Overanalyzing House of the Dragon, Part 25: Aegon's Children and Vaemond's Petition

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 146

  • @falsename226
    @falsename226 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    The reasoning behind Daeron being sent to Oldtown is pretty obvious I thought. If King's Landing falls and or Aemond and Aegon are dead or incapacitated, the Greens still have a son, a dragon, and a quarter of the treasury in the centre of (what they assume to be) the most loyal and powerful Green stronghold. It's not a plot contrivance that Daeron is in the Reach able to organize a resistance, it was clearly the back up plan of the Greens.

    • @tsioulak
      @tsioulak 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Very possible.
      It could also be thet the kid simply expressed the desire to study at the citadel (either becoming a maester or not)

  • @Longshanks1690
    @Longshanks1690 ปีที่แล้ว +71

    I don’t think it’s _necessarily_ oversight from GRRM that Gaemon isn’t mentioned in this earlier section detailing Aegon’s nocturnal activities. I more take it as that these were the only illegitimate children that the court could confirm were actually Aegon’s or that he acknowledged in some fashion. If this were a history of Robert, then Edric Storm and perhaps Mya Stone would be acknowledged here but Gendry and Bella would not, for comparisons sake.
    But what it also does is leaves it ambiguous as to whether there are more possible children that can’t be accounted for, such as Gaemon. His absence from this list also casts doubt on whether he was Aegon’s at all, and further demonises Essie and Sylvenna by letting the reader assume that they were lying about him being Aegon’s son at all simply to take power with their crazy ideas.
    Could it still be an oversight? Possibly, but even as it stands, I think there’s an argument that it overall works with the kind of person Gyldane is and what he’s trying to do with this book.

    • @Meodread
      @Meodread ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I was going to say much the same thing. It's at most one of the lesser plot issues with the tale.

  • @bebos1262
    @bebos1262 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    I never understood why George was so insistent in his worldbuilding that in Westeros having multiple holdings is almost considered a sin or unthinkable. It's such an emphasized detail that one time we hear of Houses having multiple holdings it makes up their entire identity (the Peaks and their three castles). Like George loves to talk about realism and reflecting history, but in this case he threw that out, so instead of having a realistic approach to feudalism where families over hundreds of years would amass great estates and titles, Westeros has ultra feudalism where everyone has a single castle and they can never expand or grow.
    There is no reason why Jace could not inherit Driftmark and then also inherit the Iron Throne and have both titles. That is feudalism 101. Imagine if William the Conqueror was unable to become King of England because he was already Duke of Normandy, its hilarious.

    • @PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin
      @PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin  ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Very true. And George is pretty inconsistent with it on top it:
      Jaime remembered little Robert from King's Landing, still sucking on his mother's teats at four. "Arryn won't live long enough to breed. And why should the Lord of the Eyrie need Riverrun?"
      "Why does a man with one pot of gold need another? Men are greedy"

    • @falsename226
      @falsename226 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I don't see what the problem is. Westeros isn't a carbon copy of European feudalism, there's tons of differences both subtle and major. Why can't this just be one of them?

    • @grimaldus1523
      @grimaldus1523 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@falsename226 It makes the story more boring and it also just doesnt make sense as to why a Lord would be limited to one holding, there is no cultural reason stated as to why they can't, it just seems to be lazy writing on Georges part which makes the world building poorer as a result.

    • @falsename226
      @falsename226 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@grimaldus1523 Whether it's more or less interesting is a matter of opinion, I much prefer the one lord one seat system. And it absolutely makes sense. Its clearly just the established tradition and precedent in Westeros, and like most of that tradition and precedent, it doesn't need to be explained, it's just how the society is. As to whether it's lazy writing, how? It demands more characters doing more things. Like when the River lands are divvied up, River run could have just gone to Walder Frey, Darry to Tywin, but the system demands more.

    • @grimaldus1523
      @grimaldus1523 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@falsename226 it doesnt make sense, the lords are the ones losing out if they cant inherit more land because of some bs tradition. Roose Bolton is in his 50's and he has one idiot son who is going to be killed and none of the other houses around roose can take his lands because muh stupid "1 holding system". It makes no sense and no real life monarch would ever implement such a system because people realize it would be stupid.

  • @pr6717
    @pr6717 ปีที่แล้ว +30

    Just on Jaherys extra digits. Its possible that this happens again with another Targaryen. Another Jaehaerys in fact. Jaehaerys II has his left hand covered in his official artwork (this was specified by GRRM). The only other official artwork we have of Jaehaerys II, the picture of Aegon V with all his sons, Jehaerys left hand looks malformed.

    • @carter9449
      @carter9449 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Grrm also made a point in expressing his disapointment of the show omiting Jaehaerys II, asking HotD to fix it somehow, which indicates he probably has something planned for the character

    • @thekrakensdaughter
      @thekrakensdaughter ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@carter9449amazing, what do you think it means?

    • @Longshanks1690
      @Longshanks1690 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@carter9449 That’s probably not the case and it was just misreported in the media as II when they actually meant he insisted on Jaehaerys I, which makes more sense both with his importance in Targaryen history and reports that George wanted to start the show as early as when Baelon and Aemon were alive.
      Given that the show starts off with his presence at the Great Council, and that it would be near impossible to include Jaehaerys II in a natural and non-contrived way, I think the far more likely explanation is just that the number was misreported and what George actually insisted on was including Jaehaerys I.

