Fantastic interview! Thank you to Andrea for sharing her insight and lived experience. I appreciate her compassionate, incisive and perceptive point of view.
I’ve somehow ended up with 3 friends who are social workers. They’re all really different and work in different areas with different client bases. It’s a misunderstood area and my perception is that it’s turned into a problem dumping ground for the “too hard” client that needs help, but those making the referrals don’t always understand that complex problems don’t have a quick fix. Certainly is a job I would completely suck at.
I’ve been a social worker for 30 years, and this narcissistic rant has nothing to do with social work but everything to prove she needs therapy because her BOD and her narcissistic comments- eg she was too good for core social work when she hadn’t even graduated ( so zero experience), and she considers herself superior to clients which is actually against the social work code of ethics. Somebody should take her license away. She is dangerous, especially with vulnerable people- it’s so obvious
Just an observation that Andrea’s intolerance and judgement of her courses, lecturers, institutions, while ostensibly valid, indicates a surprising rigidity of thinking that may not indicate a personality profile conducive to long term social work. If she’s gonna get pissy and leave because of her dissonance and judgement that they aren’t teaching what she thinks they should be shows a fundamental weakness that will probably burn her out in social work. When she walks away from and is that intolerant of something she expects to be a certain way, could be a problem she probably needs mentoring around. Cause the institutions she’s going to be working for, the people she will work with, and the clients she will have, will be sooo much worse. Kinda surprised she’s in her 30’s and after all the study she’s done, she’s not hearing herself. This comes from my understanding that uni’s just want money, that lecturers often suck, that what we learn at uni is merely the tippy tippy top of the iceberg of knowledge required for our professions and will barely give the fundamentals, and Andrea wants perfection in her course, her lecturers and for them to agree with her thinking and viewpoint and experience. I wonder what she’ll be like if she has a client she spends hours upon hours organising services for, listens to, supports, believes… and then the clients goes and trash’s everything and screams that she didn’t help at all. Andrea, I wish you well, you’ve chosen an extremely difficult, undervalued, under funded frontline profession.
Agreed on how tough the job is. I guess it makes sense if you have the resources as a student to be choosy; I wouldn't necessarily infer that she's the same way with clients or other situations
@@Therapy2Day true. ‘‘Twas a possibly unfair extrapolation and tis why I utterly have no aptitude for either therapy or social work. Thank goodness you do! ☺️
@@thatsaniceboulder1483 Yeah, I was also thinking this as well. I was also thinking that her tendency to trash talk universities and agencies so openly is not going to bode well for her professionally. My fear is that her lack of fear around doing so will result in agencies not wanting to hire her and colleagues not wanting to work with her.
@@Therapy2Day this is why I listen to you Isiah. I know I make judgments and am practicing asking “why”, and looking to incorporate being more patient. You’re excellent at modelling that. Keep doing it. When you demonstrate and vocalise your thinking and analysis it makes me analyse myself and compare where I can do better. I want to know what questions are going through your head, what information you’re looking for. How do you assess a patient’s engagement. I want to learn better how to prioritise when to call bullshit and when to sit back and let things lie. Your analysis of the estranged mother was interesting because it demonstrated your restraint whereas my ass was judging so hard😄. I like being called out when I’m judgy because it makes me think and understand myself more. I give permission to ask “boulder, how high up are your judgy pants?” Merch idea😄
A lot of these comments seem to be from people who were expecting like a criminal minds episode or one of those “body language expert” analyses. There’s a lot of arm chair psychologizing going on in the replies that seems to be informed by those types of shows and videos. But criminal profiling and body language analysis are very pseudoscience-y, and I think it would have been inappropriate for Andrea to try and actually psychoanalyze a woman she’s never met. That would have been very trashy true crime sensationalism of her. She treaded carefully in that respect, and she’s simply giving her perspective as a social worker with a background in sociology who went to the same school as Payton Shires. She’s answering the questions asked of her and staying within her area of expertise/experience, giving her perspective. I’d also guess that a lot of the commenters accusing her of being sanctimonious are a little bit triggered by the