Addendum: the reason why a unit needs 3x its value +1$ is because, for some reason, the first target never delivers its full value for promotion - it's missing a single point. I have dbl-chked this with Phobos DLL's experience-DigitalDisplay. The bug where a single point ends up missing from the first kill happens when the target is GREEN or VETERAN. But if the target is ELITE, then the bug doesn't occur - it also means that Elites are indeed worth exactly 3x their original value.
After running some tests here's what I found: the thing with having to exceed the exact promotion value is not always the case. I made a 500$ vehicle, and after destroying 3 enemy vehicles each worth 500$ , I still needed to kill something at least 1$ worth, just as expected. However, when I kill a single vehicle costing 1500$, for some reason my unit gets promoted immediately. Also tried killing some elite units, usually I get promoted when reaching the exact value, but sometimes I do have to exceed it. So far I wasn't able to deduce the exact reason why.
Regarding the case of the elite units: Maybe it's similar to the first case you described, when you kill the needed value AT ONCE, you get promoted, but if you do it "in portions", you have to add the +1 ?
Addendum: the reason why a unit needs 3x its value +1$ is because, for some reason, the first target never delivers its full value for promotion - it's missing a single point. I have dbl-chked this with Phobos DLL's experience-DigitalDisplay. The bug where a single point ends up missing from the first kill happens when the target is GREEN or VETERAN. But if the target is ELITE, then the bug doesn't occur - it also means that Elites are indeed worth exactly 3x their original value.
@@ruihaogong7809 lol i imagined a squad of yuri clones sneaking through the soviet base via where the base gets its resources only for them to get mowed down by 5 War miners XD
11:44 Note that in Vanilla YR promotion does not occur on units inside a garrison, only when they exit the garrison. This means the veteran/elite abilities and weapons do not kick in until they exist the garrison.
Amazing work you did there. Even as a C&C expert for years, you taught me something new. Thank you for making those videos and keep the great work up! 👍
Mate, I only just stumbled across your videos recently and I love them. The C&C franchise doesn't get much coverage compared to most other games and it's one of my most favourite franchises. I subscribed. Your videos are super informative and well made. Also, you made me start playing the whole franchise again from the beginning.
This is definitely can be completed full guide of the RA2, greatly thanks for your effort and time for preparing this perfect video! (I know it would be time-consuming during preparation!)
Minor Suggestions: Promoted while garrison is the reason I edited RulesMD.ini to make Tesla Trooper and Guardian GI garrisonable. Dammit with these 2 enter the building together there is no one who can pass. But every Chrono units is not suggest to garrison, the game will crash. Garrisonned units will have specific range thought, not their original range, I tested with Sniper and Virus and they shoot the same range as Conscript in building.
I edited RulesMD.ini to make 3 Hero units can enter the building. Nothing can't pass! But game crash when Yuri Prime leave the buiding with a mind controled unit.
@@MadMatty01 they get the Apocalypse Tank's explosive shell as well as more armor. At this point only flying units, massed tanks the Terror Drone or Magnetron can really threaten them. Tanya might get in if you can distract the elite War Miner, but the other Commando units will be shot up. A Chrono Legionnaire can also pause the WM at risk of being attacked by other units
I like how you put World In Conflict in the background. Edit: the reason why that extra 1$ is needed for promotion is because a unit's or buildings first kill always grants one experience point *less* than it should. Example: Pillbox needs 1500 for veteran, but its first 500$ Flak Track only grants it *499* points. Therefore it needs that extra 1$ to reach 1500 points. I do not know why that is. Special thanks to Phobos' new Digital Display feature which also shows experience points which led to that conclusion.
while i was plating yuri's revenge while attacking i saw a lasher tank and floating disk that are both elite the floating disc was covering the lasher tank and merged the promotion tag and i thought i saw a floating disc with 4 stripes
you forgot this there is a bug where you can order unit to foce attack a barracks/tank factory and then order engineer to fix that building via waypoint with a spy this way the spy gonna enter *your* building and you will get easy veterancy I didn't test it in yuri's revenge tho but it works in red alert 2 for sure
Only one exception of promoted engineers case: in the compaign of allies in RA2, Free Gateway, they were given from the start. So the testing map with 'enemy' enigneers and ore miners are done by a map editor?
Not quite; HARV has more strength than HTNK, and the medium armor used by the HARV is generally set to be less harmed by most warheads, as opposed to heavy and light armors.
