All I have to say is Ermes. He went from struggling pulling against wild horse to beating Dave Chaffee because of PEDs. That’s not a little gain. That’s a big jump
he lost because he was not experienced enough in the WAL. The rules are very different from the WAF, and in a match between two top rollers with similar strength, experience makes all the difference.
I know exactly why Brzenk underplays PED's and its because he's basing it on his own experience and since he started taking them at age 41 he would have seen much less of a response to them in terms of gaining mass and power as somebody who started taking them in their 20's. Although starting PED's at age 41 has its downside it also has an upside that Brzenk is taking advantage of. By starting at age 41 its allowing him to extend his career, its not a coincidence he's 58 years old and still elite on the world stage.
Yeah, he's underselling it. PEDs will without a doubt make you a much better armwrestler. There's a variety of things these guys take and it's not just the increased mass that helps, their strength increases way above natural limits as well. Powerlifters who compete in weight classes still manage to take anabolics and keep their weigh within range. And as you alluded to, pretty safe bet that if Brenzk stopped taking TRT, he wouldn't be able to compete at the level he is right now. The man is a legend, but he's wrong on this one.
Besides genetics, quality of the PEDs, what type(s) you are taking, dosage and even how you are cycling them also matter very much. Someone who is only on TRT prescribed, won't see as much difference as someone who is cycling through various quality European manufactured PEDs and knows what they are doing
The single best, unarguable example of how much steroids help is Levan. The man is amazing and genetically gifted in the fact that his frame can support that growth, and hyper responds to steroids. But the fact still remains that he didn't become as dominant until he upped his doses and calories and grew over 320+ pounds. Now he has become untouchable. Size and steroids 100% matter greatly, if you have the genetics to respond properly. Edit: I'm not taking anything away from Levan. He's technically amazing and genetically blessed, but he wouldn't be what he is if steroids didn't matter.
I mean, if you want to compete with the elites especially in Super Heavyweight thats what you have to do. Take a look at the eastern side this weekend and also west. There are just a few left who doesnt take it.
@@quintessence1343 another example of different individual responses. Devon only gained 6 - 8 pounds on his cycle for Levan. But also he has to be a bit more careful due to prior DVT too, I think. Could be more hazardous to push the dosages for him since he's already been prone to blood clots.
I was arms reach at a UAL event when John beat Mike Todd and spoke of retirement… he said… and I quote…” if I keep doing what it takes to be at this level it’s gonna kill me”.. as a guy with my thoughts, this stuck with me. So if it is only a measly percentage why Fisk “killing “ yourself. These conversations are never honest by users because fear credit goes to compound and not ability… but that’s just. It’s way more impactful than they admit. INCREDIBLE GAINS… just look at bodybuilding pre 50s and now… same difference.
It does make a huge difference if you're already technically sound and have a decent build with above average genetics. Plus some people like Levan are hyper responders and gain crazy amount of size and strength. But as John said, it comes at a cost as the quality of life you lead outside arm wrestling wouldn't be very good.
Yes it all depends on the situation From the interview you can tell John doesn't really know anything about different compounds and what they would really do for performance so I'm just guessing hes on like test only really
@@rjharrold2907 yeah Brzenk ain't really even juicing compared to what lots of these guys are doing! He's honestly taking what lots of older guys take that don't compete in anything
Hyper,hyper i hear this a lot these days. The noobs dont know it any better. HGH boys.......look for example denis hands when he was still young. Completely normal handy. Now look at them, mutated! And dont even look at his face...dont wanna knkw what hormones they take on the east part and russia.....dangerous stuff! Thats for sure.
He’s playing a fool. He’s been in Armwrestling for almost 40 years talking to every top guy ever and he’s pretending to not know anything about steroids. That’s absolutely ridiculous
You can tell John doesn't really know much about PEDs and he's probably been natural for years and maybe TRT now. You'd need someone to talk like Levan, maybe Chaffee, cyplenkov or Ermes etc. But for sure a few months on tren or 500mg test your side pressure should evolve even higher while not necessarily gaining weight if your calories are in check.
he jumped on gear after losing to Voevoda Hence what is widely considered as his prime started the year after. I believe I’ve heard him saying so actually
Why you point out those names? You could just say every top 20 guys pretty much knows about those even john himself. Its just who is going to be most open about it. John is a old man and he needs to juice more to keep up with the young ones. Devon pushing 50 his dick wont even get hard without it. They all know pretty damn well about peds trust me.
I don't care what physical sport you play, PEDs will have a significant impact on your performance. Arm wrestling is no different. I don't know if John was playing dumb or just totally naive.
PEDs don’t just give you mass, different substances can improve strength, reduce recovery time, reduce fat, improve stamina, and improve the psychological sense of one’s own strength. I think John knows this but has a hard time accepting it because he was so dominant as a natty and even now is only on TRT afaik. To him, it helps maintain more than gain. But for others, it’s like night and day. Prudnik is another good example. After a cycle, he he’s a different man. Voevoda is another example. If you took PEDs away from these guys, they would not be the same, not even close.
PEDs can completely overhaul an athlete and bring them to a new level. Just look at MMA. Guys like Vitor Belfort became absolute monsters on TRT. As soon as they banned TRT he came back a shell of himself.
No point of crying about Peds and cycle sizes. They all take it and its fair game for all of them. Older guys are taking high dose just to stay strong. I mean most of these dudes wont even have hard dick without it.
@@neverstoppulling5169 Saying it's not about muscle strength is beyond stupid. Look at before and after pics of Levan. Tell me now that PEDs don't help. He's the most dominant arm wrestler on the planet and it's all because he juices. No denying he's a genetic freak to be able to even handle the level of PEDs he's on but to act as if muscles don't help is wild. Go tell that to Devon who had to juice to his limits to even face Levon because of his sheer strength. Arm wrestling is about ALL strength period. You can have amazing tendons, bones, joints etc. but if you don't have muscle mass to move those parts and out muscle your opponents you will never reach the top. By your logic a lightweight could take on Levon and win. Use your brain.
@@yannickcolot2319 oh yeah I know. Everyone is on gear including Brzenk! I was just disagreeing with John. John says the gear only helps a little bit. But I would say that gear has helped the individuals I listed tremendously.
@@metaphoria3Griffey Jr. was on steroids lol. He got huge and his head got way bigger part way through his career. You mean the Ken Griffey Sr. league.
@ Lots of players who were not implicated did indeed take steroids (some have admitted it since). And as far as him not being “suspected” of steroids, that’s your own opinion. I DO suspect there is a very high chance he took them. If you look at his stats by year, his batting averages stayed pretty consistent throughout his career but between the years 1992 & 1993, or his 4th and 5th years, his HR numbers jumped from low 20s to 40s and 50s every year except the one he was injured. If his batting average also jumped during that time, I’d believe that something just clicked for him. But he was getting hits at the same rate, the balls just suddenly started traveling a LOT farther. The steroid era really started in 1993-1994, so his homeruns jumped up dramatically at about the same time the other steroid users’ homerun numbers did. Obviously it’s possible that all of these things are coincidences, but I find that HIGHLY unlikely.
@@txblades1i love all you steroid accusing freaks. You think everyone takes them because either your genetics suck which is a small, small, very small percentage of people, or you were a crackbaby which is not your fault, or you dont have the discipline to get strong. Most people that take steroids have no business getting on them because they never reached the natural peak.
Lol, "not that much different than what they were"? Look at ermes, levan ect. Steroids make a huge difference. For example ermes. He lost horribly to matt mask and now he just destroyed chaffee 3-0 after bulking to nearly 300 pounds from steroids. That's a huge difference. Lol, look at morozov also. The dude is only 24 and gained that much mass and strength already.
