Thanks! I just did my first watch augmentation. I put a sapphire crystal on an old cheap seiko. Really dressed it up since the original was plastic. Everybody thinks it looks high end now.
Dear Bill, Your videos about do it yourself watchmaking demystify the subject of watch assembly. These videos further demonstrate how both aesthetic and functional design considerations are rooted first in the choice of movement and then in decisions related to the modification of the movement. This is essential horological knowledge for anyone who wants to develop their skills as a collector even if they are not necessarily going to move forward with hands on watchmaking projects. Your video provides a great deal of insight into the value proposition of various watches that feature non-inhouse movements. First, what is the cost factor of a particular movement to the watch manufacturer in relationship to the selling price of the watch? Second, is the movement essentially just dropped into the watch or are modifications being made? Third, what is the value of the modifications in relationship to the selling price of the watch? Doing such value proposition assessments is not an exact science but the example of comparing the Panarai to your homespun watch is a sobering exercise in comparative horological cost accounting. While artistry and design are intangibles not as readily subject to such a comparative cost analysis, having a nuts and bolts sense of the hardware cost of a watch is data that should be of both interest and genuine utility to watch collectors. Thank you for a great and thought provoking educational piece. I hope that you enjoy the Watch Time event in New York and I will look forward to viewing whatever video(s) you generate at the event. With much appreciation for all that you do, Howard
Hi Howard, the Show begins today, and I hope to get interviews with the most interesting watchmakers there and as many collectors as I can. May be late on Sunday with the video, but that's unavoidable...much more later! Cheers, Bill
One important detail about the dial, beyond the alignment with the movement sub seconds, is that the dial and case marry without any fitment issues. As important as the marriages of the movement and case, the movement and dial, is the case and dial. For those interested in building their own watch, search out what rookie mistakes others have made, because that information is as important as the set of instructions for building the watch. Once you realise how frustrating it is to put the hands on, or fit and cut the stem, good advice will be required.
Hey DIY, yes on the stem; no on the oil. Lubricating a watch is very touchy, and some watches require different kinds of lubricants for different parts of the same watch. For a first watch, an additional stem is a great idea, but leave the lubricants alone until you've got more experience. Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
For people attempting this, always cut longer on the stem and then cut again if you need to. You can't do anything about it if you cut it too short (speaking from experience :P).
Having the time, accumulating the tools, knowing how to finish the metal surfaces and putting them all together, $4895. But I do agree that putting one together yourself is so much fun :-)
Let me tell you something my friend. You inspired me to built that watch. Your video is super awesome with all the info need it. I just ordered the Dial, case and movement all for about $65. I will be following you and seeing more of your videos. Thank you so much.
Hi Juan, I'm glad to hear you made the investment ... get just the tools that you need, but get the best you can ... and be patient. The best part of making your own watch ... you learn about what really goes into some of these watches-especially those costings thousands made up of a steel case, an inexpensive movement and a band. Please let me know how your initial project goes! Kindest regards, Bill
After watching this video, I fell in love with the charm of homemade watches. Then, I started uploading videos of people making their own watches to TH-cam, and on November 11th, I will publish videos of people who assemble their own watches.
Let us know when you do Batayan. Sounds like an interesting project. You might also like to check out our DIY FB page, 'Pretentious Watchmakers.' Take care, Bill
Well, I agree, that in case of some high-end watches, the price is hard to justify. Then again, in case of others, the watch case and dials are the ones that actually justify the price. Like enamel dials or expencive metals used - those do not come cheap. What I'm trying to say is, that movement can, but may not be the main justification for the watch price.
You can ruin a great movement with a terrible dial. Here's a great example, Ipiloot: www.leinfelder-uhren.de/de/kollektionen/popart/ The movement is a UWD 33.1 by Marco Lang ... and they wrapped that dial around it! Take care and stay safe 😷
It's a custom watch,the idea is that you can do anythink you want,perhaps it makes sense for lots of people,you don't see the mouvemet much and for lot sof people accuracy isn't so luch of an issue,so the money is spent on the dial hands and case
12:40 fyi the black one is a flieger type dial, fliegers traditionally have no makings on them aside from the numbers, that includes the manufacturer logo not being printed.
Hi Bill, interesting video I have always wondered on panerai watches especially the ETA versions were the value for money lies a ETA movement a plane printed dial and a leather strap no wonder they are so commanly faked, when a watch movement is modefied they never tell you what has been done, if there was a watch maker on you tube revealing these so called modifications on movements then people would know exactly what they are getting for there money, and then the Wise's watch buyer would really be getting the best value for money.
Hi Marco, I like Panerai designs, even though it took a while to get used to the big crown guard, but after the PAM 318 scandal, I just didn't trust them. Anyway, now that I've been making my own watches, it's a lot easier to take a quick peek in the back and see what's going on. As collectors, we spend a lot on watches; there's no place for deception in the business, and we shouldn't put up with it. Take care, Bill
Glad to help, Chris. The main thing I got out of if is learning more about watches... and my long suffering relatives kept getting watch gifts! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Hi Bill all the parts have now arrived in the UK so will start the process of assembly the cost of all the parts including the movement a clone of the eta6497 came to £97 pounds
Great Lawrence...when you build it send me a picture. We'll have to start the Société des horlogers prétentieux like FP Journe did with the independent watchmakers. Cheers, Bill
Steve good question and the answer is not so good the first thing I did wrong was not buying a magnifying lamp so that I could clearly see secondly the cheap screwdrivers I bought were rubbish so after buying some decent equipment I made a start after fitting the dial and hands ,the small seconds hand at 6 was difficult, after removing the stem and fitting the movment into the case I refitted the the stem and the crown only to find the winding pinion had dropped out and never to be found again ,so now I have to either buy a pinion or a new movement, you learn by your mistakes so It's on hold for now .
I was thinking of trying to add an ETA to a dive case. And thought there has to be someone who has also thought of this as well. I found this video. I am amazed that there are not more people doing this or thinking of doing this. Buy The case crystal bezel of said watch style remove the movement and replace the movment. At least ir sounds plausible.
Ah, Seagull movements. Look, you really need a watchmaker to take it apart and service it, then put it back together. I just got one and it had no lubrication, even in the mainspring barrel or the arbour. There was plenty of dirt on the jewels on the main plate however. I hope it cleans up and I don't have to try and replace jewels, but they look pretty bad. I've already spent three hours on it (strip, inspect, clean) and I've got a lot more to go (inspect, adjust/repair, lubricate, assemble). It depends on which factory in which part of China they come from. By all means make a watch with a Chinese clone movement, but be aware that it's probably not meant to go straight into a case and be sold on high street. The Chinese are doing an outstanding job at manufacturing. Finishing and assembly however... The movements in those plastic cases with pretend hands on them are student movements. They are for learning on and you are expected to strip, clean, and lubricate them before you even think about putting them in a case. Even if you manage to get ETA 6497/6498 movements (ebauche) form Switzerland, they won't be lubricated because Swatch will expect you to polish, finish, assemble, and lubricate the movement in house. They will also be about four to eight times the price. I know $5000 for a Panerai seems a bit steep, but they did all of the manufacturing in-house, all of the above testing and assembly, the original dial design, original case design, and produced the whole thing to a high standard. Five grand per watch is about what I'd expect for that amount of work, personally. If I built a movement in-house (LOL) as well as the case and final assembly, my asking price would be about A$35,000. So.... can average Joe do this successfully? Well I've heard of ST36 movements coming from China properly lubricated and ready to install. I've just never seen one... I feel ya, but I also know just enough to be skeptical. A mechanical movement will last a hundred years plus with care and regular servicing and I believe this applies more now than it did in 1900 (but I have movements older than that). The problem is, an ST36 bought now can work great, but won't last more than a few years with no lubrication and with the factory dirt left in there. Seiko is looking pretty good, yeah?
Hey Chris, the Seagulls are great "practice" movements, and the ones I have practiced on are better than those you describe. Learning to lube on a Seagull will save you money in case one of the gears flies into the great black hole of watch parts! Join us on the "Pretentious Watchmakers" FB page! Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Yeah, I'm trying to figure out which automatic Seagull movement to get to practice on. ST1612 is very cheap and is roughly a copy of the Miyota 8216 (same but different maybe). TY2806 might also be the same movement but made in Tianjin. I'm tending more towards the ST2130 as it's a copy of the ETA 2824-2 so might be more useful at this stage. I found the Facebook group and hit join, but to be honest I really don't do much with Facebook usually. "Pretentious" probably suits me fine, but I did get to realise how deep I was into the Dunning Kruger effect today, so I'm not sure I qualify any longer ;-)
Many thanks Bill, bit of a change, but I may instead try to build a manual wind Flieger B WW2 pilot watch, black face, white sword hands and bronze case to make it look old - I need a big 44mm dial to suit my Fred Flintstone 8.25 inch wrists lol.@@watchartsci
I just cut out all the snobby ADs and BS and bought a 52.00 Parnis on AliExpress.It has the 6497 and looks like a Panerai.Ill let some D-Bag pay 25 Grand for basically the same Watch and I’ll put that Money into my next Car.You are enlightening.TY
Hey Echo, way to go! More fun and less money! If someone gets snobby with you ask them, 'Who made your watch?' and unless it's by Kari Voutilainen, Laurent Ferrier, Jean-Marc Wiederrecht , or some of the really high end independents; they don't know who made their mass-produced, overpriced tick-tock. Someone who really loves watches, whether it's by FP Journe or Sea-gull; they're going to want to hear your story of how you made your watch.(I've got plenty and they sometimes don't have Disney endings!) As your first effort, watch all the videos you can about working with the 6497, and remember the old carpenter's dictum, "Measure twice; cut once." Kindest regards, Bill
WatchArtSci Bill,TYVM For your reply!!!Yes I’m familiar with the 6497 as it’s in a Parnis Pilot I’ve had for a few Years.Great advice on the “who made your watch”Quip.I had a very rude AD Store Rep buying a Tudor that came with machine marks on the case.I ended up returning it 2 times before they got it correct.TY again.👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Hi Grizzly, I always start with the movement; then I find a case my movement will fit and a dial that fits the case. If I can, I buy the dial and hands together so that there a match between the style of the dial and the hands. But Step 1 for me is buy the movement. Take care, Bill
@@grizzlybexar8177 You want the movement to match the size of your case as much as possible. With a 48mm case, a nice big ETA 6498 or ST36 should do the trick. Kindest regards, Bill
I had a look at the P6000, from what I can see it is very different to the ETA6497. 1. Three days power reserve. 2. Totally different plate and bridge layout. 3. Made either in-house or possibly by Lefleurier(not using a clone of 6497). I would tend to think that designing and producing a new movement would make a watch much more expensive. Could anyone offer their thoughts? P.S. I'm not a Panerai fan. Don't have an opinion either way.
Hi Richard, there's a difference between a new movement with the same dimensions as another movement (like the ETA 6497-2) and a movement that merely copies a movement it intends to replace. The P6000 is not a clone of the 6497, but it does have similar dimensions so that it can replace the 6497 in certain size cases made for the 6497. Most likely, the P6000 was made at Richemont's ValFleurier, the group's movement manufacturer spread out, thusly: 1. Research and development in Neuchâtel 2. A modern prototyping and production facility in Buttes in the Val de Travers 3. Finishing and decoration in La Côte-aux-Fées at the Piaget facility. In this way, Richemont's brands can share in and have some control over the movements in their watches, and while several movements can be used in different brand watches (e.g., Piaget & Cartier), they can greatly reduce the unit costs of the movement and make modifications best reflecting the brand. Take care, bill
Fascinating, many thanks. I am so captivated that I want to try out this project, but am a beginner, so could you do a video showing how to put it all together, please.
