Myth Vs. Reality: Billy the Kid
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- Myth Vs. Reality: Billy the Kid
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Growing up during the latter half of the "Gunsmoke" era, I heard so many wild stories about Billy that, when I finally got some real details, his life seemed a bit anti-climactic. Then I grew up a bit more and found that his real life was really more interesting than the movies and folk-tales. I often wondered what he would think of the modern depictions. Laugh, cry or just bewildered... Best of Days to all the Ghostriders.
Yeah, me too. I bet he'd say, "Really? They still talk about me?"
@@ArizonaGhostriders Think confused would be an understatement.And though I loved the Young Guns films,they were as accurate as a trust worthy politian.I don't think Billy or the others would've recognised themselves.Same with the James boys & Doc.
@@susanmccormick6022 right, Billy was a loner, mostly. i conclude that, because he rustled cattle....Robbing banks/trains, takes more than ' a single guy ''
Also, too much dust with horses, and a gang. Going alone, at your own 'pace'. would not raise much road/desert dust......
He would get a kick out of it all billy had a great sense of humor.
Very cool video. I personally view Billy the Kid as a kid seeking vengeance
Yes. Me too. Which is another reason I subscribe to the theory he was killed by Garrett. If he lived he probably would have continued to take people's lives connected with Tunstall's death.
@@ArizonaGhostriders I 100% agree.
The wild Snapper: He was more or less left to fend for himself after his mother died.His stepfather didn't give a pin for him.
@@ArizonaGhostriders That is a great point, he was not likely to fade off into obscurity. Another thing was that why would Garrett risk his career and reputation by allowing Billy to escape? After all, Billy had just killed two of Garrett's deputies and escaped from Garrett's jail, making Garrett look bad. I would not do that for my own brother.
I really enjoyed hearing about Billy. I really enjoy the interactions between you and Dan. Always makes for a good laugh.
Thank you, Eric!
"Hey Peppin, I see you got Charlie Crawford with ya..... BOOOOOOOMMMM... Hey Peppin, Charlie Crawford ain't with ya anymore.".....best line from the Young Guns movie !!!
yeah!
I love the myth and truth that surround this icon of the western culture. One of my favorite outlaw characters. Thank you Santee!!!
You're welcome.
Holy cow that ghost punch in the beginning was done so well
Thank you!
I love how-for as long as this series has been going, there's so much more material to cover-and a great deal of it that is part of the larger public consciousness.
While the old West may not be my primary field of historical study, it is one near and dear to my heart, and I really enjoy seeing new material this channel regularly puts out.
Keep up the good work!
Thank you!
No small lines, no small parts - just small actors. Priceless!
Words from Dan...it seems!
@@ArizonaGhostriders Dan added a little extra to the line but much more in the way of gravitas.
I grew up in south east Arizona and we heard a lot of stories about Billy the kid, he is said to have killed his first man while working near Camp Grant later called Fort Grant.
Yes, that's one of those 4 deaths I noted. A bully he finally stood up too.
Yes windy cahill
Just got done watching a documentary about billy earlier today! He was definitely a wild child to put it mildly!
Which is another reason I don't think he escaped death. Why would he all of a sudden calm down?
@@ArizonaGhostriders very good point.
@@ArizonaGhostriders they way I always figured it Mr Santee, “better to burn out than to fade away!” Cliché I know but for billy it’s fitting
Another Great video Santee! I bet the fella that bought the picture of Billy playing croquet was a little upset when he found out the truth!
Oh, he knew the truth all along. Just trying to make a quick buck, it seems.
I did not know that. The croquet picture had been dis-proven?
@@ArizonaGhostriders I watched a documentary on the guy who bought the Billy playing croquet photo, the guy must have spent about $50k traveling and paying money to get that picture authenticated as a Billy the Kid photo. The documentary conclude that it was billy the kid in the croquet picture and it's now worth millions,is this been proven false recently?
I think Sally Chisholm had a photo of a young man that s a dead ringer for Billy, but there is no writing on the photo to say who the guy is.
Isn't interesting that a man so notorious as Billy was still remains an enigma!