political implications of terms like “culture of abuse” and “systemic issues” and stuff like that. It did bother me when it seemed as though Andrea might be denying the accountability of a child rapist, but i don’t know if it’s because I disagree with her or because I’m just too disgusted by Shire’s crimes to take on that type of systemic analysis. Maybe I’m also a little wary of the potential to downplay male victimhood, especially in cases of sexual abuse and especially when the perpetrator is a woman. Maybe I would have preferred if Andrea’s critique had been framed in a different way, maybe without the Payton Shire framing. Idk. But I definitely agree with her on a lot of things, especially the need to gatekeep, the need for mental health care for mental health care workers, the burnout involved in social work, and the fact that a lot of mental disorders are still stigmatized in psychology courses/training. I think I learned more about schizophrenia, borderline, and dissociative identity disorder from people with those diagnoses just posting their own personal experiences on youtube than i did in my abnormal psych class. In my experience in undergrad psych, a lot of mental disorders were discussed in a kind of stigmatizing way, especially dissociative identity disorder.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment in response to this interview. I am not a forensic psychologist, and even if I was, it would be unethical to offer anything beyond general speculation about the case without thorough assessment of the harm doer. I am with you on the true crime and body language “expert” content, which is troubling to me for many reasons you mention. I am trained from a base of sociology, conduct systemic social science research, and have worked clinically as a therapist, primarily with marginalized folks who have complex trauma and/or personality disorders. I am also trained in organization/group/community analysis and intervention. So you are correct in noting that is what informs my scope and therefore how I interpret and discuss things. I also want to respond to the concerns about dismissing harm and abuse. I believe in transformative justice over retributive justice. I understand that this comes off as dismissive in some instances. I am careful with my language around those who cause harm and the harms done, because in a retributive model of justice, people are often individually targeted and punished for systemic failures and thus are not offered systemic solutions. I believe that most (not all) people who cause harm do not revel in harms they cause, and if given proper support, can be held accountable in community and reintegrate into community safely with decreased or very low potential to repeat harms. I believe our language, beliefs, and extant systems around “justice” are inhumane and fundamentally do not serve anyone, nor do they protect those who have been harmed. In transformative justice models of accountability, there are separate conversations that are had to accommodate the person/s harmed and those who have caused harm, which are held in broader dialogue in a group that facilitates accountability, mediating between the harmed/harm doer. It is a lengthy process and requires a lot of willingness from all involved to confront the complex reality of harm, but it is intended to be more holistic, systemic, and effective than dehumanizing, scapegoating, and ostracizing those who have been harmed. I also think it is helpful for many who have been harmed. Personally, I have found much greater peace in my own experiences of being handled transformatively rather than retrubutively. It aligns more with my values, and helps me move out of the kind of “survival mode” to know that someone who has caused me harm knows the impact of the harm done to me and has the insight and support to repair and change so that we could both heal. I wish we had better systems to support those who have been harmed and more humane approaches to confronting harm doers and the harmful systems/cultural norms that enable harm and the dismissal of it. I hope this was helpful or clarifying in some way. I am always happy to share resources on transformative justice if folks are interested. Again, I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your comment and your feedback/voicing your concerns. -Andrea
That was the first I had heard of it too, but I only watch true crime for the purpose of this channel. It's possible someone else had floated the idea without me knowing
@@Therapy2Dayit does seem a strange reason given the charges and evidence and amount of violence included in the crime. I am sort of hoping that something behind the scenes that we don't know has been going on
Hi Isaiah, Andrea said that we are a "culture of abuse." What does this mean?? Do you and the other viewers agree with this?? It is very interesting statement.
@@robertzee4799 I took it to mean that abuse (improper use of power) is baked into our culture, and that it is not just solely an individual saying "I want to abuse my position". I can follow up with her to ask for clarification, though!
