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Skyrim Together Project is a MESS and DOES NOT UNDERSTAND PR / Communication | SKSE & More
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.พ. 2019
- Last video I did was focused on TES3MP and otherwise just signal boosting other people's concerns with the Skyrim Together Project. As I said in that video, I didn't really believe any of those rumors floating around, but now, having talked to both fans of the project and a couple developers on their discord server, once personally, and by proxy via friends a couple times, I've got a good sense of what is wrong with the project.
We'll be discussing the expectations of people, and what patronage is, and how backwards, stubborn view of PR is the cause of most of their issues via either a lack of communication, or childish and bad communication.
The Developers see themselves as just ordinary mod hobbyists, not professionals. And keeping that in mind we are going to ask a very important question regarding social expectation:
"How much money does a project have to make before you start getting professional expectations placed upon you? How much money does your project have to earn before it is incumbent upon you to step up and begin acting professionally?"
That question by it's very nature is unfair to the mod makers, but a social reality that fairness and their own feelings can't overcome.
With a Patreon bringing in 35,000 to their company, allegedly named "Titlted Phoques" or "Tilted Phoques" (the incorrect spelling may be the correct one), allegedly based out of France. The corporate taxes in France plus Patreon's own cut would net them less than half that amount per month. So we'll be discussing some missteps they may have made during that time dealing with the patreon.
The majority however is PR, Skyrim Together or Skyrim Togather as I call it, the vast majority of the problems the project is now facing are ones of it's own making.
Returning guest Kon will speak about how he got their discord server to lock itself down rather than have a serious discussion about one of his favorite topics, Open Source.
![[TH]FFWS SEA 2024 Fall - Knockout Stage Day 1](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nsDmUQdWVtg/mqdefault.jpg)
"I don't actually care much about video games." 5 seconds later :"I do have some serious concerns for this project."
@@Zhakaron I guess you meant it very literally when you said you have an on and off switch for caring about video games.
@@Cyrus_II I mean the man is a self-professed hypocrite.
He obviously cares a lot about video games. His catalogue of work alone is evidence. This would be like spending thousands of hours speculating on baseball, then claiming you don’t care about baseball. No one will believe you unless they are a sycophant.
trololololol
@@lol69203 Calling oneself a hypocrite does not excuse that hypocrisy. The impact of that hypocrisy (to me) is insignificant in this case but it is important to make that distinction.
My experience with "professional" modders is that the lack of Open Source acceptance is an immediate and fatal red flag. I can only speak for my experience with the Python community, but the unwritten rule is that when you are already MODIFYING someone elses's work, it behooves you to not be an arrogant prick thinking your work is so above reproach as to hide it away.
You thought it was a mod developer...
But it was I, *TODD HOWARD*
Stand User : Todd Howard
Stand : It just Works
You thought it was todd howard
So your finally awake?
@@MrRattlebones640 You thought it was another joke...
It's you're* not your
But it was me, correcting your grammar!
NANI?!
TODD'O.... HOWARDA..?
~NANI!~
"Your license isn't legal in my country so i don't give a shit"
You give really solid advice. Keeping their fingers off the keyboard would've done them so much good or at the very least have someone less emotionally invested and more eloquent speak on their behalf... Cause that one sentence absolutely murders goodwill.
"Your mistakes transcend time!"
so was this like a dragon break or is it lore?
I really need that on a t-shirt.
To be fair, they always have, now there's just a record of them.
@@jesterssketchbook There's no such thing as a dragon break. There's BEFORE EA destroyed Origin Systems, and AFTER EA destroyed Origin Systems.
What I'm saying is, The whole TES series is a complete rip off of the Ultima saga, as implied by some interview dealing wit a chessclub miserable nolife whose laughing now.
Moons? Yeah: Trammel and Felucca.
Soulgems? Yeah: Arcadion, the blacrock sword.
But hey, no one got here to hear about some huge and boring shopping list anyway.