Fun fact: There is a veterancy icon for Attack Dogs in the sidebar if you edit the files and let them gain veterancy. It looks bulkier as if they just slapped the image behind the Tiberian Sun font. Which is another thing about those promotions; Tiberian Sun had the unit icon and text being separate. So you could name the unit whatever you wanted in the files and it'd be above the icon. But in Red Alert 2, since they needed a veteran icon and for some reason it couldn't just be spliced in as another layer, it's all part of the unit icon itself along with the text so now if you wanted to make a custom unit, you had to create a custom icon with the text below since the game won't do it for you :(
Great video! I do think I have 1 addition. As I recall it is also possible to promote an IFV to veteran/elite by killing your own units using the chrono legionaire inside. This way the IFV gets the promotion instead of the chrono legionaire.
Fun fact: Liberated slaves cost 0 since they were built for free from the original player's slave miner, as a result if they kill ANYTHING they are instantly promoted to Elite. Quick question though, do variants of normal units (such as black guard Apoc tanks and coast guard destroyers) share the same costs as the normal unit that they are modified versions of?
They share the same stats. The Black Guard is just standard Soviet arsenal, but with Apocs already elite (and scary). Coast Guard boats have the same stats as the regular Destroyer, but they are not the same unit.
@@CnCDune Yeah, I thought that the black guard's apoc tank was actually a statistically superior unit from normal elite apoc tanks. Turned out that I was referencing a part of the apoc tank's C&C wiki entry that I didn't realize had since been edited out nearly eight years ago. From 2010 to some point in 2012 it claimed the following: "Romanov's Black Guards owned four Elite Apocalypse which they deployed around the Kremlin. However, these apocalypse tanks had longer range, were faster, had more armor, more firepower, and a higher rate of fire than any other elite apocalypse tank, even ones that had acquired the armor, speed, and firepower crate upgrades." I had to go digging through the page's edit history just to find it and confirm that I wasn't going crazy. :\
@@HasekuraIsuna Yes, except that a Hornet costs 50 rather than the 0 of the slave. So a single GI/Initiate (or 2 Conscripts) promotes it to veteran, anything else would give it instant elite promotion as only $300 is required for elite.
idk why but i for the longest time of thought there was a third promotion like >>, and i always was confused when it would jump from rank 1 to 3 immediately..
Second in between promotion was introduced in the generals games. It's: ^ - Veteran, ^^ - Elite, ^^^ - Heroic And I've seen some mods where there was a 3rd - "Ace" and 5th "Legendary" promo
About garrisoning troops, two questions: 1) Do promotional bonuses apply to garrisoned troops? 2) If yes, does the soldier need to be ejected first for the "unit promoted" message and then regarrisoned, or do the bonuses take effect straight away?
@@tg.Sacred Thanks tg. I havent played the game in a while, but I remember there were a few odd things in YR such as elite infantry not healing when they were in buildings
Also, units will benefit from crates that give extra firepower and extra defense etc... it would give them status from the veteran and elite ranks while not affecting their buffs from the respective ranks,which means they benefit from ranking up even if they got a buff crate.this also works with veteran and elite units.
I wonder how different the promotion system is for Red Alert 3 because you have to go up three ranks before you can reach elite unless they introduced a higher rank for that game which is what I'm gonna assume it is given its a star as the final promotion.
I feel like the spy is overpowered. I always thought it was odd that the Allies somehow don't have airplane technology in Red Alert, and their spy and thief did nothing to mitigate this. And in Red Alert 2, somehow the notorious Soviets cannot grasp the concept of 'espionage', making a cat-and-mouse game of whether the Allies manage to obtain the most broken units in the game.
Ignoring possible idiosyncrasy, perhaps we can test the value of elite units by having the most expensive normal attacking the cheapest elite and count the kill required for promotion, and taking the *strictly* above 3 or 6 time of original cost rule into account.
Addendum: the reason why a unit needs 3x its value +1$ is because, for some reason, the first unit never delivers its value for promotion - it's missing a single point. I have dbl-chked this with Phobos DLL's experience-DigitalDisplay. The bug where a single point ends up missing from the first kill happens when the target is GREEN or VETERAN. But if the target is ELITE, then the bug doesn't occur.
Are garrisoned units promoted while inside, or do they only get promoted upon exit? Basically, do you need to leave the building in order to benefit from a promotion?
At the end of the video, we saw that when the infantry leaves the building - it gets promoted for the kills it's done while being inside. Does this mean that it didn't get promoted instantly beforehand, like, the moment it earned the promotion? And so do we have to make the infantry leave the building form time to time in oder for it to get their earned promotion and benefit from better statistics?
I doubt it works that way. I am pretty sure the infantry gain all the advantages without exiting the building for the promotion to show but I can't be sure until I test it.
Don't have data but from my experience I think the promotion is just visual effect. Getting promoted upgrades the weapon instantly without leaving building. Try testing with an Initiate as being elite lets it shoot faster (more visual effect).
Good video. Learnt something new today. Question for you, which of the armies long-range artillery vehicles has the best value? Soviet V3 Launcher, Allied Prisim or Yuri Magnatron?
