Leatherman please, take this seriously. (These multitools are real challengers)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
- Am I hurting Leatherman posting this?
I hear this often in the comments. Let me break it down...if one individual is capable of making a major impact on a multi-million dollar company simply by sharing awareness, then the issues are inevitable.
I critique Leatherman because they still have the ability to turn things around and dominate the market. However, they have work to do.
It begins with engaging the community who can help them succeed.
0:00 Overview
0:30 Modular Tools
2:49 The Wave Clones
Leatherman Wave amzn.to/3WbhHAg
Budget Multitool List: (compare prices)
amzn.to/3Fii42C
7:17 Leatherman Surge Clones
Leatherman Surge amzn.to/4ddLLkT
10:40 Leatherman Sidekick
Leatherman Sidekick amzn.to/44erlUJ
Signal amzn.to/4aOvS2K
Roxon Flash ELITE amzn.to/3UsKiju
17:17 Conclusion
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Why would Leatherman take their competition seriously? They don't even take their customers seriously.
EPIC BURN
This comment should be pinned!
Cept for the 25 year warranty
So true
I lost all respect for Leatherman when they chose to discontinue the Squirt series instead of improving them.
to be fair, I think they had no choice. People were abusing the 25 year warranty on it and it cost them far too much money to replace the tool every time. In my initial video, people were saying they used the warranty 3 times on the same tool. There is no way Leatherman can keep it and also have the 25 year warranty.
@@maxlvledc that's fine, then they should just re-release it with a 5 year warranty or sum, tools aren't meant to last forever, cars come with a time/distance warranty, those who abuse their tools like that won't really be mad that the new ones won't be the get a new one every 3 years because they destroy their knife cutting concrete.
but you said it well, complacency should not be tolerated.
@@attila5221 I agree lifetime is st upid. Nothing lasts forever. I still have my pocket knives like new. Some people think pocket tools are professional construction tools.
They got rid of a couple of great models.
I still have a Squirt ES 4 and it's a really handy tool because it's so small but packs in a lot of functionality. I also have a Wave which is over 20 years old and still works great. I'm not especially brand loyal to Leatherman but they make decent tools. There are a lot of similar tools to the Wave now, even the Swisstool is an obvious knockoff. I think more choice will keep prices down and maybe somebody will come up with a useful innovation. I do wish they kept the Squirt line because I think there is a place for a tiny tool that fits on a keychain.
TX Tool Crib even says that leathermans quality has been suffering as well, he bought a few surges and the quality is different on each one. :/
That is why I will not pull the trigger on any more tools, as their QC is practically non-existent....the warranty should be used as the exception, not the rule....hence the debacle with the Squirt & the Crunch, for example....
I hate that i have to agree but I Love my Charge with Rebar pliers, and i want a Arc ive been a fan for 25yrs and still think they are the king. They have to step up
I was recently blown away by the quality of the green Flissa 16 in one. It's a bit heavy, the tool set isn't perfect, but wow. It's normally listed at $16, but after using their 30% off coupon, the price was only about $11! And after having it in hand, seeing its quality, I immediately bought 2 more to leave in vehicles and tackle boxes. I could buy 10 of them for the price of a Wave. I also thought the Shall was really good for the money.
let's be honest. leatherman went the way of boeing after the new ceo in 2018, they care more about profit and buisness than their customers or product (just look at leatherman garage ). it worked fine for a few years when the only competition was gerber or sog , but now its finally catching up to them. new competition is definitely running circles around them, and they dont seem to have the answers.
You are describing the profit motive under capitalism.
Their biggest competition was Victorinox, but they too are also losing their way and forgetting what made them great. The biggest competition at the moment is probably the smaller companies who are hungry to make a name for themselves and actually compete and innovate for customers. We’re at the point where there are multiple modular multitools on the market now that not only allow you to customize your ideal multitool but also with super steels and at a fraction of the $250 price for the Arc - *and* Leatherman still doubles down on their soft proprietary flat bits and discourage their customers from trying to modify their multitools. They have a 20th century mindset in the year 2024 and it’s finally catching up to them now that their patents have finally run out.
@@arnoldkotlyarevsky383I think he’s referencing excessive cost to consumer. Personally, spending $150-200 is just too much for me.
@@arnoldkotlyarevsky383 It's more profitable in the long-run to run a multi-generational business built around high-quality products that build brand reputation, even if the short-term profit margins aren't quite as juicy as selling semi-disposable multitools. Chinese knockoffs have that market cornered already, and I doubt Leatherman will last long unless they drop their prices to match their reduced quality.
@@arnoldkotlyarevsky383the issue isn’t profit motive. The issue is with bad management prioritizing short term profits over long term growth. They would rather take more profits now and let the company collapse in 10 years than cut profits now, but continue to grow the company.
