Lady Boyle's Last Party | Stealth Game Changers

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 74

  • @Vizion0513
    @Vizion0513 5 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    Definitely my favorite mission in the game, but is kind of dampered when brisby will just tell you who the right Boyle is, kind of defeated the point of figuring out who was who by yourself when you can just have the solution as soon as you walk in the mansion.

  • @Sw3rt0
    @Sw3rt0 7 ปีที่แล้ว +29

    This channel is criminally small for how well produced the content is. I'm going to share this around a bit and hopefully get you some more deserved attention. You present things in a really clear and concise way. Having just done a replay of DIshonored 1 and it's DLC (A non lethal ghost playthrough at that!) in preparation for my playthrough of 2, this actualy revealed something to me I didn't know - I didn't know I could point the heart at people and receive information as well, now I"m curious if the same was true for summoned assassins in Knife of Dunwall and Witches! More testing is needed.

    • @StealthDocs
      @StealthDocs  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you, that means a lot to me! The summoned assassins are supposed to offer the same kind of narrative input as the heart, but they're pricey, so I've never used them.

    • @Sw3rt0
      @Sw3rt0 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah, but Daud gets access to pretty much infinite mana thanks to the bone charm that restores mana for drinking water, I got lucky and it was the first charm that RNG'd for me so I was able to pick up the first rank after I had upgraded my sight and jumping.

    • @StealthDocs
      @StealthDocs  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      I meant expensive in terms of the Rune cost! I often want to non-lethal my way through missions and summoning an assassin just didn't interest me enough to try it.
      I believe that the Daud missions are just...better than Dishonored's campaign. The character of Daud is more interesting, he's got a voice, a real sense of motivation and he rides the line between good and evil. Death of The Outsider has a lot to measure up to!

    • @mrsmith2191
      @mrsmith2191 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Stealth Docs: Great videos. You are a master at Dishonored. I'm surprised you don't have any Deus Ex games in your videos.

    • @StealthDocs
      @StealthDocs  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks! Deus Ex has cropped up a couple of times, but has yet to be a focus point for a video - like so many other stealth games. Rest assured Deus Ex will have its turn. :)

  • @DrugsForRobots
    @DrugsForRobots 7 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    What you mention about the Heart - that it is unlike anything else in the stealth game genre - is so true!
    It's one of the coolest ways of getting information, potentially changing who you assassinate and how, as well as giving you the location of the power-ups available within the level (runes and bonecharms), all while world-building and set-dressing!
    I'm not a Patron - yet - but I would adore a video looking at different ways of getting intel in stealth games. Dishonored had leaning around corners, zooming in with his spyglass, peeking through keyholes, Dark Vision (overpowered) and the Heart (amazing!) I still think the act of spying and getting info is the least explored design spaces in the genre.
    Regardless, good vid! Can't wait for the next one!

    • @StealthDocs
      @StealthDocs  7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Interesting idea for a video! I think that's something I'd put under the topic of "Information Space", a phrase Ken Levine used to describe Stealth Games. It's come up in a couple of videos briefly - I think I touched on it most with Mark of the Ninja in the 2D Stealth series.
      I'll put it on my topic list. There's a lot on there already, but I'll get to it. Thanks for watching! :)

  • @PatrickHorwood
    @PatrickHorwood 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    As a HUGE fan of the Dishonored series and this channel, it overjoys me to see this video! I don't feel enough people appreciate either, hope that changes!

  • @warrior12379
    @warrior12379 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I just watched the whole video and I reacon u did a pretty good job for what u were going for in it. U laid out the context behind the mission u were talking about and the story of Dishonored. U pointed out the different options a player has in the mission and how it can be approached. I've played this mission quite a few times just so I can explore the different ways of compleating it and I still learned something new about it from watching this video. Don't worry too much about the dislikes, mate. That's probably ppl who were either expecting a pure gameplay of the mission or just bunch of haters. They don't know what they're doing here.

    • @StealthDocs
      @StealthDocs  7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Cheers! I'm pleased that you found things to take away from this. The influx of four dislikes caught me off-guard, that's all. It's given me an idea for my next video, anyway. ;)

  • @Plutonia001
    @Plutonia001 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    iirc this mission was co-designed by Purah, one of the most popular Thief fan mission authors.