Very good story. I had my doubts about that picture of Billy playing outside as being Billy. It's also amazing that for more than a hundred years, nobody noticed the loading gate on the rifle was backwards. He was a righty, not a lefty. Skip
I heard he might have been ambidextrous, but have no proof of that.
@@ArizonaGhostriders That makes a lot of sense actually.
@@ArizonaGhostriders yea that's interesting,I'm ambedextrous and have always had a fascination with it,being an ambedextrous outlaw/gunslinger would be badass
@@santaisgruntinginmycloset9422 I can shoot well with either hand, but am not ambidextrous. I would bet with point and shoot pistols it wouldn't matter too much, since you're not really sighting down the barrel.
@@ArizonaGhostriders yea I understand that,I prefer my left for most things but I can use both equally,I think my brain was just programmed that way even tho I was born right handed.I shoot with my left for like pistols and stuff but with rifles it's so uncomfortable left handed way so I just do it right handed way
Great content. In my opinion I think we never really want to get to the truth about Billy because if we do somehow something in all of us gets lost.. Billies history/myth in a way represents America and the rebel in all of us. He fought and rebelled against "the man" and keeping the mystery unsolved allows the myth or his legacy to live on.
Print the legend, right?
@@ArizonaGhostriders Just rewatched this, Billy is and will always be the best antihero of the old west. Doc Holiday a close second. Thats my 2 bits worth.
@@fishbonez5670 That works!
I really enjoyed that computer simulation of Billy at 3:09 , derived from the one known picture of him! Adds a huge amount of a "you are there!" feel!
Yes!
Fascinating episode Santee.
🤠 👍 👍
Thank you!
Thanks for getting stuff right. Cant wait for your trip to Lincoln.
Me either!
A great podcast about Billy the Kid can be found on the Wild West podcast with Chris Wimmer. Very thorough. By the end you can’t be sure if you love him or hate him. I love my Saturday morning coffee with Arizona Ghostriders!
Thanks! I'll check it out.
Yes his podcast is excellent! I’ve listened to all of them. I especially like the one on the Texas Rangers. 🤠👍🏼
Great video! The computer recreation "kinda puts you in the same room" with Billy. If possible and this channel doesn't mind could you drop a link to the podcast? Hi to T. Rex!
Nice! It seems like Billy the Kid is such a complicated character with a legend so full of knots (and nots! lol) that getting it right is a challenge only the brave take on!
Thanks!
My wife's great grand mother was a newspaper reporter in White Oaks, New Mexico in the 1870's-1880's. Billy lived there for awhile and she was aquainted with him. Several years ago I found 1884 White Oaks newspapers in an old trunk and donated them to the museum there. White Oaks is a semi-ghost town now.
That is such great info!! Waht a great family history.
Billy the kid is one of my favourite gunslingers and the most mysterious thing about him is that many think that he was killed by a sheriff others that he actually lived
Yes, a lot of mystery surrounds him
Good intro for the full version of Billy The Kid! Can't wait! And as Always, another Great video!🤠
Thank you!
I see Billy the kid as someone took vengeance and roadside justice in his own hands
🤠
Little know fact. He briefly traveled with two teenagers from San Dimas. Their adventures were most excellent.
Intersting...
Lol Mr. Theodore r. Logan and bill s. Preston esq.
Being from New Mexico, thank you for not falling for the Brush Bill story. It would be nice if when you do get to Lincoln County/Ft.Sumner if you do a short story on his escape from the county jail there. Also, the number of men he had killed that I have been told by reliable NM historians is 7 and 2-3 of those were either "assisted killings" or he may have killed the man, or the man may have been killed by another "Regulators" bullet during events in the Lincoln County War. He was certainly a colorful character.
I plan to travel there to get footage and history
It has become a myth because there is a 'Billy the Kid' in each of us somewhere i reckon ;-)
Great little vid again,
Greets, T.
You are no doubt correct!
This channel deserves more views. Love your content.
Much appreciated!
Shoo,your friend gave me a heartstopping moment.At first glance I thought he was my fav Monkee,Peter Tork!
Wow!
Billy surviving is a valid theory, however, he was NOT Brushy Bill. We know this for sure because:
-Brushy Bill did not know which side Billy fought on in the Lincoln County War.
