary sacrifice that can't be avoided...so yea, might as well grab some popcorn 😂
Cringe orthobro
Nah we ignore this armchair theologian
@@traviswilson36 you ignore it because you can't deal with the substance of the arguments, which is why you don't offer any actual responses other than ad hominems and strawmen. All deflection, rather than taking an opportunity to engage in actual dialogue, which is sad.
@@orthodox_soul Bro your blm hairstyle is cringe. Your gnostic infested cult is cringe. Praying to Mary for salvation is cringe.
I’m in the process of leaving Protestantism. The evidence for orthodoxy is overwhelming!
How so? Better yet, can you give me the name of a real protestant church? I'd like to find one myself.
I think the problem might be that people are so ignorant and dumb that they can't figure out that most of these churches calling themselves Protestant are not actually protestant.
And I'm not saying you are ignorant I'm just saying when I've heard these statements from most people is that when I asked them what church is Protestant I would really love to go to it, they keep naming me churches that are not Protestant
@@UncensoredChristian Amen brother! I pray that you continue to pursue the one true faith--the spiritual fruits only get more rewarding the deeper you go. ☦️
@@chrislucastheprotestantviewProtestant is a reasonable catch all for those who protest (the holy tradition and church) and do their own thing. Some say that the Lutherans and Presbyterians, etc, are the only ones that are truly “protestant” because of the history.
@OrthobroAustin well, I consider Andreas Karlstadt and Polycarp as protestant, because they actually protested the Roman church breaking away from apostolic teachings.
Polycarp and the quartodecimans rejected Roman bishop Anicetus claims that he had the apostolic authority to change Passover to Easter Sunday and Sabbath to the weekly Sunday the Roman Bishop claimed to have this Authority but he could never demonstrate it or prove it to polycarp and this Authority has never been proven. So actually the Roman Church and the Orthodox Church are actually the ones that are breaking away from the apostolic teachings we see in the Bible and they're doing their own thing and being Wicked
@@OrthobroAustin by the way I think Martin Luther held back the Protestant Reformation due to his anti-semitism and he rejected going Sola scriptura because he hated the Jews so much he didn't want to adopt anything that looked remotely Jewish even though it was scriptural. That's why he's silenced Andreas karlstadt
Hands down one of if not the easiest to understand and precise EO apologetic video essay I’ve seen. You did an excellent job laying out the material in a way that meets the average Protestant at their own educational level in terms of scriptural understanding and church history. I say this as someone who spent years wrestling with these questions myself before finally coming home. I’ll be referring people to this video as the opportunities present themselves, God bless ☦️.
@@TheChadmiral thanks for the input brother. I just tried to break it down in a way that I would have wanted explained to me--and I have specific people in mind whose reasoning process I'm trying to appeal to, because I know how Protestants think. So I'm glad you feel moved to share it with others as well. May it be blessed!
Great quality video but just the same old same from the EO… praying upon the historically ignorant to justify their errant theology and sotieriology.
@@HusGoose starting a conversation by immediately presuming to know another's motives doesn't inspire much confidence as far as your own motives go. "I know for certain that this is disingenuous", said the disingenuous man. That's how that comes across. Because, historical ignorance is one thing we agree on, though you've clearly missed the entire point of the video in assuming your own modern position is the standard by which to evaluate all others.
Most often, the objections I hear from Protestants are mere assertions that amount to little more than "nuh uh", without ever actually justifying their criticism with any explanation. Care to address the actual substance of any of the arguments?
@@orthodox_soul no, reformed theology isn’t new or novel. If any EO knew church history they would know this. One of the reasons this video is a self-own. The reformation was about getting back to original intent. Asking grown up questions like: What did the writers of scriptures mean when they said what they said? How do we know what they meant? Well reading them in the context they established of course. Not reading contemporary beliefs or bizarre middle aged traditions into the text… that is called eisegesis.
