Adding to the Mel being sent out on missions while pregnant point, she is stated to be their best doctor why the hell would you send you best doctor on patrol missions?
@@larspeiren2638 do WLF not have leadership? why anyone in their right mind would send 7-8 month pregnant woman on active duty? "she wanted to" is not good enough reason. i thought that was suppose to be sub military organization? who cares that she's the best doctor they have you are pregnant woman! irresponsibile at that, she would be a horrible mother with that attitude
@@IDK-eu7dv she actually does care about Joel, she describes him as "the one person who would understand what they're trying to do" in an audio recording in part 1. she just doesn't value his need to protect Ellie over finding a cure.
@@masongarrod6681 honestly pretty much all of the criticisms of the second game seem to be made by people who either didn't play it or weren't paying attention to the complexity of the ending of the first game.
Oh my... I must have missed him saying that so I'm glad I read your comment! I hate killing those damn dogs. That scene with Abby picking up Alice from the dog pens, when she throws the ball for Bear before they leave hurt me. I remember when I killed Bear as Ellie, someone crying out his name, sounding devastated, and my dog is called Charlie Bear so it stuck with me and throwing that ball for him as Abbie made me feel like a total shit!
Catherine Holmes ikr, no one’s out here talking about Bear. I always killed the dogs first as quickly as possible so I could get the pain over with and focus on killing on the people instead of dwelling on what I’ve done. But yeah, the first time I took a dog’s life in this game, I pretty much cried.
@@cathyannis83 Which is exactly why they included that scene. It's manipulative storytelling. The entire scene is supposed to be a giant moral event horizon where Ellie crosses that line by killing Bear, Mel and Owen-all of whom are portrayed as innocent. They really, REALLY want you to hate Ellie.
@@Cassandra_Solidor oh i know what they were doing, it's just a shame that dog is the only time they got close to the effect they were going for, in my case anyway, and even then it was only really the fact its name was so similar to my beloved old boy that really made it get to me like it did.
@@olschoolTonyCarter nah, dude. Its a woke af cringe fest of a game made by a guy who sniffs his own farts. I hope they fire him, he is one of those people who ruin the gaming industry.
Yeah, I found it amusing because Neil's clearly such a fan of the tv show, Supernatural. It's obvious he got idea for Last of Us from the Croatoan episodes, which started in Season 2 but were more featured in 2009 when Uncharted 3 was wrapping up production. You can even see an extra dressed in the same garb as Joel in episode 5.4 "The End" where Dean goes to the evil apocalyptic future where zombies (I mean Crotoans infected) are everywhere forcing people to live in settlements. Thankfully the settlement is less Westworld themed.
Pretty much cementing that Abby’s dad is an asshole who doesn’t seem to give a shit about putting Ellie’s life in jeopardy considering he has a daughter of his own. So you’d think he’d sympathize and speak to Ellie about what she wants but nope! Just no questions or talks with her, fuck you Abby’s dad.
What they should've done if they wanted this story to work, was make a full- length spin-off game (or something along those lines) with abby as the main protagonist and focusing solely on her story without showing or even mentioning joel and ellie. Naughty Dog has a good reputation when it comes to writing, so i'm sure they would have been able to make us fall in love with abbey the same way were with joel and ellie. The main plot could focus on her trying to meet up with her father, who left to do medical research on the other side of the country. And could've ended right when she reached the hospital. just straight to end credits without showing the aftermath. The last of us 2 could now play out the same way it did. The moment fans see abby, it would create an intense moment of excitement, suspense and tension because we would be wondering and speculating if she already knows that it was joel who killed her father or if she knows that the guy who saved her is joel and what she was gonna do when she finds out. Furthermore, since we are all presumably in love with her like how we are with ellie, imagine how conflicted we would feel when she kills joel. Not to mention since we would have already played her story, her childhood flashback scenes could've been omitted.
Dakhan thank you. That is one of the reasons part 2 is kind of bad. The devs accelerate Abbys story, instead of growing it naturally. It’s like DC movies, they wanted their justice league movie but they didn’t make the other 25 movies first to make it better.
There’s absolutely no reason to shove the “you’re a murdering bastard” narrative in a game that forces you to kill people *every* step of the way. Only games like Splinter Cell, Thief, or the Metro games (and many more of course) actually give you the opportunity to spare people most of the time. And yes, I know that the Metro games do force you to kill people in some levels, but at least they don’t make you kill everyone, since you can still get the best moral ending by only killing in those specific levels. This is still more reasonable than never giving you a choice at all.
KaNarcy DaLive1 Yup. Exactly what I was thinking. Mgs 5 doesn’t tell you one way or the other if killing people is bad (except for children) but instead changes snake over time, while saying nothing.
MGS also have mandatory combat sections with boss fights. But MGS also doesnt try to make you feel sorry for that as well MGS theme is not about "killing people is bad", heck even Spec Ops:The Line was mostly meta commentary about doing things because you were meant to do then and not "killing bad!" as well having different endings that the player can choose thats a lot more we can say about this game.
Idk, a lot of them have solid counter-arguments. For example, the guy at 24:38 is not Tommy. Also, It can take about a month or month and a half before someone knows they're pregnant.
@@Robot404_ Of course that's Tommy, he even has the wound made by Yara, when you see him at the theater (his clothes are thorn in the spot were she hit him).
i really liked TLOU 2, but that part i really didn't understand, lol. dina must have had a serious concussion, ellie's arm was broken, and tommy was shot in the head. who the hell got them out of there? haha
16:50 you just absolutely destroyed the entire ending of the first game. Bravo! I absolutely hated this forced conflict. “Kill a child to save humanity” like any rational adult, ESPECIALLY A DOCTOR, wouldn’t immediately search for a third option. Plus if you fail and have to try again: oops, no immune miracle child any more! It’s gone, you killed it! Good job destroying humanity’s last hope for your arrogant conviction that you could create a cure for zombie virus in a garage lab
What I never understood was how they got her and wanted to operate to try get a vaccine in less than a day, which is realistically impossible. They’re not really on a time budget, because most of humanity is gone anyway. Also the Marlene inconsistency was really strange. In the second game she felt really reluctant and argued against the surgery, and in the first game she was quick to march Joel out and shoot him if he tried anything.
Édio Cerati Neto so in the first game the fireflies were a bunch of incompetent bumble fucks trying desperately to make a cure that had no guarantee of actually existing?
@@v.cutsman4566 I liked Abby the only think she did "wrong" Was kill Joel but he did rig the world of a vaccine and killed Abby's father but I can see why you wouldn't like Abby too.
My issue was that the ending of the first game was meant to be this harsh, selfish decision by Joel, choosing to possibly doom the world over letting his adoptive daughter go. In this game, Abby's motivations aren't fueled by that decision. It's because Joel killed her dad. Abby's dad could've been any random enemy in the first game, him being the doctor had no significance The first game doesn't make you feel bad for killing people, it makes you feel bad for dooming humanity. But the second game pretends that your "immoral decision" was killing a doctor, not preventing the vaccine.
The ending of the first game was supposed to be ambiguous so the player could ponder if he made the right decision or not. We can safely assume Joel was right from content in the first game. They also proceed to retcon the fireflies by painting them as people who actually wanted to help.
@@unknown_individual7050 yeeeah... Especially after they planned to kill joel after,not giving their end of the deal,and generally screwing over joel...
yeah honestly I just tought Abby was a former FireFly who just killed joel out of revenge what he did. I was so dissapointed when I found out about her father.
Well, Neil said that players felt "love" from the first game's story, and then they'd get a story about "hate" this time. Mission was a success and people are angry.
"Joel's charge was second degree at best. Abby's was definitely in the first degree." I just noticed this but Abby still has her handgun when she runs away from the WLF. She took the other guy's handgun. She didn't have her own.
Neil Drunkmann: 'I can't understand how people can get so worked up over fictional characters' Also Neil Drunkmann: 'We care about these characters more than anyone else'
@@Kingdom850 why create and humanized said fictional characters for the audience to get attached to and then turn around and say the audience shouldn't care... Only proves how much of a joke Niel is... You wouldn't hear Tolkien, Martin (got), Lucas, or any great writer downplay their work because they fucked up.
Qwankyo he is not saying people shouldn’t care about these characters. He is saying he doesn’t get how they can “care” enough to go find the actress that voices an ingame character they disliked and wish cancer to her and her family. That’s slightly over the top.
@@maestroacog3566 Did you not realize that the only reason she did was because Lev had to stop her from killing a pregnant woman on purpose? If Lev didn't show up she would have killed them both. She didn't spare them to "end the cycle". She did it so Lev wouldn't look at her look a monster for killing a pregnant woman who was already unconscious.
I haven't heard anyone bring up the fact that Abby premeditated Joel's murder. I think the subtle difference between premeditated murder vs. 2nd degree murder is something that the writers didn't really think about when they were making this game. If you're going to make a grimdark revenge story like what they TRIED to do here, then it's important to examine these subtleties ESPECIALLY if you want people to sympathize with the murderer as opposed to the loved ones of the murder victim.
Ellie sets out to kill Abby too. While Joel did not set out in the first place specifically to kill Abbys dad on a personal level, he deliberately and knowingly set out to kill them all
i'd say killing the man that doomed humanity is a fairly just thing to do...and yeh it's premeditated, Abby is terrified of him and for good reason, he brutally killed all of the fireflies who were trying to save mankind, people seem to miss that. I love Joel but if i was Abby i'd want to kill him too, if you really think about it Abby had more of a right to kill Joel than Ellie has to kill Abby. you might not like it but its the truth.