I will probably still main the Bond and my Knifeless Rebar for work, but I had to get the EOD cutters and I have some off brand cutters for a backup. I refuse to get another replacement cutter multitool from Leatherman. The Leatherman multitools are more reliable for away from home but I already started using my BIBURY Surge clone for around the house and I love it. It hurts me that Leatherman looks like they are going downhill. I got into multitools at the worst time. I always carried a Victorinox since I was a kid, but I wanted to be more prepared a few years ago and that's when the new cutters were added. I was able to get 2 new cutters sent to me, right after I bought it, but right after the 2nd 1 broke, that's when the Arc came out. This is heart breaking, especially since my Uncle passed away and I wanted to be a Leatherman fan like him. My Uncle also bought me my 1st Victorinox, so at least I can still be a fan of Victorinox still. I really hope Leatherman changes they're mishaps and maybe come out with a new multitool with a full 1/4 driver and no replacement cutters. At least make a Rebar with the Bond plier head. I would be happy if they had the same tools, but went to the non replacement cutters. It would be amazing to see a Surge/Supertool size multitool, but with modular tools to build for yourself. That would be popular and probably over take the multitool market. I hope 🙏
This is sad to hear... but also nice to know others feel as I do.
Another really good video Dominic! I have also been pretty disappointed in Leatherman’s lack of innovation, price increases, and discontinuation of tools with little to no notice. I also hope they do something big like make all blades Magnacut and improve the bits situation, but it doesn’t really feel like they’re listening to channels like yours unfortunately 😕
I agree with you 100 percent! Leatherman has been asleep at the wheel! Leatherman needs to migrate to standard off-the-shelf bits ASAP! Change that bit driver now! Why is Leatherman always out of stock on accessories? Such as the ratchet! I have been trying to get a new ratchet for about two years! It’s never in stock! I don’t understand why anyone would buy a Wave or Surge right now! Yes… For the warranty…. C’mon! One can buy four clones for the price of a Leatherman (Wave or Surge). Leatherman has made a lot of money over the years! They have become fat and happy! They have taken their eye off the market and lost their ability to be cost competitive! Yes! Made in America is great! Unfortunately, Leatherman is located in Portland, OR. A state, that’s a mess, not business friendly, has very high taxes, and cost of living! The high costs of doing business in Portland is reflected in the price of Leatherman’s tools! Leatherman needs to change their business model from all angles …. Or, eventually fad away!
You can thank scalpers for the ratchets always going out of stock
No way I am paying $200 for a Leatherman. $200 gets me damn close to a new pistol. I just got the Bibury surge clone for $30 and I love it.
I really appreciate the candor of this video. Harsh, observable fact based info.
Take the straight blade and serrated out of the Wave, put in the serrated hook cutter blade, put in a really competent scissors outside, and replace the tiny scissors inside with a sharp awl. PERFECT tool. Call it the "Wave Form," and you've got a seller for 20 years @ $99...
Can you give me some examples as to what you would use the awl for yourself? I struggle to find uses for them aside from poking a hole in something soft
@@L0wSkiller I'm always poking holes in things to run zip ties through them. Sometimes use it for cleaning under finger nails.
You can get a quarter inch bit adapter for the Leatherman. Okay it is an extra bit to lose but then so are all the bits! If you want the best, then the Swiss Tool from Victorinox is the one to beat in terms of comfort in use and fit and finish in general. I have several Leatherman models and one Swiss Tool. The Swiss Tool is the one I reach for most of the time.
I totally agree, except for the blade. If you wanna use your multitool for cutting, stay away from Victorinox - these blades are way to soft. But, for the tools? I love them! Especially the can opener is the best patent at the market!!!
Great video man great topic. People like to say cliches all day, but like you pointed out, complecency has killed the American manufacturing market. Good enough only goes so far when competitors can do what you do better and for even less. Innovation is what has always separated us, the fact that other industries have to copy us to even compete
Great video as always. I love Leatherman, but as you rightly said there is area of improvement. I have a surge, which I love but at work or daily life in general I will mostly use the screwdriver and the pliers. The pliers can be handy on certain tasks, but not for everything and of course the screwdriver is very limited with the Leatherman bits. On top of that, being an expensive tool I often hesitate to use intensively although I don’t doubt it’s quality build. I tend to use more Victorinox products as I find that the tweezers, the toothpick, the needle, and the small screwdriver are actually very handy on daily life. That being paired with a great pair of scissors an easy to sharp blade and even a small pair of pliers. I then use a normal screwdriver (or bit driver) and a real pair of pliers for more intensive work.
Thank you for making this video, I hope Leatherman do something unique and LISTEN TO US !!!
It's not complacency, it's arrogance now, we're being actively ignored and disregarded 😡
I mean they're the biggest multi tool brand and they don't even come to trade shows !? WTF
The tool set you described is exactly what i want. I thought about replacing the serrated blade with scissors from a 91mm victorinox and replacing the interior scissors with an awl. that would be perfect. love the micro bit driver also. Somebody needs to make this!