I think John is just being humble and nice about it. But also I think that John would probably say that a natural 200 lb guy vs enhanced 200 lb guy wouldnt be too different from each other (i.e equalize for weight)
@@wesleyb1458 John is roided to the gills, has been since he lost to Voevoda. He bulked up a lot around 2005-2006. He's just lying here to preserve his legacy.
@@OneDerscoreOneder John is roided to the gills, has been since he lost to Voevoda. He bulked up a lot around 2005-2006. He's just lying here to preserve his legacy.
Just look at Ermes, he's gained over 40 kilos in like 2 years. You can see he's going the Denis Path. Hopefully he doesn't end in the hospital as well.
I don’t think his frame can support the size of Levan. Denis at 140 was much leaner then Ermes at 130. Same with Morozov, he has abs while weighing 130-135.
@@yannickcolot2319 Obviously I don't know their actual bodyfat numbers but Ermes looks more bloated and not as defined compared to peak Denis. Even their faces are quite different, Denis had a fairly chiseled face whereas Ermes looks like a balloon about to pop. Don't get me wrong, Ermes is a fucking beast and he is prob #2 currently but I think he's very close to his ceiling whereas guys like Artem can surpass that both because he's younger and has a larger frame to pack on more functional weight.
I seriously doubt that Denis and Levan would have become what they are, without steroids. I think John is missing the fact that some substances can also alter your bone structure, in addition to increasing muscle mass.
There is nothing that can change your bone structure or tendon attachments. You can gain strength and size from the drugs but only if you're training and eating. Because of the amount of red blood cells going up and greater availability of n.o in the blood you get better pumps good for bodybuilding not for armwrestling. Some people are just made out of somthing else and they super respond to gear but truly that is not the norm.
I guarantee you Denis would be a nobody without roids, he was good but still not elite before the juice. He is a huge responder just like Levan is. Not hating, just facts
There is no competetive armwrestler that is not taking steroids. For example in WAF where anti doping is a thing, starting at 55 kg to 110+ in every single weith class almost all favorite guys are on peds, imagine in every weight class u have to face : gifted genetics mixed with years of work and tons of roids. does not matter how gifted and dedicated u are, without tanking as much peds as them u are not winning against them.
It's not just about the moment you compete, it also affects the training capabilities and limits. No physical sport should allow steroids users mixed with natural athletes. There should be an EVERYTHING ALLOWED cathegory and a NATURAL cathegory, both being as transparent as possible
Absolutely man, that would be fantastic but I fear itl never ever happen sadly, and unlike this trans bs what you said actually makes 1000 percent perfect sense man!.
If the sport can add lighter weight classes and build up the interest in smaller guys, steroids/GH will be less important. That's already happening with the separation between the heavyweights and superheavies. We tuned in to see if Devon could rise to challenge Levan, but we're looking forward to seeing more matches at 253 or 265, etc. As new athletes arrive on the scene, we may look forward more to a 155lb championship than a Levan match. I think it will track the growth of the UFC which started with no weight classes and gradually added classes down to 125 lbs.
I think maybe what John is getting at is it won't help a ton because with that strength gain comes a lot more weight so you have to go up against bigger guys now.
Edit- Pradeep says the same thing at 4:20. Hadn't finished the video yet. And I agree that if you're a non weight class guy it will be much more advantageous. That's why all the big guys are all on steroids if they are at the top.
This is a great example of someone who should stay in the lane of expertise To say steroids won’t help or to say they only help 10% He’s either insecure about his own usage after 44 or truly has no idea about how steroids affect the body Just because there are people who use them and don’t get results you’d expect doesn’t mean they don’t help
Yeah this is pure bullshit and I think John knows it. The strength component is arguably the biggest part of arm wrestling especially at a pro level and anabolics help massively. Banding about figures like 2 or 4% is either ignorant or just totally dishonest.
I wouldn't expect John to be an expert in steroids, however, he is right in saying steroids wont help if there is no foundation. John was natural pretty much his whole career, built an excellent foundation, then only looked into TRT when old age became a bigger factor. He wanted to maintain what he had and in doing so it allowed him to extend his dominance well beyond most other arm wrestlers while staying healthy. I doubt you will see the likes of Levan or Ermes still at the top in the next 10 years let alone in their 60's because of health issues they'll have to combat from all the hardcore steroids.
100% look at Larry Wheels or strongmen. They’re some of the strongest people in the world and yet they can’t compete on the same level with other armwrestlers with years of training under their belt. Fundamentals are key as well as specific training to strengthen tendons/ligaments.
Can we appreciate the growth of Pradeep as a figure in the sport great content and very brave to tell the Goat that you disagree on some point hats off my friend
The fact that results in sports would be different if over-eating, training, and taking steroids would all somehow be banned and prevented is proof that over-eating, training and taking steroids just destroys the spirit of sports
They help DRAMATICALLY ! lol it’s a huge benefit ! Dennis, levan, and all the other hulks went on gear for years and years ! They pushed their bodies beyond what they could do without juice. Of course without juice u can be a great arm wrestler but when you are in the elite level of arm wrestling, 1 percent can be the difference between winning and losing ! Steriods will help anyone in any sport by at least 20-30 percent of whatever u could do before ! It’s a very very beneficial thing. Guys are using 3000mg a week at the top level some more some less. And they are using HGH. This is jet fuel for arm wrestlers !
Lot of torn biceps happen. Muscles get stronger faster, but your tendons don't, they take a lot longer. So with all the force and different direction of movement when armwrestling. Tears can happen easily.
John as great he is isnt really educated enough on PEDs to give a good answer. The best thing you get is that you recover 2-3x faster which means you can train 2-3x more. its a HUGE difference. plus you gain strength advantage aswell.
@@terminator8767 John is roided to the gills, has been since he lost to Voevoda. He bulked up a lot around 2005-2006. He's just lying here to preserve his legacy.
When you are 50lbs heavier with 25lbs of that being muscle it is a big difference especially in the super heavy weight class. He might have been a great arm wrestler but he is either not very intelligent or just playing it down. In regards to staying in your current weight class, think about it you drop 5% bodyfat weight and replacie that with 5% muscle weight that 's a huge advantage and not hard to do on steroids.
all due respect to John..... Levan is prime example of what they do.... people might say Denis ... but that not true since Denis was taking them before he started arm-wrestling as he was professional strongman before he started doing arm-wrestling.
They all use steroids (at the elite level and even way below probably). It makes a huge difference but steroids don’t make a good armwrestler, it takes a lot of dedication and also genetics. That said nobody could ever reach the elite without PDs, but 95% (or more) of people couldn’t reach the elite even with all steroids in the world
I gotta say, I respect John’s opinion more than any other person in their respective sport, but as a former juice head myself (did multiple cycles in my 20s), the strength gains are MASSIVE. At the top levels, of course, more steroids aren’t going to necessarily make you start winning...BUT earlier in your career, you can absolutely skyrocket your progress miles and miles ahead of where you would be otherwise.
Hey, I have a different opinion. I think he’s underplaying them just because he is being humble and doesn’t want to risk trash talking anyone else’s achievements. Its just more classy to avoid putting emphasis on steroids.
It definitely makes a huge difference. Growing up in sports, some friends and people that I know admitted that they used them. They made gains so fast that it was mind blowing. I like John but, if they don't make much difference why did he start taking them at 44 and why want he stop. I prefer to watch natural athletes. I do not care if they do not look and perform like marvel characters.
trt is a different ball game tho, having the same normal levels you had at age 25-35 when you go into your later stages of life really makes a difference in terms of fighting the atrophy of old age and diminshed testo levels. most of all, your wounds and aches heals normally. i just look at the old men in my family, the ones that are not on TRT has problem healing just a small wound...sometimes takes many months for them, but the ones that are on TRT heal more normally like a few days or weeks like when they where in their 30s.
Everyone at an elite level in any physical sport is on performance enhancements. They create this idea that people are "drug tested" and that it means something. It doesn't mean anything at all.