I don't think the Firefly organization's efforts would have succeeded anyway. The zombie infection is a fungal disease & those require MUCH different treatment methods from simple bacterial & viral infections. The idea of a "vaccine" wouldn't have worked either as a result. Vaccines only work for viral & bacterial infections & even then they're no help to those who are already infected. The group would have to find or create some sort of medication that could actually ELIMINATE the spores from a person's body altogether & I don't know if they had the means to do that. In addition, something that neither Joel nor the doctors NEVER did was actually TALK to Ellie about the possibility of having to sacrifice here life before the decision to kill her was made. The fact that the doctors at the very least didn't bother consulting her doesn't paint them in a positive light & can make Joel's murder of them more justified.
Joel killed to save Ellie, and yes it was selfish but it came out of love. Abby tortures Joel for her own satisfaction, kills him and never shows any type of remorse at all even after seeing that she did the same thing Joel did to her. And about the whole Joel doomed humanity argument, it only works if you accept a lot of inconsistencies. Why is Ellie the only person inmunne? In real life virus scenarios there are always some people that are inmunne, not just one. If Abby's dad had such important knowledge then why not pass it down to Abby or write it down somewhere? Also, Fireflies were never a fully benign organization, they were very grey almost terrorist like. Giving the Fireflies the power of a possible cure could be a mistake. If Abby's dad was such a great doctor then why rush to kill Ellie? They had her for less than a day and yet murder was the only option on the table? Sounds like that doctor was not as good as we thought. I am not justifying Joel killing everyone and being selfish but that whole let's kill the only inmunne person the first day she gets here, was just stupid and could have been just another useless murder. I know the devs just put it there for the whole moral thing, but if your game tries so hard to be realistic then you had to give us solid proof that the fireflies had the power to make a cure.
I was so confused at how Tommy acted in that epilogue. And when Abby said "good" after learning Dina was pregnant, it completely destroyed all attempts to get us to like her or sympathize with her. I tried keeping an open mind until the end credits. Not a big fan of the game.
Imagine the balls Tommy had to have to be the only adult in the situation, coming to a girl he views as a teenager's house and instead of appreciating that he, Ellie, Dina and JJ are alive. He guilt trips Ellie into seeking revenge for him. He's supposed to be the adult in this situation. Not to mention how many 180's he did with what he wanted throughout the game. Someone actually pointed out Tommy was the real villain of the game.
@@nokturnallex2160 I'm not gonna explain everything but characters change over time , Tommy was conflicted just like any other human being would be , he couldn't let it rest . You guys criticize the game a lot but it's really a masterpiece . I was coming from a place where I hated that game before it came out but now I see , everybody was wrong
One of my biggest issues with the game - imagine you’re driving home, you stop at a gas station and you get a call from a close person and he / she tells you that one of your family members has just died, as you’re about to enter your car, some random guy asks you if you can help him change his tire - this random guy can be the best human that ever lived - you’re probably won’t help him, cause currently you don’t care about him and want to be with people you do care about. Simillar situation is in this game - we follow Ellie throughout almost entire first game, for the first half of second game, we care about her, her story, her problems, her friends etc. We then have to put all of that on hold and start focusing on Abby (who we most likely hate because of what she did to Joel) her friends, her story, her problems etc. Just how exactly are we supposed to emphatise with her if much more beloved character is in tough situation herself? PS before someone misinterpets my comment - no I’m not saying that playing as different character for few hours is the same as losing a loved one, I’m saying that we care about someone more than someone else.
Seriously. It’s a real shame Bruce didn’t work on this game with Neil. It explains why the game is horribly depressing and that nothing really good comes out of the game.
*Abby Never did anything to redeem her murder of Joel in my eyes, and the devs could only come up with pairing her with a cute kid and hope that the first game's magic would rub off on her . Forgiving someone who loved you and who you loved back over a Lie is a far cry different from forgiving someone you never knew who showed uo one day and tortured someone you loved to death , destroyed your entire world and who never once sought forgiveness or showed remorse.* *i undrestand the game's message that revenge is bad,but it really only comes across as bad when Ellie is the one seeking it.Abby got her vengeance, it was practically served up to her on a silver plate , she was never once sorry for it and wasn't punished for it to the same degree.* i could feel Dartigan's frustration over what this game turned out to be and felt like he was actually one of the fans that waited 7 years for a much greater disappointment than the trailers have shown , even tough he was so objective avoiding to be biased
Everyone should be upset. We were lied to and told to sympathize with someone who we don't know and killed someone who mattered to us in the first game, and not just killed but brutalized. Even if you didn't care for the first game that's outrageous.
She killed the man who killed her father. Yeah, torturing him wasn't right and maybe she could show some remorse for allowing herself to go that far but she does suffer through the game though. Saying she doesn't is just blinding oneself from what actually happened in the game.
Zapphoman she suffers because she pets a dog that dies later on? She suffers because she slams pregnant mels boyfriend? Is there any other things that happen that were shoved in your face? I can’t remember, this game was so forgettable
@@geraldmorgan9302 so forgettable but you remember those things? All of the people who helped her with Joel's murder die, including Owen who she cared most about? She gets taken by slavers and hung on a post for who knows how long, where she wastes away into a husk of what she used to be?
29:00 I'm surprised you didn't sin any of the buhjillion times people fell from heights, or took hits, that should've killed them. Like Lev taking that Falcon Punch into the garage door from Fat Geralt. #FatGeralt4Life 🤟
@@futureflash6331 I laughed and had to watch that scene several times. Not because I wish harm to Lev. But because there was no way Lev should've survived that, unscathed. It was unintentionally funny in such a continually dour game. That punch was literally a 1-way ticket to always wearing a helmet, no sharp utensils, and perpetual drooling.
@@notacompleteidiot...1285 Bro that was the one moment aside from the flashbacks I actually liked in this game call me what you will but that was funny af someone even replayed the video and saw that our boi actually bullcharged him, he actually built up his speed and put it into his punch that just made it even funnier lol
i'm ok wih people surviving falls, it fits my suspention of disbelieve, barely but does. what doesn't fit is mel. 7-8 month pregnant woman would NEVER be on the active duty in real life. 7-8 pregnant woman that falls from hights, goes through car crash, and freaking slams her belly into a wall when jumping!
My 17yo daughter asked what that was as she watched me play LoU2 and I told her the PS Vita, which she said she'd never heard of. I told her that's cos there's more people playing on a PS Vita in the LoU2 than I've ever actually seen in real life!
sonofkabisch well as fair as she could get. Abby was left there starving for a good long while and Ellie is still injured but is still able to kill basically the entirety of the group. So I’d say Ellie was in slightly better shape, so it wasn’t entirely fair, plus Ellie has a knife for half the fight.
While I like ideas this game seems to try and play with like Ellie self-destructing on revenge and knowing that she'll never have the closure she wanted regarding Joel and his murder, I'm with Dartigan on how it really underminds them with how they handled Abby. - Abby pretty much got what she wanted with Joel's death, never once felt remorse for it, and was even given a really ham-fisted attempt at making her sympathetic when in reality it just showed how messed up she really is. The devs could have at least given her a moment where she realized that her friends' deaths were all her fault and (like Ellie during their final fight) realized how revenge had brought them all full circle to the exact same situation that caused all this.
But Abby DID feel remorse. That's why she went back to save the kids - she felt like it was a way to redeem herself, at least in her own eyes. She did get her revenge, but it didn't make her feel better. She still had nightmares about her dad's death.
Abby lost everyone she cared about killed either by Ellie or Tommy. She maybe got her revenge but aint cheap. And she in her 20's, do u think she cant atone for Joel murder? In your eyes Joel atone for his 20 years of bad life in just 1 game. & dont call me Abby fan cuz i m not. I still prefer Joel & Ellie.
What’s funny about this world is that after the outbreak there is only one existence per each name. So you’re telling me that there’s only one Joel?!?!? Lol
Honestly, I feel like if Ellie had saved Lev and Yara and helped them instead of Abby, and established Ellie and Lev as a Joel and Ellie type of relationship it would've made more sense, and rewarded Ellie for not pursuing her revenge. EDIT: I don't mean for Abby to be taken off completely, yes play as Abby but actually let her show remorse as a way to redeem her if they wanted to redeem her. And Ellie would still lose almost everything(family, friends) but Lev. And Abby would lose a lot too, but maybe Owen should live? I just like happy endings, or at least bittersweet
Two more sin to add: Mel's characters (pregnant girl) who was "upset" over Joel's murder, clearly agreed to going along with the road trip of revenge, and she knew she was pregnant, once again putting her unborn baby at risk by traveling across country to maybe get a chance at assasinating Joel, while fighting through a harsh winter on horseback and fighting off zombies. They also write Mel to be upset over Joel's murder, with the other character commenting "she's not like us" so when Mel is berating Abby for being a horrible violent person, the writers forget that Mel wanted to then murder Ellie and Tommy, Mel wanted to MURDER the girl screaming in horror over Joel's death,(watch Joel's murder again, the version from Abby's perspective) and it's only Owen and Abby who show compassion to the other two victims and let them live. So murderous Mel, who is willing to murder an innocent girl who they just pinned to the floor to watch her loved one be beaten to death, is criticizing Abby's morals, and is upset over the event. This story was clearly written compartmentalized, and over a long period of time, and changed around often. The amount of contrivances and inconsistencies are all over the place. Yeah... "10/10"
@@tomasdelcampo2 I know, right? After watching this video I never realized how much convoluted crap I missed. At least the gameplay, scenery, foraging for supplies is fun.