And I'll puke 5000 bucks to my all time favourite Spoony one's patreon BEFORE I decide to crap a single one more for Bethesda mofoes.
See? I can be hypocritical too, but at least I'm not a hypocrite.
@ Zaric : Ja, ja, ja, of course! We'll meet again, you Vera Lynn brother thingy, some sunny daze. See you when you get to level 99. Love ya! ;)
Hey Messire? Yeah, on the other line, there's some *Before The Silence* kinda huge nerd telling yourself about some guy called Jon Van Caneghem adoring your comment.
Zaric Zhakaron one of the few content creators on this site than can call a part of his audience stupid and they still respect him, because he's one of the wisest of the lore-beards...
Well he didn't say everyone just the people that fall in that column
Lol, the target are the ones who are bothered by what he said about some of his viewers being stupid.
@@inun8917 I thought he didn't like Skyrim Together personally from my point of view. But that was probably due to me listening to Zaric like it's a Podcast and not paying full attention while doing other stuff.
I don't think it's cus he's a lore breard, he's honesty or more or less blatentness is actually entertaining
@@rhythmmandal3377 I was being sarcastic, but yes I agree.
"We do not do PR."
That... is a *_very_* concerning thing to be proud about...
“Your mistakes transcend time!”
Mind if I quote that?
Romanus epic quote!!!
lol I read this moment the exact same time he said that xD
Let me make sure I understand this correctly. These guys defied and ignored requests to not use SKSE, were told to stop, didn't, kept doing it, making $35 000 a MONTH off of someone else's work (which was released under limited license for free)...and SKSE is supposed to be okay with that? The hubris of these people is astounding. Kon was absolutely right: they are under NO obligation to be discreet, and have every right to post on every social media platform, from Discord to fucking sky writers, that someone stole their work. The only time discretion would be in the victim's benefit would be to make absolutely sure they are accusing the right person of the right crime.
that one dislike is that one dude who knows he speakeths too much.
My concern is that skyrim lacks pictures of the spider man
www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/4308
I believe this works for that? XD
You’re on my newsprint pad
Valid concern.
Zaric: "I'm a hypocrite and it takes one to know one. So here's what you're doing wrong that I'm doing wrong."
Based AF
As someone with a disability, thank you for pointing out that we're here, and can be usefull, never expected to get a confidence boost from a Zaric Video LOL
what stupid fucking thing to care about
The Skyrim Together supporter base is a cult, it really really feels like a cult of kids who spent their birthday money paying for access to a mod and feel personally attacked for people calling out the shady devs for being shady.
WorcestershireySauce I feel like Zarics fans are also cult like
@@kingcobrajfssepaboosterclub Found the kid who spent his birthday money on access to a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>skyrim mod
**shrug** they just want the game really really badly, that's all - just can't be all that surprised that there are fandoms at all and at their core of course you're going to have fanatics and of course they're going to act exactly how you expect. I just don't know what people are expecting from screwing around with them lol
Ive prob seen this mod about twice when the first trailer came out and when the beta came out so trust that im not a cultist fan but seriously how do you guys care so much about this i really would love to know what you do with your lifes so that you can give so much attention and care as to these things when it affects you 0%, its a fucking game, we just all want to play one of our favorite game online, and they deserve the money the money they made and worked for, ok some codes were copied, 98% of the rest wasnt, im sure everyones copied something lmao this shit is all about greed and other companies wanting more than theyd deserve, but still even then why is everything a huge fucking deal now a days, you guys are all making this way bigger than it really is and THAT is what will get our dreams of online shut down, not them, you! youtube is becoming the new news media, a shit ton of drama about things that realistically doesnt matter
Mimicking players to create a "multiplayer" version is a pretty cool concept, if they ever get their s straightened out
Whether or not it is a buggy mess the fact that these people have a patreon making making almost 40,000 a month is sickening.
