GALAXY GRUDGE MATCH 36.1 - Velma Dinkley VS Phoenix Wright
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024
- In the lands of Fontaine, a mystery lays. Two investigators from other worlds brought here to help bring the truth to light. But who truly does it better? Will Velma rip off the mask, or will Phoenix close the case? This question will be a mystery no longer
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EDITORS: Butter, GalacticAttorney
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I am now learning that Velma has a last name
Hope you're doing well.
If Velma gets to have Multiversus as evidence as to why she is able to fight, then Phoenix Wright gets to have MVC3 scaling to compensate, I'm just saying
Ok, but why is this video so well edited, I love it. As for the debate, while I love Velma and the Scooby Doo series as a whole, I actually have to say that I think Phoniex Wright will be able to come out on top.
Now, truth be told, most of my points, GA already mentioned, but one thing he didn’t that I think definitely should’ve been is his fighting ability. He actually has fought and even defeated characters in Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3, and we’re talking about characters like Mega Man, Iron Man, and even Glactus. Now I’m gonna assume you’re not gonna scale him to those, because… that’s kinda crazy, but it at least shows that he can fight, and while he might not be as experienced, and I do think Velma is still better overall, he can certainly hold his own against the creatures in Gensien, so he’s definitely not gonna die. Something something Jinkies.
I'll have to go with Wright for this:
Ya he has no combat experience but it's not like he's helpless, plus The Traveler would still save him to help solve the case and isn't heartless
Not to mention, this is a courtroom debate in another universe with its own laws. Velma the the Gang usually are shown working outside the law (breaking and entering mostly) or having unusual methods that wouldn't fly in a heavily strict area
Unlike Phoenix who works with the law and and actually more adaptable in odder setting than Velma. Yes, he'd be extremely confused but would be much more willing to go with the weirdness on the world than Velma who'd try to make sense of the illogical.
Velma has dealt with people with powers and monster but that's if she's gonna fight or interfere (which no, she wouldn't)
As for the prisoners, Velma mostly holds her tongue cause of her friends making sure she doesn't have an outburst, but Phoenix has to deal with people who will try to get under your skin and spout nonsense almost on a daily bases
Another thing is that Velma usually shows to solve the case after it's closed. She might have found clues during but they're almost never onscreen so it's hard to say. But Phoenix being a lawyer, he's very used to calling others out on things that even feel slightly off (hell, even the judge sometimes)
Also if you say that not being able to see who's lying would be usful as hell, than you got something else…. Plus, it being magic wouldn't be that out of place 'In A Freaking Magical World!'
Velma would put up a good debate but Phoenix's better amount of experience and but better at thinking on the fly would give him the needs to close this case!
By the way, Phenix’s Air Bending isn’t just in the Anime, Apollo is shown to have the same ability blowing away 4 heavily armed guards & a fully grown woman who was further away. (This happens at the end of Turnabout Revolution, the final case of Spirt of Justice.) On top of that Phenix does have much more experience with legal systems & court cases. He won several cases without any of his memories. On top of defending strange cases of a bizarre nature, such as, defending an orca, defending a time traveler (or someone who believes they could at least), dealing with ghosts, beating prosecutors like Von Karma destroying/stealing evidence, has cross-examined animals twice, and speaking up despite the Defence Coppability Act. Velma will have a hard time dealing with the fantastical elements. Phenix proved a man could fly in court, he is the fantastical. An experienced Lawyer like Phenix will be an asset no matter how you slice it, especially since he won’t be dealing with Prosecutors anywhere near smart enough to try and refute his points. Phenix Write is a guarantied help while Velma is just a conditional one.
GALAXY GRUDGE MATCH Vox machina vs The devil's luck pirates
YESEEESSSS
Yeah I could imagine the likes of Phoenix getting gacha'd.
Look, I'll be blunt. I don't either one to lose. I want them both to win, they awesome. But... Velma, I'm sorry kid, but this ain't it. As much as I agree with Butter on the combat notions... Genshin Impact outright has escort missions. Protecting the lawyer won't be a new thing for the cast. It's not as big a hindrance as perceived. In fact, her being capable of running away could waste as much time if it means they hafta search for her. Granted, she's no Shaggy nor Scooby, but she's a smart gal, she could hide well.
I think the biggest issue is... well, this is a novice with anti-people skills who can only get by the combat stuff faster against an experienced expert who is outright a people person and right with the crowd. As someone WELL versed in Scooby Doo, I can outright admit... Velma usually explains AFTER the mystery is solved. She's not a trap master, so she can only imply what she's seen from Fred; she's not personable, a lot more of an introvert; and she can overexplain. And those two latter points flat-wheel ANY momentum she might have.
Phoenix has outright been in shitty situations. GA explained the courts, but... there's numerous examples. I remember there was a court where, if he failed, he'd fucking die. And iirc (or maybe not been a while), it was layered AGAINST him. And yet, he still persevered. He's faced differing court cases, and such. Master manipulators setting up DECADES of trauma and guilt, people mastering with alibis, pets, outside sources, and even history. And even 'HE BRI'ISH! (derogatory)
Also, I hate to be that guy, but... BOTH can sleuth well. They can search for clues and just... yeah. Also, perjury and cross-witnessing shit like parrots MAY be a helpful bit. Velma's better for combat and clues, but Wright isn't a slouch in either, and in court, I just see him dunking Velma without resistance.
I think Phoenix has the Wright stuff while Velma's left saying Jinkies!
First of all, damn, the editing really got an upgrade. Second of all, while I love both of these characters, I've gotta side with my boy Phoenix. Any point I was going to make was already said by GA and the comments, so all I want to do is respond to a comment made by Narrow down here.
