Can You Beat Oblivion WITHOUT Breaking The Ten Commandments?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this video, I attempt to beat the 2006 entry of the Elder Scrolls series, Oblivion! Oblivion is a game where you play as a character who gets freed from the prison, and has to save Cyrodiil from being destroyed. Those who have read the bible will know that God has picked many criminals in the bible to be his disciples, and has used them to do his bidding and perform great things. Is such a thing possible for our good old friend Christian? We shall find out!
My Patreon: / thereconjacob
My Twitter Page: / authenticrecon
My Twitch Page: / thereconjacob97
Unfortunately due to me to forgetting to add the music credits sooner, and also losing almost all the data off my computer, I am not able to go back and check what music was used. If you know what tracks have been used, or if your track is being used in here, please let me know.
00:00 Intro
01:38 Going over the commandments
02:34 Rules to follow
05:06 Escaping Prison
11:11 Finding Martin
12:30 Entering the Oblivion Gate
16:25 The Battle for Kvatch
17:44 The Mythic Dawn
24:13 Spies
25:54 Acquiring a Daedric Artifact
28:37 Helping Captain Burd
29:45 Retrieving the Armor of Tiber Septim
36:38 Great Welkynd and Sigil Stone
43:55 Camoran’s Paradise
46:18 Facing Mankar Camoran
50:46 Finishing This Fight
51:21 How Did We Do?
54:15 Outro
Stop looking through the description! - เกม
![[FULL EP.69] #เอิร์นจิรวรรณ เปิดบ้านหมื่นล้านทุกมุม ครั้งแรก! l เคหสถานบานปลาย l One Playground](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_J4_nw8c64o/mqdefault.jpg)
I love the idea that Christian is just an immortal, inter-dimensional, time traveler who is absolutely livid about the most petty of sins
You know what you have to do next don't you Morrowind
With how old characters get in the bible, he doesn't even need to be a time traveler :P
@@the9kings And then Daggerfall
Then Arena? Or Battlespire? Or the hardest one, Redgaurd because most of the game is scripted if I am correct.
Wait that's me
Resting for 24hrs on a tuesday instead of Saturday or Sunday so that way no one is happy is the most based thing you could've done
I was happy.
I'm glad we have another video about Christian. I laughed really hard at the "I decided to please none of you and decided to rest 24hrs on a Tuesday."
I enjoy this kind of spite always.
Problem is I was pleased by this spite, so guess he failed on that account.
It made me have so much respect for him
The fact that you did this run as a joke and just by chance happened to come up with a way to actually complete Oblivion as a pacifist where others had painstakingly tried and failed is just incredible.
British people be like "nobodies made an attempt to collect the item, not stealing" while going through somebodies tomb
LMFAOOOO
they belong in our museum, finders keepers though isnt it?
Do you think the Elgin Marbles, the Nimrud Bulls & the Palace Gate they guarded, the Rosetta Stone etc. would have survived as intact as they are today if we hadn't liberated them?
Did we not prevent Tutankhamun's disappearance, sold to the highest bidders on the streets of Cairo, never to be seen again?
Or melted down, like the Spanish did with Aztec gold artefacts, for purely monetary value?
Did we not, in fact, save them for all mankind to see?
You may question our methods, but not our intent!
@@manacipher innit*?
@@noiz1762 Sorry, completely forgot, forgive me for my sins against my people
As undead are literally corpses being reanimated by magic or some other non-holy force, I think you were perfectly justified in attacking the skeleton warriors with the Blades as it specifically states that they are cursed and are bound against their own mortal will. And all undead in general fly in the face of the order of creation where all things must have their appointed time to die. Ecclesiastes Ch. 3 is a great way to put some more context in the application of the Godly wisdom that is the Ten Commandments.
13:23 ok but imagine the situation through the eyes of Vonius. He does all the work, but every time one enemy is killed, you go "hold on, let me rest".
"Not yet, let me rest for a moment"
Fun fact: The difficulty slider in Oblivion only affects damage calculations that involve the player. Regardless of what your game's difficulty is set to, NPCs and monsters all do the same damage to each other
Given this fact, a pure summoner run with permanent 100% Chameleon would be entirely unaffected by the difficulty slider
The game's levelling is also fucked.
