Taking a 3800 Engine To The Next Level-Supercharged Top Swap
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video i go over the parts needed to take your stock non supercharged 3800 to the next level with all the correct supercharger parts to make it easy to be able to do your self after finding the parts from your local junkyard ,salvage yard or facebook marketplace, ebay or craigslist. all these parts will make your 3800 more powerful and fun to drive on a regular basis. so your car can then makes supercharger noises every time you floor it like all the high horsepower cars like hellcats, red eyes, cobras, gt500 and other v8 cars.
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One thing that wasn't talked about in this video but is important. If your top swap a 3800 non supercharged set it up to run on e85 if its available near you so you get the full potential of the swap versus running on pump gas 91 or 93 gas near you.
It will run with E-85 without any extra modification on the injectors size, fuel pump, alcohol content sensor or any other compartments ?
@@jeanpierreremond2565 For 3800s to run on e85 properly it needs two things #1 is bigger injectors and #2 is a tune. because e85 has a higher ethanol percent the tune adjust things like timing, fuel tables and air fuel plus e85 used 20 percent more fuel than pump gas 93 or lower octane levels. then also depending on your horsepower level a fuel pump upgrade might be needed if your fuel system becomes maxed out based on your fuel duty cycle percent because of the extra fuel need to handle the e85 so you don't have lean spikes at higher rpms or at full throttle.
I just ran into this excellent swap video I just subscribed to your channel 😊
@@gaspoweredgarageHow would she do on 87 with that tune?? Can u do a video about this so we can understand?
@bobfitz7886 Any boosted applications that's either turbo or supercharger can run on 87 as a temporary fuel but will be sluggish and have high knock (knock sensor reducing timing as rpm is increased) till a higher octane like 91 or e85 is put into the gas tank. Later this year once my top swap parts come back from the machine shop. there will be a video going over tuning with hptuners while showing data to why octane is important and anything else.
Cougar in the backround. Love the 80s Fords.
Its a 1984 cougar. That will eventually be a project for the channel.I also love 80s fords but out of the bunch ford made my favorites are the foxbodys car like cougar, thunderbird, mark 7, Fairmont/ durango.
Even though this video is focused for top swapping a non supercharged 3800 to supercharged. There are some worthy upgrades talked about that would also help if you have a series 2 supercharged 3800 wanting more power also.
I’m looking for everything I need to do the transformation, thank you for the video
Your welcome
also here is the list to use as a reference.
Heads from SC motor (Either Series 2 or 3)
Head Bolts, can be OEM replacements or Studs, up to you (Stock are Torque to Yield(one time use)
Head Gaskets
Supercharged valve covers & gaskets
Harmonic Balancer From the SC motor / aftermarket SFI balancer
Tensioner for SC belt
Idlers for Sc belt
Supercharged Coil bracket (some 97 and 98 cars may not need a different bracket)
Lower Intake Manifold from the SC motor( must match with the supercharger you choose) (The bolts are the same, so you can use your old LIM bolts if needed)
Lower intake Manifold Gaskets(the Aluminum ones are the Best)
Fuel Rail(you need the one that matches your fuel system, 97-03 gets the standard rail, while 04+ needs the return-less)
Supercharged injectors or better flowing units
Supercharger Gasket(If you use a Gen III M90 you need O-rings as well)
Gen5 supercharger (2004-08 grand prix) or Gen 3 supercharger (97-03 supercharged 3800's)
Supercharger Belt
Throttle Body from SC motor or Northstar with Mass air also
Throttle adapter for the throttle body you went with.
Supercharged PCM or Stock PCM that's been tuned for top swap
I personally would recommend supercharging an originally stock 3800. The L36 and L26 have a different compression ratio because they aren’t supercharged from factory. That being said the L67 and L32 came with stronger internals such as rods and pistons because they are supercharged engines from factory. If you want to build a strong 3800, personally I wouldn’t choose an originally N/A engine.
yes the 3800 supercharged motors do have different rods & pistons due to lower compression. but the n/a 3800 are more plentiful and cheaper to buy at junkyards/salvage yards. majority of the high horsepower 3800 all use the n/a 3800 like terrell smith (hellboi), i'm even using a n/a 3800 with my top swap parts. with the higher compression you gain 30 to 60 horsepower when adding boost over the l67/l32.
So if i would want to supercharger just buy the whole motor & upgrade it wit a 4TE80 ?
