IMPROVED & EXPANDED Which 1970's Fighter Could Perform The Quickest Bomber Intercept? | DCS
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 พ.ย. 2022
- 1910's WWI: • Which 1910's WWI Fight...
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1960's (Attempt 1 of 2): • Which 1960's Fighter C...
1970's (Attempt 1 of 2): • Which 1970's Fighter C...
1970's (Attempt 2 of 2): • IMPROVED & EXPANDED Wh...
1980's (Attempt 1 of 2): • Which 1980's Fighter C...
1980's (Attempt 2 of 2): • IMPROVED & EXPANDED Wh...
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1910's WWI: th-cam.com/video/KW9py7vYYdg/w-d-xo.html
1940's WWII: th-cam.com/video/9Q_9G-bUsVY/w-d-xo.html
1940/50's: th-cam.com/video/IbystBLIYqA/w-d-xo.html
1960's (Attempt 1 of 2): th-cam.com/video/2KcH7XcHUR8/w-d-xo.html
1970's (Attempt 1 of 2): th-cam.com/video/7yyt2tW27qA/w-d-xo.html
1970's (Attempt 2 of 2): th-cam.com/video/OF5hvCX2a_4/w-d-xo.html
1980's (Attempt 1 of 2): th-cam.com/video/aZbcXuCrWNU/w-d-xo.html
1980's (Attempt 2 of 2): th-cam.com/video/uxNjDFcTDo4/w-d-xo.html
2000's: th-cam.com/video/uag8oqQ0aQc/w-d-xo.html
Of All Time: th-cam.com/video/X29N9TI7rdQ/w-d-xo.html
Would love to see the English Electric Lightning in a competitive intercept...
Run out of fuel
It litterally wont have the fuel :/
Yes lets see the lightning in a closer encounter, they were used and they did have enough fuel. Change the race within the lightning fuel specs.. and see what happens.
I don't think the EE Lightning is modelled in DCS or in any of the mods... at least that was the case when part one of this video was released.
versions with the ventral fuel tank had an 800 mile range and were faster.
It’s so entertaining to see more of the British fighters making an appearance. I love the Cold War era fighters from the British. Would love to see the English Electric Lighting in the 1960s interceptor video if that’s ever revisited.
The Lightning is horrifically limited on range. The have far shorter legs than the tornado.
I agree. And we all know the EE had the range because of the added external fuel tanks. It would be hard to beat by this group.
I suppose in one of these videos the F-14 driver will eventually learn how to navigate. I had hopes for Simba when I saw him flying an optimized climb profile, but nope, he took the scenic route as well.
Yeah manual climb profile for the F-14A should be 450kias or mach 0.7, simba over here basically stalling the jet at 25,000ft at 250kts. Its a shame no one can fly the tomcat properly. And hes flying at 43,000ft when the F-14 is most efficient at 37,000ft. F-14A at 37,000ft can do mach 2.33 in the coldest temperatures atleast from my testing, anything higher than 37,500ft in the tomcat you will just go slower
A properly flown Tomcat will win hands down. The bigger is overpowered on sim
..and he will eventually learn how to activate AFTERBURNER OF RIGHT ENGINE 🤦♂️🤦♀️
The Tornado GR’s are tuned for low level flight. They were intended to be tree top strike bombers. In Cold War doctrine. Carried on from the V bombers and a crude atttempt to fill TSR’s role.
The tornado F3/ADV (1979) were tuned for High altitude and would have beaten the IDS
The F3’s were faster then the Typhoon at altitude to put it in perspective.
So co grata to the coder of the GR4. They nailed it. So long at it can do 921 knots at sea level.
"The F3’s were faster then the Typhoon at altitude to put it in perspective." Are you on drugs? Not even close - Typhoon hurtles to 60,000 ft Tornado will struggle to get over 40,000! The only advantage Tornado has is fuel. Typhoon is much, much much faster at altitude.
Both the f2/3 and gr versions had great legs at low level. At medium and high level they were both very weezy. Not sure if the game models this correctly.
@@IgnoranceParanoia IIRC the ADV variants were slightly stretched and the extra space was mostly used for fuel to extend range.
Absolutely loving these videos - have you looked into Rutowski climb profiles? It's been a while since I did my aerodynamics courses but in essence, the best "time-to-climb" performance for a supersonic fighter is achieved by *diving* through the trans-sonic (~M0.8-M1.2) region. The drag there is so high you're better off trading altitude for speed, and then resuming your climb after reaching M1.2. Might work out well for some of the jets.