Firstly, he brings up how Velma fainting in Goblin King is unfair to hold against Velma since it's one moment in her long history and she's shown to believe in the supernatural elsewhere. While that's fair enough, it still doesn't change the fact that her actual track record against the supernatural is...not great. I mean, aside from that, there's her getting restrained by the voodoo dolls in Zombie Island and nearly having her life force drained, her being absolutely powerless against the samurai ghost in Samurai Sword, and the fact that the whole gang only beat the Evil Entity because of the power of friendship (what is this, MLP?) and by using a weapon specifically designed to kill it. It still doesn't change the fact that Butter was glossing over how Velma herself would likely also be a hindrance in combat. Sure, you could argue she'd be less of a hindrance than Phoenix, but she'd still be a hindrance that the party will have to protect.
He also brought up how Phoenix exposing Furina's secret with the Magatama right away would be bad because it would ruin her plan to save Fontaine, or something (I don't play Genshin Impact, so I'm just going off of what others are saying). To that, I would like to bring up that Phoenix usually doesn't use the Magatama in court. He mainly uses it outside of court to interview suspects and learn more information from them. I think what will most likely happen in this case is Phoenix uses the Magatama to find Furina out right away, Furina explains herself and why it's important she keep this secret for now, and Phoenix agrees to not share it with anyone until the time is right. So I don't think Phoenix inadvertently causing the destruction of Fontaine would be too big a worry.
Other than that, yeah, I think GA just had better arguments and was able to more effectively disprove Butter's claims (fitting, given who he's repping). I think both of them could solve the case (and i REALLY don't want this to end with the loser dying, please lord), but I think Phoenix is just overall the better pick for this case in particular. Sorry Velma, but there was only one Wright choice for who to solve this mystery. The winner is Phoenix Wright.
Didn’t expect this episode so soon
This is a very tough pick here, both of you did a great job defending your case. But at the end of the day, I'm gonna have to (over)rule with Phoenix Wright
To start a main issue lies in the battles each will have to face alongside the Traveler, and even if Fontaine has less encounters then the rest of Teyvat, it's still some. And both are not doing the best here, but Velma has shown on mutiple occasions to not be able to deal with threats without being prepared beforehand, and those glasses are gonna be a even bigger issue when it comes to her having to protect herself in a battle like that. Wright may have less experience in that regard (Outside of MVC3 but I'm not sure if that counts) but at least he doesn't go blind because he tripped while running away so Traveler can deal with the threat. Plus he can point his finger and blow the enemies away, which happens to work pretty well here, if he ever needs to fight back.
But moving on to the mystery solving esspect of this quest, Both Velma and Wright do pretty well here, mainly because almost anyone would do pretty well here. If The Traveler, someone who came to this world just trying to find their sibling is able to do all of this, I'm very sure a Lawyer and Investigator can. I don't see either really failing when it comes to gathering evidence. And I don't think Velma being sassy is going to slow down things, it won't help per say, but she's never bad enough to tarnish any leads (to my knowledge). But Wright has a small edge with the Magatama, even *if* it wouldn't hold up in court, it would greatly help in gathering evidence or at least some leads to find said evidence. And remember how I said Velma shouldn't have any issues gathering evidence in this quest, well I lied. A detriment to Velma is her hard disbelief in magic or the supernatural, which if it can make her faint when she can't find a grounded reason for something, going into a world that is based around magic won't help, and she's very prosistent on proving others of how things that are magical are fake, so she will be a pain for The Traevler and the Chao Knockoff to work with. Phoenix's best friend is a spirt medium, so at least he would be more ready for this, and would have a easier time getting use to the world.
Then there's the court case, which to the surprise of someone who doesn't know who Phoenix Wright is and thinks he's a furry oc, but to no one else, he's doing the best here. He's had no trouble before learning brand new law and being in brand new universes, and Fontaine being based around Law would be easier to get info for. If Traveler could do it, so could Wright. And I would say the same for Velma, but to a lesser extent.
Overall, Wright just seems to have a better shot at solving this case quicker. (Not like either could fail said case, Unless they outright make the quest harder then without them, which I don't see happening) He's the 5 star bar exam attorney to slam this case that you should summon, since it's more likely of Wright getting into Genshin then Eula getting a re-run.
Also Furina is based, nothing to do with the debate, I just was happy to see her be a important part of this episode, I like Furina.
Galaxy Grudge Match Idea
Timmy, Craig (of the Creek), Moon Girl Lunella, Gumball Watterson and (insert 5th character here) are all running for Class President. Who has the skills, charisma and diplomacy to come out on top?
MULTIVERSE MATCH: I.M.P & Stolas VS Boys (Helluva Boss VS The Boys) [Blitzo Moxxie Millie Loona & Stolas VS Billy Butcher Mother’s Milk Hughie Campbell Kimiko Miyashiro & Frenchie]
As much as I grew up watching Scooby Doo from Where are you? to Mystery incorporated as well as some movies both live action and animated movies, My money's on Phoenix.
A murder case, where there are things around that defy logic, is already a normal thing for Phoenix Wright, I mean, come on, he has dealt with this kind of thing since the second case of the first game. Velma, did not believe Sam Winchester in the Scooby Doo supernatural crossover when he told her the things that he and the rest of the supernatural characters that appear in said crossover have to deal with. And when they realized that the supernatural did exist, Velma like the rest of the gang had a mental breakdown. I simply see Phoenix as having a cold mind regarding the supernatural and would focus on what is important or take note of the explanation that someone with more knowledge gave him in order to have said explanation to his advantage in a trial. While Velma would either be in a state of denial and debate with someone like Paimon or she would faint.
Besides, we rarely see the Scooby Doo characters in a trial and from what I have seen both of what was said in the video, and from me personally investigating, yes, Velma, does not have the best streak compared to Phoenix and the The fact that her glasses were stolen without her realizing it does not tell us how she would deal in court.