Yes thats the easiest option if you don't want to do all the work relating to top swapping a n/a 3800. If you buy a whole engine i recommend the 2004-08 3800 supercharged since they came with the gen 5 supercharger. Plus 2004-08 engines might have less miles the 97-03 engines if your buying from like a junkyard or salvage yard
So higher compression is being recommended over factory stronger rods and pistons of supercharged variant if wanting to build a strong 3800 ! Am I missing something with this comment being advised recommendation 😂, amazing how few individuals or even group comes up with cost free idea that's better than the multi billion dollar automobile manufacturer design with cost involved having engineers creat,test and develope it for forced induction stress of supercharged induction !! Smh there are very few engines that are available in 2 forms n/a and forced inducted and have identical bottom end strengths, almost always N/a will have a higher compression but weaker internals compared to the turbo/sc variant, however it's completely possible to add turbo/sc to the n/a version and may make more power at a less boost level but that's also at a much less Hp number also before reaching a danger zone of throwing rod or piston failure, but anyone with a decent amount of performance knowledge already knows this and would never advise compression over rigidity and strength when involves any kind of power adder is being used especially if high Hp is wanted reliably.
This was incredibly helpful and thorough thank you very much
Your welcome glad the information is helpful.
Very grateful, I needed this 🙏
Your welcome. Glad the content was helpful. If you decide to go a different route instead of supercharged. I have a video on whats needed to turbocharge a 3800 also. Heres the link -th-cam.com/video/jy-icq7QsZg/w-d-xo.html
Cheers Bro. Super Helpful. Especially about needing to change heads.
Appreciate it, glad the video was helpful.
Good video. Good info. This is very helpful for me. I have a L67 3800 supercharged and I need all the information I can find on the 3800.
Do you have more videos on this engine.
Yes I have a playlist of 3800/ls4 content. Heres the link - 3800/LS4 Content: th-cam.com/play/PLtEwSkoASm-RoLTE0WvE6YFU5wegADtYf.html
Informative video…thank you.
@@bluwng you welcome, glad you found the video helpful. Heres a link to more informative video that relates to 3800/ls4 cars to help further your project- 3800/LS4 Content: th-cam.com/play/PLtEwSkoASm-RoLTE0WvE6YFU5wegADtYf.html
Hey bro bro. I appreciate you. 3800 my engine and i like how you explained the fuel injector going into intake manifold compared to on the head.
Those are the key points, yah the part change. BUT WHY.
God bless stay vigilant
Thanks. The reason gm used the head location for injectors for the supercharged 3800 was to give more room for the supercharger and to keep the fuel temps lower. Thats why the n/a 3800s had the injectors in the intake manifold compared to supercharged 3800s in the heads.
Awesome thanks for the reply
Your welcome
Great info man, Thanks 👍
Your welcome
Im looking into making my brother's 1990 olds delta 88 2 door coupe a supercharged 3.8
That sounds fun. The two ways i would go about it is look for a donor series 1 3800 supercharged to get all the parts needed or upgrade to series 2 3800 complete engine and trans.
Just found a 1992 3.8 supercharged Boniville running and driving for sale. That should be good yes?
Yes
It has the VATS anti theft system though
From some research you can do it one of two ways to remove or bypass the vat system. First way is you need a wave generator bypass box to plug into the vat connector which will bypass only the security portion not the fuel or starter part so engine will run fine.Second is install a resister to the correct wires which will bypass all vats and could effect the starter and fuel part to not work correctly or it works the same as the bypass box.
I am so grateful that you made this video, it helps a lot lmao! could you give me a link to where I can buy the extra belt tensioners?
@@connrr9297 your talking about the supercharger belt tensioner and you can get it at your local parts stores if you want new or junkyard/ salvage yard if your on a budget and ok with a used one. Use car-part.com website to see which local salvage yard has the part in stock based off your zip code.
@@gaspoweredgarage thanks! I am assuming the same for an ecu then as well? Is there any possibility of just flashing the supercharger stuff onto the original ecu?
You can flash the supercharged information to your original non supercharged 3800 ecu with hptuners. My preference is having a supercharged ecu and or a extra ecu so if issues or problems happen while top swapping i can use the non supercharged one for diagnosing to keep the downtime to a minimum.
Was thinking about the zzp turbo kit
Turbo kits are good for a 3800.you can bolt them on and make good power with not alot of work. The only downside is your transmission will be the next thing needing to upgrade once installing a turbo.