  • @Luke-jo4to
    @Luke-jo4to ปีที่แล้ว +22

    This series goes through story slower than my dnd group…I love it!😂

  • @SHARKVADERS
    @SHARKVADERS ปีที่แล้ว +66

    PJ IS BACK FOMOS

    • @JuulJournal
      @JuulJournal ปีที่แล้ว +3

      He’s been uploading constantly for so long. Can’t be back if he never left

    • @SpaztasticSheep
      @SpaztasticSheep ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Yayyy

    • @havewissmart9602
      @havewissmart9602 ปีที่แล้ว

      I read that as homos....

  • @Longshanks1690
    @Longshanks1690 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    I think the only way that the Vaemond situation even begins to make sense is if we assume it was a move made out of desperation. Vaemond, it seems, is very pro-Green and wants the Hightower faction to be in power at court. Or at least it appears that way, his motivations don’t make much sense outside that explanation. So when the marriage between Rhaenyra’s sons and Daemon’s daughters was announced, he realised that there was effectively no way of keeping the Velaryon fleet out of the Black faction in a future war. Thus, losing time and options, he decided to go public with the accusations of bastardry in the hopes that the public pressure would force Viserys to admit “the truth,” proclaim Aegon as his heir and Vaemond as his brother’s heir. Given that the Greens seem very distant from the descriptions of a plot that would obviously be VERY beneficial to them, it seems that even they realised that Vaemond’s scheme was never going to work but Vaemond was too delusional to give the opportunity up before it was too late.
    Does it make a lot of sense? Not really, but fear and desperation to pursue a greater political end are the only reasons I can think of for why Vaemond would try to disinherit his nieces just to advantage himself. Or maybe he’s actually just really selfish and stupid, idk.

  • @hopedixon2133
    @hopedixon2133 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    So you mentioned in previous videos that Aemond/Daemon are Bloodraven/Bittersteel parallels, and I'm guessing that's why Aemond is a proficient swordsman, although it seems very difficult for him with the missing eye. Bloodraven is supposedly not bad with the blade as well even though it's not his weapon of choice, which is hilariously and predictably a weirwood bow. I love Bloodraven, he's such a nerdy weirdo.
    I did just have a thought that perhaps Aemond (and maybe Bloodraven) use their warging/dragonriding abilities to warg into nearby animals during sword fighting situations (ravens, crows, cats... whatever) like Arya does when fighting the Kindly Man. This would help bridge some of the visual gaps for the fighter. I mean, you need natural talent and you need practice to be good so Aemond just may have some natural talent like Arya seemed to in the story.

  • @Mj_Jetson
    @Mj_Jetson ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Perhaps Daeron was sent to Oldtown to shore up the Green's support in the Reach? The Green's realized they couldn't take the Reach's support for granted (after all, Houses Beesbury, Caswell, Costayne, Merryweather, Mullendore, Rowan and Tarly all support Rhaenyra during the Dance) so they figured the sight of Tessarion would make these Houses reconsider? I guess it didn't work too well...

  • @Conradh13
    @Conradh13 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    The son's tongues was probably just because it kinda reads like he's just talking about the cousins, but it is two separate sentences so saying 'every one' makes it unlear as to if he means every one of the cousins or every one of the party that the cousins brought with them.

    • @elkeyes
      @elkeyes ปีที่แล้ว +10

      That's how I read it too - they all went to King's Landing together as a group, but only the cousins petitioned for their claim and got their tongues removed.

  • @Mj_Jetson
    @Mj_Jetson ปีที่แล้ว +4

    With Luke getting Driftmark... I get adopting the Mace Tyrell philosophy of making sure all your kids have a place in the world, but it still feels weird to implement this so late? Presumably, as the Laenor-Rhaenyra match was being negotiated, they would've decided which of the future kids would inherit what and when?
    This kind of arrangement ought to be super common in Dorne, where men and women are equally likely to inherit stuff? Wonder if a large chunk of Dornish Law is to dedicated to ironing out all the "what-if" scenarios: what if the bride or groom's elder sibling dies, and suddenly they're inheriting something after the match was negotiated. Does the order the bride and groom die in matter: does the eldest child inherit first, or does each child inherit their predetermined seat? Is the inheritance split amongst several siblings, or does the eldest kid take it all?

    • @DancingAndDreaming
      @DancingAndDreaming ปีที่แล้ว

      Tbf, they couldn't negotiate that when Rhaenyra and Laenor married. They had no way to know if or how many kids there would be, and the distribution of sexes. If Rhaenyra had only one single son with Laenor, it would be a different situation again. Not to mention: babies die in the cradle all the time.

  • @Sienisota
    @Sienisota ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I think the little girl could be autistic: Not showing emotions when she is supposed to, not tolerating places with lots of people and having a meltdown. Her mother shows autistic traits in the show, and is clearly a dreamer. Perhaps the little girl is too

  • @perjulianlundbergtande8956
    @perjulianlundbergtande8956 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Woohoo! Got so happy seeing this upload, very excited for this series. 10 out 10 work as always

  • @Mj_Jetson
    @Mj_Jetson ปีที่แล้ว +6

    11:25 a little off topic, but how on earth did they get Dark Sister and Vhagar's skull out of the lake after that fight???

