Eglinton Crosstown LRT vs Streetcars
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- What are the differences between the Eglinton Crosstown LRT vehicles and the Toronto streetcar vehicles? After all, they look similar ... but they're not the same. You asked for a video about the differences, so here it is!
00:00 Introduction
00:44 What's an LRT, streetcar, or tram?
02:01 Bombardier Flexity family
03:11 Toronto streetcar tracks
04:15 Flexity Freedom LRT
05:10 Vehicle differences
06:34 Pantographs and Trolley Poles
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#Toronto #Transit #TheCrosstown #Line5
Earlier Crosstown LRT video - • Eglinton Crosstown LRT...
Spadina station video - • The Two Spadina Stations
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There's one more minor difference between the LRT and the streetcars: the streetcars carry passengers and the LRT does not.
BURN... Canadian Forest Summer Forest Fire Level Burn...
Savage.
And we're all here for it
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Ouch. But accurate.
good one
Better info than we would get from metrolinks,and with a fraction of a fraction of their budget!!!!!!!
Love this guy. Reminds me of Geography Kang, insofar as he's an admitted nerd. Makes the channel way better.
Well, with every birthday it becomes less likely that I (or anyone else currently living) will ever ride the Eglinton Crosstown. Too bad.
I'm a 2 minutes walk from Forest Hill Station. If Metrolinx had been responsible for Toronto's early subway development, we'd still be waiting for the Yonge line to open.
I agree and am glad since I will use the Finch line and do not need the Eglington line.
Keep it up! These videos are very informative and interesting 🙏
I keep waiting for those magical links.
in the description
@@bennazarro6826 Suppose to be two spots.
Man i love ur videos. Your personality and aesthetic work real well. Keep it up. Love learning more about this city. Would love to know more about new neighborhoods and developments happening in the city, like east harbour or science center area.
If you come to Waterloo Region, you can ride the first FLEXITY Freedom, already since 2019. We were the launch customer. They are built like tanks and been extremely reliable.
We have had very few outages due to issues with the system....most outages are caused by idiots driving into the LRT.
way too bulky shake tremebdously doesnt feel at all like your in a comfortable place.. oh and every tine they open a door takes hours for then to close.. everytine someone else comes up to it.. missses several streetlights to red as a result... just done to save money less drivers longer vehicle
@@justindot4887 Not sure what city you’re talking about. The Flexity Freedom LRV’s in Waterloo are smooth and breeze through every streetlight on urban sections with full signal priority. Have a great day!
Idk if anything has changed since it was made operational but in videos I saw of the Waterloo ION, that thing was so incredibly slow someone in a mobility scooter was outpacing it. Some aspects of the track design were also questionable like tight curves and being too close to the road in some places.
Perhaps it is a step in the right direction for Canada but I feel we can do a lot better than that example.
Great video. And an upcoming video on Toronto gauge - yes please!
You have to think early 20th century Toronto when industry was huge downtown. Main rail yards, tracks and lines were everywhere. Public fears were that freight would now move past their homes. Council allayed those fears by having slightly wider gauge. It comes at a cost today with no interoperability between modes
Love this video, thank you! I was always wondering what’s the difference :)
My guy, you are quite intelligent, and you have offered me and your other viewersu detailed information not seen or heard in quite a while.
Good to know Edmonton wasn't the only city to have... ahem... "issues" with its new low-floor light rail systems... The Edmonton Valley line is/was plagued with design and construction defects which significantly delayed its opening by years as well... However now that it's working it seems to be finally a nearly flawless system...
LETS GO OILERS 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦
Don't forget the Ottawa LRT!! That's one of the reasons it's taking so long, they're trying to avoid another Ottawa fiasco.
Unrelated to the vehicles. Flexity Freedom is a solid, reliable LRV. Edmonton’s issues were surrounding the infrastructure
@@pex3 Ottawa’s Alstom Citadis vehicles are a disaster. The wheels keep falling off, it keeps derailing, and so on. They’re trash.
@@IainHendry never should have sold bombardier to the french !
One of the interesting moments during the City Council debate on a Sheppard East LRT vs. subway extension over a decade ago was when then city councilor Raymond Cho asked then fellow council member Doug Ford "Why [do] you keep calling [them] 'streetcar'? You have an English language problem like me?" which elicited laughs from the entire chamber including Mr. Ford who responded "That was a good one councilor, But If I had said that I would've been called racist" and the chamber groaned in response. Funnily enough Ford ended up being the campaign manager for Raymond Cho's successful by-election run for the Ontario PC's and appointed him to his cabinet when he became Premier of Ontario lol
They really should extend the Sheppard line between the Yonge line and the University line !