As far as I'm aware that's not true. Difficulty affects the amount of damage NPCs take, not the amount of damage the player deals, meaning enemies do reduced damage to each-other, while the player simply takes more damage from all sources.
That opening song was unironically, a banger
Reminds me of month python
I literally reset the video to listen to it again 😂
important point to make for potential future attempts at elder scrolls games: All Daedra are immortal, they can not be killed, destroying their physical bodies merely disables them for a time until they reform in oblivion, thus fighting the daedra should not be considered under this rule.
Plus ur basically banishing demons, which sounds like something a Christian should do
Wait, wait, if you use the save exploitation, does that mean you are benefiting from the Almighty Todd? Doesn't that break the rules?
I'm joking, 😂 love this series. This video was especially entertaining.
That Tuesday is Sabbath day?
Magic, *chef's kiss*
32:11 I'm impressed, he even avoided getting to save 666!
"Uh, it's *God* singular! Not any of that plural crap." 😂 as a Christian myself too, it's fun watching this. I could never do this kinda challenge
BY THE NINE!!!
I would like to see a run like this but using every technicality possible. Things like taking a quest item off of a corpse because he attempted to murder you, so you killed him in self defense, and now you are taking the item to investigate the crime of attempted murder.
Or killing the dramora and taking the key was fine because you were attempting to save the person in the cell and you had every reason to believe they would kill him, so that's legal.
Trying to find a loophole around the ten commandments kinda breaks the spirit of the challenge
@@carlflagahornlorfen9069 i know, it would be a different challenge of playing the game as near to normal as possible, but having to find a legal or maybe moral justification of all actions.
@@jak199527 the talmud challenge
@@carlflagahornlorfen9069This has been the bread and butter of rabbis since rabbis became a thing.
A formality, but I think that most Christians would agree that if you HAD to kill a violent enemy to prevent the death of a righteous person, then it is okay. I would think in this case that inaction might technically be more of a sin, though, not against the 10 commandments.
Just pray after to be safe.
A good bit for the elder scrolls games is that Daedra and Dreemora are immortal. If you "kill them" all your doing is disabling their physical form for some time. Eventually they will regain their physical form.
Fun video.
I’d argue that “killing” undead isn’t just permitted, but obligated.
Same with anyone who uses magic. If he sees someone use a spell, he is obligated to kill that person.
@@CosmicGoku529 Very true. Using magic in public is like pulling out a weapon, and I must defend myself accordingly.
For the theft aspect, would it count if you looted the body to unlock a door, but immediately put the key (or other objects) back? - Not stealing; borrowing ;)
My name is Christian, and the first game I ever played was Oblivion so the opening for this was suuuuper weird.
Make sure to follow the ten commandments.
Total lore nerd moment, but you can avoid breaking bonus rule number one at the birthsign screen by choosing the Serpent. The other star signs are constellations linked to one of the various false gods of the setting and are also collections of portals into Aetherius, the realm of gods and magic, and each one gives certain benefits and drawbacks and influences a person's life. Not so with the Serpent; the Serpent is a rogue star, theorized to be a physical wandering planet or comet rather than an actual star, and is linked to no divine forces and in lore terms has no divine importance. Those born under the Serpent are supposedly fated to either live in unremarkable obscurity, or to create calamitous changes in the established order of things. The most that can be said about the serpent is that it is an omen, and omens can be from anyone.
It does give you a benefit, but depending on how technical you want to be the benefit isn't coming from a false god.
Oh god. he actually leveled up all the way to 10 with MINIMUM ATTRIBUTE GAINS
The peak has come back
Elder Scrolls: rest on Saturday
Fallout: rest on Sunday
This has been amazing to watch to the end, seeing all the previous youtubers pacifist tries on Mankar only for you to manage it was so good. Congrats!!
Main reason I love this challenge is that it's revealing of a lot of annoying tropes in video games disallowing particular playstyles (in games where the premise is you being a character you're supposed to have decisions over the actions of; e.g. not a linear game with a set personality to play as). I've very often wondered about looting especially; how strange it is that something that'd be so instantly recognised as vile behaviour in real life is so casually represented as defaultly-fine in so many games. I reckon it's simply something not thought about very much by developers.