@@youkolvr8922 Yup. About one month later. We go from Owen revealing that Mel just diagnosed herself as pregnant to smuggling a melon in under one month!
“Everything Wrong with TLOU1 video:” *exists* Everyone: dare you insult a masterpiece!!!! “Everything Wrong with TLOU2 video:” *exists* Everyone: How is this video only 30 minutes long?
@@shahrezaziz3264 when game journalists give this game a 10/10 even though there's clear evidence of marketing deception, emotional scenes just because Naughty Dog wants you to feel a certain way, and let's not even talk about the fact that there is a clear bias in professional game reviewers because Battle For Bikini Bottom has low reviews because it's slightly inconvenient to complete a puzzle. Meanwhile, TLOU2's accessibility settings make the game extremely easy and thus despite the terrible story the game has 10/10's across the board. I'm not saying that people who give the game a high rating are wrong for their opinions, the game has incredible graphics for one, I'm just saying that the game doesn't make sense if you look at it closely but it still has highly rated reviews from almost about everyone. Personally I think that taking this game apart and really thinking about what happens is the best way to think about whether or not it deserves a high or low rating, but that's just me.
Emanuel Roberts Emanuel Roberts umm what?? Marketing deception is very prevalent in all kinds of stuff today, marvel movies most of all and people don’t seem to have a problem. Emotional scenes because they want you to feel a certain way??? Bruh... isn’t that the point of any emotional scene in anything ever?? Dramatic media and other media in general is literally designed to emotionally manipulate audiences to feel one thing or the other???? And you say it has 10/10s despite the ‘terrible story’ but then also say people have opinions. How are their opinions of it being a masterpiece invalidates when you don’t feel the same way??? A lot of people I’ve personally met who played the game pretty objectively loved it too, as did I, and quite a few disliked it as well. Doesn’t make any one opinion more honest than the other, so not quite sure what you’re on about
Shahrez Aziz truthfully the game was at most a 6 or 7 at best the story is what brought it down. I’m thankful for the accessibility settings because of my disabilities but looking at this objectively the story is meh. It's definitely not a 10/10 or even a9/10. If you think so then I’m glad you had fun with it at least.
THANK YOU for mentioning the slim chances of a vaccine even being created. And for questioning why the Fireflys couldn't just wait until Ellie woke up and kept her and Joel around for a while. I think a lot of people forget those things about the first game.
Yes. the game never explains how Ellie and Dina, who were left broken and bloody in a basement, managed to get medical treatment for a man who had been shot in the head. In fact doing it so well it never looked like he got shot in the first place. It's as if the writers couldn't think of a way to get them to the farm so they just never explained it
@@futureflash6331 well I think it probably did by changing his behavior leading to him and his wife splitting up and him wanting nothing but revenge even if Joel would have wanted him to stop.
20:33 "But it all comes as manipulative, like someone donating a bunch of money to charity after getting caught in a scandal." The most perfect way this game and Abby's character can be explained.
4:54 - You know this actually just made me think of something. *_How many Joels that DIDN'T end in Miller are potentially dead because of Magilla Gorilla over here?_* Like, Tommy didn't mention their last name was Miller, but Abby says the full name after she's shot and restrained Joel. I just can't help but imagine her and her cronies doing that same show over and over again every time they came across some guy named Joel. Almost like a routine, lmfao.
I've always been thinking about this myself. Everyone is all like "ah! Joel and Tommy are so dumb! Why are you giving people your name?" Um I'm sorry is there just one Joel in the world? Why is him saying his first name such a big fucking deal?
29:32 An unforgettable forgettable ending explained perfectly. Abby got her revenge & was rewarded for it, Ellie tried getting her revenge and got vilified for it
She's not rewarded for it. She lost all of her friends, every last one. The only thing left for Abby and Lev is that they managed to regroup with the Firefly (that's what the new main screen is saying for me). Following that revenge made Ellie lost Dina and their peacefull life. Ellie breaking the circle is just a way to limitate more disastrous and deathful retaliation.
@@MonsieurDjidane It stops that cycle but there's a possibility that Ellie's PTSD could come back again. I'm saying Abby got rewarded because she was haunted by Joel killing her dad, when she got handed a chance to avenge him....she did with no regrets. Ellie haunted by Joel's murder ever since thirsted for revenge & when she got a chance to put hands on Abby, she let go.....she's going to regret that
Lee Harvey It’s made pretty clear in the game the Abby does regret killing Joel. Pretty sure Ellie would also have regrets about killing Abby if she went through with it as she’s not a total psycho. And Abby also still has nightmares (idk if we can for sure label them PTSD) about finding her dad’s dead body. They both get fucked by their quests for revenge. And Ellie could have been less so if she would have learned to drop it sooner.
You forgot the first Abby vs Ellie fight, which you control Abby in. Surely I’m not the only one who wanted to lose the battle, and if a story-based game makes you wanna fail, they clearly did something wrong. And it’s not the only moment that they forced you to play while you probably didn’t want to. Edit: Autocorrect is shit
I liked the Ellie vs Abby boss fight because I died many times.Which meant that you actually need someone with 9 lives to defeat Ellie which ain't posdible in reality.
I wanted Abby to win and she should of killed Ellie. Ellie killed everyone that Abby loved and know what Abby does beats the shit of Dina and Ellie kills Jesse and shoots Tommy that doesn't make them even but Abby let's them live and Ellie doing some dumb shit she tried and get revenge and can't even do it. If they ever make a third game I would souly want it to be about Abby and Lev.
@@tobebruhed6017 Abby started it though. You expected Ellie to do nothing after Abby killed Joel but that's not what Abby did when Joel killed her dad. That's hypocritical af.
@@BlueSkullX Wrong. Abby was just reacting to Joel killing her father. Abby and Owen stopped the others from killing Ellie and Tommy. Ellie even knew why Abby did what she did but she continued the esculation.
You were utterly savage yet entirely on point. It's hard to call a review like this biased when it has merit. It's even more shocking once you start looking into "why" certain choices were made during development. Certain characters are just there to tick a box, it's sad.
@Patrick Heneghan unfortunately angry Joe is, well, just angry. I watched his play through a bit and he's kinda screaming the whole time, which is annoying. He leaves at some point to let one of his friends play. You can tell he was biased going into this game. His reaction to the sex scene with Abby and Owen is embarrassing to say the least.
This game just didn't feel like anything special, the graphics were beautiful, but damn.. the dialogue and story just killed this game for me and felt more like a chore to play than anything else I didn't hate the game, but I couldn't see myself playing it again
Me too! Idk what about the TLOU1 was, but the first game was just so beautiful. The relationship between Joel and Ellie was so neatly woven that it felt real. In this game, besides the flashback moments, every story beat doesn’t have the same “special” feeling. Everything feels forced from Niel’s perspective of “Ellie+Joel= bad, Abby= good”
The pacing of the gameplay is very unbalanced as well. You face the same number & difficulty of enemies during fights at the beginning of the game (when you have very little gear or skills) as you do at the end of game. That is just stupid. At the beginning you are constantly running out of ammo & supplies. While at the end you just massacre everyone and have an overabundance of everything
@@adam____________ except it actually is a generic game in so many cases. If you got your moneys worth out of it, great, more power to you. I know a lot of people that did. Still doesn't change it's awfully generic in so many places and proudly wears the ever so dubious "action-adventure" cape that was just as meaningful back then as it is today. The only real thing it got going for itself were the pretty damn gorgeous graphics at the time, really showing what the Ps3 was capable of at the end of its lifespan as well as perfectly functional - if bland - gameplay. For once it's zombies, regardless of what you call them or what infected them: they act like zombies, attack like zombies and even transmit the infection like zombies (given we're talking about a fungus) if they don't outright kill you. That is entry-level storywriting on display here and it's never been taken to anything remotely thoughtful either, all the while falling back onto clichees for zombie apocalypse scenarios like smuggling being a common occurance in controlled zones, bandit groups that by no rights should be able to sustain themselves with how many of them there are and things like cannibals tagging along just to round things up. You have the forced end section where the twist (for of course there needs to be a twist) was both really obvious to come and just as uncomprehensible to understand. Why would the doctor need to do an operation that would guaranteed kill Ellie to extract the required genetic material when you could achieve the same thing doing an biopsy, which is _relatively harmless_ when the alternative is certain death? Naughty Dog always had the driving principle of demonizing everyone but the lead characters, so that they are always made out as the good guys even when they had to pull some really dehumanizing stuff themselves. The mechanics on display are a cavalcade of mediocrity as well: forced stealth sections, cover-based shooting, predetermined action setpieces, QTEs and lots and lots of *crafting* which was such a big trend around the time TLoU came out. Not to mention the non-factor Ellie is in the stealth gameplay for as long as you aren't spotted. Which while the alternative would be annoying means that she is no factor in actual gameplay and can lead to more than just a hairline fracture of immersion when she either runs through a tripwire and goes on like nothing ever happened (not even alerting enemies), stands around *in plain view* and nothing comes from it as long as you are careful.
"Losing your backpack means you lose all of your weapons. Even ones kept on a hip holster." Muh boi you are right lol. Hate that crap in many games. (Uncharted series)
They say the game is about forgiveness, then shouldn't Abby forgive Joel instead of hunting him down for 5 years? Hell Ellie hunted Abby for 3 days but she supposed to get over it. 😑😑
@@Augutin-they say the game is about hate, if the first was about love. It’s the best game I’ve ever played, the story Ight but the gameplay is unrivaled. Not even red dead can compare.