Besides, Phoenix Wright and Professor Layton have dealt with quite tense cases. True, no "witch" truly died during both Phoenix and Layton's stay, yet they still had to deal with, for example, questioning more than one witness in the same room. Even Phoenix was clever when he had to defend a murderer (Matt Engarde), making it so that even if he came out guilty or innocent, he was already screwed, because a hitman knew that the accused took him for a fool as Matt set a camera in the room of the victim in case he got blackmailed. Which we don't see Velma pull stuff like that, at least not usually. Shaggy and Scooby are usually the ones doing such deception tricks, but they are usually simpler to make a fool of a pursuer, not in a setting like a trial for example.
Don't get me wrong, I believe both character would crack this case (And I don't want either of them dying), and Velma is the better figher (Though, personally, it doesn't look like its a mayor factor in this case) and finding clues, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. But I just can't see her getting to the bottom of this before Phoenix had already got the Not Guilty Verdict. Trials are simply Phoenix Wright's specialty.
It’s hard to pick beteeen both since I think both sides made strong arguments. But currently I’m gonna have to go with Velma.
I think it’s unfair to use Velma fainting over the supernatural as an argument to say she won’t adapt well to Teyvat, since that’s specific moment in her long history and there are just as many examples of Velma believing in the supernatural. That’s like saying Nick won’t do well and citing Death of Magnifi Gramarye (trial in Apollo Justice) as your example.
Though I think the biggest reason why Nick won’t succeed is through one of the advantages GA presented. Nick using the Magatama to immediately sus out Furina isn’t a good thing, since, according to Focalor herself, she was waiting for the Oratice to build enough power in order to give back to Neuvilette so that he can turn the people of Fontaine human and avoid disaster. Part of Focalor’s plan was to wait for Neuvilette to love the people of Fontaine as well, since Neuvilette 500 years ago wouldn’t agree to the plan. If the Magatama picks up that Furina is lying about her situation then Nick is just not going to let that go, he’ll immediately try and prove that Furina isn’t the Hydro Archon, especially if he’s going against Furina during Lyney’s trial. Since there are a few more trials between Lyney’s and Furina’s. And Neuvilette didn’t truly care about Fontainians until after (I wanna say) Navia made him cry. You can argue that speeding up the events of the story would be more beneficial to the Traveler, but that just means Fontaine would be flooded and all of the inhabitants are dead.
For this very specific reason is why I think Velma just barely edges out. Since’s she more likely to just follow the events of the story and let things play out. Sorry Wright debater, this time you chose wrong.
I'm gonna have to side with Phoenix on this one.
While I think both have areas they would do better than the other in, I believe Phoenix has the more useful ones.
First off, and most importantly, the Velma show sucks, so she automatically loses a point there.
Second, I believe that Phoneix would be MUCH more useful in court. While both most likely would not have time to study all the intricacies of the law of this new world, Phoneix has a much better base line to start with, as well as more useful items to actually use IN court.
Third, I firmly believe that Phoneix can defend himself better with the wind powers from the anime. I mean, he defeated Galactus in marvel vs capcom which is clearly canon, so he one shots all of the funny anime people
Finally, he'd be more accepting of the magical systems of the world, and would keep a more level head.
All in all, I think Phoneix takes this. Case dismissed!
OBJECTION! I'm Classic, and I gotta say the Ace Attorney has the victory in the bag for this one!
First off, I think the main factor in this debate that gives Phoenix the win is the fact that his flaws in this new world aren't as big as Butters will try to convince you they are. Phoenix Wright is VERY capable of defending himself, and the guy's been subjected to many harsh situations before. The dude has been shown to handle himself around the many varied fighters in the Marvel VS Capcom games, and has various attacks (although unorthodox) capable of damaging these fighters, including the Jolly Purple Planet Buster himself! I'm not saying Phoenix is on the same scale, hell no, but it shows Phoenix isn't helpless in a scenario like this. Plus, when the allies around him are perfectly capable of handling dangerous threats and escorts at the same time, Phoenix being a deer in headlights becomes more and more farfetched the more you think on it.
Sure, Velma Dinkley has taken on imposing threats of her own, but Velma is by no means a powerhouse, mainly thanks to her natural tendency to run away from danger if she hasn't got the upper hand. This could cause serious problems if Velma is in unfamiliar territory with situations she doesn't always encounter. Let's not forget Velma's main weakness... her glasses. Velma becomes an extreme liability if her glasses come off, and in a world where there's threats at many corners, her glasses WILL come off more than once. This can be incredibly bad if Velma loses her glasses somewhere, or lets them break due to another force, leaving her wide open, and the one being TRULY defenseless. Both her and Phoenix will always have the opportunity to have defense on their side, but Phoenix won't be as quickly put off by the dangers of Fontaine like Ms. Jinkies over here will. Mr. Wright also has a more inviting and optimistic personality than Velma's more often snarky and sarcastic nature. This'll lead Phoenix on the right path to greater hints of evidence with the higher ability to establish connections with helpful people.
Lastly, It's REALLY going to be a challenge for Velma to make it farther in court than Phoenix can, who has FAR more experience, knowledge, and practice when it comes to debating in court. On multiple occasions, he has faced practically impossible odds, but he has always managed to pull through, stacking up the evidence against his opponents and getting to the bottom of things, one way or another. Velma is just a meddling kid... with an admittedly great intuition at solving mysteries, yes, but Phoenix is a mystery solver, a calculated case cracker, and a strategic planner. Not to put Velma down at all, but in the debate scene, he's built for anything Velma can bring to the table, and more. And when you end up being a more valuable asset to have in a murder case when your highest chances of failure are negated, you have a greater shot at coming out the winner!
Both would eventually be able to do it, but after all's said and done, Velma won't be able to get it done nearly as effectively as this incredible attorney, ready to call this mystery, "case closed."
This is a pretty close matchup with good arguments on both sides, but I'll be going with Phoenix. Not only does he also have experience with solving mysterious when looking for evidence but he also has the far bigger advantage to the actual court case itself. Already having both of those advantages is going to give Phoenix a much better lead into solving this case with little trouble. He's got a strong mind and attitude, and can get on most peoples good sides with causing a ruckus.