Hi it’s me Andrea. What I mean by a culture of abuse is that we live in a society in which certain groups of people have power over other groups of people- e.g., men over women, adults over children, wealthy over non-wealthy, etc. Power differentials lend themselves to abuse as abuse is defined as power over another through the use of coercive control. This is based in the theory of a culture of violence. A prominent example of a culture of violence is rape culture, or a culture in which sexual violence is normalized on smaller social system levels, media, and policy. One example of this is spousal rape being legal prior to the 1970s, which primarily affected and disadvantaged women who were more or less viewed as property (objectification) of their husbands after marriage. The legal nature of spousal rape reflected other cultural and social norms about women and their rights to bodily autonomy while also offering no legal recourse to women in sexually (and often otherwise) abusive partnerships, which would also affect children through exposure to violence and thus perpetuated the cycle of violence intergenerationally. This is just one example, but it can also be seen in things like use of physical abuse or corporal punishment of children, which used to be highly normalized and is now largely considered as harmful and likely to lead to similarly troubling patterns of intergenerational transmission of mental health issues, negative parenting strategies, and trauma. I would argue that the outrage folks feel about Payton being given a light sentence is part of this as well. We don’t take sexual violence perpetration as seriously as we should and people are often not brought to justice as a result. It is very common and unlikely to be remedied through the prison system alone. Prisons rely on punishment and do not often provide services necessary to adequately address psychological issues and social learnings within a culture of violence and abuse to transform folks who cause harm and prevent further harm. They can often make it worse because they participate in the culture of abuse and violence through punishment and isolation of folks who cause harm, which extends beyond the sentence in many ways. I am of the mind that we should consider the ways in which our systems and culture maintain or enable a culture of violence and abuse in order to change our approach and prevent harms like this from happening because as I mentioned in the video, I think we’re very quick to focus on the harm doer and their psychology to explain what has transpired, while overlooking how systems fail to prevent harm, and in many cases had failed the person who caused harm initially (as they are often abuse survivors) which led to their harm of another. Relying on punishment, prisons, and sex offender registries alone has not been effective and will not suffice in disrupting these patterns over time. I hope that was helpful and let me know if you have additional questions!
@@Therapy2Day Thanks, Isaiah. Maybe because our culture can be so competitive. Clarification would be nice. Like Andrea, I thought something was remiss in Shires' training, too: she got in trouble so soon. Did OSU not discuss with her what to do in such difficult situations with clients?? She did not even try to hide it well. Any comments from anyone??
Andrea has no experience- don’t believe a word she says. My gosh, Isiah, who is your next interview? Jodi Hildebrandt? Andrea is in the same level of narcissistic abuse given she has no skills and ability and already thinks she is superior- seriously WTF
In a therapeutic sense, I have no clue how they would even begin to address pedophilia. I watch a **lot** of Law and Crime network (embarrassing I know lol) but there seems to have been a surge of woman pedos lately.
Agreed. It's kind of alarming how many of those videos (and that's just what is publicly available) there are. It's dangerous too because that situation doesn't fit our normal stereotype of a predator
@@Therapy2Day Exactly, I think it helps people see that predation can (and does) exist in many different spaces. Emotional immaturity or arrested development really should be addressed more if this is the ongoing result of it.