    • @hopedixon2133
      @hopedixon2133 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I always wondered that too. It seems to me that only someone actively watching *cough* (Alys Rivers) would even KNOW to look at the bottom of the lake in the first place, let alone WHERE on the lake bed to look. That lake is absolutely massive. It doesn't look natural to the landscape, there's no real mountains nearby to feed it properly so I'm guessing it's either spring fed (by several springs...which means caves also) or man made (but long forgotten). Perhaps Vhagar eventually washed up on shore but seems unlikely. Perhaps a brief drought exposed the skeleton of the giant dragon. While an unlikely finding, it seems probable that whoever found Vhagar and Dark Sister either occupied or was loyal to the ruling house at Harrenhal. It'd be funny if it's just lying around there lost, mere inches from the old shield that Brienne takes to have repainted.

    • @Mj_Jetson
      @Mj_Jetson ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@hopedixon2133 Yeah maybe the bones flow down the river to somewhere shallower, the way stuff flows down from the Trident to the Quiet Isle? The Gods Eye does have weird currents... still, the bones, armor and sword are supposed to be really dense and heavy, and when they crash into the water, you'd think they'd get embedded in the mud at the bottom of the lake. The whole confrontation makes no sense. How is Gyldayn confidently reporting what Daemon and Aemond said, when the only witness who survives the confrontation is Alys Rivers - and I definitely don't see her sitting down for an interview any time soon. There's also a weird gap in the rulership of Harrenhal: Aegon III's regents cancel their plans to retake the castle from Alys in 133, then Harrenhal isn't given to the Strongs until 151 - are we to believe that Alys kept the castle until 151?
      What is GRRM thinking??? Is this just a really lazy plot contrivance, or will he resolve the matter with a retcon? Is he planning to parallel some epic moment in Winds or Dream, and sacrificed F&B realism for the sake of the parallel? Is he planning to have some weird thing happen with the lake that suggests the water currents are supernatural?

  • @AS-fi7hc
    @AS-fi7hc ปีที่แล้ว +4

    3:47 While I do agree it’s probably impossible for a baby to NEVER cry and NEVER smile, it is very possible to have a baby who rarely does those things. I’m one of nine children and when asked to describe what I was like as a baby compared to my siblings my parents have said I was “somber”. Tbh I thought that was a kind of bizarre word to use to describe a baby but it does show some are more expressive than others and we could perhaps assume historians were exaggerating when they said she never cried.
    And there were certainly periods of my life where I was hyper emotional because that’s how human emotion works. They aren’t perfectly “consistent”. I obviously don’t know if GRRM thought these things through though.

  • @croatiawarior
    @croatiawarior ปีที่แล้ว +58

    Wow, kudos to Ryan Condal. The show actually made way more sense with Vaemonds petition. Pity the episode after that sucked.

    • @VMohdude-
      @VMohdude- ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@RealMrGlizzyepisode 9 was good

    • @connorrammler3064
      @connorrammler3064 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      ​@Jotari it made more sense because it was Otto and alicent who were ruling at the time and not viserys

    • @croatiawarior
      @croatiawarior ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@connorrammler3064 Yeah, they would not give Driftmark to Daemons daughter and besides Otto made it clear he does not want a child at the command of the biggest fleet in Westeros.

    • @LaurenceGill2000
      @LaurenceGill2000 ปีที่แล้ว

      Episode 9 did not suck and was not awful. It was merely a bit bad. Still better than like everything from GOT after Season 4

  • @Vidacaangel1318
    @Vidacaangel1318 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Hell ye finally u came out with one ! You got me waiting forever for this video like it’s winds of winter 😅😂❤
    Much love

  • @troperhghar9898
    @troperhghar9898 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    No emotional responses at a young age, unemotional turning to hyper emotional, wetting the bed, needing calming drugs, I think Jayhera is supposed to be somewhere on the autistic spectrum

  • @Kaethanos
    @Kaethanos ปีที่แล้ว +2

    why is King Anduin Wrynn, son of Varian Wrynn, priest of the Holy Light, Lord of Stormwind and Leader of the Alliance, the placeholder for Daeron in 1:53?

  • @explosivtarknas1996
    @explosivtarknas1996 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I mean, in terms of never crying at all, that is certainly weird, but I didn't cry when I was born either. Over the years, I have spoken to a doctor, a nurse, and both my parents, who were all in the room, and every one agrees that I came out completely calmly and it scared them all quite a bit. However, I grew to be an incredibly loud screamer once I was taken home, so long-term, Jaehaera is certainly off if the story is true.

  • @thekrakensdaughter
    @thekrakensdaughter ปีที่แล้ว +3

    the fact that aegon and haelena kids were able to hatch dragons may explain why jaehaera was mysteriously killed later on?

  • @valerionfishscales.2262
    @valerionfishscales.2262 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I always thought Jahareys the first had six digits also.

  • @dee6215
    @dee6215 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    jaehaera (idk if its spelled correctly) is very much autistic coded, i dont think its inconsistent that she was unemotional as a baby but needed sweetsleep to get through social gatherings

  • @Mallerky
    @Mallerky ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Aemond wrecks that Strong Castellan of Harrenhal when the guy wants a trial by combat with him when Aemond's forces are slaughtering the castle, so he at least fights someone there.