EO drifted from original intent over time and now resembles nothing anywhere close to what scripture intended, especially around salvation and sanctification. It’s why EO must suppress scripture, which is Theonupstos and elevate the ecclesia that is not. Just the opinions of a bunch of dudes with laughably low reading comprehension over time. Leading to contemporary EO with low reading comprehension but a love for tradition and great beards.
@@HusGoose be honest, did you watch the video in its entirety? Because one of the central arguments I make is concerning the "original intent" of the Scriptures, and how we know what it was (and still is).
Your comment gives the impression that you did *not* watch that far in, or else one would assume you would have responded to that specific point instead of making an identical argument that is already addressed in the video. Everything you've said thus far still adds up to nothing more than assertions. So, I'm now asking for the 2nd time: would you care to address any of the actual arguments that were made? Otherwise, this is just hot air and empty claims void of any merit that aren't worth time engaging with.
You put in some crazy effort for this. Thank you for your time energy and effort.
Also you're hilarious 😂
@@pharobron I decided it was time to cut loose a little bit and reveal the silly person that I actually am behind all the serious apologetics 😅 glad you enjoyed it!
@@orthodox_soul nah that's what made this video so authentic (in addition to ALL the information to gave and how you put it together). You definitely got a sub out of me brother.
Pray for me, I am a protestant in a biblical studies program that has now been drawn to Holy Orthodoxy. Not an easy transition especially culturally but by the Grace of God He will lead us to all Truth.
@@pharobron glory to God! That's fantastic to hear my friend. It can definitely be an intense transition process. I covered my own journey pretty extensively in my testimony video, so I can relate to those sentiments whole heartedly. But I'll tell you, for every spiritual, emotional or even physical obstacle that the enemy tries to put in your path to distract or discourage you, you can always rest in the promise that "those who persevere to the end will be saved."
God will make a way 🙏🏽☦️
Alright, I'll hear more. Lol
No
Keep making videos, I'm only 30 minutes in and I'm already thinking how this is one of the best Orthodox vids on utube I have watched in a while. All love and peace from God on High and God within, to you my Orthodox friend and brother.
I have never seen you before! I am now commenting because I can already tell this is good and want to boost the algorithm. I realized it had to be necessary due to the weight that Ireneus puts on it in Against Heresies Book 3, along with the skeleton laid forth by Saint Ignatius. However, I feel people do not emphasize this topic enough! So, godspeed, soldier! The Lord is with thee!
@@avriel6903 I appreciate your support! 😁 And amen!
Excellent video that God-willing reaches many!
If I may, I would argue that from 1 and 2 Timothy, we can conclude that the ministerial authority was passed on to third and fourth generation Christians. Thus, the objection that apostolic succession ceased with 2nd generation Christians not only has no merit but is disproven by these verses which directly contradict it:
"Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, nor take part in the sins of others; keep yourself pure." (1 Timothy 5:22)
Paul is instructing Timothy to be careful who he lays hands on. This presumes Timothy has the authority to pass on ministerial authority to 3rd generation Christians.
"and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust to faithful men, who will be able to teach others also." (2 Timothy 2:2)
The Greek word "hikanoi" is translated here as "able," but a more precise definition is "qualified." This means that Paul says the mechanism he lays out to Timothy to pass on the faith WILL produce competent and qualified men to lead and teach.
@@Journey_of_Abundance excellent points! Apart from just sheer ignorance of church history, there really is no denying it.
Re: Correct. 2 Timothy 2:2 is 100% affirmation of Holy Tradition, which of course includes Apostolic Succession.
CHRIST is King! ✝️☦️
Excellent video Sir well done 🫡
Epic. Don't stop brother.
☦️☦️☦️
I undertake enacting the ideal notion of driving my platonically-ideal car which exists forever in potentiality. By it I potentially go to ideal places via perfectly straight lines of traverse. On the perfect iteration of Sunday my platonic ideal of a car takes me to an invisible, always potential church where the platonic angels sing.
