I had to return two ko2s but did have fun with them before they broke. The sp404 is a beast. The new update just changed the game for how I make music.
@rochefsky the second one I got, just stopped making sound, and the first had connectivity issues with my computer or fl studio. It was cool. Drag and drop feature with the sp404 is a life savor
Yes the SP404 is a machine that can do whatever you need it to do! Some machines are one dimensional but the SP can be your primary sampler, or primary effects…your live performance box, or you can use it how I do as a sound module. I store all my drums and instruments sounds on an SD card and use it like that! In the future I’ll dabble more into the features included in the new update!!
Yeah they are both samplers, but I feel like both fill a different niche. 404 is for people who love to work with samples, where the 133 is for people who hate working with samples. Sampling to me is tedious, so I prefer the simplicity of the 133 work flow.
@@iShredStreets The K.O. II is alright, compared to a Digitakt regarding sampling, however there's no side chain in the KO, so I bounce that to the DAW (I produce mainly house and lofi). Just trim while holding shift and have a decent ear for manual chopping.
@@beatsandstuff I'm thinking of selling the K.O. II. I've started using Renoise and I'm getting much more done than with the K.O. II. Meanwhile the K.O. II is collecting dust. I like the clicky buttons on it though.
@@damelos4039 sometimes I like to pretend it’s a calculator and punch in the numbers I’m working on as if it were a calculator. Good way to goof off and get some random inspiration lol
I should clarify that I work from home, so nobody sees/hears what I do when I play around with it. But yes, I would totally try sneaking this into the office. I guarantee nobody would know what it was 😂
Wow! It's like being in class and you're the professor. I don't have to take notes because I can rewind and download but what a GREAT video! Thanks. Going to check out the others you mentioned too.
Subbed. Can’t believe I hadn’t found your channel until now. The visuals/graphic nature of your comparison is something other TH-camrs could really learn from; definitely resonates with me.
Prices seem to fluctuate almost on a per day basis. Got my SP a couple of weeks ago 449 (EUR, incl. 19% tax) where the KO would have cost me 379, too. But the latter is now 349 where the Roland is 479, I guess due to higher demand and availability. At first the KO looked so fast and more creative, but after all I’m very pleased with my choice for the seemingly complicated SP… but muscle-memorizing and navigating the shortcuts walhalla became a breeze after two to three weeks of playing with the ‘instrument’. And, videos like these were extremely helpful in the process. So thanks, as you compare both objectively and very clear 👌🏻
I have both I like the simplicity and how fast the ep 133 is to make a beat, on the other hand I prefer the sp404 is way more complex and I can make full tracks with it I just wish it was a tad smaller
I regret I ever purchased the EP 133. It's more like a novelty item now...a cute little studio decoration. The SP-404 crushes in all areas: FX, portability, sequencing, memory expansion, various recording modes, etc. I'd been looking for a powerful looper and discovered that this feature was implemented into the 404 in the last firmware update. The SP is miles ahead - even with the quirky workflow.
That’s a big one… I would love to find the time for that, but given my new startup, it may be a while ;) - check out @JAdeWii_ channel - she’s a guru with SP404
After purchasing SP404mk2, I realized that MPC live2 was a better device than I thought. However, SP404 ii was much lighter than expected. Including the maschine drum, I already have three drum machines, but I was curious about the KO2 again.
With all the devices I’ve used, I’ve still not tried any NI/masculine instruments and still haven’t gotten my hands on an MPC! (But I did have the Akai Force for a while). KO2 is definitely in a different class than many of those - simpler, less power, but still inspiring for musical ideas.
I've the sp404mk2 and yes it's great, it's now packed with features thanks to 4.04 update. But I also have the original MPC LIVE, also packed with features, and portability. I use the mpc live much more to be honest, I just find it easier to chop and deal with samples. I'd definitely be using the sp404 software to load up the samples, where you can set all specifications. 404 is curious, it's heritage of a sampling line, yet they've pushed it so far it's into mpc like abilities with added features. Starting to think the 404mk2 can't even really be considered to much like it's predecessors now.
I recently got an akai one+ . And it’s sample heaven. Although yeah the drumming is great on there . I still myself drumming on my ep and MIDI it to the akai. And it’s my best workflow atleast that’s what works for me. But I find myself using my sp404 less and less. The new update is badass tho.