    • @apictureoffunction
      @apictureoffunction 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Arkane likes to hire from the modding community

  • @purgator
    @purgator 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    An absolute gem of a channel, I can watch for hours! Informative and knowledgeable, always.

  • @connorbarabe5772
    @connorbarabe5772 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Such an underrated channel, keep it up and someday it'll be huge!

  • @scottleland403
    @scottleland403 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    My dumb ass somehow never thought of pointing the heart at the sisters. That is a cool detail!
    Great channel. Have a sub.

  • @Drprophetius
    @Drprophetius 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Ah this is the legendary level where playtesters did not understand that they could go upstairs because a guard said "you can't go upstairs".
    Dislikes probably because the video is too long! You could cut the video by 10 minutes if you would want to by removing unnecessary information.
    On top of that it's Dishonored that people have conflicting opinions on. Some might also think think that this level is not "that" good, but I dunno. Best level of Dishonored is the final Daud DLC level in my opinion, the game suddenly has witches and the color green. Or perhaps the "Eminent Domain" mission witch had very interesting level design.
    Please keep doing videos mate, stealth games forever.

    • @CripplingDuality
      @CripplingDuality 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Lately I've been thinking the stealth genre is a write-off with a few exceptions, most notably Thief and Thief 2.

  • @eeveepeasy9889
    @eeveepeasy9889 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Absolutely fantastic video, can't understand the amount of dislikes.

  • @adams13245
    @adams13245 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You did a good job at looking at this level's interesting structure and mechanical design. The bit about the Boyle sisters having specific information given by the heart was something I didn't know, I guess I'll have to reinstall Dishonored and play it again.
    Have you played Dishonored 2, because I think it too has some stand out level design, such as another mission with multiple targets, where you can kill one, both, or even leave them be, without a lime jello filled dart in the neck. I'd be interested to see what secrets you could get from that.

  • @Torgo1969
    @Torgo1969 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    You should get your own squad for making such a good video. As the ranting RazorFist angrily reminds us, Dishonored has a horribly inferior sound system compared to the masterful first 2 Thief games. And don't get me started on the wooden and soulless dialogue of the guards, compared to the magnificence of Benny and his comrades from Thief. But I still greatly enjoy both D games and their DLCs, and I've replayed both of them. Lady Boyle's Last Party kind of reminds one of Undercover from The Dark Project, in that you are hiding in plain sight, but doing the detective work of finding out who exactly needs to go is intellectually enjoyable for a stealth purist like myself. Love your channel, man!

    • @StealthDocs
      @StealthDocs  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks! I enjoyed most of what Dishonored had to offer, though I didn't find its sound system aggravating. It's protagonist, on the other hand...

  • @Sacreth
    @Sacreth 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Found you because of stealthgamerBR.
    Nice video. Illl look deeper in your content :)

    • @StealthDocs
      @StealthDocs  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks! Did he give me a shout-out? Let me know and I'll be sure to thank him. :)

  • @StealthDocs
    @StealthDocs  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Some years later and I have to say, if I was making this video today I'd read the narrative of this mission with a lot less generosity towards the wealthy elite of Dunwall, particularly in the wake of recent events.
    I recommend this essay from Dead Domain, which does a much better job on a narrative front: "Of Rats And Royalty: A Dishonorable Examination of Class Struggle"
    th-cam.com/video/Eu10Jf55BhI/w-d-xo.html

  • @thiccboss4780
    @thiccboss4780 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Happy New Years Eve Stealth Docs!!!!

  • @StealthDocs
    @StealthDocs  7 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Well, that's new. Four dislikes already and no feedback? Am I missing something? O_o

    • @didijunior971
      @didijunior971 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Stealth Docs I know right? I'm also surprised!

