Loved the video. A couple notes on some of the woes: Scenes: the incrementing of scenes and patterns is meant to fit the quick, linear song sketch workflow. The idea is that you will construct a song out of scenes sequentially, so you start with S01 (or whatever) and then when you're ready to move to the next distinct part in the song you commit, which will leave the last scene how it was and give you a brand new set of patterns that you will presumably alter for the next part of the song (without disturbing the scene you had before you pressed commit). I don't like the name "commit" because I think it saves whatever you're doing in projects, scenes, patterns anyway even without committing. It's basically a "clone" function and committing for the purpose of saving your progress is not necessary. Fader/Mutes: I think you're conflating two distinct functions - the group project volume (GPV) and the group-specific fader function (FF). My understanding is that when you press and hold groups and use the fader, it adds the group to GPV which controls the level from 0 to the current FF level setting*. You don't need to set the FF to control the level beforehand because that's a different function - holding groups and using the fader always controls level and only level, and it's independent* from the FF. That said, I've run into that "quirk" too and it does seem like using the level FF on a group affected by the PGV should automatically release the group from the GPV control. * As I'm playing with mine, if the FF for a given group is set to level before using the GPV, it actually seems to override your FF setting. If any other FF is selected, then the GPV goes from 0 to the current level setting and has no effect on whatever param the FF is set to, but if level was selected before using the GPV, it's 0-100 and it tramples your FF level setting. That actually does seem like a bug to me because if your drums sound best in the mix at 65 you shouldn't have to find 65 again when you're resetting the GPV (and you can't, because GPV is indicated by fader icons and it doesn't show the # value). You probably forgot what value it was set to anyway!
Yes on Scenes - I’m actually doing a deeper video right now on that workflow… decided to keep it light in this video - so thanks for the perspectives! On Faders - I think the amount of effort needed to describe how it works speaks volumes about the design needing to be improved :) - it’s simply not simple 😅 - and I’m *confident we’ll see a redesign in a future firmware (* hopeful). Thanks again!!
@@rochefsky I hear you! For me, the lack of sequencing or pattern chaining is a blow I didn't see coming. Seems like a strange limitation that you can only have one scene playing on a loop until you manually switch scenes. I'm pretty sure you could chain patterns with every PO. That said, I think I'm using and exploring it more without the pressure of writing a full song.
@@morbidhandle13x yes - definitely seems like it was meant to lean toward live performance - which is why the lack of strong mute controls is confusing... but all that said - it's still fun :)
Yes - great point - I didn’t mention Solo, just muting… surprised that there’s no key combo like that for Mute - maybe Shift/Group can be used in next firmware 😅
Great video. I got mine about three days ago and it’s been fun the whole time. Yeah, it’s got some minor issues and weird surprises (like the fact that key/scale is global - WTF?), but it’s honestly better than I expected at release. I do feel fortunate that mine works fine, physically, so far. Just wanted to share that while there is currently no group muting, there *is* group soloing. It’s not sticky, so it’s still not perfect, but it’s better than nothing. To solo one or more groups, press the FX button and the related group button (and keep holding). It has been working really well for me, especially combined with actual effects on the number buttons. Try it! However, be careful not to fat-finger and hit the erase button rather than the FX button. That’s never happened to me. Nope, not once 😅. I think they will inevitably address issues, and hopefully add more features. Is it too much to hope for resampling and effect-per-group. Maybe, but we can always think big ;-)
@@rochefsky Yeah, I think with the limited buttons they ended up having to overload some of them. Given that I tend to use soloing with the effects a lot of the time, I guess it’s a reasonable choice. However, I’m finding new ways to twist my fingers around, that’s for sure. I meant to comment on the Stage/Pattern structure. It’s weird, non-intuitive, and semi-broken, in my mind. I’ve discovered some mysterious patterns (that I really didn’t remember creating) when scrolling around, and it’s sometimes been a really cool find, sometimes definitely not. Other times, I’ve found dozens of empty patterns with filled ones sprinkled in, like this sparsely-populated wasteland of patterns I’ll never quite make sense of. All that is probably just from my confused attempts to get around and try different things before I better understood things?
YES@@mike.thomas - exactly the issue with the automatic pattern creation every time you commit a scene... it duplicates every pattern - even empty patterns - rather than pointing back to the prior empty pattern from the committed scene... I understand their thinking on this, but it only suits one use case well - the "build up" workflow...