My pleasure J Bloggs! Check this video out for a good step-by-step ( th-cam.com/video/rDfde-nmtKg/w-d-xo.html ) and here are a couple more that I did: th-cam.com/video/1Zf5Wsxle4M/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/hv8zGMIUd2o/w-d-xo.html ... also, during the pandemic, every morning at 0800 and afternoon at 1600 New York time (Eastern Daylight Time) during the pandemic, we'll have a live stream on this channel where we talk about making watches ... among everything else under the sun about watches. Take care, Bill
Learning. I do not know how much I would trust myself to have a watch to be 100 meters water resist, any mistake with assembly and my work would be 0 meter water resist.
My solution Fossil is to to keep my watch from getting wet. I wouldn't worry, though. The cases are easy to seal up with screw-on backs. Take care, Bill
Excellent video. Thinking about trying some DIY watch projects myself and your channel seems like a great resource. Does proper water resistance pose any particular challenge? How about putting together a watch with a quartz movement? What's your take on "hydro modding"?
Hi Lifragen, I keep my watches mostly away from water and swimming, but if you do plan to take your watch in the water, you need to have excellent seals. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Interesting video, thank you! I don't completely agree with you on the CW regulator necessitating a major re-design. Yes, it's more than just changing the shape of a bridge, but it probably can all be done on the dial side. Instead of having the hour wheel on top of the cannon pinion, it sits on a pin just under 12 o'clock. Maybe an intermediate wheel is needed between the minute wheel and hour wheel, but not much more than that. Unlike the seconds and minutes, the hours are not directly driven and therefore do not require any changes to the gear train layout.
Hi David, I would agree that moving the position of a hand-post on a dial is not the same as making a new movement from scratch. I have modified a 6497 to remove the post that holds the second hand, and while that operation was wholly from the dial-side, it also has implications for the back side (gear-side?). The seconds hand is on the fourth wheel on the 6497, and part of what holds the fourth wheel in position is the hand post extending into the dial. By removing most of the post, the fourth gear has less anchoring (there's no jewel pivot point on the dial side of the fourth gear on the 6497). On the other hand, moving the works so that the movement of the second hand shows up elsewhere on the dial is way beyond my watchmaking skills, such as they are. However, I do know that moving the post for any of the hands is more than a trivial task. You cannot just stack the second hand on top of the cannon pinion and expect it to work as a center seconds. The turning gear for the second hand must be moved so that there's a turning post for the seconds hand on top of the hour and minute hand, which means a change not only to the cannon pinion but also moving or linking the gear that turns the second hand. If your comment is in relation to my response to Brian's comment about the value of Panerai using the OP I or OP II movements (both ETA 6497-1s with the only modification to the post on the second hand on the OP I), you need to clarify that. The inexpensive Steinhart Nav B-Uhr 47 Titan A-Type Central Second with the 6497 and center seconds is not a modification on the order of adding a remontoir d'egalité to the movement, but it's more than removing the seconds post as Panerai has done on the OP I. -Let me switch gears here for a second. Since you seem to know your way around an ETA/Unitas 6497/8 and watchmaking, please give me your thoughts on the following: making a regulator from a standard ETA 6498. It would require one hand re-positioning-the hour hand from the cannon pinion to a sub-dial at 12 o'clock. This is not an original idea at all; I've seen it in a watch school project proposal and on the Chr. Ward Regulator using an ETA/Unitas 6498-1. Kindest regards, Bill
Thanks Bill for the great, i am now also embarking on making my first watch :D. I actually was thinking about the Panerai for a long time, and this episode just confirmed my fears, that Panerai simple watches, are not worth what is sold for, especially movement wise. So Thanks again for the great help :) Best, Abdul
@@stevebo8055 it is not going as planned, I bought 4 new vintage watches 😂 which I was not planning. But now I just have to start by buying a case, and then everything will Follow afterward.
sorry but how not ?? how can u say vc or parmigiani are but panerai not ? they all mostly insource their movements ... its all about the case and the design anyway ...
Idk if you still check these, but I am having a hard time searching this info. How do you determine the watch hand size length needed if your dial doesn't come with hands? This was a great video and was very informative.
Hey Frostshock, good question. Usually, I just get the hands paired with the dial. If there isn't a pairing, I just get the hands that are advertised in the same general area as the dial and case. Take care and stay safe, Bill 😷
Angel, I really don't know enough about pocket watches except the Unitas/ETA 6497/8 movement. Maybe when I learn more I'll be able. Take care and stay safe, Bill 😷
I once had the opportunity to consult on a buildings mechanical equipment. To my surprise in this building they made fashion garments. There was about 20 people working at sewing machines and I noticed every now and again that one of them would get up and go over to see somebody who would then unlock a safe like cupboard and give them a clothing label. It was obvious to anyone watching that the value of that product was in the label not necessarily the material.You could have put that label on any clothing and it would have increased its price but not value. It was all about the marketing that created the preceved value. As far as I know they weren't using gold thread. Understanding the movement used in a watch indicates to you the true quality and workmanship of the watch. it indicates to you if the watch has value because of craftsmanship or marketing. Understanding the base movement used in a watch is very important when considering the quality and the price you pay for the watch. This is necessary knowledge for anyone who wants to really understand watches. Your video points this out in detail. Thanks again for a great video.
Thanks Say It! That's a great allegory about the value of the label over the value of the product. We see that in watches, and if there's some way to marry the two-high quality recognized in the brand and high quality inside the watch-I think it's worth pursuing. Recently, I was chastised by a seller who was trying to sell a brand with a cheap movement ... if we're buying watches, we need to be on the buyer's side in these matters. Kindest regards, Bill
So many interesting items of note in this episode including some of the outrageous mark ups being asked. I have done several mods & enjoyed them immensely. Both improving & upgrading the "bones" of the donor original. I suppose my next step is to buy the components to put together my own vision of horological joy. Thanks for the advice & inspiration Bill.
My pleasure Peter. There's a group of us in a FaceBook page, "Pretentious Watchmakers" who are dedicated to creating our own watch but understand our limits but have fun anyway. Take care, Bill
@@ayoungtricknamedjim5498 You are assuming that I don't own a high horology watch? Would an 18kt gold Omega Seamaster deVille be considered high enough for you? How about a hand wound made to order watch that takes six months to be finished. Would that fit your idea of a "real" watch? I own both. Price does NOT necessarily decide the quality of a watch. There are a number of brands on the market that people pay WAY too much for, Rolex being one of them! Besides, I enjoy learning about how movements actually work & the difference between their designs. How to carry out repairs or upgrades myself & I can design almost anything my heart desires without paying thousands for something that may end up being a failure. I am currently rebuilding a 1969 King Seiko 7000/5625. Very high horology for it's time & a much better movement than the 6R31 being offered in the Anniversary edition currently being sold by Seiko. Life is for learning @A Young Trick Named Jim..... don't be a watch snob!
I found a guide of sorts that suggests getting a 6498 ETA movement to start with to learn watch making. This is a different one though, right? It seemed from a cursory search that the 6498 ETA movements were around $200 or more.
Praetor, the Chinese made Seagull 36xx clones of the 6497/8 are a lot less expensive ... around $30. It's better to make a $30 mistake than a $200 one. Then you'll see whether that's what you want to do or not. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci I went back and looked at what that guy said and he does mention clones too. I must've overlooked it. Thanks very much! The guy who wrote that guide does mention that he recommends the ETA because of its quality. He does also recommend a Quartz ETA movement (anything that starts with a 955) if you're strapped for cash. I was thinking that I might be able to justify the expense by using it as my own personal watch since I don't have one at the moment anyways. :) Either way, I'm definitely going to get one of them and try getting into this. I have been finding it very appealing so far! Thanks for the help!
@@watchartsci would you be able to suggest any other movements that are reliable and of good quality like the ETA 6498? They don't necessarily have to pocket watch size. Any size is fine as long as they aren't tiny.
@@watchartsci if you were able to point me in the direction of how to find something like that out myself, that would be greatly appreciated too. I don't know the names of any movements other than 6498 ETA, much less what is considered good quality or reliable.
The slytech is for Stalone who wore it in the movie Daylight , why the rarity they did not make a lot of of them, and it has nothing to do with the movement
Had a great time tonight at the party, and you're going to love this show! Great watchmakers and watches in the same room! See you tomorrow! Cheers, Bill
Fall Front, there's also a new project using base 2892-A2 movements ... automatic with date. Check out the "Step1" videos to get started. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Hi Bill, I hope you are well! Superb video as usual!! May I ask if you have any suggestions on how I could possibly get some of my watch designs actually made? And also what are your thoughts on the Longines (2016) Type A-7 1935? Nic
I have no idea, but it's a valid and good question. If you're designing dials, cases and hands, who can take those designs and make the necessary molds for the cases, plates with feet for the dials and the hands. If anyone know let Watch Crazy know. For your part WC, keep digging! Cheers, Bill
@@vicg5323 One of the things you have to check is the initial lubrication. Sometime (so it was rumored) that some of the Sea Gull (Chinese) movements were shipped without lubrication. However, I've never bothered checking, and I've had no problems with several of the clones I've had (mainly clones of ETA 6497/98) by Sea Gull. When you first put a watch together, spend as little as possible and make sure that the case, dial and movement fit together. Great deal of satisfaction in creating your own watch and you'll learn a lot. I need to take a course in the lubrication process...not rocket science, but it has to be done right. I plan on using the excellent service references you can find online originally by ETA. Take care, Bill
How do you get the movement rings?? I got the same setup as you basically but it didn’t come with a ring and nobody sells one!!! This is so frustrating because its all ready but moves around in the case!!!
FYI: The Sly Tech version is named after the actor Sylvester (Sly) Stone who brought Panerai back into the spotlight using them in his movies. So Panerai charges more fire the name. Whoops doo doo.
@@watchartsci I'm not Bill and i'm probably late, but here's one: before assembly, find some local company that does laser engraving and engrave your brand on the dial. And a reference number :-)
@@blxo1589 That was 4 years ago, but in general this link should help: www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20220822035459&SearchText=watch+movements+for+ETA+6498&spm=a2g0o.home.1000002.0www.aliexpress.com/wholesale? Good hunting! Take care, Bill
Hi Bill, thank you for the amazing video! I had a weird question, I noticed that watchmakers align all the hours, seconds and min hands at the 12 o'clock prior of it going to the case, is there a reason why they need to be aligned that way or could we align them at different times assuming they all land on the markers accurately, for example instead of 12:00:00 you align them 03:30:45 hope I make sense. looking forward for more video from your channel!
Will, I tend to align the hour hand at 12 and the minute hand at 3. The second hand is 'wherever.' When setting the hands, they often slip; so if you have them spot on a certain time, you can nudge them into place... both at 12 might be tricky since one hand will cover the others. Check some rules about hand-setting; mine are based on what I had in a watchmaking course...that was a few years ago. Take care, Bill
Aligning the hands in other positions makes it difficult to ensure the angles of the hours/minutes are all in alignment. Put it this way, to align the hands at 3:30:45 would mean that the hour hand would need to be exactly midway between the 3 and the 4 whereas the minute hand is at the 6. Where is that midpoint? Hard to tell. Why does it need to be exact? Because you want the hour hand to be exactly at the hour when the minute hand touches the 12. Otherwise, you end up with the infamous misaligned Ming hands on the 1709 series (although that particular issue arose for a different reason, the ending result ends up being similar).