Velma, asmuch as she has bigger strive and experience with mystery solving, a major part of how solves most of her cases came from the support of both her friends and technolgy. With the fact that she'll be pretty much be on her own in this new world where real magic and mosnters are roaming around the land, Velma's just gonna to much for her to really handle. Not only does she have to grasp and learn on the world of genshin impact works, without the support of her friends that normally help with getting closer to solving the mysterious, she just gonna have to do most sloving herself while she relys on the travler to protect all along the way. While you can say the same thing for Pheonix aswell, I think with his better expirence in solving cases usually solo and with his times surviving life threating events will help him in his favor.
If we really wanted to try to solve the whole protection issue, we could try to composite their abilites from fighting game apprences (Multiversus and MVC3) that would still leave with Phoenix throwing stacks of paper at enemys and Velma sassing her foes with speach bubbles. Yeah nothing to crazy but its something
Big fan of both so I have to put my two thoughts on this. And I am siding with Phoenix Wright...
Combat: Despite Velma’s “experience” in combat, it pales in comparison to Scooby Doo’s specific combat abilities. So even if she could fight, she’s not fighting on the level to be an actual assistant in combat. Especially after eight words: My Glasses. I can’t see without my Glasses. If she loses them or, most likely, they get destroyed, she’s more of a hindrance than Phoenix would be. And basically crippled in everything else. So their guardian will most likely be the one doing all the fighting and regardless of who they’re with, they have to be protected.
And if you are going to give her Multiverses, you should give Phoenix Wright Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom or Project X Zone 2. He had to face powerhouses from Marvel, Capcom, SNK and Sega. Take those away, and she doesn’t provide any physical help in this scenario.
Investigation: While Velma is a Mystery Solver, she’s not a solo act. She works better with the rest of the gang. She’s logical while the others are experts where she’s not: Daphne and trends. Fred and his weird interests. Scooby and Shaggy’s Chaotic Natures. And she’s not infallible. She can only figure out the answers with what she can figure out. In What’s New, Scooby Doo: It's All Greek to Scooby, she deduces that Major Portsmouth was the Centaur based on what she knows. But Susie Smythe, a person she never met, was the person. And she threw a hissy fit when she was proven wrong.
Phoenix, on the other hand, can think logically and chaotically. This is the same guy who crossed examined a Parrot in court and got a turnabout. He also figured out a Dolphin was trained to do something and was not a killer. All without a talking dog. While he has some assistance, Phoenix has proven he is the one doing the major investigating. And his ability to think outside the box can make him take notice of things Velma wouldn’t.
Magatama: Butters is underselling its usefulness. While it won’t likely be accepted in court, it would be a big clue if the person is lying. And like how they would need to unlock it, Phoenix would use this knowledge to gather evidence to prove the lie. And considering they don’t know what it is, the chances of them using Clever Wordplay won’t really work if they don’t know that they had to do it. The example given of its failure was because he didn’t directly kill a person. That’s not clever wordplay, that's a technicality.
Court and Staying to Help: Yep, Phoenix would definitely take over and do well. He entered two completely different court systems in the Layton Crossover and Spirit of Justice and came out on top. The guy even had amnesia and still came out on top. And those two incidents definitely show he would stay to help regardless if he can get money or not. In the Manga, he solved a murder mystery after the fact, which let a spirit rest in peace since he brought the killer to justice.
In summary, regardless of Velma’s “experiences”, both are physically either incapable of helping in combat or durable and strong enough to survive. Phoenix can think as logically as Velma and impractically as Scooby or Shaggy. And he is a wizard in the courtroom. While Velma at best can send them to trial, Phoenix is the one to make sure Justice is Served.
one one hand... velma has once gained the powers of shzazm,
on the other hand, marvel vs capcon exists
So admittedly I am a bit of an outsider to Genshin Impact, but based on my knowledge of the other two series, I think Phoenix would be the smarter choice here.
Now a big point that was repeatedly mentioned against Phoenix was his supposed lack of combat skill. But not only is there his ability to create wind (which can be argued as a fully canon ability thanks to Apollo at the end of SoJ), there's also his experience in fighting while in crossover games like Marvel vs Capcom and Project X Zone, both of which show he is fully capable of holding his own and should be fair to include if Velma's being given stuff like Multiversus. Even putting that aside, Velma is also far from the best fighter on her own, given she's typically the least physically active and cartoony of the gang, so I really don't see why she'd be significantly less of a burden in these combat situations. Especially so given she is the only one of the two that could just go blind at any moment.
Beyond that, I honestly don't really see Phoenix lagging behind as much as was claimed in the investigation front. He's shown equal, if not arguably greater skill in figuring out clues and finding weird things in his own investigations, which also tend to be stuff he's more independent with, as opposed to Velma who usually has at least Fred and Daphne helping. About the only thing I think she'd have over him is raw experience just by virtue of having 3 decades more stuff to work with, but well, the vast majority of her cases with the Mystery Gang are hardly master criminals, given many of them are just rich guys doing stuff in costumes, so it's a bit of a moot point to argue that would be a major factor in dealing with a more complicated conspiracy, which is pretty much Phoenix's bread and butter. Granted, plenty of his own cases also aren't master criminals, but when considering the ratio he likely comes out on top.
-Also I respect the self control to just not mention the new Velma show at all here even just as a quick joke, though it is a major example of how Velma's personality quirks could end up creating more problems than it solves.-
Anyways nice episode guys!
I figured GA would vote for Phoenix.
At first I thought Velma, but I was swayed to Phoenix. The magical lie detecting charm, his experience with figuring out laws on the fly, and his overall charisma makes me feel he takes this. Plus, if he has to fight, he has Marvel VS Capcom. If you don't take that as canon, then Velma will definitely be useless with her glasses. Simply bumping into a wall has rendered her helpless, and the odds of them shattering are high. Some might object, but Phoenix has my unanimous vote.