Can sb please explain the joke? 😢 I don’t understand
@@bababaghanoush So Raymond Cho is originally from Korea and though he's in his 80s and lived the vast majority of his life in Canada, he still has a Korean accent (though I bet like Olivia Chow, it sounds much weaker in person than through audio/visual lol).
Verbatim (at least to my recollection) he said towards Doug Ford (who said that LRTs were just streetcars): "Why you keep calling 'streetcar?' You have English language problem like me?"
Cho was obviously poking fun at himself and being someone for whom English is a second language (so it was classic self-deprecation). And as I mentioned earlier, Ford would go on to run Cho's provincial campaign and then appoint him to his cabinet when he became premier.
Cho and Ford are good friends it was just a joke @@kiroolioneaver8532
Cho is perhaps the most useless politician ever.
Interesting. Thanks. You have a similar voice to the late Ray Nielson who produced those “PCCs on Parade” videos way back. Everyone used to say I was a streetcar geek back then. I still am but less so.
Very well made video. Thank you.
Would love to see more videos on trams, whether they be in the GTA, Canada or beyond.
Perhaps a video explaining how Toronto’s streetcar & Vancouver’s proposed streetcar use/would use longer LRVs than the US’s streetcars & LRTs.
Had a business trip to San Francisco a few years ago, and had the opportunity to ride one of the old Red-Rocket TTC streetcars. (San-Francisco embrasses it's tram legacy by purchasing streetcars from all over the world, preserving their original colours and city markings/logos). It was a unique experience to ride through a foreign city on a streetcar that still read, "This vehicle is financially supported by the Province of Ontario" (while decidedly less rare than riding a subway, streetcar or LRT across Eglinton Ave).
fantastically informative. highly appreciated good sir
A very interesting video material !!!!
Thank U very much 4 posting on U-tube !!!!
Unless you’re in Ottawa where the nomenclature doesn’t apply. They run streetcars as if it were a subway
The Eglinton LRT should have been a fully grade separated subway instead of having the eastern portion run down the middle of the street. This will slow down travel times and could potentially cause disruptions if the intersection is blocked.
Gotta asume they dont mind this at all. With all the other ways traffic is slowed down on purpose, might just be part of the plan.
Tidbit about your segment on the Spadina streetcar. When it was proposed and approved, it was actually called the Spadina Light Rail project. But the naming made some people scared that it was some sort of heavier rail that would disfigure the neighborhood. So the naming was switched to Spadina streetcar to make it seem more familar.
You’re right! Nuance is crucial for buy in
yes!!! so happy someone commented this!
Worked as a contractor for Bombardier for a while doing modifications on those trains.
Pretty cool stuff, you'd be surprised how many PLCs are inside the coves.
i moved from kw region to toronto for school just before the ion lrt opened, granted i was a cambridge resident and drove so i never had a reason to get on the lrt anyways if i was still there. now ive been living around eglinton west stn for most of that time and just itchy to get on this thing, like most lol. i noticed how they trains looked very similar to each other before, so that was nice for me to have that little connection of where i was born to where i am currently living
While the technology is inherently the same, the method in which it is used is what allows one to distinguish between services i.e. stop spacing allows one service to be significantly faster than another. In some European cities, trams are used as regional trains which results in a completely different type of service.
Great video - Didn't know that Toronto's gauge is different.. This must greatly restrict and complicate any purchasing of new cars. It should have been moved to a standard gauge over time..
Great vid!
I use to take the street car to school when I was a kid in the late 80s.
Toronto has a unique rail gauge? I MUST KNOW MORE!!!
It was built for a different gauge so that freight trains couldn't use the track.
@@trainglen22 That's fantastically petty, in a way. "These tracks are for people-moving only, and YOU LITERALLY CAN'T MOVE FREIGHT!" XD
@@GregMcNeish back in the early 20th century, Toronto had more industrial areas than it does now. It was a way to stop freight trains (shunters) from using the TTC streetcar tracks by using a wider guage track.
We use 1495mm instead of 1435mm
@@OntarioTrafficManthis fact also surprised me, and I want to know more.
They finally got the Eglinton line up and running after 1000 years of construction? Never thought I'd see the day.
They've been running for a while, but the infrastructure isn't done yet, nor do the lines seem to be ready to handle passengers. It sucks to know that trains have been running for at least 3 years without passengers.