I am a regenerative doctor and PED do increase not only the strength of muscles but they increase the strength of tendons and ligaments and the repair of tendons and ligaments. They basically enhance the natural repair process that the body innately has. The interosseous attachments of a tendon to a bone or a ligament to a Bone are also strengthened. This is very applicable with elbow injuries in arm wrestling. You can repair those injuries with PRP and regenerative growth factors tantamount to stem cells, but if you want to increase the overall constant general repair process of muscles, tendons and ligaments then taking PED’s would do that.
Pretty sure you take someone like Chaffee and put him on a massive HGH plan you’d get another Levan. The repercussions would be irreparable health wise, but you’d be the best for a period of time.
*John is roided to the gills, has been since he lost to Voevoda.* *He bulked up a lot around 2005-2006.* *He's just lying here to preserve his legacy.*
And here I've just been using creatine and 200g of protein a day,lol . Every workout for past 6 months I go up 1 to 2 reps each time on almost every exercise, others it takes 2 or 3 workouts to go up a rep or so. But making great gains without PEDs and I'm 41 and workout my whole life in one form or another.
@@souldesire5932 maybe, but I'm 6,2 235lbs and cycle off creatine and train almost every day for 2 hours. So the protein gets used up but yes have to be careful with the kidneys,liver,and heart. Also every 60days I take a whole week off/7days to rest and reset my body.
Well i guess in the competitive world of sports, you've got to do all this supplement to stay up there. But everyone still needs to work in their craft and follow the general consensus in the industry.
The unfortunate reality of steroids being illegal. What should be a very nuanced conversation about relative gains versus drawbacks is completely lacking any real information because the people talking about them know practically nothing about them and their effects.
This was the most ignorant comment every mouthed by John in regards to armwrestling. John couldn't be any farther from ignorant so I have to believe that he is "protecting" the top of the pecking order, which is actually admirable. The best possible example of how steroids can catapult a professional's career is Barry Bonds. He was as talented as anyone in baseball but he just didn't have the strength/power to drive the ball at a historic rate. Anyone that has ever played baseball on any level knows that to hit homeruns consistently you have to have power. ALL the power comes from your glutes and quads, you know, the two largest muscle groups in the body. If you already possess the eye-hand coordination to effectively make contact with major league pitching, just think what you can do with new found muscle mass that you have never possessed in your natural life. And Barry did it at the absolute tailend of his career, which shows just how talented he was to begin with. Longwinded response I know, John is unequivocally wrong on this one.
Lots of people use peptides also now. BPC 157 is great for tendons strength. They is another that you take with that aswell but forgot what it is. Halotestin also does help with strength and rage. Rugby guys take that also.
I would have to disagree with John. There is an enormous difference between natural and PED usage. That slight edge can mean the difference between winning and losing in any sports. I don’t blame him for defending it so much because he’s used it to gain back his endurance and strength to competitive levels.
…. Steroids will not help you recover from armwrestling. Steroids do not help your tendons heal.. if you do steroids your muscles will be healed and you’ll still be spending days doing nothing waiting on your tendons
If you’re training correctly and eating well, you will respond many times better than someone who just decides to jump on. When you see someone who made a huge gain, that usually means they have already been training and eating well and their genetics played a role in a response to the PEDs.
You mean to tell me Matt Mask, given the advantage of a true, pro level long period of cycling, would not improve his already considerable ability? Yeah he may be a little older so I'm not sure. But what I'm saying is I don't think the GOAT here is giving them enough due consideration. They're in every sport and they can make a huge difference. I also like the commenter or commenters who've mentioned Ermes. Come ON... look at how much he's changed over the past 3 years. That has nothing to do with his genetics or structure or ligaments and has a whole lot to do with the use of steroids.
I dont think that (steroids) should be the main topic, It should be ALL PEDS because the main issue with learning and becoming a great armwrestler is the ability to train smart and not get hurt. Armwrestling is horrible for injuries and pain in general. Most people who attempt to become armwrestlers never last because its painful . NOW there are several PEDS that aid in tendon and muscle rapair helping the beginner and experienced armwrestler to get back on the table sooner with far less pain... what's the use of taking steroids and becoming (strong) if you cant use the strength because of pain or injury...
Nobody wants to REALLY talk. This sport is structured on gear and it is the foundation of all the big time events and guys. Without pulling back the curtain and addressing the wizard… we can never go home toto. Just because it’s “John” does not remotely make him right. Half his career was unnatural. That guy who won over the top at 190 ish would get SMOKED in todays field. Look at his return… he was in 1 minute plus wars getting his wrist taken by guys not on world stage in dmitry kachan… then improves every month… to thicker, heavier, stronger… ( tough to do in late 50s… if not impossible) and goes on to smoking a many many many time waf, zloty and everything else champ in zoloev. If they pulled when he pulled dmitry… zoloev wins easy. What changed.? It’s John… not his knowledge or lanes…. Be honest… look at obvious.
Greg doucette talk a shot load about steroids, fake natty , tested events, everything can be cheated. He also said , most of steroids user don’t look to be on gear . It’s like people saying , he compete in WAF, he’s natty. Yes sure… what you got on ped is still there once you stop, muscle have memory, another cycle and you’re right there again and more because you still keep some while off.
Oh it make A LOT of difference. Look at evgeny prudnyk and ermes gasparini for example. Those two used to be quite slim and now are heavyweights! If you are already great at armwrestling and have the wrist, tendon and forearm strength, itll only make you better. Better recovery from training, higher training frequency, larger/ stronger muscles, tendon and bone thicken over time, the list goes on.
Yea, I love John, but with all due respect, I think he's way off on this one. There are what can be termed, genetic hyper-responders to PEDs. That is to say, you put two guys on the same cycle of X PEDs, same lifting routine, same diet, etc. One guy gains 5-10lbs of muscle, the other guy gains 25-30 lbs of muscle during the cycle. The uncomfortable truth here that people need to start acknowledging is that genetic variation is going to be the primary factor in response to the drugs. That is completely out of an individual's control.
I get what John is saying about having the right structure and technique but that can be said about any sport. PEDs will make a big difference when combined with increased stress capacity and training. Furthermore, it will make the user more aggressive which I think is a good thing for arm wrestlers
Steroids is not just about gaining mass like John says. Some help growing muscles, other improve endurance, the other increase recovery etc etc. In any sport nowadays natural athletes and juiced are like a day and night. I guess John was too genetically talented and sport was too young so thats the difference wasn’t that noticeable back then
Having been around runners who needed to increase their V02 Max, Certain types of steroids increase oxygenation and reuptake. That is why cycling pro's and runners use them. But there is no beating a natural athlete who is dedicated anyway so when they also take enhancements they become unbeatable in their class. I am naturally in the 91st percentile when testing my V02 max. While that is excellent there would be no way for me to win a race against a runner who has worked on it their whole lives and wins races. I did nothing with my natural ability but if I were to train for three years in any weight sport, I would not need to use PEDs. I would max out later than most naturally. You see how Devon breaths when he competes? He has a high rate of oxygenation so he can outlast a sprint hitter who breaths short and heavy or who has to hold their breath to make progress.
Denis and Levan prove that GH is the PED of armwrestling. They are two of the greatest, often elevated above everyone but John himself and both clearly abusing it. I don't hold that against them at all, if they aren't tested more power to them. I love pushing the limits
Levan went from just another super heavy in the pack to absolutely untouchable for years, until someone was willing to do as much gear as him. Not everyone is a hyper responder like that but for guys who are, it's massively advantageous. Look at Denis...Levan....how big and strong Ermes got in a short time.
Make no mistake. Arm wrestling is a strength sport. I respect John's opinion alot. But if you factor in everything, PEDs help tons. It's not just about muscle gain, but a huge thing is recovery. You can just practise all day long and heal from it. All he knows is probably TRT and a few other drugs. But there is very potent stuff on the market, that most people have no idea about.