What do you suggest for a 01 Monte Carlo ss. Has 3800 series 2
If your wanting to make power first figure out which route turbo or supercharger. If you go turbo first upgrade to a 2004-08 series 3 upper intake manifold with a 1997-03 l67 3800 supercharged throttle body then add turbo kit. If you go supercharger then you can go two routes. Route one if your good at working on engines do the top swap supercharged setup like from the video. Route two if your not good at working on engines buy a complete 04-08 grand prix 3800 supercharged engine and swap into your monte carlo.
Everything is cool, but I would like to see how you talk about your strategy in more detail, what to pay attention to, how to determine when there will be an impulse, etc. So that it would be possible for beginners to understand when it is worth entering the market, and when it is better to wait out and under what situations.
Alot of the stuff you mentioned is planned to be talked about when i install the top swap setup into my grand prix in a future video.
I have an ecu from a supercharged car can i just plug it in and use it or will it need programmed to run?
It will need to programmed to run due to the security settings built into the ecu wont let it run.
@@gaspoweredgarage thank you
Your welcome
Does the original 4T-65E transmission will hold the extra power produced by the top swap or a HD transmision is absolutely necessary on this upgrade?
The 4t65e will handle the extra power. But eventually might think about upgrading some parts if your using a non hd trans like going with a hd diff/supercharged passenger cv axle.
Is the supercharged 3.8 a Pontiac motor or a Chevy motor?? Well that motor bolt up to a Chevy front wheel drive Chevy transmission??
@@vernonghostwalkervandegrif1903 the supercharged 3800s are a chevy engine. What model transmission are you using?
Quick question do u have to utilize both map sensors if u only have the one
For a top swap setup you can get by with one but for a factory 2004-08 supercharged 3800 you need both.
hey brother. i’m doing a top swap very soon on my ‘03 mcss and was wondering how i’d be able to flash the stock l67 tables on my stock pcm to get it up and running? i have hptuners, do i use the credits and put the tables on there? where do i get the stock tables? let me know, thanks!
you will need credits when you transfer the l67 (gen 3 supercharger) or l32 (gen 5 supercharger) stock tables into your pcm. you get the stock supercharged tables in hptuners.
What do you recommend me doing to my 2005 Buick Century 3100 to get more power….Thanks you and I subscribed to your channel 💪🏿
To make stuff easy I would recommend getting a donor car like a regal/grand prix and swap to a 3800 engine setup into your century. Then you go either supercharged or turbo to get the power your wanting with the 3800.
hey man i got a 03 monte carlo with the 3.8 series 2 can you give me the parts list of what it needs so i can get them all from the junk yard
Here is the list to use as a reference that is explained in the video.
Heads from SC motor (Either Series 2 or 3)
Head Bolts, can be OEM replacements or Studs, up to you (Stock are Torque to Yield(one time use)
Head Gaskets
Supercharged valve covers & gaskets
Harmonic Balancer From the SC motor / aftermarket SFI balancer
Tensioner for SC belt
Idlers for Sc belt
Supercharged Coil bracket (some 97 and 98 cars may not need a different bracket)
Lower Intake Manifold from the SC motor( must match with the supercharger you choose) (The bolts are the same, so you can use your old LIM bolts if needed)
Lower intake Manifold Gaskets(the Aluminum ones are the Best)
Fuel Rail(you need the one that matches your fuel system, 97-03 gets the standard rail, while 04+ needs the return-less)
Supercharged injectors or better flowing units
Supercharger Gasket(If you use a Gen III M90 you need O-rings as well)
Gen5 supercharger (2004-08 grand prix) or Gen 3 supercharger (97-03 supercharged 3800's)
Supercharger Belt
Throttle Body from SC motor or Northstar with Mass air also
Throttle adapter for the throttle body you went with.
Supercharged PCM or Stock PCM that's been tuned for top swap
@@gaspoweredgarage thank youuu
Your welcome
Would I be able to top swap my L26 2006 Pontiac Grand Prix base model 3.8 N/A
Yes and all the parts talked about in the video will work to top swap your n/a 3800. Since your car has a electronic throttle body use a 2004-08 supercharged throttle body when you do the swap.
Okay thanks
For a top swap on 07 G.P. (L-26) engine, can I reprogram the computer by myself using HP tuners and how easy or difficult will be for an average person to tune the car computer
@@jeanpierreremond2565 yes you can reprogram your computer yourself using hptuners software. If your computer savvy then it shouldn't be that hard for doing the basic things like transferring a l32 engine file onto your l-26 ecu or the simple questions that just require turning on or off in hptuners. Now the more advanced stuff like the fuel mapping/ timing or adjusting transmission shifting kind of things. I would either pay to have tuned by someone /company or do small adjustment at a time and hope your not in the market for a new transmission or engine due to making the wrong tuning adjustments.