@@matthewbugeya1401 So STILL ain't done. Welp. Another 1000 years then. I'll be dead by then.
Mafia level corruption. Only union / government work could be this slow / delayed. We have not entered the phase of public testing yet where all kinds of problems ( additional costs ) will be uncovered.
I dont meant to hate on the technology, just how its implemented by our people.
Anyone remember the rubber-wheeled electric busses that used trolley poles (and required the driver to not steer out from underneath the wires). I also have vague recollections of a wood stick mounted on the back of the... bus..?... - the driver would hop out and use said stick to whack the pole back into place should it de-cable.
Trolleybuses. They still use them out in Vancouver. And the Russians and Eastern Eastern countries had a thing for them.
I remember the spider web maze of overhead power wires and support wires. Those busses needed 2 separate overhead wires as they did not have a rail as a ground return. When the line needed to turn a corner it was an overhead work of art.
I am nerdy. I also love this channel. Coincidence? lol
Yup. I’m here for the trains 🙋🏻♂️🤓
I really enjoy your videos
I believe another difference is that unlike streetcars, the Line 5/6 LRV's will not have Presto readers on board. Instead, for surface stops, riders would need to pay/validate their fare on the platform before boarding.
This is not unlike the Viva buses in York region, with dedicated bus lanes in the center of Yonge street, highway 7, and a couple other streets. All these platforms have presto card readers, and the buses themselves do not have readers onboard
It's a good idea. If you board in the middle of a car during rush hour, you don't have to struggle through the crowd to tap at an on-board card reader.
Completely unrelated (and by the way, great content and information thank you!)... I'd suggest maybe watching a few videos or asking a consultant on presentation skills to work with getting your content even wider acceptance. As a former professional trainer, educator & speaker I can see you've got the first pre-requisite of any presenter (knowledgeable content) and I'd love to see it gain more attention (as a transit enthusiast myself)...
Im beginning to wonder whether these new cars are wearing the tracks faster than the old streetcars did. Even in your pictures, it shows they are using grease to lubricate the rails where in the past, they used water. That Cherry/King st intersection has been replaced multiple times in the past few decades which leads me to wonder.
Possibly the tracks themselves may be made of an inferior metal than what was used in the past?
Probably poor grade concrete or that recycled asphalt the city was using, crumbling prematurely around the track, compromising it’s longevity.
I heard that the new streetcars are heavier then the old ones. Also solid axles that do not turn where the older streetcars have flexible axles that moved during turning. Ever noticed that only ONE streetcar can pass through a major track diamond at a time while the other one waits ? This is to reduce weight stress on the tracks. Instead of increasing quality of the track diamond or purchasing the appropriate model streetcar, we ( the riders ) instead just get to be delayed endlessly with slowed operation or flat out stationary waiting. :) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Incompetence / corruption at the purchasing department, these new streetcars are not good enough and were purchased anyway.
The other major benefit of pantographs is they dont get dislodged as so often happened with the trolly polls each time the streetcar turned a corner...
I grew up in Toronto but moved away just before the pandemic. I appreciate these videos as a nice touch to kind of stay connected! Can you do a video on exploring the history of the TTC door closing chimes? I recall them for my entire life, I'm not sure if they were only used on the subways initially. I think this would be a fun topic to explore, thanks so much!
Ya spooked me, Buster
Great video! Question - do you know how the Crosstown LRT was designed to cross the Line 1 Subway at Yonge and Eglinton?
The LRT line passes below the subway line. This is actually one of the things that has been delaying it - during excavation for the LRT, they discovered some problems with the 70-ish year old subway station.
Im tempted to google the facts about the rail width for Toronto and why ..but I'll stick around and wait for your video on why Toronto rails are not standard.
& That figures .. This city seems to be uniquely messed up in many ways.. lol
Lovely video, thank you
I learned something
I love the late 90s to 2000s and current TTC buses and trains and streetcars
I'm surprised you didn't note that the Harbourfront and Spadina projects were literally called LRTs in the 1990s, the Harbourfront was numbered the 604 and called the Harbourfront LRT the plaque is still at the boarding platform at Union Station. It makes the Line 6 Finch West LRT comparison even more apt.
Hi Steve (of debatable smoothness),
wondering what song you use in your intro and outros? Good videos, keep it up
I ran out of creativity when naming that song, so its title is Happy Video Tune :-)
@@notsmoothstevehaha! I cannot identify it using software. Did you make this song yourself or is it stock? I really find it catchy.
@@swedishhousemfia it's my own work!