    • @spacelia3920
      @spacelia3920 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes, but the fight might not have come down to skill - more Simon probably being in his sixties-ish and therefore not particularly quick and not having fought with a sword for a while

    • @Mallerky
      @Mallerky ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@spacelia3920 its just more excuses at a certain stage I feel. Guy was known to train in the yard at KL for years and years by Criston and we have evidence of him being formidable and winning fights vs. no evidence to the contrary.. feels like a reach to try discredit him as a fighter

  • @psevdhome
    @psevdhome ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Even though Septon Barth investigated dragons very thoroughly, I believe his work would garner additional interest in the subject and would increase the desirability of studying dragons. If war with dragons is brewing in Westeros, all knowledge of dragons and their anatomy would be wanted. Maybe Hightowers wanted their specific maesters to get a look at a living dragon, not just the ones in the Citadel? And isn't it customary to have younger sons create diplomatic relations with other houses? I think Daeron was needed to have active connections to the reach to secure their armies. If this was their concern it was correct, because the Tyrells did not join the fighting. This tells me that without pressure from the Hightowers many other Reach houses might also have sat out the war without participating in it without the pressure of alliance and a dragon on the side of the Hightowers. Just some thoughts.

  • @thekrakensdaughter
    @thekrakensdaughter ปีที่แล้ว +1

    one of the best content creators, thank you for your amazing videos

  • @willmackinnon9397
    @willmackinnon9397 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    And we're back

  • @sebastiannilsson1208
    @sebastiannilsson1208 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    And we’re back!

  • @luckymushroom828
    @luckymushroom828 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I’m wondering how much longer this series is gonna go. You’ve said it’s the lead up to the Dance. But I would absolutely love to hear you analyze Blood and Cheese. It has never made any sense to me. Have you ever talked about it in detail elsewhere if you’re not going to cover it in this series? I need to hear your thoughts lol

    • @DarkMasterofCupcakes
      @DarkMasterofCupcakes ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I agree that Blood and Cheese doesn't really make a lot of sense? Daemon might be considered ruthless, but I don't think he's supposed to be stupid? If the whole "son for a son" thing was meant to be revenge for Luke's death, you'd think it'd be aimed at the person who was actually responsible for his death - Aemond, who didn't have any children at the time, granted. But even still, killing Jaehaerys was not a smart move at all. The kid was six years old and had nothing to do with what happened to Luke outside of being the nephew of the man who had killed him, and in the book, there's no indication that Aemond was close to Aegon and Helaena's children. All killing Jaehaerys did was make it seem like Rhaenyra and Daemon were cruel monsters who'd kill innocent children. Even from a purely pragmatic sense, it'd make more sense to hold the children, and possibly Helaena herself, hostage, rather than kill them.

    • @luckymushroom828
      @luckymushroom828 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@DarkMasterofCupcakes I am pretty sure re the timeline, Blood and Cheese happens and then Daemon goes and takes Harrenhal (and the Riverlands) specifically without bloodshed. So we’re supposed to believe this dude was so mental that he ordered a 6 year old boy beheaded but then turned around and went out of his way to take a key kingdom without killing anyone? Idk it just doesn’t add up to me. The whole thing is off. Like nothing else Daemon did in his life comes close to the horror of blood and cheese and it didn’t really benefit him to do it.

  • @ГригорГанчев
    @ГригорГанчев ปีที่แล้ว +2

    It may be that Jaehaera had traits from an autistic spectrum disorder, which could explain the mood changes. The six fingers of Jaehaerys may not be a recessive trait, but having six fingers is certainly associated with incest in the family, at least in people's notions. So maybe the idea was incest = not a good idea or idk

  • @Mj_Jetson
    @Mj_Jetson ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Corlys was "surrounded by maesters"... several maesters... wonder if that's supposed to hint that Rhaenyra brought Gerardys from Dragonstone? He was supposed to be a great healer, she did the same when Laena was dying, and seems to trust him a lot for most of the Dance... perhaps she didn't really go to Driftmark to press her son's claim; like as Preston said, the succession was already long settled, and neither she nor Corlys nor Viserys considered it to in up for debate in the slightest? Perhaps Gyldayn's trying to make the succession issue more debatable than it was? Then again, that would make the Velaryon relatives into even greater idiots, so idk.

  • @jswagaudio
    @jswagaudio ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I just binged all these in two days. Time to do it again

  • @hopedixon2133
    @hopedixon2133 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Nice catch on the Jaehaera/Adara parallel, I forgot all about that story. I'm unfamiliar with his blog postings but was his comment on The Ice Dragon only to say that the World of Ice and Fire did not exist yet, or did he say definitively that it was a different world... because he'a using his lil GRRM secret "choosing my words like gold coins" kind of talk if that's all he said, it could be the same world. Tricksy little hobbit.