So happy to see the MiG 25. Held together with welds and rivets and still fast enough to burn I own paint off.
Mach 3
and its engines
UK Tornado GR's were limited to M1.3 as the air intake control system was inhibited (not sure if other IDS fleets were / are). The reason was they never needed to go much faster and with the small tanks on they were limited subsonic. The big jugs allowed them to go supersonic but the fuel consumption kinda negated having the extra gas.
The F3 was different. Fastest a/c in the world at LL, a dog above 15k, could do M2 but would have to be clean and come home very quickly.
4:00 Wow, in this head-on taxiing shot, the Harrier looks like it's already rotated for takeoff!
Someone commented on the EE Lightning and the response was not enough fuel. I’d like to see point defence interceptors on a much closer intercept such as the Lightning but also the Me163.
Versions with the ventral fuel tank had an 800 mile range and were the fastest versions.
A bit like the F-104, which is also famous for its rather short range:
"Some concerns were expressed by senior figures like Brig Gen Stanley Holtoner, who criticized the aircraft’s short interception range using only internal fuel. He estimated that this was only 150 miles against a target at 45,000 ft, but much less for those at higher altitude. In fact, although the F-101, F-102 and F-106 had better subsonic interception radii, the F-104 was the only fighter that could make a Mach 1.5 (or better) interception up to a distance of 150 miles with wingtip Sidewinders. Its interception times from being scrambled were superior to those of the F-106A, and it could perform interceptions at a greater range than any comparable fighter. The myth of the F-104’s lack of range may have originated in the tendency of senior officers and politicians to seek fuel-exhausting Mach 2 back-seat rides in the two-seat F-104B, which only carried 73 per cent of the fuel load of the single-seat aircraft."
@@steverpcb that ventral tank also carried the Lightnings 2 30mm ADEN cannons. The jet was originally designed without an internal gun
@@matthewcaughey8898 Not all versions with the tank had cannons.
Correction, the B and D tomcat's have more power OVERALL (mainly below 40K feet and below Mach 1.7ish) but the A's engines do actually produce much more maximum thrust at high speed and high altitude than the engines on the B and D, as you said due to the way the engines work and their power band.
I effectively like to think of the B and D have turbo chargers where they get a bigger boost more of the time, and the A having a supercharger that's really meant to stretch out and produce lots of power at the top end of its spectrum.
always like seeing the Tomcat. when y'all fly that and the Flanker, they are just so imposing loooking
DCS really needs to add more of the Century Fighters. It'd be really interesting to see how the Voodoo and F-106 in this sort of thing. You should try the F-104ASA again, without melting the engine
I was expecting Cap to try and get a jump start with a vertical takeoff
as was I
Absolutely! Why waste time on taxiing?
The GR4 should be way slower then the IDS, because the GR4 got it's inlet ramps fixed to reduce maintenance cost and therfor just can get up to ~ Mach 1.3.
I wanna see a version of this requiring you to get back, I thinknit would better show the overall capabilities of the jets considering they would be designed with that in mind
Nice to see a Super Etendard, quite strange to see it perform an air interception, as the aircaft was specialized in air to sea missions. It doesn't even have PC.
It was tasked with interceptions at some point in its service.
"Violent tends to blow up things much too early..." She's just such a hot stick, she can't help it!
The title led me to believe that this would be a tighter group of aircraft limited to manufactured in
the seventies. But, this also includes aircraft from the 1960s. Aircraft built in the 1950s were still front line fighters, for some countries, in the mid 1970s. It would be great to have an elimination tournament of ‘planes in use’ during the 1970s. Thanks for all of the effort and the great videos.
Tail of the Tornado always shocks me with how huge it is.
The Mighty Fin
I seem to remember they were gonna twin tail it…. Then just thought f it, let’s go BIG!
Not a single F-106 presented. Operational as an interceptor from the 60's to the 80's and specifically designed to be a bomber interceptor, it's prime operational dates are right in your window.
The ATC in that tower were probably like, "We're going to have an unscheduled fire drill and evacuate the tower because we don't want to watch this takeoff, nor do we want to be remotely associated with it for the sake of our careers."
Tornados did much better then I expected them to do as they were optimized for low altitudes
Whooosh! More dynamic, daring folks, flocking around!
It just feels wrong "Violent" Violet Moon not flying her Tomcat. It's her signature aircraft.
It was good to see the Mig 25 not winning.
The Super Etendard flight model was either hilarious or a joke depending on your viewpoint (or maybe whether you're French or not?).