I think this one goes back and forth but I’m siding with phoenix. it’s worth mentioning Velma’s moveset in multiversus is extremely similar to phoenix’s moveset in marvel vs capcom, I really think they’d fair the same in combat. Even if you don’t include those, Velma’s combat experience wouldn’t save her from hordes of enemies especially when she inevitably loses her glasses. The magatama is an extremely useful tool for something like this especially when it can be verified as real for the court from its spiritual energy. Being able to know when someone is lying would come in handy more than once when Phoenix is already a more valuable asset in court. I do think Velma is a better investigator of the two, but she holds her own disadvantages in that regard as well, like if she permanently loses her glasses, learning to not rely on technology or if she even believes what’s going on is real and doesn’t just default to thinking it’s a dream or scramble trying to figure out unnecessary details. Overall Phoenix is more useful in court, would do fine in combat and would be useful in investigation and questioning with his magatama. Loved the episode btw
I'm going with velma on this one manly because she has already dealt with supernatural beings before, she knows how to pack a punch like she knows martial art like Judo, karate, kung fu & Crochet when she is a young girl, getting out of danger, she has toon force on her side here, and she be really excited when she get to learn the place better while phonix dose not have that kind of stuff sure he may be durable and he is a Lawyer much longer than Velma but that can only go you so far and he's lack of combat might be trouble some for him and the traveler also velma has experienced of this one like her and the mystery inc have been doing this mystery as kids in a pup name scooby doo and it's not the only people Velma has met over like WWE, dc, courage the cowardly dog, teen titans go, Flintstones, jetsons, multiversus, wacky races, the challenges of the unknown, krypto the super dog, Yogi bear, and many many more.
I agree with all of this, but commas are important too :P
Okay so I’ll admit this was very tricky to decide for me, and honestly realistically I think both could do well here and succeed in the end, and I also don’t think either have any major drawbacks, but ultimately even though Scooby Doo did make up a huge part of my childhood, and the fact that I only have surface level knowledge of Ace Attorney, I ultimately would give Phoenix the edge here.
Now the reason why I believe Phoenix ultimately takes this is because of one main thing, the fact their main ally’s aren’t here. Now Phoenix to my knowledge while his ally’s have certainly been a help to him, he isn’t too dependent on them when it comes to winning cases, meanwhile with Velma while I do still think she’d be good here, she would have more problems when it comes to not having Mystery Incorporated with her here. It is constantly shown that the Scooby Gang are always at their best when they work together as they always make up for when other members falter, which means it would take Velma a longer time to adapt to now being able to have the gnat with her in order to help.
So basically while again I don’t think either of them would fail, I think Phoenix would ultimately have a easier time adapting and being without his usual crew while Velma will take a bit longer to adapt to things. But uh yeah if Saul Goodman were here he’d solo for sure, I mean after all he’d be able to remind everyone that they do indeed have rights, not to mention “HES LIKE A GOD IN HUMAN CLOTHING! LIGHTNING BOLTS SHOOT FROM HIS FINGER TIPS!” Okay but uh yeah here’s hoping I was right on getting on the Wright guy here.
Hi. I'm. Bored. And since I'm bored and I have never done vs debating I don't know if I can do well with arguing...so here I go. And as much as I love Velma as a character, I enjoyed the AA Trilogy and it has one of my favorite protagonists in gaming so I picked Phoenix Wright. Also this is my first time in a debate so I don't know if my comment will ever be reviewed. Maybe I suck at it but here goes nothing. Yeah maybe I might regret it but too late here we go! *Poker face*
I argue Nick takes this thanks to his series operating on differnt genres. Scooby Doo only focus on detective solving through wacky comedy while Ace Attorney focuses on interrogation, investigation and trials and so he would have an easier time. It doesn't help that Velma is not with the team, as without the gang together in some media their cases are unsolved. Even if we allow the Gang in this scenario, I don't think they could solve this case because it doesn't apply to SD's logic and plot formula. Also Scooby and Shaggy would probably get the gang kicked out from Fountaine because of their immaturity. In contrast to Maya if she was allowed in this scenario, say what you will about her getting accused 3-5 times her supernatural skills helped Phoenix out in multiple scenarios. Also she and Phoenix get along well while the gang tend to argue and some iterations split up. It doesn't help that Velma's cynicism towards others outside of her friends won't have Fontaine welcome her. Phoenix cares for justice due to his past of being accused twice so he might help Furina more. Also Phoenix is no pushover, even when he got disbarred and became a Hobo. Like Jeez, Hobo Nick was something else due to him plotting seven years to take on Kristoph Gavin, use FORGE evidence to frame Gavin for a guilty verdict, and catch onto clues despite losing his badge thanks to experience unlike Apollo who was a beginner at the time. If we had Hobo Phoenix he still would have solve the crime scene thanks to his subtle cunningness. Phoenix is nice, but we cannot forget he can subtly twist things in his favor when he went against Apollo as a prosecutor in *Spirit Of Justice* all to save Maya. Also Hobo Phoenix is a bigger savage than Velma yet tends to balance his laxness or competence. He was Sans before Sans was create-okay I'm getting ahead of myself.
Phoenix not only faced court issues such as the Dark age of Law and Khura'in but he was able to solve despite setbacks. Phoenix survived whip lashes from Franziska Von Karma, survived coffee mugs thrown in his face, survived eating a poisonous glass necklace, survived blunt force trauma, survived getting run over by a car, or tanked a TNT explosion in the crossover game *Phoenix Wright vs Professor Layton*. Even injured he tries his best to persevere, while the Mystery Gang run away from the bad guys a lot. Sure they rely on Cartoon Logic but only Shaggy and Scooby have that luxury and Velma gets endangered a lot. Examples include Velma and co almost becoming cat furries by Simone, Velma got trapped by Ravencroft and would've been AFK if it weren't for Thorn's witchcraft heritage, and they were about to get destroyed by the Entity if it weren't for Scooby and Friendship Ex Machina. (HOORAY! ;D) Without Shaggy and Scooby or luck, The Mystery Gang wouldn't have survived and without those two distracting the villains she would've been toast. Phoenix can still solve crimes without partners and has been more willing to risk his life during investigations. Phoenix is a champ at surviving attacks just look at UMvC3. (Joking...wish Phoenix was in Infinite) Plus, Phoenix has a track record of facing more intellectual villains such as Manfred Von Karma, Damon Gant, Luke Atmey, Godot, Matt Engarde, or his ex Dahlia Hawthrone.