@@claesvanoldenphatt9972 bro, this is metaphysically hilarious 😂
Interesting, but I'm Roman Catholic..I took me 28 years to see such..I've listened to Orthodox thinkers and apologist like David Bradshaw, Jay Dyer etc n thanks for such..
@@dynamic9016 I appreciate the feedback, and I'm glad you could still appreciate the material and have been open to learning from Orthodox, despite being Catholic. I hope your studies continue to help you grow in your faith. 🙏🏽
I have to say, I've learned alot from you brother. Glory to God! ☦️
☦️ Excellent 👏 👏 👏 Protestantism turned people into their own infallible pope 😂
And it seems Orthodoxy has done the same in many ways with independent jurisdictions ex-communicating each other whenever they have political differences.
Craig Truglia admits there is evidence for Roman Catholic succession from the pope.
@@mythologicalmyth There is not apostolic succession in the papacy because they don’t have the faith or communion.
@@lepajelena7441 prove it!
@@lepajelena7441 St. Optatus of Milevis (360-80):
“And though this has been thus written, nevertheless, for the sake of unity, blessed Peter (for whom it would have been enough if after his denial he had obtained pardon only) both deserved to be placed over all the Apostles, and alone received the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, which he was to communicate to the rest”
Will you [the Donatists] be able to prove that the Chair of Peter is a lie--and the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, which were granted him by Christ, with which we are in communion?”
(Book 7.3 from Against Parmenian).
@@lepajelena7441 don’t say It’s not mentioned in Scripture or your Sola. Don’t say the early councils because they are not dogmatic or catechetical like Catholics.
Glory to God, i was making car example for a few years to show unity in multiplicity and the distinction between universals and particulars
Eastern Orthodoxy is the True Authentic Original Apostolic Church!!!
This was very well produced and articulated! Keep up the good work and God bless!
It's interesting to note that at the time of the reformation it was popular amongst reformers to deny the authenticity of St. Ignatius of Antioch's Epistles so the denial of the episcopate is based on this ignorance.
So it is the anti episcopal protestant who follows the traditions of ignorant men, ironically enough.
You should study the history of the manuscripts. There were spurious manuscripts in the recension that the Western church had - it wasn't until the late 1800s that discoveries that further discoveries gave Western theologians confidence to study the letters.
@@josiahkeen we know now so anyone following men from the 1500s divorced from the Church is just being obstinate in their own pride.
Ironically, it was largely Protestant scholarship that vindicated the Epistles of St. Ignatius as authentic. The spurious ones were never part of the Eastern tradition.
I am new to your channel and was baptized and Chrismated on Lazarus Saturday this year.
I love this video. Thank you for the time and research. I know it's laborious.
I was raised in a oneness Pentecostal church, I was 4th generation in that movement, and later went on to Trinitarian Pentecostalism. I still have friends and family that are oneness Pentecostal and particularly a lifelong friend who now pastors the church we grew up in. He is fairly knowledgeable, but contends that oneness folks, and "Jesus name baptism" has existed through various groups in the first few centuries particularly.
I would love for you to tackle the topic of heresies in the first 3 centuries and how the church maintained continuity.
Thanks again for your service. May God Grant You Many Years
@@Paisios77 Glory to God! I'm glad you found your way to the true Church my brother. It's good to have your support.
I do intend to address the subject of heresy in a general sense, somewhere down the road. I have it in the project queue 👍🏽
@@orthodox_soul I will be following your channel! Looking forward to your videos. Thanks again.
Perfect video! God bless you for your efforts.
I just watched this and your testimony video and both are very well written and produced. It’s nice to watch videos of such high quality. Keep up the good videos.
It’s not. He’s desperate for friends
Keep up the great work
How can I find a valid orthodox church in my area. I looked in Google maps and am thoroughly confused? Thanks if you reply.
What region of the world are you in?
Your thumbnail is pretty good, though I think you could afford to make the protestant gaggle bigger, along with the title text. It can be hard to read thumbnails on smaller devices, so it's good to maximize text size.
