When you switch to larger or smaller tire diameter, you should adjust the bikes suspension height, not to be mixed up with sag. For the rear you need to remove the shock and adjust the over all length, measure it eye to eye. For the front, loosen the triple clamps and measure from the lower triple clamp to the middle of the front axle. For instance if you put a 180/55/17 (641mm always measure the diameter) vs a 200/60/17 (658mm diameter) You subtract 658-641=17mm then you divide that 17mm in half which is 8.5mm. This is the number you lower the rear of the motorcycle. If not the bike will be unstable and twitchy. Same thing with front tires! Anytime you change geometry your chicken strips or contact patch changes. All tire manufactors have different diameters, pirelli and dunlop are pretty close to each other.
Yup all good advice - goes more into a suspension setup topic but helpful to think about it . I’m running the moto America bmw factory setup for bike geometry
@@MonoMoto I was actually addressing your issue with the bike feeling nervous on the taller pirelli vs the regular. I dont know much about the bmw rr suspension settings, from what I believe you can only adjust sag/compression/rebound but you cant adjust ride height. If you didnt adjust the forks or the rear shock for the tire, putting on tall tires will make the bike feel as you put it nervous. If you plan on running that same tall tire I would shorten the overall rear shock length to 5mm less, and forks 3mm lower. Your bike would feel more stable on the taller tires. For my street bike i own a GS and on that you can adjust rear shock ride height. But my r6 racebike has aftermarket suspension, aftermarket is full of adjustments.I would hire a professional suspension tuner in your area, preferably track side. The faster you get as a rider, these little minor adjustments make huge differences in lap times and being more comfortable on the bike allowing you to push faster with more confidence.
That's what I meant with factory race setup. It's the setup the race teams in moto america use. On my race bike I have fully adjustable Ohlins suspension front and rear. The damping front and rear was re-shimmed to my bike and riding style. The front and rear suspension travel were stretched by 10mm, swing arm pivot was changed and swing arm length was also addressed, new gearing and chain conversion is then the last bit that actually helps the geometry by changing on how the chain force acts on the suspension 😁 All good advice but am a few steps ahead of this 🙃 Running slow race pace / pointy end of the fast group.
For the 120 vs 125 - they do have a different profile and will always feel different the wsbk tire steers quicker due to the steeper profile , but it’s a bit less stable at lean.
Does Pirelli advertise "operating" temperatures? You mention the SC1 and SC2 needs to be at a higher temperature to function properly, I'm interested in that operating temperature, including SC3? The only temperature Pirelli advertises is "after warmers". So, on a cooler day (20C) and a track temperature of say 30C, if I were to choose a SC3 compound, what is the operating temperature? Obviously with those temperatures you'd probably run the pressures in the lower range of the advertised "after warmers" suggested pressures, but during a session, where should the operating temperature be? I'm surprised Pirelli doesn't advertise an operating temperature range for each compound.
This is a complex topic and it is not as easy as giving one number or even range. As one temp might work very well on track A it might yield very different results on track B. As a very simple rule, Diablo slicks should be heated to 80-90C. If you come into the hot pit take your tire temp right there. If it is significantly under 80C or a lot over 90C you need to make adjustments. Easiest way to tell if the tire is happy is watching the tire wear patterns.
The pirelli sc/x 0,1,2,3 (3=cold 2=medium/warm 1=warm 0=hot outdoor/asphalt temperature) I used the pirelli sc2 front and rear and had crash on them recently due to worn out tires. It lost traction within high speed curve by not even reaching the tire grip markers limit on them on 4th tander something between 40-50 laps aggressive riding. The tires realy doesn’t give good feedback , but the grip is insane when they are new. But you notice a drop already after 8-10 laps. Keep in mind to trash them at the right time , learn from my mistake only do 30-35 aggressive laps maximum. I like them but due my lack of experience I had a lowside. Glad that I’m fine just finical damages … 😂❤ will use them again for sure but trash them after 3/4 of trackday for sure!
Keep in mind that the traction depends on a lot of factors : suspension, pressure, tire temp, heat cycles, body movement etc. I run my rear slicks until the wear markers are essentially gone on the sides and had never a problem with good traction at A / fast group pace. Front I usually use for a handful of trackdays before replacing it.
