It all depends on your goal. Compare same diameter tools and you can run the facemill 5x the feed rate of the fly cutter. Sometimes finish is no concern, but if it is, a fly cutter is hard to beat in my experience.
The insert wear on a light cut with a facemill kills insert life, thats kind of the point I was trying to make and those inserts are pricey. A single point inserrt does not get hurt with a light cut its made for it.
That comparison was very helpful. It gave excellent examples of what each one does and the short but concise explanations were well done, too. Thank you for going to the trouble to do this.
Hi ive been welding/fabricating for 35yr and now im keen on machining my own gear cases myself after acquiring a very basic old english mill/drill and ive sat down expecting to have to watch about 20 videos for the necessary basics but alas you have just taught me clearly and easily in one short very informative great lesson so to you sir i say thank you ! Bravo! Cheers! Excellent! From bob england. Subscribed.
Interesting video. Would love to see the same comparison with the face mill running at the recommended feeds and speeds. Of course, it would still not leave as good a finish, but the cycle times should be more favorable. Can also chamfer with most face mills that have 45 degree inserts at high speed, so save a tool change and gets better use out of your inserts.
Thank you for watching and commenting! I will be doing another video soon that should be a little more fair to the facemill. I would not typically use a facemill to take such a light cut depth wise on hot rolled mainly because of the abrasive scale and the cost of the inserts it is not an economical way to use them in my opinion. That was kind of the point I was trying to make with this video, but will clarify it in my upcoming round 2 video.
by any chance do you know what is the difference between "SE" and "AP" carbide inserts ? and what those abbreviations mean? These face mills are sold on aliexpress , they have 2 tooths instead of one. AP is positioned parallel to the working piece and SE is positioned at 45 degrees so it is basically like the suburban tool, but AP is completely different. Looks like SE is what I need for ideal flatness, but would like to ask expert opinion.
Nice video. Although it seems an unfair comparison as the face mill was running way too slow. Should be running about 180 m/min for finishing on M/S. That’s assuming of course you’re using tips with modern cutting technology. Also, why didn’t you use wiper inserts on the face mill for comparison as well? You can achieve much higher feedrates and still get a nice shiny finish.
Hi Benny, I was using what I have available for the video, and it is indeed a modern cutter but used typically for roughing we always use a fly cutter to finish our parts because the finish looks better and no blend lines.
Great video! Thanks for the content. Looks like you definitely found something that works for you. I use the Mitsubishi ASX 445 and it leaves a near mirror finish with 20 or 30 in/min feed through steel. The 45° inserts are great because they have balanced downward and side force. I prefer the 2.5” diameter because the 3” version can sometimes be problematic in my Fadal tool changer. I have a video of it in action on my channel.
Hi thanks for watching and commenting. I love the Mitsubishi cutters almost never a problem with tthem the inserts are pricey but last a long time. I have one for armor plate that is incredible, I will check out your video.
That is fine for a hobby shop but if you need reliability and consistency, this is the only way to go. We have all been there and done that and it takes time, most shops especially with CNC machines are not going to use a hand sharpened tool bit style fly cutter. Also very hard to accurately measure the cutting diameter.
Hi thanks for watching and commenting, I don't think the fly cutter finish was bad at all but I don't know if a wiper insert would be beneficial with these cut depths. Also I do not know if TNMG 432 inserts are available with wipers, I cannot say that I have seen them offered.
Hi, I remember seeing them online about 10 years ago, but have never tried one. I havent seen them in a long time. I have kind of forgotten what it looked like. What type of insert does that one use?
Hi I did not have any measurable success with the electroculture but the way I did it was flawed for a few reasons. 1st the small antennas I used are kind of a scam and won't do much from further reasearch I found a ground wire is needed and a larger possibly roof mounted antenna to work properly. The little antennas may have some small effect but my patio has rubber pavers snd my driveway boxes are made of metal causung other problems in trying to make them work. The rubber insulated the planters from earth ground which it needed. The metall planters in my opinion act as a shield. Everything grew well but hard to attribute it to the antennas. The magnets were a surprisingly huge success but I have not done any follow up videos due to lack of intrest I hardly got any views on them. Thank you for watching my videos and for your interest I will do more experiments this winter indoors at the shop I will be starting some paulownia trees I grew them a few years ago and everyone loves them.
You only have one pass with the flying cutter. And two passes with inserts for facemil. Well, you can leave only one insert for facemil for the same purity. Or choose inserts for it on the stove that do not appear so clearly at odds.