With 4.04 update... Sorry but SP crushes the EP. Also it reads One full TB of SD Card now. And the sound generator in 4.04 update makes a sick sine wave bass.
this is an excellent video, and just so happens to be comparing the exact two grooveboxes im currently stuck between. I'll probably go with the sp404mk2, ty for the brilliant explanation! naturally im gonna get the ep ko2 in the coming months too, because I hate money and i love stupid bullshit with buttons
As someone who get a KO2 as their first piece of hardware, then realized, oops, the single FX situation and no send-to-self is very limiting for what I want to do (heavily sample based), BUT loving the portability and “creativity focus” of the KO2… what’s the one piece of hardware you’d suggest pairing with a KO2 to help with those deficiencies? Maybe the answer is just the SP404 … but maybe there is something cheaper? I’m already happy with many of the KO2s features and actually like many of its constraints…
I’m trying the Roland MC-101 more recently and it’s an incredibly powerful instrument in a portable package… I am not near it at the moment so do t remember if it sends I put audio through the effects but I think it has that option - check me on that
What about SP-404 update 4.04? Didn't that recent update add scenes to the SP-404MK2? Also, what about a comparison of the Circuit Rhythm sampler to the EP-133?
Not that I’ve Scene ;) - but I’ll look closer - the place where scenes DO make sense on SP-404 is with effects settings on patterns… hmmm … looking now!
Here’s the official list of SP-404 v4.04 updates from Roland. I don’t see Scenes, but perhaps we can think of pattern Chain resampling as a sort of scene capture… www.roland.com/global/support/by_product/sp-404mk2/updates_drivers/bead022d-5349-4aab-9608-90ec718d47b0/
The 404 is basically 5X the device for $200 more. If you're making a basic sample-based beat, they both can do that, but the 404 is a whole sound design and live performance platform that does stuff the KO could never do. Also, neither of these are 'grooveboxes'....they're tabletop phrase samplers. The groovebox concept has always been a synth engine (usually based on the company's current workstation engine) with 'dance' oriented presets, combined with a sequencer and knobby control surface. Sampling is usually a side-feature or not there at all.
💯 on the disproportionate differences of features vs money… I always think of a “groovebox” as an all in one device - make/tweak sounds on board and create patterns … so sequencing with onboard sounds… regardless of whether the sounds are synth-engine generated or sampled… and some do both. Wikipedia lets me call it a Groovebox regardless of sound source 😆
@@rochefsky Roland invented term 'groovebox' in the 90's. They may even have it trademarked as I don't think I've seen a non-Roland product have 'groovebox' listed on the front panel. There's a reason the 404 is Roland SP not a Roland MC-groovebox...to them it's a different product category. But hey...you can call them whatever you want: Drum thingy...fart box...lol. Maybe it's just one of those ubiquitous product names that eventually has a generic meaning like Kleenex (a face tissue), Xerox (a photocopy), Hoover (to vacuum), or Google (to search online).
@@TYBO-xl1xz It’s just an internal oscillator (sound generator) not a full synth really. You can sample it or chain FX on top but it’s not like having a full synth voice with an envelope, modulation, VCA, etc. much less presets. Still very cool to have for building your own samples and experimenting though.
404’s went down in price across the board, especially used units in big cities. Now that the new update is out, I wonder if I’ll start seeing more for $400 again? Everything in my town is sub $400 currently.
@@rochefsky Id be be less interested if they added resampling and some form of song mode to the ep133 but the new update for the 404 looks incredible, I think I will keep my eye on the used market...
True! And quirky-innovative way that tracks are handled… I’m not a fan of the button layout with the same design between the step pads and the sample pads on the right side - but just something to get used to
Dude I need this video right now. I use koala a lot and have recently gotten my hands on the ep133… still learning it but I am highly intrigued with the sp404 mk 2. Gonna enjoy this video with my breakfast this morning. Thanks for making it!
Happy it’s timely for you! I’ve had the SP-404 for a while but not using enough recently until the 4.04 update - which, of course, specifically integrates with Koala now! Enjoy breakfast! 🍳 😆
Very nice explanation. I believe it’s all in the hands of the user. I absolutely love the looks of the KO2, and find the design of the Sp404 kind of ugly, but I bought it anyway and love it. It is also very portable.
Much like life. The ugly ones work harder and are very flexible. The pretty ones don't try as hard and have performance issues. 😉 The ugly ones get better over time because they want to be "keepers" and the work hard at upgrading. The pretty ones are perfectly happy with their limitations and expect you to change to accommodate them. Functional productive and value with one. Easy on the eyes and lightweight with the other. Just droppin' some life lessons along with the great video! LOL
In France the KO2 is €350 compared to €450 for the SP404mk2. Only €100 difference... choose the SP. The KO2's only advantage might have been its weight and size, but because of its poor build quality, it won't stay in one piece in your backpack for long.
For someone just getting into this stuff, little music experience besides making trap beats on Fl for a very short amount of time, what’s the better option out of the two for a beginner? If either?