"imma force you to kill every single person you met except the one you want" doesn't mean revenge/killing is good. If this was an attempt to call out contradiction then you have failed at doing so.
You clearly didn't play the game considering you can run/sneak past most of the enemies in the game. Hell, it's almost a requirement on survivor difficulty
@@faburos9012 not really, forcing player to do it and then pretend to teach lesson about revenge is quite ironically ignorant and disrespectful to player intelligence... If he gave players multiple choices and ending that would be a different story
I love how nobody touches on the line "it's just Dina being Dina" in regards to her kissing Ellie. First if all, we don't see the dang scene until the very end of the game.. Unless you saw the E3 presentation. Secondly.. Why not actually gives us characterization for Dina? Rather than just saying "Yep! That's Dina for you, player! She's the type of character that would kiss someone shortly after a breakup!" They give us bits and pieces of Dina's personality and backstory while we are search for loot in Seattle, but it's literally just bits and pieces. It's all vague as hell. Literal breadcrumbs.
Well, Dina did that and the characters acknowledge themselves that this is typical for her. That alone tells you so much about her but gamers got so used to misplaced exposition and bad writing that something as efficient and coherent as this is felt as lackluster. Go play Bioshock Infinite - Plothole Boogaloo if you can‘t see good writing when you see it.
@@GOffensive For one, BioShock Infinite sucks mouldy dicks but I'd prefer to play that over this. "oh, Dina just flirts and kisses people". That's not really anything substantive?
Dina was with Ellie for a huge amount of time and not once did she feel interesting whatsoever. So bland and annoying. Every character we met in tlou1 for a short amount of time (like bill or Henry) felt real and believable and interesting. Second game fails to make every character as good as the first one.
Quite frankly, I think Dina as a character just isn't that good regardless of the way she's presented imo. I liked Riley way better. Dina is just a bit meh tbh
13:32 A sin you missed: Ellie learns the location of the aquarium Abby is staying at by torturing Nora, which is odd because Nora didn't have any reason to tell her the truth. Nora could have given Ellie any random location in the entire city and she'd have no way of knowing it was false. But for some reason, Nora actually gives up the correct place.
@@issajj3165 The point i was trying to make is that Nora could've easily lied about Abby's location and Ellie would have no way of knowing it was false. There's reason why torture is seen as a bad method to gain *accurate* informationen.
Walter Wilhelm I understand that but it’s obviously meant to show how Ellie is losing her humanity in her quest for revenge.. We have no idea what happened after she started beating her ass with that pipe lol. Obviously it was gruesome for a person like Ellie who has dozens and dozens of kills to be distraught after just killing Nora. You guys just like to bitch about miniscule shit .
@@issajj3165 I understand the symbolism behind this scene, which is why I think that if Nora had lied it would've further driven home how Ellie's revenge is pointless and self-destructive. And the point of this video is to point out inconsistencies and error, so i feel justified for criticizing this game and its prequel for depicting torture as an efficient way to gain reliable informationen.
Walter Wilhelm Torture has been used since the dawn of time to gain information from sealed lips. It’s used in war all the time . If it wasn’t effective there would be no need for it . The fact is , you guys would rather nit pick the smallest details just to be assholes. The torture worked in this scenario , is torture literally 100% ineffective ? Pretty sure it works on people. We have no idea the type of composure Nora had . It’s not even meant to be this deep lol. Enjoy shit instead of bitching at every little thing. The creator of this video and the comments just prove how miserable you guys are .
My favourite quote about forgiveness : "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." Did Abby say, she is sorry or show any remorse? No? Then no forgiveness from me.
lol, the point is it's hard to forgive someone who isn't even remorseful. But it's necessary to avoid ruining your life over...lets say...an all-consuming vendetta.
With this logic Ellie should have let Joel live a life without his daughter because he said he would’ve done it again making him not remorseful for his actions
Joel's death to abby isn't something to feel remorsed about because of the simple fact that Joel has screwed up humanity, killing the only man capable of making cure, his death is simply a justified murder
@@john52933 Can you even forgive something like that? YOu can let go, so it doesn't destroy you as well, but if you ever sit on the same table with the person who murdered a loved one, something is probably wrong with you as well.
I actually did that!! My friend night the last of us 2 and I just borrowed it from him when he was like I don't wanna play it anymore. I don't even know if he wants it back lol
For sin 45: a month into a pregnancy you wouldn’t even know. Without a pregnancy test, there’s no way of confirming at that point. Periods are irregular for some people which is why most pregnancies aren’t even suspected until 6wks+ with no menstrual cycle. Even a missed period could just be messed up hormones from stress, especially in a situation like she’s in. Most women don’t even think they might be pregnant until they’re 8wks with no period, unless they’re highly regular, and that’s in a much lower stress environment.
True, plus considering that the characters are going through a lot of stressful events and it's probably difficult to access food in order to have proper nutrition, it's very likely that periods would be late or missed. I know someone who went through a big shock and she didn't have periods for several months because of it, which is pretty rare but it can happen. Also, there is no way to confirm a pregnancy after just a month unless pregnancy tests and doctors are available. I remember watching a documentary saying that in medieval times women often didn't know they were pregnant until around the fourth month of pregnancy, when the baby bump was obvious. Even nowadays, some women don't realise they're pregnant until month 2-3 or even later. While I'm really not happy with this game, I don't think that the pregnancy thing deserved getting a sin.
Even today many women have no idea until well into the first trimester. Some women still get their period during pregnancy. Some women don't know until they're literally about to give birth. Basically unless you're trying and actively taking tests every month, you're very unlikely to know until the 6-8 week mark at the very earliest.
@@leonpaelinck Gameplay wise, yes, at least to a large degree. Does become repetitive at some point though as the game is a tad too long for its own good. Having to start all over again with new weapons to upgrade from scratch after the halfway point certainly didn't help. Just like how the environments do little to spice things up as you're basically rethreading the same ground twice over as both Ellie and Abby. Only time there's some variation is in the intro chapter with the snow and the epilogue where we finally see some more color added. I do think that a big reason why the gameplay felt much better in the first game was that it wasn't as long, changed up the environments and towards the latter half they changed it up by putting you in control over 14 year old Ellie. Second game didn't have any of that and especially when they switched to Abby's perspective it started to feel like a chore to play.
“Abby is a horrible person that didn’t deserve Ellie’s compassion. She’s a horrible character that isn’t redeemed no matter what honorable acts you make her do.” The game developers: “Yes”
This shows you can put together a bad plot and don't change the gameplay at all and some people still gonna say it's a masterpiece just because it's a sequel to a good game
7:33 Vulnerable to raiders. In the first game you see the dam getting attacked and it isn't too far of a stretch to think that raiders might want to attack Jackson
While there is a lot to criticise in this game, that point isn't a valid one. It's not infected breaching the walls they need to be prepared to defend against, it's other humans. I love Game Sins but I thought it was understood that it was just for fun, not an actual review of the game; so many of these comments are taking every sin as fact when actually, as is always the case in these videos, a lot of the points raised are actually explained in game. It's not the game I wanted, there are a lot of plot holes that warrant questioning, so I'm definitely not saying "all critics = bigots", but a lot of people criticising really don't seem to have played the game, or didn't understand it if they did, cos rhey seem to be arguing against their own assumptions and it's confusing the hell out of me! Sorry for the rant and going off on a tangent but trying to discuss this game anywhere is become exhausting.
@@cathyannis83 being explained isn't the same as being good. You can explain something, but that doesn't mean the explaination nor the thing is good. That is a fundamental of you're failure to understand that I could explain why trophy hunting has a great effect in saving a species. doesn't mean that its. but to you its good because its explained?
@@shadowywarrior did you read anything I actually said? Are you replying to the wrong comment? What you have extrapolated from my comment bears no relevance to the words I actually wrote.
I heard somewhere once that forgiveness isn’t always for the person you’re forgiving but for yourself. So you can move on. Maybe that’s what they were trying to go for in the end, but I agree, Abby got revenge but suffered no consequence outside of her friends dying, never felt remorse, and was a cold dark person who would’ve killed a pregnant woman with a sneering comment to her lover. You can’t just say “good” to someone when they tell you the person you’re about to kill is pregnant.