    • @Gabrielnfs
      @Gabrielnfs 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      The video was very well done and that mission is certainly very well thought out. I figure it's just that most stealth fans don't really consider Dishonored to be all that good as a stealth game, and maybe seeing a mission from it labeled as a "Stealth Game Changer" might've been the cause of the dislikes.
      As for my own self, Dishonored in my opinion isn't necessarily a great stealth game, but it's not terrible either, and it has its moments. This mission is definitely one of those moments and is probably one of the most memorable missions in the game.
      I hope you won't be discouraged by the negativity, the video was very well made.

    • @StealthDocs
      @StealthDocs  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hey, fair enough. I won't pretend it's my favourite Stealth Game of all time, but I felt it warranted some words of praise for this mission in particular. Thanks for watching and the kind words!

    • @0x20pirate
      @0x20pirate 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Threw a dislike because so so many minutes aren't value for the viewer's time, doing a plodding retread of totally unnecessary detail about the game's story and just plain fluff. Done better elsewhere and not even relevant.

    • @StealthDocs
      @StealthDocs  7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Thanks for the feedback, sorry you felt that the narrative detail was unnecessary. I assume by default that viewers may not have played the games I cover and my goal is to make these videos as accessible as possible, while catering to those who know the games intimately. I also did this with my analysis on Sabotage At Soulforge from Thief II: The Metal Age, which is only a few minutes shorter. I would argue that narrative context is important, particularly when dealing with Immersive Stealth games, and Dishonored takes significant steps in this regard through the use of the 'heart' tool. A tool that required some detailed explanation!
      Hopefully you'll like the next project I make. Thanks for watching. :)

  • @TomCentral
    @TomCentral 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Go Alex! Good work mate. :)

  • @kikakasayo
    @kikakasayo 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Dude you are very good narrator I like your review

  • @pirat87pl
    @pirat87pl 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    MORE SPOILERS AHEAD - Wait, WHAT? Lydia isn't the target every time? I've played this mission at least 2 times and it was Lydia both times. I've also watched at least 1 playthrough of it and the target was the same. Was I just extremely unlucky?

    • @StealthDocs
      @StealthDocs  6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      RNG for the win, my friend. I always seemed to get Waverly.

  • @maxk.8273
    @maxk.8273 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Great video except for the weep for the heartless nobles portion of it.

    • @StealthDocs
      @StealthDocs  7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Haha, just trying to suggest an alternative viewpoint! By all means, let's murder the rich bastards. Thanks for watching. :)

    • @maxk.8273
      @maxk.8273 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      haha i got you, just always here for the proletariat.
      Great video :)

    • @Woodsie_Lord
      @Woodsie_Lord 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      stop larping

  • @СлоГорький
    @СлоГорький 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    You know a great thing, that wasn't in Dishonored?
    Benny. Benny the guard from Thief 2.
    I didn't care about lady Boyle by the time I got to her. I didn't care about any characters in Dishonored, becase they are all boring. There was no Benny. And by that I mean that there wasn't a single fun thing I could witness when sneaking, and it kind of took the fun out of sneaking itself.

    • @StealthDocs
      @StealthDocs  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      I guess the experience Dishonored offers is subjective, but that's more or less what Immersive Stealth is about. There were little elements of world-building that I enjoyed throughout the game, where NPCs chatted to each other about your target(s) or the mission area. If an 'Officer Benny' character had shown up, that would have been too much of a reference. I felt that there were plenty of call-backs to the Thief series without him.

    • @СлоГорький
      @СлоГорький 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      (It really isn't related to the video, so sorry about that. Just a thing I've been thinking about lately.)
      It's not so much about Benny specifically, but about someone or something that does what Benny did - fills the game with a bit of life.
      Characters talking about your target are all good and well, but there's nothing particularly human about it. They're still robots. Everyone's bloody serious and no one has any fun. "Gather for whiskey and cigars", right?
      Specifically in stealth games it is VERY evident when the world is lifeless because there's nothing to distract from it.
      And I feel that a lot of stealth games get that wrong lately - Dishonored, Thief 4, Aragami, Shadwen, Neon Struct. They're lifeless. To the point where Neon Struct actually has guards bleeping like robots! No wonder it failed so hard.
      Now, if you compare it to games that do things right:
      Batman: Arkham Asylum has delightful terrified mooks chatter for you to listen to.
      Deus Ex: Human Revolution has Lazarus (the pirate radio host) and some of the NPC dialogue is fun.
      Monaco has this one guard that writes letters home about how he was fired from his previous place that you have busted.
      Mark of the Ninja turns completely hilarious when you learn terrify.
      Gunpoint is hilarious to begin with - with you walking on the ceiling directly above the guard, spy movie style. But it is also prone to all kinds of silly accidents when you rewire stuff.
      And Thief 2 has Benny. And all of the guards are somewhat leaning on the fourth wall with their complaints about how they drink too much coffee and work too hard. Which is exactly what was happening at the studio during the development.
      It might be an important aspect of the stealth genre that is overlooked.
      PS
      Just look at this guy: /watch?v=67T5LzbhekU
      That's the point of the game when I think that lurking in the dark all this time was worth it.