If you’re committed to grow your system/Studio, I the SP404 has huge long term value and is incredibly powerful…. And if you elegant something to just inspire beat ideas on the go, the EP133 is super useful and fun!
I’d vote upgrade your FL version, then consider something like the rc-20 vst to get the lofi vibes and skip both machines if you want to stay in trap. The 404 is probably better at getting the overall sound and retrigs between it and the KO, but programming them is a bit fiddly. Full disclosure though, I like boom bap and trip hop and end up using the 404 more than the other 2.
@@mattc556 I didn’t say in my original comment but I stopped altogether because I didn’t like staring at a screen. And I’m interested in groove boxes for this reason, and I don’t necessarily need to keep making trap but more or less casually making anything I like. Sorry if I’m all over the place lol
@@greghoskins9237 This makes perfect sense to me :) I’m pretty much always trying to get to a piece of HW that’s inspiring while still being able to get what’s in my head out. A straight DAW is, on paper, the right look for me but I just cant get enough vibes from a mouse. In all honesty, I always return to the Live 2 as the most able to meet this on its own. It does _everything_ and it’s battery powered. Given the clarification - If i was moving off of FL and onto only one of these 2 boxes, 404 hands down. I would instead move to a Live 2, and add one of these. Then its more which one calls to you, if that makes sense. I can’t help but fanboy TE, so I think I’d do LIVE 2 + KO. Or at least today thats my answer.
@@user-mb8rf7qk5q yes, I can see that’s a great combo, too. Also for the MIDI capabilities of the KO 👍🏻 for which I’m experimenting with the SP and Polyend Play OG combo.
@@TwinCitiesOxygen The studio-focused sampler that does key groups, multilayers, velocity switching, etc. is pretty rare these days. Most folks just use software for that kind of stuff. I'd look at the current MPC range or perhaps the sampling functions in high-end workstation keyboards.
Not even close. I don't like my ep 133 at all. The only thing I enjoy about it is the way the keys feel. Probably because I made beats on FL studio using my laptop keyboard for years. But yeah biggest regret in my studio. 😅 From the moment it came out of the box I was unimpressed. Felt cheap, the knobs barely fit. The fader came with a protective plastic guard that had to be heated to finally remove. The stock knob didn't fit, the one i bought on etsy didn't fit. Only a lego technic peice fit. It's going to my baby girl for a toy to play with. I love the SP 404 mk2 so much I stopped using my MPC and bought some older SP models.
SP 404 has had over a decade of reiteration. I think Teenage Engineering is more of a lifestyle company rather than pro audio. The only pluses for the KO are the aesthetics and smaller size.
Fair points - I think the nuance positive characteristic of the KO II is the simplicity with which someone can make quick, and still inspiring, beats/music... but comparing to the SP404, I put two different weight classes in the same ring...
KO2 also cannot sample when the ko2 is playing, so trying to play a guitar riff in time or sing along to the backing is impossible.. you have to do it with nothing playing..in stop mode.
@@rochefsky i've been waiting for that FIRMWARE update that TE talk about coming and turning the second CPU on...once i see what new features they add i'll either jump aboard or not.
@@Halfbit_0 Ah! I've never paid enough attention to the difference since I've never been involved in any projects where Gigabits were important (and have been in tech professionally for decades LOL)... but thank you for pointing that out - and to @johnsobota6234 too - as I didn't even realize they were correcting me in their comment!
If you wanna compare Apples with Oranges, it is. For me, no trendy TE stuff. This 133 is way underpriced for TE standards. They should up the price to at least 750 euro. I mean 64 Mb against 16 Gb, that must 4 times as much, doesn't it 😂.
I’m with you on price (since I already have mine 😝) and I still have an appreciation for the EP-133 as somehow it pushes my creativity with the constraints - but that 64Mb limit does get in the way more than I hoped
Well, the SP404 mk2 now crashes and reboots when you load a sample from SD card. How's that for a cool limitation. I mean, resampling is the bread and butter since the 202 came out in the 90th. With the 4.04 update, they managed to destroy it. That alone should be enough to up the price of the 133 to at least 750 dollars IMHO 😂.
@@leftmono1016 well, not the po's but like the channel mixer etc. Also Po's has gone up in price because i bought them for like 79 and now they like 99 euro and to be honest i think its a toy so thats why i sold them.
Interesting you say that, Chameleon. I have the PO-33 and liked it for a while, but the dinky buttons and knobs annoyed me. I've been looking for a similar style unit but big enough for adult hands. Maybe the 404 is it.
A groove box is a single Instrument, which is capable of running multiple melodic tracks and drums, so you could perform a whole track on it. So polyphonic samplers are grooveboxes, monophonic samplers arent.
Hence the thumbnail “fair to compare” Absolutely different machines, I mean Roland has a decade plus in the sp series and the mkii seems to be rolands opus considering all of its new capabilities.