Wonder why it's hacked.
I mean if youre a little bitch boy who cares enough then yeah i gues
@MaztaPan At least we know it happened. The Skyrim Together was buggy and had a good run. Not the team but the project.
Theyre making 3k a month.
@@flashpointstudios7910 boy oof
Money corrupts when offered to the wrong people.
Too much money, like too much alchohol is a bad idea for most people. People can get addicted and not be satisfied with having enough. At that point it becomes a mental illness.
Too much money causes mental illnesses in a lot of rich people. Just like too much power.
Neither money nor power corrupts. It reveals your true self. Just like you don't know how will you react in a dangerous situation you never know how corrupt and egoistical you are until you have the chance. Everybody fails at some point, that's why centralized power is a really bad idea.
A person who acts who would act that way is already corrupt. Money just enables them.
@@evilkate9884 I don't agree. It doesn't reveal your "true" self. It reveals what would happen if you had too much power and money. Just like how getting drunk doesn't reveal your true self, but it reveals how you'd be without inhibitions.
Which is everyone on planet earth.
I really appreciate your matter-of-fact take no shit attitude, it's part of why I keep coming back. Keep up the great work man!
I wasn’t really expecting this to be much of a success anyway considering mods of this ambition rarely succeeds
Removing a script that isn't yours is actually quite easy. Once found, just highlight and press backspace.
I really can't stand these types that disrespect open source from high upon their piggyback ride of open source tech, from the GNU/Linux servers they host their proprietary content on to the web browsers and infrastructure they use to connect to and access the content. Not to mention all the food they enjoy thanks to the inherent open source nature of farming. :^)
31:40
I'm a disabled vet. I would LOVE to help them out. Would give me somethin to do...
@@GiganFTW gotem
Though you may need to learn to code
@@abyssstrider2547 I only know very basics. Like 2d stuff. I could be a conformity manager like he mentioned that actually does p.r.
It was my job to get yelled at and be ok with it, and in general I AM ok with it. I might actually try if I wasn't concerned I wouldn't fit into the "in crowd" of shitty community moderator folks.
That being said of someone wants to Tudor my coding, I am quiet and I learn quickly. Rofl that'd be a hell of a favor, yeah? I need to pull up a java tutorial and start self teaching with all this free time I have.
@@GreySativa Neat
@@GreySativa Absolutely, coding is about being able to study at least four hours or more straight and focus.
Skryim together sounds like a dating website tbh...
"Do you get to the Cloud Diatrict very often?" sounds like a pickup line now.
EA or Activision should hire the skyrim together guys as executives miscommunication is a key part of corporate structure and they have it down pat and they'd have an even bigger budget to boot.
nah... id still rather sleep with EA and Activision...
34k? Nah I expect professional work
"your mistakes transcend time!" I love the language in these videos
Zaric is the chosen N’wah
I heard from Sinitar gaming that SKSE uses game engine code making it impossible for the team to sell it commercially. Also, this puts the Skyrim Together team in hot water with Bethesda and Zenimax.
I’m a mod, how can you steal a mod?
What are you a modification of?
Skeletorskittles What a grand and intoxicating innocence
No recall or intervention can work in this place, there is no escape.
This is the end. The bitter, bitter end.
Shame of you sweet Nerevar
This happened a year ago. Anyone know what happened with Skyrim Together and have they resolved their issue with the SKSE team?
Even if SKSE was open source it wouldn't allow them to plainly copy the code without hesitation. It depends on the applicable open source license attached to the product. However, that's a common misconception even in professional context.
Anyway, from a software engineering perspective simply copying the code is lazy and dumb. In computer science there is a theorem that there are indefinite algorithms to solve a problem. Hence, the developers could have found a different solution by understanding the code of SKSE without copying it 1:1. Then they wouldn't have to abide by copy right.
19:27 The best use possible for a meme.