When I saw her hanging up on that stake, I was really hoping she was dead. So that the game could still have the same point "ellie gave up everything she had because of her desire for vengeance and in the end, it was all for naught". While at the same time, Abby would be dead. Either that or Abby sees Ellie while she's hanging on the stake and with her dying breath expresses remorse for what she did to Joel and teaches Ellie the lesson that nothing good comes from seeking vengeance. Either of those scenarios would have been solid endings, imo.
she dont say "good" because "ahah it is even worse for you!!" She said "good" because she was thinking "I can do to you the exact same, because she's pregnant too". Abby didnt liked really much Mel but she was trying (owen is the one who fucked up his relationship with Mel, that's not abby. Abby was even mad at Owen and at herself after because he already got Mel and because she was pregnant. That's why she wants him to stay at the aquarium and that's why she feels even more guilty after because it's HER than told him to stay there. Because she wanted to stop doing shit with Owen. But that ruined everything and she must have felt the same feeling than Ellie when Joel died : the feeling of an unfinished relationship. Because of her revenge, she never has loved Owen like she would have wanted to, and because of the lie, Ellie has made so much time to forgive Joel than he died the exact same day they were beginning to come close again). Abby is affected by the death of Owen FOR SURE, but she is also from the death of Mel. Even if you dont really like someone, death is always shocking. Like you say to yourself "he wasnt that bad, that's a shame than he is dead", you cant be happy about it, you just think "what a shame than we didnt liked more each other" the worst part was that Mel was pregnant and she felt guilty because of what she has done with Owen just before So that's why Abby was almost happy than Dina were pregnant. Because she wanted to make suffer Ellie as much as she suffered from the death of Owen, Mel and Manny. And I really think than her friends dying (and sometimes dying because of her decisions) is horrible. Like it isn't small. Everyone she loves is dead at the end... and she didnt only lose her friends. She loses her backpack with all her coins (memories from her dad), she loses her city and her life with the wolves, she had to kill her ex-compagnion, some WLF, to protect Lev, she lost her hair, her muscles, at the end she looks dead and has idk how many sun-burns... she is a litteral dead body... she is getting attacked by Ellie, almost dying while she just wanted to go away with Lev, the last person she got Lev too had lost everything, he needed Abby. Ellie and Abby both end up broken in fact. Abby with her dreams about her dad (they go better with Lev, because she found a reason to fight for). Ellie with her PTSD (that ended too with that last encounter; when she saw how was Abby [she was so miserable than Ellie didnt even killed her on the pillar] and that killing her was meaningless at this state of her journey. She now remember of Joel has a good memories). For both of them, childrens are making them better. Lev for Abby. JJ for Ellie. If everything is right, she got back to Jackson with Dina and JJ and is going to live a peacefull life from now because she finally said goodbye to Joel Abby shouldnt have to feel remorse for what she did (when you only look at her side of the story). She killed Joel because he killed her dad and nothing more, except beating up a bit Tommy and Ellie they didnt kill anybody else and they didnt destroyed Jackson or anything. When Abby killed Jesse and tried to kill Dina Tommy and Ellie, again, from her side, she had good reasons, because Ellie and Tommy killed her friends first (from the point of view of Ellie, it is more complicated, but how was Abby supposed to know? She only saw than they killed her friends and the dog) And we see than when Abby killed Joel, her face was just like "oh. just that. wasnt it a bit useless at the end?" if Ellie and Abby had talked, they bith would have feel guilty. But how could they have talk? They couldnt From her view, Abby shouldnt feel any remorse
Ellie should have just walked up to the stake where Abby was tied, slapped her once to wake her up, said "Remember me, bitch?", then put a bullet in her. Then she should free Lev and fuck off.
Out of all the reasons somebody could want revenge on Joel, they chose the one murder that was the most justified. Killing a doctor who was about to kill a child.
I guess we can skip the part where she would have died peacefully in her sleep and produced a cure that might’ve saved the human race. But I guess it’s hard to justify abortion too when you blatantly call it child murder.
Agreed: Abby being hit in the temple that hard with a hammer would have killed her or given her severe nerve damage to say the least. Also a doctor wanting to kill the only person who showed immunity to the virus would be ridiculous as they'd learn more by studying her as a living specimen.
I don’t understand why the doctor couldn’t have removed a sample of the cordyceps from Ellie, she has fruiting bodies in her head I’m sure a sample wouldn’t have caused severe damage
Marlene knew why Ellie was immune, because her mother was bitten while pregnant. Why didn't she ever follow that lead...? She clearly didn't have any ethics over killing a child, so why would she have ethics over experimenting with other pregnant women 🤔
The problem that I have an issue with when it comes to the whole story of Last of Us series is how the cure was going to be made from Elie but the only way to do so was to cut open her head. This doesn’t make very much sense to me. Now I remember that the fireflies said that they were going to make a vaccine with what they would have got from Elie. That’s not how vaccines work. A vaccine is pretty much has three different types. 1. Is a similar type to whatever your trying vaccinate. 2. Is to use a weaken version of whatever it is. 3. Is a dead version of whatever it is. A vaccine is not a cure sorta to speak as it is more of a means for your immune system to have a means of defense against whatever disease is out there. So if they did cut open Ellie’s head what they would have is a vaccine but for a few people only so they’d have to keep doing the whole head chopping thing to keep make vaccines. Also the zombie outbreak is a fungus not a virus. So a vaccine is probably not going to work. If they were planning on make a different type of cure they could have easily just use Elie’s damn blood. It’s not her brain that’s fighting off the fungus infections it’s her antibodies. So I believe when they were makes this game’s story they didn’t have very much medical knowledge. This is just something I never really like and yes, I know that it’s a video game and it can have its own logic but my problem is that this world is just to damn similar to ours for me to accept that reasoning.
I also wish the game didn't make it seem like the only thing people had to worry about was getting infected by the fungus what about all the other diseases and viruses that would need a cure or vaccine
even if they somehow came up with a cure (for the sake of an argument) whats to stop every evil bastard, criminal, gang member, or raider from busting down the fireflies doors (they were getting their rears handed to them in the first game if i recall) killing them all and hording that crap for themselves? are we to assume they'd be all like " no we must allow the cure so no more fungus chungus" i doubt it.
This game doesn't even expand on that, other than the Joel/Ellie relationship. They could have literally made Abby the daughter of one of the cannibals that Joel killed and the story would be the same.
@@The856crew Also even if you're immune you could still be torn to shreds by the infected which seem capable of living forever in sealed garages, sewers and what not.
I’ve always thought that medicine doesn’t work “let’s dissect someone alive” way now. Biopsy, tests, blood, scans - we have a truckload of non lethal methods to create cure based on immune patients. And it’s not like it is all lost in fully equipped hospital. Aaaaand, Advanced Warfare, of course
It was a very interesting choice to make the main idea of this game that revenge leaves you with nothing but simultaneously making it so the MC doesn't actually get her revenge but is still left with nothing. Meanwhile, the other MC takes revenge for a less justifiable purpose and gets just about the happiest ending she could have asked for.
But she bit Ellie. Ellie was infected again because she got bitten by the clicker. So Abby ends up infected. So I like to think Ellie did end up getting her revenge
@@danisnotonchairs3561 Abby bit Ellie earlier on in the game in the Theatre fight to escape a choke hold I believe. Given that months (or a significant period of time passes before they meet again) and Abby is not already an "infected, then the Abby infection theory, (that Abby could get infected following biting off Ellies fingers at the games climax) is unlikely
SpendingSpice2 I think he means when Ellie got bit by the clicker that was hung upside down at the end, then Abby bit Ellie’s fingers. But I doubt that it would actually infect her.
I mean, Abby did have a bunch of her closest friends brutally murdered because of what she did and now she’s pretty much alone with Lev, sooooo I wouldn’t say she got off Scott free.
Let's not forget to mention Ellies complete lack of appreciation for everything Joel did and went through for her and how much he looks out for her , whilst she just shits all over him
To be fair this was the only good bit of storytelling in the whole game. Elie was willing to forgive him right before he died so she was not thankless for all that he did for her
For me the worst part is the way Jesse's character is treated. His child with Dina is essentially treated like its Ellie's son, and the first epilogue is framed as a family life with Ellie and Dina acting as parents of Jesse's son. Even the PTSD flashbacks Ellie receives after that point doesn't offer the slightest remorse for his loss, and the only reference to Jesse's legacy after that point is his family offering to take Dina in after Ellie left.
I am upset at the fact nobody had remorse for Jesse after his death and it made him seem like he was a worthless character whose on main reason in the game was to be a sperm donor to Dina and die. I actually enjoyed Jesse as a character, and that was a lazy way of him dying. But I’m also proud of Ellie stepped up to be a parent for J.J when he died, and also because of her and Dina being lovers I think it’s obvious she would do that and treat her like her own kid. BUT Jesse didn’t deserve that at all.
This is a small detail, but the state quarters abby collects shouldn't be dated before 1999 (because that's when state quarters began). The 1st coin Abby gets is from 1978.
I agree with Sin 75. Why didn’t they wake Ellie? To me, that makes the doctor look worse. It implies he didn’t want to risk asking her in case she said no, because he was going to operate on her regardless
She was even willing to do it voluntarily, knowing it could kill her. But the point is this "doctor" would slice up his only 'labrat' for a one time only gamble. He had zero proof that this so-called cure could've been made in one go. And would it even be enough?
24:30 there's something you didn't mention after this point. Tommy managed to successfully ambush and lure abby to the rails of the dock but instead of tommy shooting her dead he tries to push her off the side and into the water, which seems pointless since that wouldn't even kill her at all. But on a side note after this game, i would not be surprised if neil got demoted. especially considering he had a hand in unfair dmca take downs.
You missed one at 17:56. Abby asked Mel what Owen thought of her going outside the safe area and Mel replied with, "Why would it be up to Owen?" As if the baby she is holding isn't also Owen's and he shouldn't get a say in whether or not he wants his child's life put in danger.
@@angeldiaz762 Yeah, and killing each other in droves isn't. This game has lesbians, transgenders, bodybuilders, and "vaccine" from a fungus. The offhanded implication of abortion isn't even on the radar with the rest of it. Numbers they have in those "communities", well, I reckon they would slip to inbreeding pretty fast and would have to resort to Eskimo'esque practices like whoring your wife to other tribes or just random familially separate men to sustain population variety. You need AT LEAST 10k people who are as far apart genetically as possible without breaking speciation boundaries to "repopulate". And death rates on those idiots are so hight that I can't imagine getting that many people in one spot without triggering a massacre. Let alone entrusting them with mixing in a way that wouldn't create closed loops in the family tree. As far as I'm concerned - just save the fuss and coat hanger the thing out. People in that universe are all shit anyway.
@DannyO Atleast we still have Tommy. If they want to somewhat redeem themselves they should make a DLC playing as Tommy either going through Seattle from his POV or going to kill Abby, whichever.