@@gaspoweredgarage thanks you
Your welcome
Can I do that Top swap with my 02 Monte Carlo 3800 Series 3 ? if so what all parts do I need ??
yes you can top swap your monte carlo. Here is the list to use as a reference that is explained in the video.
Heads from SC motor (Either Series 2 or 3)
Head Bolts, can be OEM replacements or Studs, up to you (Stock are Torque to Yield(one time use)
Head Gaskets
Supercharged valve covers & gaskets
Harmonic Balancer From the SC motor / aftermarket SFI balancer
Tensioner for SC belt
Idlers for Sc belt
Supercharged Coil bracket (some 97 and 98 cars may not need a different bracket)
Lower Intake Manifold from the SC motor( must match with the supercharger you choose) (The bolts are the same, so you can use your old LIM bolts if needed)
Lower intake Manifold Gaskets(the Aluminum ones are the Best)
Fuel Rail(you need the one that matches your fuel system, 97-03 gets the standard rail, while 04+ needs the return-less)
Supercharged injectors or better flowing units
Supercharger Gasket(If you use a Gen III M90 you need O-rings as well)
Gen5 supercharger (2004-08 grand prix) or Gen 3 supercharger (97-03 supercharged 3800's)
Supercharger Belt
Throttle Body from SC motor or Northstar with Mass air also
Throttle adapter for the throttle body you went with.
Supercharged PCM or Stock PCM that's been tuned for top swap
I have a 92 Buick park ave sc, does anyone know if a series 2 sc engine would be swappable with my car? If so what all would I need? Thanks in advance .
@@Big_LosF all you need to make that swap happen is a series 2 engine and transmission and ecu / engine wiring harness. To get the best deal i would find a donor vehicle instead of buying the parts individually.
Will this work for 2002 with a 2004 engine and transmission and if I can’t wait for this upgrade
Yes
Excuse me sir, I believe this is the same engine I have in my 04 ss. I just bought it and it blew on me. Should I just pull and rebuild or buy a new one?
Depends on your budget and what failed in your current engine. If it had rod knock or did major damage its cheaper to buy a used low mileage engine or new replacement engine. If what blew was like head gaskets or something simple I would focus on rebuilding it and include some upgrades while your at it to enjoy some extra horsepower if your budget allows.
@@gaspoweredgarage there’s nothing leaking so there’s no block damage on the outside from what I can see. It had a knock that sounded like either rod or lifters, and it didn’t pop when it died. Just kinda turned off and I didn’t even realize it was off. Sadly, I spent my savings on the car as a Hail Mary and ultimately I think I’m screwed
I would see if the motor rotates with a socket on the crank bolt. If its doesn't spin then the motor is locked up. If it spins then I would pull the valve covers and inspect to see if you have any bent pushrods or metal shaving to tell if the lifters have failed. Then based on your finding it would tell if its repairable or you need a good used one from a junkyard or salvage yard near you.
@@gaspoweredgarage I think I just found one being sold 30 min away today. Around $400 plus the labor for swapping. Hopefully within a grand I think
Sounds like a good deal if the 400 dollar engine has low miles and in good condition.
I have an 06 supercharged. About to buy an 07 non sc. Do i need the wiring harness from my supercharged to top swap the base?
Look at the ecu of each cars and make sure they have the same style connectors and ecu looks similar. If that checks out you don't need to swap wiring harness. If they don't than you need the wiring harness. The reason to check that is from 2006 to 2008 gm changed alot more stuff than older 2004-2005 or 1997-2003.
Would this also work for a 1985 3.8 monte carlos?
All the stuff talked about in the video wont work for your original 3.8. Now your can use a 3800 from a 90s camaro or firebird and swap into your monte carlo and then beable to do the supercharger setup.