Really meant to help people decide given how close they are really in price… I’ve had a few friends ask “which one would you recommend” and I always say “it depends” so…. this video… :)
It's a totally fair comparison in the sense that almost every beginner looking for a sampler/groove box is looking at both of these as tentative choices.
The Roland SP-404 mk2 is a keeper. and becomes damn near a new machine with each number update.
Agreed! This latest update is incredible
That's all i needed to hear thank you imbuying one today!!
I had to return two ko2s but did have fun with them before they broke. The sp404 is a beast. The new update just changed the game for how I make music.
I haven’t had any physical breaks with mine - but hear you on the 404/4.04 update… wow!🤩
@rochefsky the second one I got, just stopped making sound, and the first had connectivity issues with my computer or fl studio. It was cool. Drag and drop feature with the sp404 is a life savor
Yes the SP404 is a machine that can do whatever you need it to do! Some machines are one dimensional but the SP can be your primary sampler, or primary effects…your live performance box, or you can use it how I do as a sound module. I store all my drums and instruments sounds on an SD card and use it like that! In the future I’ll dabble more into the features included in the new update!!
I had no problems with my KO 2. The latest 404 update was just what I needed.
Damn, you really did an amazing job at making this comparison. I don't think it could be clearer than this.
Thank you for the feedback!
Yeah they are both samplers, but I feel like both fill a different niche. 404 is for people who love to work with samples, where the 133 is for people who hate working with samples. Sampling to me is tedious, so I prefer the simplicity of the 133 work flow.
That’s a really interesting way to describe it - thanks! “A sampler for people who hate working with samples”! 😊
How so? I love working with samples. The Chopping/Trimming on the K.O. II is pretty bad. You’re better off chopping on your computer and then import.
@@iShredStreetsyou are proving the point
@@iShredStreets The K.O. II is alright, compared to a Digitakt regarding sampling, however there's no side chain in the KO, so I bounce that to the DAW (I produce mainly house and lofi). Just trim while holding shift and have a decent ear for manual chopping.
@@beatsandstuff I'm thinking of selling the K.O. II. I've started using Renoise and I'm getting much more done than with the K.O. II. Meanwhile the K.O. II is collecting dust. I like the clicky buttons on it though.
The 404 is for my craziest / experimental benders. The 133 is next to my laptop in the office for when I need a distraction 😆
💯✅🤩
Do people think it's a calculator???? LOL
@@damelos4039 sometimes I like to pretend it’s a calculator and punch in the numbers I’m working on as if it were a calculator. Good way to goof off and get some random inspiration lol
I should clarify that I work from home, so nobody sees/hears what I do when I play around with it. But yes, I would totally try sneaking this into the office. I guarantee nobody would know what it was 😂
the calculator look-alike memes are real ;)
They work amazingly side by side. I run my 133 into my SP. everything into Ableton. Voila.
Beautiful!! It’s wonderful to have both 😊
Nice. I may need to do something like that soon.
Wow! It's like being in class and you're the professor. I don't have to take notes because I can rewind and download but what a GREAT video! Thanks. Going to check out the others you mentioned too.
Thank you for the kind words!! glad it's helpful!
Subbed. Can’t believe I hadn’t found your channel until now. The visuals/graphic nature of your comparison is something other TH-camrs could really learn from; definitely resonates with me.
Such a well-composed and presented video, exactly the type of info I've struggled to find elsewhere. Subbed!
Thank you!😊
You got a new sub bro. I appreciate the quality of your work
Thank you! 🙏
Best comparison on these two samplers that I've seen. Amazing work!
Wow thank you! (It was a lot of work so nice to hear!)
Here, in Spain SP 404 439€. vs K. O. II 379€. Roland for me.
WOW that’s a no-brainer unless you simply can’t fit the 404 in your bag! 👍
Prices seem to fluctuate almost on a per day basis. Got my SP a couple of weeks ago 449 (EUR, incl. 19% tax) where the KO would have cost me 379, too. But the latter is now 349 where the Roland is 479, I guess due to higher demand and availability. At first the KO looked so fast and more creative, but after all I’m very pleased with my choice for the seemingly complicated SP… but muscle-memorizing and navigating the shortcuts walhalla became a breeze after two to three weeks of playing with the ‘instrument’. And, videos like these were extremely helpful in the process. So thanks, as you compare both objectively and very clear 👌🏻
I have both and the 404 clears
Awesome - I wonder how many ppl have both… lots maybe !
I have both I like the simplicity and how fast the ep 133 is to make a beat, on the other hand I prefer the sp404 is way more complex and I can make full tracks with it I just wish it was a tad smaller
I have both too
Thanks for this. Been going back and forth on these, but I'm sold on the 404 now. Especially to plug my guitar into.