Hi Li Qun, check out AliExpress: www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003297134384.html?_randl_currency=USD&_randl_shipto=US&src=google&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=708-803-3821&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&albagn=888888&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&albcp=9758436840&albag=102219139800&trgt=1478071114056&crea=en1005003297134384&netw=u&device=c&albpg=1478071114056&albpd=en1005003297134384&gclid=Cj0KCQiAxoiQBhCRARIsAPsvo-xu187IY0ipuUpxGlH5Chgj9nj-7hL_qVD9Tu1eGYpBW5frFJgqCcoaAm6CEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&aff_fcid=6ce3908c2b25482c82e19ec5133786a4-1644319767644-01128-UneMJZVf&aff_fsk=UneMJZVf&aff_platform=aaf&sk=UneMJZVf&aff_trace_key=6ce3908c2b25482c82e19ec5133786a4-1644319767644-01128-UneMJZVf&terminal_id=f27274d521f446ebab517306065744eb Take care, Bill
@@liqun8360 That's the first I've heard that. Your friend may have had an exceptional case. I recently bought a dial through AliExpress and had no problem at all. Take care, Bill
Hey Bill, funny enough I am assembling my first watch this weekend using the black dial you showed and an st 36. It really has been a massive amount of fun so far and much cheaper (easier to pacify your wife) than buying a proper watch. Although there are some amazing deals on Jaquet Droz and Parmigiani Fluerier at the moment, so I won’t be able to resist for long!
Hi Graham, making watches is a hoot! Like you, I've still had to lash myself to the mast as I keep finding the sirens of great deals for great watches. However, when I'm working on a watch it's great fun. I received a ST36 with a swan's neck regulator. You have to use a microscopic screwdriver to turn the adjustment screw, and through my 4X loupe, it looked like I was using a telephone pole on the screw. I learned that the orange-top screwdriver is the smallest...not the black-top one I was using. I got the timing to -3 seconds from +24 seconds pushing the pointer on the regulator. Since ±5 is considered excellent, I was pretty happy with the progress. Also, I discovered that the ETA 6497-2 and the ETA 6493-2 run at 21,600 (3Hz) instead of 18,000 mph like the ETA 6497-1 and ETA 6498-1. My ST36 was clocking at 21,600; so I'm assuming that it's based on the ETA 6497-2. So much to learn while having fun. ...Be sure to send a photo of your watch when completed. It'd be fun to have a video on all the different watches that subscribers have created. Cheers, Bill
How does a person change the placement of the stem or crown (I'm not sure of the correct terminology) on a watch like this if you're using the 6498 movement to make a wristwatch? Is that something you have to manufacture yourself or is there some kind of kit?
Praetor, you can move the movement around all you want in the case. To move the stem in the movement would require major changes in the keyless works. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Hey Bill, it's my pleasure. I just got two new cases I need for finishing up a couple more watches. One is for a California dial and the other is my idea of a "gentleman's field watch." Cheers, Bill
I did, it even has the 1888 year back on the case. Steel but having seen enough worn rolled gold cases I'm happy to stick to steel. You stay safe too, though really as long as you avoid crowds and take basic precautions you should be fine anyway. :D
Hi Fish & B...I don't exactly trust any watch company that doesn't tell the consumer the whole truth. It might be a perfectly fine watch, but for the amount of money, why should I buy any luxury watch that isn't fully transparent. It's not the ETA movement; it's the lack of transparency that keeps me away from such brands. Take care, Bill
@@ir0n2541 It has a base of an ETA 7750 ( watchbase.com/iwc/caliber/69370watchbase.com/iwc/caliber/69370 ) The ETA chrono isn't bad... it'd be easier if IWC simply noted that their movement was based on the ETA. Take care, Bill
Short version, those Pams are expensive because of Sylvester Stallone. He worn it in the movie Daylight, helped make the brand popular, they are limited editions and the caseback has Stallone's signature. Not only did he purchase one for himself, but he also commisioned a batch of Panerai Luminor Submersible pieces with “Slytech” on the dial and his signature engraved on the back. Following that, Stallone collaborated again with Panerai, this time including the “Daylight” moniker on the top portion of the Luminor dial along with “Slytech” on the bottom. This was the first time the Daylight name appeared on a Panerai watch. And added value; Richemont group acquisition (then known as the Vendome Group). Those Pams are Pre-Vendome.
Now John, does anyone really care what Sly does anymore? In fact, I could care less what watch any movie star, James Bond or super hero (except for Dead Pool) wears... If Stallone jacked up the price; that's even more reason to avoid the model. Get to work and make your own watch! Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Well, you did state, 'for some reason, that thing has taken off'. I just provided the background. Omega puts Snoopy or Tin Tin on their watch and its 'worth' more. Sometimes no rhyme or reason when it comes to collectables...
@@JohnDoe-ub8fq The important part is the horology. 'Collectables...' can be anything from Depression Glass to bottle caps. If the only value of a watch is its 'collectability' I find nothing of interest in it. Take care, Bill
I'm new to the world of watchmaking, collecting so forgive me if my questions are poor but I have to ask what the purpose would be of building these watches. It's a clone movement. I suppose I could see it if a person wanted to build a watch for themselves that might be able to be regulated to keep fairly decent time, and yes they look nice. The one you built looks good, but how much money is it worth as far as selling it? All the professional watchmakers agree that Rolex clones no matter how nicely built are worth zero dollars, and should be thrown in the garbage, removed from existence and I see their point. If I clone a $5000 watch I might enjoy it myself, but it's an abomination on the market isn't it? If I can sell it for what it is without being dishonest without tricking someone, can I sell it for much more than $100? So far my inclination has to been to buy authentic vintage watches on the cheap that need some love and restoring them to decent condition keeping the original movement, but cleaning, repairing, lubricating, and then regulating.
Fred, the point is to have a little fun and better understand watches. You could ask, what's the point of watch collection...this is not about making a clone, but learning a little about how watches are put together. Take care, Bill
Thanks, Bill. This was soooo informative. I've been looking at packaged DIY watch making kits that range from $200 to $500. I'm thinking your approach would be a better value and perhaps more fun. Certainly, it provides for more flexibility since I can make choices ALL along the way (movement, case, dial, etc....). I found your discussion of the ETA 6497/98 most interesting. I'll look for more videos from you.
Gene, if it weren't for putting on second hands, this would be easy! I wonder if someone has a speciality and all they do is put on second hands? Take care, and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci Funny! I've been watching "how to" videos and I think with care I can do it. Question: Can I put the ST36 movement (or similar clone) in a 43mm case? When I search for a case I get all kinds of sizes -- and like you said -- I better get this right! I would really love your guidance along the way (if you don't mind). Is there a way to email you without going through eBay? If you'd rather not....I understand. Thanks, Gene
Hello Bill, I ran across your channel and I must commend you on your fascinating work. I'm looking to create a watch. The movement I want to use has a 32.4mm diameter. Finding a case for this size is difficult and I'm worried that if I do find one, it might too small/unisex size. I do prefer a 42mm watch case and the ETA 6497/6498 movement is common, diameter of 36.6 mm and finding cases for this is much easier. - My questions are ... 1.) Where can I find cases that fit a 32.4mm movement? Are they even available, or must be custom? 2.) How can I install the smaller 32.4mm movement in the more common larger cases for a 36.6mm movements? Are there larger clips that hold it in place? I can't video on this. 3.) If so... will I have to put a larger dial on the smaller movement to fill out the watch face? Is this possible? Are the tabs/feet behind the dial have the same distance apart for a 32mm watch to 36mm watch? Sorry for the questions but I think you'd be a great source of answers to my questions. Thank you and looking forward! Ben
Hey IE, thanks man! You can check here for a company that might have what you need: www.nawcc-index.net/ToolsParts.php#ToolsParts . Good hunting, and let me know if you find what you need. Take care, Bill
@18:24 Bill, screwdrivers are sized in millimeters or fractions of a inch. Color of the handle some manufacturer puts on yours is misleading (small quibble)
ForbinC, that's a big quibble...not between us, but if there's not a standard size with the different colors, it becomes very difficult to quickly pick a screwdriver from a wheel if it cannot be done by the colors. Let me check to see if any standard color-coding exists or if it's wholly dependent on the mfg. Thanks for bringing this up FC. Bill
Hey FB, I found this guide: The most expensive part of the watchmakers screwdriver is the handle. The ends are usually universally coloured so you can quickly identify which screwdriver size you are working with. All the top brands use the same colour coding system: Green - 200 Grey - 140 Red - 120 Black - 100 Yellow - 8 0White - 60 These are for the "top brands" ... so if these standards are not met, it may mean you've go a sub-standard set. Cheers, Bill
@@watchartsci thanks, Bill. Those numbers in millimeters cannot be correct. Take the "red", for example - 120mm is HUGE and cannot be correct. thank you for researching that - I believe you took it from this webpage which states _The number next to the colour refer to the blade width in millimeters_ www.eternaltools.com/blog/complete-guide-to-watchmakers-screwdrivers
Hey Bill, super video, thank you for posting. My fantasy build would be a dirty dozen type watch with a second sub dial like above, but ideally in the 38-40mm range. Any suggestions for a movement for this? Would the above movement be too big? I'm not fussed about it being Swiss, Japanese or Chinese, but I would want it to be reliable and ideally not too expensive. Appreciate any thoughts.
So-Ko, if you haven't made a watch before, get the least expensive for your first one - the 649/78 (Sea-Gull 36xx) and a case it'll fit in. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci Thanks for the reply. Actually working on my first watch now! Still waiting on a few parts which are all Vostok or Vostok compatible because I figure it would be an affordable and easy way to approach my first build. But thinking down the road, really want a small seconds subdial to fit in a 38-40mm case. Any suggestions that won't break the bank, and have a decent amount of parts available for it?
Hi Robert, yes I will. That's really what you do first before your put it all together. At 4pm Eastern; 9pm GMT we're going to have a live streaming on making watches. Next Sunday we'll make an actual watch...but first adjusting it. Cheers, Bill
So if I send in my Longines (with some ETA movement) for service in an independent shop, they could very well replace the original movement with a brand new Seagull movement?
Hi Gang... yeah, they could. But by using the ample supply of ETA parts, there's no reason to do that. Find out what ETA movement is in the Longines, and then get one of the same movements and if your Longines has problems, just slip in the replacement ETA and just send your movement in to be serviced. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci Thanks for reply. By service, I meant the regular clean & lube every 5-10 years as suggested by the manufacturer, not necessarily fixing any problems. They could save a lot of labor by swapping the $35 movement in rather than spending hours to disassemble the movement, clean, and rebuild. They normally charge $200-300 for the "full service".
@@gang208 Yikes! My 84-year old guy hasn't charged me over $20 ... doesn't even use a timegrapher and does top-notch work. Find a local guy or gal. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci lol some of the bigger names will charge nearer the thousand dollars for a service! There aren’t many small watch repairers that will charge less than hundreds of dollars around. At least not in my country. You’re looking at around 150 dollars for a plain 3 hander to be serviced and more like 500 for a chronograph or something with complications.
@@murph8411 For my FP Journes and Parmigiani Kalpra, the charge for service and overhaul was over $1,000 each. Not cheap. For me, it was money well spent since it extended the life of the watch, and judging from the current price of these watches...I got off easy. Take care, Bill
How could we forget the Brooklyn Bridge! With a movement that looks like it was picked up at a yard sale Panerai gave some of us a reason not to ever trust them again. I know that it's become somewhat a collector's treasure, and there are those who seek out the misbegotten cretin, but only if it has the original crummy movement. Go figure... Cheers, Bill
Timothy, do you want a chronograph in a dive-watch case? Why not start off with something simple like an ETA 6498 or 6497 (or Chinese clone, ST 36 or 3600) in a dive watch case? A chronograph requires added complications that you may not want to tackle for a first watch. Check out th-cam.com/video/rDfde-nmtKg/w-d-xo.html to see how. Also, take a look at th-cam.com/video/yAjiT7CyA9M/w-d-xo.html for a project we're doing. Kindest regards, Bill
Hi Bill, I've jumped in with both feet, I've got 3 cases to work with so I've got quite a few questions to ask. I'd like to buy and fit movements for each, so the first question where should I be looking to buy movements? 2. What's the best way to measure for the case size, (diameter and height). Thanks for your time.