I believe John knows more than he is saying and is downplaying the effects of steroids on purpuse. PEDs are a very controversial topic. As the respectful person he is, he is trying to preserve the integrity of the sport and his fellow pullers.
I agree, he's probably trying take the responsible approach with this topic when it comes to all of the newcomers and mid level amateurs (who will hang on his every word/ piece of advice) who might be on the fence about staying natural or not. He's thinking about their future and long term health, too, most likely.
In 1952 the world record two hands snatch in the mid-heavyweight class (90 kgs bodyweight) was around 320 lbs, without anabolic steroids, which weren't yet available commercially. By 1967, a full 15 years later, the world record snatch was around 330 lbs, and steroids were already widely in use. So, a 10 lb increase over a 15-year period. By 1982, however, another 15 years later, the record had jumped a full 90 pounds to 430 pounds! That's an indication of how much the steroid dosages had increased during that period. So, to talk of a 2% or 3% or 5% strength increase from big-time steroid use seems to me to indicate that John doesn't realize just how much these drugs affect strength. Now of course armwrestling is different from Olympic lifting, but nonetheless a strength increase vastly greater than 5% can be expected when an already strong athlete who knows how to build strength loads up on the juice. The increase in the snatch record from 340 to 430 within 15 years is a 26% increase. During the same 15-year period from 1967 to 1982 the clean & jerk in the same weight class went from around 430 to around 515, a 20% increase. Given that steroids were already in use in 1967, it's clear that the total gain between, say, 1960, when steroids were increasingly used by lifters, and 1982, the records in the snatch and the clean & jerk increased about 33% and 25% respectively. As for superheavyweights, the pre-steroid Clean & Jerk record was around 440 pounds (pre-1960), and it now stands at around 590 pounds, a gain of 34%. The difference made by large-dose steroid use is massive in both Olympic lifting and powerlifting, and I fail to see why it would not also be massive in armwrestling, and certainly much more than a 5% increase in effective strength. I leave aside any discussion of the devastating health effects these drugs can bring in their wake-one can do an Internet search and find many horror stories among bodybuilders and strength athletes, and there are many more as yet untold/undiscovered harmful effects.
It doesn’t seem like coincidence that all the top guys juice. If it doesn’t help, get off of it and drug test like other mainstream sports. Feeling like you have to get on gear to compete at the top levels isn’t healthy for competitors or the sport in general.
FINALLY! Look at Levan’s old matches. That dude has easily put on 50 pounds of muscle since his early career. He’s blasting the trenboloney sandwiches and nobody’s talking about it.
It’s an absolutely massive advantage. Natural powerlifters totals are not even close to their PED using counterparts. Maybe a 20-50% advantage. 2 words….Levan Saganashvili
Considering Levan gained 225lbs from 18 to 30 and went from losing most matches to beating everyone on the planet !!! I'd have to disagree that it only makes 4 or 5 % difference !!! JMO
Some common misconcepts about PEDs: "Levan is the strongest because he is the one who takes more drugs" "Ermes is getting bigger, so he is taking more drugs than before" "Chaffee is small than he was, so he is clean now" None of those are true. These guys train and eat like monsters. PEDs helps a lot with the recover and with that extra effort you need in order to grow and gain weight and strengh, but those guys are special, we can take everything we want, the maximum we ill get is a holywood superhero shape.
PEDs allow the muscle to improve in many ways. If you train correctly the stress your muscles place on the tendons and ultimately the bones will lead to improved durability there as well. The process simply takes longer then it takes for muscles to adapt. Force development is more important then hypertrophy. PEDs will help there. John Brzenk on PEDs and the correct training in his day would have been freaky.
I completely disagree, you won’t make it to the top without them these days! Obviously he doesn’t fully understand pharmaceuticals. Also mass moves mass
All I have to say is Ermes. He went from struggling pulling against wild horse to beating Dave Chaffee because of PEDs. That’s not a little gain. That’s a big jump
If you think he wasn't in gears before you're completely delusional. (Sorry if I misunderstood the comment)
@@Gabriel.gt17 I think that was his point, wasn't it? That there if you're losing just taking more will often do the trick.
Yeah ermes looks like a different human being now. He ate his old self for a snack
he lost because he was not experienced enough in the WAL. The rules are very different from the WAF, and in a match between two top rollers with similar strength, experience makes all the difference.
Because of PEDs, diet, trainings and genetics, like everybody on high level. If you have to say something, say it all 😉
I know exactly why Brzenk underplays PED's and its because he's basing it on his own experience and since he started taking them at age 41 he would have seen much less of a response to them in terms of gaining mass and power as somebody who started taking them in their 20's. Although starting PED's at age 41 has its downside it also has an upside that Brzenk is taking advantage of. By starting at age 41 its allowing him to extend his career, its not a coincidence he's 58 years old and still elite on the world stage.
It's pretty impressive what he did all those years without them
💯💯
Yeah, he's underselling it. PEDs will without a doubt make you a much better armwrestler. There's a variety of things these guys take and it's not just the increased mass that helps, their strength increases way above natural limits as well. Powerlifters who compete in weight classes still manage to take anabolics and keep their weigh within range.
And as you alluded to, pretty safe bet that if Brenzk stopped taking TRT, he wouldn't be able to compete at the level he is right now. The man is a legend, but he's wrong on this one.
Besides genetics, quality of the PEDs, what type(s) you are taking, dosage and even how you are cycling them also matter very much. Someone who is only on TRT prescribed, won't see as much difference as someone who is cycling through various quality European manufactured PEDs and knows what they are doing
@@TC-by3il J's are allowed to lie in life by the Talmud. I'd wager he always took them. He is a company man.
The single best, unarguable example of how much steroids help is Levan. The man is amazing and genetically gifted in the fact that his frame can support that growth, and hyper responds to steroids. But the fact still remains that he didn't become as dominant until he upped his doses and calories and grew over 320+ pounds. Now he has become untouchable. Size and steroids 100% matter greatly, if you have the genetics to respond properly.
Edit: I'm not taking anything away from Levan. He's technically amazing and genetically blessed, but he wouldn't be what he is if steroids didn't matter.
True, if devon didn't take huge amounts of steroids for his match with levan he wouldn't have gained so much strength and would've lost to prudnik.
I mean, if you want to compete with the elites especially in Super Heavyweight thats what you have to do. Take a look at the eastern side this weekend and also west. There are just a few left who doesnt take it.
@@quintessence1343 you think prudnik isn’t on steroids? Don’t be stupid LOL Devon is just better and stronger then prudnik
@@quintessence1343 another example of different individual responses. Devon only gained 6 - 8 pounds on his cycle for Levan. But also he has to be a bit more careful due to prior DVT too, I think. Could be more hazardous to push the dosages for him since he's already been prone to blood clots.
@@quintessence1343 Prudnyk juices also, he just got smashed by the better arm wrestler.
I was arms reach at a UAL event when John beat Mike Todd and spoke of retirement… he said… and I quote…” if I keep doing what it takes to be at this level it’s gonna kill me”.. as a guy with my thoughts, this stuck with me.
So if it is only a measly percentage why Fisk “killing “ yourself.
These conversations are never honest by users because fear credit goes to compound and not ability… but that’s just.
It’s way more impactful than they admit.
INCREDIBLE GAINS… just look at bodybuilding pre 50s and now… same difference.
You are right
Thanks for this comment, very insightful.
It does make a huge difference if you're already technically sound and have a decent build with above average genetics. Plus some people like Levan are hyper responders and gain crazy amount of size and strength.
But as John said, it comes at a cost as the quality of life you lead outside arm wrestling wouldn't be very good.