Even so it was a fun run out for GR.
11:20
That sound was beautiful
9:01 "the mighty MiG-14!" 😂
The Tornado ADV is pushing the boundaries of "1970s" to the limits 😉 The basic Tornado is optimized for low level and is only good for intercepting ground targets.
Hey Cap and all your beautiful pilots. Been following Grim Reapers for quite a while and your videos never get old and are always great fun to watch. Just wanted to give you and your crew a big shout out. You all rock! Wiggens are wonderful 😊.
thanks appreciate the support
How about you make a race between the winners, or maybe the top 2, of each decade
wilco.
I love these competitions, they are fantastic!!👍🏼☝🏼👌✈🧿👏🏼
90's were best decade, agreed.
You should add an F-111 to the mix. I had one up to 2.25M at 38k'.
I'm sure they would if it was in the game..
I wish a developer would make one
On the Brits side, the BAC Lightning was the interceptor to be reckoned with !!!
On the US side, the F-106 was the premier interceptor for over the pole Russian bombers
I doubt very much the F-5 saw much service as an interceptor… it didn’t have the legs or the payload.
And on the Soviet side, the Su-15 was a front line interceptor.
But I guess these aircraft are probably not modeled in DCS
Shame 😞
Alot of countries that used the f5 used them as interceptor. Actually saw alot of combat too in that role. One Iranian F5 even managed to shoot down an Iraqi Mig 25 (They used them as bombers for a while so I`d say this can be counted as a proper Interception. Even though the Mig 25 already was on it`s way home and had no fuel for full afterburner anymore.) Other countrys that had them in an interceptor role would for example be Pakistan, Turkey and Swiss.
You should take the winner of each decade and see who comes out on top in that race.
Max speed for the Tornado IDS is listed as Mach 2.2 at altitude.
Yeah but that max speed is at 10,000m and it will go above 15,000m in level flight.
Ah beautiful to see tornados involved
Tornado is underrated
Too bad no Double Ugly; saw one yesterday at the
museum during a model airplane auction. It is the size of an apartment complex. They are incredibly FAST!
you'll have to do this again once we have a Phantom to play with
yup
Guessing the Tornado ADV isn't available? The F2 first flew in '79 so would just make it into the right decade and the ADV was ostensibly an interceptor, with the F3 eventually planned to be a BVR capable one. Would be nice to see how it would stack against the IDS versions but I have no illusions it would win here.
The F3/F2 also had a fuselage plug which added an extra 250 gallons of internal fuel capacity
Without missiles the ADV wasn't actually faster. It only had and advantage when loaded, cause the skyflash was half set into the planes fuselage.
@@TheNecromancer6666 indeed, I believe the F3 got uprated versions of the RB199 engines if memory serves, but then that would also be outside the 70's. They had a tiny bit more thrust in reheat but doubt it would make a difference here. The most powerful engine looks like the one they had for the ECR version but both of these would probably be heavier without stores than the IDS.
@@Riothamus I am from Getmany, all our Tornados were and are so heavily modified by now.... basicly our ASSTA 2 package had the stronger engines in Recces, IDS-T and ECRs.
These are great missions! 👍
How about having all MIGs compete to perform the quickest intercept? (Mig 15, 17, 19, 21, 23/27, 25, 29, 31)
Insane to do this, in the 1960's or 70's, without the English Electric Lightning.
I have harriers station near me(usa) it is always a joy to watch them on maneuvers, so much sleeker than the hornets at the same base.
Damn, those Tornadoes are awesome
F-86 Sabre VS A-10 Thunderbolt II
F-111 Aardvark VS MIG-27K
P-47 Thunderbolt VS SU-25 Frogfoot
Mirage F-1 VS Panavia Tornado
F4U Corsair VS A-1 Skyraider
MB-339 Aermacchi VS MIG-15
AV-8 Harrier VS MIG-23 Flogger
F-16I Sufa VS F-15STOL/MTD Fox2 Dogfight!🙏
Those Tornados looking mighty sexy
Thanks Cap & Reapers, I'm a happy subscriber 😁
Nice
If you're interested in a new round of races, It would be interesting to see which air frames can go the farthest at max speed w/ max fuel & Bags.
why did it look like the right F-14A engine is not on afterburner?
It’s amazing how much fuel the F1 carry’s internally and Haie long it can fly I like it very much
I believe, only the British Tornado F.3 was a true interceptor version (designed for low level interception actually). IDS and Gr.4 have different roles. The DCS Viggen unfortunatly also isn`t the Interceptor. No criticism, just pointing it out concerning the realism of your test. About the F.3 Tornado I`m not sure, but the interceptor Viggen definetly would leave the groundpound Viggen in the dust at high altitude.