The biggest issue I've had in the clones isn't the functionality or capability, its the quality of the steel and the fit and finish. They seem to just be lacking.
Nah, if the "quality" of the steel was up to your standard (whatever hocus pocus that may even be) you'd find something else to nitpick on to shill for that company. Anyone buying the Surge instead of the 40$ "clone" needs some extra screws up there.
None of the surge clones have a proper pocket clip which pretty much eliminates them for me. I'm not trying to stick on some crappy pocket clip that's going to fall off
Leatherman all the way😮
@@Yeet42069 Not specifically talking about the surge clones but any. I have 2 wave clones and have handled 2 other wave clones. Both have poor craftsmanship where the main blade screw comes out by opening and closing the knife blade. The scissors bend easier than the leatherman scissors, the screwdrivers round out much faster than the leatherman bits. I know the arc wire cutters are lacking but the clones are worse in that area. I think the clones will get better but until the steel is improved and the fit and finish is better, I'm carrying a leatherman/victorinox (king of quality) tool.
All of the wave and surge clones I've handled and own are better fit and finish than the Leathermans I own. The Ozark trail multiforce is superior in every way. Better steel, better scissors, better bit systems and comes with extension all for $40 and no questions asked 5 years warranty
I abandonded Leatherman when they raised the price of the Micra to $50 , they used to be $20'ish. They make great small gifts and $50 is completely unreasonable for that product.
Great video, good topic & perspective! So many of us use and carry multi tools everyday. It’s fantastic seeing so many great options on the market today! I carry the Skeletool. Simple and effective.
- Nate (Ohio 💪🇺🇸)
Awesome video. Makes me feel OK about looking beyond LM.
It's only common sense at this stage. I own 2 x Waves and a Surge, but I just bought a Wave clone as a gift. It had a bit kit and free shipping for US$20.... SIGH
You should always feel ok ...... they mess up ...get lazy etc. Donwhat you want .... they are only brands .... not family
@@blackline66 People have strong feelings about their favorite brands....
Nice video. And I agree, Leatherman is letting the competition nip at their heels. I thought the P series was innovative. The Arc is an upgrade. But in my view, I don’t see it being worth $80 more than a P4. At work I alternated between a Leatherman TTI and a SwissTool. With the SwissTool seeing the most carry. I had always felt that Victorinox and Leatherman had the best multi tools. But the competition is catching up fast. I bought a Bibury 16-1 multi tool recently after seeing a video on it. For around $25, it was worth a try. It isn’t at the same level of quality as a Leatherman. But it still is pretty good. I’ve tossed it into the glovebox as an emergency tool. I also bought one for my stepson. Even if it does crap out at some point, I can get another one and still be money ahead.
Well said. I think they are simply relying on brand loyalty to stay afloat. Even though the competition is half the price. It might take a few years for their customers to catch onto the competition and sales to slow before they do anything. They are obviously cheaping out on materials but also raising their prices.
I've broken too many tools on my Leatherman plier tools in the last few years. They are cutting corners with steel and heat treat. This often happens when a third generation takes over and the bottom line becomes way more important than quality. The wire cutters used to work well, now they break and are near useless. Gerber maybe ?
Nice thing is they will replace them no questions asked. When you're knock off pos breaks (probably when you need it the most) you get to buy another pair. Now you are at an even price and still with no warranty.😢
You are 100% right, not only outdated technology but to raise prices as much as they did baffles me. They have to be losing decent market share at this point.
Regarding the bits, the part 1 kit which has almost everything you need (no t6/t8 or hex bits) is $15. More importantly, you can buy replacement bits in the common sizes (Phillip/Flat and dual Phillips, or dual flat) reasonably inexpensively ie $6 for 3. And yes, the cutters on my bolster are bad too. But otherwise QC on leatherman is good. The QC on generics I have are hit or mostly miss. Nothing holds a candle to victorinox though. Everything I get from them is perfect. A PS4 replacement and crunch replacement would sell well.
WOW! That ROXON FLASH ELITE S803E is SUPER DESIRABLE! The FINISH on the ROXON looks EXCELLENT! I have the Surge in black but am irritated by the narrow proprietary bits, even though it's a super versatile tool. AND it was SUPER EXPENSIVE. Great video! All the best, Rob in Switzerland
Good video, Dominic...😊At 8:10 you mention another bone of contention for me...the cutters...I believe the cutter problem still has not been solved to everyone's satisfaction...What have you heard? Are there any alternatives to the Leatherman cutters? Thanks!!😊
Nothing is done...that's the last I heard.
Potentially yes, I'm working on that.
@@maxlvledc thanks!
@@maxlvledc thanks! That will hurt any one who has a Leatherman tool who wants reliable cutters...