I think if I made a game, I'd want you to have no big problem completing it with as varied a set of personality types as I could possibly allow for. True pacifists that even step in to stop allies enemies killing each other. People who won't break any law whatsoever... the real-life version or the in-game version. Someone who must put themselves in all the danger instead of others. Stuff like that. Anti-magic-users (no default spells if magic exists). People who won't weild a weapon (or a certain type of weapon). Is it wrong to hunt? Can you be vegan? Can you conversely, only eat meat? Can you use magic to never have to eat anything? And there's a big one so many games fail so easily - do you have the choice to disagree with every course of action the plot 'wants' you to take? Always alternatives, and always enough of them. A short game with a lot of pathing and replay value, avoiding having much cinematic scripting in favor of in-game engine use for increased variability. Complete it without getting seen by anyone even once, complete it by saving everyone, or saving nobody. Stop someone from making a needless sacrifice out of an inflated sense of heroics. Convince the rulers to not have taxes, or armies. Or convince ones that don't to have them! Even pass through the world with a purpose of complete noninterference with the course it would've taken were you not there (complete observer type). Do any and all of these without having to resort to glitches or even just exploits. A lot may need to be curbed along the way just for things to work - but to write the game from the very getgo with that goal at the forefront and as a priority, at the very least.
And sure lots of those are terrible ideas but terrible ideas that ought to be explorable. I'm not a christian myself but the ten commandments are a very definite set of things that clash a lot of video game convention and reveal the copy-work underneath and I love it. Very cool and very fun! And very fond memories of this quirky game that came with my 360 console that I got because it was released before the PS3 was, lol.
See, I think mispronouncing names in Oblivion is the perfect choice of game to do so as most of the voice actors didn't know how to pronounce names themselves 😂 like Chorrol for example. Characters say a mix between how it's spelled, and pronouncing it as "Coral." That's just one example of many though. Honestly, you might as well make up your own pronunciations of the names in this game
Well, technically speaking there is a canon and correct pronunciation for every name in the Elder Scrolls universe. So you could chalk it up to Bethesda's atrocious VA direction, which they are quite famous for. However, in a twist, it's actually more consistent with real life than everyone knowing how everything is pronounced and doing so perfectly because there are accents, dialects, foreigners and even plain disagreements over what the name should sound like or even whether to call a town one name or the other, which might indicate your political standing. So this is one of those things Oblivion manages to do that are so bad, they're actually good.
@@Lernos1 I think you’re right. People in my town can’t even agree on how to say a STREET name.
Man really relied on god's divine miracles here, some real divinely given Chim.
The Mysterium Zarpuzatovtuweduwe is the most powerful book indeed. But also this video was very funny and well made, and conveys the pain that you surely went through to do the run.
Intro is peak music!
In Acts, Peter gets a vision from God about being able to eat every animal, not just those deemed "clean" by the laws of Moses. I can appreciate your willingness to stick to not killing animals, but God gave man dominion over the earth and its creatures. Also, yay I'm glad to see another of these videos.
I wouldn't call "weakness to fire" a positive effect, but if the Sabbath can be a Tuesday then anything goes
I am so happy to have found a chill gaming channel that is open about Christianity. It's such a pleasant repose from other channels who are often against religion.
Do you think that God has a plan for all of us?
@@kw8057 That is quite the serious question. I'm unsure if you are asking for real or if you're making a joke from the video...
I am not a religious person but this was an amazing video, very interesting to see someone actually complete it. good work
it doesn't count as murder when its a demon
Yea it would actauly be a service to god as they serve a false god and are demons
Also stealing from a demon is a-okay.
Dremora aren't demons, even if they look like them and behave like them. In a twist, it's still not murder because they're immortal and get respawned in-universe, their physical body is merely a wrap for their everlasting and reshaping essence. (It's technically possible to prevent them from respawning if you kill them in Aetherius, but you'd need to find a way to go there and lure them there as well, and even then it's only a hypothesis.)