Great video! Learned a lot in 9 mins about the LRT technologies, especially the Pantographs! Thanks and msg us we should collab soon!
TTC cars have 3 powered trucks because of the steep hills. Eglinton LRTs only have outer truck powered. TTC cars can run on 750 volts and the St. Clair car was supposed to enter service along the Jane LRT rout before theeProvince and Metrostinx took over the LRT lines. Both vehicles have horns.
What did you think about the recent streetcar derailment on King Street yesterday? What is your opinion on why that could or happened?
The news reports I've seen have been very thin on details. I believe the driver of the road vehicle has been charged with something like dangerous driving, so they probably did something stupid that caused the crash. But perhaps more info will come out in the next little while ... or maybe it will just fade from the news and we'll never hear of it again.
A distracted driver in a mini van or something t-boned the streetcar near the drivers cab and it derailed.
Ah@@notsmoothsteve
@@mxhe9457frig ah
Why did the streetcar derail when a speeding van T-boned it? Because that's how momentum works.
Thank you Steve! I love the work you did. 👏🏽 best of luck.
The 4th smoothest Steve that I know
Can you please make a video on why the city, Scarborough specifically, needs an LRT, Eglinton Crosstown LRT East
Nice video of Light Rail Transit and Streetcar (Trams) Need make other video of Bus Rapids Transit vs Bus Lane usually Trolleybuses or Electric Bus and Articulated Bus and Bi Articulated and Single drive bus and Double deck bus like London.
Looking forward to the TTC track gauge video if you ever do one, from what I understand the reason was pretty short sighted imo
This and other public transportation projects fully demonstrate the necessity of experience, knowledge, and, most importantly, management skills to bring such initiatives into service on time and within budget. The company's inability to provide an update on the project's timeline and cost overruns raises questions about its fundamental business acumen.
That’s what you get for always choosing the lowest bid. A project that will face massive cost and timeline overruns
Once the Eglinton West extension is up and running, it'll be one weird mostly underground streetcar.
both phuck traffic beautifully but will the LRT run before the track needs to be replaced
This channel is awesome. Keep it up man
Another big difference for the Toronto systems is signaling. The streetcars are buses on tracks. Need to move a switch? driver gets off bus, uses some stick to move switch and then gets back into the tram. The "buses" are mixed in the traffic and the driver, like on a bus, advances based on what he sees and obeys car traffic lights. No traffic priority lights for the Toronto trams. (some cities have that)
The LRT has signalling system to ensure one train keeps its distance from the train ahead of it (and I beleive is ready for automated train operation on grade separated segments). Switches will be centrally commanded so driver doesn't need to get outside to opeate the switch.
So there is a bunch more electronics on the LRT that sit between the driver and the motors which prevent the driver from advancing unless the electronics say you can. (and the electronics also calculate where the vehicle needs to start to slow down to reach speed of 0 at the poimt where its authority to proceed ends, and anthority that is updated frequencly enough (hopefully) that the vehicle never gets to the poit where it needs to start to slow down). On modern systems, that authority is generally a few metres behind the tail of the train ahead of you.
Steve I love you
My old hood
a miracle of 'Mom & Pops'
Gone now
I do think the definitions of LRT versus streetcar/tram should be refined. LRT sounds a lot cooler than streetcar and is usually sold as being cheaper than a subway. However, projects like the Eglinton LRT prove that wrong.
These cars highlight what I think is a problem with Toronto transit - the variety of rail vehicles. Before the closure of the Scarborough LRT in March, Toronto had five types of rail vehicles running on two different gauges. Compare that to Chicago, which only has one type and it goes everywhere, including both airports.
I think it would have been better for the LRT to use TTC gauge and vehicles compatible with the streetcar system. It would allow the city to produce a more integrated system.
I'd like to know why the spadina line tracks were upgraded and then removed and re-installed. I thought this was a big waste of money? Or maybe my memory is wrong?
UR MY GOAT
Neat doors both sides
Is this in operation and is this under presto(ttc miway zoom etc) or some other organization and seperatepayment
It still doesn't have an opening date. It's going to be operated as part of the TTC system, so your TTC fare covers it.
You should make a video on the idiocy of Metro links and why they haven't finished yet.
Currently wathing this from inside a FLEXITY Freedom. What are the chances! Lol
I didn't realize that the Eglinton LRT was going to have separate cars attached to one another and completely severed off. That could be annoying for passengers instead of being able to walk through the entire train like the current streetcars.
Another common difference is the floor level and platform stations. Streetcars usually don't have them, LRTs do.