I've carried a micro for years as well as a squirt, the original Leatherman I had was stolen years ago. Then I bought a Gerber and carried it since. I have Free 6 I believe, haven't seen it in a while. Recently I bought a wave+ and a bolster from a pawn shop for $80 for both they are both clean and tight and have no issues. This is how I will be buying any further Leatherman I add to my collection. I'm looking at Roxxon for my next buy.
I've been really digging the ROXON phantom since I picked it up like a year ago; Easy changing blades with multiple options, massive scissors, good assortment of tools with easy access with one hand, great build quality... definitely recommend
A couple of points - my own company just hired a marketing firm. One of the first things they told us is that if there was work to improve our products that we did *not* do, rest assured there were going to be competitors that *would* be doing it. Also, I keep wondering about the discontinuations. People (including me) are really unhappy about all the models they stop making instead of improving, but I wonder each time if they just weren't selling enough to justify keeping them. Leatherman has to sell to more than just the enthusiast community to do well, and I don't know if enough of those folk were buying Squirts to justify keeping the lineup around.
Their biggest problem is marketing..I have no idea why they spend money the way they do in 2024..it's arcaic and very inefficient.
Great video. I carry a Swiss Army Tinker and have carried one for over 40 years. . I keep looking at multis and love the ingenuity behind them, but man i just cant get past the bulk. The Tinker lacks a file and a saw, so I'm about to upgrade, but not likely to a multi. The quality of Swiss Army is stellar. The pocket feel is very good and the steel and quality control is perfect. The rocsun you discuss is a nice unit, but is obviously heavy. They might want to switch to carbon fiber and skeletonize the scales. That would really be tempting.
You want the Victorinox Handyman, then. Of course, if a multi-tool is tempting, there's always the Victorinox Spirit. The SwissTool CS is awesome, but I wouldn't call it light weight by any means.
Once i started carrying a surge anything else would be a downgrade. A few extra ounces means nothing to me.
I've been using the Bibury for a few months. It's more comfortable and better equipped than my old Leathermans. So far no issues.
Sadly my Roxon proved inferior with a spring snapping and blades dulling quickly.
What a fantastic video that really hits all the points in a constructive way. One can only hope that Leatherman is listening, along with the others since they are all competitors for the same clientele. For me, if you are willing to spend in the $100 range, its hard to beat the Roxon, IMHO. I didn't want to spend that kind of money, so I recently bought the Bitbury 31n1, in gold(yellow) for less than $40. Unfortunately, if I had to predict where Leatherman is going, I would have to say they will become irevalent. Unless Leatherman listens to you and others and begins to take action.
I was die hard Gerber and SOG however the new Leatherman ARC has left my 20 plus Gerber and SOG tools on the shelf since I got it
Yesteryear in the UK triumph Norton bsa we're the top bikes Honda kawasaki yamaha murdered them these things happen companies just don't learn
@maxlvledc Great content, brother! I agree that Leatherman needs to do something to improve their tools/tool sets. I'm honestly amazed that they're not coming trade shows or Expos any more too. THAT is a recipe for failure for sure! In a fair market system, like here in the US, competition breeds excellence. That said, if they are not willing to improve and take heed from the end users regarding the quality of their tools and syatems, they will get surpassed as the "King" of multi-tools.
That is because LTG thinks they are untouchable, invincible & the "brand" is enough to keep them on top...even if they ignore the people who got them there & are marketing to a clientele who did not....
Wife and I have a total of 6 leathermans including the wave and surge.
We just got a fake wave each (bibury). The bibury takes normal bits and as far as I can tell at least 95% as good as the wave. They cost $30, not $100.
You really are the GOAT! This was a fantastic overview and your knowledge of past and current line up is incredible. 🎉
I appreciate that! Thanks bro!
Quality has vanished as a priority, even the accessories are in decline. As an example I have 2 large MOLLE sheathes purchase 10 years apart direct from Leatherman. The original full ballistic nylon construction and still going strong, the new pouch is ballistic nylon on the flap and loops. The pouch is made from some cheap stiff low grade material that actually makes a crinkling sound as you push your multitool into it.
Get the basics right or loose your customers. In the UK we pay a premium for everything US made so for a Surge you are looking at $200.
How's the coating on the bibury black and silver 31 and 1 if your using it of course holding up was thinking of a add to cart 😊
It's not bad at all. If I was getting a surge Clone, that is the one I would get.
Any recommendations for 4mm bit kits to supplement/upgrade the stock Roxon one?
Wiha is #1 on 4mm bits.
Brand loyalty is the real reason Leatherman is like this
Brand loyalty is the real reason the US is like this
It hurts to see leatherman being so stubborn and greedy and never listent to the community of users AMAZING
The same people that put them on the map... "pride before the fall"....
Hurts...... you need help
Leatherman CEO is sleeping .......
Hope Leatherman can figure it out.