@@Lernos1 I was more meaning it in the way that they are unambiguously evil
@@GG_1318 Well, not really. Some humans are unambiguously evil, are they demons too? Not all dremora are evil either, although those you meet in Oblivion probably are. And even then, well, when talking about evil, what matters is intent. Demons do evil intentionally, they torment people to either enjoy their suffering or coerce them into sinning. Some dremora are like that, while others... well, all of them view mortals as insignificant beings, ants, because they're mortal unlike them, duh. So some dremora enjoy torturing humans, like some kids enjoy torturing ants, and some don't and only fight mortals because they're following orders, even if they have no qualms about killing them. Some even never meet humans and have no desire or responsibility to do so. Indifference is not a kind thing, but by itself it's not "unambiguously evil" either.
I think the bonus rule 2 is a bit too harsh.
I just think with all the animal sacrifics and slaying enemies of the "god's will", it's more than fine.
But then again, more challenging makes better entertainment. x3
Wait, wouldn't taking the Sigil Stone technically count as stealing from Dagon?
The whole premise around trying to beat games without breaking the 10 commandments is just so damn funny to me
"Can you beat The Binding of Issac -without breaking the ten commandments- while breaking as few commandments as possible?"
41:30
"I believe it was good that I did not recruited any allies because all but Martin would be dead and less allies would mean less people that would need to die"
When you recruit allies the amount of soldiers that fight in the battle is unchanged. Recruited soldiers do not add up to the Bruma militia, they replace militia soldiers. The amount of human fighters is the same, recruiting allies only makes it so that the human soldiers are stronger because they are guards as opposed to militias.
49:30
"Raven sometimes dies for no reason"
Mankars robe has reflect spell enchant. So sometimes when Raven casts lightning on his father the damage is reflected back from Mankar to Raven.
I don't usually watch Oblivion videos, but the intro was 10/10 so I had to give it a watch. Well done. I admire your dedication and effort.
Are you a lawyer? This sounds like a challenge a lawyer would come up with.
Why is this so funny? I’m watching it for a third or fourth time now
I have never seen your channel before, and I'm barely at the 4 minute mark, but I have to stop to applaud the amount of effort you put into even just the beginning of the video; it does not go unacknowledged.
Really enjoyed the creative problem solving in this one. Great video!
Well that song in the beginning is amazing.
You deserve a sub. Your video challenge is amazing! I like your videos content it makes my day. I wish you the best of luck for your channel and your future content as well. :)
I’ve been waiting for a new video, this is going to be amazing.
This is fun. I really enjoyed this concept and video!
You even improved the pacifist runs thats very impressive !
God bless you mate love the work
You can deal with having too higher personality by drinking stuff like beer to lower it
First time finding your content, I really enjoyed the challenge conditions and I'll definitely be checking out your other ones!
Best video game series I have ever seen. Keep up the good work, my brother in Christ!
Really love your style of video! Hopefully more are on the way? Either way, cheers!
Bless you for blessing us like that.
Finally, about time someone recognized that Tuesday is truly the most holy day.
Great video Jacob
Dude, the title you have... is AMAZING! I subbed, I liked, and everything. I wish you great success!
4:28 I'd argue that most undead were risen against their will. Therefore, killing them is a mercy so the dead might go back to their eternal rest that clearly some deranged individual or other malicious force had disrupted.
(Though there's some very murky waters when it comes to Vampires, who are typically regarded as undead but still have the same needs as the living... and Liches, who are necromancers who opted to return to life from death.)
I can't wait for the eventual morrowind run and such on. These keep getting more and more fun.
15:03 But before that they first came to Tamriel, no?
30:20 But actually you are not killing/murdering them, but saving from being entrapped by some curse.
45:23 Weakness to fire. Positive effect. OK.
PS. Intro was awesome.
Killing the sigil keeper in Kvatch should be fine according to the 10 commandments. Or at least by christian standards, since dremora are effectively demons from hell
Such reasoning is why I choose to believe that Doom is a Christian game.
On the undead thing, in elderscrolls lore undead are technically animated by souls and that's why they're visible via the detect life spell, so actually destroying undead is canonically a form of killing in elderscrolls, even like ghosts which are just animated ectoplasm
This is so creative!
Subbed because of the Mankar trick. Good job.
I would argue that the Bands of the Chosen aren't a positive effect, and therefore you don't break the rule.
But I did enjoy seeing the workaround.