I think one way of understanding what Andrea is saying is that people with personality disorders aren’t criminals. (I guess that Andrea also is trying to say that this goes for other groups of people as well, but PD is used as an example here because it’s what people have theorized being Shiers diagnosis and/or potentially the cause of some of her decision makings?). I’m struggling with the next part, which would answer the question of why someone with this type of condition commit crimes. How is it linked to the crime? How is the potential PD linked with all of this (more than the stigmatization which leads to issues such as not getting treatment, identifying potentially maladaptive patterns etc)? Andrea goes over issues with the system, the population, the education etc. Those issues would indicate that people who want to commit crimes will commit crimes because of the opportunity for doing so (and also the lack of protective mechanisms, such as education and supervision). Is this a ‘the opportunity creates the criminals’ type of situation? How could a PD in this circumstance make some who otherwise wouldn’t commit a crime, commit a crime? In what ways does the PD impact the crime, compared to someone without a PD who commit a similar offense? Is it the lack of insight into potentially harmful behaviors by the individual and the system, which makes them unable to understand how improper this is and their responsibility in it all, which then allows this to continue? And maybe it would have been prevented if e.g the education was good enough so that the PD wouldn’t be expressed in this way in this context environment (I guess that it could help set up clearer internal boundaries for this context, and it would be a better understanding of how vulnerable this population is which could help overpower justification for their behaviors etc)? Or am I reading this all wrong? I hope you understand my question 😅. My brain is very tired and I’m struggling to get my point across. But just know that I’m asking this as a layperson who at least are on the board with the way Andrea resonates (I think).
My short takeaway is that in a better system, there would be more personal oversight and in depth exploration of the individual as a professional, which would better unearth and redirect potentially problematic dynamics that might lend themselves to abusing power. I think her argument is that, as things are, people are becoming professionals at a very vulnerable, stressed time in their lives combined with the potential financial burden of student loans that makes it more likely for them to prioritize cutting corners or making unethical decisions in favor of just having the paycheck
Thank you Andrea for your thoughts! What do you all think of her explanation?
She is awful- she my many comments below
Fantastic interview! Thank you to Andrea for sharing her insight and lived experience. I appreciate her compassionate, incisive and perceptive point of view.
I'm glad that she reached out to share her experience! Thanks for watching
Disgusting this woman ONLY got 4 years. She should never get out of jail. Paedos never change, and she threatened to kill someone.
Four years did seem really light to me
Her husband gotta be embarrassed he has a child with her .
Why Did Payton Shires Sleep With a 13 Year Old Client?
It's an interesting topic, it's a shame it wasn't discussed.
Andrea was putting the concern and blame on OSU and the group Shire worked for. She seems to blame the training and/or lack of such.
I don’t think they should let people with diagnosed mental illness be social workers.
I’ve somehow ended up with 3 friends who are social workers. They’re all really different and work in different areas with different client bases. It’s a misunderstood area and my perception is that it’s turned into a problem dumping ground for the “too hard” client that needs help, but those making the referrals don’t always understand that complex problems don’t have a quick fix. Certainly is a job I would completely suck at.
@@thatsaniceboulder1483 it's a tough job for sure. Glad for those who do it and do it well
I’ve been a social worker for 30 years, and this narcissistic rant has nothing to do with social work but everything to prove she needs therapy because her BOD and her narcissistic comments- eg she was too good for core social work when she hadn’t even graduated ( so zero experience), and she considers herself superior to clients which is actually against the social work code of ethics. Somebody should take her license away. She is dangerous, especially with vulnerable people- it’s so obvious
Just an observation that Andrea’s intolerance and judgement of her courses, lecturers, institutions, while ostensibly valid, indicates a surprising rigidity of thinking that may not indicate a personality profile conducive to long term social work. If she’s gonna get pissy and leave because of her dissonance and judgement that they aren’t teaching what she thinks they should be shows a fundamental weakness that will probably burn her out in social work. When she walks away from and is that intolerant of something she expects to be a certain way, could be a problem she probably needs mentoring around. Cause the institutions she’s going to be working for, the people she will work with, and the clients she will have, will be sooo much worse. Kinda surprised she’s in her 30’s and after all the study she’s done, she’s not hearing herself. This comes from my understanding that uni’s just want money, that lecturers often suck, that what we learn at uni is merely the tippy tippy top of the iceberg of knowledge required for our professions and will barely give the fundamentals, and Andrea wants perfection in her course, her lecturers and for them to agree with her thinking and viewpoint and experience. I wonder what she’ll be like if she has a client she spends hours upon hours organising services for, listens to, supports, believes… and then the clients goes and trash’s everything and screams that she didn’t help at all. Andrea, I wish you well, you’ve chosen an extremely difficult, undervalued, under funded frontline profession.