-Brushy was illiterate and knew little Spanish, while Billy was literate and spoke Spanish fluently.
-Brushy claimed that Billy's escape from jail after being sentenced to death was peaceful and without bloodshed, which is not true. Billy killed Sheriff Bell and several people witnessed Billy horribly massacre Bob Ollinger with both barrels of Bob's own 10 gauge shotgun.
-Brushy claimed to be left-handed, like Billy. This is because the only photograph of Billy at that time was a picture of him holding his rifle in his left hand, so people assumed him to be left-handed. It was found out decades after Brushy's death that the photograph was flipped and Billy was actually holding the rifle in his right hand. Historians now believe Billy to have been ambidextrous but used his right as his dominant hand.
If Billy survived, he most likely escaped to Mexico and disappeared from history altogether.
The photo, upon inspection, shows the buttons on his shirt and vest on the wrong side, and his belt buckle backwards. Also, the loading gate on his rifle is on the wrong side.
This is because the tintype photo is reversed (they print directly when developed, and the lens reverses the image).
I have a hard time subscribing to him escaping into obscurity seeing as he was pretty wild and never really ventured out of his "zone."
But, theories are out there....and they can really only be opinions at this point, since evidence is scarce.
I remember watching a report on CBS News about Billy The Kid. There were many accounts of the Kid’s legend. At the conclusion, the reporter said, “Billy The Kid didn’t kill as many as he said that he had, but he killed enough to make a name for himself.”
It was said on the old History Channel The Real West(hosted by Kenny Rogers), that the first man Billy ever killed was his stepfather because he was abusive to him and his mother.
I think the first kill was an abusive saloon owner in Arizona, but there are all sorts of stories.
Thanks for the video on Billy the kid. I hope one you do a really in depth video of him
You're welcome.
I don't know why it took the experts so long to figure out the tin type picture was reversed. They should have known from other pictures taken in that time. But the real test would have been with the loading gate on the 1873 Winchester rifle its actually on the right side. So the image is reversed.
Being so close to the time period of tintypes, I agree.
Billy was known to associate with the Mexican population, speak fluent Spanish, and dressed like they did. Maybe the sweater is something they would wear.
Hew was probably just chilly being outside and all.
Nicely done, Santee. Looking forward to that full profile vid.
Thanks!
Hi Santee sounds like there were quite a few tall stories about good ol Billy, but that's how some of the greatest legends live on..I have never seen a picture of him so that was very cool,. I think he's Definitely one of the legends that will continue to fascinate and Interest,
He live quite the life that's for sure.
Thanks mate have an amazing weekend
Well said! You have a great weekend, as well.
Howdy Santee, Deef Smith here.. Great video. I like knowing the facts about these old west legends. I also like the hyped up action packed shoot em up's.
After I watched this video, it made me think of one of my favorite movies " The man Who Shot Liberty Valance" when the newspaper men were interviewing Jimmy Stewart aka " congressman John Stoddard " The truth wasn't as exciting as the myth, and the newspaper man stated " When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." I think that's true about every outlaw and famous person from that period. They are larger than life. That's how come we remember them throughout the years. I really look forward to your videos, your entire crew is awesome!
Thank you very much!
I guess we'll never know all the real details about Billy The Kid, but all the movies and books have certainly painted a picture that we seem to go by. I guess the mystery is what keep us interested, thanks for another great episode!
You're welcome.
Very cool episode. We drive by Butch Cassidy's boyhood home in and near Panguitch Utah every year on our way to Arizona to hunt. I know, not Billy but still is cool to see the history.
He was also supposed to have survived his demise. Butch was one of the cleverest outlaws in the West.
@@ArizonaGhostriders I agree.
I look forward to seeing your full video of Billy. Best wishes!
Thank you!
Outstanding. Awesome video as we’ve come to expect from Az ghostriders
Awesome! Thank you!
Love these ol stories n pictures!! Have a good weekend n week stay safe!
Same to you
🤠 👍has always ! Have a great weekend Santee & Dan.
Thanks, you too!
Hi Marco
I love this so much. I can't wait to learn info about Billy the Kid. super as always 👏🌟❄
Thank you!