All are good in their own way. Soviets are the longest range but can be intercepted by defenses, allied prisims can be intercepted by walls and the magnetron gets vehicles close to it.
Huh, no wonder it felt like my units should have been promoted whenever I counted the exact value. All because they set the promotion to something like "experience > (unit_value * 3)" instead of >= (greater than or equal to) or the like.
there's a function called "armory" and using those buildings can promote immediately to elite, even for dogs and spies. available in editor. however, you should give it an ammo count, otherwise it's one time use only.
the reason infantry do not promote when garrisoned in RA2 original is because garrisonable buildings themselves have a weapon, and use that weapon when infantry is garrisoned inside, and only two weapons are available: soviet and allied guns. with RA2 yuri's revenge, the building weapon is removed and "allow infantry to fire" is added, which allows ANY infantry to use their own weapon when garrisoned, as long as they can do it.
An IFV with a Chrono Legionnaire in it also promotes insanely fast. Like it doesn't need 3x value to become Veteran or Elite. Or it feels like it doesn't.
Elite status was intended to cumulatively give Armor bonus! Stacking with Veteran level's bonus. The reason why this did not work as intended could be a code issue - perhaps 2 instances of STRONGER cannot stack, but by creating STRONGERE then they both can finally stack.
@tg In 4:03min you sad that there is a chance that low tier value units can skip veteran and can go straigt to elite. As an example you show us an Grizly (700) kill a Elite War Miner (more then 3 times 1400 = more then 4200). 6 times 700 from the grizzly is 4200 so it is completly normal that the grizly gos straight to elite isent it?
Another great video on the mechanics of games! Thank you for all your efforts. If multiple units are attacking, is the experience split, or does only the last unit to shoot get the work towards promotion? Does the game actually track individual units in a building when looking for experience gains?
I think the firing through walls is intended for the Elite Tesla Trooper, as it's a nice reward for getting an elite unit. Definitely a bug for the Chrono Legionairre, though.
Seems naval units like Aircraft Carriers don't get any bonus to their "firepower", just to their health and other stats, since its the Hornets that do the damage and earn their own ranks. Does a veteran Aircraft Carrier even "reload" their Hornets faster? Speaking of which, what's the credit value of Hornets?
Example: Soviet war miner is worth 1400$, and an allied spy is 1000$, meaning: it takes 5 spies to kill to promote to veteran. And, 9 spies to fully promote to elite status.
i think you forgot to clarify something, when a garrisoned unit gains a rank, does the bonus apply the moment it reach those points or are you forced to evacuate it first in order to get it applyed (the moment you hear the tururi and gets the chevrons)?
@@tg.Sacred is there a launcher? I've tried compatibility settings in every way and while I get it to launch I can not get it to render. I'll Google that later.
What about garrisoned infantry and promotions? Promoted infantry deal more damage when garrisoned, but they can't get the promotion until they exit. A good thing to do is to re-garrison buildings between fights. Also, battle fortress and promoted infantry? I haven't tested that much, but iirc promoted units inside deal more damage, but all exp from kills goes to the battle fortress. Since the BF lets units inside use their own weapon (unlike IFV), I believe Elite infantry will use their elite weapons as well..
Regarding the Garrisoned units I need to test that. Regarding the Battle Fortress, veteran and elite units inside it will perform better. There's also a video where you can see it. But you can't promote those units through it since the experience is given to Battle fortress.
8:44 some units in the game cant be promoted at all because most of them dont have a weapon Well I thought crushing acted as a kill and a way of promoting (which is in the case for most of the units like the mastermind and mcvs and the robot tank) plus terror drone's weapon is just clinging onto a unit and killing it overtime Also robot tank has a weapon so why doesnt it rank up?
Firehawk Ph4ntom for some units there is no point for promotion despite the fact they can kill by crushing for example. Robot tank is a ... robot so maybe it doesn’t fit for a non human unit to have promotions. Same applies to the dog.
@@tg.Sacred In that case: Carriers get standard strength, firepower (though completely useless because damage is done by the Hornets, not the Carrier itself), ROF (also useless since Hornet reload-logic isn't tied to veterancy) and speed bonus. At elite they get self-heal.
Do garrisoned units get their promotion straight away or do they need to be ejected first? Also does the rank effect them in garrison? I'm pretty certain they do fire faster from buildings but not sure when in a vehicle 🤔
The rank effects garrison weapon. Veteran get firepower and ROF boost, elite maintain the bonus and carry it over to the new elite weapon they get. But they need to exit to promote first. Note: the weapon used in garrisons is not the same used in BFs. Statistically it might be the same, but they're still different. Can't chk deeper at the moment.