Hi Irwin, generally, I do it the other way around: decide on which movement I want to use (usually an ETA 6497/8 or a clone Seagull ST 36) and then find a case that will fit it. For measuring the case size, I use digital calipers ( www.amazon.com/dp/B07DC3XFYW/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07DC3XFYW&pd_rd_w=0KZgk&pf_rd_p=c83c55b0-5d97-454a-a592-a891098a9709&pd_rd_wg=x4LZh&pf_rd_r=SKX11N91BFC64XGNV48X&pd_rd_r=2956ce4a-6421-4985-b20a-aafe3c329f6d&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFRSlRPMENJU09MWUMmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAyMzUwNDkxRjU2MlVUM0Q4MU0xJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA2ODM1NjYzMk4wWlRWMUxGTldGJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsX3RoZW1hdGljJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ== ) So, what country are you buying from? If you're not in a hurry, China is the most affordable, but I'd scan eBay to see what you can find in your own country. So ... let me know the country. Cheers, Bill
How do you know the size of the movement ? I had a look on the Bay fo E and there wasn't many listing for this movement, but there was no dimensions on any of them
Hi Monty, check out Watchbase.com or ETA.ch ... then work out the one that best fits the Chinese version-like ST36xx have the same dimensions as ETA 6497/8. Cheers, Bill
@@watchartsci Been trying to get the parts inside the EU, not so may suppliers. Will check these places out. I did price up the parts for a basic wind up build on the bay of E COM, came to about 95 USD, Then I saw the same watch made from the parts I picked, including a strap which I didn't add to cart and it was 75 USD to buy, So to build it yourself was more expensive. Crazy prices for watches in China now . Thanks
Hey Bill thank you. can I ask a question? how can I actually build a swiss watch brand? does it worth it? how hard is it to find watch makers who are willing to help you do it? Thank you
Hi Tiktok ... starting your own Swiss watch brand ... here's what I would do: Buy Vaucher movements; cases by Voutilainen & Cattin, SA; ... have to sniff around the Swiss watchmakers for both dials and hands...take more watchmaking courses and put them together myself. But it would be expensive, and I'm not rich enough to do it. You could go a more frugal route with movements from Sellita ... Cheers, Bill
Hi Self, that case was made for an ETA 6497/8 [or Seagull clone] The NH35 measures 27.4mm x 5.32mm and the ETA 6497/8 is roughly 36.6mm x 4.5mm. The big difference is that the NH35 is an automatic with a rotor making it thicker. However, the thickness of the case is around 11.5mm. What I'd suggest is for you to do a little detective work and 1) find a Seiko watch with the NH35 movement, and 2) then find the dimensions of the Seiko watch-width and height. As it stands now, the NH35 should fit in the indicated case but securing it may take a little extra work. Kindest regards, Bill
Hey Peter, thanks man! We've just started a new project with an ETA 2892-A2 (or equivalent) ... join us! Step 1 and Step 2 can be found among the recent posts. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Hi Phil, the best way to start is to type in "ST36" or ETA 6497 a search window. Then once you decide on the movement, click the image search and when you find one you like, go to their web site. Compare lots of movements, features and prices. Only use this link as a "starting point." www.ebay.com/bhp/seagull-movement . For a case, it's best to specify the width and movement type. For example, "42mm case for ETA6498" Here's a German site with lots of cases and even cases with bracelets ... a tad more expensive: www.shop.sk-watchparts.com/cases/ETA-6497/9 . Here's the one from the video: www.ebay.com/itm/42MM-Parnis-Watch-316L-Stainless-Steel-Black-PVD-CASE-Fit-ETA-6498-6497-Movement-/182779501558 Now do some searches and leave a link and comment here on a good one you've found! Kindest regards, Bill
So how much would a clone/Franken watch from India that uses Seiko 5 movements be worth? How about those Chinese watches that use a Seagull movement that you can sometimes bid on on eBay. They must be worth at least the price of the movement, case, and band. Also, is a clone of a Seagull really a clone if nobody has ever heard of Seagull?
Grimshaw, it probably is, but the fun part is making one yourself. You can learn more that way ... but hey! ... that may not be something you're into. No problem. Take care, Bill
Only thing that bothers me is the dial. I would hate to see Parnis written on the dial. Wish you could make them put your name on it like "Bill Sanders" or something. Maybe it can be done by buying one with no brands on it then laser graving it, or simply painting.
Hi Barış, I don't like anything on the dial either...I like what they call 'sterile dials'. If I'm going to put something on a watch, it must be pretentious!...just like a real watch company. I was thinking 'Montres par Bill ... how does that sound?Meilleures salutations, Bill
Hi Bill, yeah it sound pretty good, also "Montres par B. Sanders" may look lil crowdish but quite nice aswell, or maybe "Montres par B.S." with Italic font maybe. Cheers.
Just take a standard 6497 to an experienced watchmaker and ask them if they can upgrade it. Some can modify these with more advanced parts if you can pay for it.
You have a Bovet, and an FP Journe? Streuth...and nice. Talking about Panerai you are also paying for the name ; a lot of watchmakers have a brand, you are also paying for the brand, to be part of it. I'm not saying it's right, it just is what it is. Making a watch like this is fine, but you are just buying parts from China and putting it together. It's great, you are getting a perfectly fine watch for not much. But what if you want to build your own, maybe not the movement but the case and buckle, stuff like that. Design your own and actually make it. I have a Sellita movement and I'm making my own case and back and bezel and all the rest. It's a completely different thing and has much more value than just buying a few parts on Ebay. Just saying; there are different levels of this thing we call watchmaking. Nice video, by the way.
Chris, it sounds like you have something I do not: the talent to make a watch case! I have to buy all the parts, and I've broken parts while learning to make watch's; so I'd rather break a cheap movement than an expensive one. (Yes, I've broken a Sellita.) So, until I get better, there's no sense in buying expensive watch parts. However, that may be about to change! Join our live streams where we're plotting to get excellent watch movements and cases. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Totally get it. I've been in engineering for over thirty years and I'm finding that building one from scratch is not easy. So, buying parts from ebay makes sense, and is cheap. Might even do it myself so I can get more experience putting one together. I'll definitely check out that project you mentioned as I'm learning all the time on how to go about my own project. Thanks for the reply and stay safe.
The caliber names and numbers generally are not part of the position of the small seconds; so once you figure out this relationship, you'll not need to learn more. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci True. I just feel it would have made a bit more sense to compare it to a watch of a similar style, not that that would necessarily impact the price difference. Video was very nice though, Bill!
I see your point Invid, I was sort of trying to put the minimal parts together, and I suppose if I could come up with a closer match, the price might double or triple-but even $300 would be a small fraction of the $5,000. Kindest regards, Bill
What's the difference Texas Marine? You think there's $5k of goodies in a $5k watch. You ought to join us at 'Pretentious Watchmakers" (FB page) We just completed a $87 "Breguet Nouveau" with an enamel dial-the Breguet model is $22,000. I know a lot of Texans and a lot of Marines ... and one thing I'll say; they're pretty sharp. The more you learn about horology, the more you can separate the hyperbole from reality. Take care, Bill
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Thanks! I just did my first watch augmentation. I put a sapphire crystal on an old cheap seiko. Really dressed it up since the original was plastic. Everybody thinks it looks high end now.
It's like getting a new watch for the price of the crystal, Fall Front! Now it is high end! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Dear Bill, Your videos about do it yourself watchmaking demystify the subject of watch assembly. These videos further demonstrate how both aesthetic and functional design considerations are rooted first in the choice of movement and then in decisions related to the modification of the movement. This is essential horological knowledge for anyone who wants to develop their skills as a collector even if they are not necessarily going to move forward with hands on watchmaking projects. Your video provides a great deal of insight into the value proposition of various watches that feature non-inhouse movements. First, what is the cost factor of a particular movement to the watch manufacturer in relationship to the selling price of the watch? Second, is the movement essentially just dropped into the watch or are modifications being made? Third, what is the value of the modifications in relationship to the selling price of the watch? Doing such value proposition assessments is not an exact science but the example of comparing the Panarai to your homespun watch is a sobering exercise in comparative horological cost accounting. While artistry and design are intangibles not as readily subject to such a comparative cost analysis, having a nuts and bolts sense of the hardware cost of a watch is data that should be of both interest and genuine utility to watch collectors. Thank you for a great and thought provoking educational piece. I hope that you enjoy the Watch Time event in New York and I will look forward to viewing whatever video(s) you generate at the event. With much appreciation for all that you do, Howard
Hi Howard, the Show begins today, and I hope to get interviews with the most interesting watchmakers there and as many collectors as I can. May be late on Sunday with the video, but that's unavoidable...much more later! Cheers, Bill
One important detail about the dial, beyond the alignment with the movement sub seconds, is that the dial and case marry without any fitment issues. As important as the marriages of the movement and case, the movement and dial, is the case and dial. For those interested in building their own watch, search out what rookie mistakes others have made, because that information is as important as the set of instructions for building the watch. Once you realise how frustrating it is to put the hands on, or fit and cut the stem, good advice will be required.
All good points Bidipho. Thanks man! Take care, Bill
When building your first watch, you might want to get an extra stem in case you cut off too much. Also some oil would be good.
Hey DIY, yes on the stem; no on the oil. Lubricating a watch is very touchy, and some watches require different kinds of lubricants for different parts of the same watch. For a first watch, an additional stem is a great idea, but leave the lubricants alone until you've got more experience. Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
For people attempting this, always cut longer on the stem and then cut again if you need to. You can't do anything about it if you cut it too short (speaking from experience :P).
Good tip. Take care, Bill
Having the time, accumulating the tools, knowing how to finish the metal surfaces and putting them all together, $4895. But I do agree that putting one together yourself is so much fun :-)
Yikes! Kenneth! I'm impressed with your skills. I wish I had them! Take care, Bill
Let me tell you something my friend. You inspired me to built that watch. Your video is super awesome with all the info need it. I just ordered the Dial, case and movement all for about $65. I will be following you and seeing more of your videos. Thank you so much.
Hi Juan, I'm glad to hear you made the investment ... get just the tools that you need, but get the best you can ... and be patient. The best part of making your own watch ... you learn about what really goes into some of these watches-especially those costings thousands made up of a steel case, an inexpensive movement and a band. Please let me know how your initial project goes! Kindest regards, Bill
After watching this video, I fell in love with the charm of homemade watches.
Then, I started uploading videos of people making their own watches to TH-cam, and on November 11th, I will publish videos of people who assemble their own watches.
Let us know when you do Batayan. Sounds like an interesting project. You might also like to check out our DIY FB page, 'Pretentious Watchmakers.' Take care, Bill
Well, I agree, that in case of some high-end watches, the price is hard to justify. Then again, in case of others, the watch case and dials are the ones that actually justify the price. Like enamel dials or expencive metals used - those do not come cheap. What I'm trying to say is, that movement can, but may not be the main justification for the watch price.
You can ruin a great movement with a terrible dial. Here's a great example, Ipiloot: www.leinfelder-uhren.de/de/kollektionen/popart/ The movement is a UWD 33.1 by Marco Lang ... and they wrapped that dial around it! Take care and stay safe 😷
@@watchartsci Mein Gott! THAT is a watch for someone working in circus probably.
$30k watch with a $30 movement. Nice.
Sure Tob, why not? Especially since I can't afford a $30k watch. Cheers, Bill
@@watchartsci can't dispute your logic.
It's a custom watch,the idea is that you can do anythink you want,perhaps it makes sense for lots of people,you don't see the mouvemet much and for lot sof people accuracy isn't so luch of an issue,so the money is spent on the dial hands and case
12:40 fyi the black one is a flieger type dial, fliegers traditionally have no makings on them aside from the numbers, that includes the manufacturer logo not being printed.