The song in the beginning is honestly the best thing I've ever listened to ever
To clarify for the future as someone who hates the sabbath argument. Saturday is for Jews and seventh-day Adventists and Christians who wish to follow Jewish customs cause they had it 'right'. Sunday is for christains and has been since the book of Acts. Jesus made it clear though that you give what is Caesars to Caesar and what is Gods to God. So if you weekend is Monday and Tuesday then yes you can choose Tuesday as the sabbath as you had to work the other days and still dedicate a day to God which is the importance of it all. So unfortunately you did please me. Good video btw.
Getting the stone was the most Oblivion thing I've ever seen. I love this game.
I feel like killing enemies in the Oblivion Gates is fine because the enemies are basically demons.
The catholic church likes DOOM for this reason
I looked it up; the sabbath day is Saturday. The confusion is due to Christians using Sunday as a day of worship, when it was written as part of the Old Testament. While some can debate it’s the Christian sabbath, the commandments were written for Judaism. So Saturday is the right answer.
That was all a lie it’s actually Tuesday. Bob told me.
Nice work on saving Martin and the gang. Want to request:
Morrowind
Fallout 3
Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines
Deus Ex
Mass Effect
Dragon Age
Jade Empire
Alpha Protocol
KOTOR
Jedi Academy? 🤔
X-Men Legends? 🤔
Fable
I don't think you can beat VTMB and Human Revolution without killing anybody.
bonus points for beating all fallout 3 dlcs too
the pitt would probably be the most difficult one
on one hand, you have this former member of the brotherhood of steel who formed a band of raiders and kidnapped or received a bunch of slaves to work for him, but he does seem to have some other plans, such as making an actual city, making a cure for everyone in the pitt and turning the place into an actual city
and on the other hand you have wernher, who may or may not be just as cruel as ashur or he just doesn't care about the slaves and just wants to take over the city so he could rule it; the slaves don't even leave the city after you side with wernher, they continue working and living in the ruins of pittsburgh
also the only person who could realistically manufacture a cure is sandra - she has a motivation to be gentle with the baby, she's smart and she has the resources to help her
i have a feeling that killing her would result in the city becoming doomed
point lookout features a likeminded character so that would be interesting to see - it's a christian missionary named marcella who sadly dies if you decide to help her and afaik it's unavoidable
mothership zeta might also be pretty tough thanks to tight hallways and aliens with strong energy weapons or abominations
and operation anchorage would *probably* be the easiest one
since the main part of the dlc is just a simulation, or a game within a game, this means that killing the enemies doesn't count as murder because they don't exist, they even disintegrate upon death
the only obstacle is the last battle shortly after getting access to the locked room
I just absolutely adore that you use the correct possessive apostrophe placement for a word that ends with an "s"
Very rarely do you see that these days
If the Bands of the Chosen give you weakness to fire, why are you considering that to be a positive effect?
Because I can't read, that's why! 😢
@@TheReconJacob lol fair enough! Seems like the get-around was required anyway for the glitches you encountered later. Loved the video!
Insane that i went looking for fallout new vegas challenge runs today, saw that the title of yours was first up in the search bar, and then immediately noticed that this video had been uploaded so recently LOL
Jesus following the Ten Commandments while facing the hordes of Satan is the most bureaucratic moment ever.
God rested on the seventh day. Sabbath is the seventh day. Sunday is the seventh day, it’s that simple. I know Jewish sabbath differs but this is a Christian play through so the guy that brought it up in one of the comments is correct but it’s also completely irrelevant. And you just saying fuck it and not listening to either is absolutely incredible, love that
8:45 POV you’re my alarm clock trying to get me out of bed in the morning
Happy to have seen this. :)
Great as always! Now I just gotta figure out how to do this in real life…
I love these challenge runs
Alchemy should 100% be an okay thing to do in a challenge like this. It's basically the same kind of herbal medicine monks and other religious leaders would practice in the middle ages. The benefits are reaped from the organic materials, not a deity, as exemplified in how normal food like an apple also has "alchemical" properties.
8:42 Silly emperor, it isn’t a Tuesday!