Get the Goat & Nextool and Bob's your uncle.! We don't own a Leatherman, only generics & modded. It beats Leatherman anytime. It's a multitool, it doesn't need to be perfect, it just need to do the job. Great vid Maestro. Cheers from Australia.
Man, I was so dissapointed with the GOAT tool. Wire cutters are worthless, one of the outer tool positions doesn't even lock. I haven't even carried yet and I'm not even sure if I want to bother pursuing a warranty claim.
Leatherman and Victorinox both are resting on their laurels. Both have made "the best" at one time or another but both have stopped there and seem to expect to stay the best forever. I broke down and built a heavily modified Supertool 300 because I just wasn't happy with the tool layout from any brand, and while a modular tool may be a viable solution at some point, right now none of the big brands are getting any more of my money until I see things change. Leatherman seem to have gone all in with the Free technology thing and I can't stand the magnetic closure gimmick and honestly a Magnacut blade just isn't enough to win me over when I also own about 75 high end knives that I also carry everyday. I truly believe Leatherman are on their way to being the Buck/Case brand of the multitool world where they make variation of their classic winners but are ultimately surpassed by new brands that innovate more.
The tale you told looks quite similar to that of flashlights: American Maglite, then, Chinese excelence brands like Fenix, Olight, etc. At least, you Americans have a national reason for supporting a brand name. For us Europeans, this is just an issue of value for money. Thank you for your enlightening report.
Fenix olight still overpriced. Sofirn, wurkkos, emissar etc offer better lights with wayyy more options for a cheaper price.
Leatherman should make non locking version of the wave and rebar, two great tools that we can't EDC on the UK because of prohibitive laws, and they should do the same with the surge but with a slightly shorter blade, victorinox should make non versions of the Swiss tool, sog really, really should make s non locking power pint, One of my favourite tools as an old gerber with retractable pliers, but I can actually put in my pocket without worrying about 5 years in prison because it doesn't lock.
Any multi tool company's please make tools with pliers, NON locking knife, no knife is no good, saw, tin/bottle openers, awl, and screwdrivers, maybe a file and scissors, Is that really to much to ask for?
I'm telling you, a wave with a non locking knife will do really well in the UK
I've carried a Leatherman since I was about 17 years old. Im now 38 and I started carrying a clone about 6-7 months ago and I have the Roxon Flex on the way. (well its sitting in irvine waiting to ship) I have a soft spot for Leatherman but $30 for a surge clone that has worked perfectly for 6 months so far, I can't justify buying another Leatherman unless they do something dramatic.
I carry my large heavy P4 Free but have to confess the serrated blade is really wanting in grind and quality. I like the knife blade ok and the blade/tool lock and deployment is nice. For the price i think its, well, overpriced. Theres just things about materials and QC that could be better. I wont even go into how disappointed i am that the affordable old Squirts were discontinued. My old Supertool 200 is too hard to use and Ill be looking at something else to replace it.
Instead of a Leatherman Wave or Surge, I went with the Arc. That's my daily carry. I bought an adapter that allows me to use standard 1/4" bits. I have access to all my tools with it closed using one hand (open and close).
I use a Leatherman Skeletool when I'm ultralight backpacking. I use the bits I got with the Arc with it.
When I'm camping/Bushcrafting I use a Gerber Dual Force. I might have considered a Crunch, but Leatherman stopped selling it.
I have the dl30 and like it a lot. A leatherman here in Brazil is an absurdly expensive price
I'm really liking Nextool for small-medium sized multitools. In quality, better than Gerber but below Leatherman.
Bought 4 Bibury 21-in-1 multitools after watching some of the previous videos here - my son's love theirs, the guys at work have started buying them, and it's been my daily driver and it's amazing how many times i've used it and the bits at home and work and have bought a couple of the other clones from Bibury.
Leatherman is just selling the brand name at a markup at this point.
I'll tell you who made a great everyday multi-tool. That was Schrade when they combined with Vise-Grip and made “The Toolbox.” Knife blade Screwdriver Vise grips and wire cutting. If you need more than that. Your going back to the work shop anyway.
Pics?? I don't know if I've seen that one
I had a Leatherman add pop up on Facebook. It was apparent that the entire add was marketing their tools as a lifestyle brand for hipsters, not for the working man.
are you talking about the ad where some guy has cacti stuck on his arm?
@@AS-lm2yv There were several different people featured in the ad. I think you could probably guess their political and social views fairly accurately. I don't recall that particular individual, but it's possible he was in it.
@@davidvolsky7713 alright, I mean nothing bad at all about being liberal but yeah there wasn't a lot of working in that ad
I agree that the quality of Leatherman can’t be beat. As far as being King, I’m not sure on that one. It depends on what you’re using the tool for. Being a mechanic, I have found an OHT tool to be the better option. I have used gerber for years due to the OHT function. Is the Leatherman OHT being replaced with a similar tool? I know it has been discontinued.
Any recommendations for a Crescent wrench based multitool?