Hi Bill, interesting video I have always wondered on panerai watches especially the ETA versions were the value for money lies a ETA movement a plane printed dial and a leather strap no wonder they are so commanly faked, when a watch movement is modefied they never tell you what has been done, if there was a watch maker on you tube revealing these so called modifications on movements then people would know exactly what they are getting for there money, and then the Wise's watch buyer would really be getting the best value for money.
Hi Marco, I like Panerai designs, even though it took a while to get used to the big crown guard, but after the PAM 318 scandal, I just didn't trust them. Anyway, now that I've been making my own watches, it's a lot easier to take a quick peek in the back and see what's going on. As collectors, we spend a lot on watches; there's no place for deception in the business, and we shouldn't put up with it. Take care, Bill
This is great content and takes the realm of watchmaking closer to the average joe. Good job Bill.
Hey CW, well I am an Average Joe! Take care, Bill
Great to learn how to make your own. You have encouraged me to try the same thanks bill
Glad to help, Chris. The main thing I got out of if is learning more about watches... and my long suffering relatives kept getting watch gifts! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Hi Bill all the parts have now arrived in the UK so will start the process of assembly the cost of all the parts including the movement a clone of the eta6497 came to £97 pounds
Great Lawrence...when you build it send me a picture. We'll have to start the Société des horlogers prétentieux like FP Journe did with the independent watchmakers. Cheers, Bill
lawrence waite hows the watch building going ? Cheers.
Steve good question and the answer is not so good the first thing I did wrong was not buying a magnifying lamp so that I could clearly see secondly the cheap screwdrivers I bought were rubbish so after buying some decent equipment I made a start after fitting the dial and hands ,the small seconds hand at 6 was difficult, after removing the stem and fitting the movment into the case I refitted the the stem and the crown only to find the winding pinion had dropped out and never to be found again ,so now I have to either buy a pinion or a new movement, you learn by your mistakes so It's on hold for now .
I was thinking of trying to add an ETA to a dive case. And thought there has to be someone who has also thought of this as well. I found this video. I am amazed that there are not more people doing this or thinking of doing this. Buy The case crystal bezel of said watch style remove the movement and replace the movment. At least ir sounds plausible.
Hi Timothy, see the above response to your query...I put in some links for you. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Thank You Very Much
My pleasure Timonthy! Cheers, Bill
Ah, Seagull movements. Look, you really need a watchmaker to take it apart and service it, then put it back together. I just got one and it had no lubrication, even in the mainspring barrel or the arbour. There was plenty of dirt on the jewels on the main plate however. I hope it cleans up and I don't have to try and replace jewels, but they look pretty bad. I've already spent three hours on it (strip, inspect, clean) and I've got a lot more to go (inspect, adjust/repair, lubricate, assemble). It depends on which factory in which part of China they come from.
By all means make a watch with a Chinese clone movement, but be aware that it's probably not meant to go straight into a case and be sold on high street. The Chinese are doing an outstanding job at manufacturing. Finishing and assembly however... The movements in those plastic cases with pretend hands on them are student movements. They are for learning on and you are expected to strip, clean, and lubricate them before you even think about putting them in a case.
Even if you manage to get ETA 6497/6498 movements (ebauche) form Switzerland, they won't be lubricated because Swatch will expect you to polish, finish, assemble, and lubricate the movement in house. They will also be about four to eight times the price.
I know $5000 for a Panerai seems a bit steep, but they did all of the manufacturing in-house, all of the above testing and assembly, the original dial design, original case design, and produced the whole thing to a high standard. Five grand per watch is about what I'd expect for that amount of work, personally. If I built a movement in-house (LOL) as well as the case and final assembly, my asking price would be about A$35,000.
So.... can average Joe do this successfully? Well I've heard of ST36 movements coming from China properly lubricated and ready to install. I've just never seen one...
I feel ya, but I also know just enough to be skeptical. A mechanical movement will last a hundred years plus with care and regular servicing and I believe this applies more now than it did in 1900 (but I have movements older than that). The problem is, an ST36 bought now can work great, but won't last more than a few years with no lubrication and with the factory dirt left in there.
Seiko is looking pretty good, yeah?
Hey Chris, the Seagulls are great "practice" movements, and the ones I have practiced on are better than those you describe. Learning to lube on a Seagull will save you money in case one of the gears flies into the great black hole of watch parts! Join us on the "Pretentious Watchmakers" FB page! Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Yeah, I'm trying to figure out which automatic Seagull movement to get to practice on. ST1612 is very cheap and is roughly a copy of the Miyota 8216 (same but different maybe). TY2806 might also be the same movement but made in Tianjin. I'm tending more towards the ST2130 as it's a copy of the ETA 2824-2 so might be more useful at this stage. I found the Facebook group and hit join, but to be honest I really don't do much with Facebook usually. "Pretentious" probably suits me fine, but I did get to realise how deep I was into the Dunning Kruger effect today, so I'm not sure I qualify any longer ;-)
@@Chris_the_Muso As founder of La Société des horlogers prétentieux we make sure no trained or too talented watchmakers are allowed in our group.
Dear Bill, I loved that $154 watch you show at the start - where can I get the parts ?
Pale Male, check this newer project out: th-cam.com/video/2mX0YNQAaBs/w-d-xo.html Take care, Bill
Many thanks Bill, bit of a change, but I may instead try to build a manual wind Flieger B WW2 pilot watch, black face, white sword hands and bronze case to make it look old - I need a big 44mm dial to suit my Fred Flintstone 8.25 inch wrists lol.@@watchartsci
I just cut out all the snobby ADs and BS and bought a 52.00 Parnis on AliExpress.It has the 6497 and looks like a Panerai.Ill let some D-Bag pay 25 Grand for basically the same Watch and I’ll put that Money into my next Car.You are enlightening.TY
Hey Echo, way to go! More fun and less money! If someone gets snobby with you ask them, 'Who made your watch?' and unless it's by Kari Voutilainen, Laurent Ferrier, Jean-Marc Wiederrecht , or some of the really high end independents; they don't know who made their mass-produced, overpriced tick-tock. Someone who really loves watches, whether it's by FP Journe or Sea-gull; they're going to want to hear your story of how you made your watch.(I've got plenty and they sometimes don't have Disney endings!) As your first effort, watch all the videos you can about working with the 6497, and remember the old carpenter's dictum, "Measure twice; cut once." Kindest regards, Bill
WatchArtSci Bill,TYVM For your reply!!!Yes I’m familiar with the 6497 as it’s in a Parnis Pilot I’ve had for a few Years.Great advice on the “who made your watch”Quip.I had a very rude AD Store Rep buying a Tudor that came with machine marks on the case.I ended up returning it 2 times before they got it correct.TY again.👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Lol 🤡🤡
You're exactly what I need to help me along.....do you answer questions? What piece do I buy first? Case or movement?
Hi Grizzly, I always start with the movement; then I find a case my movement will fit and a dial that fits the case. If I can, I buy the dial and hands together so that there a match between the style of the dial and the hands. But Step 1 for me is buy the movement. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Thx for the info. I like a bigger watch....like a 48mm case. Does the movemet size matter in conparison to the case?
@@grizzlybexar8177 You want the movement to match the size of your case as much as possible. With a 48mm case, a nice big ETA 6498 or ST36 should do the trick. Kindest regards, Bill
I had a look at the P6000, from what I can see it is very different to the ETA6497. 1. Three days power reserve. 2. Totally different plate and bridge layout. 3. Made either in-house or possibly by Lefleurier(not using a clone of 6497). I would tend to think that designing and producing a new movement would make a watch much more expensive. Could anyone offer their thoughts?
P.S. I'm not a Panerai fan. Don't have an opinion either way.
Hi Richard, there's a difference between a new movement with the same dimensions as another movement (like the ETA 6497-2) and a movement that merely copies a movement it intends to replace. The P6000 is not a clone of the 6497, but it does have similar dimensions so that it can replace the 6497 in certain size cases made for the 6497. Most likely, the P6000 was made at Richemont's ValFleurier, the group's movement manufacturer spread out, thusly:
1. Research and development in Neuchâtel
2. A modern prototyping and production facility in Buttes in the Val de Travers
3. Finishing and decoration in La Côte-aux-Fées at the Piaget facility.
In this way, Richemont's brands can share in and have some control over the movements in their watches, and while several movements can be used in different brand watches (e.g., Piaget & Cartier), they can greatly reduce the unit costs of the movement and make modifications best reflecting the brand. Take care, bill
Fascinating, many thanks. I am so captivated that I want to try out this project, but am a beginner, so could you do a video showing how to put it all together, please.
My pleasure J Bloggs! Check this video out for a good step-by-step ( th-cam.com/video/rDfde-nmtKg/w-d-xo.html ) and here are a couple more that I did: th-cam.com/video/1Zf5Wsxle4M/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/hv8zGMIUd2o/w-d-xo.html ... also, during the pandemic, every morning at 0800 and afternoon at 1600 New York time (Eastern Daylight Time) during the pandemic, we'll have a live stream on this channel where we talk about making watches ... among everything else under the sun about watches. Take care, Bill
Mr Levine the British man. A real professional. The best. On TH-cam. Scores of videos
Learning. I do not know how much I would trust myself to have a watch to be 100 meters water resist, any mistake with assembly and my work would be 0 meter water resist.
My solution Fossil is to to keep my watch from getting wet. I wouldn't worry, though. The cases are easy to seal up with screw-on backs. Take care, Bill
Excellent video. Thinking about trying some DIY watch projects myself and your channel seems like a great resource. Does proper water resistance pose any particular challenge? How about putting together a watch with a quartz movement? What's your take on "hydro modding"?
Hi Lifragen, I keep my watches mostly away from water and swimming, but if you do plan to take your watch in the water, you need to have excellent seals. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
For a 44mm watch case, the watch dial also needs to be 44mm? I fear this may be a stupid question.
Damon, it would be smaller than 44mm, but working out the dial size vis a vis the case size is NOT a stupid question. Take care, Bill
Interesting video, thank you! I don't completely agree with you on the CW regulator necessitating a major re-design. Yes, it's more than just changing the shape of a bridge, but it probably can all be done on the dial side. Instead of having the hour wheel on top of the cannon pinion, it sits on a pin just under 12 o'clock. Maybe an intermediate wheel is needed between the minute wheel and hour wheel, but not much more than that. Unlike the seconds and minutes, the hours are not directly driven and therefore do not require any changes to the gear train layout.
Hi David, I would agree that moving the position of a hand-post on a dial is not the same as making a new movement from scratch. I have modified a 6497 to remove the post that holds the second hand, and while that operation was wholly from the dial-side, it also has implications for the back side (gear-side?). The seconds hand is on the fourth wheel on the 6497, and part of what holds the fourth wheel in position is the hand post extending into the dial. By removing most of the post, the fourth gear has less anchoring (there's no jewel pivot point on the dial side of the fourth gear on the 6497). On the other hand, moving the works so that the movement of the second hand shows up elsewhere on the dial is way beyond my watchmaking skills, such as they are. However, I do know that moving the post for any of the hands is more than a trivial task. You cannot just stack the second hand on top of the cannon pinion and expect it to work as a center seconds. The turning gear for the second hand must be moved so that there's a turning post for the seconds hand on top of the hour and minute hand, which means a change not only to the cannon pinion but also moving or linking the gear that turns the second hand. If your comment is in relation to my response to Brian's comment about the value of Panerai using the OP I or OP II movements (both ETA 6497-1s with the only modification to the post on the second hand on the OP I), you need to clarify that. The inexpensive Steinhart Nav B-Uhr 47 Titan A-Type Central Second with the 6497 and center seconds is not a modification on the order of adding a remontoir d'egalité to the movement, but it's more than removing the seconds post as Panerai has done on the OP I.