@@MonoMoto you forgot to mention the engine brake, that’s destroying the tires much faster. Specially on Ducati’s, it’s common sense to use them in right temperature and pressures . Glad to hear that you drive less aggressive on them.
This is so helpful. I'm coming from the car and karting world and adding bikes into the mix. Will be getting a Panigale V4 S or SP2 and getting comfortable on the street tire first, but want to move to your suggested SC1 front and SC2 rear once I'm up to pace. Will be interesting to know 1) any suggested tire warmers (brand/model) to purchase, 2) target tire pressures to go aim for hot and what you would start with, and 3) what temp you would measure with a pyrometer on the top middle and inside of the tire. Very informative. I'm going to be at Bay Area tracks and know nobody in the bike world. Hope we can cross paths.
Awesome ! glad it helps. for 1 ) Woodcrafts are solid and simple. Capit and Chicken Hawks are fancy options. for 2 ) Talk to your local tire guy and start with a that. Pressure depends on the weather and your riding speed and skill but tire guy will have some good starting points Yes hopefully see you out there ! I'm recovering from a big crash right now but will be back next season.
I'm thinking of switching out my track Panigale V4 stock sizes for the WSB taller profiles. Any input? I spoke with a guy that rides an Aprilia RSV, that did the swap, he prefers the taller profile.
It steers differently. The tire is bigger and has more possible grip but what most people notice is that it steers a bit quicker than the normal pirellis
The SP has an SC0 outer. Shredded one in a single track session on a cold abrasive track. Run treaded SC2 rear and SC1 front on the road. Couple of corners and there good. Never felt them go off in the 20 years I have been running them. If the rear does slide when cold it is totally predictable and doesn't let go like some others. Tried the rosso's and being a heavy braker I wore the sides (where the grooves are) out in 2 canyon rides. SC1 front I get a 16-20 rides out of them. 12-14 out of a rear. They are 6-7 hour rides though. Road. Cold 33 front, 32 rear. Go down 1 PSI when above 28C.
Hi Armin, den SC2 kannste vergessen als Hinterreifen, haelt nicht lange und grippt wenig. Fuer Endurance gleich zum SC3. Ansonsten nur SC1 hinten. Vorne fahre ich bei allen temps den SC2 auf der BMW
Stimmt schon das wenn’s warm ist und der Fahrer schnell ist sc2 Front und sc1 hinten super ist. Das inverse setup ist aber Einsteiger freundlicher :) Lange nicht mehr von dir gehört ! Hoffe alles bestens .
I absolutely disagree with your statement between normal and large size. If the normal size tire is on, the bike turns much more aggressively and faster. It is much easier to maneuver, enter fast corners, and the bike is more agile during transitions. However, at max lean angle, the very edge of the tire does not contact the asphalt with the normal size but the big size yes. Personally, I do not like the big size size, despite the larger contact surface, corner entries are difficult, and transitions are slower at chicanes. The scx tire is as easily accessible as the others. And it has long been no longer a qualifying tyre. The qualifying is the SCQ, which is also used in shorter races. WSBK have little to do with these tires. They use numbered compounds there, with different numbered compounds on different tracks.
Disagreeing is totally ok as tire feel is a very subjective thing. What bike, pace and rear tire did you use with the 2 sized front tires? For the 125 front tire construction - the 120 has an even radius and the 125 has a sharper grade, which makes it tip in faster from the construction perspective. But I have no doubts that on your bike with your riding style the 120 might feel better. As the tire deforms under breaking it'll depend so much on your suspension and pressure and breaking on how turn in feels. When running the large size you need to re-adjust the geometry of the bike to make it feel good due to ride height changes and other factors the large size causes.
This is the exact video on Pirelli slicks that the internet needed, thank you for making it!
Thank you 🙏
Hands down the best video on tire compounds/construction/ durability. This helped me tremendously, thanks!!!