Hi Sergei I kind of said the same thing at the end regarding removing all inserts but one. You would be surprised how many times we see the crappy facemill finish on parts here in the heart of the automotive manufacturing area here in the Detroit area, I find it unacceptable.
I'm stuck between the suburban tool cutter very impressive but still have guys claim heavy weight inertia type cutter is best for bridgeport far as ease on machine and finish any helpful thoughts appreciated. I like your comparison videos alot. If you have disc / inertia type cutter would love to see that showdown.
@@scottpace8794 Scott I do not have that type of cutter to do a comparison but have used them in the past, I am not a big fan of them due to the weight of the cutter and the balance really isn't there either they are still not a balanced cutter, it is really not possible with an adjustable cutter. I don't believe these fly cutters are harmful to your machine if you ran it 24-7 for 6 months taking heavy cuts maybe but most people don't do that. We use them on our 1995 Fadal CNC mill on production jobs almost daily and we are still on our original spindle, we have had the cutters since 2011. Most machine spindles become worn from lack of proper maintenance in my experience running a spindle dry will do more damage in an hour than running this cutter 10 years on a daily basis. The spindle load meter on our CNC machines rarely register any significant load when using a fly cutter yet when using a face mill it is often 60 to 80% load due to the pressure exerted on the part and spindle. That load is directional and will cause far more spindle heat and wear than a single point tool.
kinda apples to oranges. while it is a pain to get your cutter overlap area to not have a small step with the facemill, a different facemill with a positive or negative positive square or octagonal insert in a 45 degree facemill/shell mill will create a nice shinny, somewhat mirror surface as long as chips are flushed away. the fly cutter will always get a better finish though bc of only having a single point cutter. unless you have a facemill that you can independently adjust each carbide insert and that would be a pain also bc inserts just arent going to be perfectly cutting on the same plane/depth. no matter how expensive the cutter.like the video though
Good point! I do know better but its easier to video it when the camera is in the tripod. I guess it will exaggerate the reading a bit the way I did it. Thanks for watching!
It's called cosine error. You're getting less sensitivity here. I had a student who was taught that the indicator stylus should point at the surface to be indicated. Couldn't suggest to him different. Really made me question what he thought was going on.
why didn't you allow the fly cutter to "heel"? you stopped the cut after only the leading edge of the fly cutter was off the work. let it heel. let the trailing edge feed off the part.
Thank you for watching and commenting! Why would you take the full cut if not needed? The large diameter of this cutter allows it to make a full cut without running the back side, if the part fits within the diameter of the cutter. So perfect flatness and finish why would you take the extra time?
@@mvpmachine You say heeling is not needed, the heeling action removes metal too. As a 33 year Tool and Die Maker, not heeling is bad practice... It doesn't always leave the flattest surface... then again, it is an easy way to hide the head being out of tram. There will be a day when it bites you in the rear and you'll be remaking something... just don't say that no one told you.
@@yelims20 When I check with an indicator and see surface grinder flat and a good finish I call it good, this is a modern fly cutter with a high positive carbide insert and a negative rake, not a HSS hand sharpened tool bit. Big difference.
Hi thanks for watching and commenting! I never would run it that fast unless I was not the one paying for inserts 😆 I always rough with them and just use the fly cutter to finish.
Check out our latest video using The Suburban Tool Fly Cutter :th-cam.com/video/qqlePvSKE4g/w-d-xo.html
It all depends on your goal. Compare same diameter tools and you can run the facemill 5x the feed rate of the fly cutter. Sometimes finish is no concern, but if it is, a fly cutter is hard to beat in my experience.
idk, going like 0.3 mm on a face mill and spinning it a little bit faster gives me the best results on finish
The insert wear on a light cut with a facemill kills insert life, thats kind of the point I was trying to make and those inserts are pricey. A single point inserrt does not get hurt with a light cut its made for it.
That comparison was very helpful. It gave excellent examples of what each one does and the short but concise explanations were well done, too. Thank you for going to the trouble to do this.
@@steveforbes8287 Steve thank you for watching and for your comments!
I just got given a similar face mill. Appreciate you posting the vid - the vid and the comments will be very helpful when I try it out. 👍👍
Thank you for watching and commenting!
Hi ive been welding/fabricating for 35yr and now im keen on machining my own gear cases myself after acquiring a very basic old english mill/drill and ive sat down expecting to have to watch about 20 videos for the necessary basics but alas you have just taught me clearly and easily in one short very informative great lesson so to you sir i say thank you ! Bravo! Cheers! Excellent!
From bob england. Subscribed.
Thank you for watching and subscribing and for your kind comments!!