@DannyO TBH Abby felt like the Straight White Male American Hero that everyone complains about, but she gets a free pass because she's female. This video basically confirmed a lot of what I thought about this game from the leaked script and that I shouldn't even give it a chance.
Outbreak Day was September 26th, 2013. If Pearl Jam's album released on October 15th (real world), it would mean it never released in TLOU's world due to the outbreak. Which would mean it would be impossible for Joel to know that song (unless he was real good friends with Pearl Jam & heard it early or something)
@@Bruh_Bruh_Bacon The video that I found of it only has just over 50,000 views, though, unless Joel took a trip to Chicago to see them in concert. Sure, it's not impossible, but it's still a massive contrivance that he picked the song with blatant foreshadowing (from a band based in Seattle, no less).
@@Bruh_Bruh_Bacon Well, that sounds more like Neil trying to look up something to retcon a sin. Plus it still doesn't excuse the contrived foreshadowing.
29:31 this part beautifully summarizes why the game failed. I just finished it and I was dumbstruck at how unnecessary Abby is as a character. I genuinely tried to sympathize with her but the logic didn't add up time and time again. One can argue that the same message of the game could've been delivered even better without pushing a new character to the mix. I think it was an overall cheap way to lecture gamers on the importance of perspective (and also revenge bad, mercy good) and whatnot. But I think Druckmann was so focused on that end goal that he lost sight on what made the first installment so great and hence, the game was genuinely trying to be meaningful in my opinion but it fell on deaf ears because the meaning itself is muddy and inconsistant as hell and was forced down my throat.
The big point of contention here is that their moral of "VIOLENCE BAD" is contradicted by Abby getting away with her revenge. Ellie lost everything she held dear and couldn't get her revenge. Abby by contrast got her revenge and if it wasnt for the involvement of the completely unrelated Ratlers Abby wouldve met up with the Firefly survivors and had her happily ever after
If you (and the dense asshat who made this video) think “revenge is bad” is the theme, not trauma, fatherhood, self identity, the philosophy of the ‘other’ and the million other deeper concepts at play, idk what to say
I think the point is that the Ratlers may have been pretending to be fireflies. Seeing as Abbey goes to the place, gives her credentials, and gets punched by Fat Geralt as a reward. So basically, if she just decided to ignore what her ex thought, and Ellie didn't go after her for revenge, she'd have her happily ever after. Even though it's Abbey's actions coming back to haunt her.
A reviewer without hindering nostalgia from the first game or someone who saw the leaks when they hit the net and the outlook is still the same with those who criticize the story. And people say the leaks was the reason the game gets hate. Sure, there are some dumb ass trolls sending death threats to the team from this game and hating the game for the most unethical reasons but that's not the overall audience of those who criticize but they are the loudest and most destructive with their actions. It's okay for people who love the game and got something from it, it really is, but to say it's a masterpiece and the "Schindler's List of games" is an overkill. The gameplay barely improved but everything else like animation, acting, graphics, music, sound design were top notch. A high quality game with subpar gameplay and narrative. This sequel is an average experience with below average writing that was manipulative af to push an agenda that failed. The disconnect with gameplay and story is one of the game's biggest failings. It needed to be an interactive movie format kind of game for the narrative to work with choices imo It's..sad. To see this series fall to this level of poor writing (execution is the worst of it alone with contrived plot devices, downgraded previous characters and everyone being dumb to some degree). The first game had it;s flaws but the story was engaging and well written enough but here the talent from the first is missing and it's clearly apparent. Neil is like the only recognizable name from the first game that I saw credited in the second (a lot of ND talent left due to the awful crunch culture/creative differences) and it shows in the writing. A prime example of graphics aren't everything...especially with a story driven game.
Perfectly summed up how I feel. No body can fairly call this game a MASTERPIECE. I feel half the people that praise this game want to defend it because of how much hates it gets, and others praise it for the clout.
@@AnimeWorld-kf5jm You're absolutely right and because of those reviews the rating inflated ridiculously to a point of comedy; now these review outlets are completely untrustworthy. All these "professional" reviewers definitely did it for clout and/or pity. They probably also do not want to lose early access. If they had given honest/unbias reviews, especially after those leaks, anything critical probably meant closing the doors and blacklisting. Still, despite this it doesn't make it right and even if someone unironically loved the story and unchanged gameplay there's no way they are that blind to its flaws to give it 10/10. I think preordering is even more of a bad idea now because now we can't even trust early access reviews.
Absolutely agree. Screw Abby, I loved Juel and she tortured him in cold blood! The whole plot is crap. I wanna play Joel or Ellie, and have no desire to play Abby but the game makes me do it.
Everyone who seeked revenge in this game got worse off because of it. That's the fucking point of the story. Why say "whendeygetrenvungedurhur" as if its a a win if they do.
hannahallyana you make Joel sound as if he just killed everybody he saw. Sorry, but no. People who try to kill you first aren’t innocent. Joel killed out of the need to survive. The two brothers you meet in the first game are a great example. Joel didn’t kill them, did he? Nope, he let them be, just as they let him and Ellie be.
@@TheLostAtom01 well still he was a hunter or bandit he killed many undeserving, I love Joel but doesn't mean he was a good person, bandits are evil so was joel
@@TheLostAtom01 lmao he admits to have tortured and killed innocent people in the first fucking game. He implies he was expecting for his past to catch up with him when he tells Abby to get it over with and doesn't even bother to ask why. He was someone else's villain. Selectivity is a hella drug lol
You didn't sin ellie when she walked in on joel while seeing him bleeding on the ground with a large woman with a golf club in her hand trying to swing it at him and she didn't shoot first before walking into the room to ask "what's going on" ? The door was open and ahe had a clear shot on abby
There's also the fact that the first game even tries to make us feel like Ellie is unsure to trust Joel's lie about the fireflies; she maybe knew that he was lying but decided to just be understanding. This game just butchered not only everything that happened in the first game, but all of the characters as well. We grew to love Ellie and Joel, but the second game tries so hard to make us hate them it's just dumb.
TLOU 2, in my experience, was a waste of time, money, and hype. I spent a week to beat this game, only for it to be a let down. I would rather die than play that game again. There were a few moments where the game was ok, but to have us play as Abby, the one that killed a character that everyone loved, is stupid. Let alone Naughty Dog lied to us about many things to TLOU 2.
RE: Abby's father - What happened to his oath to do no harm? I'm doing no harm; she'll be under anesthesia while I'm taking her brain out. And no one told Ellie what they were going to do - even if she had consented, she's only 14. Hippocratic/hypocritic.
I kinda thought it's completely okay to kill ellie to save the world. But yea as a doctor he should've considered searching for a third option as well because if he does the operation and it doesn't work, well they ain't gonna find another ellie. Because, imagine. Them saying there aren't any more surgeons like jerry in the world, no way they gonna find another immune person
Adding to the Mel being sent out on missions while pregnant point, she is stated to be their best doctor why the hell would you send you best doctor on patrol missions?
Cause she said that she wanted to. I think it is still iresponsible but it is explaind if you play the game.
Cause empowerment
@@larspeiren2638 that is a horrible reason to go out to war
@@larspeiren2638 do WLF not have leadership? why anyone in their right mind would send 7-8 month pregnant woman on active duty? "she wanted to" is not good enough reason. i thought that was suppose to be sub military organization? who cares that she's the best doctor they have you are pregnant woman! irresponsibile at that, she would be a horrible mother with that attitude
Lars Peiren yeah let’s send a highly trained doctor who’s also pregnant on a patrol mission “because she wanted too”. That just about checks out
Marlene: "Joel has a right to know."
So I'm going to kick him out with no gear after doing this job for me.
@slasherflicks she doesn't care about Joel but she did for Ellie I don't understand what's so difficult to comprehend?
that line is in the first game as well.
@@IDK-eu7dv she actually does care about Joel, she describes him as "the one person who would understand what they're trying to do" in an audio recording in part 1. she just doesn't value his need to protect Ellie over finding a cure.
Apparently just being in disagreement with Joel is enough to be unsympathetic
@@masongarrod6681 honestly pretty much all of the criticisms of the second game seem to be made by people who either didn't play it or weren't paying attention to the complexity of the ending of the first game.
“How did Abby get so many swings before duct taping a pair of scissors to it somewhere?” That got me lmao
Yep
That, plus the “I can’t use a lead pipe more than a few times before it breaks” line was perfect.
@@superlombax1561 plus why is it that golf clubs were introduced in the game just for that one scene and we can't find them anywhere else in gameplay
I was thinking that exact same thing
Dartigan: Joel's only weakness is cutscene ambushes
Joel: (dies to the biggest cutscene ambush in the series)
this game has a new weakness: not being controlled by the player
@@leonpaelinck Even the first game didn't have that weakness.
@@SilentSnake1998 True, Joel/Ellie were invincible if you didn't control them.
@@leonpaelinck Plot Armor: 100
"Her lifespan was nearly as long as the Playstation Vita itself"
Why'd you gotta massacre my boy like that? 😢😢
i still play my vita, that hotline miami girl is the most relatable character
wait.... PS Vita isnt ded
Except ps vita is actually a good system and can be jailbreaked to have literally any game/application you want
@@pieck5460 Nintendo>> sony in handheld consoles.. gtfo
I mean, I have one, but I play my Nintendo 3DS & Hyperkin SupaBoy Hyper Beach; A portable Super Nintendo, more than my PS Vita.
Abby: Who are you?
Joel: My name is Nathan and this is my brother Sam.