Class this video was needed fair play 👏👏👏
When you switch to larger or smaller tire diameter, you should adjust the bikes suspension height, not to be mixed up with sag. For the rear you need to remove the shock and adjust the over all length, measure it eye to eye. For the front, loosen the triple clamps and measure from the lower triple clamp to the middle of the front axle. For instance if you put a 180/55/17 (641mm always measure the diameter) vs a 200/60/17 (658mm diameter) You subtract 658-641=17mm then you divide that 17mm in half which is 8.5mm. This is the number you lower the rear of the motorcycle. If not the bike will be unstable and twitchy. Same thing with front tires! Anytime you change geometry your chicken strips or contact patch changes. All tire manufactors have different diameters, pirelli and dunlop are pretty close to each other.
Yup all good advice - goes more into a suspension setup topic but helpful to think about it .
I’m running the moto America bmw factory setup for bike geometry
@@MonoMoto I was actually addressing your issue with the bike feeling nervous on the taller pirelli vs the regular. I dont know much about the bmw rr suspension settings, from what I believe you can only adjust sag/compression/rebound but you cant adjust ride height. If you didnt adjust the forks or the rear shock for the tire, putting on tall tires will make the bike feel as you put it nervous. If you plan on running that same tall tire I would shorten the overall rear shock length to 5mm less, and forks 3mm lower. Your bike would feel more stable on the taller tires. For my street bike i own a GS and on that you can adjust rear shock ride height. But my r6 racebike has aftermarket suspension, aftermarket is full of adjustments.I would hire a professional suspension tuner in your area, preferably track side. The faster you get as a rider, these little minor adjustments make huge differences in lap times and being more comfortable on the bike allowing you to push faster with more confidence.
That's what I meant with factory race setup. It's the setup the race teams in moto america use. On my race bike I have fully adjustable Ohlins suspension front and rear. The damping front and rear was re-shimmed to my bike and riding style. The front and rear suspension travel were stretched by 10mm, swing arm pivot was changed and swing arm length was also addressed, new gearing and chain conversion is then the last bit that actually helps the geometry by changing on how the chain force acts on the suspension 😁
All good advice but am a few steps ahead of this 🙃
Running slow race pace / pointy end of the fast group.
For the 120 vs 125 - they do have a different profile and will always feel different the wsbk tire steers quicker due to the steeper profile , but it’s a bit less stable at lean.
Thanks a lot, man! This is the best video I have seen so far about Pirelli Slicks.
Thanks for the feedback. I made it because I also didn’t find anything solid out there . Please share the video 😀
Very informative! Great video
really good topic!
Thank you 🙏 wanted to add something different for a change :)
Just the information I was looking for 👊 thank you 🙏
Does Pirelli advertise "operating" temperatures? You mention the SC1 and SC2 needs to be at a higher temperature to function properly, I'm interested in that operating temperature, including SC3? The only temperature Pirelli advertises is "after warmers". So, on a cooler day (20C) and a track temperature of say 30C, if I were to choose a SC3 compound, what is the operating temperature? Obviously with those temperatures you'd probably run the pressures in the lower range of the advertised "after warmers" suggested pressures, but during a session, where should the operating temperature be? I'm surprised Pirelli doesn't advertise an operating temperature range for each compound.
This is a complex topic and it is not as easy as giving one number or even range. As one temp might work very well on track A it might yield very different results on track B. As a very simple rule, Diablo slicks should be heated to 80-90C. If you come into the hot pit take your tire temp right there. If it is significantly under 80C or a lot over 90C you need to make adjustments. Easiest way to tell if the tire is happy is watching the tire wear patterns.
Me- running a flipped sc3 on my rear rn 😁
Good way to safe money but don’t tell it to the Pirelli engineers 😅
The pirelli sc/x 0,1,2,3 (3=cold 2=medium/warm 1=warm 0=hot outdoor/asphalt temperature) I used the pirelli sc2 front and rear and had crash on them recently due to worn out tires. It lost traction within high speed curve by not even reaching the tire grip markers limit on them on 4th tander something between 40-50 laps aggressive riding. The tires realy doesn’t give good feedback , but the grip is insane when they are new. But you notice a drop already after 8-10 laps. Keep in mind to trash them at the right time , learn from my mistake only do 30-35 aggressive laps maximum. I like them but due my lack of experience I had a lowside. Glad that I’m fine just finical damages … 😂❤ will use them again for sure but trash them after 3/4 of trackday for sure!