Hmm, not sure... what about the irwin vicegrip tool?
@@maxlvledc seems like an opening in the market.
I wish I was around for the spyderco spyderench or gruppie from CRKT.
I carried a Leatherman sidekick as my EDC for the better part of 10 years. It's a great little light duty tool with a decent toolset. There's no way it's worth $70. I've since upgraded to a free P2 (swapped for a better blade) but that sidekick still rides around in my get home bag.
Love love my Leatherman. But i hate the bits. If they would switch to normal quoter bit socket it would be Awesome!
Hey man. Can you do a review video on the Peter McKinnon Camera Tool? It’s a screwdriver designed for cameras but has unique functionality and I would love to hear your thoughts on it
I can't get ahold of one lols
@@maxlvledc Unfortunate but thank you for reply
Im starting to get tempted by modding Victorinox SAKs, do you have experience on this? I would really like to experiment but I need a little bit of advice to begin.
I do, but it's not very easy.
@@maxlvledc I think replacing brass rods with screws makes it easier.
@@danielorozco1728 harder than it sounds, I ended up using treaded m2.5 brass rods to make a hybrid..it worked but was time consuming. You can also always start with an ali express kit
@@maxlvledc I know I asking too many questions but what was the difficult part of installing screws?
I am not a Leatherman guy but even I am rooting for Leatherman to step up their game because without serious competition the other big competitors (looking at Victorinox here) also have no motivation to improve their products.
The sad thing is that these are really simple changes they could make to improve their product line. Same goes for victorinox and some of the toolsets on their knives and the lack of new designs. Blockbuster, BlackBerry, Kodak….. there are a lot of examples of what happens when you sit back and ride the name you’ve created for yourself until one day your just a memory.
A wingman with a bit driver, wood saw and external serrated knife-scissors.
Leatherman want to known as the "premium" brand and price themselves that way. But I chose to go the clone route, because of the price. I can beat them up without hesitation and because I can use standard bits I don't fear breaking them. If Leatherman lowered the price, a lot of thier tools would look better. For instance, I found a clip strip of Revs in the clearance section of a Home Depot, for $6 a piece. For $36 I got 6 of them. At that price I EDC the REV, when most people skip over it. I replaced my Victorinox with it.
Until these tools put a proper pocket clip attachment Leatherman still beats them for me. I'm speaking mostly in regards to the surge clones. Also even though the Leatherman bits aren't ideal I can carry more options in a smaller package
Even the Sr product manager tells you to use the ferro rod wrong.. They don't understand their market and are probably getting ideas from instagram rather than real life.
And their prices are a sign of a failing business rather than increases in quality.
any way you could think of to transplant a full sized bit holder into a wave? asking for a friend
Yes, Eric makes one on shapeways
Search "metro grade goods"
@@maxlvledc thanks mate, great videos by the way!
Got a new surge to replace old user and the large flat head chipped and was shot right away. I’m a knife maker so I just fixed it and it looks like new but what if I didn’t know how to grind? Steel is not same hardness or temper is shit. Pick one And the wire cutters on my arc were shit. I got one for Christmas as it’s all i wanted and I switched them right away w an old tools cutters. Fixed.
Personally I used leatherman for years. I even received one for finishing a job as a ironworker.
But they lost me after the crunch with the bits.
Now I don't believe these corporations care about anything other then money.
The ARC is ridiculous $200+ because of a blade steel.
America is being destroyed from within with greed from these companies. They want top dollar but quality is barely adequate. A $200 multi tool and its plyer head has problems. That is beyond lazy designing.
How long before people stop buy American be of it not meaning what it used to.
Hard to have pride in anything anymore.
I feel this....a lot
I carry a leatherman 300 everyday, that said it is mostly just for the pliers. Every time I have to use the tools I am unhappy. I also carry the Milwaukee razor back that has the 1/4 bit holder, I use it so much in my day to day it has become a daily carry over a thousand dollars worth of pocket knives. It is just so quick and having a spare blade, too hard not to be my go to pocket clip knife
I've broken several pliers on Leatherman over the years. Never broken any of my Gerbers. If you could take the Leatherman system and build them with Gerber quality, you'd have a good tool.
I agree with everything said is this video, but one important factor to consider is that no reviews mention the resale value of the leatherman MT’s, which in many case you could sale your used 10 year old leatherman potentially for same price you paid, and in some cases much more thatn that. Can it be done with any of the clones? No you can’t. That is the major problem for the clones, and reason why many of us will still buy Leathermans.
You're definitely right.
@@maxlvledc I disagree. I would imagine that VERY few of us watching your vids, would consider the resale value of a multitool in the purchase calculus. I'd guess that MOST of us want the tool that works best for our individual need or work, resale value be damned.
We MIGHT consider the value of some of the parts we could cannibalize from it... YMMV...