You don't need commit though, just go to a empty scene.. it is not a save, just a build up feature.. they should have called the button something else. Btw, they have confirmed they are gonna give it resampling.
You can (un)mute any group at any time by holding the group button(s) and sliding the fader up or down. For the rest I loved your overview and share your joys/concerns, loving this unit so far. I've made more and better music in the last couple days than I have in the last year. The PO33 was great, this thing is even greater.
Thanks - the inconsistency in fader behavior is what threw me off - as I don’t need to hold the group button when normally fading level of a single group. I think would be a great mute/unmute option in future firmware 😁
yeah its confusing but holding a group button like A and sliding the fader is a different and an independent volume than the regular fader set to level. so you have 2 volume controls per group 😅
Mine arrived yesterday and I’m deciding if I should keep it - Resampling would solve a lot of the limitations of the device, especially lack of effects. Automating the punch in the effects would also be nice.
You can use legos to concoct a foot pedal that you can attach to the sampler button so you you can play hands free when sampling a guitar or a Jingtingler in my case! Jeez
great video on this device! I did not know about the scale setting not being project based. that might have taken me a while to discover!! I think it is cool that you can have 9 projects on this thing...I am kind of trying to limit myself to like 3 at a time...for me this was a replacement for the PO KO so my expectations were very much exceded, this is more than 3 times what the original could do and so much fun to have a larger version with so much visual feedback. It confuses me a little why they didn't go with the original way of doing step sequencing and trimming samples is so weird, to just have numbers and no real visual feedback, but all in all it is so immediate and fun to use :)
Perhaps it was a challenge with the amount of quantizing options? Definitely seems like something they built into the hardware and then couldn’t find a clean way to deal with triplets etc and then decided it wasn’t necessary
@@rochefskybut equally - assuming TE went out of business and closed the web app - the software build for (say) win11 probably wouldn’t be updated for (say) win20. You might get a few more years using a downloaded software app over a web app, I get the view on web apps, but on balance I’ll take convenience now over hoping to one day show my grandkids some weird sampling software that you can bet they probably wouldn’t be interested in anyway haha
PLEASE HELP: I just got my unit today and I'm a total newbie. I erased my first project because it was not that good and then the pads are not playing normal sounds anymore. When I am in group A (drums) some of the pads does not have sounds and no. 9 plays sound 510 (not a drum sound). I guess I am in some kind of mode where the key pads are not playing original sounds. Can somebody please tell me how to get back to standard (without erasing all preloaded sounds)? I wen through the manual but I can't find a solution. Thank you so much.
Hi - if you erased the project, it’s likely that the sounds assigned to all pads in all groups were “removed” - meaning the pads were no longer assigned any sounds. It is unlikely the sounds were erased from the library unless you explicitly erased a sound. But - all that said, not sure why some of your pads have sounds and some do not… In that project (P1?) - go to SOUND mode - then click group A - then hold each pad to see which ones are blank and which have sounds… I would also suggest plugging usb to your computer and using the sample app TE provides (link in manual) to quickly see the whole sound library and which sounds are assigned to each pad in each group in each project.
Also - I have a short video on how to copy whole sound groups from one project to another if that’s helpful to have a starting point other than blank or random on the project you erased: Duplicate whole GROUPS of SOUNDS from one project to another on the Teenage Engineering KO II EP-133 th-cam.com/users/shortsWhW2sp0jSJ8?feature=share
@@rochefskyThank you very much. You are absolutely right. I erased project 1 and expected all sounds to be on the same pads as before but they are not. When I open another project the sounds are in “original” position but I now understand that a specific sound not “lives” on a spefific pad. Christmas is saved 😅 Thanks again.