Remember when they were worried that the vehicles wouldn’t make it in time. Oh those were the days.
That was because Metrolinks was going off the old timeline. When they wanted them delivered they had no where to actually have them delivered to
leaving an offering for the algo-deities as well.
i think the reason i dont call the spadina streetcar an LRT is because of how many intersections it gets stuck at, it needs better priority at intersections
I did not know there was a Toronto gauge. Thanks! Beware Alstom, they are the Ottawa LRT people! Disaster!
Also the Avelia Liberty fiasco across the border
Waterloo regional has light rail
Should've named the channel "NotTomScott"
15 billion project, amazing. 😊
Ask how they will bring the LRT cars to the maintenance facility !
How many people per hour is the Eglinton Crosstown designed to carry?
Apparently its maximum capacity is about 15k people per hour in each direction.
@@notsmoothsteve interesting.... Seems a very poor choice ..
In consideration of 16 years construction, more years of design and vast lost opportunity.....
Really poor design choices at inception. Seems the municipal decision makers lost the plot in what the real policy objectives were.
@@notsmoothsteve Can the Yonge/Eglinton south bound subway line handle 15K-30K passengers/hour trying to board southbound @ Yonge in rush hour?
@@davesaunders7080 that's too big a topic for a short answer. 15k/hr is the maximum capacity; it's projected to be much lower. And with automatic train control on line 1, they could run trains much closer together if the budget allowed, increasing subway capacity quite a bit. But then again, when the northern extension of the Yonge line opens, that's going to bring more passengers, too. So it's complicated, isn't it?
13 years and waiting..... The Roman Colosseum was built in 10 years.! I rest my case .
Why are the tracks rusted?
The new LRTs could not run air conditioning unless a pantograph was used for power pickup.
Hopefully they are faster than the 510 Spadina streetcar. For some reason the 510 is very slow even though its in its own dedicated private lanes.
wow Eglinton Line! It is still a thing?? I mean it has not died yet?
LRT, what a chit idea, for the city gets snow 6 months of the year, build more tunnels, like a normal city!, oupps I forgot Torononto has a flooding problem
I think the L stands for Lost, because they can't seem to find a way to get it running.
But the Scarborough LRT actually had passengers inside. When does the Eglinton LRT take passengers.
The difference is , other countries are way ahead of us in infrastructure
You said the difference is not black and white. The LRT actually is black and white
When a rail project hooked up with Metrolinx, you will find them delay the project as long as they want and never see any progress.
Long story short, LRT - is a new stage of streetcar evolution.
Streetcars have been intentionally devolving ( sabotage / incompetence ) in tornoto so this sounds great !!11!!! ( -_- ).
never mind the differences, how about is it scheduled to open by 2028????? ;-)
I'm Torontonian and I forgot how annoying the three tone sound is. lol
Thanks for all your high quality content.
No wonder everything costs so much!
And trains , cant forget about the trains
I like LRT with independent lane system, but I think they are slow and they could move more people during rush hour if they also use buses . When the LRT at the front is full, stopping at every stop, the LRT behind it can't pass the front LRT, but a bus can pass, and efficiently move people quickly during rush hour.
LRT always stops at every stop. The basic principle is that the vehicles shouldn't get bunched in the first place. Late vehicles should get absolute priority to let them catch up to schedule
Sure, it can pass, but buses can't move nearly as many people vs. an LRT. An LRT can move 250 people at once while a bus maxes out at 55, so you're going to need 5 buses to replace one LRT. Anybody taking a high volume bus route during rush hour may have to wait for the next bus or two, and it's stopping at every stop when it's that full. That's happened to me on the Don Mills and Finch during rush hour.
@kutter_ttl6786 The LRT should be used, however during rush hour, they should have buses and LRT at the same time
@@OntarioTrafficMan The LRT are getting bunched up, so during rush hour they should have LRT and buses at the same time
LRT or LRV?
LRT is a type of transit system, so the Eglinton line is LRT (or an LRT _system_ ), not "an" LRT. The trains themselves are called Light Rail Vehicles.
the difference is that I'm paying taxes to support building those systems... and... for years they have not been running, It's a shame for the RLT system in Toronto.
Maybe you should interview me
Why arent they in use? The tracks are not up to code....
Torontonians still live in 1950. They still prefer to ride on streetcars. Streetcars = LRTs. Same old streetcars, slow and prone to breakdown all year. TTC still uses humans to change tracks using crowbars. TO needs to build more subways and privatize surface routes. Over $1B for TTC operation per year?