@@KnoxEmDown I actually had an inner debate over that exact issue as I toyed around with the graphic and tried a few different sizing options. I'll bare that in mind in the future, thanks for the input 🙏🏽
@@orthodox_soul Any time hoss, you hooked me in the first 5 seconds of your video with the slick meme. I recommend using the new multiple thumbnail testing option if it's available to you.
Thank you for your work. God bless you and may our Lord Jesus Christ open their eyes and heart to see the truth!!! Lord have mercy on us all🙏🙏🙏
Amen! I hope many Orthodox choose to share this with their Protestant friends and family.
We are so back
How will the Protestants ever recover from this?
Another S-tier video
☦️☦️☦️ Glory to God!
We will brush off his unqualified and lazy critiques.
Is it canonical to have multiple bishops under different patriarchs expressing apostolic authority in the same city?
@@josiahkeen I suppose it depends on the circumstance/context you mean?
There can be scenarios where one bishop is over-reaching into the canonical jurisdiction of another bishop, or tries to unilaterally exercise authority in some universal capacity, which is inappropriate and unorthodox.
But here in America, the situation is rather unique, because there can be multiple jurisdictions present in a single city--so, for there to be multiple bishops representing different autocephalous churches is to be expected.
In your first paragraph are you referring to the EP's actions in Ukraine and his claim to have authority over the barbarian lands (including America)? In your second paragraph, concerning America, there are some Orthodox who say while the situation in understandable given recent history is nevertheless uncanonical. How serious do you see these issues relative to the Orthodox claims of ecclesiology?
@@josiahkeen that would be one example, yea.
Whichever end of the spectrum is in question--whether it's Ecumenism blurring the lines of canonical boundaries or hyper legalism going the route of schism--canonical irregularities can certainly manifest in a handful of ways.
These matters are to be taken serious in the sense that the threat of schism caused by such canonical disputes typically scandalize the faithful and are detrimental to everyone if it happens. But I don't take it serious in the sense that Orthodox claims of ecclesiology are affected by these issues in general. The fact that certain irregularities or the occasional infighting happens has nothing to do with whether or not Orthodox ecclesiology itself is true *in principle*.
All it really demonstrates is that we're sinners. No surprise there.
@@orthodox_soul Thank you for your response and your willingness to admit that Orthodox are not fulfilling in practice what they teach in principle. The events of recent years surrounding the EP and MP, vaccine debates, reception of converts etc have only increased the gulf between what the Orthodox canons lay out on how the heirs of the apostles are to govern and how the bishops are actually governing. I'd love to see more honest admission and exploration of this by Orthodox apologists as it will only be a matter of time before converts/inquirers will discover these issues. So far Fr. Josiah is where I see the most engagement with this topic and it isn't on his top 10 of issues he posts about.
@@josiahkeen
Historically the Canon of 1 Bishop per city has been circumvented by putting Bishop over individual burghs in Larger Cities, which could be done in America but there is much pride in being the "Metropolitan of New York".
90% of Orthodox will say that it is a problem but offer no solution. Only 2 Jurisdictions have made moves to get away from NY, but not other Multi-Episcopal Cities, the OCA moved it's Metropolitan See to DC, which makes sense, and Antioch is going to make her first Cathedral, St. Nicholas in Brooklyn, into a Auxiliary See and move the Metropolitan See to Pennsylvania.
No insofar as the Sacraments, this situation doesn't effect them until a Council calls it to issue, which the Bishops absolutely should.
Wonderful Video! ☦️❤️
My whole family (parents and so on) are all Protestant, but the ironic thing is they are all different types.
No one can agree fully with one another. I hope that someday that they will see the problem with that and the many other problems their separate denominations have, and come to the Holy Orthodox Church and all her glory!