Yes it all depends on the situation
From the interview you can tell John doesn't really know anything about different compounds and what they would really do for performance so I'm just guessing hes on like test only really
@@rjharrold2907 yeah Brzenk ain't really even juicing compared to what lots of these guys are doing! He's honestly taking what lots of older guys take that don't compete in anything
@@jedsteelwell2354 Yeah just trt doses is what I would expect really
He really just doesn't know about it
Hyper,hyper i hear this a lot these days. The noobs dont know it any better. HGH boys.......look for example denis hands when he was still young. Completely normal handy. Now look at them, mutated! And dont even look at his face...dont wanna knkw what hormones they take on the east part and russia.....dangerous stuff! Thats for sure.
He’s playing a fool. He’s been in Armwrestling for almost 40 years talking to every top guy ever and he’s pretending to not know anything about steroids.
That’s absolutely ridiculous
You can tell John doesn't really know much about PEDs and he's probably been natural for years and maybe TRT now. You'd need someone to talk like Levan, maybe Chaffee, cyplenkov or Ermes etc. But for sure a few months on tren or 500mg test your side pressure should evolve even higher while not necessarily gaining weight if your calories are in check.
John admitted to juicing heavy yo get to 250 for the Devan match
he jumped on gear after losing to Voevoda
Hence what is widely considered as his prime started the year after.
I believe I’ve heard him saying so actually
@@Alex-1750 yes, his face was about to explode from all the gear Vegas 2006. Lol
Why you point out those names? You could just say every top 20 guys pretty much knows about those even john himself. Its just who is going to be most open about it. John is a old man and he needs to juice more to keep up with the young ones. Devon pushing 50 his dick wont even get hard without it. They all know pretty damn well about peds trust me.
I don't care what physical sport you play, PEDs will have a significant impact on your performance. Arm wrestling is no different.
I don't know if John was playing dumb or just totally naive.
Most of the top are already doing it. The strength gain is way more than 2%.
PEDs don’t just give you mass, different substances can improve strength, reduce recovery time, reduce fat, improve stamina, and improve the psychological sense of one’s own strength. I think John knows this but has a hard time accepting it because he was so dominant as a natty and even now is only on TRT afaik. To him, it helps maintain more than gain. But for others, it’s like night and day. Prudnik is another good example. After a cycle, he he’s a different man. Voevoda is another example. If you took PEDs away from these guys, they would not be the same, not even close.
PEDs can completely overhaul an athlete and bring them to a new level. Just look at MMA. Guys like Vitor Belfort became absolute monsters on TRT. As soon as they banned TRT he came back a shell of himself.
No point of crying about Peds and cycle sizes. They all take it and its fair game for all of them. Older guys are taking high dose just to stay strong. I mean most of these dudes wont even have hard dick without it.
But armwrestling isn’t about muscle strength, it’s about tendons and joints / bones.. steroids don’t help with tendons ..
@@neverstoppulling5169 Saying it's not about muscle strength is beyond stupid. Look at before and after pics of Levan. Tell me now that PEDs don't help. He's the most dominant arm wrestler on the planet and it's all because he juices. No denying he's a genetic freak to be able to even handle the level of PEDs he's on but to act as if muscles don't help is wild. Go tell that to Devon who had to juice to his limits to even face Levon because of his sheer strength. Arm wrestling is about ALL strength period. You can have amazing tendons, bones, joints etc. but if you don't have muscle mass to move those parts and out muscle your opponents you will never reach the top. By your logic a lightweight could take on Levon and win. Use your brain.
@@TheGodofZilla PEDs like growth hormone, bpc 157, tb500 help yes. Steroids are not as big of a deal as they are made out to be though.
John is such a genuine human being
He says his personality is 'all natural'.
Levan, Ermes, Dimitry, Vitaly, Denis, Arsen, Irakli.
All those dudes wouldn’t perform half as good as they do now without gear!
as a ermes fan I can only agree with you. but almost everyone takes PED so the strongest wi s in the end ( Levan)
@@yannickcolot2319 oh yeah I know. Everyone is on gear including Brzenk! I was just disagreeing with John. John says the gear only helps a little bit. But I would say that gear has helped the individuals I listed tremendously.
I have been saying this for YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FACTS.
where is Devon lol
@@Ggeorge360 true true. He belongs in there too!
I'd honestly love to see a all clean League and see who is naturally the most gifted arm wrestler.
WAF is clean, proven by the fact that they actually ban armwrestlers if they fail drug tests.
The Ken Griffey Jr of armwrestling ha
@@metaphoria3Griffey Jr. was on steroids lol. He got huge and his head got way bigger part way through his career. You mean the Ken Griffey Sr. league.
@ Barry bonds? Griffey was never implicated or suspected
@ Lots of players who were not implicated did indeed take steroids (some have admitted it since). And as far as him not being “suspected” of steroids, that’s your own opinion. I DO suspect there is a very high chance he took them.
If you look at his stats by year, his batting averages stayed pretty consistent throughout his career but between the years 1992 & 1993, or his 4th and 5th years, his HR numbers jumped from low 20s to 40s and 50s every year except the one he was injured. If his batting average also jumped during that time, I’d believe that something just clicked for him. But he was getting hits at the same rate, the balls just suddenly started traveling a LOT farther.
The steroid era really started in 1993-1994, so his homeruns jumped up dramatically at about the same time the other steroid users’ homerun numbers did. Obviously it’s possible that all of these things are coincidences, but I find that HIGHLY unlikely.
John you’re a a great guy but don’t be delusional about steroids
Thank you for speaking for a guy who has infinitely more experience than you
@@VincentsVideoVisionswhat does that have to do with him ignoring the benefits of steroids. Don’t be butt hurt or a dummy like John is being
@@VincentsVideoVisions I love all you arm wrestler hard core fans that stick up for your heroes. You are all so cute.
John really is delusional, which is sad.
@@txblades1i love all you steroid accusing freaks. You think everyone takes them because either your genetics suck which is a small, small, very small percentage of people, or you were a crackbaby which is not your fault, or you dont have the discipline to get strong. Most people that take steroids have no business getting on them because they never reached the natural peak.
It absolutely matters, let's not kid ourselves
Lol, "not that much different than what they were"? Look at ermes, levan ect. Steroids make a huge difference. For example ermes. He lost horribly to matt mask and now he just destroyed chaffee 3-0 after bulking to nearly 300 pounds from steroids. That's a huge difference. Lol, look at morozov also. The dude is only 24 and gained that much mass and strength already.
Yeah the level those guys are on John has never dabbled with. It makes them different human beings
I think John is just being humble and nice about it. But also I think that John would probably say that a natural 200 lb guy vs enhanced 200 lb guy wouldnt be too different from each other (i.e equalize for weight)
@@wesleyb1458 John is roided to the gills, has been since he lost to Voevoda.
He bulked up a lot around 2005-2006.
He's just lying here to preserve his legacy.
@@OneDerscoreOneder John is roided to the gills, has been since he lost to Voevoda.
He bulked up a lot around 2005-2006.
He's just lying here to preserve his legacy.
Just look at Ermes, he's gained over 40 kilos in like 2 years. You can see he's going the Denis Path. Hopefully he doesn't end in the hospital as well.
I don’t think his frame can support the size of Levan. Denis at 140 was much leaner then Ermes at 130. Same with Morozov, he has abs while weighing 130-135.
@@YFun-ux5rs denis was not leaner at 140 what are you talking about?
@@YFun-ux5rs morozov in 5 years will be freaky
@@YFun-ux5rs what happened to ermes head and face is a tragedy, morozov's frame is just insane he will definitely beat ermes around 5 years from now
@@yannickcolot2319 Obviously I don't know their actual bodyfat numbers but Ermes looks more bloated and not as defined compared to peak Denis. Even their faces are quite different, Denis had a fairly chiseled face whereas Ermes looks like a balloon about to pop.
Don't get me wrong, Ermes is a fucking beast and he is prob #2 currently but I think he's very close to his ceiling whereas guys like Artem can surpass that both because he's younger and has a larger frame to pack on more functional weight.