  • @The_Wrath_of_Conn
    @The_Wrath_of_Conn ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Pj is more consistent than George at this point lmao

  • @baerververgaert1308
    @baerververgaert1308 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Vaemond may have petitioned the king because he felt that Viserys would be bound to the succession rules established by the council of 101. If Laenor's sons are bastards, then Laena cannot inherit over Vaemond unless Rhaenys also inherits over Viserys. On paper if the king/council admits Laenor's kids are bastards they must make Vaemond heir unless they also admit hypocrisy which makes the king illegitimate and puts Rhaenys/Laenor in a position to have a claim to the throne. The hand of the king and the king himself are both caught uo in keeping Viserys claim legitimate. Vaemond may have argued that on paper he has the hand of the king on his side and the king will have his hand forced as well. Of course, Viserys already chose to ignore the council in his preferred choice of heir, and it is not specified that succession rules in the royal line applies to all houses. This may have well been a case where Martin tries to tell us that political logic does not determine outcome, moreover that feudal systems were not mechanical or robotic but very much human.

    • @Meodread
      @Meodread ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Solid though still dumb, I mean the Targs have dragons and Vis continue to enforce his female heir (defying the Council of 101 already).

  • @keirangrant1607
    @keirangrant1607 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    In Cusco and still making time to watch your videos. Being so high in the mountains gives you a head rush. The sons were smart enough to hold their tongues, lol

  • @stupidminotaur9735
    @stupidminotaur9735 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Maybe the cousins thought they were gonna marry the sisters? only thing i can think of.

    • @Meodread
      @Meodread ปีที่แล้ว

      A possible option but at the same time it does to the "Why would that happen?" pile. The whole saga would place the House in a weird compromised position and the hand of Baela would be a major tool to forge an alliance with marriage (assuming her marriage is nulled or Jace were to die)

    • @stupidminotaur9735
      @stupidminotaur9735 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Meodread yea either they thought the sisters husband gonna marry someone else or they gonna die. and they marry the sisters.,,, for better alliances if the brothers married other people the eldest would still be the next king, but the 2nd would probably marry a great house so their thought process he'll have to give up his grandfathers seat and marry this greater prize. only thing i can think of.

    • @Meodread
      @Meodread ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@stupidminotaur9735 Good as any theory.
      I simply just think it's a poor bit of writing from a generally great author.
      There isn't really a way to make it fit without some level of stupidity.
      In Veamon's case, he's accusing a Princess with a Dragon, an ill temper (to a degree) and a psychotic husband with more than a small amount of impulsive danger of having bastards. Like in what world does that have a good ending?
      In his family's case, they are presenting the same claims to said Princess' father. At best using the Council of 101 to leap frog female heirs (something that is being ignored for the Iron Throne itself) or using marriage with poor politic upside. And said King as said in the past "Tongue will get cut".
      And the kicker is it's not like this whole side story DOES anything for the overall story. Take it away and the Dance still happens. Everything else still fits.

  • @lasttoparty7570
    @lasttoparty7570 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    The feeding of Vaemond's body to Syrax may be logistically unsound, but I think that the text is trying for symbolism. Rhaenyra probably feels that as a Valyrian dragonrider, she is superior to the ordinary people of Westeros, and so she is outside and above the Westerosi traditions that dictate that sons come before daughters in succession. In a sense, Syrax is the living reminder of Rhaenyra's superior "blood of the dragon" that justifies her exceptional claim to the throne.
    It's possible that Vaemond's five cousins were motivated by pride, if they felt that the reputation of House Velaryon would suffer with a bastard taking the lord's seat at High Tide.

  • @WhoIsCalli
    @WhoIsCalli ปีที่แล้ว

    Great stuff. Thanks Preston

  • @ivandankob7112
    @ivandankob7112 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Back we and are

  • @JoniukasVader
    @JoniukasVader ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Back are we and

  • @theletterm5425
    @theletterm5425 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I have no tongue, and I must plea for Driftmark

  • @erikaheck8261
    @erikaheck8261 ปีที่แล้ว

    Been WAITING for this!

  • @phantomjoker5
    @phantomjoker5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    we back

  • @Mj_Jetson
    @Mj_Jetson ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Is it odd that Rhaenyra is at Corlys' side, urging him to name Luke his heir in place of Jace, then suddenly she'd back at Dragonstone, sending Daemon to kill Vaemond and fetch his body to her? I guess Corlys is sick for a long enough time for all this travel to happen? How does this timeline work??? Rhaenyra makes her petition, then is confident that she's made her case well enough to go home... Vaemond wasn't making enough of a fuss when she was there for her to decide to kill him (I guess she rode Syrax to Driftmark, and the pet nuke dissuaded everyone from openly opposing Rhaenyra), then she flied home. Vaemond makes his claim, word reaches Rhaenyra, and instead of flying back to Driftmark, or accompanying Daemon on Syrax, she sends Daemon to kill Vaemond and fetch her the body... why? Did she think her life would be in danger, a la Rhaenys' father Aemon, if she returned to Driftmark in person, but was willing to risk Daemon?

    • @talrasha1985
      @talrasha1985 ปีที่แล้ว

      i think, Daemon was with Rhaenyra, whe she urged Corlys to name Luke his heir in place of Jace, and right at the moment Vaemond was beheaded.

  • @sixthjayhawk
    @sixthjayhawk ปีที่แล้ว +14

    I wonder if HOTD will make the twins Aemond’s bastards. We’ve had multiple references to Aemond and Helaena having some weird chemistry.

    • @berserk4souls
      @berserk4souls ปีที่แล้ว +4

      So it would just be Jamie and Cersi 2.0 again? Predictable and bland.