These guys's pr is as good as Bethesda's game design. So that's fair
Ooh Skyrim modding community...you're always so silly and entertaining
I'm starting to think they don't know what "Public Relations" means. Saying a modder is childish isn't news... it's how the majority of them are, at least according to my experience. They take constructive criticism as if it were a kick in the genitals. Spoiled brats make for poor human specimens.
"Reality exists in spite of your personal wishes."
Words of wisdom right there, something that fewer and fewer people seem to understand nowadays.
Local man makes 34 minute video about an argument he had on discord
I was thinking if Zaric would upload a video tonight and lo and behold
Get ‘em Zaric
Oh boy that title is bound to make a lot of people mad... Nice 😏
Such a shame. The idea of Skyrim MP just cannot seem to catch a break.
The only real way I can imagen Skyrim getting multiplayer is if the same thing that happen with openmw and Daggerfall Unity. Rebuild the game from the beginning.
But can we talk about those sik daggerfall beats in the background?
Daggerfall had the best soundtrack
I hope the ST team can swallow their pride, it would be a shame for the project to fall through.
I will play Open Morrowind with you to RP as a trans-Argonian
The great argoinion hero known as Tapes-Dick-Back
I love that Rule 34
thats hot.....thats hot
The Lusty Argonian...Butler?
He puts the but in butler.
This is why when a wizard visits your discord server, you extend him the utmost hospitality.
Corporate taxes: taxes are theft. However, you won't find so much misery in France like in the States.
On the other hand "softening up" tends to also wrap it in marketing lies. Good for business. Still bad PR in its own way. But one sin doesn't take the venom from another.
Oblivion is my favorite, i don't really care about multiplayer skyrim
if we could mod multiplayer skyrim, especially with stuff like requiem.. that would be amazing
though i imagine a lot of the script heavy mods like that would cause even more issues then they already have.
oblivion multiplayer would be interesting though i don't think it'd be quite as fun other then maybe drinking a bunch of skooma and running around and jumping on shit with a friend
I'm not a fan of gamers on you tube or twitch with the exception of this guy and a couple of others . Why ? Because even if I don't agree with what Zaric he lays out his thoughts with a clear and even tone demeanor. He also doesn't trash things just for views. That's rear on you tube now a days. Thanks Zaric
on being mature. I actually learn somethingfrom your knowledge.
360p club *N'WAH*
HARK! THE TRIBUNAL HAS HEARD US! *1080* TRAIN!
Wow, Skyrim Together is a true sh!tshow. And making 35K a moth is insane. Its time they are held accountable for their wrong doing!
Ages ago I would have thought mod creators weren’t a part of any kind of drama. Then I found Zarik Zahakaran and the disappointment ensues -.-
Also........BY AZURA!!!!
Exactly, now it seems like Im hungry for TES-related drama, hahaha.
And this, kids, why you need empathy in any business. You may care or not care, but you need to understand what others think of something.
You sir, are the Thufir Hawat of gaming news (i.e. you're a bleeding brilliant individual, with spiffingly amazing eyebrows).
Subbed so fast.
open mw is where its at
And Daggerfall Unity as well.
@@K_Bone damn right
Since it is not a choice I would love to have mp mods for any ES games. To be honest, even if it was a choice I would prefer mp for Skyrim, but that is just me.
Man, did you grow up watching a lot of Jack Nicholson? Your mannerisms, facial expressions, and some parts of your voice and speech pattern *really* evoke Nicholson for me.
Zaric you triggered a major crisis in ST. Well done I guess, they're kinda jerks.
Those developers seem completley inept and childish.
I’m failing to get excited about something that will largely be rehashing a 7 year old game to shoehorn multiplayer in. Essentially, if the entire game plays the same with the same quest structure, bugs and gameplay limitations the majority of people will get bored. It’s a huge effort for not much gain back and it seems to be putting pressure on the devs that they are not professionally able to handle so they’re resorting to skulduggery whilst the finances mount, creating a real and present danger that they have to make and finish this competently and in good time. It will be a disaster, especially when all the technical issues rear their head. Not to say you should never try, but the game engine, the AI and questing are very dated and I believe it will fail to re-engage many for long.