I seriously doubt that Denis and Levan would have become what they are, without steroids. I think John is missing the fact that some substances can also alter your bone structure, in addition to increasing muscle mass.
Exactly. Levan was actually quite slender in frame before he became this abomination you see now.
There is nothing that can change your bone structure or tendon attachments. You can gain strength and size from the drugs but only if you're training and eating. Because of the amount of red blood cells going up and greater availability of n.o in the blood you get better pumps good for bodybuilding not for armwrestling. Some people are just made out of somthing else and they super respond to gear but truly that is not the norm.
I guarantee you Denis would be a nobody without roids, he was good but still not elite before the juice. He is a huge responder just like Levan is. Not hating, just facts
@@silvihome6975 he got number one in his local arm wrestling tournament when he was a teenager
@silvihome it's good manipulation to call your assumptions facts
There is no competetive armwrestler that is not taking steroids. For example in WAF where anti doping is a thing, starting at 55 kg to 110+ in every single weith class almost all favorite guys are on peds, imagine in every weight class u have to face : gifted genetics mixed with years of work and tons of roids. does not matter how gifted and dedicated u are, without tanking as much peds as them u are not winning against them.
What do you think about Ongarbaev how the hell he is natural.
Do you think he was natural when he and his team were planning to win against Levan?
I mean, they've worked amazingly for Ermes
It's not just about the moment you compete, it also affects the training capabilities and limits. No physical sport should allow steroids users mixed with natural athletes. There should be an EVERYTHING ALLOWED cathegory and a NATURAL cathegory, both being as transparent as possible
Absolutely man, that would be fantastic but I fear itl never ever happen sadly, and unlike this trans bs what you said actually makes 1000 percent perfect sense man!.
If the sport can add lighter weight classes and build up the interest in smaller guys, steroids/GH will be less important. That's already happening with the separation between the heavyweights and superheavies. We tuned in to see if Devon could rise to challenge Levan, but we're looking forward to seeing more matches at 253 or 265, etc. As new athletes arrive on the scene, we may look forward more to a 155lb championship than a Levan match. I think it will track the growth of the UFC which started with no weight classes and gradually added classes down to 125 lbs.
Who the hell wants to see 2-125 humans arm wrestle? Not many.
Imagine if nobody did PEDs and everyone just pulled or competed with natural strength gained by hard work. Wow, what an idea!
I think maybe what John is getting at is it won't help a ton because with that strength gain comes a lot more weight so you have to go up against bigger guys now.
So you would be better and stronger than your former natty self but you will go up in weight class.
Edit- Pradeep says the same thing at 4:20. Hadn't finished the video yet. And I agree that if you're a non weight class guy it will be much more advantageous. That's why all the big guys are all on steroids if they are at the top.
@neal cassady HGH is a hormone, not a steroid which what the subject was about. HGH is certainly helpful
@@robertgould9641 Hgh is a ped too just like steroids!
@@virginccyy7645 I know it's a PED LOL I didn't say it wasn't. The question was about steroids in particular.
But it's not a little bit extra, it's an insane amount of extra. It can be skeletal frame changes. Look at Levan
Funny that John thinks steroids has no effect... Alexy Voevoda says John is WRONG!!!! LMAO!!!!
You have a link? Clearly steroids have a massive effect on every athlete, John is wrong here.
John is roided to the gills, has been since he lost to Voevoda.
He bulked up a lot around 2005-2006.
He's just lying here to preserve his legacy.
If U think John was natty untill 44...sorry but thats a bit dum thinking. Gains aint everything.
John is such a good human being I suspect he’s thinking of avoiding influencing young guys to jump on gear and damage their health.
Damn if that’s part of his consideration it really does make him seem like a great guy
John is roided to the gills, has been since he lost to Voevoda.
He bulked up a lot around 2005-2006.
He's just lying here to preserve his legacy.
This is a great example of someone who should stay in the lane of expertise
To say steroids won’t help or to say they only help 10%
He’s either insecure about his own usage after 44 or truly has no idea about how steroids affect the body
Just because there are people who use them and don’t get results you’d expect doesn’t mean they don’t help
Yeah this is pure bullshit and I think John knows it. The strength component is arguably the biggest part of arm wrestling especially at a pro level and anabolics help massively. Banding about figures like 2 or 4% is either ignorant or just totally dishonest.
John is roided to the gills, has been since he lost to Voevoda.
He bulked up a lot around 2005-2006.
He's just lying here to preserve his legacy.
I wouldn't expect John to be an expert in steroids, however, he is right in saying steroids wont help if there is no foundation. John was natural pretty much his whole career, built an excellent foundation, then only looked into TRT when old age became a bigger factor. He wanted to maintain what he had and in doing so it allowed him to extend his dominance well beyond most other arm wrestlers while staying healthy. I doubt you will see the likes of Levan or Ermes still at the top in the next 10 years let alone in their 60's because of health issues they'll have to combat from all the hardcore steroids.
100% mate
Yup not worth it and it sets a bad example for younger guys.
100% look at Larry Wheels or strongmen. They’re some of the strongest people in the world and yet they can’t compete on the same level with other armwrestlers with years of training under their belt. Fundamentals are key as well as specific training to strengthen tendons/ligaments.
Yeah, you could tell the big difference between John in 2004 during "Pulling John" and him in 2006 vs. Pushkar, the supermatch.
John is roided to the gills, has been since he lost to Voevoda.
He bulked up a lot around 2005-2006.
He's just lying here to preserve his legacy.
Can we appreciate the growth of Pradeep as a figure in the sport great content and very brave to tell the Goat that you disagree on some point hats off my friend
I dig Pradeep man cool dude and great channel content!.
The fact that results in sports would be different if over-eating, training, and taking steroids would all somehow be banned and prevented is proof that over-eating, training and taking steroids just destroys the spirit of sports
They help DRAMATICALLY ! lol it’s a huge benefit ! Dennis, levan, and all the other hulks went on gear for years and years ! They pushed their bodies beyond what they could do without juice.
Of course without juice u can be a great arm wrestler but when you are in the elite level of arm wrestling, 1 percent can be the difference between winning and losing !
Steriods will help anyone in any sport by at least 20-30 percent of whatever u could do before ! It’s a very very beneficial thing. Guys are using 3000mg a week at the top level some more some less. And they are using HGH. This is jet fuel for arm wrestlers !
Lot of torn biceps happen. Muscles get stronger faster, but your tendons don't, they take a lot longer. So with all the force and different direction of movement when armwrestling. Tears can happen easily.
Devon went from like 260 to 300 in like 5 months. That aint pancakes. Not to mention his head grew like 5 hat sizes like Barry Bonds.
John as great he is isnt really educated enough on PEDs to give a good answer. The best thing you get is that you recover 2-3x faster which means you can train 2-3x more. its a HUGE difference. plus you gain strength advantage aswell.
John knows it waay better then you npc.
@@terminator8767 nope
@@terminator8767 John is roided to the gills, has been since he lost to Voevoda.
He bulked up a lot around 2005-2006.
He's just lying here to preserve his legacy.
When you are 50lbs heavier with 25lbs of that being muscle it is a big difference especially in the super heavy weight class. He might have been a great arm wrestler but he is either not very intelligent or just playing it down. In regards to staying in your current weight class, think about it you drop 5% bodyfat weight and replacie that with 5% muscle weight that 's a huge advantage and not hard to do on steroids.
if u are same weight well 80kg with roids and no roids its still different, deca and stuff giving u hell of a strength
all due respect to John..... Levan is prime example of what they do.... people might say Denis ... but that not true since Denis was taking them before he started arm-wrestling as he was professional strongman before he started doing arm-wrestling.
John is roided to the gills, has been since he lost to Voevoda.
He bulked up a lot around 2005-2006.