Please do a race with all the first place winners from each era! Perhaps the 2nd place Planes as well!🙏 Lol and The Rafale ;)
yup
@@grimreapers awesome!😁✌
I know I am massively late to the party but the AJS 37 in DCS is not in any way far from the real life performance. That airframe is built for two things:
1. Pounding away at tree top level loaded to the brim with AG weapons
2. Going flat out on medium range scrambles against supersonic recce and/or air superiority fighters....
That´s why its doing so good in these races....
The F-14A engines were tuned for lower level flight, while the B's were better at higher altitudes. Somehow, the B's had the additional benefit of a lack of compressor stall.
Gentlemen, amazing video as always.
it’s good to see again the etendart argentinian camo
F-14A. Accelerate to near 600 knots at sea level, then start your climb. Climb to 35,000, then light dive until you are above 1.3m then slow climb to 36,000.
That Foxbat... are those Parani emblems from Strike Fighters
F106
Definitely the Six!
hmmm the mirage f1 could be interesting here
It’s been a fun series, how about a all winner’s race, would be fun
Couple others to do yet.
Original and remake notable absence of the F-15 A/B. But, hey, you included the Harrier in a race...that was pretty brilliant...🤣
Does DCs have the tornado yet ? Fell in love with the plane in in the first desert storm .
Love the video maybe just maybe expand to helos Ie 70s 80s and 90s fastest and heaviest hitting 🤔 thanks and please take it into consideration 😀
Imma post some DCS flight test data:
F-14A with 2 bags, clean belly
Takeoff zone 5, Pass 33,000 feet, level out and accelerate to M0.90 between 34,000 and 34,500 (all cockpit instrument indications)
to 33k fuel 33k to M0.9 fuel M0.9
300/M0.70 2:49 16800 3:19 16400
350/M0.75 2:34 16600 2:59 16300
400/M0.80 2:27 16600 2:46 16400
450/M0.80 2:17 16600 2:37 16300
450/M0.82 2:18 16500 2:33 16300
500/M0.80 2:15 16500 2:34 16300
M0.80 2:17 16500 2:34 16200
M0.82 2:17 16500 2:34 16300
500/M0.84 2:17 16400 2:32 16200
500/M0.86 2:19 16400 2:30 16200
500/M0.88 2:20 16300 *2:32 16200
500/M0.90 2:23 16200 *2:36 16000
* the time for the plane to level out somewhere around 34,500. Speed increases to more than M0.9.
Faster speeds have the additional benefit that they cover more distance over ground, therefore fuel / distance is lower. If it takes the same amount of fuel or less to get there, why not go fast?
thx
Why is the harrier using the runway? On a scramble VTOL and go. The book Joint Force Harrier compares the flight profiles of Tornado and Harrier on a QRA scramble, and because the Tornado took longer to take off and couldn't go supersonic over land, it was a much closer race than many people realised.
What was the point of having two Tornadoes ? The GR4 was simply the British version of the IDS. Both were strike aircraft and not suitable as interceptors at all. It’s the ADV/F3 you want. As for putting a Super Etendard in the race, well…….🤦🏻♂️
Did Cap just sing the opening theme from Geoff Crammonds F1 sim for the Amiga?
Not sure if im the only one, but for me background noises (Engines ,... )are really loud even when talking. makes it hard for me to watch and understand sometimes as a non native speaker/ listener.
nice Vid nevertheless!
That EOR is looking like Dallas airport lol
Honestly I wish we could see all of these as modules in game.
I've been watching all these races but unless I've missed it nobody ever uses a Lightning, is it not in the game?
Nope
Also it does not have the range. those things SUCK fuel. 155 Miles range in AB
The English Electric Lightning isn't in game.
SuperCap, at around the 13:14 mark of your video, I realized that I need to register a complaint with the 'Silly Engine in a Jet" department.
yup!
MIG 25 of course COULD do Mach 3 but destroyed it's engines as they would burn themselves out at that point so they kept it a fair bit slower. The book "MIG Pilot" explains that and is a great read.
In my opinion, DCS needs the F-111. RAAF (Australian Airforce) has proven them in an interceptor capacity & they have a top speed of Mach 2.5.
9:00 did you call that tomcat a mig-14? anyways love these videos! :D
How about doing these intercepts having the aircraft already airborne in a combat air patrol?
