The weapon used by garrisoned troops is not the same as their normal weapon. Normal weapons are "Primary" and "Secondary" (both with optional Elite variants), garrison weapons are again new weapons with an optional Elite variant (defined as "OccupyWeapon" and "EliteOccupyWeapon"), similar to how elite units get new weapons if specified (otherwise they stick with their old weapon and veteran/elite bonuses). This is different from Battlefortress' "OpenTopped" logic: that one forces the infantry to pick either Primary or Secondary to shoot with. This is different from IFVs' "Gunner" logic: that one forces the vehicle to change weapon based on the infantry type, not the infantry's rank. The Elite version of the weapon is used when the Gunner vehicle is elite. In RA2, there was no "Occupier" logic. Instead, the garrison weapons were given to the buildings (like a Pill Box/Sentry Gun), but the game would only allow them to fire if they had Infantry inside. I'm not sure if the garrison's Primary went to the GI and the Secondary to the Conscript or the other way around. I do believe the "effect" was stacked, depending on how many troops the building held during firing. That is also probably why the garrisoned infantry weren't promoted in RA2: they weren't doing anything but tell the game building X is allowed to fire; so technically, the garrison got the promotion.
Hmm. So can we put one stronger infantry first to equip the building with the good weapon and then fill the rest slots with cheap soldiers? Ex. 1 initiate + 4 conscripts.
Yeah, I think the developers did not balance the attack modifier of initiates inside garrisoned buildings properly. If you put initiates in a large building with a large capacity for garrisons, the extreme DPS instagibs anything that passes by it.
Several questions need to be answered: 1. Is garrison a bunker equivalently act as garrison a civilan building, if enter the same number of infantries? One obvious difference is that you can fix your bunkers by the "wrench" while civilian buildings can be only fixed by engineers. 2. How different if the bunker had entered different number of infantries? I mean it is obvious that entering 6 conscripts will be stronger than entering 1, but is this relationship linear? i.e. if 3 bunkers have 2 conscripts each, will do the same damage as 6 in one bunker. 3. Can we garrison one bunker with mixed infantries? Such as one with 2 conscripts, 2 GIs and 2 initiates, and how the sound/visual effect will be when it attacks, if it is possible?
1. should be the same aslong as its the same number of infantries inside. the trade off for the bunker having less would be that u can place them yourself. civilian buildings are fixed. 2. not sure but logically each infantry does a fixed amount of damage, which is then mulitplied by the amount in the bunker. so 3 bunkers with 2 would do the same if u happen to have 6 in 1 (only holds 5) 3. yes. and the effect changes based on whats shooting out. aswell as the damage. (as you saw initates are OP in buildings)
@@icer1249 The reason I am asking 2 is that, it seems the burrows garrisoned with peons for Orc in Warcraft III is not "linear", i.e. double the number of peons in a burrow does not double the damage. Probably there is not such complicated algorithm in YR.
@@bojugai9174 To correct ur original post, Battle Bunkers in YR hold 5 infantry. Mental Omega mod can hold 6. idk of other mods that edit the amount of infantry that can fit in a Battle Bunker.
3. yes! you can, and it will show you the colour based of what troop it is in. Like, (I may be wrong) red for conscrips, blue for gis, and purple for initiates
Mental Omega is powered by the Ares DLL. Ares DLL is the one that fixes the problem, not MO. I will admit there's nice coding involved in MO, but this kind of thing is beyond the scope of mods and needs to be dealt with in the engine directly; which is where Ares comes in. ares-developers.github.io/Ares-docs/bugfixes/type1/occupierpromotion.html
Great research as always! Can you please do tests with other garrisonable buildings? City house, rural house, rural tualet, neutral bunker, pyramid, tropical hut. Questions: 1. Is the damage formula the same as with Soviet bunker? 2. How much armor/hitpoints various buildings have? 3. Often buildings on a map are damaged. Is it reasonable to spend money to repairing them with an engineer? Or better be building a pillbox instead? 4. Do garrisons take benefits from hill advantage?
To answer your last question, I would say "Yes". Garrisons can get benefit of having a wider range while being in higher postion. Not as big as sniper but still having your garrisoned troops fire at enermies with more range is a huge advantage.
4:02 I wish you tested the other way around too just to double check. aka make one get we are sure are promoted vs another one which is promoted but did not get out.