Brother this video is awesome. I was finally able to finish it due to my hectic schedule. May God bless you, your family and parish. ☦ ☦ ☦
Excellent, high quality, informative video brother! Would love to have a video on the cannon! God bless you and your family 🙏🏿☦
i apologize for my previous comment
@@yecksd not at all, enthusiasm is encouraged! I got plenty silly myself in the video anyway haha
Do Orthodox have a term for those people who are baptized into the Orthodox Church and visibly attending and participating in its worship but who are "stiff-necked" with "hearts and ears uncircumcised" (Acts 7:51)? Perhaps Orthodox don't conceive of such people existing?
Oh yes, of course we do. There is just as much the concept in Orthodoxy of "those who are Christian in name only" as there is anywhere else. I've encountered plenty of individuals like that myself since I converted.
After all, if we didn't conceive of anyone that way, then it'd seem we wouldn't be able to have any concept of people being heretics, since--historically speaking--that is the category of "believer" that you're describing as being stiff necked and hard-hearted. It's a problem of the will. The sacraments are vitally important, but not to the exclusion of having humility and actual repentance; otherwise, the externals are basically moot.
@@orthodox_soul Thank you for the response. The way I understand the Reformed teaching on visible vs invisible is precisely this distinction. Reformed Protestants do believe there is a visible church with teaching, discipline, ordinances, and government but that many who are members of this visible church may be only externally attending are not truly united to Christ. You cited the WCF which along with the Belgic Confession do state that there are qualities that distinguish a true and false visible church. I recognize that not every Protestant has this teaching and that perhaps the "invisible church" idea has led some not to consider whether there is a visible church at all.
"It is good that they are here"
Brother Macarius! Such a great video! Thanks for being you and breaking this stuff down into a video that I could feel comfortable sharing with someone without thinking “hmmmm this video explains a lot but not in a way that is understandable fully to who I’m sending it to”
Love !
Great work !
💜☦️💜
Masterful!
Nah uh it is weak and a lazy critique.
Thank you so much for this! While some of it was admittedly "above my pay grade" its still accessible enough that I appreciate the logical consistency of the Orthodox Church all the more!
The absence of authority creates chaos and confusion.
Edits Go crazy. Good video. Glory to God.! ☦️
34:21 Church slavonic ❤
What is the name of the track that is played during the “authority in scripture” part? The choir is really beautiful and id love to listen to it
neckbeard cringe volume 5
This is the best orthodox video I’ve seen. Production is fantastic and the content even better 🙏🏻 Thank you for this!
Nah
Super-Luther-Man… got me😆
On serious note though, great video! Glory to God for all things!!
you have low standards
Such high producthion value great content god bless i hope thee is more to come
He hasn’t been to church. He wouldn’t know the Bible from a learn the alphabet book
Good stuff. How long have you been orthodox?
It’s obvious he hasn’t been to a liturgy. He watched some cute tick tocks and wanted to jump on the trend. He doesn’t know a Bible from a copy of green eggs and ham.
St. John Chrysostom, Patriarch of Constantinople (c. 387)
Peter himself the Head or Crown of the Apostles, the First in the Church, the Friend of Christ, who received a revelation, not from man, but from the Father, as the Lord bears witness to him, saying, 'Blessed art thou, This very Peter and when I name Peter I name that unbroken Rock, that firm Foundation, the Great Apostle, First of the disciples, the First called, and the First who obeyed he was guilty ...even denying the Lord." (Chrysostom, T. ii. Hom)
Peter, the Leader of the choir of Apostles, the Mouth of the disciples, the Pillar of the Church, the Buttress of the faith, the Foundation of the confession, the Fisherman of the universe. (Chrysostom, T. iii Hom).
Excellent presentation
No it’s mid.
I’m EO looking for understanding people to rebutt the saints’ opinion of St Peter. Tired of him being denigrated the way Prots denigrate the Holy Virgin.
John VI, Patriarch of Constantinople (715)
The Pope of Rome, the head of the Christian priesthood, whom in Peter, the Lord commanded to confirm his brethren. (John VI, Epist. ad Constantin. Pap. ad. Combefis, Auctuar. Bibl. P.P. Graec.tom. ii. p. 211, seq.)