Yes on guitar collaboration!!
Watching this video and waiting for my SP :)❤
Impossible to be disappointed 😆
I regret I ever purchased the EP 133. It's more like a novelty item now...a cute little studio decoration. The SP-404 crushes in all areas: FX, portability, sequencing, memory expansion, various recording modes, etc. I'd been looking for a powerful looper and discovered that this feature was implemented into the 404 in the last firmware update. The SP is miles ahead - even with the quirky workflow.
Love both but yes, SP is much (much!) more powerful… and I expect we’ll see other EP devices in the series
We hope to see a full tutorial about the SP-404 MKII in ur amazing channel
That’s a big one… I would love to find the time for that, but given my new startup, it may be a while ;) - check out @JAdeWii_ channel - she’s a guru with SP404
Great video, I've watched some comparisons and this really covered almost every base that goes into the decision.
Thanks for the feedback!
Great review. Thanks!
@@samhughesprogressive very welcome!!
I appreciate your hard work in presenting this information!
Thanks! I appreciate your feedback
you sir broke this down like an engineer
Nice compliment! Thanks 🙏
Thank you very much. This is very very useful for me who need to know how differ of both devices in order to consider which one to buy. Thank you.😃
You’re welcome! 😁
Very nice comparison. Helpful. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
After purchasing SP404mk2, I realized that MPC live2 was a better device than I thought. However, SP404 ii was much lighter than expected. Including the maschine drum, I already have three drum machines, but I was curious about the KO2 again.
With all the devices I’ve used, I’ve still not tried any NI/masculine instruments and still haven’t gotten my hands on an MPC! (But I did have the Akai Force for a while). KO2 is definitely in a different class than many of those - simpler, less power, but still inspiring for musical ideas.
I've the sp404mk2 and yes it's great, it's now packed with features thanks to 4.04 update. But I also have the original MPC LIVE, also packed with features, and portability. I use the mpc live much more to be honest, I just find it easier to chop and deal with samples. I'd definitely be using the sp404 software to load up the samples, where you can set all specifications. 404 is curious, it's heritage of a sampling line, yet they've pushed it so far it's into mpc like abilities with added features.
Starting to think the 404mk2 can't even really be considered to much like it's predecessors now.
@@rochefsky Reading the comments makes me even more curious! I'm planning to run to the store tomorrow.
@@Mikey_J_197 I haven't had the time to do the 4.04 update yet. I definitely need to check it out. Thanks for the information!
@@HerzAnalog I did the 404 MK2 update last night.
I recently got an akai one+ . And it’s sample heaven. Although yeah the drumming is great on there . I still myself drumming on my ep and MIDI it to the akai. And it’s my best workflow atleast that’s what works for me. But I find myself using my sp404 less and less. The new update is badass tho.
Interesting! Thanks!
With 4.04 update... Sorry but SP crushes the EP. Also it reads One full TB of SD Card now. And the sound generator in 4.04 update makes a sick sine wave bass.
Totally with you… it was more of a clear justification for ONLY 200 more all the things you get. I have to play with the sound gen feature more !
this is an excellent video, and just so happens to be comparing the exact two grooveboxes im currently stuck between. I'll probably go with the sp404mk2, ty for the brilliant explanation! naturally im gonna get the ep ko2 in the coming months too, because I hate money and i love stupid bullshit with buttons
Great to hear! And same on the money-to-buttons happiness formula @cupofdirtfordinner !
As someone who get a KO2 as their first piece of hardware, then realized, oops, the single FX situation and no send-to-self is very limiting for what I want to do (heavily sample based), BUT loving the portability and “creativity focus” of the KO2… what’s the one piece of hardware you’d suggest pairing with a KO2 to help with those deficiencies? Maybe the answer is just the SP404 … but maybe there is something cheaper? I’m already happy with many of the KO2s features and actually like many of its constraints…
I’m trying the Roland MC-101 more recently and it’s an incredibly powerful instrument in a portable package… I am not near it at the moment so do t remember if it sends I put audio through the effects but I think it has that option - check me on that
My EP is still in its box!.. just haven’t had time to use it.. it was a bit of an impulse buy.. and I have the Sp404 mk2 😬
One recommendation: “Pair” instead of compare :) - sampling beats from the 133 to the 404 is pretty hot!
What about SP-404 update 4.04? Didn't that recent update add scenes to the SP-404MK2? Also, what about a comparison of the Circuit Rhythm sampler to the EP-133?
Not that I’ve Scene ;) - but I’ll look closer - the place where scenes DO make sense on SP-404 is with effects settings on patterns… hmmm … looking now!