To be fair The Mystery Gang faced intelligent enemies like Professor Pericles or Ben Ravencroft but none match the cunningness of AA villains. The *Ace Attorney* villains may be cartoony but are more willing to do dirty tactics or even harm Phoenix. Like Manfred tasing Phoenix to prevent him from solving Edgeworth's case or Engarde his "defendant" spoilers the actual culprit of Justice For All calling an assassin to eliminate Maya should Phoenix win the trial, so Phoenix's experience with dire unexpectedness would make him able to survive Fountaine. Phoenix's Magatama and Psyche Locks are his trump card. Not only does this item help him piece together a person's dark secrets through locks, it allows Phoenix to find any clues. Even if the person's locks are darker making it harder to solve Phoenix can still find evidence. Meanwhile Velma has to throughly research a person's background and interrogate them plus Velma's attitude will make it even more harder for witnesses to open up. Furina mighy be intimidated and wouldn't express her true identity in order to solve the case.
Finally, Velma in every iteration has a tendecy of relying on scientific facts than supernatural. Every criminal they meet it's always a logical solution and even when they met supernatural cases such as Zombie Island (Until the Sequel Retconned it yeah) or the Witch's ghost Velma is still insisting on facts. And because Teyvat relies on supernatural too I don't think Velma will take the world seriously. Meanwhile Phoenix did took isekai seiously like the world of Labyrinthia and met Twilight Sparkle in Equestr_wait it's a fanmade series I'm mentioning sorry. (Also go watch MLP Ace Attorney Elements of Justice it's really good) Considering Phoenix crossovered with different worlds with different genres, I'm sure Phoenix isn't bothered by different genre based crossover series unlike Scooby Doo where even though there was fantastical elements like KISS being literal warriors in *Goblin King or Abradraba Doo* and its fantasy creatures the logic is still somewhat grounded like the WWE crossover. Plus Phoenix is willing to defend a culprit and he'll do anything to uncover the truth. Even if he overrelies too much on bluffing than Velma he'll still solve the case.
Anyways that's all I have to say. Hopefully Velma gets a better HBO MAX spinoff series and Ace Attorney gets a sequel or something besides a remaster all the time please Capcom give a sequel. Hopefully I did good with my arguments so...Objection! Did I do good?
Saul goodman solos, next
FR 🔥🔥🔥
Honestly, so true.
I see Navia I like
Okay, welp this is definitely interesting... I have never really played Genshin before in my life BUT what I do know is that Phoenix "Nick" Write is gonna come out on top with this case!
Now, like I've stated earlier I don't really know... ANYTHING about Genshin or this case so I can't really talk about the quest all that much other than GA did a MUCH better job at explaining some of his points and what advantages Phoenix has over Velma, like being better with the court stuff and having an item that's infinitely better than a computer and book, which would quite literally is a magical lie director. Though I'm sure the court would like to know why I'm even here then if my whole idea on how this'll go down is just regurgitating what GA already said. We'll get to that in just a second, bare with me here...
Something that's been bothering me with one of Butter's biggest arguments was the whole thing about "Phoenix can't fight, he'll either die or slow everyone down!" Which while does sound at first, you could genuinely make that same argument for Mrs. Dinkely, who in all of the clips shown has barely been able to show off any real fighting skills save for wrestling which as GA has already said, doesn't really matter when she has ran away multiple times from things far less impressive than bootleg Cthulhu over there. Where am I going with this? Simple, while I don't know jack squat about this case, what I say is that Mr. Write most likely will do much better in combat than what Mr. Butter Sword over there gives him credit for.
I would like to show everyone my evidence for this being MvC3 and the fact that our reliable lawyer has an actual moveset in this game and before Prosecutor Samurai says ANYTHING, since we are using a composite version of both characters with no real rule saying otherwise, MVC3 should be legal to use here and No, my point is NOT me saying "Phoenix gets his Crossover stuff while Velma doesn't!" No, she should very much get her moveset from Multiversus, my point is that Phoenix has faced more people who would genuinely be willing to harm him! I mean, we have interdimensional beings, Shape shifting Aliens, Demons, Racist Robots and the most impressive foe on this whole list: FUCKIN' GALACTUS. You know, the same Galactus who has the title of "Devourer of Worlds"? When you compare all of that to the roster of Multiversus which is mostly filled with Good Guys with there only really being 4 maybe 5 actual villains compared the 12 VILLAINS on MvC3 roster and this isn't even mentioning the more morally grey characters like DP or Vergil. Sure, Velma has faced characters like Jason Voorhees, but what's Jason to Dr. Doom or Akuma? This ALSO isn't even mentioning stuff like Phoenix having ranged options with the certain type of evidence he could uncover or having A GIANT JUDGE SMASH HIS COMICALLY LARGE GAVEL ONTO HIS ENEMIES!
Hell, going back to Galactus for a bit, while Phoenix needed a team of two other guys in order to even beat Galactus, that fact he can even beat him at all is very impressive and with this in mind, I doubt the giant narwhal is really gonna be a tougher opponent than GALACTUS. With all of this being said, him being in battle isn't so much of a detriment anymore since he could pull of off some crazy combo moves with The Traveler and can clearly hold his own thanks to his experience with some of the world's finest Greatest Super Heroes and Capcom's quirky cast of IP's they barley use anymore.