He's just lying here to preserve his legacy.
They all use steroids (at the elite level and even way below probably).
It makes a huge difference but steroids don’t make a good armwrestler, it takes a lot of dedication and also genetics.
That said nobody could ever reach the elite without PDs, but 95% (or more) of people couldn’t reach the elite even with all steroids in the world
I gotta say, I respect John’s opinion more than any other person in their respective sport, but as a former juice head myself (did multiple cycles in my 20s), the strength gains are MASSIVE. At the top levels, of course, more steroids aren’t going to necessarily make you start winning...BUT earlier in your career, you can absolutely skyrocket your progress miles and miles ahead of where you would be otherwise.
Armwrestling specific strength is different. And that is what John knows
Hey, I have a different opinion. I think he’s underplaying them just because he is being humble and doesn’t want to risk trash talking anyone else’s achievements.
Its just more classy to avoid putting emphasis on steroids.
I like your interview with John, you let him talk without interrupting him
Ends with a cliffhanger: "Who is Sap the Bee?" I guess Sap has changed his name or gone into hiding. He got too famous
It definitely makes a huge difference. Growing up in sports, some friends and people that I know admitted that they used them. They made gains so fast that it was mind blowing. I like John but, if they don't make much difference why did he start taking them at 44 and why want he stop. I prefer to watch natural athletes. I do not care if they do not look and perform like marvel characters.
trt is a different ball game tho, having the same normal levels you had at age 25-35 when you go into your later stages of life really makes a difference in terms of fighting the atrophy of old age and diminshed testo levels. most of all, your wounds and aches heals normally. i just look at the old men in my family, the ones that are not on TRT has problem healing just a small wound...sometimes takes many months for them, but the ones that are on TRT heal more normally like a few days or weeks like when they where in their 30s.
Everyone at an elite level in any physical sport is on performance enhancements. They create this idea that people are "drug tested" and that it means something. It doesn't mean anything at all.
I am a regenerative doctor and PED do increase not only the strength of muscles but they increase the strength of tendons and ligaments and the repair of tendons and ligaments. They basically enhance the natural repair process that the body innately has. The interosseous attachments of a tendon to a bone or a ligament to a Bone are also strengthened. This is very applicable with elbow injuries in arm wrestling. You can repair those injuries with PRP and regenerative growth factors tantamount to stem cells, but if you want to increase the overall constant general repair process of muscles, tendons and ligaments then taking PED’s would do that.
Why does that muscle eventually fade once PED users retire? Like a reverse metamorphosis.
Pretty sure you take someone like Chaffee and put him on a massive HGH plan you’d get another Levan. The repercussions would be irreparable health wise, but you’d be the best for a period of time.
It all depends on the person. Some bodies respond incredible well to steroids and they gain a ton of weight and strenght.
*John is roided to the gills, has been since he lost to Voevoda.*
*He bulked up a lot around 2005-2006.*
*He's just lying here to preserve his legacy.*
And here I've just been using creatine and 200g of protein a day,lol . Every workout for past 6 months I go up 1 to 2 reps each time on almost every exercise, others it takes 2 or 3 workouts to go up a rep or so. But making great gains without PEDs and I'm 41 and workout my whole life in one form or another.
That's a tough schedule on your kidneys and body though.
@@souldesire5932 maybe, but I'm 6,2 235lbs and cycle off creatine and train almost every day for 2 hours. So the protein gets used up but yes have to be careful with the kidneys,liver,and heart. Also every 60days I take a whole week off/7days to rest and reset my body.
Well i guess in the competitive world of sports, you've got to do all this supplement to stay up there. But everyone still needs to work in their craft and follow the general consensus in the industry.
Why did you end at the best part😂
You better ask all the European monsters about it
The unfortunate reality of steroids being illegal. What should be a very nuanced conversation about relative gains versus drawbacks is completely lacking any real information because the people talking about them know practically nothing about them and their effects.
This was the most ignorant comment every mouthed by John in regards to armwrestling. John couldn't be any farther from ignorant so I have to believe that he is "protecting" the top of the pecking order, which is actually admirable. The best possible example of how steroids can catapult a professional's career is Barry Bonds. He was as talented as anyone in baseball but he just didn't have the strength/power to drive the ball at a historic rate. Anyone that has ever played baseball on any level knows that to hit homeruns consistently you have to have power. ALL the power comes from your glutes and quads, you know, the two largest muscle groups in the body. If you already possess the eye-hand coordination to effectively make contact with major league pitching, just think what you can do with new found muscle mass that you have never possessed in your natural life. And Barry did it at the absolute tailend of his career, which shows just how talented he was to begin with. Longwinded response I know, John is unequivocally wrong on this one.
Lots of people use peptides also now. BPC 157 is great for tendons strength. They is another that you take with that aswell but forgot what it is. Halotestin also does help with strength and rage. Rugby guys take that also.
I would have to disagree with John. There is an enormous difference between natural and PED usage. That slight edge can mean the difference between winning and losing in any sports. I don’t blame him for defending it so much because he’s used it to gain back his endurance and strength to competitive levels.
Finally someone speaking about steroids in AW
There is also the recovery aspect, allowing you to train more, recover more and do more diverse training
Devon had 24 training session in a row before you typed this comment. 5% surely-
…. Steroids will not help you recover from armwrestling. Steroids do not help your tendons heal.. if you do steroids your muscles will be healed and you’ll still be spending days doing nothing waiting on your tendons
peds can strengthen ligaments too
PEDS also increases bone, ligament, and tendon density, and strength though.
If you’re training correctly and eating well, you will respond many times better than someone who just decides to jump on.
When you see someone who made a huge gain, that usually means they have already been training and eating well and their genetics played a role in a response to the PEDs.
Yes but if you are training and eating well AND juicing you will be better than if you were just training and eating well.
@@serginho6837 you just repeated what this guy said
@@60345 he is saying it is better not to use PEds , just training and eating well is better.
I'm a machine wen it comes to armwrestling i don't need steroids. But I won't reach high levels for being natural
You mean to tell me Matt Mask, given the advantage of a true, pro level long period of cycling, would not improve his already considerable ability? Yeah he may be a little older so I'm not sure. But what I'm saying is I don't think the GOAT here is giving them enough due consideration. They're in every sport and they can make a huge difference. I also like the commenter or commenters who've mentioned Ermes.
Come ON... look at how much he's changed over the past 3 years. That has nothing to do with his genetics or structure or ligaments and has a whole lot to do with the use of steroids.
I dont think that (steroids) should be the main topic, It should be ALL PEDS because the main issue with learning and becoming a great armwrestler is the ability to train smart and not get hurt. Armwrestling is horrible for injuries and pain in general. Most people who attempt to become armwrestlers never last because its painful . NOW there are several PEDS that aid in tendon and muscle rapair helping the beginner and experienced armwrestler to get back on the table sooner with far less pain... what's the use of taking steroids and becoming (strong) if you cant use the strength because of pain or injury...
Nobody wants to REALLY talk.
This sport is structured on gear and it is the foundation of all the big time events and guys.
Without pulling back the curtain and addressing the wizard… we can never go home toto.
Just because it’s “John” does not remotely make him right.
Half his career was unnatural.
That guy who won over the top at 190 ish would get SMOKED in todays field.
Look at his return… he was in 1 minute plus wars getting his wrist taken by guys not on world stage in dmitry kachan… then improves every month… to thicker, heavier, stronger… ( tough to do in late 50s… if not impossible) and goes on to smoking a many many many time waf, zloty and everything else champ in zoloev.
If they pulled when he pulled dmitry… zoloev wins easy.
What changed.? It’s John… not his knowledge or lanes….
Be honest… look at obvious.
Greg doucette talk a shot load about steroids, fake natty , tested events, everything can be cheated. He also said , most of steroids user don’t look to be on gear . It’s like people saying , he compete in WAF, he’s natty. Yes sure… what you got on ped is still there once you stop, muscle have memory, another cycle and you’re right there again and more because you still keep some while off.