Lol win#1 and win#2 is actually a spit in user's faces because it was made to reduce costs only. It's not "a good limitation for creativity", it is "we don't care about you! just pay us and fuсk off"
Great video. Although, the more content I watch about it, the more contradictory opinions I hear. Here, as an example, you admit the scenes/patterns architecture is bad…and yet call the device fairly simple and immediate to use. And again. 300$ is not cheap. At any rate. This goes on to prove how bad this product really is. Half baked. That’s its core. It’s a half baked product from a bunch of engineers that clearly never learned any lessons. The op-Z is still, to this day, riddled with issues. Too bad, tho. Cause TE has some amazing ideas. Someone needs to disband their horrendously toxic management and make TE what it is supposed to be : a boutique developer’s dream with a hefty price tag but a crystal clear communication and pristine quality philosophy. Oh. And before I get bashed - I’m more than 5000€ in their ecosystem and just went through two dead EP-133 units. But I did love your video - probably one of the most unbiased one!
thanks for the perspective. I feel like I can have loads of fun with the device without using scenes at all, so I do call scenes a con in it's current form but still try to figure out how they might be useful the more i play with the device. I find it's just an accelerator for duplicating patterns. (did another video on Scenes after this one). TE does play on both ends of the market - high priced elite devices (OP-1) and low end approachable fun (PO series)... Hoping we see firmware updates to EP-133 to make it a stronger player in the $300 range.
@@rochefsky I subscribe to your point of view 100%! The firmware is flimsy and confusing at times. Which is sad, cuz the unit sounds like a lot of fun. TE probably made a ton of money. Although I think it’s fair to say they should’ve spent money somewhere else than on a pricey artwork. Anyhoo. On my way to watch your Scenes video!
![ว้าว!ลุงบีมแบกทองมารับขวัญหลานกันยกบ้าน [cc] แดนแพทตี้ SS2 | EP.49 |](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Osihq1OAs-4/mqdefault.jpg)
Glad I found your channel - Very nicely done and clear communication. Love it.
Thank you!😊
Nice. I didnt know about the Lego connectivity. I will have to try on mine 😎
Yeah - new rule - all synths must be LEGO compatible 😁😁
i too share your (over) confidence in web based apps 😆
Nice to know I’m not alone! I definitely prefer that for the firmware updates too - beats SD card or separate local apps any day. 😅
Fantastic level of detail, I found out things I haven’t heard about yet! Thanks so much!
Very happy it was helpful! I’ll be diving deeper (but shorter I hope) into Scenes and workflow soon too :)
Loved the video. A couple notes on some of the woes:
Scenes: the incrementing of scenes and patterns is meant to fit the quick, linear song sketch workflow. The idea is that you will construct a song out of scenes sequentially, so you start with S01 (or whatever) and then when you're ready to move to the next distinct part in the song you commit, which will leave the last scene how it was and give you a brand new set of patterns that you will presumably alter for the next part of the song (without disturbing the scene you had before you pressed commit). I don't like the name "commit" because I think it saves whatever you're doing in projects, scenes, patterns anyway even without committing. It's basically a "clone" function and committing for the purpose of saving your progress is not necessary.
Fader/Mutes: I think you're conflating two distinct functions - the group project volume (GPV) and the group-specific fader function (FF). My understanding is that when you press and hold groups and use the fader, it adds the group to GPV which controls the level from 0 to the current FF level setting*. You don't need to set the FF to control the level beforehand because that's a different function - holding groups and using the fader always controls level and only level, and it's independent* from the FF. That said, I've run into that "quirk" too and it does seem like using the level FF on a group affected by the PGV should automatically release the group from the GPV control.
* As I'm playing with mine, if the FF for a given group is set to level before using the GPV, it actually seems to override your FF setting. If any other FF is selected, then the GPV goes from 0 to the current level setting and has no effect on whatever param the FF is set to, but if level was selected before using the GPV, it's 0-100 and it tramples your FF level setting. That actually does seem like a bug to me because if your drums sound best in the mix at 65 you shouldn't have to find 65 again when you're resetting the GPV (and you can't, because GPV is indicated by fader icons and it doesn't show the # value). You probably forgot what value it was set to anyway!
Yes on Scenes - I’m actually doing a deeper video right now on that workflow… decided to keep it light in this video - so thanks for the perspectives!
On Faders - I think the amount of effort needed to describe how it works speaks volumes about the design needing to be improved :) - it’s simply not simple 😅 - and I’m *confident we’ll see a redesign in a future firmware (* hopeful).
Thanks again!!
@@rochefsky I hear you! For me, the lack of sequencing or pattern chaining is a blow I didn't see coming. Seems like a strange limitation that you can only have one scene playing on a loop until you manually switch scenes. I'm pretty sure you could chain patterns with every PO. That said, I think I'm using and exploring it more without the pressure of writing a full song.