St. Nicephorus, Patriarch of Constantinople (758-828)
Without whom (the Romans presiding in the seventh Council) a doctrine brought forward in the Church could not, even though confirmed by canonical decrees and by ecclesiastical usuage, ever obtain full approval or currency. For it is they (the Popes of Rome) who have had assigned to them the rule in sacred things, and who have received into their hands the dignity of headship among the Apostles. (Nicephorus, Niceph. Cpl. pro. s. imag. c 25 [Mai N. Bibl. pp. ii. 30]).
John VI, Patriarch of Constantinople (715)
The Pope of Rome, the head of the Christian priesthood, whom in Peter, the Lord commanded to confirm his brethren. (John VI, Epist. ad Constantin. Pap. ad. Combefis, Auctuar. Bibl. P.P. Graec.tom. ii. p. 211, seq.)
St. Nicephorus, Patriarch of Constantinople (758-828)
Without whom (the Romans presiding in the seventh Council) a doctrine brought forward in the Church could not, even though confirmed by canonical decrees and by ecclesiastical usuage, ever obtain full approval or currency. For it is they (the Popes of Rome) who have had assigned to them the rule in sacred things, and who have received into their hands the dignity of headship among the Apostles. (Nicephorus, Niceph. Cpl. pro. s. imag. c 25 [Mai N. Bibl. pp. ii. 30]).
St. Optatus of Milevis (360-80):
“And though this has been thus written, nevertheless, for the sake of unity, blessed Peter (for whom it would have been enough if after his denial he had obtained pardon only) both deserved to be placed over all the Apostles, and alone received the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, which he was to communicate to the rest”
Will you [the Donatists] be able to prove that the Chair of Peter is a lie--and the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, which were granted him by Christ, with which we are in communion?”
(Book 7.3 from Against Parmenian).
St. Optatus of Milevis (360-80):
“And though this has been thus written, nevertheless, for the sake of unity, blessed Peter (for whom it would have been enough if after his denial he had obtained pardon only) both deserved to be placed over all the Apostles, and alone received the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, which he was to communicate to the rest”
Will you [the Donatists] be able to prove that the Chair of Peter is a lie--and the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, which were granted him by Christ, with which we are in communion?”
(Book 7.3 from Against Parmenian).
And he said to him: I will give to you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven (Matthew 16: 18-19); so to speak he [Peter] alone receives the powers of binding and loosing. And since that one man [Peter] must have spoken for everyone, and since here he must have received [the keys] as the bearing person of unity itself; therefore one [receives] for everyone, because unity is in everyone [of the apostles] (Alcuin of York, Commentary on the Gospel of John, Patrologia Latina 100: 0983A).
And though this has been thus written, nevertheless, for the sake of unity, blessed Peter (for whom it would have been enough if after his denial he had obtained pardon only) both deserved to be placed over all the Apostles, and alone received the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, which he was to communicate to the rest (Saint Optatus of Milevis, Book 7.3 from Against Parmenian).
And yet, out of the whole world, one, Peter, is chosen, who presides both at the call of the Gentiles, and over all the apostles and collected fathers of the Church; so that though there be , among God’s people, many priests and many shepherds, yet Peter especially rules all whom Christ also rules originally. Beloved, it is a great and wonderful sharing of his own power which the divine honor bestowed on this man, and if he wished that other rulers should be in common with him, yet he did never give except through him what he denied to others....’I will give unto thee the keys’….the right of this power did indeed pass on to the other apostles, and the order of this decree passed on to all chiefs of the Church; but not in vain was that which was imparted to all was entrusted to one”.…So then in Peter the strength of all is fortified, and the help of divine grace is so ordered that the stability which through Christ is given to Peter, through Peter is conveyed to the other Apostles” (Saint Leo the Great, Sermon 4, PL 54.149)
ive heard it said that St Peter and his successors were particularly blessed by God to be leaders in the Church - insofar as they kept to Orthodoxy. not sure if this helps but thought id share
St. Peter wasn't the first bishop of Rome. St. Linus was. Read the apostolic constitutions.