    • @StealthDocs
      @StealthDocs  7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You've raised an excellent point. I always felt that Dishonored's NPCs (certainly the guards and Overseers) were the weakest aspect of the game experience because they were limited. Even the Heart didn't have much to say about them that wasn't recycled over time. The "whiskey and cigars" and "think you'll get your own squad" became memes within the Dishonored community due to how often you heard them. I guess this is one of the reasons Lady Boyle's Last Party stuck out for a lot of us: you could wander around and hear all kinds of conversations between the nobles on their businesses and the state of the city.
      It's a pity the same kind of detail wasn't given to NPCs elsewhere in the game, though I thought the DLC missions had stronger characters and NPCs overall - including the protagonist, Daud, whose voice and thoughts were a welcome reprieve from Corvo's silence.

    • @Sadin15
      @Sadin15 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      It speaks to the universe this game is based in. All three thief games had areas that were far from any urgent threats unlike the dishonored universe where plague is a pressing issue. But yes in some ways, there wasn't much humor in Dishonored compared to Garrett's snarky humor and random interesting dialogues you'd come across

  • @lprocksyd
    @lprocksyd 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great little niche channel, you should think about doing some theif fan mission reviews, theres literally hundreds of them to take your pick and some of them are fantastic and rival the missions in the official games

    • @StealthDocs
      @StealthDocs  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Neat idea! My focus is scattered across every kind of stealth game I can find, but the guys over at Inside At Last do a bunch of Thief-related content including interviews with FM creators. You should check them out for sure :)

  • @Ularg7070
    @Ularg7070 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    God damn this is a good video. I got no constructive criticism otherwise.

  • @thiccboss4780
    @thiccboss4780 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    yo, wtf is up with the dislikeS????
    imma comment again once i *actually watched the vid*

    • @StealthDocs
      @StealthDocs  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm stunned. I mean, I don't necessarily expect every video to do well, but four dislikes within minutes of uploading for a piece of analysis is pretty damned rare. Wonder what made people react that way?

    • @thiccboss4780
      @thiccboss4780 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      maybe evryone just cares about your retrospective series, plus Dishonored is not the most beloved in the stealth communitty u know? a triple a more violent stream lined reimagining of classic,underrated,cult Thief.
      im putting my money on that, cause so far this is very well edited and put together! geez you put your heart into this one, sure, i wish it was the new episode of stealth retrospective, BUT THIS IS BEYOND OF A GOOD hype awaiter, something to enjoy from you before the new episode is ready. again, not done watching quite yet

    • @thiccboss4780
      @thiccboss4780 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      allrighty then, iv'e watched the video! alot of visual editing in it, and pristine voice over.
      effort all around, maybe picking this game at this time was a bit unlucky of you, but the likes have rebalanced now.
      keep in mind it's just a button, those people aren't really disappointed with your work with good enough a reason to warrant a opinion, maybe planets aligned and some of your early subs happened to arrive here in a bad mood, so they're venting their anger here???
      i dunno, don't take it personally, to them it's just a dumb video that is not about what *they* wanted (which is i dunno) instead of a complex, analytical and thought provoking analysis on stealth ludology for _US THE NERDS_

    • @StealthDocs
      @StealthDocs  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks for the kind words! I guess if some people really hate Dishonored that much I shouldn't be surprised. Hey ho.