Here’s the official list of SP-404 v4.04 updates from Roland. I don’t see Scenes, but perhaps we can think of pattern Chain resampling as a sort of scene capture…
www.roland.com/global/support/by_product/sp-404mk2/updates_drivers/bead022d-5349-4aab-9608-90ec718d47b0/
Which video is the best to learn SP-404 mk2 from zero? I already own it but the beginnings are not easy.
A guy on TH-cam named nonjuror has great videos
I think the Roland series is really strong… (RolandChannel) and NervousCook$ has a huge playlist of very short videos on specific topics on the MkII
Print out the manual and experiment take it slow cause there is so much to learn 😅
The 404 is basically 5X the device for $200 more. If you're making a basic sample-based beat, they both can do that, but the 404 is a whole sound design and live performance platform that does stuff the KO could never do.
Also, neither of these are 'grooveboxes'....they're tabletop phrase samplers. The groovebox concept has always been a synth engine (usually based on the company's current workstation engine) with 'dance' oriented presets, combined with a sequencer and knobby control surface. Sampling is usually a side-feature or not there at all.
💯 on the disproportionate differences of features vs money…
I always think of a “groovebox” as an all in one device - make/tweak sounds on board and create patterns … so sequencing with onboard sounds… regardless of whether the sounds are synth-engine generated or sampled… and some do both. Wikipedia lets me call it a Groovebox regardless of sound source 😆
They just added a synth engine to the 404
@@rochefsky Roland invented term 'groovebox' in the 90's. They may even have it trademarked as I don't think I've seen a non-Roland product have 'groovebox' listed on the front panel. There's a reason the 404 is Roland SP not a Roland MC-groovebox...to them it's a different product category.
But hey...you can call them whatever you want: Drum thingy...fart box...lol. Maybe it's just one of those ubiquitous product names that eventually has a generic meaning like Kleenex (a face tissue), Xerox (a photocopy), Hoover (to vacuum), or Google (to search online).
@@TYBO-xl1xz It’s just an internal oscillator (sound generator) not a full synth really. You can sample it or chain FX on top but it’s not like having a full synth voice with an envelope, modulation, VCA, etc. much less presets. Still very cool to have for building your own samples and experimenting though.
ha - some of those deep bass samples - yes, fart box! LOL
404’s went down in price across the board, especially used units in big cities. Now that the new update is out, I wonder if I’ll start seeing more for $400 again? Everything in my town is sub $400 currently.
Used prices are attractive!
I got a KO2 recently and have been enjoying it but man I wish id looked for a 2nd hand 404 now...
I did get my 404 pre-owned… so worth it
@@rochefsky Id be be less interested if they added resampling and some form of song mode to the ep133 but the new update for the 404 looks incredible, I think I will keep my eye on the used market...
Sp404 mk2 "to this day!'" (Deontay wilder voice)
😆
I'm a sucker for the aesthetics of TE, but I think I need the more standard I/O options that the 404 offers. But hmmm... Idk, it's tempting haha!
Temptation is constant in this space!! 😊
@@rochefsky ya damn right! Just get both is what my heart says haha.
1:57 Yeah, SeqTrak! Different shape, but it's still a classic step sequencer, easy to learn if you know X0X!
True! And quirky-innovative way that tracks are handled… I’m not a fan of the button layout with the same design between the step pads and the sample pads on the right side - but just something to get used to
Dude I need this video right now. I use koala a lot and have recently gotten my hands on the ep133… still learning it but I am highly intrigued with the sp404 mk 2. Gonna enjoy this video with my breakfast this morning. Thanks for making it!
Happy it’s timely for you! I’ve had the SP-404 for a while but not using enough recently until the 4.04 update - which, of course, specifically integrates with Koala now! Enjoy breakfast! 🍳 😆
@@rochefsky 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾
Very nice explanation. I believe it’s all in the hands of the user. I absolutely love the looks of the KO2, and find the design of the Sp404 kind of ugly, but I bought it anyway and love it. It is also very portable.
Definitely loads of personal preference in device selection! I actually like the SP404 look particularly for the round screen frame … so unique :)
Much like life. The ugly ones work harder and are very flexible. The pretty ones don't try as hard and have performance issues. 😉 The ugly ones get better over time because they want to be "keepers" and the work hard at upgrading. The pretty ones are perfectly happy with their limitations and expect you to change to accommodate them. Functional productive and value with one. Easy on the eyes and lightweight with the other. Just droppin' some life lessons along with the great video! LOL
A 404 with a nice skin on it looks really slick IMHO.
@@rochefsky for sure!
@@damelos4039 😄
In France the KO2 is €350 compared to €450 for the SP404mk2. Only €100 difference... choose the SP.