-Let me switch gears here for a second. Since you seem to know your way around an ETA/Unitas 6497/8 and watchmaking, please give me your thoughts on the following: making a regulator from a standard ETA 6498. It would require one hand re-positioning-the hour hand from the cannon pinion to a sub-dial at 12 o'clock. This is not an original idea at all; I've seen it in a watch school project proposal and on the Chr. Ward Regulator using an ETA/Unitas 6498-1. Kindest regards, Bill
Thanks Bill for the great, i am now also embarking on making my first watch :D.
I actually was thinking about the Panerai for a long time, and this episode just confirmed my fears, that Panerai simple watches, are not worth what is sold for, especially movement wise.
So Thanks again for the great help :)
Best,
Abdul
Abdul Rahman Abdel Razek Now that you know what goes inside...make one yourself! Cheers Bill
Abdul Rahman Abdel Razek hows it going with your watch building?
@@stevebo8055 it is not going as planned, I bought 4 new vintage watches 😂 which I was not planning. But now I just have to start by buying a case, and then everything will Follow afterward.
sorry but how not ?? how can u say vc or parmigiani are but panerai not ? they all mostly insource their movements ... its all about the case and the design anyway ...
Idk if you still check these, but I am having a hard time searching this info. How do you determine the watch hand size length needed if your dial doesn't come with hands? This was a great video and was very informative.
Hey Frostshock, good question. Usually, I just get the hands paired with the dial. If there isn't a pairing, I just get the hands that are advertised in the same general area as the dial and case. Take care and stay safe, Bill 😷
Great video Bill with good advice.
Hey Bill, thanks man! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Great video. please make one for pocket watches.
Angel, I really don't know enough about pocket watches except the Unitas/ETA 6497/8 movement. Maybe when I learn more I'll be able. Take care and stay safe, Bill 😷
I once had the opportunity to consult on a buildings mechanical equipment. To my surprise in this building they made fashion garments. There was about 20 people working at sewing machines and I noticed every now and again that one of them would get up and go over to see somebody who would then unlock a safe like cupboard and give them a clothing label. It was obvious to anyone watching that the value of that product was in the label not necessarily the material.You could have put that label on any clothing and it would have increased its price but not value. It was all about the marketing that created the preceved value. As far as I know they weren't using gold thread.
Understanding the movement used in a watch indicates to you the true quality and workmanship of the watch. it indicates to you if the watch has value because of craftsmanship or marketing. Understanding the base movement used in a watch is very important when considering the quality and the price you pay for the watch. This is necessary knowledge for anyone who wants to really understand watches. Your video points this out in detail. Thanks again for a great video.
Thanks Say It! That's a great allegory about the value of the label over the value of the product. We see that in watches, and if there's some way to marry the two-high quality recognized in the brand and high quality inside the watch-I think it's worth pursuing. Recently, I was chastised by a seller who was trying to sell a brand with a cheap movement ... if we're buying watches, we need to be on the buyer's side in these matters. Kindest regards, Bill
So many interesting items of note in this episode including some of the outrageous mark ups being asked. I have done several mods & enjoyed them immensely. Both improving & upgrading the "bones" of the donor original. I suppose my next step is to buy the components to put together my own vision of horological joy. Thanks for the advice & inspiration Bill.
My pleasure Peter. There's a group of us in a FaceBook page, "Pretentious Watchmakers" who are dedicated to creating our own watch but understand our limits but have fun anyway. Take care, Bill
Wait until you start getting into real watches and understand why they charge as much as they do.
@@ayoungtricknamedjim5498 You are assuming that I don't own a high horology watch? Would an 18kt gold Omega Seamaster deVille be considered high enough for you? How about a hand wound made to order watch that takes six months to be finished. Would that fit your idea of a "real" watch? I own both.
Price does NOT necessarily decide the quality of a watch. There are a number of brands on the market that people pay WAY too much for, Rolex being one of them!
Besides, I enjoy learning about how movements actually work & the difference between their designs. How to carry out repairs or upgrades myself & I can design almost anything my heart desires without paying thousands for something that may end up being a failure. I am currently rebuilding a 1969 King Seiko 7000/5625. Very high horology for it's time & a much better movement than the 6R31 being offered in the Anniversary edition currently being sold by Seiko.
Life is for learning @A Young Trick Named Jim..... don't be a watch snob!
@@ayoungtricknamedjim5498 try dunking on someone else. The guy is wearing a Bovet while making this video. If you don’t know now you know.
@@bonafide1015 My comment was not intended as a dunk. It was an alley-oop. It's up to the OP to bring it home and score.
Am guessing to change from18k to 21,6k beat, involves changing one or 2 cogs only.
I have no idea how the change form 18k to 21.6k so/hr is achieved-maybe just a different balance spring Pale Male. Take care, Bill
I found a guide of sorts that suggests getting a 6498 ETA movement to start with to learn watch making. This is a different one though, right? It seemed from a cursory search that the 6498 ETA movements were around $200 or more.
Praetor, the Chinese made Seagull 36xx clones of the 6497/8 are a lot less expensive ... around $30. It's better to make a $30 mistake than a $200 one. Then you'll see whether that's what you want to do or not. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci I went back and looked at what that guy said and he does mention clones too. I must've overlooked it. Thanks very much!
The guy who wrote that guide does mention that he recommends the ETA because of its quality. He does also recommend a Quartz ETA movement (anything that starts with a 955) if you're strapped for cash.
I was thinking that I might be able to justify the expense by using it as my own personal watch since I don't have one at the moment anyways. :) Either way, I'm definitely going to get one of them and try getting into this. I have been finding it very appealing so far! Thanks for the help!
@@watchartsci would you be able to suggest any other movements that are reliable and of good quality like the ETA 6498? They don't necessarily have to pocket watch size. Any size is fine as long as they aren't tiny.
@@watchartsci if you were able to point me in the direction of how to find something like that out myself, that would be greatly appreciated too. I don't know the names of any movements other than 6498 ETA, much less what is considered good quality or reliable.
@@jawnsushi Check out the ETA 2892-A2 (or their clones) Take care and be safe, Bill😷
The slytech is for Stalone who wore it in the movie Daylight , why the rarity they did not make a lot of of them, and it has nothing to do with the movement
Okay Frank, I don't even remember mentioning 'slytech' but you point is an interesting one nonetheless. Take care, Bill
Another great video as usual Bill. See you tomorrow.
Had a great time tonight at the party, and you're going to love this show! Great watchmakers and watches in the same room! See you tomorrow! Cheers, Bill
Is it really?
@@PatHaskell yes it is
This is great. I'm gonna try. Subscribed
Fall Front, there's also a new project using base 2892-A2 movements ... automatic with date. Check out the "Step1" videos to get started. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Hi Bill, I hope you are well! Superb video as usual!! May I ask if you have any suggestions on how I could possibly get some of my watch designs actually made? And also what are your thoughts on the Longines (2016) Type A-7 1935? Nic
I have no idea, but it's a valid and good question. If you're designing dials, cases and hands, who can take those designs and make the necessary molds for the cases, plates with feet for the dials and the hands. If anyone know let Watch Crazy know. For your part WC, keep digging! Cheers, Bill
@@watchartsci Thank you Bill, some good advice... I will certainly keep digging!!
Great video.
Thanks Vic G! Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Bill, how durable are the Chinese ETA clones and are the serviceable?
@@vicg5323 One of the things you have to check is the initial lubrication. Sometime (so it was rumored) that some of the Sea Gull (Chinese) movements were shipped without lubrication. However, I've never bothered checking, and I've had no problems with several of the clones I've had (mainly clones of ETA 6497/98) by Sea Gull. When you first put a watch together, spend as little as possible and make sure that the case, dial and movement fit together. Great deal of satisfaction in creating your own watch and you'll learn a lot. I need to take a course in the lubrication process...not rocket science, but it has to be done right. I plan on using the excellent service references you can find online originally by ETA. Take care, Bill
How do you get the movement rings?? I got the same setup as you basically but it didn’t come with a ring and nobody sells one!!! This is so frustrating because its all ready but moves around in the case!!!
Melody, they should come with the cases. You might be able to find screw-down clamps. Take care, Bill
FYI: The Sly Tech version is named after the actor Sylvester (Sly) Stone who brought Panerai back into the spotlight using them in his movies. So Panerai charges more fire the name. Whoops doo doo.
Hi Clark, Panerai has always had good looking watches but iffy movements. Sly Stone is appropriate. Take care, Bill
Hi Bill. I heard a while back there was a bit of a scandal about Panerai fitting unworked standard ETA 6497 movements in there watches.
Yep Colonel, the PAM318. You can find more details and pictures here: xtrememeantime.forumotion.com/t8207-panerai-movement-scandal Take care, Bill😷
Thanks for this cool video!
Thanks TCBoy! Take care, Bill
Love the sweater!
Hey Jesussausage, I got it at a Saks Fifth Avenue outlet ... cashmere. Thanks, Bill
Very interested in seeing how the watch turns out.
Me too Bill! I've got everything in hand but the case, which has been ordered. Any suggestions? Cheers, Bill
@@watchartsci I'm not Bill and i'm probably late, but here's one: before assembly, find some local company that does laser engraving and engrave your brand on the dial. And a reference number :-)
@@chepulis That's a good idea! Thanks.
Hello, do you have any links for all the things, no need for the movement link, I already found it, also a link for the black dial; thanks
BLX015 what links are you interested in? Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci I would like the links to the case and the black dial.
@@blxo1589 That was 4 years ago, but in general this link should help: www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20220822035459&SearchText=watch+movements+for+ETA+6498&spm=a2g0o.home.1000002.0www.aliexpress.com/wholesale? Good hunting! Take care, Bill
Hi Bill, thank you for the amazing video!
I had a weird question, I noticed that watchmakers align all the hours, seconds and min hands at the 12 o'clock prior of it going to the case, is there a reason why they need to be aligned that way or could we align them at different times assuming they all land on the markers accurately, for example instead of 12:00:00 you align them 03:30:45 hope I make sense.
looking forward for more video from your channel!
Will, I tend to align the hour hand at 12 and the minute hand at 3. The second hand is 'wherever.' When setting the hands, they often slip; so if you have them spot on a certain time, you can nudge them into place... both at 12 might be tricky since one hand will cover the others. Check some rules about hand-setting; mine are based on what I had in a watchmaking course...that was a few years ago. Take care, Bill
Aligning the hands in other positions makes it difficult to ensure the angles of the hours/minutes are all in alignment. Put it this way, to align the hands at 3:30:45 would mean that the hour hand would need to be exactly midway between the 3 and the 4 whereas the minute hand is at the 6. Where is that midpoint? Hard to tell. Why does it need to be exact? Because you want the hour hand to be exactly at the hour when the minute hand touches the 12. Otherwise, you end up with the infamous misaligned Ming hands on the 1709 series (although that particular issue arose for a different reason, the ending result ends up being similar).
Thanks for all the great information
One question if I can ask
From where can buy all this parts
Thanks a lot
Hi Li Qun, check out AliExpress: www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003297134384.html?_randl_currency=USD&_randl_shipto=US&src=google&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=708-803-3821&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&albagn=888888&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&albcp=9758436840&albag=102219139800&trgt=1478071114056&crea=en1005003297134384&netw=u&device=c&albpg=1478071114056&albpd=en1005003297134384&gclid=Cj0KCQiAxoiQBhCRARIsAPsvo-xu187IY0ipuUpxGlH5Chgj9nj-7hL_qVD9Tu1eGYpBW5frFJgqCcoaAm6CEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&aff_fcid=6ce3908c2b25482c82e19ec5133786a4-1644319767644-01128-UneMJZVf&aff_fsk=UneMJZVf&aff_platform=aaf&sk=UneMJZVf&aff_trace_key=6ce3908c2b25482c82e19ec5133786a4-1644319767644-01128-UneMJZVf&terminal_id=f27274d521f446ebab517306065744eb
Take care, Bill
You can buy from AliExpress
USA customs will confiscate all of them
Thanks
@@liqun8360 I've bought from them shopping to me in the US without a problem. When did the confiscation begin?