''This is the West, Sir; When the Legend becomes fact, print the Legend.''
Right!
First off shout out to Dirty Dan. Good to see you. So great review. You sure weren’t KIDing around on the one.
You got that right!
i just have to say this is the best intro ever! so cool.
Thank you!
He was wind, but I remember reading that he was very mind mannered and had a good smile and he was liked by most!
Yep...even killers can smile!
Jonny P. And trilingual.
Interesting and informative. Excellent photography job with pics/movie reenactments.Enabling viewers to better understand what/whom the orator was describing. Class A research project!!! Unfortunately the kid became a product of his rough and tumble lawless environment. He was either a true friend or a deadly foe. Some of the stories about him were often embellished.courtesy of the dime novels. As time went by/he became bigger than life.
Thank you for the kudos. Yeah, he became a mystery of the Old West...and didn't really need to be!
Thanks Santee I love Western history! Can't wait for the Lincoln video. Ever give any thought about doing some on native Americans of the West?
I've done a couple so far, but plan to do moe.
Why am I not surprised that Dan would give you the funniest job on a movie 🤣😎
Right?
Here’s a a paragraph from my old West inspired novel I’m writing that is also sci-fi fantasy , dark mystery and cosmic horror:
When the etheric universe of Starzul began bleeding into the universe of Lunaydra it caused mysterious yet terrifying supernatural and cosmic events and occurrences to happen on the planets of Alessaeia and Marzo, as well as the Starzul universe itself.
It all began with what seemed to be spirit sightings on both planets, but actually weren’t.
The beings that people on both planets thought were spirits were actually beings called the etheric Atla.
They just appeared as spirits within the Lunaydra universe. Which was due to the different lighting and environment that was different from their own.
I hope you all really liked the paragraph from my book
🤠
@@ArizonaGhostriders thanks 👍🏼🌟😎
Hello Santee! One of the strangest movies I ever watched featuring Billy The Kid, not as a notorious gunslinger, but as the hero of the story was the 1966 horror film, "Billy The Kid Versus Dracula". Said to have been shot in less than ten days on the Corriganville Movie Ranch, the Kid, played by actor/stuntman Chuck Courtney, is a ranch foreman who clashes with the Prince of Darkness, in the guise of the mysterious character called "Mr. Underhill" portrayed by veteran actor John Carradine, who wants Billy's beautiful fiancee, ranch owner Betty Bentley, for his vampire bride. To make a long weird story short, Billy battles his undead rival by knocking the Count unconscious with his gun. Then he drives a silver scalpel through his heart. ( I always thought it took a wooden stake driven through the heart to kill a vampire.) Anyway, after he kills the Count, Billy rescues his fiancee and takes her away- presumably to live happily ever after. Thanks for another great video. Have a great weekend!
I've heard of it, but never watched it. Guess I better now!
Good morning Arizona Ghost Riders. This is Ted from Texas. I definitely enjoy you living in the western part of the United States. I know the West was not as gentle on people in the old days people portrayed to be. Watching your short clips it's a definite positive influence on me moving to the West. Great show my friend
Thank you very much!
Great episode as always! Ya got me a thinking. I wonder how prevelent sweaters were worn in the old west. I think the Billy the Kid tintype is the only one I had seen with anyone wearing one. So you got a cherry stem and a new position as a pileit.
I've seen another sweater or two in photos...but usually not on gunslingers!
Thanks again, always good to see Dirty Dan.
Thank you!
Pard I don't think the mystery of Billy the kid will ever truly be known. Thank you for another good video. my friends call me bull 🐂
You're welcome.
I did not know the croquet picture was a fake. Thanx for including it in this video.
The owner took it to auction and nobody bought it because of the evidence against it.
@@ArizonaGhostriders thank you for the explanation.
Hello Santee, I think it would be cool if you can do a Myth Vs. Reality: the Gunfight at the O.K Corral. Great videos by the way!
Will do
@@ArizonaGhostriders thx!
I'm a lil late to the show.. as always Santee you did a kick butt job! Thank you for having great content brother! You rekindled a love of the west for me and I have been here ever since! Day one sub here!! (well close to day one 😎) A pile-it lol that was great!... sorry about the loss of your friends.