The KO2's only advantage might have been its weight and size, but because of its poor build quality, it won't stay in one piece in your backpack for long.
I have a perfect case for my KO II for that reason but… wow on that even smaller price difference! The SP404 is a true value!!!
For someone just getting into this stuff, little music experience besides making trap beats on Fl for a very short amount of time, what’s the better option out of the two for a beginner? If either?
If you’re committed to grow your system/Studio, I the SP404 has huge long term value and is incredibly powerful…. And if you elegant something to just inspire beat ideas on the go, the EP133 is super useful and fun!
404. It’ll grow with you.
I’d vote upgrade your FL version, then consider something like the rc-20 vst to get the lofi vibes and skip both machines if you want to stay in trap.
The 404 is probably better at getting the overall sound and retrigs between it and the KO, but programming them is a bit fiddly.
Full disclosure though, I like boom bap and trip hop and end up using the 404 more than the other 2.
@@mattc556 I didn’t say in my original comment but I stopped altogether because I didn’t like staring at a screen. And I’m interested in groove boxes for this reason, and I don’t necessarily need to keep making trap but more or less casually making anything I like. Sorry if I’m all over the place lol
@@greghoskins9237 This makes perfect sense to me :) I’m pretty much always trying to get to a piece of HW that’s inspiring while still being able to get what’s in my head out. A straight DAW is, on paper, the right look for me but I just cant get enough vibes from a mouse. In all honesty, I always return to the Live 2 as the most able to meet this on its own. It does _everything_ and it’s battery powered.
Given the clarification - If i was moving off of FL and onto only one of these 2 boxes, 404 hands down. I would instead move to a Live 2, and add one of these. Then its more which one calls to you, if that makes sense. I can’t help but fanboy TE, so I think I’d do LIVE 2 + KO. Or at least today thats my answer.
THX ! 😎👌
👍👍
The very limited polyphony and no resampling made me hold back on the KO II and go with the very powerful and capable SP.
Great points. The limited polyphony drove me crazy but I decided to use the 133 as a melody maker and route it to my SP. Dream combo.
Fun solution for sure!👍
Sensible reasons definitely 💯
@@user-mb8rf7qk5q yes, I can see that’s a great combo, too. Also for the MIDI capabilities of the KO 👍🏻 for which I’m experimenting with the SP and Polyend Play OG combo.
this is very helpful
Thanks!
what a great video!
Thank you!
The basic pads are similar, most everything else? DIFFERENT!
True again :)
Stem separation, and a 16 track sequencer is all that’s missing from the Sp404
Those would rock! V4.04.25 maybe 😊
They have it with the koala integration
first i wanna an EP133 the design etc its awsome, but the limitations no way for me. So i have now an 404MKII
Yes same!
Why does sp404mkii not have key groups? I’d buy it in an instant if it did.
Are Key Groups like custom scales? Or something else? Googling as we speak….
Because it's a phrase sampler designed for live performance not a studio rack sampler for creating instrument patches.
@@coolo73 fair enough. Besides Enoch any reccomendations for a hardware sampler that can do this?
@@TwinCitiesOxygen The studio-focused sampler that does key groups, multilayers, velocity switching, etc. is pretty rare these days. Most folks just use software for that kind of stuff. I'd look at the current MPC range or perhaps the sampling functions in high-end workstation keyboards.
@@TwinCitiesOxygen Digitakt?
Get 2 ep 133 sync them now you got 24 voice 8 tracks or groups 132mb sample time thats still more than the first four .MPC ever made
A few people suggesting that! Key still is to now compare the $600 spend to other options
Not even close. I don't like my ep 133 at all. The only thing I enjoy about it is the way the keys feel. Probably because I made beats on FL studio using my laptop keyboard for years. But yeah biggest regret in my studio. 😅
From the moment it came out of the box I was unimpressed. Felt cheap, the knobs barely fit. The fader came with a protective plastic guard that had to be heated to finally remove. The stock knob didn't fit, the one i bought on etsy didn't fit. Only a lego technic peice fit. It's going to my baby girl for a toy to play with.
I love the SP 404 mk2 so much I stopped using my MPC and bought some older SP models.
Oh that stinks… I luckily didn’t have the problems with the fader/knobs but I still replaced all with cool technic parts :)
This is like comparing a slingshot to a 50 caliber machine gun. One is a toy the other the answer.
yet… some people buy the toy expecting it to be the answer, and others buy the answer and only use it like a toy… 😅
SP 404 has had over a decade of reiteration. I think Teenage Engineering is more of a lifestyle company rather than pro audio. The only pluses for the KO are the aesthetics and smaller size.