Thanks for the video, really interesting! 🙂👍 Can anyone tell me why a unit can only have either 1 or 3 military degrees, but never two? I've wondered about this since I was a small child back when I first played the game. 😅
![Red Alert 2: [YR] - Testing Your Questions #4](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4dtF-qQ4HCk/mqdefault.jpg)
Addendum: the reason why a unit needs 3x its value +1$ is because, for some reason, the first target never delivers its full value for promotion - it's missing a single point.
I have dbl-chked this with Phobos DLL's experience-DigitalDisplay.
The bug where a single point ends up missing from the first kill happens when the target is GREEN or VETERAN.
But if the target is ELITE, then the bug doesn't occur - it also means that Elites are indeed worth exactly 3x their original value.
You are like Spirit of the Law but for RA2.
or like Cybershell but without the multi-year hiatuses lol
This made me subscribe this channel at once. :D
hey guys spirit of tg here.
So true hahaha
It's the Spirit of Command (and Conquer!)
Many engineers were harmed in the making of this film.
For science!
They were promoted though so they at least made $1501 each before they died
I forgot that engineers can't do anything when promoted
How engineer are promoted?
"This is to easy"
Yes.. yes it is
"Most player knows that it has to kill x3 its cost"
Well... I didn't know that!
These guides are awesome. Lots of mechanics that I didn’t fully know until now.
This vid turned out more satisfying than I expected.
Love ur vids!
Looking at the BF crushing vehicles makes me damn satisfied
BF can crush four Allies basic tanks at one time believe or not.
@@gamefixyour1749 Do you have footage of this happening?
I'm absolutely amazed at your attention to detail. Well done!
After running some tests here's what I found: the thing with having to exceed the exact promotion value is not always the case.
I made a 500$ vehicle, and after destroying 3 enemy vehicles each worth 500$ , I still needed to kill something at least 1$ worth, just as expected. However, when I kill a single vehicle costing 1500$, for some reason my unit gets promoted immediately.
Also tried killing some elite units, usually I get promoted when reaching the exact value, but sometimes I do have to exceed it. So far I wasn't able to deduce the exact reason why.
Regarding the case of the elite units: Maybe it's similar to the first case you described, when you kill the needed value AT ONCE, you get promoted, but if you do it "in portions", you have to add the +1 ?
Addendum: the reason why a unit needs 3x its value +1$ is because, for some reason, the first target never delivers its full value for promotion - it's missing a single point.
I have dbl-chked this with Phobos DLL's experience-DigitalDisplay.
The bug where a single point ends up missing from the first kill happens when the target is GREEN or VETERAN.
But if the target is ELITE, then the bug doesn't occur - it also means that Elites are indeed worth exactly 3x their original value.
Fun fact: Soviet's War miner actually can be promoted, and when get into elite stage it can shoot through walls
@J. O. that is why it can shoot through war btw
The best Soviet unit to fight yuri.
@@ruihaogong7809 lol i imagined a squad of yuri clones sneaking through the soviet base via where the base gets its resources only for them to get mowed down by 5 War miners XD
@J. O.
How does its tank cannon compares to that of Rhino or Grizzly?
i need this video 20 years ago.
Wait, TWENTY already? Oh my god...
I still play them
Played this game for 15 years now, still learning new things. Thanks for your videos
This is some ridiculously meticulous work! I'm amazed at it
Nice in-depth video man, thank you for showing it to the community !
Hands down the best video you have put out to date. Thank you.
This is long overdue! Thank you!
11:44 Note that in Vanilla YR promotion does not occur on units inside a garrison, only when they exit the garrison. This means the veteran/elite abilities and weapons do not kick in until they exist the garrison.
Amazing work you did there. Even as a C&C expert for years, you taught me something new. Thank you for making those videos and keep the great work up! 👍
Mate, I only just stumbled across your videos recently and I love them. The C&C franchise doesn't get much coverage compared to most other games and it's one of my most favourite franchises. I subscribed. Your videos are super informative and well made. Also, you made me start playing the whole franchise again from the beginning.
Hey, thanks a lot. Happy to see such reactions!
This is definitely can be completed full guide of the RA2, greatly thanks for your effort and time for preparing this perfect video! (I know it would be time-consuming during preparation!)
Great stuff as always. This is a must-see video for all RA2 fans.
That final quote "There is much to learn!" was the cherry on top of the cake!
Minor Suggestions:
Promoted while garrison is the reason I edited RulesMD.ini to make Tesla Trooper and Guardian GI garrisonable. Dammit with these 2 enter the building together there is no one who can pass.
But every Chrono units is not suggest to garrison, the game will crash.
Garrisonned units will have specific range thought, not their original range, I tested with Sniper and Virus and they shoot the same range as Conscript in building.