    • @thiccboss4780
      @thiccboss4780 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      omg i just thought up of a perfect April fools video for this channel:
      *Stealth Game Changers: Sneak King* the salt would burn
      btw, whats your new idea made from this?

  • @F2t0ny
    @F2t0ny 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Its Kind of like Hitman.

  • @DarkOrion7
    @DarkOrion7 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    nobody knows how look the corvo's mask because in canon Corvo is a ghost. but your explanation sounds logical.

  • @Migey11
    @Migey11 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I don't really see the point of this video. There's basically no analysis of any sort until the last 5 minutes, and even then, nothing is said that hasn't been said better and more succinctly by many others. The majority of this video is spent describing the mission, including many details that are kind of irrelevant (this is most egregious in the first half), and nor do you tie those things to any greater point. Much of what you say ties into points that the viewer can arrive at themselves, but you don't really lead the viewer to any of them except in the most shallow sense.
    Apologies for the harsh criticism, but I feel you need a stronger sense of what you're trying to say or more in-depth analysis, especially when talking about something as extensively covered as this level.

    • @StealthDocs
      @StealthDocs  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Fair enough and I don't expect everyone will like the way I choose to make these videos. I don't claim to offer any new or startling insight into the Stealth Game Changer topics; I'm certain that my previous one on Sabotage At Soulforge contains very little that hasn't been said elsewhere over the last 20 years.
      In hindsight, perhaps it would have been better to focus on the 'Heart' tool, but again, this has been discussed across multiple sites and videos. Basically, I wanted to scrutinise the narrative of this mission in particular - because a core argument I've made in the past is that narrative is hugely important in Stealth Games and the Stealth Genre as a whole, and Lady Boyle's Last Party goes a long way to solidifying that argument. The only way I could figure out how to do that effectively was to lay the story down for viewers, piece by piece, then get into the minutiae of gameplay, narrative and ludonarrative.
      It's an approach that obviously worked well for some viewers and not so well for others. If you were expecting something mind-blowing in terms of analysis, I apologise. This was kind of a 'marker' video, where I'm drawing attention to specific details in a particular stealth game, to lay groundwork for future arguments that will need precedent on this channel.
      I also needed the video to be accessible to anyone who hadn't played the game, which probably (no, definitely) didn't help veteran Dishonored players who wanted me to get granular from the start and found the story retread frustrating.
      Anyway, I'm hoping that the above can provide some degree of clarity for my choices. Hopefully my next project will be a bit more interesting for you. And thanks for the feedback! Whether negative or positive, I'm keen to hear from viewers and I will take what you've said into account for future videos. :)

  • @smolqnbg
    @smolqnbg 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    so then...it's a hitman level. What's so new about it?

    • @thiccboss4780
      @thiccboss4780 7 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      remember that time 47 kidnapped his target to a creepy fanboy instead of killing it?
      no. thats whats new, also getting info on the target's personality DURING the mission instead of BEFORE the mission

    • @StealthDocs
      @StealthDocs  7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Good point and that did occur to me! Even so, does Hitman have a mission where you don't have to kill anyone and there's a non-lethal option that'll make my skin crawl?

    • @smolqnbg
      @smolqnbg 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      well, i guess ethically it isn't since in hitman you HAVE TO kill but the principle is the same. Big social party setting wherein observation, subterfuge and mingling with the crowd is the optimal approach. particularly in blood money which introduced accident kills(now that's a game-changing moment for stealth if you ask me)
      still loved this level for the record :)

    • @StealthDocs
      @StealthDocs  7 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      There may well be a Stealth Game Changer episode on Blood Money! I'm also tempted towards the original Hitman: Codename 47 for it's Lee Hong Assassination level, where adopting disguises really came into play.
      I hope viewers didn't assume I meant that Dishonored was the first game to have a 'hide in plain sight' scenario. It's narrative elements (learning everything or nothing about the Boyles) and openness to different levels of player interaction (Kill everyone, kill no-one, kill your target or kidnap your target) are what sets it apart from the rest of the Immersive Stealth crowd, and these are what I was trying to draw attention towards.