Hey man, what's the part at 7:22 called? That long-ish mounting piece? The pulley I can get via an 8 rib conversion kit I'm sure, but that particular mount I'm having a hard time finding. Just ordered the tensioner bracket for the sc. Is the dog one part of it? I don't see a dogbone one on mine I am attempting to do this to a 2000 lesabre.
the longish mounting piece is the lower idler mount and pulley. since the supercharged 3800s used two idler pulleys to put tension on the belt that runs the supercharger. the lower idler mount and pulley mount to the block with three bolts and the second idler pulley mount to the coilpack / dogbone bracket for cars with dog bone mounts. for your lesabre your going to not need the dogbone/coilpack bracket from a grand prix/monte carlo/regal/impala. but instead look for coilpack bracket off a bonneville supercharged or your existing n/a 3800 and then add the two idler pulleys and mounts and supercharger tensioner. if your ok with buying used parts use the website car-part.com to find the parts at junkyards/salvage yard that are local to you.
@@gaspoweredgarageCurrently looking into taking the "eTorque" mild hybrid system from a 2019 RAM truck and bolting it in place of the alternator on a LeSabre. Basically half of a top swap (need 8 rib pulley, idlers, high performance tensioner, and probably a totally custom mounting solution for the hybrid motor) but it's certainly going to be unique.
Dónde puedo conseguir las tapas de punterías pero cromadas
zzperformance.com
Can u help me figure what the line under the supercharger is called ?
Sure. If you take some pictures of the line and send them to me thru Instagram or Facebook at gas powered garage will tell you the name of the part your needing help with.
Can i get a list of all the things you've gathered?
Are you needing a list for top swapping or to add a gen 5 supercharger to a existing 3800 supercharged?
@@gaspoweredgarage top swap
Heads from SC motor (Either Series 2 or 3)
Head Bolts, can be OEM replacements or Studs, up to you (Stock are Torque to Yield(one time use)
Head Gaskets
Supercharged valve covers & gaskets
Harmonic Balancer From the SC motor / aftermarket SFI balancer
Tensioner for SC belt
Idlers for Sc belt
Supercharged Coil bracket (some 97 and 98 cars may not need a different bracket)
Lower Intake Manifold from the SC motor( must match with the supercharger you choose) (The bolts are the same, so you can use your old LIM bolts if needed)
Lower intake Manifold Gaskets(the Aluminum ones are the Best)
Fuel Rail(you need the one that matches your fuel system, 97-03 gets the standard rail, while 04+ needs the return-less)
Supercharged injectors or better flowing units
Supercharger Gasket(If you use a Gen III M90 you need O-rings as well)
Gen5 supercharger (2004-08 grand prix) or Gen 3 supercharger (97-03 supercharged 3800's)
Supercharger Belt
Throttle Body from SC motor or Northstar with Mass air also
Throttle adapter for the throttle body you went with.
Supercharged PCM or Stock PCM that's been tuned for top swap
Are you reusing the valves and spring valves and valve keepers that come on the used cylinder heads, or will this job require a new set.
I have al used parts that come from 07 GP SC with 150K miles. I'm planning to do a budget friendly top swap on my 07 GP.
Any good advice from you or someone will be appreciated
For my Top swap setup will be replacing all the valves on the supercharged heads due to 5 or 6 valve are bad and didn't pass a leak test making them need a valve job. When the valve job happens will have the valve springs tested also to make sure they hold proper factory pressure. For your top swap I would test your heads to make sure they seal properly at the valves before installing onto your n/a 3800. Lay each head on the ground with intake port facing up and fill each one up with water and see if it leaks between the valve and head mating surface. Which if its a slow small leak or no leak your good. If it has a steady flow your heads need valve job. Then after that follow the parts I talk about in the video then you should be good to go. Use the 07 supercharged throttle body and then have your computer tuned and enjoy.
@@gaspoweredgarage thank you
Your welcome
Is the top swap for the 3800 the same for the 3900 on a 06 Monte Carlo if I want to super charge it?
3900 is a totally different engine compared to the 3800. None of the parts will interchange between the two engines. Since you have a 06 monte carlo. The cheapest way to make more power would be doing a ls4 swap if your wanting extra power from a 2006-07 ss monte carlo or impala ss. the other option thats more expensive and requires some fab work would be turbocharge your existing 3900 since the engine is the same between the monte carlos and impalas of that year.
@@gaspoweredgarageI thought the 3900s came super charged wit the ss so I figured I could add a super charger I just didn’t know which parts I had to replace first, didn’t think I would have to ls swap
2004-05 monte carlo ss came supercharged 3800. 2006-07 monte carlos with 3900 only came naturally aspirated with no supercharger. There also no companies that produce a supercharger kit for that engine also.
You can install a 3800 supercharged engine and transmission but will require ecu & wiring harness swap also. Which is about the same work as ls4 swap.
@@gaspoweredgarage damn thanks for the info