Now that featured on Red Alert 3. Still, fuck EA
I edited RulesMD.ini to make 3 Hero units can enter the building.
Nothing can't pass!
But game crash when Yuri Prime leave the buiding with a mind controled unit.
That's why we'd better stick with basic units
New unofficial objective: Get an elite War Miner....
If I remember correctly, they get a grenade launcher as their elite weapon
@@MadMatty01 it actually a cannon like tanks, but it work better against infantry than normal tank and can shoot through wars
cannon which fire faster than main battle tank but less damage
war miners works well against yuri
because their cannot mind-controled
@@MadMatty01 they get the Apocalypse Tank's explosive shell as well as more armor. At this point only flying units, massed tanks the Terror Drone or Magnetron can really threaten them.
Tanya might get in if you can distract the elite War Miner, but the other Commando units will be shot up. A Chrono Legionnaire can also pause the WM at risk of being attacked by other units
The annoying easterislan map I made a miner rush... it worked brilliantly.
Ten years later:
RA3 promotion guide😂
@Chuuu like you mom
elite rhino not only gain extra weapon and self-heal but also extra speed as well
10:30 it's the most satisfying thing i've ever see in the history of this game. period.
great content, still now a days there are someone who anylysing this game, salute boss
10:31 battle fortress:someone should fix this road >:[
10:45 if you know that monster truck madness reference, you're so damn old and so damn happy.
thanks for all the effort you put in!
I like how you put World In Conflict in the background.
Edit: the reason why that extra 1$ is needed for promotion is because a unit's or buildings first kill always grants one experience point *less* than it should.
Example: Pillbox needs 1500 for veteran, but its first 500$ Flak Track only grants it *499* points. Therefore it needs that extra 1$ to reach 1500 points.
I do not know why that is.
Special thanks to Phobos' new Digital Display feature which also shows experience points which led to that conclusion.
while i was plating yuri's revenge while attacking i saw a lasher tank and floating disk that are both elite the floating disc was covering the lasher tank and merged the promotion tag and i thought i saw a floating disc with 4 stripes
12:02 I think Chrono Miners have the property "AvoidThreats" by default. That's why it avoided the garrisoned Initiates.
Is that valid or just a joke?
I need to look into it.
@@tg.Sacred the Chrono Miner is very smart when it sees threats, expect when gold is in the enemies places lol
you forgot this there is a bug where you can order unit to foce attack a barracks/tank factory and then order engineer to fix that building via waypoint with a spy this way the spy gonna enter *your* building and you will get easy veterancy I didn't test it in yuri's revenge tho but it works in red alert 2 for sure
G-MAN I think it doesn’t work in YR
@@tg.Sacred It was fixed by RA2 1.006 and YR 1.001 at the latest, IIRC.
Amazing test !!!, You really deserve much more subscribers.
Feels like now I know everything about RA2!!
Only one exception of promoted engineers case: in the compaign of allies in RA2, Free Gateway, they were given from the start. So the testing map with 'enemy' enigneers and ore miners are done by a map editor?
It was. I used FinalAlert2 1.02: ppmforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=47342
12:02 Chrono Miner escaping from yuri basic infantry unit attack for their promotion attempt.
Uh... yes?
I like how an elite War Miner essentially becomes a Rhino tank with very high armor.
Not quite; HARV has more strength than HTNK, and the medium armor used by the HARV is generally set to be less harmed by most warheads, as opposed to heavy and light armors.
Fun fact: There is a veterancy icon for Attack Dogs in the sidebar if you edit the files and let them gain veterancy. It looks bulkier as if they just slapped the image behind the Tiberian Sun font.
Which is another thing about those promotions; Tiberian Sun had the unit icon and text being separate. So you could name the unit whatever you wanted in the files and it'd be above the icon.
But in Red Alert 2, since they needed a veteran icon and for some reason it couldn't just be spliced in as another layer, it's all part of the unit icon itself along with the text so now if you wanted to make a custom unit, you had to create a custom icon with the text below since the game won't do it for you :(
This is largely a consequence of using an older engine than the TS engine.
Great video! I do think I have 1 addition. As I recall it is also possible to promote an IFV to veteran/elite by killing your own units using the chrono legionaire inside. This way the IFV gets the promotion instead of the chrono legionaire.
Related to how Chrono Legionnaire is also promoted by erasing his fellow team-mates.
Amazing! In 2020 it's a perfect video! I really like Red Alert series and still playing RA2 nowadays.
Adding promotion benefits to soldiers in garrisoned buildings was such a welcome touch.
Fun fact: Liberated slaves cost 0 since they were built for free from the original player's slave miner, as a result if they kill ANYTHING they are instantly promoted to Elite.
Quick question though, do variants of normal units (such as black guard Apoc tanks and coast guard destroyers) share the same costs as the normal unit that they are modified versions of?