*END CREDITS*
cannon.
😂👆 there you go
Lmao
Could anyone link the video where its edited so he says frank I'm trying find ot but cant
@@f.b.lagent1113 lol I wish
"I've been leaving trap mines on my scent trail"
I feel so dumb for not thinking of that during my playthrough
Oh my... I must have missed him saying that so I'm glad I read your comment! I hate killing those damn dogs. That scene with Abby picking up Alice from the dog pens, when she throws the ball for Bear before they leave hurt me. I remember when I killed Bear as Ellie, someone crying out his name, sounding devastated, and my dog is called Charlie Bear so it stuck with me and throwing that ball for him as Abbie made me feel like a total shit!
Catherine Holmes ikr, no one’s out here talking about Bear. I always killed the dogs first as quickly as possible so I could get the pain over with and focus on killing on the people instead of dwelling on what I’ve done. But yeah, the first time I took a dog’s life in this game, I pretty much cried.
Lmao cmone dude it was even in one of the tips in the game
@@cathyannis83 Which is exactly why they included that scene. It's manipulative storytelling. The entire scene is supposed to be a giant moral event horizon where Ellie crosses that line by killing Bear, Mel and Owen-all of whom are portrayed as innocent. They really, REALLY want you to hate Ellie.
@@Cassandra_Solidor oh i know what they were doing, it's just a shame that dog is the only time they got close to the effect they were going for, in my case anyway, and even then it was only really the fact its name was so similar to my beloved old boy that really made it get to me like it did.
“There Was A Sequel Wasn’t As Good”
-Joel Miller
epic self diss.
So true even Joel knew
This game is actually good
@@olschoolTonyCarter nah, dude. Its a woke af cringe fest of a game made by a guy who sniffs his own farts. I hope they fire him, he is one of those people who ruin the gaming industry.
@Frost Taylor wtf
"Finding a razor blade in my salad is subverting my expectations but isn't exactly something I am going to applaud you for "....Golden!!
He got me with that slow night shift at an Arby’s but that ending and the cats fighting was pure Gold. Agreed!
Shit
BZgA the game yes
Yeah, I found it amusing because Neil's clearly such a fan of the tv show, Supernatural. It's obvious he got idea for Last of Us from the Croatoan episodes, which started in Season 2 but were more featured in 2009 when Uncharted 3 was wrapping up production. You can even see an extra dressed in the same garb as Joel in episode 5.4 "The End" where Dean goes to the evil apocalyptic future where zombies (I mean Crotoans infected) are everywhere forcing people to live in settlements. Thankfully the settlement is less Westworld themed.
I'm gonna cry for how they butchered Isaac. He was only cool in the notes referencing him.
“How’s your arm?”
Not there.
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
"how is your arm"
idk, if you want to know you should go back and see it :v
joão soares you just said the same thing he just said , don’t be a smart ass .
This part killed me as well 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Im not going to give you a like, only cause u have 404. Error 404 "not found"
lmao
FAT GERALT.
Never forget.
He tried to save us from the ending.
And would've gotten away with it too if it wasn't for that meddling Ellie
I wanna fat geralt dlc
Jesse was aslo kinda cool
he’s a cool dude, a true alpha
I thought he looked like Guy Fieri. I just imagine that when he's punhcing Lev he's thinking, "Welcome to flavortown, bitch!"
I kinda wish you added a sin for the fact that Marlene asked Abby's dad what he'd do if it was Abby who was immune and he couldn't answer.
It’s a very real question. Why would it be counted a sin?
@@guccii_daddyy Cause Abby's dad couldn't answer.
@@taeminislove ohhh okok
Pretty much cementing that Abby’s dad is an asshole who doesn’t seem to give a shit about putting Ellie’s life in jeopardy considering he has a daughter of his own. So you’d think he’d sympathize and speak to Ellie about what she wants but nope! Just no questions or talks with her, fuck you Abby’s dad.
They could've made an anthology series.
Each game following a new cast of characters in the same world.
Instead we got a Joel in One.
A Joel in one? Damn man.....😂
What they should've done if they wanted this story to work, was make a full- length spin-off game (or something along those lines) with abby as the main protagonist and focusing solely on her story without showing or even mentioning joel and ellie. Naughty Dog has a good reputation when it comes to writing, so i'm sure they would have been able to make us fall in love with abbey the same way were with joel and ellie. The main plot could focus on her trying to meet up with her father, who left to do medical research on the other side of the country. And could've ended right when she reached the hospital. just straight to end credits without showing the aftermath.
The last of us 2 could now play out the same way it did. The moment fans see abby, it would create an intense moment of excitement, suspense and tension because we would be wondering and speculating if she already knows that it was joel who killed her father or if she knows that the guy who saved her is joel and what she was gonna do when she finds out. Furthermore, since we are all presumably in love with her like how we are with ellie, imagine how conflicted we would feel when she kills joel. Not to mention since we would have already played her story, her childhood flashback scenes could've been omitted.
@@tricknick9211 shivers man
Dakhan thank you. That is one of the reasons part 2 is kind of bad. The devs accelerate Abbys story, instead of growing it naturally. It’s like DC movies, they wanted their justice league movie but they didn’t make the other 25 movies first to make it better.
Joel ain't coming back lads.
There’s absolutely no reason to shove the “you’re a murdering bastard” narrative in a game that forces you to kill people *every* step of the way. Only games like Splinter Cell, Thief, or the Metro games (and many more of course) actually give you the opportunity to spare people most of the time.
And yes, I know that the Metro games do force you to kill people in some levels, but at least they don’t make you kill everyone, since you can still get the best moral ending by only killing in those specific levels. This is still more reasonable than never giving you a choice at all.
MGS
In Deus Ex Human revolution/Mankind divided nearly nobody has to die too (By your hand). :D
KaNarcy DaLive1 Yup. Exactly what I was thinking. Mgs 5 doesn’t tell you one way or the other if killing people is bad (except for children) but instead changes snake over time, while saying nothing.
Yeah, it's kinda pointless to put that theme in a apocalyptic world where you kill to survive
MGS also have mandatory combat sections with boss fights. But MGS also doesnt try to make you feel sorry for that as well MGS theme is not about "killing people is bad", heck even Spec Ops:The Line was mostly meta commentary about doing things because you were meant to do then and not "killing bad!" as well having different endings that the player can choose thats a lot more we can say about this game.
i love how these videos were made to be ironic and nitpicky but in this game's case these are actual criticisms that need to be addressed lol
Not really lol
They never were ironic lol
Idk, a lot of them have solid counter-arguments. For example, the guy at 24:38 is not Tommy. Also, It can take about a month or month and a half before someone knows they're pregnant.
@@Robot404_ LMAO, that IS Tommy.
@@Robot404_ Of course that's Tommy, he even has the wound made by Yara, when you see him at the theater (his clothes are thorn in the spot were she hit him).
23:09 "how's your arm"
"not there"
that killed me
I’m so happy someone finally pointed out how the hell they all got back to Jackson despite everything that happened to them
I mean from the get go the story establishes how much of a shit show the plot convenience is gonna be
Nanomachines son.
i really liked TLOU 2, but that part i really didn't understand, lol. dina must have had a serious concussion, ellie's arm was broken, and tommy was shot in the head. who the hell got them out of there? haha
@@jamesliggins891 Jesse did
I loved the game. But that's a really big flaw. In the farm I was expecting to see some pages narrating what happened. But we got... Nothing
16:50 you just absolutely destroyed the entire ending of the first game. Bravo! I absolutely hated this forced conflict. “Kill a child to save humanity” like any rational adult, ESPECIALLY A DOCTOR, wouldn’t immediately search for a third option. Plus if you fail and have to try again: oops, no immune miracle child any more! It’s gone, you killed it! Good job destroying humanity’s last hope for your arrogant conviction that you could create a cure for zombie virus in a garage lab
@@EdinhoN_ another point is that the fireflies have killed a bunch of kids like ellie before and didn't produce anything.
What I never understood was how they got her and wanted to operate to try get a vaccine in less than a day, which is realistically impossible. They’re not really on a time budget, because most of humanity is gone anyway. Also the Marlene inconsistency was really strange. In the second game she felt really reluctant and argued against the surgery, and in the first game she was quick to march Joel out and shoot him if he tried anything.
@@EdinhoN_ But...Neil directed the first game?
Oops nevermind. Neil was the CREATIVE Director, my bad.
Édio Cerati Neto so in the first game the fireflies were a bunch of incompetent bumble fucks trying desperately to make a cure that had no guarantee of actually existing?
This is literally Abby’s game with Ellie on the cover
but none likes abby.
Abby sucked, only liked her infected scenarios
good thing I didn't preorder the game because I was too busy back then
@@v.cutsman4566 I liked Abby the only think she did "wrong" Was kill Joel but he did rig the world of a vaccine and killed Abby's father but I can see why you wouldn't like Abby too.
@@tobebruhed6017 i mean i kinda liked abby but not a lot nice to see someone doesn't fully hate abby
My issue was that the ending of the first game was meant to be this harsh, selfish decision by Joel, choosing to possibly doom the world over letting his adoptive daughter go.
In this game, Abby's motivations aren't fueled by that decision. It's because Joel killed her dad. Abby's dad could've been any random enemy in the first game, him being the doctor had no significance
The first game doesn't make you feel bad for killing people, it makes you feel bad for dooming humanity. But the second game pretends that your "immoral decision" was killing a doctor, not preventing the vaccine.