@CharlesHeller resell is an important metric to determine how a tool is perceived in the marketplace. It's an indicator of both brand and product.
@@maxlvledc Well said, that’s a huge financial factor that can’t just be ignored even for small investments. Say I bought a new Bolster for $35 and want to upgrade to a Wave, I could sell it for $45 and put towards the upgraded MT, that’s awesome. If one day I change my hobby interests, I could sale the collection and buy Ham radios. I love Maxlvledc videos and bought many MT’s including clones and flashlights based on the reviews, as a designer myself (not for MTs) I always appreciated the open minded real world end user critiques which is immensely useful for the community and influence for manufacturers.
@@maxlvledc I suppose if you look at it holistically rather than selfishly, you have a point. I wasn't thinking from a "value to the marketplace" perspective, but a "value to me" perspective. Like I said, YMMV...
I like how you said Leatherman would be the "Leader", while you also said that you carry a Victorinox most of the days.
Personally, I watch your Videos because I am from Europe, so while Leatherman is a thing here, it's basically often even more expensive than the Victorinox stuff (Actually, it's always more expensive than Victorinox here in Germany). My personal expierences with Leatherman Stuff is often just somebody claims it is better than the Victorinox Stuff and then he breaks it and asking me for my Victorinox. I also dislike their Bit Solution.
The modular ones are interessting and I consider a Goat but I am still not convinced. Maybe *if* my Victorinox someday breaks.
It's good to start the conversation, the mx clip is no joke.
I tried to use Leatherman Surge at work, but it draws too much attention from customers. Since then Wiha all the way, no questions asked.
Give it to me straight. What budget multitool should I buy. Preferably has a sheath that carries at least few commonly used bits.
Hmm, go with a surge Clone. If you can handle the weight, they are amazing
@@maxlvledc thanks! Should be fine with the weight being that I go about 280 unfortunately lol. Thanks!
This vid was extremely informative and I really like how you didnt pull any punches. A great honest tell. Thanks for sharing🙂
Lets not forget add 30-40% fof the Leatherman price outside the US. In which case even Victrinox pretty much out does them easily.
I really want Victorinox to come out with some new more innovative models. Their quality is sweet
I disagree about the Leatherman bits being inherently worse than standard bits. They allow for a slimmer tool or a tool with room for more implements.
The problem is implementation. They should be no more than $20 or 15 for a "common bits" half pack, be made of a harder steel, and should be on virtually every hardware store shelf.
I think comments from this channel are fair. Totally agree that if an individual common can knock down a company as Leatherman, the blame should be on its legacy rather than that individual.
Any mt wiith tools on the inside is a big no go for me. I rock the victorinox swsstool spirit x, but i want something more like the leatherman arc, just cheaper (like half the price)
I just stumbled on this video, I can tell that you care about this brand, and it was your favorite for a very long time... but now you're having some doubts, it seems. Well, take notes here, they actually teach this at universities in their marketing classes - In order to keep selling your products, you need to keep the customers happy enough that they keep buying from you, but keep a certain level of dissatisfaction in order to make them buy your next product, which solves the unsolved problems that your previous product did not cover. And that's why, my friend, we're never getting that perfect set of tools on our Victorinox pocket knives and leathermans. I hope this brings some closure. But the hope is that the newcomers will show better options for less money, and as an end-user, I for one, welcome our new Chinese overlords =)
Thanks, that is interesting indeed.
is there any chance you could get in touch with tim at Leatherman? you've got a great channel and good reach and all valid points that you bring up. im British and i love leatherman as a brand and its exciting seeing these new tools coming but also sad that leatherman isnt keeping up with how fast things are changing
I believe TL sold out & just visits from time to time...even if he made his displeasure known & gave suggestions, I doubt he would be listened to...
I've tried, I get hit with the Customer service wall.
Is there one there cutter instead of plier.
Small ones yes. Try roxon KS2E or nextool mini sailor scissor
Leatherman needs to get their prices under control. If I lose my leatherman it's no longer a no brainer to get another one. Now I look around at what else is out there.
Mostly agree; however, the serrated blade is not expendable! I could do without the bit driver. The bits fall out and get lost.
Leatherman's quality certainly is sub-par, lately.
As for the Sidekick, I prefer the Wingman. The Sidekick's toolset is less suited to my needs. I do not need a tiny saw or a tiny serrated blade, but do need a scissors and a package opener. The Wingman has a serrated blade, scissors, and package opener. All things considered, the Wingman has a more useful toolset.
Leatherman seems intent on NOT building good multi-tools. Many of their implements have decreased in quality and usability over the years. The hard wire cutters is likely an example with which most people would agree, but every single implement has gotten worse. Then there is the implement selection for any given tool. This, too, has gotten worse. Not only do the clones have better implements and better selection, their quality and implementation are getting close. Leatherman's implement selection and quality are to bad, I would have to carry multiple multi-tools, just to get the function I need. It is actually easier and better to carry dedicated implements.