I've been yappin' long enough, so to end this off I ask but a simple question, what's more impressive? The girl who can beat up a Insane Clown or the guy who can beat up a Devourer of Worlds?
Either way, while Velma is certainly a great mystery solver, she couldn't hold a Scooby Snack compared to this Ace Attorney.
I don't have my own points sadly but everything I've heard in the debates and read in the comments makes me side with Phoenix Wright on this one
28:16 28:26 28:34 28:35
*better call saul theme plays*
I'm sorry, Velma, this is not your episode to win. Alright, based on what, Butter said this quest is going to get solved regardless of if these 2 decide to part or not. So, in that case, we need to talk about who will slow things down the least and speed up certain parts the most.
Let's start with a reoccurring argument... these 2 in combat. This story has them being pulled into another universe...when that has happened to velma and pheonix they are actually capable fighters as Velma was the best character in multiversus beta and Pheonix while being low tier was capable of scrapping with marvel heros in mvc3. So neither of them will be a hindrance in combat.
Which leaves us with this. Pheonix has a magic gem that could easily speed up at least some parts of the 3 court cases based on either calling out a lie or making them tell the truth eventually. As well as having a base line understanding of laws and thus being better adept to go. Meanwhile Velma has to deal with investigating being her strong suit...but Pheonix is a pretty good detective as is and has worked with Latin before so at bare minimum he is above average in the other half of this quest.
And finally to top all of this off velma historically does bad when dealing with the supernatural. Beyond what GA brought up we also have the Scooby-Doo gangs encounter with the Blair witch....that ended horribly. And when faced with Jason in Multiversus she panics and runs....I don't think she would be to fond of the monsters in genshin.
Basically TLDR: Velma might be able to speed up the investigation, but Pheonix can do the same plus speed up the court cases. On top of this, neither would be liability in combat. However, Velma has shown to do bad with or have trouble accepting things that are out of the realm of explanation.
Siding with Phoenix on this one, now to avoid repeating some of the same arguments you did I’ll make it short. While I could see both being good at certain aspects of this debate the one Phoenix truly shines in is experience (mainly in murder cases). Keep in mind this is a murder they’re dealing with In this debate, something Phoenix has been dealing with for years While all of mystery inc’s cases are guys in masks and a bit of supernatural but that’s about it. Sorry to say but Phoenix is winning this one TAKE THAT!
Imma go with Phoenix here
First, does Phoenix or Velma even have to fight, neither are fighters and if we composite then they are pretty much even in fighting thanks to UMvC 3 and Multiverses and Phoenix’s move set is more impressive than Velma’s. Apart from fighting against enemies we have two people who are good at investigating, two characters that can study up on stuff, and two people who can handle going under fire. The thing is Phoenix is a lawyer who has tons of experience with law and court cases something Velma has no experience in, so any time the adventurer and Phoenix go to court, the lawyer detective is gonna speed up the process rather than a detective with her own god awful show. Second if butter’s argument is that Phoenix is gonna die even if he’s with capable fighters, Velma has as much chances to get herself killed since she will go by herself to look for clues and with no one to protect her she’s will get herself killed and it would be easier since the moment something knocks off her glasses she is pretty helpless since she’s blind with out her glasses.
TL;DR - both are good investigators, both are experienced in fighting when composited, but Phoenix has more legal knowledge and is less likely to be killed since Velma has a more exploitable weakness that being her glasses
Insert "Still better than Velma (The show I will try to be vague about for sensitivity)" Joke here.
Now laugh.
I'm going with phoenix wright on this. He's got enough of the wright stuff to win this debate.
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy my first(actually second but I can’t find the other one) comment on a galaxy video video! And...
I honestly can’t decide there were so many back and forths between the two debates with points that feel so hard to comprehend the effectiveness of...
So I’m just gonna take the time to say that Butter was Not the one who continued to bask in one of the most tragic Lightspeed outcomes so far, show Phoenix and Edgeworth sloppily kissing, or bring up the 2023 Velma Show So I guess I’m gonna vote Velma off of that.
Although GA’s current 0-3 Win Loss record against Butter being broken by his first GGM appearance would be really epic.
(I wish I could have more to say but Brandon Is the Genshin guy for a reason you know which emoji I would play here)
Sincerely confused about where you think I mentioned Mindy Kaling Velma because we went out of our way to ensure that that show didn't come up at all in the episode.
Oh I’m sorry for not addressing that wasn’t a point against you that was an obvious ‘Velma bad joke’ and Butter was the one gassing up Velma and he didn’t bring that up at all despite it possibly being the most relevant thing about Velma right now so extra props to him.
I understand that neither of them can actually fight, hence the case, but why have they be in the Genghis impact world specifically?
Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, I'm here to submit my evidence on why the man that should come back later to battle Makoto Naegi and Kyoko Kirigiri alongside Maya Fey, Pheonix Wright, has what it takes to solve the case in the land of Fontaine.
Sure Velma has dealt with all kinds of monsters throughout a half a century of mystery solving, but most of the time, it's usually just someone wearing a mask. And even with the very few real monsters she and the rest of Mystery Inc have dealt with, like Zombies, Phantom Viruses, Samurais, Goblin Kings and Warlocks voiced by Tim Curry and Actually Owl Cthulhu, none of them ever go to court. Outside of Harvey Birdman or the show named after her that nobody likes, the only time we've ever seen the gang canonically go to court, Fred was the one on trial and Daphne was the lawyer who had to defend him. The gang only really catch the criminals and hand them over to the police. In most conflicts the gang have, they tend to just run away and then set up a trap later, which isn't going to work here since this is a combat-oriented fantasy world, which the last time Velma got isekai'd to a fantasy world via time travel in Scoob and the Sword, she initially dismissed it as a prank and time travel itself as a hoax. That brings me into my next point, she would not take getting the case wrong too lightly, for example, when a centaur was revealed to be a girl none of the gang had met, who ended up being the assistant of another character, she called foul and lost it, and considering the twist of this trial (Which if you haven't played through it or watched the Jaiden animations video on it, do so now), she might get it way wrong.