The resting on Tuesday had me rolling 😂
That intro song is truly a masterpiece 🙏
The intro is so good xD
I would have picked the serpent birth sign and then resisted using it as it sounds more biblical and wouldnt breach the bonus rule if un used
The intro is 💯 💯
good video man
Laughed a lot at the Sabbath decision. The people saying that the Sabbath is a Saturday are mostly coming from a historical or Jewish perspective. In the pre-Christian era, it was unambiguous - Sabbath meant Saturday, the seventh day. Things get a little bit trickier once Christianity is around, because then you've got the original Jewish tradition from which Christianity emerged, alongside the Christian sect that mainstream Judaism rejected as heretical, survived anyway, and thus became its own separate thing.
Within Christianity, the Sabbath discussion gets... complicated - tl;dr territory ahead. On one hand, you have relatively fringe denominations like the Seventh-Day Adventists who, as their name would suggest, still treat the seventh day - Saturday, as the Sabbath. Generally (and oversimplifying a diverse denomination substantially) this comes from an approach to Old Testament law that basically says "if there isn't a New Testament passage that explicitly overrules a command of the Old Testament law, that command is still in force". So, Old Testament said Saturday, nothing in the New Testament says explicitly not Saturday, therefore Saturday. Mainstream Christianity, on the other hand, tends to hold a perspective that the Old Testament law on the whole is not still in force. Some people will argue an idea of the Old Testament law being split into moral, legal, and ceremonial components (although which piece is which is hotly disputed), with only the moral elements considered binding on Christians. Here, the Sabbath law is disputed as to whether it falls into ceremonial or moral - if moral, then Saturday would still be required, while if ceremonial the commandment wouldn't be binding at all. There's also kind of a hybrid version that the requirement to have a day like a Sabbath is the moral bit, but the specificity of Saturday is ceremonial. Others still will take almost the complete opposite stance to the SDAs, saying that Christians are released from the Old Testament law on the whole, except where something in the New Testament reiterates a command from the law. In this case, because nothing in the New Testament commands to Christians reiterates the Sabbath command, the Sabbath isn't binding on Christians at all. Rest is still a good thing, but there's not a mandated day where rest is the only thing allowed. And then, of course, you've got the other camp that's sort of derived from this but paired with the "Church tradition is authoritative" philosophy most strongly exemplified by Roman Catholicism, where nothing in the New Testament necessarily commands a Sabbath day, but Church tradition has applied the Old Testament command about the Sabbath to Christian gatherings on a Sunday, and it's church tradition that then renders that as binding. I'd argue there are meaningful Scriptural grounds to pretty much all of these stances (the exception being the moral/legal/ceremonial split, which I genuinely can't see how anyone would arrive at without starting at the assumption it exists), and would have included reference texts except this is a long enough wall of text as it is.
So, why is the Sabbath associated so strongly with the first day, Sunday, in Christianity? Well, in the book of Acts, there's already evidence of Christians gathering to worship on the first day. In the early church, every Sunday was basically a mini-Easter celebration - Sunday was Resurrection Day. For Jewish Christians, this was probably in addition to keeping the Sabbath on the seventh day. But, over time, Christian practice definitely emphasised the Sunday gathering moreso than anything connected to Saturday, and the various schools of thought releasing Christians from the seventh day commandment won out. Through the church tradition view mentioned in the previous paragraph, there then grew an association in Christian thought of Sabbath = Sunday, because that's the day that Christians were being commanded to keep as the Sabbath.
In terms of this series, I would have personally gone with Saturday, just because I'd have let the text of the Ten Commandments stand in their immediate context. From the perspective of the book of Exodus (from which you're citing the commandments), the Sabbath is unambiguously Saturday. If you want to start bringing in New Testament perspectives, you're going to have to deal with things like hating someone being equivalent to murder per the Sermon on the Mount, and thus needing to avoid any dialogue options that could be construed as hate (similarly lust and adultery). Maybe something that's down for, in which case then the Sabbath decision gets tricky again. But, if you restrict yourself to the immediate context of the commands you're using, Saturday is the easy decision.
On an unrelated note, I might be the only one, but I felt like the song/chant bit at the beginning dragged on for far too long - crossed the line from being a fun gag to cringe for me. Still watched the video because I really enjoy this series, but I can imagine closing the video pretty quickly if I were a first time viewer. As it is, I skipped ahead to the rules.