@@watchartsci You are lucky
A friend of mine have problems
They say need to prove the original receipt
Anyone this it
@@liqun8360 That's the first I've heard that. Your friend may have had an exceptional case. I recently bought a dial through AliExpress and had no problem at all. Take care, Bill
Hey Bill, funny enough I am assembling my first watch this weekend using the black dial you showed and an st 36. It really has been a massive amount of fun so far and much cheaper (easier to pacify your wife) than buying a proper watch. Although there are some amazing deals on Jaquet Droz and Parmigiani Fluerier at the moment, so I won’t be able to resist for long!
Hi Graham, making watches is a hoot! Like you, I've still had to lash myself to the mast as I keep finding the sirens of great deals for great watches. However, when I'm working on a watch it's great fun. I received a ST36 with a swan's neck regulator. You have to use a microscopic screwdriver to turn the adjustment screw, and through my 4X loupe, it looked like I was using a telephone pole on the screw. I learned that the orange-top screwdriver is the smallest...not the black-top one I was using. I got the timing to -3 seconds from +24 seconds pushing the pointer on the regulator. Since ±5 is considered excellent, I was pretty happy with the progress. Also, I discovered that the ETA 6497-2 and the ETA 6493-2 run at 21,600 (3Hz) instead of 18,000 mph like the ETA 6497-1 and ETA 6498-1. My ST36 was clocking at 21,600; so I'm assuming that it's based on the ETA 6497-2. So much to learn while having fun.
...Be sure to send a photo of your watch when completed. It'd be fun to have a video on all the different watches that subscribers have created. Cheers, Bill
Thank you Bill
The pleasure is all mine, Paul. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
very good mr Bill,
Thanks Mr. Saman! Cheers, Bill
How does a person change the placement of the stem or crown (I'm not sure of the correct terminology) on a watch like this if you're using the 6498 movement to make a wristwatch? Is that something you have to manufacture yourself or is there some kind of kit?
Praetor, you can move the movement around all you want in the case. To move the stem in the movement would require major changes in the keyless works. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci okay, I think I understand. 😁 Thanks! Also, take care and be safe yourself!! :)
Thanks for the informative video, Sir.
Hey Bill, it's my pleasure. I just got two new cases I need for finishing up a couple more watches. One is for a California dial and the other is my idea of a "gentleman's field watch." Cheers, Bill
I bought a 1976 Bucherer Automatic Chronograph certified 25 jewel watch for less than all of these.
Sounds like you did well L. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
I did, it even has the 1888 year back on the case. Steel but having seen enough worn rolled gold cases I'm happy to stick to steel. You stay safe too, though really as long as you avoid crowds and take basic precautions you should be fine anyway. :D
Do you think it IWC Pilot Chronograph is worth it considering its an ETA modification ?
Hi Fish & B...I don't exactly trust any watch company that doesn't tell the consumer the whole truth. It might be a perfectly fine watch, but for the amount of money, why should I buy any luxury watch that isn't fully transparent. It's not the ETA movement; it's the lack of transparency that keeps me away from such brands. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Thanks for responding, is the new Pilot Chrono with the claimed in house movement 69385 Calibre still ETA ?
@@ir0n2541 It has a base of an ETA 7750 ( watchbase.com/iwc/caliber/69370watchbase.com/iwc/caliber/69370 ) The ETA chrono isn't bad... it'd be easier if IWC simply noted that their movement was based on the ETA. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Thanks, well that's a pitty. i thought at least with the new design that they would make it fully inhouse.
Short version, those Pams are expensive because of Sylvester Stallone. He worn it in the movie Daylight, helped make the brand popular, they are limited editions and the caseback has Stallone's signature. Not only did he purchase one for himself, but he also commisioned a batch of Panerai Luminor Submersible pieces with “Slytech” on the dial and his signature engraved on the back. Following that, Stallone collaborated again with Panerai, this time including the “Daylight” moniker on the top portion of the Luminor dial along with “Slytech” on the bottom. This was the first time the Daylight name appeared on a Panerai watch. And added value; Richemont group acquisition (then known as the Vendome Group). Those Pams are Pre-Vendome.
Now John, does anyone really care what Sly does anymore? In fact, I could care less what watch any movie star, James Bond or super hero (except for Dead Pool) wears... If Stallone jacked up the price; that's even more reason to avoid the model. Get to work and make your own watch! Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Well, you did state, 'for some reason, that thing has taken off'. I just provided the background. Omega puts Snoopy or Tin Tin on their watch and its 'worth' more. Sometimes no rhyme or reason when it comes to collectables...
@@JohnDoe-ub8fq The important part is the horology. 'Collectables...' can be anything from Depression Glass to bottle caps. If the only value of a watch is its 'collectability' I find nothing of interest in it. Take care, Bill
I'm new to the world of watchmaking, collecting so forgive me if my questions are poor but I have to ask what the purpose would be of building these watches. It's a clone movement. I suppose I could see it if a person wanted to build a watch for themselves that might be able to be regulated to keep fairly decent time, and yes they look nice. The one you built looks good, but how much money is it worth as far as selling it?
All the professional watchmakers agree that Rolex clones no matter how nicely built are worth zero dollars, and should be thrown in the garbage, removed from existence and I see their point.
If I clone a $5000 watch I might enjoy it myself, but it's an abomination on the market isn't it? If I can sell it for what it is without being dishonest without tricking someone, can I sell it for much more than $100?
So far my inclination has to been to buy authentic vintage watches on the cheap that need some love and restoring them to decent condition keeping the original movement, but cleaning, repairing, lubricating, and then regulating.
Fred, the point is to have a little fun and better understand watches. You could ask, what's the point of watch collection...this is not about making a clone, but learning a little about how watches are put together. Take care, Bill
Costs 100 notes and you're worried about it's worth on resale? Most people can't drop money on a watch that will be the same or more value when sold.
Thanks, Bill. This was soooo informative. I've been looking at packaged DIY watch making kits that range from $200 to $500. I'm thinking your approach would be a better value and perhaps more fun. Certainly, it provides for more flexibility since I can make choices ALL along the way (movement, case, dial, etc....). I found your discussion of the ETA 6497/98 most interesting. I'll look for more videos from you.
Gene, if it weren't for putting on second hands, this would be easy! I wonder if someone has a speciality and all they do is put on second hands? Take care, and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci Funny! I've been watching "how to" videos and I think with care I can do it. Question: Can I put the ST36 movement (or similar clone) in a 43mm case? When I search for a case I get all kinds of sizes -- and like you said -- I better get this right!
I would really love your guidance along the way (if you don't mind). Is there a way to email you without going through eBay? If you'd rather not....I understand. Thanks, Gene
Hello Bill, I ran across your channel and I must commend you on your fascinating work. I'm looking to create a watch. The movement I want to use has a 32.4mm diameter. Finding a case for this size is difficult and I'm worried that if I do find one, it might too small/unisex size. I do prefer a 42mm watch case and the ETA 6497/6498 movement is common, diameter of 36.6 mm and finding cases for this is much easier. - My questions are ... 1.) Where can I find cases that fit a 32.4mm movement? Are they even available, or must be custom? 2.) How can I install the smaller 32.4mm movement in the more common larger cases for a 36.6mm movements? Are there larger clips that hold it in place? I can't video on this. 3.) If so... will I have to put a larger dial on the smaller movement to fill out the watch face? Is this possible? Are the tabs/feet behind the dial have the same distance apart for a 32mm watch to 36mm watch? Sorry for the questions but I think you'd be a great source of answers to my questions. Thank you and looking forward! Ben
Hey IE, thanks man! You can check here for a company that might have what you need: www.nawcc-index.net/ToolsParts.php#ToolsParts . Good hunting, and let me know if you find what you need. Take care, Bill
@18:24 Bill, screwdrivers are sized in millimeters or fractions of a inch. Color of the handle some manufacturer puts on yours is misleading (small quibble)
ForbinC, that's a big quibble...not between us, but if there's not a standard size with the different colors, it becomes very difficult to quickly pick a screwdriver from a wheel if it cannot be done by the colors. Let me check to see if any standard color-coding exists or if it's wholly dependent on the mfg. Thanks for bringing this up FC. Bill
Hey FB, I found this guide:
The most expensive part of the watchmakers screwdriver is the handle. The ends are usually universally coloured so you can quickly identify which screwdriver size you are working with. All the top brands use the same colour coding system:
Green - 200
Grey - 140
Red - 120
Black - 100
Yellow - 8
0White - 60
These are for the "top brands" ... so if these standards are not met, it may mean you've go a sub-standard set.
Cheers, Bill
@@watchartsci thanks, Bill. Those numbers in millimeters cannot be correct. Take the "red", for example - 120mm is HUGE and cannot be correct. thank you for researching that - I believe you took it from this webpage which states _The number next to the colour refer to the blade width in millimeters_
www.eternaltools.com/blog/complete-guide-to-watchmakers-screwdrivers
@@ForbinColossus guessing micrometers
According to this video and in his own words, he has shown us how to make a dog.
Hey Bill, super video, thank you for posting. My fantasy build would be a dirty dozen type watch with a second sub dial like above, but ideally in the 38-40mm range. Any suggestions for a movement for this? Would the above movement be too big? I'm not fussed about it being Swiss, Japanese or Chinese, but I would want it to be reliable and ideally not too expensive. Appreciate any thoughts.
So-Ko, if you haven't made a watch before, get the least expensive for your first one - the 649/78 (Sea-Gull 36xx) and a case it'll fit in. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci Thanks for the reply. Actually working on my first watch now! Still waiting on a few parts which are all Vostok or Vostok compatible because I figure it would be an affordable and easy way to approach my first build. But thinking down the road, really want a small seconds subdial to fit in a 38-40mm case. Any suggestions that won't break the bank, and have a decent amount of parts available for it?
Hey Bill.
Would it be possible as you mention. to make a watch like Junghans Max Bill Chronoscope?
Hey Seal, you'd need the movement, and the rest would be a matter of getting the case, dial and hands. Take care, Bill😷
Hey Bill
Can you show us how to regulate this home made watch? I am ready to do this and would like to get it as accurate as possible
Hi Robert, yes I will. That's really what you do first before your put it all together. At 4pm Eastern; 9pm GMT we're going to have a live streaming on making watches. Next Sunday we'll make an actual watch...but first adjusting it. Cheers, Bill
So if I send in my Longines (with some ETA movement) for service in an independent shop, they could very well replace the original movement with a brand new Seagull movement?
Hi Gang... yeah, they could. But by using the ample supply of ETA parts, there's no reason to do that. Find out what ETA movement is in the Longines, and then get one of the same movements and if your Longines has problems, just slip in the replacement ETA and just send your movement in to be serviced. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci Thanks for reply. By service, I meant the regular clean & lube every 5-10 years as suggested by the manufacturer, not necessarily fixing any problems. They could save a lot of labor by swapping the $35 movement in rather than spending hours to disassemble the movement, clean, and rebuild. They normally charge $200-300 for the "full service".
@@gang208 Yikes! My 84-year old guy hasn't charged me over $20 ... doesn't even use a timegrapher and does top-notch work. Find a local guy or gal. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci lol some of the bigger names will charge nearer the thousand dollars for a service! There aren’t many small watch repairers that will charge less than hundreds of dollars around. At least not in my country. You’re looking at around 150 dollars for a plain 3 hander to be serviced and more like 500 for a chronograph or something with complications.