Keep in mind that the traction depends on a lot of factors : suspension, pressure, tire temp, heat cycles, body movement etc.
I run my rear slicks until the wear markers are essentially gone on the sides and had never a problem with good traction at A / fast group pace. Front I usually use for a handful of trackdays before replacing it.
@@MonoMoto you forgot to mention the engine brake, that’s destroying the tires much faster. Specially on Ducati’s, it’s common sense to use them in right temperature and pressures . Glad to hear that you drive less aggressive on them.
This is so helpful. I'm coming from the car and karting world and adding bikes into the mix. Will be getting a Panigale V4 S or SP2 and getting comfortable on the street tire first, but want to move to your suggested SC1 front and SC2 rear once I'm up to pace. Will be interesting to know 1) any suggested tire warmers (brand/model) to purchase, 2) target tire pressures to go aim for hot and what you would start with, and 3) what temp you would measure with a pyrometer on the top middle and inside of the tire. Very informative. I'm going to be at Bay Area tracks and know nobody in the bike world. Hope we can cross paths.
Awesome ! glad it helps.
for 1 ) Woodcrafts are solid and simple. Capit and Chicken Hawks are fancy options.
for 2 ) Talk to your local tire guy and start with a that. Pressure depends on the weather and your riding speed and skill but tire guy will have some good starting points
Yes hopefully see you out there ! I'm recovering from a big crash right now but will be back next season.
@@MonoMoto oh sorry to hear about the crash hope the recovery is smooth. Look forward to meeting next season.
I'm thinking of switching out my track Panigale V4 stock sizes for the WSB taller profiles. Any input? I spoke with a guy that rides an Aprilia RSV, that did the swap, he prefers the taller profile.
It steers differently. The tire is bigger and has more possible grip but what most people notice is that it steers a bit quicker than the normal pirellis
The SP has an SC0 outer. Shredded one in a single track session on a cold abrasive track. Run treaded SC2 rear and SC1 front on the road. Couple of corners and there good. Never felt them go off in the 20 years I have been running them. If the rear does slide when cold it is totally predictable and doesn't let go like some others. Tried the rosso's and being a heavy braker I wore the sides (where the grooves are) out in 2 canyon rides. SC1 front I get a 16-20 rides out of them. 12-14 out of a rear.
They are 6-7 hour rides though.
Road. Cold 33 front, 32 rear. Go down 1 PSI when above 28C.
Hi Armin, den SC2 kannste vergessen als Hinterreifen, haelt nicht lange und grippt wenig. Fuer Endurance gleich zum SC3. Ansonsten nur SC1 hinten. Vorne fahre ich bei allen temps den SC2 auf der BMW
Stimmt schon das wenn’s warm ist und der Fahrer schnell ist sc2 Front und sc1 hinten super ist. Das inverse setup ist aber Einsteiger freundlicher :)
Lange nicht mehr von dir gehört ! Hoffe alles bestens .
I absolutely disagree with your statement between normal and large size. If the normal size tire is on, the bike turns much more aggressively and faster. It is much easier to maneuver, enter fast corners, and the bike is more agile during transitions. However, at max lean angle, the very edge of the tire does not contact the asphalt with the normal size but the big size yes. Personally, I do not like the big size size, despite the larger contact surface, corner entries are difficult, and transitions are slower at chicanes. The scx tire is as easily accessible as the others. And it has long been no longer a qualifying tyre. The qualifying is the SCQ, which is also used in shorter races. WSBK have little to do with these tires. They use numbered compounds there, with different numbered compounds on different tracks.
Disagreeing is totally ok as tire feel is a very subjective thing. What bike, pace and rear tire did you use with the 2 sized front tires?
For the 125 front tire construction - the 120 has an even radius and the 125 has a sharper grade, which makes it tip in faster from the construction perspective. But I have no doubts that on your bike with your riding style the 120 might feel better. As the tire deforms under breaking it'll depend so much on your suspension and pressure and breaking on how turn in feels. When running the large size you need to re-adjust the geometry of the bike to make it feel good due to ride height changes and other factors the large size causes.