I think in the Christian capacity, the issue of sabbath seems to be addressed (in my own, unprofessional opinion) in Colossians 2, where Paul tells the gentiles specifically what jewish laws they should follow after the council of Jerusalem, and notably says that they do not have to follow the Sabbath law and that anyone who tells them to follow the sabbath is wrong and stupid and bad. (I paraphrased a bit to make it funnier, but you get the point).
There's also the idea of fulfilled laws rather than laws that were just arbitrarily taken away. For example, when Jesus was crucified on a wooden cross, he fulfilled the law that says any who are hung on a tree are cursed, and from that there is the idea that Jesus' death, resurrection and the church that followed did not abolish any of the old laws, but that many of them were fulfilled in Christ, which includes the Sabbath.
It is also important to remember, aside from just video game rulesets, but in the real world, that in living by the commands God has set out for us, and by obeying his will, then we are growing our faith, love, and other fruits of the spirits, but, it's also important to leave room for grace and not get caught in the weeds of what constitutes a rule, like how everyone is doing on this ruleset. The best way I've heard it said is that if it feels like its a sin, its a sin. And if it feels like a sin to someone around you, its also a sin because you could be causing them to sin.
All this in mind, I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said, I just was bored on a Friday night and wanted to type up an essay talking about theology because I can't argue it with my friends since they're not awake rn,
A detail that was missed (unless I missed where it was mentioned) is that the Sabbath is not just a commandment/law given to the Jews at Sinai. It appears from nearly the beginning, where even God rests after 7 days of creation…from whence the practice presumably originated and continued.
Which may suggest the pretexts offered for why it must/should/can be abandoned are dubious (ie seemingly convenient theological excuses to veil a different motivation).
@@adamguillory2428 I can totally relate to the desire to just talk theology on a Friday night, haha - in fact, that's exactly why I'm here to respond.
In my original response, I was trying to simply present the reason behind the disagreement without taking a side; I figured trying to take a side would undermine the value in presenting why the earlier videos attracted so much disagreement. That said, personally I hold to the "new covenant = new laws" perspective. Romans 7:1-6 gives the clearest reasoning for this: in sharing in Christ's death and resurrection, we die to the law that condemned us, and are raised again to a new covenant as slaves to righteousness rather than slaves to sin. This is why Colossians 2:16-23 isn't in conflict with Matthew 5:17-20 - the keeping of the feasts and the holy days are absolutely among the dots and iotas that have not passed away from the Law and the Prophets, but we have passed away, so while the Law that establishes the feasts and holy days remains, we are different to when we were under and condemned by that Law. And, looking then at Hebrews 8, that makes sense. The new covenant is better than the one it replaces, for many reasons argued throughout the book of Hebrews.
That does not, however, make me an anti-nomian. Christians are absolutely bound by laws in a covenant (I'd argue one of the most useful definitions of "covenant" is actually "a relationship protected by rules"). It's just that, in order to find out what those laws are, we don't look directly to the old covenant, we look to teachings that took place within or around the establishment of the new covenant. Jesus reiterates the commands to love God with all our heart, mind and soul; to love our neighbour as we love ourselves (including a parable challenging people to expand their definition of who constitutes a neighbour); to not murder or commit adultery (including expansions to what behaviours are at odds with these commands); and even to not commit sexual immorality (without expanding or restricting the command, so we can still look to the Mosaic Law to inform how we interpret that command because the definition of sexual immorality his audience would have used to understand the command would have been derived from the Mosaic Law). So, these are commands carried forward into the new covenant. However, commands that find no reiteration are not carried over. Many of these include explicit statements of release, such as the aforementioned passage in Colossians. That doesn't mean there's nothing useful to learn from those commandments - the book of Hebrews is particularly dense with seeing how the commandments in the old covenant pointed to Christ, as one example of how they can still be learnt from. It does, however, mean that we aren't bound by them.