But crazy twists are something that isn't new to Pheonix Wright, who is an actual lawyer, unlike Daphne, who had to beat a video game in order to become a lawyer and has very little experience. Pheonix has been dealing with crazy court cases all of his life, even when the opposition have tried to kill him (Manfred Von Karma), ruin his career (Kristoph Gavin) or frame him (The Phantom who wears masks), he's usually the one keeping a level head and presenting the evidence, while the opposition is usually left having a panic attack afterwards and is found guilty. He'll know to look for clues first and avoid conflict, leaving the Traveller and friends to deal with whatever enemy is in their path, while Velma will most likely have her group run away from any conflict and look for clues afterwards. He also has a better chance adapting to the fantasy world of Genshin Impact, as he knows people like the Fey's, who are a family of physics, and his daughter Trucy, who's a magician. He also has the Magatama, which is essentially the Lasso the Truth in which it will be guaranteed that the opposition will tell the truth, which will really come in handy during the final trial, where the twist of the trial will be revealed, and he'll be the one to figure it out.
So, in conclusion, when it comes to adapting to this new world, presenting the evidence during the trial and solving the case, I think Mr. Wright will be the one to do it.
I rest my case, court dismissed, bring in the dancing lobsters.
Hope saul goodman and batman part 2
This debate can be summed up as a battle of brains with a side of brawn, so I'll try to rationalize the pros and cons each have. I must say beforehand, I know next to nothing about Genshin Impact, so excuse me if I get anything wrong.
Velma has an IQ comparable to Batman's and has more experience than Phoenix facing supernatural beings, but as GA said earlier, her loud mouth, lesser experience in court and blatant disbelief in any form of supernatural elements like magic, monsters, etc. can and will trouble the team.
Phoenix on the other hand has also done his fair share of detective work and his skills in the court room will be indespensable for the case, specially with the Magatama, wich would help him A LOT to not get killed in battle when he needs any form of protection. He might've survived a lot more stuff than Velma has without the power of friendship, but he's still going to need the team carry his ass in the fights.
And if we can count Velma's moveset in Multiversus, we should count Phoenix's moveset from Marvel vs Capcom. I know these are not canon to either character, but if we do count these at hand, that should make them just as experienced as eachh other in combat, having fought crazy adversaries like Bugs Bunny, Dr Doom, Superman and Galactus. This means the only thing that matters now is how the could help with the case, and if it's more about the trials than the fights, I have to give this to Phoenix Wright.
He was made for this and has the Magatama on his side, and while it's not the be-all-end-all object to get Phoenix out of this unscathed, it will give him a legup against Velma, alongside the already huge advantadges he has over her where it really matters.
frist time commenting on these,hope i get the result right
i dont know alot about all 3 frnachises featured,but from what ive seen,i think phoenix has this in the bag,he alredy adapted decently well when he was on another world (not saying velma wouldt be able to adapt,but it would take way longer),and as GA said,a big chunk of the story takes place in court,where velma its pretty bad in,so yeah,not hard to understand my point
as for phoenix not being able to fight,as another commenter said,UMVSC3 exist,so thats a moot point,but even then,he could just keep his distance,after all,the best trick a lawyer knows is evading any threats (thats a joke dont worry)
I cant add to this debate so.....
(Insert police raid joke here)
I haven't played genshin so take this with a grain of salt but....... The points made against both sides seem really nitpicky. I don't see Velma sassing away evidence or Phoenix dying (and velmas probably as vulnerable if we go with most interpretations where she isn't ridiculous, plus it wasn't explained how good she was physically so I'm iffy on that), his lie detector should work just fine here and if he's doubted he can just: give them the rock, tell a lie, then watch their face pog. (I think that's how it works from what i got from the debate, i haven't seen ace attorney.) the problem is that Any fictional detective would probably do as well as the traveler here from what I'm hearing, in fact probably any fictional character that has normal intelligence. They have people protecting them and if it is really dangerous, traveler seems to have friends to call on the assign them a bodyguard. it seems like the mystery is less challenging than in most "mystery media" because genshin isn't that type of game, therefore actual people with experience would probably do just fine. I can see anyone getting a lead here, it's sort of straight forward with only really minor factors. As such, i declare this a tie, because no one can get a solid lead due to the case being easy compared to what they've done.
Please do this one bought cooperation needs to be fixed from the ground who can do it better Charlie morning star or SpongeBob SquarePants
Oh my......GOD Damn where the heck is multiverse match video with SpongeBob vs Ronald McDonald jeez Lowees
WHERE IS MULTIVERSE MATCH?!?!?
Ga all point phoenix Wright nan'win
I head all the help I can get and vote for fenex right remember he solde money classes before including the same one as the genshin impact cast the acter how plade a racer from a tv show had a varey sneake murder to kill his rival than in the trile if the actor got gulte he would kill Miya but phenix right make a good case and told the murder that the atcer berdtrad him than the cater got nerves and told every one in the Cort he pot a bonte on top of his rivel hand and phenix right got a chan and went with and with some grate thinking the acter got geleta and Miya was let go so that means that phenix right got the faster and velema hasent bean help agay off a person he diden murder so that's way phenix right got this in the bage
Where SpongeBob vs McDonald
Can you do SpongeBob Vs Felix The cat (Nickelodeon Vs DreamWorks) or Spongebob,Patrick and Squidward vs The Warners (Nickelodeon Vs Animaniacs)
Can i ask how come when i join you guy's server, 1 hour later I didn't have it anymore and that when i try to come back to it it would'nt allow me? Can any of you guys on discord help me (maybe max or ducko)
Here's my idea
Who gets farther in the 23rd budokai tournament: Yujiro Hanma, or Akuma? Assume that stats are equalized.