4:20 so that awnser my question, thanks a lot! another question i read diferent opinions are if a harrier shots two missiles really quick, or just shoots one, acording to the .mix files it carries 2 missiles, but some people still sais it only shoots one... other people sais they saw the CPU change targets so fast that the harrier shoot two different targets in one sortie
Does mixing infantry in the bunker makes a better defence or not?You could do a case study about that(i think it s better for the Mental Omega Mod than YR)
Yuri faction gets some really broken, annoying shits like the Initiates and Gatling Tanks that can tear through everything if you make just one mistake against them. Also the damn Master Mind heavy tanks can wreak havoc in your forces and base before they can be killed by anything, in any mean. Of course we all survived and beat them up in the game but still...
They're balanced by being more generally useful at a higher price, quality > quantity. Which is kinda ruined by your ability to mindcontrol-tower turtle and send all enemy units into the Grinder, but still...
a better way to test this is to use iron curtain. use it on tanks then use bunker to attack. when iron curtain wears off, they will start taking damage at the same time.
GIs' weapon when mobile (SMG) has higher damage and fire rate than the Conscripts' weapon (PPSH-41) but loses against them in one on one because the Conscript has tougher armor.
Hi you know when a unit or a building blows up, sometimes the debris can drop and kill or do damage on nearby units, could you do a video comparing the damage of that? I had seen a conscript getting killed by it. Thanks a lot. Love your videos!
tg hi actually I thought of a way to do it, if you place a lot of power plants or tanks in an area, big enough to make sure the debris can fall on some of them, then you blow up one of the buildings like a power plant in the middle then you can see the damage on other power plants. You can also fly a air unit above the buildings and shoot it down similarly. Also what would happen to crazy Ivans if they are inside a helicopter and the helicopter blows up or get shot down mid air?Thanks.
Actually, due to how deployed units don't count as "Prone" ( = slightly more resistant to damage), deployed GIs might pack firepower and range, but at the cost of higher vulnerability.
@@CnCDune Also they aren't inside a building that takes all the damage for them. if your alert you can quickly deploy them as soon as they pop out for the extra firepower (chances are they gonna get crushed for blown up instantly though)
![Red Alert 2: [YR] - Apocalypse vs Structures](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RGDgLUWmzaI/mqdefault.jpg)
![Red Alert 2: [YR] - Apocalypse vs Structures](/img/tr.png)
The weapon used by garrisoned troops is not the same as their normal weapon.
Normal weapons are "Primary" and "Secondary" (both with optional Elite variants), garrison weapons are again new weapons with an optional Elite variant (defined as "OccupyWeapon" and "EliteOccupyWeapon"), similar to how elite units get new weapons if specified (otherwise they stick with their old weapon and veteran/elite bonuses).
This is different from Battlefortress' "OpenTopped" logic: that one forces the infantry to pick either Primary or Secondary to shoot with.
This is different from IFVs' "Gunner" logic: that one forces the vehicle to change weapon based on the infantry type, not the infantry's rank. The Elite version of the weapon is used when the Gunner vehicle is elite.
In RA2, there was no "Occupier" logic. Instead, the garrison weapons were given to the buildings (like a Pill Box/Sentry Gun), but the game would only allow them to fire if they had Infantry inside.
I'm not sure if the garrison's Primary went to the GI and the Secondary to the Conscript or the other way around. I do believe the "effect" was stacked, depending on how many troops the building held during firing.
That is also probably why the garrisoned infantry weren't promoted in RA2: they weren't doing anything but tell the game building X is allowed to fire; so technically, the garrison got the promotion.
Wow... that is interesting coding
Hmm. So can we put one stronger infantry first to equip the building with the good weapon and then fill the rest slots with cheap soldiers? Ex. 1 initiate + 4 conscripts.
@@legolegs87 interesting
Does it mean that in RA2 one unit is enough for max power building?
@@NebulousOdious no ... as the above mentioned, it stacked according to the number of garrison in the building
Yuri's Initiates have some absurd garrison damage. Like, double the others, iirc.
Yeah, I think the developers did not balance the attack modifier of initiates inside garrisoned buildings properly. If you put initiates in a large building with a large capacity for garrisons, the extreme DPS instagibs anything that passes by it.
UNDERpowered?!?!?
I like the pope, the pope smokes dope you mean OP (overpowered)
An answer to the "do we have to evacuate to get promotions" question! Nice!
"I am NOT swimming out there until you pay me rent!"
I like how the Navy Seals are at the top of the hill the entire time. Slaves haven't come for them yet.
Haha I didn't notice that
And the camel
Several questions need to be answered:
1. Is garrison a bunker equivalently act as garrison a civilan building, if enter the same number of infantries? One obvious difference is that you can fix your bunkers by the "wrench" while civilian buildings can be only fixed by engineers.