I doubt they have any difference but that needs to be checked through an editor.
They share the same stats.
The Black Guard is just standard Soviet arsenal, but with Apocs already elite (and scary).
Coast Guard boats have the same stats as the regular Destroyer, but they are not the same unit.
@@CnCDune Yeah, I thought that the black guard's apoc tank was actually a statistically superior unit from normal elite apoc tanks. Turned out that I was referencing a part of the apoc tank's C&C wiki entry that I didn't realize had since been edited out nearly eight years ago.
From 2010 to some point in 2012 it claimed the following: "Romanov's Black Guards owned four Elite Apocalypse which they deployed around the Kremlin. However, these apocalypse tanks had longer range, were faster, had more armor, more firepower, and a higher rate of fire than any other elite apocalypse tank, even ones that had acquired the armor, speed, and firepower crate upgrades."
I had to go digging through the page's edit history just to find it and confirm that I wasn't going crazy. :\
Is this why Hornets also seem to get Elite instantly?
@@HasekuraIsuna Yes, except that a Hornet costs 50 rather than the 0 of the slave.
So a single GI/Initiate (or 2 Conscripts) promotes it to veteran, anything else would give it instant elite promotion as only $300 is required for elite.
Such information. Damn it feels good :)
Sage of RA2! Share with us your wisdom!
I am here, learning this after 20 years first time playing RA2.
idk why but i for the longest time of thought there was a third promotion like >>, and i always was confused when it would jump from rank 1 to 3 immediately..
Second in between promotion was introduced in the generals games. It's: ^ - Veteran, ^^ - Elite, ^^^ - Heroic
And I've seen some mods where there was a 3rd - "Ace" and 5th "Legendary" promo
Emperor: Battle for Dune
also had two ^. So there were 4 veterancy states
About garrisoning troops, two questions:
1) Do promotional bonuses apply to garrisoned troops?
2) If yes, does the soldier need to be ejected first for the "unit promoted" message and then regarrisoned, or do the bonuses take effect straight away?
fartx211 they do yes. As it seems you need to avacuate your troops but further testing needs to be done
@@tg.Sacred Thanks tg. I havent played the game in a while, but I remember there were a few odd things in YR such as elite infantry not healing when they were in buildings
Also, units will benefit from crates that give extra firepower and extra defense etc... it would give them status from the veteran and elite ranks while not affecting their buffs from the respective ranks,which means they benefit from ranking up even if they got a buff crate.this also works with veteran and elite units.
Yes, they get extra bonuses on top of their rank.
I wonder how different the promotion system is for Red Alert 3 because you have to go up three ranks before you can reach elite unless they introduced a higher rank for that game which is what I'm gonna assume it is given its a star as the final promotion.
Nice Video I really learn a lot from the demonstration
I feel like the spy is overpowered. I always thought it was odd that the Allies somehow don't have airplane technology in Red Alert, and their spy and thief did nothing to mitigate this. And in Red Alert 2, somehow the notorious Soviets cannot grasp the concept of 'espionage', making a cat-and-mouse game of whether the Allies manage to obtain the most broken units in the game.
i miss your own edits i love em so much
and speaking of promotion buffs, each units have their own differences on the buffs.
Wow man, what an amazing and useful video!!!
Ignoring possible idiosyncrasy, perhaps we can test the value of elite units by having the most expensive normal attacking the cheapest elite and count the kill required for promotion, and taking the *strictly* above 3 or 6 time of original cost rule into account.
Addendum: the reason why a unit needs 3x its value +1$ is because, for some reason, the first unit never delivers its value for promotion - it's missing a single point.
I have dbl-chked this with Phobos DLL's experience-DigitalDisplay.
The bug where a single point ends up missing from the first kill happens when the target is GREEN or VETERAN.
But if the target is ELITE, then the bug doesn't occur.
Are garrisoned units promoted while inside, or do they only get promoted upon exit? Basically, do you need to leave the building in order to benefit from a promotion?
I am pretty sure you don't need to exit the building for units to take advantage of their promotion but I can't answer you 100% until I test it.
Yes, you do.
Engine bug.
Yes, they are promoted upon exiting. Cuz only at exit EVA says that unit is promoted.
Annoying, but thats how this is.
At the end of the video, we saw that when the infantry leaves the building - it gets promoted for the kills it's done while being inside. Does this mean that it didn't get promoted instantly beforehand, like, the moment it earned the promotion? And so do we have to make the infantry leave the building form time to time in oder for it to get their earned promotion and benefit from better statistics?
I doubt it works that way. I am pretty sure the infantry gain all the advantages without exiting the building for the promotion to show but I can't be sure until I test it.