Agreed on how tough the job is. I guess it makes sense if you have the resources as a student to be choosy; I wouldn't necessarily infer that she's the same way with clients or other situations
@@Therapy2Day true. ‘‘Twas a possibly unfair extrapolation and tis why I utterly have no aptitude for either therapy or social work. Thank goodness you do! ☺️
@@thatsaniceboulder1483 I mean, I can see why you would think that. I just try to believe the best in people until they prove me wrong
@@thatsaniceboulder1483 Yeah, I was also thinking this as well. I was also thinking that her tendency to trash talk universities and agencies so openly is not going to bode well for her professionally. My fear is that her lack of fear around doing so will result in agencies not wanting to hire her and colleagues not wanting to work with her.
@@Therapy2Day this is why I listen to you Isiah. I know I make judgments and am practicing asking “why”, and looking to incorporate being more patient. You’re excellent at modelling that. Keep doing it. When you demonstrate and vocalise your thinking and analysis it makes me analyse myself and compare where I can do better. I want to know what questions are going through your head, what information you’re looking for. How do you assess a patient’s engagement. I want to learn better how to prioritise when to call bullshit and when to sit back and let things lie. Your analysis of the estranged mother was interesting because it demonstrated your restraint whereas my ass was judging so hard😄. I like being called out when I’m judgy because it makes me think and understand myself more. I give permission to ask “boulder, how high up are your judgy pants?” Merch idea😄
A lot of these comments seem to be from people who were expecting like a criminal minds episode or one of those “body language expert” analyses. There’s a lot of arm chair psychologizing going on in the replies that seems to be informed by those types of shows and videos. But criminal profiling and body language analysis are very pseudoscience-y, and I think it would have been inappropriate for Andrea to try and actually psychoanalyze a woman she’s never met. That would have been very trashy true crime sensationalism of her. She treaded carefully in that respect, and she’s simply giving her perspective as a social worker with a background in sociology who went to the same school as Payton Shires. She’s answering the questions asked of her and staying within her area of expertise/experience, giving her perspective.
I’d also guess that a lot of the commenters accusing her of being sanctimonious are a little bit triggered by the political implications of terms like “culture of abuse” and “systemic issues” and stuff like that.
It did bother me when it seemed as though Andrea might be denying the accountability of a child rapist, but i don’t know if it’s because I disagree with her or because I’m just too disgusted by Shire’s crimes to take on that type of systemic analysis. Maybe I’m also a little wary of the potential to downplay male victimhood, especially in cases of sexual abuse and especially when the perpetrator is a woman. Maybe I would have preferred if Andrea’s critique had been framed in a different way, maybe without the Payton Shire framing. Idk.
But I definitely agree with her on a lot of things, especially the need to gatekeep, the need for mental health care for mental health care workers, the burnout involved in social work, and the fact that a lot of mental disorders are still stigmatized in psychology courses/training. I think I learned more about schizophrenia, borderline, and dissociative identity disorder from people with those diagnoses just posting their own personal experiences on youtube than i did in my abnormal psych class. In my experience in undergrad psych, a lot of mental disorders were discussed in a kind of stigmatizing way, especially dissociative identity disorder.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment in response to this interview.
I am not a forensic psychologist, and even if I was, it would be unethical to offer anything beyond general speculation about the case without thorough assessment of the harm doer. I am with you on the true crime and body language “expert” content, which is troubling to me for many reasons you mention.
I am trained from a base of sociology, conduct systemic social science research, and have worked clinically as a therapist, primarily with marginalized folks who have complex trauma and/or personality disorders. I am also trained in organization/group/community analysis and intervention. So you are correct in noting that is what informs my scope and therefore how I interpret and discuss things.