Ewww.... 50% corporate tax? Blah!!
I know, should be at least 80%, amirite? Better yet, make all corporates publicly owned (including FOSS) by default
Lol I like your videos thanks for making them. 11 dislikes so far.. must have struck a nerve, no such thing as special snowflakes.
I think TES 6 will be a half-assed attempt at Bethesda "re-making" Daggerfall. I'm not saying it will be 100% a re-make, but I get the feeling Bethesda wants to go back and redo the Iliac Bay with a more modern setting and a modern 3D engine. That's just my speculation of course so I know I'm probably wrong.
I had no idea mod makers have actual legal holding of their work, pretty badass
You get that from copyright by default, but the Bethesda agreement is, *in-a-nutshell*, about the mess that comes along with distributing modifications/duplications of their copyrighted content ... which is pretty much 99% of all mods for TES games.
Are you the guy who streamed a lets play with those lovers lab mods a few years ago on another site?
well, legally speaking i find intellectual propriety a bit shabby, for instance adobe photoshop does not require a contract for the use of the platform, in the extent that the developper does not demand a "piece" of the object created by the user, yet in gaming that argument is reversed; i don't know if there is any precedent in court that would debate this, that's the problem and beauty of common law
Thanks for the clarification on SKSE situation :D
You should make a follow up seeing as everyone is talking about it again.
I thought this mod was solidifying, sorry it's so troubled.
Are you sure you are not talking about Fallout 76 ????
I find it funny when content creators call part of their community stupid, then there's people in the comments being angry about it. It's basically putting yourself on a target and revealing that you're one of those people.
holy shit that's a lot of money. That can't be legal
The irony that exists by them making the PR statement "We don't do PR" in almost certainly pleasing certain types of fans of the project. You know the type, the cretins who think just being toxic for its own sake is a means of entertainment. The slime of gaming and the internet in general.
Really brings up questions of the Mod Teams Morality concerning how they are handling this situation.
11:22
"It's a Mod; How can you steal a Mod? What a grand and intoxicating innocence! How could you be so naive?"
I have just one question. Why didn't they choose to hide the amount of money they get from Patreon?
We would see how many patrons there are, and then we would know the minimum
A tongue may be silver but silence is golden.
That is a good quote.
Morrowind sold extremely well, rescuing Bethesda from the edge and catapulting them to worldwide fame. They had created characters and a world which captured the imagination and stuck in people's heads. But then to everybody's surprise they abandoned everything which had brought them this success. They released Morrowind on the Xbox and suddenly started hearing feedback from a new kind of audience who didn't care about any of this lore stuff, and just complained that the combat was bad, there were too many words to read, the story was confusing and they kept getting lost trying to find the right cave for their quest. And instead of listening to their PC players, they listened to them. This was the turning point which decided the future direction of the series. In the next installment they did a complete 180, returning to an utterly bland generic fantasy setting, with dumbed-down mechanics and a simplistic good-vs-evil-time-is-of-the-essence storyline. Why did they do this? The Morrowind approach worked. They saw it work. It made them money. Why did they abandon it? Look at these images and just imagine the sort of Elder Scrolls games we could have had if they'd taken the other fork in the road.
Those morowind dungeons look really good
Lord zhak dropping hard facts
They really need to put their code on github. It can outlast the devs server and bring in new devs. As it stands now I don't want anything to do with it due to the risk of it disappearing tomorrow. I want it to succeed just as much as any fanboy would ,but I don't honestly see it happening in it's current format.
reminds me of Star Citizen. these backers become bonafide investors and they expect a very real payout for their investment.