    • @heartlesslove9084
      @heartlesslove9084 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Helaena won't face any consequences with that they are all siblings with white hair and purple eyes. Idk it does not add any interest to plotline unless they want another aemon/naerys.

    • @spacelia3920
      @spacelia3920 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@heartlesslove9084It might not impact the story in anyway, but it might be done to draw a parallel between the blacks and the greens and show the green’s hypocrisy once again. As much as they will point the fingers to Rhaenyra and claim she’s unfit to rule because she presents her children as true born when they aren’t, the green’s own queen does the same and they will cover it up no matter what, and still call Rhaenyra a w**re and present themselves as the most virtuous there is

  • @janpol466
    @janpol466 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Long time, no see.

  • @nohashtagshere4116
    @nohashtagshere4116 ปีที่แล้ว

    And we are finally back !!!

  • @johnlavery3433
    @johnlavery3433 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Correct me I’m in wrong but didn’t Gaemon’s mother confess (or Orwyl said she confessed) that his father was a Lyseni Oarsman?

    • @Longshanks1690
      @Longshanks1690 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Under torture. Hardly the most reliable circumstances for extracting true information, especially when the torturers want you to give one specific answer.

    • @johnlavery3433
      @johnlavery3433 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hence why I said the orwyl part, remember all we have are very biased sources@@Longshanks1690

  • @DontBotherMate
    @DontBotherMate ปีที่แล้ว +1

    AND WE ARE BACK!!!!!

  • @adityaagarwal6640
    @adityaagarwal6640 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    dont think we need a reason for why viserys agreed to send daeron to oldtown, fostering is a normal thing and as a third son daeron's not super politically valuable.

  • @mattkeflowers
    @mattkeflowers 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    A thought on the theoretical inconsistency in Jaheira's emotionality can be explained by her being autistic. I'm autistic myself and my parents noted that I hardly ever cried, I'm not given to excessive smiling, etc. But in times of high stress or big upheavals, I can experience meltdowns where I can be seen as being hyper-emotional.
    Just a thought.

  • @EdgedShadow
    @EdgedShadow ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Anduin Wrynn as Prince Daeron, nice.

  • @lednus
    @lednus ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Aegon III X gene is from Hightower stock. Maybe I'm too foccused on basic genetics but I don't see how Jaehaera could have 2 targ X genes to hatch eggs.

    • @alanpennie8013
      @alanpennie8013 ปีที่แล้ว

      It's definitely a problem for the Dragon X theory.

    • @neyragrat
      @neyragrat 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      orrrrrr, orrrrr..... hear me out, Alicent is Saera's daughter

  • @vondas1480
    @vondas1480 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Are you ever going cover the sons of the dragon book like this? After all this Hightower chicanery hearing Maegor’s the bold’s exploits is a great palette cleanser

  • @nicksherman5702
    @nicksherman5702 ปีที่แล้ว

    Understand this Presto, it is never a good place to stop

  • @AlexD19931
    @AlexD19931 ปีที่แล้ว

    Did... did you use art of Anduin Wrynn from WoW for Daeron?

  • @YarPirates-vy7iv
    @YarPirates-vy7iv ปีที่แล้ว +1

    And are we back?

  • @davidgretzschelcommunicati1630
    @davidgretzschelcommunicati1630 ปีที่แล้ว

    20:39 🔪👅 ➡📝They reaffirmed their claim in writing.

  • @VivanLaMNWA
    @VivanLaMNWA ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This series is still happening?

  • @sammysterling
    @sammysterling ปีที่แล้ว

    no that is not how lordship works if one of the kids is heir to the thrones, because as the hier he's the lord of dragonstone, when corlys dies lucerys becomes the lord of Driftmark, if rhaenyra has not ascended by then, jace will be just a prince, till she ascends, then jace becomes the lord of dragonstone
    driftmark will not go to him in this case, because as the eldest and the Targaryen hier to the throne when he's second he becomes prince of dragonstone.

  • @borisdorofeev5602
    @borisdorofeev5602 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Are and back we

  • @The1whocould
    @The1whocould ปีที่แล้ว

    THANK YOUUUUU

  • @tsioulak
    @tsioulak ปีที่แล้ว

    Vaemond's situation is simillar (but not identical) to the situation of the great council of 101, so maybe he tried to pull a Viserys?

  • @josiahcmiller
    @josiahcmiller ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Six toes on both feet. But six fingers on only the left hand. Strange. Why not the right.

  • @SamButler22
    @SamButler22 ปีที่แล้ว

    So... how many parts can we expect?

  • @robertfaucher3750
    @robertfaucher3750 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yo a reference to the 6 fingered man from the princess bride!!

  • @cantutmez8854
    @cantutmez8854 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I've found it weird that the "sex pest" Aegon has only one (kind of) confirmed bastard.

    • @the_ultracheese67
      @the_ultracheese67 ปีที่แล้ว

      All his girls were on the pill

    • @spacelia3920
      @spacelia3920 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That’s one more than the “sex pest” Daemon had

  • @tarlochansingh620
    @tarlochansingh620 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think when Preston finishes this series, I'll write a novel baaed on his theories. But I can't write so I don't know.

  • @stevecavalle
    @stevecavalle ปีที่แล้ว +1

    An we are back with...