I also want to respond to the concerns about dismissing harm and abuse. I believe in transformative justice over retributive justice. I understand that this comes off as dismissive in some instances. I am careful with my language around those who cause harm and the harms done, because in a retributive model of justice, people are often individually targeted and punished for systemic failures and thus are not offered systemic solutions. I believe that most (not all) people who cause harm do not revel in harms they cause, and if given proper support, can be held accountable in community and reintegrate into community safely with decreased or very low potential to repeat harms. I believe our language, beliefs, and extant systems around “justice” are inhumane and fundamentally do not serve anyone, nor do they protect those who have been harmed. In transformative justice models of accountability, there are separate conversations that are had to accommodate the person/s harmed and those who have caused harm, which are held in broader dialogue in a group that facilitates accountability, mediating between the harmed/harm doer. It is a lengthy process and requires a lot of willingness from all involved to confront the complex reality of harm, but it is intended to be more holistic, systemic, and effective than dehumanizing, scapegoating, and ostracizing those who have been harmed. I also think it is helpful for many who have been harmed.
Personally, I have found much greater peace in my own experiences of being handled transformatively rather than retrubutively. It aligns more with my values, and helps me move out of the kind of “survival mode” to know that someone who has caused me harm knows the impact of the harm done to me and has the insight and support to repair and change so that we could both heal.
I wish we had better systems to support those who have been harmed and more humane approaches to confronting harm doers and the harmful systems/cultural norms that enable harm and the dismissal of it.
I hope this was helpful or clarifying in some way. I am always happy to share resources on transformative justice if folks are interested.
Again, I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your comment and your feedback/voicing your concerns.
-Andrea
Not sure how we are thinking Payton had BPD? I must’ve missed something.
That was the first I had heard of it too, but I only watch true crime for the purpose of this channel. It's possible someone else had floated the idea without me knowing
How did this person only get 4 years?
I agree
@@Randomlycreatedbyme good question. If you watch the sentencing video, the judge says because it is her first offense, but still....
@@Therapy2Dayit does seem a strange reason given the charges and evidence and amount of violence included in the crime. I am sort of hoping that something behind the scenes that we don't know has been going on
@@rsh793 idk if that'd be better or worse 😂
Unfortunately predators do the devils work all of them pretty much have the same unspoken reasons especially when they keep videos & pics
Hi Isaiah, Andrea said that we are a "culture of abuse." What does this mean?? Do you and the other viewers agree with this?? It is very interesting statement.
@@robertzee4799 I took it to mean that abuse (improper use of power) is baked into our culture, and that it is not just solely an individual saying "I want to abuse my position". I can follow up with her to ask for clarification, though!
Hi it’s me Andrea.
What I mean by a culture of abuse is that we live in a society in which certain groups of people have power over other groups of people- e.g., men over women, adults over children, wealthy over non-wealthy, etc. Power differentials lend themselves to abuse as abuse is defined as power over another through the use of coercive control. This is based in the theory of a culture of violence. A prominent example of a culture of violence is rape culture, or a culture in which sexual violence is normalized on smaller social system levels, media, and policy. One example of this is spousal rape being legal prior to the 1970s, which primarily affected and disadvantaged women who were more or less viewed as property (objectification) of their husbands after marriage. The legal nature of spousal rape reflected other cultural and social norms about women and their rights to bodily autonomy while also offering no legal recourse to women in sexually (and often otherwise) abusive partnerships, which would also affect children through exposure to violence and thus perpetuated the cycle of violence intergenerationally. This is just one example, but it can also be seen in things like use of physical abuse or corporal punishment of children, which used to be highly normalized and is now largely considered as harmful and likely to lead to similarly troubling patterns of intergenerational transmission of mental health issues, negative parenting strategies, and trauma. I would argue that the outrage folks feel about Payton being given a light sentence is part of this as well. We don’t take sexual violence perpetration as seriously as we should and people are often not brought to justice as a result. It is very common and unlikely to be remedied through the prison system alone. Prisons rely on punishment and do not often provide services necessary to adequately address psychological issues and social learnings within a culture of violence and abuse to transform folks who cause harm and prevent further harm. They can often make it worse because they participate in the culture of abuse and violence through punishment and isolation of folks who cause harm, which extends beyond the sentence in many ways. I am of the mind that we should consider the ways in which our systems and culture maintain or enable a culture of violence and abuse in order to change our approach and prevent harms like this from happening because as I mentioned in the video, I think we’re very quick to focus on the harm doer and their psychology to explain what has transpired, while overlooking how systems fail to prevent harm, and in many cases had failed the person who caused harm initially (as they are often abuse survivors) which led to their harm of another. Relying on punishment, prisons, and sex offender registries alone has not been effective and will not suffice in disrupting these patterns over time.