@@morbidhandle13x yes - definitely seems like it was meant to lean toward live performance - which is why the lack of strong mute controls is confusing... but all that said - it's still fun :)
@@rochefskyBut I do believe they are there, juste a different approach. Just hold in whatever groups you what muted and pull down the fader.
12:28 You can solo tracks by holding fx and abc or d (or any combination)
Yes - great point - I didn’t mention Solo, just muting… surprised that there’s no key combo like that for Mute - maybe Shift/Group can be used in next firmware 😅
Great video. I got mine about three days ago and it’s been fun the whole time. Yeah, it’s got some minor issues and weird surprises (like the fact that key/scale is global - WTF?), but it’s honestly better than I expected at release. I do feel fortunate that mine works fine, physically, so far.
Just wanted to share that while there is currently no group muting, there *is* group soloing. It’s not sticky, so it’s still not perfect, but it’s better than nothing. To solo one or more groups, press the FX button and the related group button (and keep holding). It has been working really well for me, especially combined with actual effects on the number buttons. Try it! However, be careful not to fat-finger and hit the erase button rather than the FX button. That’s never happened to me. Nope, not once 😅.
I think they will inevitably address issues, and hopefully add more features. Is it too much to hope for resampling and effect-per-group. Maybe, but we can always think big ;-)
Yes on the group Solo - good point - wish it wasn’t hidden within FX.. ha! on the erase potential hazard! Thanks for reaching out!
@@rochefsky Yeah, I think with the limited buttons they ended up having to overload some of them. Given that I tend to use soloing with the effects a lot of the time, I guess it’s a reasonable choice. However, I’m finding new ways to twist my fingers around, that’s for sure.
I meant to comment on the Stage/Pattern structure. It’s weird, non-intuitive, and semi-broken, in my mind. I’ve discovered some mysterious patterns (that I really didn’t remember creating) when scrolling around, and it’s sometimes been a really cool find, sometimes definitely not. Other times, I’ve found dozens of empty patterns with filled ones sprinkled in, like this sparsely-populated wasteland of patterns I’ll never quite make sense of. All that is probably just from my confused attempts to get around and try different things before I better understood things?
YES@@mike.thomas - exactly the issue with the automatic pattern creation every time you commit a scene... it duplicates every pattern - even empty patterns - rather than pointing back to the prior empty pattern from the committed scene... I understand their thinking on this, but it only suits one use case well - the "build up" workflow...
You don't need commit though, just go to a empty scene.. it is not a save, just a build up feature.. they should have called the button something else.
Btw, they have confirmed they are gonna give it resampling.
@@wurlinnawurl Sweet!
Very good snapshot on where we're at with the EP-133! Thanks!
Thanks! Doing a shorter deeper on on the Scenes feature soon
You can (un)mute any group at any time by holding the group button(s) and sliding the fader up or down. For the rest I loved your overview and share your joys/concerns, loving this unit so far. I've made more and better music in the last couple days than I have in the last year. The PO33 was great, this thing is even greater.
Thanks - the inconsistency in fader behavior is what threw me off - as I don’t need to hold the group button when normally fading level of a single group. I think would be a great mute/unmute option in future firmware 😁
yeah its confusing but holding a group button like A and sliding the fader is a different and an independent volume than the regular fader set to level. so you have 2 volume controls per group 😅
Mine arrived yesterday and I’m deciding if I should keep it - Resampling would solve a lot of the limitations of the device, especially lack of effects. Automating the punch in the effects would also be nice.
Yes resampling MUST be on their firmware list… I want it too!
Wow. Great video. Mine arrived with a non functional fader. Back it goes 😢
Aw bummer - I have one in a box as a gift for someone - I’m tempted to open it to check…
Great video, explains a lot!
Thank you!
You can use legos to concoct a foot pedal that you can attach to the sampler button so you you can play hands free when sampling a guitar or a Jingtingler in my case! Jeez
Oohhh nice idea :) - I must host a design contest!
great video on this device! I did not know about the scale setting not being project based. that might have taken me a while to discover!! I think it is cool that you can have 9 projects on this thing...I am kind of trying to limit myself to like 3 at a time...for me this was a replacement for the PO KO so my expectations were very much exceded, this is more than 3 times what the original could do and so much fun to have a larger version with so much visual feedback. It confuses me a little why they didn't go with the original way of doing step sequencing and trimming samples is so weird, to just have numbers and no real visual feedback, but all in all it is so immediate and fun to use :)
Thanks! Yes I miss a sample editing visual too - but definitely having fun with the larger form factor - more than I did with the PO-33 too :)
Perhaps it was a challenge with the amount of quantizing options? Definitely seems like something they built into the hardware and then couldn’t find a clean way to deal with triplets etc and then decided it wasn’t necessary
great vid!