You ever thought bout doing an ultra modded orc playthrough? Morrowind oblivion or skyrim? Kinda random but I've always wanted to see you play an orc
>fanatical followers of a mod
Pretty normal, tbh
>Pretty shitty Devs
I've seen my fair share of this too.
>30k per month on the line
Oh...Oh dear God.
Hey,
Just one single point of criticism: The monitor casts a reflection on your eyes so severe that it often looks like you had your eyes closed while talking. I'd really prefer seeing your eyes, gives that personal touch.
He doesn't expect everyone to be experienced enough to watch the video through the reflection of their polished steel shields. Subscribers turned to stone can't press the like button anymore.
Lol it sounds like your typical group of newbie indie developers tbh, I used to run into this sort of crap all the time in the Star Wars Galaxies emulation scene, imagine an entire community based in this complete lack of communication, it almost thrives on it - that's essentially the SWG scene of today lol
This IS concerning because I've seen community developers completely abandon a project for stupid reasons and feeling attacked by the community because they can't communicate to the public properly and if it's as you describe then yeah it puts the whole project at some level of risk.
Skyrim SE doesn't have any standard software license, just boilerplate for liability, but there is something mentioned in the license file :
"These notes apply to all of the files in src/skse:
Due to continued intentional copyright infringement and total disrespect for modder etiquette, the Skyrim Online team is explicitly disallowed from using any of these files for any purpose."
By the way, no license seems to mean "exclusive copyright by default", so they don't actually have to add that note.
I have been banned from discord server, because community helpers and developers couldn't answer why yamashi is still leading the team if he's hypocrite, and why the SKSE was there if it "wasn't" used, they tried to say things but didn't try to answer. Community like childs trolled everyone who tried to discuss, community helpers, who were called as part of the team, were trolling by playing bingo with problems being on them, and joking about that.
Ogers are like onions. They have layers
Intellectual property is not property.
@@Zhakaron I don't think that is true at all. All one would have to do is write their work, advertise it, then release it after they have received X dollars in donations, funds, etc.
Thx for wearing a suit in your basement
Professionalism, people value appearance less and less...
@@zayan6284 thats a good thing, i dont want to get respected only bc i wear a stupid suit. Respect me for who i am lol
@@bobincognito the suit is evidence that you care and value the job your going to, it's a reflection of your attitude
@@zayan6284 then, the clothes wear you. But you should be the one in the suit. Not the suit you are wearing.
@@bobincognito I never said that the suit is the only indicator about your attitude, I said it was a indicator
The good thing about humans is that you can just call Part of the Group theyre in stupid and they never think you mean them
Just cause they're receiving a bunch of money for their product doesn't entitle people to them acting as profesionals
Pr= public relations. Obviously by talking to people about the project is public relations. Saying "we dont waste our time with pr" is pr and it's bad pr
What really gets me about this project was what I recently just stumbled across that concerns me greatly. The fact Skyrim Together has supposedly stolen code from SKSE to get this mod working.
VR and Together for the laughs, not to be taken to serious. My expectations for TES VI make my stomach turn upside down...please Talos, let it turn out good. Cheers from Germany
Well...there's always the better mod for skyrim. Like, Going Outside: its free and the author is unknown. But so far I've enjoying it for the past 21 years.
Edit: relax, I'm not one of those people who hate on others for having fun. I was just trying to reference r/outside but with a twist.
R/Im14andthisisdeep
nah, going outside sucks. Outside has the sun, vehicle smoke, and people. Any more suggestions?
That game doesnt even have quick save lmao.
I think you'd like r/outside
The author is a bunch on protons,neutrons and, electrons
hold the phone Zaric... WHAT animation mod is that in Morrowind? that running anim is amazing
Piece of advice, dont start a 34 minute video with trying to convince the audiance you don't care. Generally that comes off pretty bad.
This entire video is just about your personal issues with the developers, such clickbait.
Long story short: if you think we can have something nice, you are so damn wrong.