I hope that was helpful and let me know if you have additional questions!
@@andyk6192 thanks for the response, and for the interview!
@@Therapy2Day Thanks, Isaiah. Maybe because our culture can be so competitive. Clarification would be nice. Like Andrea, I thought something was remiss in Shires' training, too: she got in trouble so soon. Did OSU not discuss with her what to do in such difficult situations with clients?? She did not even try to hide it well. Any comments from anyone??
Andrea has no experience- don’t believe a word she says. My gosh, Isiah, who is your next interview? Jodi Hildebrandt? Andrea is in the same level of narcissistic abuse given she has no skills and ability and already thinks she is superior- seriously WTF
In a therapeutic sense, I have no clue how they would even begin to address pedophilia. I watch a **lot** of Law and Crime network (embarrassing I know lol) but there seems to have been a surge of woman pedos lately.
Agreed. It's kind of alarming how many of those videos (and that's just what is publicly available) there are. It's dangerous too because that situation doesn't fit our normal stereotype of a predator
@@Therapy2Day Exactly, I think it helps people see that predation can (and does) exist in many different spaces. Emotional immaturity or arrested development really should be addressed more if this is the ongoing result of it.
I think one way of understanding what Andrea is saying is that people with personality disorders aren’t criminals.
(I guess that Andrea also is trying to say that this goes for other groups of people as well, but PD is used as an example here because it’s what people have theorized being Shiers diagnosis and/or potentially the cause of some of her decision makings?).
I’m struggling with the next part, which would answer the question of why someone with this type of condition commit crimes. How is it linked to the crime? How is the potential PD linked with all of this (more than the stigmatization which leads to issues such as not getting treatment, identifying potentially maladaptive patterns etc)?
Andrea goes over issues with the system, the population, the education etc. Those issues would indicate that people who want to commit crimes will commit crimes because of the opportunity for doing so (and also the lack of protective mechanisms, such as education and supervision).
Is this a ‘the opportunity creates the criminals’ type of situation? How could a PD in this circumstance make some who otherwise wouldn’t commit a crime, commit a crime? In what ways does the PD impact the crime, compared to someone without a PD who commit a similar offense? Is it the lack of insight into potentially harmful behaviors by the individual and the system, which makes them unable to understand how improper this is and their responsibility in it all, which then allows this to continue? And maybe it would have been prevented if e.g the education was good enough so that the PD wouldn’t be expressed in this way in this context environment (I guess that it could help set up clearer internal boundaries for this context, and it would be a better understanding of how vulnerable this population is which could help overpower justification for their behaviors etc)?
Or am I reading this all wrong?
I hope you understand my question 😅. My brain is very tired and I’m struggling to get my point across. But just know that I’m asking this as a layperson who at least are on the board with the way Andrea resonates (I think).
My short takeaway is that in a better system, there would be more personal oversight and in depth exploration of the individual as a professional, which would better unearth and redirect potentially problematic dynamics that might lend themselves to abusing power.
I think her argument is that, as things are, people are becoming professionals at a very vulnerable, stressed time in their lives combined with the potential financial burden of student loans that makes it more likely for them to prioritize cutting corners or making unethical decisions in favor of just having the paycheck