@@mvpmachine on the contrary sir! Thank you! All the best!
Thanks for the comparison!
Thank you for watching!!
The face mill should give a much better finish than what was shpwn. Consider revisting the feeds and speeds.
Hi thanks for watching, I kind of hinted at that at the end, I agree.
Interesting video. Would love to see the same comparison with the face mill running at the recommended feeds and speeds. Of course, it would still not leave as good a finish, but the cycle times should be more favorable. Can also chamfer with most face mills that have 45 degree inserts at high speed, so save a tool change and gets better use out of your inserts.
Thank you for watching and commenting! I will be doing another video soon that should be a little more fair to the facemill. I would not typically use a facemill to take such a light cut depth wise on hot rolled mainly because of the abrasive scale and the cost of the inserts it is not an economical way to use them in my opinion. That was kind of the point I was trying to make with this video, but will clarify it in my upcoming round 2 video.
Thank you for the comparrison. what HP is your milling machine ?
Hi thanks for watching and commenting! That machine has a 10 HP spindle.
great video, thanks for sharing.
Thank you for watching!
Thank you, very informative 👍
Thank you for watching!
by any chance do you know what is the difference between "SE" and "AP" carbide inserts ? and what those abbreviations mean? These face mills are sold on aliexpress , they have 2 tooths instead of one. AP is positioned parallel to the working piece and SE is positioned at 45 degrees so it is basically like the suburban tool, but AP is completely different. Looks like SE is what I need for ideal flatness, but would like to ask expert opinion.
Hi This link should help you decode them: www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-d.htm
let me know if this helps
Nice video. Although it seems an unfair comparison as the face mill was running way too slow. Should be running about 180 m/min for finishing on M/S. That’s assuming of course you’re using tips with modern cutting technology.
Also, why didn’t you use wiper inserts on the face mill for comparison as well? You can achieve much higher feedrates and still get a nice shiny finish.
Hi Benny, I was using what I have available for the video, and it is indeed a modern cutter but used typically for roughing we always use a fly cutter to finish our parts because the finish looks better and no blend lines.
@@mvpmachine fair enough. Interesting method. Thanks for sharing!
Great video! Thanks for the content. Looks like you definitely found something that works for you. I use the Mitsubishi ASX 445 and it leaves a near mirror finish with 20 or 30 in/min feed through steel. The 45° inserts are great because they have balanced downward and side force. I prefer the 2.5” diameter because the 3” version can sometimes be problematic in my Fadal tool changer. I have a video of it in action on my channel.
Hi thanks for watching and commenting. I love the Mitsubishi cutters almost never a problem with tthem the inserts are pricey but last a long time. I have one for armor plate that is incredible, I will check out your video.
Always preferred traditional fly cutter with hhs, single edge simple re-sharpening.
That is fine for a hobby shop but if you need reliability and consistency, this is the only way to go. We have all been there and done that and it takes time, most shops especially with CNC machines are not going to use a hand sharpened tool bit style fly cutter. Also very hard to accurately measure the cutting diameter.
Thank you for these informative videos. Couldn’t you have used a wiper insert in the fly cutter? Wouldn’t that leave a cleaner finish? All the best!
Hi thanks for watching and commenting, I don't think the fly cutter finish was bad at all but I don't know if a wiper insert would be beneficial with these cut depths. Also I do not know if TNMG 432 inserts are available with wipers, I cannot say that I have seen them offered.
Nice video! thank you so much.
Thank you for watching!
Nice job. Just found your channel and subscribed on it.
Thank you!!!
One question have you ever used the B52 flycutter i have an older one works fairly good but seems like they are no longer made
Hi, I remember seeing them online about 10 years ago, but have never tried one. I havent seen them in a long time. I have kind of forgotten what it looked like. What type of insert does that one use?
Very helpful. Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
hi! please leave us an update about the electroculture. thanks!
Hi I did not have any measurable success with the electroculture but the way I did it was flawed for a few reasons. 1st the small antennas I used are kind of a scam and won't do much from further reasearch I found a ground wire is needed and a larger possibly roof mounted antenna to work properly. The little antennas may have some small effect but my patio has rubber pavers snd my driveway boxes are made of metal causung other problems in trying to make them work. The rubber insulated the planters from earth ground which it needed. The metall planters in my opinion act as a shield. Everything grew well but hard to attribute it to the antennas. The magnets were a surprisingly huge success but I have not done any follow up videos due to lack of intrest I hardly got any views on them. Thank you for watching my videos and for your interest I will do more experiments this winter indoors at the shop I will be starting some paulownia trees I grew them a few years ago and everyone loves them.
glad I watched, very informative........cheers.....Paul
look at that little buddy pushing the like button and subscribe button.......so sweet.....