St. Peter was bishop of Antioch so any papal post hoc "keys" and all the quote mine decontextualized nonsense theology would have to apply to Antioch but it doesn't because it's later circular innovations to justify Rome's heresy.
Romes honor was based on being the martyrdom site of two apostles St. Peter and St. Paul. (Hence the feast of Ss. Peter and Paul). There is no feast of "St. Peter bishop of Rome."
Making up stuff about St. Peter is far more dishonourable.
@@NavelOrangeGazer 🥱
The Antioch Peter First spaghetti.
@@NavelOrangeGazer Thanks for the nonsense Naval ManGayzer!!!!
You have an incoherent argument.
Pope St Peter at Antioch has no relevance whatsoever to where he was martyred, or Second in his ministry.
🥱
I won’t respond to this level of emotional projecting and incoherence.
Sorry. You’re not ready for this.
Refute the saints! Not me.
more banger content yummers
Cringe comment
❤
Nope. God said to try the spirits to see if they are of Him. And the Orthodoxy/Roman Catholic church is not of Him. We are also to be like the Bereans and search the Scriptures daily to see if what we're being told is true. Orthodoxy/Romam Catholicism is false.
Read the Old Testament. Those who willingly followed after false teachers were punished along with them.
Your church is as much of a cult as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
So which church would you say a person should be a member of? I believe it is the Orthodox Church, which church would you say?
@@gooberpeas535 Be honest, did you actually watch the video? Because, all I see is you making assertions, but not addressing any of the actual arguments that were made. In which case, there'd be no reason to take what you're saying seriously.
My man, calling God's 2000 year old church a cult on the level of watchtower with no evidence Is probably not the best decision.
Your Beroean example is aside from both your point, and the Holy Paul’s point. He stated that they received the word with eagerness and were more noble-minded in searching the scripture to see the truth of this apostolic preaching (which they already eagerly received, but searched the scripture to discern whether or not that is right), in contrast to those who simply openly rejected the apostolic preaching out of pocket like the large number of Jews unconvinced at his preaching in Thessaloniki. His point is not that it is better to be skeptical and test things against your private reading of the scripture, it is in fact this skepticism which condemned the Jews in Thessaloniki who likely already preferred a Rabbinic understanding of the scriptures which put them in opposition to holy Paul, it is the eager receptiveness coupled with the desire to understand the truth which shows the Beroeans more noble minded.
Moreover, the gospel says, “Whoever receives you receives me, whoever rejects you rejects me” Those who accept the apostolic preaching without scrupulous deferment to their own reading of scripture are in no way less noble-minded.
"Your Church is a cult."
Until you need to justify the Scriptural Canon.
The Orthodox pick and choose certain sayings from the fathers. Most of your beliefs about saints are gnostic LOLLOL
Care to give any examples of the Church Fathers expousing Gnostic Beliefs?
@@acekoala457 The fable of Mary being exalted at a temple when she was a child. How icons are a gateway to heaven. Lolololol such fake such cringe
@@traviswilson36
Well the Church has always believed in the Theotokos being cared for in the Temple, as we can find evidence of Orphaned Girls because cared for in contemporary manuscripts from the period. This is attested to very early in Christian History, the Church didn't approve wholly the Protoevangelium of James because like Enoch it wasn't used in the Liturgy and couldn't be wholly attested to St. James. But they did state that it reflects some Church Traditions.
The Icons being windows to Heaven is the opposite of Gnostic. As Gnostics believed that matter was evil and many Gnostic sects rejected that Christ even had a physical body.
So you're 0-2. Sorry.
@@acekoala457 Yikes. It is obvious you never go to church and get your info from Reddit and blm nutjobs like this clown who made this video
@@acekoala457Travis's approach and tone alone disqualify him from being taken seriously in a discussion about Christ, before even getting to his ill founded claims. The internet is full of trolls. He is one of them.