Fair points - I think the nuance positive characteristic of the KO II is the simplicity with which someone can make quick, and still inspiring, beats/music... but comparing to the SP404, I put two different weight classes in the same ring...
KO2 also cannot sample when the ko2 is playing, so trying to play a guitar riff in time or sing along to the backing is impossible.. you have to do it with nothing playing..in stop mode.
Great point. Resampling generally would be a great feature to have
@@rochefsky i've been waiting for that FIRMWARE update that TE talk about coming and turning the second CPU on...once i see what new features they add i'll either jump aboard or not.
i went with the 404 because it has legit i/0s and more than 64mb memory lol
Good reasons in my book!
Why not own both :D
I do. Best combo. Route 133 into the SP and you’re good.
🤑😆
Love that … me too 😊
"Row'land
Long Island accent I guess….
Song mode 🤷🏾♂️
I feel ya - and project level archive/reload - oh, and resampling - oh and project level scale please…. 😆
@@rochefsky simple things. We are music heads! We wanna create and record and hear back what we created!!
Gb = Giga bits
Not sure what you mean… but I’ve never heard ppl refer to Gb as “gigabits” …. 😆
@@rochefsky The proper abbreviation for gigabyte is GB with a capital B. Gb is the abbreviation for gigabit.
@@Halfbit_0 Ah! I've never paid enough attention to the difference since I've never been involved in any projects where Gigabits were important (and have been in tech professionally for decades LOL)... but thank you for pointing that out - and to @johnsobota6234 too - as I didn't even realize they were correcting me in their comment!
yes - i definitely meant GigaBYTES - my bad
If you wanna compare Apples with Oranges, it is. For me, no trendy TE stuff. This 133 is way underpriced for TE standards. They should up the price to at least 750 euro. I mean 64 Mb against 16 Gb, that must 4 times as much, doesn't it 😂.
I’m with you on price (since I already have mine 😝) and I still have an appreciation for the EP-133 as somehow it pushes my creativity with the constraints - but that 64Mb limit does get in the way more than I hoped
Up the price for a Unreliable Piece of Gear? It aint Worth $300..
Well, the SP404 mk2 now crashes and reboots when you load a sample from SD card. How's that for a cool limitation. I mean, resampling is the bread and butter since the 202 came out in the 90th. With the 4.04 update, they managed to destroy it. That alone should be enough to up the price of the 133 to at least 750 dollars IMHO 😂.
@@artisans8521 bummer... Mine is working so far....
I sold all my PO's because im done with TE and their overpriced gear so now i bought a sp 404 mk2 and its like a po33 on steroids.
But… the desk!?….. 😆 I just try to pick their gear selectively
To be fair, PO’s are definitely not overpriced!
@@leftmono1016 well, not the po's but like the channel mixer etc. Also Po's has gone up in price because i bought them for like 79 and now they like 99 euro and to be honest i think its a toy so thats why i sold them.
@@TheChameleon2008 - if it makes music or beats it’s never just a toy - lesson learned from the TB303 😉
But I get where you’re coming from.
Interesting you say that, Chameleon. I have the PO-33 and liked it for a while, but the dinky buttons and knobs annoyed me. I've been looking for a similar style unit but big enough for adult hands. Maybe the 404 is it.
There both good samplers just shut up and take my money
😂👍🔥
When it comes to Sonic’s it doesn’t come close
❓
@@rochefsky read it again, clearly my brain was not working when I typed that
😅 it’s like comparing a ford tempo to a Porsche car. Makes no sense. What a waste of time dude.
Extreme comparison… but I’ll compare the pulsar-23 to the Stylophone next and, then, yes 😝
TE is a broken brand. There are no talents left there. They sure know how to market stuff down, tho.
SP is a long way ahead. No debate.
Respect the opinion - (and agree on SP!) but I’m still a TE fan - and I just choose the products selectively… I skipped the tape dispenser :)
Please stop saying groove box. Samplers aren't groove boxes. They're sampler
A groove box is a single Instrument, which is capable of running multiple melodic tracks and drums, so you could perform a whole track on it.
So polyphonic samplers are grooveboxes, monophonic samplers arent.
GrooveBoxes are samplers with more capability to be standalone composition makers… I didn’t invent the term 😆 even if I don’t love it either
I agree with the original comment 👍
Not a fair compare
Hence the thumbnail “fair to compare” Absolutely different machines, I mean Roland has a decade plus in the sp series and the mkii seems to be rolands opus considering all of its new capabilities.
Really meant to help people decide given how close they are really in price… I’ve had a few friends ask “which one would you recommend” and I always say “it depends” so…. this video… :)
you got it :)
It's a totally fair comparison in the sense that almost every beginner looking for a sampler/groove box is looking at both of these as tentative choices.
@@Ferrous_Buellerno 😢