Paul, he sits in that chair while I work and he cracks me up all day trying to get my attention doing things like that 😄
@@mvpmachine that is hilarious......give him a big hug.....Paul
You only have one pass with the flying cutter. And two passes with inserts for facemil.
Well, you can leave only one insert for facemil for the same purity. Or choose inserts for it on the stove that do not appear so clearly at odds.
Hi Sergei I kind of said the same thing at the end regarding removing all inserts but one. You would be surprised how many times we see the crappy facemill finish on parts here in the heart of the automotive manufacturing area here in the Detroit area, I find it unacceptable.
Good stuff !
Thanks Scott!
I'm stuck between the suburban tool cutter very impressive but still have guys claim heavy weight inertia type cutter is best for bridgeport far as ease on machine and finish any helpful thoughts appreciated. I like your comparison videos alot. If you have disc / inertia type cutter would love to see that showdown.
@@scottpace8794 Scott I do not have that type of cutter to do a comparison but have used them in the past, I am not a big fan of them due to the weight of the cutter and the balance really isn't there either they are still not a balanced cutter, it is really not possible with an adjustable cutter. I don't believe these fly cutters are harmful to your machine if you ran it 24-7 for 6 months taking heavy cuts maybe but most people don't do that. We use them on our 1995 Fadal CNC mill on production jobs almost daily and we are still on our original spindle, we have had the cutters since 2011. Most machine spindles become worn from lack of proper maintenance in my experience running a spindle dry will do more damage in an hour than running this cutter 10 years on a daily basis. The spindle load meter on our CNC machines rarely register any significant load when using a fly cutter yet when using a face mill it is often 60 to 80% load due to the pressure exerted on the part and spindle. That load is directional and will cause far more spindle heat and wear than a single point tool.
@mvpmachine Hey thank you for solid opinion , advice and sharing your expertise with me . Thank you again. Look forward to more videos from you.
kinda apples to oranges. while it is a pain to get your cutter overlap area to not have a small step with the facemill, a different facemill with a positive or negative positive square or octagonal insert in a 45 degree facemill/shell mill will create a nice shinny, somewhat mirror surface as long as chips are flushed away. the fly cutter will always get a better finish though bc of only having a single point cutter. unless you have a facemill that you can independently adjust each carbide insert and that would be a pain also bc inserts just arent going to be perfectly cutting on the same plane/depth. no matter how expensive the cutter.like the video though
Shawn you understood this video I think better than most. Thank you for watching and commenting!
Side note: When using the indicator, try to have tip more parallel with the work piece to not introduce measurement errors.
Good point! I do know better but its easier to video it when the camera is in the tripod. I guess it will exaggerate the reading a bit the way I did it. Thanks for watching!
It's called cosine error. You're getting less sensitivity here.
I had a student who was taught that the indicator stylus should point at the surface to be indicated. Couldn't suggest to him different. Really made me question what he thought was going on.
Shop Doggo best Doggo!
why didn't you allow the fly cutter to "heel"? you stopped the cut after only the leading edge of the fly cutter was off the work. let it heel. let the trailing edge feed off the part.
Thank you for watching and commenting! Why would you take the full cut if not needed? The large diameter of this cutter allows it to make a full cut without running the back side, if the part fits within the diameter of the cutter. So perfect flatness and finish why would you take the extra time?
@@mvpmachine You say heeling is not needed, the heeling action removes metal too. As a 33 year Tool and Die Maker, not heeling is bad practice... It doesn't always leave the flattest surface... then again, it is an easy way to hide the head being out of tram. There will be a day when it bites you in the rear and you'll be remaking something... just don't say that no one told you.
@@yelims20 When I check with an indicator and see surface grinder flat and a good finish I call it good, this is a modern fly cutter with a high positive carbide insert and a negative rake, not a HSS hand sharpened tool bit. Big difference.
@@mvpmachine Knock yourself out...
@@mvpmachine Checking with your indicator in your machine tells you next to nothing about flatness of the part.
VOLUME PLZ! I cant hear isht
Sorry mic died and camera took over
Rev up the face mill 1000 rpm
Hi thanks for watching and commenting! I never would run it that fast unless I was not the one paying for inserts 😆 I always rough with them and just use the fly cutter to finish.
@@mvpmachinehi yes true work are paying for mine.greetings from the UK.
You are running that face mill way to slow