@@murph8411 For my FP Journes and Parmigiani Kalpra, the charge for service and overhaul was over $1,000 each. Not cheap. For me, it was money well spent since it extended the life of the watch, and judging from the current price of these watches...I got off easy. Take care, Bill
Let’s not forget the Panerai PAM318 with the undecorated Unitas ebauche.
How could we forget the Brooklyn Bridge! With a movement that looks like it was picked up at a yard sale Panerai gave some of us a reason not to ever trust them again. I know that it's become somewhat a collector's treasure, and there are those who seek out the misbegotten cretin, but only if it has the original crummy movement. Go figure... Cheers, Bill
I wonder do these movements need tuned up or anything? I am looking at the ETA 2824-2 FOR A DIVE WATCH CASE.
Timothy, do you want a chronograph in a dive-watch case? Why not start off with something simple like an ETA 6498 or 6497 (or Chinese clone, ST 36 or 3600) in a dive watch case? A chronograph requires added complications that you may not want to tackle for a first watch. Check out th-cam.com/video/rDfde-nmtKg/w-d-xo.html to see how. Also, take a look at th-cam.com/video/yAjiT7CyA9M/w-d-xo.html for a project we're doing. Kindest regards, Bill
@@magneeto4391 If their dimensions are the same; then yes. Check the web site, 'eta.ch' and check the width and thickness of each. Take care, Bill
Hi Bill, I've jumped in with both feet, I've got 3 cases to work with so I've got quite a few questions to ask. I'd like to buy and fit movements for each, so the first question where should I be looking to buy movements? 2. What's the best way to measure for the case size, (diameter and height). Thanks for your time.
Hi Irwin, generally, I do it the other way around: decide on which movement I want to use (usually an ETA 6497/8 or a clone Seagull ST 36) and then find a case that will fit it. For measuring the case size, I use digital calipers ( www.amazon.com/dp/B07DC3XFYW/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07DC3XFYW&pd_rd_w=0KZgk&pf_rd_p=c83c55b0-5d97-454a-a592-a891098a9709&pd_rd_wg=x4LZh&pf_rd_r=SKX11N91BFC64XGNV48X&pd_rd_r=2956ce4a-6421-4985-b20a-aafe3c329f6d&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFRSlRPMENJU09MWUMmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAyMzUwNDkxRjU2MlVUM0Q4MU0xJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA2ODM1NjYzMk4wWlRWMUxGTldGJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsX3RoZW1hdGljJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ== ) So, what country are you buying from? If you're not in a hurry, China is the most affordable, but I'd scan eBay to see what you can find in your own country. So ... let me know the country. Cheers, Bill
How do you know the size of the movement ? I had a look on the Bay fo E and there wasn't many listing for this movement, but there was no dimensions on any of them
Hi Monty, check out Watchbase.com or ETA.ch ... then work out the one that best fits the Chinese version-like ST36xx have the same dimensions as ETA 6497/8. Cheers, Bill
@@watchartsci Been trying to get the parts inside the EU, not so may suppliers. Will check these places out. I did price up the parts for a basic wind up build on the bay of E COM, came to about 95 USD, Then I saw the same watch made from the parts I picked, including a strap which I didn't add to cart and it was 75 USD to buy, So to build it yourself was more expensive. Crazy prices for watches in China now . Thanks
Hey Bill thank you. can I ask a question? how can I actually build a swiss watch brand? does it worth it? how hard is it to find watch makers who are willing to help you do it? Thank you
Hi Tiktok ... starting your own Swiss watch brand ... here's what I would do: Buy Vaucher movements; cases by Voutilainen & Cattin, SA; ... have to sniff around the Swiss watchmakers for both dials and hands...take more watchmaking courses and put them together myself. But it would be expensive, and I'm not rich enough to do it. You could go a more frugal route with movements from Sellita ... Cheers, Bill
You can get actual complete hand wind Paris for less than 80...so OK you get the satisfaction of assembling a kit but its not a bargain.
Shell, that's true...but why make life easy? Cheers, Bill
Thank you for the video!
El gusto es mio! Guillermo! Kindest regards, Bill
Great video sir. Thank you.
Hey EUS! Thanks man! Kindest regards, Bill
Hi. Do you think the case @ 8:28 fit seiko NH35 movement? Cheers
Hi Self, that case was made for an ETA 6497/8 [or Seagull clone] The NH35 measures 27.4mm x 5.32mm and the ETA 6497/8 is roughly 36.6mm x 4.5mm. The big difference is that the NH35 is an automatic with a rotor making it thicker. However, the thickness of the case is around 11.5mm. What I'd suggest is for you to do a little detective work and 1) find a Seiko watch with the NH35 movement, and 2) then find the dimensions of the Seiko watch-width and height. As it stands now, the NH35 should fit in the indicated case but securing it may take a little extra work. Kindest regards, Bill
Thanks for the info Bill. Appreciate it.
Wonderful! Loved this!
Hey Peter, thanks man! We've just started a new project with an ETA 2892-A2 (or equivalent) ... join us! Step 1 and Step 2 can be found among the recent posts. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Can you show some links? please for those sites?
Hi Phil, the best way to start is to type in "ST36" or ETA 6497 a search window. Then once you decide on the movement, click the image search and when you find one you like, go to their web site. Compare lots of movements, features and prices. Only use this link as a "starting point." www.ebay.com/bhp/seagull-movement . For a case, it's best to specify the width and movement type. For example, "42mm case for ETA6498" Here's a German site with lots of cases and even cases with bracelets ... a tad more expensive: www.shop.sk-watchparts.com/cases/ETA-6497/9 . Here's the one from the video: www.ebay.com/itm/42MM-Parnis-Watch-316L-Stainless-Steel-Black-PVD-CASE-Fit-ETA-6498-6497-Movement-/182779501558 Now do some searches and leave a link and comment here on a good one you've found! Kindest regards, Bill
So how much would a clone/Franken watch from India that uses Seiko 5 movements be worth? How about those Chinese watches that use a Seagull movement that you can sometimes bid on on eBay.
They must be worth at least the price of the movement, case, and band.
Also, is a clone of a Seagull really a clone if nobody has ever heard of Seagull?
Tim, these are for learning something about watchmaking and having a little fun. Don't overthink it. Take care, Bill
??? i want to make a profit selling watches..can this be sold for anything
Lots of people doing that on eBay, Johnny. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Good vid
Hey Rico, thanks man! Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
Will you sell me the one you built?
No. You have to build your own Mashal. Take care, Bill
it's cheaper to buy a watch premade than to buy parts seperately and shipped seperately.
Grimshaw, it probably is, but the fun part is making one yourself. You can learn more that way ... but hey! ... that may not be something you're into. No problem. Take care, Bill
Great review 👍
Hey Burak, thanks man! Thinking of making a watch? Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Only thing that bothers me is the dial. I would hate to see Parnis written on the dial. Wish you could make them put your name on it like "Bill Sanders" or something. Maybe it can be done by buying one with no brands on it then laser graving it, or simply painting.
Hi Barış, I don't like anything on the dial either...I like what they call 'sterile dials'. If I'm going to put something on a watch, it must be pretentious!...just like a real watch company. I was thinking 'Montres par Bill ... how does that sound?Meilleures salutations, Bill
Hi Bill, yeah it sound pretty good, also "Montres par B. Sanders" may look lil crowdish but quite nice aswell, or maybe "Montres par B.S." with Italic font maybe. Cheers.
Maybe 'MpB' would be good? Or 'Montres par WBS' ... 'BS' has other unfortunate connotations... Cheers, Bill
They both sound pretty good. It's up to you can't decide for you but last two would be my options, yeah about "BS" I thought the same actually.
Can I just buy an ounce of gold, melt it and build an awesome gold case?
Sure River Pig. Take care, Bill
Now that's diy
Well done. Thank you.
My pleasure NRS... Cheers, Bill
Hey would you sell a watch you built Mr. Sanders?
Generally, I don't Jose. I give them to family ... kids and grandkids. Cheers, Bill
that bovet is beautiful!!!!
I agree Zakaria ... a fun watch to wear, too. Take care, Bill
0:36 what watch is that? Bova 1930?
JZ, it's a Bovet 1822 19Thirty Fleurier. It's a very unusual watch with a bow and crown lug. Take care and stay safe, Bill 😷
WatchArtSci wow what a splendid watch
Is this an automatic watch?
No Oscar; it's hand-wound. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci how lol Ng does it last after you wind it
@@oaa1986 46 hours.
@@watchartsci awesome thank you
$105 is expensive, $50 you can buy this watch same as your movement and dial etc.
Relative to $5,000 $105 is pretty good! But... 荒蛋 ... since you could make one for $50; that's even better! Cheers, Bill
Just take a standard 6497 to an experienced watchmaker and ask them if they can upgrade it. Some can modify these with more advanced parts if you can pay for it.
Shock Wave Thanks for the tip man! Cheers Bill
You have a Bovet, and an FP Journe? Streuth...and nice.
Talking about Panerai you are also paying for the name ; a lot of watchmakers have a brand, you are also paying for the brand, to be part of it. I'm not saying it's right, it just is what it is.
Making a watch like this is fine, but you are just buying parts from China and putting it together. It's great, you are getting a perfectly fine watch for not much. But what if you want to build your own, maybe not the movement but the case and buckle, stuff like that. Design your own and actually make it. I have a Sellita movement and I'm making my own case and back and bezel and all the rest. It's a completely different thing and has much more value than just buying a few parts on Ebay. Just saying; there are different levels of this thing we call watchmaking.
Nice video, by the way.
Chris, it sounds like you have something I do not: the talent to make a watch case! I have to buy all the parts, and I've broken parts while learning to make watch's; so I'd rather break a cheap movement than an expensive one. (Yes, I've broken a Sellita.) So, until I get better, there's no sense in buying expensive watch parts. However, that may be about to change! Join our live streams where we're plotting to get excellent watch movements and cases. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Totally get it. I've been in engineering for over thirty years and I'm finding that building one from scratch is not easy. So, buying parts from ebay makes sense, and is cheap. Might even do it myself so I can get more experience putting one together. I'll definitely check out that project you mentioned as I'm learning all the time on how to go about my own project. Thanks for the reply and stay safe.
97 at 9 oclock odd numbers, 98 at 6 oclock even numbers. easy to remember. thanks
The caliber names and numbers generally are not part of the position of the small seconds; so once you figure out this relationship, you'll not need to learn more. Take care, Bill
Liked and Subbed!
Hey IK! Thanks man! Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
This is a weird comparison.
Hello, Invid... the point is that we can end up paying for more than is necessary. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci True. I just feel it would have made a bit more sense to compare it to a watch of a similar style, not that that would necessarily impact the price difference. Video was very nice though, Bill!
I see your point Invid, I was sort of trying to put the minimal parts together, and I suppose if I could come up with a closer match, the price might double or triple-but even $300 would be a small fraction of the $5,000. Kindest regards, Bill
God bless you and family
Why thank you Override, and I wish you the same. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Good vid Bill, but disappointing. Such mark up thank you for making this vid. Putting it all together? Well that’s another story.
Well Bubba, it's a way for self-education about watches and it's a lot less expensive. Cheers, Bill
awesome!!
Glad you like it Matteo! Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
If you can't sell it for $5000 then it's not a $5000 watch. LOL If you have $105 in parts, then you might have a $300 watch.
What's the difference Texas Marine? You think there's $5k of goodies in a $5k watch. You ought to join us at 'Pretentious Watchmakers" (FB page) We just completed a $87 "Breguet Nouveau" with an enamel dial-the Breguet model is $22,000. I know a lot of Texans and a lot of Marines ... and one thing I'll say; they're pretty sharp. The more you learn about horology, the more you can separate the hyperbole from reality. Take care, Bill
Awesome hobby must take time 😅ehhiuuck
You can save a bundle, learn a lot about watches and save money at the same time, George.Take care, Bill