2. How different if the bunker had entered different number of infantries? I mean it is obvious that entering 6 conscripts will be stronger than entering 1, but is this relationship linear? i.e. if 3 bunkers have 2 conscripts each, will do the same damage as 6 in one bunker.
3. Can we garrison one bunker with mixed infantries? Such as one with 2 conscripts, 2 GIs and 2 initiates, and how the sound/visual effect will be when it attacks, if it is possible?
1. should be the same aslong as its the same number of infantries inside. the trade off for the bunker having less would be that u can place them yourself. civilian buildings are fixed.
2. not sure but logically each infantry does a fixed amount of damage, which is then mulitplied by the amount in the bunker. so 3 bunkers with 2 would do the same if u happen to have 6 in 1 (only holds 5)
3. yes. and the effect changes based on whats shooting out. aswell as the damage. (as you saw initates are OP in buildings)
@@icer1249 Thanks for your detailed answer.
@@icer1249 The reason I am asking 2 is that, it seems the burrows garrisoned with peons for Orc in Warcraft III is not "linear", i.e. double the number of peons in a burrow does not double the damage. Probably there is not such complicated algorithm in YR.
@@bojugai9174 To correct ur original post, Battle Bunkers in YR hold 5 infantry. Mental Omega mod can hold 6. idk of other mods that edit the amount of infantry that can fit in a Battle Bunker.
3. yes! you can, and it will show you the colour based of what troop it is in. Like, (I may be wrong) red for conscrips, blue for gis, and purple for initiates
Thank you for answering the garrisoned promotion question :)
:D
Reasons of watching tg's video
Main content: 25%
Intermezzo in the ending: 75%
wow...
betul bang, weekend ceria! hahah
4:17 One of life's mysteries has been answered
Ooof, testing this mustn't have been easy.
Indeed! :D
It was easyn't
@@CaveyMoth *s m o r t*
it so hard that you need something to time it perfectly
To answer SOME Questions about this here are the stats by Default:
Note: Damage is doubled with Firepower crate
; Conscript
[M1Carbine]
Damage=15
ROF=25
Range=4
[M1CarbineE]
Damage=20
ROF=25
Range=5
[UCM1Carbine]
Damage=20
ROF=20
Range=6 ;7
[UCEliteM1Carbine]
Damage=30
ROF=20
Range=6 ;7
; Initiate
[PsychicJab]
Damage=25
ROF=15
Range=4.5
[PsychicJabE]
Damage=30
ROF=15
Range=6
[UCPsychicJab]
Damage=63
ROF=15
Range=6 ;7
[UCElitePsychicJab]
Damage=73
ROF=15
Range=6 ;7
; Allied GI
[M60]
Damage=15
ROF=20
Range=4
[M60E]
Damage=25
ROF=20
Range=4
[Para]
Damage=25;23
ROF=15
Range=5
[ParaE]
Damage=25
ROF=15
Range=6
[UCPara]
Damage=30
ROF=15
Range=6 ;7
[UCElitePara]
Damage=40
ROF=15
Range=6 ;7
4:22 In Mental Omega, garrisoned units are announced "unit promoted" after killing a unit.
Mental Omega is powered by the Ares DLL.
Ares DLL is the one that fixes the problem, not MO.
I will admit there's nice coding involved in MO, but this kind of thing is beyond the scope of mods and needs to be dealt with in the engine directly; which is where Ares comes in.
ares-developers.github.io/Ares-docs/bugfixes/type1/occupierpromotion.html
Great research as always!
Can you please do tests with other garrisonable buildings? City house, rural house, rural tualet, neutral bunker, pyramid, tropical hut. Questions:
1. Is the damage formula the same as with Soviet bunker?
2. How much armor/hitpoints various buildings have?
3. Often buildings on a map are damaged. Is it reasonable to spend money to repairing them with an engineer? Or better be building a pillbox instead?
4. Do garrisons take benefits from hill advantage?
Hey, I'll see what I can do.
To answer your last question, I would say "Yes". Garrisons can get benefit of having a wider range while being in higher postion. Not as big as sniper but still having your garrisoned troops fire at enermies with more range is a huge advantage.
1. yes, 3, usually yes as UC infantry are overpowered in YR, especially Initiates and GIs; 4, yes
4:02
I wish you tested the other way around too just to double check.
aka make one get we are sure are promoted vs another one which is promoted but did not get out.
This must be the corona virus edition. Because of the infantry inside bunkers.
Note:Borris is scared of water!!