100% agree with you cap
Except for the ADV Tornado, wich actually went beyond M 2.0, the GR or IDS series have a Mach 1.3 clean airframe limit. The overall airspeed limit is based on wind tunnel tests only. Even worse for the IDS, the external tanks are subsonic only. To summ it up, everything goes faster than a Tornado. Push hard bois!
The IDS Tornado is considerably easier on the stomach than an IBS tornado
lols
@@grimreapers love it...some of my favorite aircraft in this....Tornado IDS and F-5.....do any of you guys fly in real life?
The F111E might have won. A pilot once reported to me its actual max level speed at 1800mph true. This was well after its replacement by the B1, so no harm done.
Im afraid you guys need to do this yet again... you need to stay low, build speed so the engines are producing max power the whole time... Doing those stupid high angle climbs is a SUPER slow way to intercept... You want to climb out at probably 15-20 degrees, but not untill you reach about mach 0.7-0.8
Tornado was not released to service until the 80s!
But the Tornado was actually a Seventies aircraft. It was conceived in that decade.
Was the right engine of the f14 out? Didn’t look like it had an afterburner?
I have a request. Watching this video, I wonder: Two harriers, QRA, both in shelters. One taxis to runway for a conventional takeoff, the other takes off vertically 100m clear of the shelter. How far does the VTO harrier get before 1, becoming ineffective or 2, overtaken.
I know it was multi role but would have liked to have seen a F4 Phantom in the lineup and the F8 crusader and crusader 3
Is it me, or does the right engine seem to be out on the F14-A about mid way through the video?
weird, no idea why
now do the bombers.... who can reach their target the fastest?
A Viggen has radar locked an SR-71 more than once.
From the front, yes.
You've missed out FIREFOX Cap 🤔🙂
ah...
Where is the F-15A. I was on them in 1978 at Bitburg AB. And in about 1979 we started to get the C and D models plus upgrading our As to C
The Panavia Tornado had a dismal rate of climb so I'm not sure about how accurate its performance is here?
The 76m/s found online seems really dumb tbh, it's surely isn't the fastest climbing jet, but it still has an empty thrust to weight ratio of more than 1. Looking at weight and thrust figures it should climb more or less like a Phantom.
I think that also has a lot to do with it always being heavily loaded for ground attack, and never really for Intercept mission? I may be wrong
@@Captain_Coleslaw Yeah most likely.
@@dade.9948 Yeah, I suspect so, the figures I have seen are pretty low. However it's (empty and clean) thrust to weight was similar to the English Electric Lightning, not far short of an F4E and was a bit more slippery with wings fully swept. Althought the IDS / GR4 had engines optimised for low altitude ... initial climb rate would be fine. The ADV being slightly heavier with engines optimised for higher altitudes and was slightly more aerodynamic. There are anecdotal comments stating the ADV accelerated quicker than F4 and IDS/GR4 at supersonic speeds.
Probably not very realistic in game.
i had a mostly nice life in the "west". But you can't beat the good old time....
Now I just want to point out that these 2 tornados are not the ones optimized for high altitude. The Tornado F3 interceptor was a very different jet from the GR4. For one the Turbo Union RB-199s were tweaked for better performance at altitudes over 30k. The F3 had a fuselage plug added into it which added an extra 250 gallons of fuel. Then there’s very significant modifications to the wings the Kruger flaps and short field capabilities were also sacrificed for better performance at 30,000 feet. Next there’s a completely different avionics fit. The F3 packed the Ferranti Marconi Foxhunter A24 which was an interceptor radar. ( the F3 was capable of carrying the AMRAM in later versions). The GR4 while fast will still loose out to the F3 now I’m aware it’s all you had to work with however I would hope you redo this when the F3 becomes available
IDS optimised for high altitude, GR for low level. Gonna say different models of the engine for each.
Same engine, different air intakes, with the ADV having variable ducts which are generally disabled on the IDS. They managed to eke a couple of thousand more kN of thrust out of it over the engines production lifetime though.
The GR4 is the same as the IDS - interdicton strike.
@@Bob10009 ah, what was the interceptor variant called then?!? ADV???
@@Davros-vi4qg yes edit: F2/F3 designation
@@Davros-vi4qg yes, AIR Defence Variant.
You might fly ballsy but you might also have an ifr tanker with you.
Start of the video: my money is on the MIG 25!
MiG-23 "Flogger" , F-106 Delta Dart, BAC Lightning, F-8 Crusader, CF-105 Arrow, IAI Kfir not present in the videos