Levan is the Barry Bonds of arm wrestling.
Wait!! How do you just end the video with a question like that without showing Johns answer!!?
a 5% gain is MASSIVE in elite sports of any kind.
Dont underestimate the optimized rehab when on juice. You can just train and take a lot more volume and weight. This accumulates over time.
Oh it make A LOT of difference. Look at evgeny prudnyk and ermes gasparini for example. Those two used to be quite slim and now are heavyweights! If you are already great at armwrestling and have the wrist, tendon and forearm strength, itll only make you better. Better recovery from training, higher training frequency, larger/ stronger muscles, tendon and bone thicken over time, the list goes on.
Yea, I love John, but with all due respect, I think he's way off on this one. There are what can be termed, genetic hyper-responders to PEDs. That is to say, you put two guys on the same cycle of X PEDs, same lifting routine, same diet, etc. One guy gains 5-10lbs of muscle, the other guy gains 25-30 lbs of muscle during the cycle. The uncomfortable truth here that people need to start acknowledging is that genetic variation is going to be the primary factor in response to the drugs. That is completely out of an individual's control.
You don’t think Richard Lupkes was on gear??
We have to remember that we have the outlier's who are hyper responders! Those are the guys who has gained approximately 100 pounds.
I get what John is saying about having the right structure and technique but that can be said about any sport.
PEDs will make a big difference when combined with increased stress capacity and training.
Furthermore, it will make the user more aggressive which I think is a good thing for arm wrestlers
Also lowers the amount of time you need to recover from training, allowing for even more intense workout/more table time.
Steroids is not just about gaining mass like John says. Some help growing muscles, other improve endurance, the other increase recovery etc etc.
In any sport nowadays natural athletes and juiced are like a day and night. I guess John was too genetically talented and sport was too young so thats the difference wasn’t that noticeable back then
Clean larrat against juiced Larrat huge difference
Athletes at the very top of a sport are usually separated by less then 1 percent. To say that 2-3% won't help much is crazy.
Having been around runners who needed to increase their V02 Max, Certain types of steroids increase oxygenation and reuptake. That is why cycling pro's and runners use them. But there is no beating a natural athlete who is dedicated anyway so when they also take enhancements they become unbeatable in their class. I am naturally in the 91st percentile when testing my V02 max. While that is excellent there would be no way for me to win a race against a runner who has worked on it their whole lives and wins races. I did nothing with my natural ability but if I were to train for three years in any weight sport, I would not need to use PEDs. I would max out later than most naturally.
You see how Devon breaths when he competes? He has a high rate of oxygenation so he can outlast a sprint hitter who breaths short and heavy or who has to hold their breath to make progress.
Denis and Levan prove that GH is the PED of armwrestling. They are two of the greatest, often elevated above everyone but John himself and both clearly abusing it. I don't hold that against them at all, if they aren't tested more power to them. I love pushing the limits
That question is answered with the example of Larry Wheels.
Awesome bro you interviewed Brzenk, love your channel by the way sir you do great work !.
They are all on steroids
-Nate Diaz
Thanks for asking him
You guys are neglecting the fact that peds are not exclusive to mass building. There are a variety of compounds and strategies for doping.
Levan went from just another super heavy in the pack to absolutely untouchable for years, until someone was willing to do as much gear as him. Not everyone is a hyper responder like that but for guys who are, it's massively advantageous. Look at Denis...Levan....how big and strong Ermes got in a short time.
Dennis has all the answers in this topic.
Make no mistake. Arm wrestling is a strength sport. I respect John's opinion alot. But if you factor in everything, PEDs help tons. It's not just about muscle gain, but a huge thing is recovery. You can just practise all day long and heal from it. All he knows is probably TRT and a few other drugs. But there is very potent stuff on the market, that most people have no idea about.
It will make u stronger it won’t make u a world champion if your not already talented
John always well spoken and thought out on his views
We will NEVER again see natural ability rein like Brzenk.
I believe John knows more than he is saying and is downplaying the effects of steroids on purpuse. PEDs are a very controversial topic. As the respectful person he is, he is trying to preserve the integrity of the sport and his fellow pullers.
I agree, he's probably trying take the responsible approach with this topic when it comes to all of the newcomers and mid level amateurs (who will hang on his every word/ piece of advice) who might be on the fence about staying natural or not. He's thinking about their future and long term health, too, most likely.
In 1952 the world record two hands snatch in the mid-heavyweight class (90 kgs bodyweight) was around 320 lbs, without anabolic steroids, which weren't yet available commercially. By 1967, a full 15 years later, the world record snatch was around 330 lbs, and steroids were already widely in use. So, a 10 lb increase over a 15-year period. By 1982, however, another 15 years later, the record had jumped a full 90 pounds to 430 pounds! That's an indication of how much the steroid dosages had increased during that period. So, to talk of a 2% or 3% or 5% strength increase from big-time steroid use seems to me to indicate that John doesn't realize just how much these drugs affect strength. Now of course armwrestling is different from Olympic lifting, but nonetheless a strength increase vastly greater than 5% can be expected when an already strong athlete who knows how to build strength loads up on the juice. The increase in the snatch record from 340 to 430 within 15 years is a 26% increase. During the same 15-year period from 1967 to 1982 the clean & jerk in the same weight class went from around 430 to around 515, a 20% increase. Given that steroids were already in use in 1967, it's clear that the total gain between, say, 1960, when steroids were increasingly used by lifters, and 1982, the records in the snatch and the clean & jerk increased about 33% and 25% respectively. As for superheavyweights, the pre-steroid Clean & Jerk record was around 440 pounds (pre-1960), and it now stands at around 590 pounds, a gain of 34%. The difference made by large-dose steroid use is massive in both Olympic lifting and powerlifting, and I fail to see why it would not also be massive in armwrestling, and certainly much more than a 5% increase in effective strength. I leave aside any discussion of the devastating health effects these drugs can bring in their wake-one can do an Internet search and find many horror stories among bodybuilders and strength athletes, and there are many more as yet untold/undiscovered harmful effects.
It doesn’t seem like coincidence that all the top guys juice. If it doesn’t help, get off of it and drug test like other mainstream sports. Feeling like you have to get on gear to compete at the top levels isn’t healthy for competitors or the sport in general.
FINALLY! Look at Levan’s old matches. That dude has easily put on 50 pounds of muscle since his early career. He’s blasting the trenboloney sandwiches and nobody’s talking about it.
It’s an absolutely massive advantage. Natural powerlifters totals are not even close to their PED using counterparts. Maybe a 20-50% advantage. 2 words….Levan Saganashvili
Great interviewer
Considering Levan gained 225lbs from 18 to 30 and went from losing most matches to beating everyone on the planet !!! I'd have to disagree that it only makes 4 or 5 % difference !!! JMO
Some common misconcepts about PEDs:
"Levan is the strongest because he is the one who takes more drugs"
"Ermes is getting bigger, so he is taking more drugs than before"
"Chaffee is small than he was, so he is clean now"
None of those are true. These guys train and eat like monsters. PEDs helps a lot with the recover and with that extra effort you need in order to grow and gain weight and strengh, but those guys are special, we can take everything we want, the maximum we ill get is a holywood superhero shape.
PEDs allow the muscle to improve in many ways. If you train correctly the stress your muscles place on the tendons and ultimately the bones will lead to improved durability there as well. The process simply takes longer then it takes for muscles to adapt. Force development is more important then hypertrophy. PEDs will help there.
John Brzenk on PEDs and the correct training in his day would have been freaky.
I completely disagree, you won’t make it to the top without them these days! Obviously he doesn’t fully understand pharmaceuticals. Also mass moves mass
I think JB is underestimating the strength gain. For some people it makes a huge difference