Don't have data but from my experience I think the promotion is just visual effect. Getting promoted upgrades the weapon instantly without leaving building. Try testing with an Initiate as being elite lets it shoot faster (more visual effect).
This explains why Chrono-IFV promotes at lightning speed.
Good video. Learnt something new today.
Question for you, which of the armies long-range artillery vehicles has the best value? Soviet V3 Launcher, Allied Prisim or Yuri Magnatron?
All are good in their own way. Soviets are the longest range but can be intercepted by defenses, allied prisims can be intercepted by walls and the magnetron gets vehicles close to it.
*Me having a PTSD flashback against a large group of Prism Tank*
Seeing a prism tank platoon going straight at you is as traumatizing as hearing 'Kirov reporting! '
DOGGO_ Woo I thought Prism Tank don’t give a crap about wall it will shoot right through it
I assume he/she meant walls can stop prism tanks from advancing any further, since they are incapable of damaging walls by themselves.
Huh, no wonder it felt like my units should have been promoted whenever I counted the exact value. All because they set the promotion to something like "experience > (unit_value * 3)" instead of >= (greater than or equal to) or the like.
Yes! Greater than! Not equals!
Do promotions affect the performance of garrisoned infantry in any way?
Edit: Wanted to say you're awesome, tg! Keep up the fascinating work!
Parker Hancey yes definitely!
We only need to find out whether units need to exit first for the promotion to take effect.
@@tg.Sacred When will a video on that be coming? :p
Jason Stephen can’t say for sure but I believe within a month
Also you can promote IFV (with chrono legioner inside) by killing allied units.
I played Red Alert & Yuri's Revenge during 2000s and I was a kid, I was just playing whatever. Now I'm a adult and these all made sense. 😌👍
there's a function called "armory" and using those buildings can promote immediately to elite, even for dogs and spies. available in editor. however, you should give it an ammo count, otherwise it's one time use only.
the reason infantry do not promote when garrisoned in RA2 original is because garrisonable buildings themselves have a weapon, and use that weapon when infantry is garrisoned inside, and only two weapons are available: soviet and allied guns. with RA2 yuri's revenge, the building weapon is removed and "allow infantry to fire" is added, which allows ANY infantry to use their own weapon when garrisoned, as long as they can do it.
as for the cost increase for promotions, those can be found in the game codes. i can't remember the values any more...it's been too long.
An IFV with a Chrono Legionnaire in it also promotes insanely fast. Like it doesn't need 3x value to become Veteran or Elite. Or it feels like it doesn't.
I'm playing RA2 19 years already... but I didn't know this :D
Elite status was intended to cumulatively give Armor bonus! Stacking with Veteran level's bonus. The reason why this did not work as intended could be a code issue - perhaps 2 instances of STRONGER cannot stack, but by creating STRONGERE then they both can finally stack.
...this would have to be tested...
@tg In 4:03min you sad that there is a chance that low tier value units can skip veteran and can go straigt to elite. As an example you show us an Grizly (700) kill a Elite War Miner (more then 3 times 1400 = more then 4200). 6 times 700 from the grizzly is 4200 so it is completly normal that the grizly gos straight to elite isent it?
Tatha exactly. An elite war miner is valued more than 6 times of grizzlys original value thus it gets promoted instantly to elite
I still have a question: will the gi, conscript or initiate will perform better in garrison when promoted?
boatadd33 yes of course !
Well, the garrison/occupy weapon of the elite is an improved version :)
Do you have to abandon building first to activate the promotion effect or the effect already active when it get promoted while garrison
@@kratosgow342 exit first.
@@tg.Sacred unit promoted which get which upgrage weapon new
A man carried a tech of Red Alert 2
Tg :3
Another great video on the mechanics of games! Thank you for all your efforts.
If multiple units are attacking, is the experience split, or does only the last unit to shoot get the work towards promotion? Does the game actually track individual units in a building when looking for experience gains?
Chainsaw Aardvark only the unit that lands the killing hit gains the experience. I think in Ra 3 it’s split.
12:05 outstanding move
Wohhh... New video... 🤗🤗
First job.. Open it & Hit like button, thn see the title. Thn finish the video. 😌😌😌
Love RA2 Love tg 😍😍😍
Elite yuri clones get a substantial bonus to mind control range also.
I think the firing through walls is intended for the Elite Tesla Trooper, as it's a nice reward for getting an elite unit.
Definitely a bug for the Chrono Legionairre, though.
At least 2 or more superweapons is needed to destroy in order for a single Dreadnought to be promoted to elite
Also veteran and elite share the same speed compared to basic, in other words, veteran and elites have faster movement speed
put the mouse cursor above the unit you want to crush and press alt button to crush it
Seems naval units like Aircraft Carriers don't get any bonus to their "firepower", just to their health and other stats, since its the Hornets that do the damage and earn their own ranks. Does a veteran Aircraft Carrier even "reload" their Hornets faster?