The idea you've articulated about "if it feels like its [sic] a sin, its [sic] a sin" and "if it feels like a sin to someone around you, its [sic] also a sin because you could be causing them to sin" is very much a Biblical one - Romans 14 is the foundational chapter for that mode of thinking. If someone feels like they're disobeying God by not honouring the seventh day, they should absolutely be honouring the seventh day, not because they new covenant binds them, but because their conscience does. Likewise, if by not honouring the seventh day we risk causing a brother or sister to stumble, then we've sinned because we've presented a stumbling block. To quote 1 Corinthians 10:23: "'All things are lawful,' but not all things are helpful. 'All things are lawful,' but not all things build up." We're released from the Mosaic Law, but our decisions about what we do still need to conform to the command to love God with all our heart, soul, and mind (meaning not doing anything that feels like we're disobeying him) and the command to love our neighbour as we love ourselves (meaning not doing anything that presents a stumbling block to our brother or sister in Christ, even if the new covenant permits it). I would, say, however, this sort of thinking is very much a supplement to the hard restrictions of the new covenant, not a replacement for them. That is, even if murder doesn't feel like a sin, it's still a sin because there's a command against. However, choosing to eat a certain food because it doesn't feel like a sin is fine, because there's no command against it. So, because of that, debating whether a command does or doesn't exist against something is important because conscience covers the territory beyond the commands, and doesn't erase the existence of commands.
Anyway, I think that's most of my thoughts in response to what you've said - could probably ramble on for longer, but that'll do for now, haha. Hope at least some of that was interesting to read, and perhaps I'll see a response from you if you once again get "Friday night theology discussion" cravings once Friday night rolls around in your timezone
@@miot22 The difference between the mention of the Sabbath in the creation account in Genesis 2 versus the Sabbath commandment in the Mosaic Law is that, in the former, it is simply the day that is declared as holy, while in the latter there is a strict obligation to do no work. One can honour the seventh day as holy and the day God rested without needing to do no work within the specific boundaries established by the Mosaic Law, but obviously one must adhere to those boundaries in order to adhere to the Mosaic Law.
I've just replied to Adam above establishing my stance on the relevance of the Sabbath command for Christians, so I'll not repeat it here. I'd like to think I don't hold that stance in order to veil a different motivation; if there were a strict prohibition against working on the seventh day that I believed applied to me, I'd make every effort to adhere to that prohibition. However, as I read Scripture, I don't find myself convinced that such a command exists in a way that is binding on Christians. If a Christian believes that must adhere to the seventh day restriction, they're free to do so. But, if they don't, they're equally free not to. That said, the fact that Jesus says the Sabbath was made for man rather than man being made for the Sabbath (Mark 2:27) means that there is something inherently beneficial for humans about resting on every seventh day, and so there's certainly wisdom in keeping to a "six days of work and rest on the seventh day" cycle (whether that day of rest is a Saturday, a Sunday, or, indeed, a Tuesday). But, at that point, I still believe it's a wisdom issue, not a commandment issue. Of course, this is entirely from a Christian perspective. If someone is a Jew, I understand entirely that the Sabbath would be treated as a commandment issue.
@@ryanmuller9497 you’re telling me the original precedent of God resting (abstaining from work) thereby making that day holy has nothing to do with people observing the Sabbath? It’s just a happy little coincidence an archaic ceremonial law happens to refer to the same day? Or is the point of the commandment a reminder of a preexisting bond going way back, ie remember the day God rested and made holy, that one, y’all forgot but were meant to be keeping that.
Each subgroup reaching for a different unconvincing explanation to defend their specific stance doesn’t help. It’s why I’ve insinuated the impression of trying to use more “on-brand” explanations (fitting each denomination’s specific idiosyncrasies) to maintain a convenient tradition (avoiding the probably unsavory historic ones) more-so than proper theological reasons.
Anyway, I’m not trying to start a whole thing in a yt comment thread. Just my 2 cents why I usually “press x to doubt” when I hear [insert excuse here] for why Sunday is where it’s at.
I appreciate the use of Lupin music. A true man of culture.
Using virtuous pope for the background music is very fitting.
Love these videos brother . Would love to see fallout 3 and maybe some games like kingdom come, dragon age, outer worlds
BY THE 1 DIVINE! ASSAULT ASSAULT!
Bro 😂 the second you died here on 12:10 I instantly got an ad got cut of perfectly
Fun video thanks :)
The opening hymn is a banger.
I am pleased by you resting on Tuesday
The Return of the King 🙏🏻
Yooooo what did we do to deserve such a banger at the start
You guys have shown me so much love these past few months I really wanted to make this one special.