Thanks, RH! Hope all is well in Silver Town!
Great information Santee! Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
"When the legend becomes fact, print the legend. '”
Correct!
Pilot sounds good, as does waste disposal engineer. Cheers my friend.
HAHAHA!
A few years ago I saw on a Mythbusters type show where they tested the " sixteen thin dimes " versus eighteen double 00 buckshot pellets on 1/2 a side of hog and the 00 won ., The dimes hit flat and stuck or went in edge ways and stuck & the rest bounced off .
Yeah, I saw that too.
Keep the change Bob.
Thank you Arizona Ghostriders for exploring the myth of Billy the kid, the myth often is bigger than facts.
Much appreciated!
Thank you sir,Would you do a show about outlaws in Wild West that used the same techniques of wearing body armour?
@@jasonattenborough4026 If I can find info, yes
I would absolutely love to get your take on "Old Henry" starring Tim Blake Nelson as Henry. I think you might find it very intriguing.
I really liked it. Had it figured out early on, but how they got there for the rest of the cast was pretty awesome.
I went through Lincoln county New Mexico on our way to Flagstaff. Very interesting place to visit and wish I could have spent more time there.
Awesome! Glad to hear you went.
Another excellent video, I always learn something. Santee their is nothing like a slap in the face to start the day.
Glad you enjoyed it
Thank you Santee ,for making this happen !
Always!
Found a copy of the authentic life of Billy the kid from the fifties at a used bookstore a couple of weeks ago. It had newspaper clippings from the sixties inside.
So cool! Great find.
Great video. Looking forward to the follow up!
Thanks.
Great vid! I would like to personally Thank you guys for the shout for my Dad Conaly Markham it would have meant the world to him I know it did to me I love you guys.and I made sure I gave him my 1880’s pocket watch so he can always be part of the Wild West.
You're welcome Aaron and condolences on your loss.
Well presented thankyou gentlemen.
You're welcome!
Santee, actually sweaters in old west pictures might not be common since folks wore their 'best' clothes usually. Sweaters were worn as upper long under garments in colder months since wool is a warm insulative material. (no thermal undies back then) Also wool socks were knitted to come up over the knees and worn with a garter or tie to stay up by both men and women. With sheep being prevalent wool yarn was easy to come by. Looking at Billy's sweater it looks like he was photographed between late November to late February around the Fort Sumner area. Temps would of been from 20F to 57F hence the need for a wool sweater. Plus he is dressed in layers of clothing. I found it interesting that those long knitted wool socks were hung up on thin wood leg patterns after washing so they would keep the shape of the wearer's foot and leg as they dried !!
Yeah, it couldn't have been later because one of the 4 copies went to an illustrated press company in December 1880.
Another great episode Santee!
Thank you!
Great vid! I am reading the saga of Billy the Kid right now. It stated that Billy killed his first man when he was 12 and there is no accurate count the amount of men he killed. But the number could be higher than 9 if you include the Indians he fought. Anyway thank you and great timing on the video..see ya down the trail
Thanks.
Borges, in “A universal history of infamy “ quotes him as saying “I’ve killed 18 people, not including Mexicans “
Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid movie from nineteen seventy-three kind of expound on those myths. Thank you Santee for another great episode. Thank you for sharing another great historical figure.
You're welcome.
A man with many names. Some sources say that he was born as William Henry McCarty.
True
Happy new year sir!. I hope. You have a great day!. And love the story!! 🍻
Same to you!
Another great piece. Pop Dan in the smacker!!!!
Oh yeah!
If you go to Hico, TX to the Billy the Kid museum they may convince you that Bushy Bill was the Kid.
They can sure try! I would love to be convinced of that.
Hey, Santee! I think Bill is right! You should do a myth versus reality on him. Happy 2022. Hopefully this year is better than the last.
LOL! Thanks.
Excellent one. Liked it a lot. Looking forward to the future one Lincoln County. Keep them coming. Enjoyed a lot 🤠👍
Glad you enjoyed it
The fact that there's people claiming that he robbed banks and trains and it ultimately gave him the fame he's known for is quite funny let alone he's notorious for cattle rustling
Yep
Such a Great Show !!!!!!