Speaking of which, what's the credit value of Hornets?
That would be 50!
Example: Soviet war miner is worth 1400$, and an allied spy is 1000$, meaning: it takes 5 spies to kill to promote to veteran. And, 9 spies to fully promote to elite status.
i think you forgot to clarify something, when a garrisoned unit gains a rank, does the bonus apply the moment it reach those points or are you forced to evacuate it first in order to get it applyed (the moment you hear the tururi and gets the chevrons)?
picoletor that needs a separate video
Now if only I could get this to run on my W10 pos -.-
J E have y ok tried the Cnc launcher ?
@@tg.Sacred is there a launcher? I've tried compatibility settings in every way and while I get it to launch I can not get it to render.
I'll Google that later.
J E I have a video on my channel about that. You can check it if you want.
Sorry for commenting this but I really miss World In Conflict..... C&C ann that game made my childhood so much nostalgia
Me too mate, me too :(
What about garrisoned infantry and promotions? Promoted infantry deal more damage when garrisoned, but they can't get the promotion until they exit. A good thing to do is to re-garrison buildings between fights.
Also, battle fortress and promoted infantry? I haven't tested that much, but iirc promoted units inside deal more damage, but all exp from kills goes to the battle fortress. Since the BF lets units inside use their own weapon (unlike IFV), I believe Elite infantry will use their elite weapons as well..
Regarding the Garrisoned units I need to test that.
Regarding the Battle Fortress, veteran and elite units inside it will perform better. There's also a video where you can see it.
But you can't promote those units through it since the experience is given to Battle fortress.
Awesome guide, never bothered to find out how promotion works. Do you know if the same formula is used in other C&C games?
Maxmilian no unfortunately I have no idea for the rest Cnc titles
the older games use cost logic. newer games use "value" logic.
The last version of the game disable the Chronolegionaire promotion exploit.
Did it really? I thought that was Ares DLL.
8:44 some units in the game cant be promoted at all because most of them dont have a weapon
Well I thought crushing acted as a kill and a way of promoting (which is in the case for most of the units like the mastermind and mcvs and the robot tank) plus terror drone's weapon is just clinging onto a unit and killing it overtime
Also robot tank has a weapon so why doesnt it rank up?
Same goes with dogs
Firehawk Ph4ntom for some units there is no point for promotion despite the fact they can kill by crushing for example.
Robot tank is a ... robot so maybe it doesn’t fit for a non human unit to have promotions. Same applies to the dog.
What about Allied Aircrafts promoted via crates? They just benefit the extra speed, health and self-healing?
They're also promotable by destroying things, you know...
But yes, their benefits are the same.
@@CnCDune He probably means the naval Aircraft Carriers.
@@tg.Sacred In that case: Carriers get standard strength, firepower (though completely useless because damage is done by the Hornets, not the Carrier itself), ROF (also useless since Hornet reload-logic isn't tied to veterancy) and speed bonus.
At elite they get self-heal.
Do garrisoned units get their promotion straight away or do they need to be ejected first? Also does the rank effect them in garrison? I'm pretty certain they do fire faster from buildings but not sure when in a vehicle 🤔
Promoted units are stronger within the garrison but whether they need to exit first that needs to be tested.
The rank effects garrison weapon.
Veteran get firepower and ROF boost, elite maintain the bonus and carry it over to the new elite weapon they get.
But they need to exit to promote first.
Note: the weapon used in garrisons is not the same used in BFs.
Statistically it might be the same, but they're still different. Can't chk deeper at the moment.
Amazing work
11:40 Garrisoned units gaining promotion. Do they benefit while still inside or do you need to leave and re-enter to activate the bonuses?
They do not need to evacuate the building for the promotion to count.
What about a battle fortress garrisoned with infantries? I used those a lot and they promotes quite easily even without crushing anything.
Teerapol Sukhonwimolmal the units inside won’t be promoted since the experience is given to battle fortress
Except the chrono legionaires, it seems.
I wonder how much is hornet slave and the jet on the ailles curiser
And how about missles? can we gain veterancy by destroying missles?
Jill Valentine as said on previous comments by tako2
Slaves are worth 0
Hornets are worth 50
Missiles from dreadnought 50
11:45 but the garrisoned infantry units does got promoted in RA2
0:05 music name pls
Sweet video!
Thanks for the video, really interesting! 🙂👍
Can anyone tell me why a unit can only have either 1 or 3 military degrees, but never two?
I've wondered about this since I was a small child back when I first played the game. 😅
No particular reason other than it was programmed that way.
Tell me more about promoted engineers which are in video and cannot be promoted
Arvydas Al map editor