  • @georgiosgiannakaras8536
    @georgiosgiannakaras8536 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've watched through all the videos of overanalysing the house of the dragon. The assumption is that from the Citadel they don't want dragons in Westeros and therefore they do whatever they can so that the throne doesn't pass to someone or someone's heir who has the ability to clatch dragon eggs. But in the case of the greens we see that Aegon and his children clatch dragon eggs, he himself rides a dragon, his wife Helaena has a dragon, his siblings Aemond and Daeron have dragons, so I think you get the point .... If the Citadel conspiracy theory about the dragons is correct why do they do whatever they can to put on the throne Aegon and start the war? The outcome of this war we know that at the very end not that many dragons survive and none is in possession of a Targaryen ruler but the outcome could have also been that the greens and their dragons survived the clash or the other way around the blacks and their dragons survived the clash which would mean that there still would be Targaryens with dragons in Westeros whichever side won the war

    • @neyragrat
      @neyragrat 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The war was the actual motive for the maesters. Have as many dragons as possible die. This is how I make of it in my head
      1. Aemon's wife Jocelyn was prevented from having any other children after Rhaenys, a daughter.
      2. Aemon is killed by "Myrish crossbow". Succession becomes muddy and Jaehaerys chooses Baelon
      3. Baelon is killed by burst belly. Succession becomes even more muddy.
      If there was no great council, Rhaenys/Corlys vs Viserys/Daemon would have been the civil war at that time. Caraxes and Meleys and by extension Daemon Rhaenys could die.
      Council of 101 happens and Viserys is named heir; (assuming they have established a precedent in 101)
      4. They fuck with Aemma's fertility so only her one daughter survive.
      5. Have Daemon set aside as heir (breaking the precedent they set in 101)
      6. Rhaenyra named heir
      7. Runciter convinces Viserys to marry Alicent and have children. (sons)
      When dance comes, they enforce the precedent set in 101 which they broke soon after, claiming Aegon as legimitate king.
      Dance is guaranteed and afterwards Targaryen reign is much distabalised

    • @georgiosgiannakaras8536
      @georgiosgiannakaras8536 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@neyragrat Thanks for the reply. Based on all the content that Preston has shared the whole maester conspiracy is based on the dragon elimination - no throne heirs who are able to clatch dragon eggs. War was perhaps the mean to achieve their goal and finally the war breaks out between the Targaryens . Wouldn't it be better though and less destructive for the whole Westeros if instead of having the Council of 101 they started already the war between Rhaenys/Corlys and Viserys/Daemon. Back then there weren't that many dragons. Furthermore the council kind of settled things and the war was avoided.

  • @uponthepotato2532
    @uponthepotato2532 ปีที่แล้ว

    On aemond having one eye and therefore it being harder to fight Michael bisping only had one working eye when fighting in the UFC

  • @cjordn
    @cjordn ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Rhaena Targaryen was a hatcher too.

  • @AlexKwiatek
    @AlexKwiatek 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    But Baela and Rhaena aren't pressing their claims. So if they don't want to be ladies of Driftmark, why random 5th cousin (Luke) would be the heir instead of a person who is next in line (Vaemond)? When you reject your inheritance, you aren't in the position to point the random person who would get the inheritance. It goes further in the line.
    Vaemond was furthest person in the line of Succession that didn't capitulated about the issue. And the fact that all his cousins supported his bid, means nothing less than the fact that most of the house Velaryon was in agreement - house Velaryon needs to be protected from losing Driftmark to house Targaryen. Even Corlys who we generally think was comfortable with the loss of Driftmark to Rhaenyra's children, jumped at the first opportunity to make his own kid his heir.

  • @GreenDayFanMT
    @GreenDayFanMT ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Ahm actually, 8:45 you mean Mealor's 'time on planetos', since earth is our planet ; ). I know, a cringe comment.

  • @tomkrajewski6209
    @tomkrajewski6209 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    0:30
    Preston: “the alliance of the Blacks is STRONG”
    Me: I understood that reference😎

  • @multimediafan6777
    @multimediafan6777 ปีที่แล้ว

    These videos are so enlightening🤌

  • @melly2094
    @melly2094 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    "The alliance of the blacks is STRONG" (STRONG emphasis on the STRONG). Preston, are you doing wordplay here on purpose? Daemon may have something to say on the matter...

    • @alanpennie8013
      @alanpennie8013 ปีที่แล้ว

      It's hard to avoid these puns.
      It's just as bad as all the ones about The Others.

  • @LRCh_
    @LRCh_ 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    *Maelor's three years on Planetos

  • @yugrise1286
    @yugrise1286 ปีที่แล้ว

    i thought he gonna ditch over analyzing HOTD

  • @MrFirextinguisher
    @MrFirextinguisher ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I’ll give you a messy maester situation ;)

  • @lukacvitkovic8550
    @lukacvitkovic8550 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    There's enough livestock in the Reach and enough money in Oldtowns' coffers both from trade and taxes to host a FLEET of dragons

    • @Kai555100
      @Kai555100 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Like rhe Hightpwers are said in Feast said to be as rich as the Lannisters (probably just a common phrase but still they are described as very rich)

    • @Meodread
      @Meodread ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I think the issue would be more housing/dealing with the Dragon behavior rather than food. Targaryan seats (King's Landing, Dragonstone and I assume Summerhall) all have Dragon specific facilities and the Dragon Handlers so that would more be the issue of fostering a child with a Dragon.