Leatherman's new philosophy is low quality, high prices, limited function, and lack of availability. Leatherman has forgotten the purpose of the multi-tool. Their new model is the nonetool. This is spreading to their entire lineup.
If you like the wingman, try the curl..it's awesome
@@maxlvledc I'm not a fan of that style of scissors, or of the bit driver. It is missing a serrated blade.
The Curl has the file and the wire stripper going for it. The PE blade profile is OK. Everything else was at best mediochre.
This rather highlights an issue: something that one of us thinks is great, the other one may not.
I need pliers for things like adjusting steering linkages, or replacing faucets and drains. Needle-nose pliers do not work for this. Leatherman's pliers are not precision implements. This is the only way I would carry needle-nose pliers. Yes, I use them, mostly for bending wire.
I need scissors for things like cutting tarps and composite wallboard. Flimsy, tiny scissors will not do this.
I need a serrated blade for things like cutting rope and other fibrous materials, sometimes for slicing bread or tomatoes. Many plastics require either a saw or a serrated blade to cut them. A saw makes a messy, risky cutting implement. I have cut various belts with a single swipe. A PE blade will not do these things.
I need a package opener for opening that cursed blister packaging. Most other blades are terrible at this.
I need a file for removing burs, sometimes for alignment or sharpening. Yes, I have used the file on my fingernails. The single-cut file is utterly useless. Diamond and cross-cut only.
I need a wire stripper for stripping various sizes of wire. Only the V-notch works consistently.
I need to cut zip-ties. No gut-hook, scissors, knife, or cutters will do the job properly.
I need wire cutters, mostly for cutting woven wire, barb'-wire, or ear tags. Bypass cutters work great. Anvil cutters, not so much.
I need the clip-point blade for butchering and flaying. I have not found any other blade type anywhere near as efficient. Yes, the PE blade is used for slicing apples, and other food tasks.
I need a draw-cut edge for precision work. That should not require an explanation.
Sure, I do need a saw on occasion, but a 3" saw does not cut a 10" tree worth a darn. I use a saw I made myself. The job typically takes about 5 minutes.
I have made holes in belts with the awl, but mostly use it for breaking windows.
Leatherman has no suitable pry tool.
Leatherman's drivers are almost useless. The design, implementation, materials, and quality are all sub-par. No point in using them. So, why are they wasting weight and space on them?
My multi-tool comprises the tools I am not willing to carry individually. Tracking usage over the last 3 years, my multi-tool only gets used about 17.5 times a week, on average. Some of the implements on it could go months without use; some will never be used.
What you think is idiocy may be exit strategy. Tim is around 80 now, why not cut product lineup and investments, keep and launch new high margin products such as Arc, cut costs, and trade market share for harvesting cash for his grandchildren?
If LM wants to survive the strategy should be absolutely different.
The last time I thought a Leatherman was cool is when they were first becoming really popular when I was a little kid and my dad had one… now they’re like the kids toy version of a multitool and cost as much as a custom made tool with 0% of the same quality…. Makes me sad it seems like if all they do is make “tools” then why not make them correctly or atleast more durable
This video is absolutely fantastic, not only for those who are thinking of buying their first tool but for those who enjoy watching all your videos like me
Love your tone in this one. Completely agree.
qc on the cheaper tools can be an issue. I have the shall and the blade wobbles, not bad enough to not use it, but it shouldn't wobble. The non-diamond sides of the file are completely useless. But it's also $85-$90 cheaper, so it's still worth it. You're spot on about replacing the serrated blade with a large scissors and then putting in an awl.
Blade steel to a certain extent is a nothing burger, there are Victorinox that are still going strong after 40 plus years of use. There is a video showing how naff leathermans are, here has a Victorinox multi tool his dad bought him as a teenager that he carried even for work when he’s was older. He then tried a leatherman after 2 years it’s rotted and stained, the Victorinox looks better after 20 plus years.
So many people have to adjust a brand new leatherman, the quality and quality control are actually awful, 25 year warranty 🤦🏻♂️ Victorinox has a lifetime warranty.
Strop regularly and sharpening becomes an extremely rare event, unless you abuse it.
Reminds me of what happened to Maglite. Didn't innovate, got complacent with past successes, next thing you know they're obsolete and irrelevant.
Everything you said was right on point.
I agree, Leatherman is slipping, I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the affordable options now available
Excellent video, wonder where Leatherman goes from here 🤔
I just bought a Rebar and I'm pretty disgusted with it. I've spent hours trying to break it in just so it's usable. The tools rub each other and grind. The edges are sharp, everything is stupid hard to open. In contrast my Gerber Dual Force is amazing, my Truss is fine too but too cheap to take seriously. My Bibury Surge ripoff is fantastic but we all know the cheap steel won't hold up. My SOGs are okay but not edc material. Guess I'm carrying a Gerber still.