Thank You!
very good editing loved it!
Thank you so much!!
Great video Santee! Can’t wait till the more in-depth one. That was a cool close of Billy moving around looked pretty convincing. Really nice hat there Dan.
For sure!
When I was a kid I always remembered billy the kid thanks for sharing this interesting story santee I hope you try this seabass recipe and don’t forget to get the seabass nice and crispy 👍
Will do
some stories say Garrett was "caught with his pants down" the day he died
HAHA Yeah
A great video, humorous, when not on the topic. A lot.of information in a short video I have often thought the Billy might have escaped if he did he left that area or the USA for a while or forever.
A friend had a '73 and I noticed that the loading gate was on the wrong side it took a bit of research and I found out it was a Tinotype that explained weird
about him in the stories about him. I am a retired photographer, BTW.
I'm surprised more people in the mid-1900s didn't realize that about the tintypes.
@@ArizonaGhostriders Yep, I was too but I think so many weren't use to the first generation of photos that the reversal never occurred to them
Great job and well done on the awesomely awesome and fantastically informative interesting video, I so definitely got a lot inspiration for my old West inspired/ cosmic horror/sci-fi fantasy novel series I’m writing
🤠 Thank you!
@@ArizonaGhostriders thanks and your welcome 👍🏼😎🌟 I’m going to be adding the inspiration I got from the video to my book today alongside the train scene and the breakaway bottles scenes that I’ll be writing really soon. I’ll also be writing some backstory lore to go with those two scenes as well
Howdy AGR team. well the AGR logo overlooking the play area from the house and then again while shooting out the window on the wall next to him. Enjoyed this one as always keep up the great work!!
Much appreciated!
Thank you for Saturday dose of *The Old West* with your signature flair.
Take it easy and have a good one.
Much appreciated!
Santee, our maternal great grandfather allegedly knew Pat Garrett, and our grandfather had a signed copy of that book.
Yeah, I've had missives out to folks who know where the signed copies are, but they never get back to me.
Happy New Year Santee! Looking forward to much more entertaining wild west stories.
Thank you!
@@ArizonaGhostriders
My pleasure Pardner.
(You do sing better than Clint don't you?)
What is interesting is a lot of Myths have roots in fact. At least that’s why my old professor says. Another awesome video Santee. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks AlphaTraveler1!
Lincoln would welcome you for sure!
It's not that far from me! I should just go one weekend.
Love the opening with Bill loading his pistol! When did he start getting physically abusive with you?? Everything surrounding and including Billy will always and forever be great American legends. Have you ever done a video about John Tunstall? Seems like he doesn’t get covered much, if at all outside of a mention at the start of the Lincoln County War.
As far physical appearance, for as badass as Billy was, he sure didn’t look much, did he? Thanks for this video, Santee! I always enjoy you, Dan and the gang!
I haven't, but when I do a Billy video I'll touch on John. To my knowledge no movie has portrayed him as young as he was. 24!
Fort Sumner, New Mexico
Not everyone believes that Billy the Kid was shot dead and buried in Fort Sumner, New Mexico -- but enough people do to make his grave one of the most visited of all Wild West burial plots. Billy was -- probably -- killed on July 14, 1881, then carried a couple hundred yards to the Fort's old cemetery and buried with two of his gang members, who'd been killed only a few months earlier. The Kids' early wooden tombstones were subsequently stolen or destroyed, and the cemetery then flooded in 1889 and 1904, washing away all the headstones and probably redistributing all the bones.
There is no way they could find them after the flood.
Good to see Dan being Dan.
Yes
The old Fort Sumner graveyard is next to a creek. Which is reported to have washed out the graves. I that case the bones that could be gathered would have been more or less randomly been reintered
Who knows where they ended up down stream!
@@ArizonaGhostriders …. If those aren’t Billy’s remains in the Billy’s grave it doesn’t mean he hadn’t died as reported by Pat Garrett. They’re just someone else’s recovered bones from the old cemetery. Of course it doesn’t mean Billy didn’t escape either… As Billy was no good at keeping a low profile I very much doubt he eluded Garrett’s posse and escaped to live a long quiet life.
Loved the intro
Thank you!