    • @Longshanks1690
      @Longshanks1690 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Meodread Summerhall was built post-Dance in the reign of Daeron II, so not likely unless they included them in the designs just in case lol.
      And since Driftmark or High Tide aren’t mentioned as having facilities for dragons either even though Meleys, Vhagar and Seasmoke were housed there - and presumably Syrax and Caraxes when Rhaenyra and Daemon were staying there too - it wouldn’t really be an explanation for why Oldtown couldn’t hold Tessarion, a baby by comparison, on his own.
      If the Velaryons were capable of adapting to these changes, the Hightowers certainly were too.

    • @Meodread
      @Meodread ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Longshanks1690 Fair points but the Hightower is literally is in Oldtown, the largest population center (or second largest) so creating even a temporary housing that could hold a growing dragon seems difficult.
      Like Driftmark is a sizeable island with a lot of kind of useless space you could use to create a temporary yet convenient Dragon enclosure.
      I don't think Dareon's time in Old Town is honestly a big issue logistically (more just a why question for Viserys because he's a well behaved kid that probably is actually useful at court as the one Son the Grandsons MIGHT have gotten along with and I assume Vis was trying to avoid a civil war though I suppose that is questionable) but The Hightower does seem to be a someone unique bad place to house a dragon compared to most other seats.

    • @Longshanks1690
      @Longshanks1690 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Meodread The Dragonpit, while it took a while to build, was waiting to house three of the largest dragons ever built _inside_ the city itself. Meanwhile it’s plausible that Tessarion could have been kept at the Hightower itself since it is literally on an island separated from the mainland. Even Driftmark, by comparison, shares an island with Spicetown, yet they seem to have managed multiple dragons over the years. Especially given that Tessarion was a baby, the risks are minimal especially compared with Aegon-Jaehaerys’ efforts to complete the Dragonpit, which they seemingly accomplished with minimal impact on the population of King’s Landing. The most damage the Dragonpit did from what were told is to the King’s coffers, not his subjects. So if Balerion and Vhagar could be managed, Tessarion could be much more so.
      Honestly the more one pries into this, it just seems like a huge blank spot in George’s attention and he didn’t nearly give enough credit to how troublesome and impossible it would be to keep several adult dragons in one location with no risk to the surrounding population. It just would not be as easy as he makes it sound.
      The real reason Daeron was sent away is because George wanted a western theatre of war with a dragon riding Prince making things difficult for the Blacks in the West. Cos yeah, there is literally no reason why you would send your youngest son away at a time like this. Aemond would be the better candidate to lead from the west, not Daeron, especially since Aemond’s presence causes trouble at court while Daeron has no reason to be at odds with his nephews. Since he was the more courteous and gentle, he seems the ideal candidate to send to Storm’s End, no? It just seems like a way of forcing the plot to happen in the way George wants it to, rather than anything that would happen naturally.

  • @Scylithen
    @Scylithen ปีที่แล้ว +1

    He's back, right after GildusXAltShiftX stream
    I smell an AltSwchiftX video or stream in the works, that bastard can't keep getting away with it! 🤪🤣

  • @NunoMontenegro
    @NunoMontenegro ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Finally!!!!! 🎉🎉🎉

  • @Mprator
    @Mprator ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Terrible place to stop, Preston.

  • @kdjr3062
    @kdjr3062 ปีที่แล้ว

    If u can successfully argue that succession isn’t materlinal and rheynras children are bastard then the driftwood throne would pass to the eldest male descendants

  • @bradwolf07
    @bradwolf07 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I like the theory that Aemond was the actual father of Aegon's children with their sister. Aemond, i originally disliked the character, but I've come around and find him more fascinating now.
    Edit ' Aemond may have succeeded as a Sword Fighter in PROPAGANDA...get himself a reputation so people didn't actually challenge him. A bluff is my guess essentially

  • @alialmuhanna4938
    @alialmuhanna4938 ปีที่แล้ว

    You sneaky son of a gun !

  • @Liberater4589
    @Liberater4589 ปีที่แล้ว

    I’m real life babies can also not cry, in fact I myself as a baby never cried so this isn’t just a George thing

  • @heat0252
    @heat0252 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Heirs don’t secure anything honestly

  • @stephaniec9539
    @stephaniec9539 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yay

  • @Jeffsterpal
    @Jeffsterpal ปีที่แล้ว

    LET’S GOOOOOOOOO ❤️‍🔥

  • @anthastoned
    @anthastoned ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Let’s gooooo

  • @tempertempernow
    @tempertempernow ปีที่แล้ว

    Finallllyyyyyyy

  • @knivesmillions2913
    @knivesmillions2913 ปีที่แล้ว

    Given that show favors the black faction heavily I feel like George is trying to retcon a lot of his own lore. For instance I've heard that the 'blood & cheese' incident will likely an accident instead of deliberate act of revenge as it was established. If that's the case I wonder if they'll continue to absolve rhaemerya of any culpability in the many atrocities the blacks commit. For example the blockade of Kings Landing which causes a famine killing hundreds if not thousands of small folk or Rhaenerya sending Rhaeneys to an ambush.

  • @profoundpronoun4712
    @profoundpronoun4712 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeessssssss!!!