You could group bunkers aswell to make easier & faster to target
Overlord: Bunker is readyyy
red guards and tank hunters : ok
Awesome video! Do bunkers have more damage output than regular civilian buildings though?
Hmm I could have tested that, good idea.
I'll check it later!
Thanks for answering that last question :)
I like how you can build it so early in the game
In C&C wiki initiate when garrison they gain double the damage output.
Check the codes, and you'll see it's more than that by a slight margin :)
Can you make video about best bulding strategy for soviet and alliance and yuri
4:20 so that awnser my question, thanks a lot! another question i read diferent opinions are if a harrier shots two missiles really quick, or just shoots one, acording to the .mix files it carries 2 missiles, but some people still sais it only shoots one... other people sais they saw the CPU change targets so fast that the harrier shoot two different targets in one sortie
Does mixing infantry in the bunker makes a better defence or not?You could do a case study about that(i think it s better for the Mental Omega Mod than YR)
I curious , how engineer promoted?
Yuri faction gets some really broken, annoying shits like the Initiates and Gatling Tanks that can tear through everything if you make just one mistake against them. Also the damn Master Mind heavy tanks can wreak havoc in your forces and base before they can be killed by anything, in any mean.
Of course we all survived and beat them up in the game but still...
They're balanced by being more generally useful at a higher price, quality > quantity. Which is kinda ruined by your ability to mindcontrol-tower turtle and send all enemy units into the Grinder, but still...
Don't evacuate your infantries to get them promoted, because they are already promoted :)
a better way to test this is to use iron curtain. use it on tanks then use bunker to attack. when iron curtain wears off, they will start taking damage at the same time.
Good tip!
Nobody:
Initiates: *spams "choop" sound intensely*
Dude Testing also, Garrisoning Infantry in Civilian Structure
From 1 soldier to max capacity 10 soldier
Why not use the good old waypointmode to make things better comparable?
You can use it on buildings.
@@tg.Sacred You mean "can't".
You can't use waypoints on buildings, and you can't use them on aircraft either.
@@CnCDune Correct, my bad!
Imagine they gave Yuri the battle bunker...
Soviet conscripts match GIs firepower cause these don't fire their machine guns inside the bunker?
GIs are still stronger in bunkers compared to conscripts but the difference is smaller than compared to the broken "no hands" pyromaniacs.
@@TheValentineEnemy I wonder if these guys do "other" things with "no hands"
GIs' weapon when mobile (SMG) has higher damage and fire rate than the Conscripts' weapon (PPSH-41) but loses against them in one on one because the Conscript has tougher armor.
Teslaboi18 noob
Great one.
You need to get into mental omega comparisons. Huge amount of video potential!
What about attack range? All the same?
Would you be willing to do testing for the Mental Omega mod? I got into it a while back and thought it was very interesting.
Once I finish with RA2 content I will probably give it a try!
Hi you know when a unit or a building blows up, sometimes the debris can drop and kill or do damage on nearby units, could you do a video comparing the damage of that? I had seen a conscript getting killed by it. Thanks a lot. Love your videos!
Also when a flying unit falls down they can also do damage, could you please do a video on that too? Thanks.
DOITNOW00 hey,
This is something I do not have control of though so making a video would be hard.
tg hi actually I thought of a way to do it, if you place a lot of power plants or tanks in an area, big enough to make sure the debris can fall on some of them, then you blow up one of the buildings like a power plant in the middle then you can see the damage on other power plants. You can also fly a air unit above the buildings and shoot it down similarly. Also what would happen to crazy Ivans if they are inside a helicopter and the helicopter blows up or get shot down mid air?Thanks.
Ah yes. More Boris can't swim jokes... Classic
I know it gets annoying but I never used it until now because it fitted the mini story!
Mastermind Tank pls
I'll put that on the list!
IT IS VERY BAD HERE COMRADES- OOAAAAAAH!
How about battle fortress? Is there any difference?
See pinned comment at the top.
Seems I’m first....cool...great content as always!
沒有同步時間 ，還是有落差比較的
Haha Boris can't swim )))))))
good
me at 3am.
Why im in here.
Poor boris
nice
Poor Boris 😂😂😂 RIP 😭
Give me this fucking map
poor boris :(
GI very weak as garrison only deploy they very powerful
Actually, due to how deployed units don't count as "Prone" ( = slightly more resistant to damage), deployed GIs might pack firepower and range, but at the cost of higher vulnerability.
@@CnCDune Also they aren't inside a building that takes all the damage for them. if your alert you can quickly deploy them as soon as they pop out for the extra firepower (chances are they gonna get crushed for blown up instantly though)
noob kid year old