Thank you! Will also be doing a more detailed but quick “starting from scratch” sort of video soon
20 years from now, when you want to pull this out and show some youngins... and the sample tool website is long gone...
Fair point!
@@rochefskybut equally - assuming TE went out of business and closed the web app - the software build for (say) win11 probably wouldn’t be updated for (say) win20. You might get a few more years using a downloaded software app over a web app, I get the view on web apps, but on balance I’ll take convenience now over hoping to one day show my grandkids some weird sampling software that you can bet they probably wouldn’t be interested in anyway haha
Good video
Thanks!
PLEASE HELP: I just got my unit today and I'm a total newbie. I erased my first project because it was not that good and then the pads are not playing normal sounds anymore. When I am in group A (drums) some of the pads does not have sounds and no. 9 plays sound 510 (not a drum sound). I guess I am in some kind of mode where the key pads are not playing original sounds. Can somebody please tell me how to get back to standard (without erasing all preloaded sounds)? I wen through the manual but I can't find a solution. Thank you so much.
Hi - if you erased the project, it’s likely that the sounds assigned to all pads in all groups were “removed” - meaning the pads were no longer assigned any sounds. It is unlikely the sounds were erased from the library unless you explicitly erased a sound. But - all that said, not sure why some of your pads have sounds and some do not…
In that project (P1?) - go to SOUND mode - then click group A - then hold each pad to see which ones are blank and which have sounds…
I would also suggest plugging usb to your computer and using the sample app TE provides (link in manual) to quickly see the whole sound library and which sounds are assigned to each pad in each group in each project.
Also - I have a short video on how to copy whole sound groups from one project to another if that’s helpful to have a starting point other than blank or random on the project you erased: Duplicate whole GROUPS of SOUNDS from one project to another on the Teenage Engineering KO II EP-133
th-cam.com/users/shortsWhW2sp0jSJ8?feature=share
@@rochefskyThank you very much. You are absolutely right. I erased project 1 and expected all sounds to be on the same pads as before but they are not. When I open another project the sounds are in “original” position but I now understand that a specific sound not “lives” on a spefific pad. Christmas is saved 😅 Thanks again.
Lol win#1 and win#2 is actually a spit in user's faces because it was made to reduce costs only. It's not "a good limitation for creativity", it is "we don't care about you! just pay us and fuсk off"
Guess I’m looking for the positives but get your point!
Great video.
Although, the more content I watch about it, the more contradictory opinions I hear.
Here, as an example, you admit the scenes/patterns architecture is bad…and yet call the device fairly simple and immediate to use.
And again. 300$ is not cheap. At any rate.
This goes on to prove how bad this product really is.
Half baked. That’s its core. It’s a half baked product from a bunch of engineers that clearly never learned any lessons. The op-Z is still, to this day, riddled with issues.
Too bad, tho. Cause TE has some amazing ideas.
Someone needs to disband their horrendously toxic management and make TE what it is supposed to be : a boutique developer’s dream with a hefty price tag but a crystal clear communication and pristine quality philosophy.
Oh. And before I get bashed - I’m more than 5000€ in their ecosystem and just went through two dead EP-133 units.
But I did love your video - probably one of the most unbiased one!
thanks for the perspective. I feel like I can have loads of fun with the device without using scenes at all, so I do call scenes a con in it's current form but still try to figure out how they might be useful the more i play with the device. I find it's just an accelerator for duplicating patterns. (did another video on Scenes after this one). TE does play on both ends of the market - high priced elite devices (OP-1) and low end approachable fun (PO series)... Hoping we see firmware updates to EP-133 to make it a stronger player in the $300 range.
@@rochefsky I subscribe to your point of view 100%!
The firmware is flimsy and confusing at times. Which is sad, cuz the unit sounds like a lot of fun.
TE probably made a ton of money. Although I think it’s fair to say they should’ve spent money somewhere else than on a pricey artwork.
Anyhoo.
On my way to watch your Scenes video!
Thanks!