Facts. Plus in the ending of the TLOU1 We all understand why Joel made that decision
The ending of the first game was supposed to be ambiguous so the player could ponder if he made the right decision or not. We can safely assume Joel was right from content in the first game. They also proceed to retcon the fireflies by painting them as people who actually wanted to help.
@@unknown_individual7050 yeeeah... Especially after they planned to kill joel after,not giving their end of the deal,and generally screwing over joel...
@@unknown_individual7050 assume? Joel did the right thing
yeah honestly I just tought Abby was a former FireFly who just killed joel out of revenge what he did. I was so dissapointed when I found out about her father.
Well, Neil said that players felt "love" from the first game's story, and then they'd get a story about "hate" this time.
Mission was a success and people are angry.
If it's a success then why are they getting angry at fans for calling them out?
Mission failed successfully
@@gaspenpayne6755 They didn't think that far ahead.
He wanted a game about hate and tons of people hate it. Way to go Neil.
... So he's mad his game is getting the reaction he wanted people to have? Amazing.
"Joel's charge was second degree at best. Abby's was definitely in the first degree."
I just noticed this but Abby still has her handgun when she runs away from the WLF. She took the other guy's handgun. She didn't have her own.
And prolonged torture...
Neil Drunkmann: 'I can't understand how people can get so worked up over fictional characters'
Also Neil Drunkmann: 'We care about these characters more than anyone else'
He’s referring to the death threats.
@@Ziaonfilmandtv While the death threats are unforgivable, he is still a hypocrite to say people shouldn't get attached to fictional characters.
@@Kingdom850 why create and humanized said fictional characters for the audience to get attached to and then turn around and say the audience shouldn't care... Only proves how much of a joke Niel is... You wouldn't hear Tolkien, Martin (got), Lucas, or any great writer downplay their work because they fucked up.
Qwankyo exactly
Qwankyo he is not saying people shouldn’t care about these characters. He is saying he doesn’t get how they can “care” enough to go find the actress that voices an ingame character they disliked and wish cancer to her and her family. That’s slightly over the top.
Abby got vengeance, Ellie did not. Abby moved on, while Ellie is left broken. Abby showed no remorse, yet Ellie showed mercy.
dont cry
@@evryfckinnameistaken Nobody's crying. Just explaining why this game sucks.
@@BlueSkullX loool nah, stay triggered
Abby showed mercy to ellie after the theatre fight, did you play the game or you have just watched the ending on youtube?
@@maestroacog3566 Did you not realize that the only reason she did was because Lev had to stop her from killing a pregnant woman on purpose? If Lev didn't show up she would have killed them both. She didn't spare them to "end the cycle". She did it so Lev wouldn't look at her look a monster for killing a pregnant woman who was already unconscious.
I haven't heard anyone bring up the fact that Abby premeditated Joel's murder. I think the subtle difference between premeditated murder vs. 2nd degree murder is something that the writers didn't really think about when they were making this game. If you're going to make a grimdark revenge story like what they TRIED to do here, then it's important to examine these subtleties ESPECIALLY if you want people to sympathize with the murderer as opposed to the loved ones of the murder victim.
The murder on her side has the whole humanity condemned because of Joel as well
Ellie sets out to kill Abby too. While Joel did not set out in the first place specifically to kill Abbys dad on a personal level, he deliberately and knowingly set out to kill them all
i'd say killing the man that doomed humanity is a fairly just thing to do...and yeh it's premeditated, Abby is terrified of him and for good reason, he brutally killed all of the fireflies who were trying to save mankind, people seem to miss that.
I love Joel but if i was Abby i'd want to kill him too, if you really think about it Abby had more of a right to kill Joel than Ellie has to kill Abby. you might not like it but its the truth.
I don't think the Firefly organization's efforts would have succeeded anyway. The zombie infection is a fungal disease & those require MUCH different treatment methods from simple bacterial & viral infections. The idea of a "vaccine" wouldn't have worked either as a result. Vaccines only work for viral & bacterial infections & even then they're no help to those who are already infected. The group would have to find or create some sort of medication that could actually ELIMINATE the spores from a person's body altogether & I don't know if they had the means to do that. In addition, something that neither Joel nor the doctors NEVER did was actually TALK to Ellie about the possibility of having to sacrifice here life before the decision to kill her was made. The fact that the doctors at the very least didn't bother consulting her doesn't paint them in a positive light & can make Joel's murder of them more justified.
Joel killed to save Ellie, and yes it was selfish but it came out of love. Abby tortures Joel for her own satisfaction, kills him and never shows any type of remorse at all even after seeing that she did the same thing Joel did to her.
And about the whole Joel doomed humanity argument, it only works if you accept a lot of inconsistencies. Why is Ellie the only person inmunne? In real life virus scenarios there are always some people that are inmunne, not just one. If Abby's dad had such important knowledge then why not pass it down to Abby or write it down somewhere? Also, Fireflies were never a fully benign organization, they were very grey almost terrorist like. Giving the Fireflies the power of a possible cure could be a mistake. If Abby's dad was such a great doctor then why rush to kill Ellie? They had her for less than a day and yet murder was the only option on the table? Sounds like that doctor was not as good as we thought. I am not justifying Joel killing everyone and being selfish but that whole let's kill the only inmunne person the first day she gets here, was just stupid and could have been just another useless murder. I know the devs just put it there for the whole moral thing, but if your game tries so hard to be realistic then you had to give us solid proof that the fireflies had the power to make a cure.
I was so confused at how Tommy acted in that epilogue.
And when Abby said "good" after learning Dina was pregnant, it completely destroyed all attempts to get us to like her or sympathize with her.
I tried keeping an open mind until the end credits. Not a big fan of the game.
I remember the "good" completly destroying any lil sympathy i had for Abiguail. At least when Ellie killed Mel it was self defense kinda
Not to mention killing Jesse and almost killing Tommy mere minutes before
Imagine the balls Tommy had to have to be the only adult in the situation, coming to a girl he views as a teenager's house and instead of appreciating that he, Ellie, Dina and JJ are alive. He guilt trips Ellie into seeking revenge for him. He's supposed to be the adult in this situation. Not to mention how many 180's he did with what he wanted throughout the game. Someone actually pointed out Tommy was the real villain of the game.
@@nokturnallex2160 you really didn't get the game did ya ?
@@nokturnallex2160 I'm not gonna explain everything but characters change over time , Tommy was conflicted just like any other human being would be , he couldn't let it rest . You guys criticize the game a lot but it's really a masterpiece . I was coming from a place where I hated that game before it came out but now I see , everybody was wrong
One of my biggest issues with the game - imagine you’re driving home, you stop at a gas station and you get a call from a close person and he / she tells you that one of your family members has just died, as you’re about to enter your car, some random guy asks you if you can help him change his tire - this random guy can be the best human that ever lived - you’re probably won’t help him, cause currently you don’t care about him and want to be with people you do care about. Simillar situation is in this game - we follow Ellie throughout almost entire first game, for the first half of second game, we care about her, her story, her problems, her friends etc. We then have to put all of that on hold and start focusing on Abby (who we most likely hate because of what she did to Joel) her friends, her story, her problems etc. Just how exactly are we supposed to emphatise with her if much more beloved character is in tough situation herself? PS before someone misinterpets my comment - no I’m not saying that playing as different character for few hours is the same as losing a loved one, I’m saying that we care about someone more than someone else.
Seriously. It’s a real shame Bruce didn’t work on this game with Neil. It explains why the game is horribly depressing and that nothing really good comes out of the game.
Neil has a lotta shit ideas. Remember when he wanted Sam to kill Nate at the end of Uncharted 4? 🤷
@@sebastianriz4703 Really that was his idea?? Lol. Also true; Bruce held Neil back. This time there was nobody to tell him otherwise...
Yeah this sums it up perfectly
Sebastian Riz wait that was a thing
*Abby Never did anything to redeem her murder of Joel in my eyes, and the devs could only come up with pairing her with a cute kid and hope that the first game's magic would rub off on her . Forgiving someone who loved you and who you loved back over a Lie is a far cry different from forgiving someone you never knew who showed uo one day and tortured someone you loved to death , destroyed your entire world and who never once sought forgiveness or showed remorse.*
*i undrestand the game's message that revenge is bad,but it really only comes across as bad when Ellie is the one seeking it.Abby got her vengeance, it was practically served up to her on a silver plate , she was never once sorry for it and wasn't punished for it to the same degree.*
i could feel Dartigan's frustration over what this game turned out to be and felt like he was actually one of the fans that waited 7 years for a much greater disappointment than the trailers have shown , even tough he was so objective avoiding to be biased
Everyone should be upset. We were lied to and told to sympathize with someone who we don't know and killed someone who mattered to us in the first game, and not just killed but brutalized. Even if you didn't care for the first game that's outrageous.
She killed the man who killed her father. Yeah, torturing him wasn't right and maybe she could show some remorse for allowing herself to go that far but she does suffer through the game though. Saying she doesn't is just blinding oneself from what actually happened in the game.
Zapphoman she suffers because she pets a dog that dies later on? She suffers because she slams pregnant mels boyfriend? Is there any other things that happen that were shoved in your face? I can’t remember, this game was so forgettable
@@geraldmorgan9302 so forgettable but you remember those things? All of the people who helped her with Joel's murder die, including Owen who she cared most about? She gets taken by slavers and hung on a post for who knows how long, where she wastes away into a husk of what she used to be?
Zapphoman ah those are the things, thanks for reminding me. I’m sure I’ll forget in a couple days
29:00
I'm surprised you didn't sin any of the buhjillion times people fell from heights, or took hits, that should've killed them.
Like Lev taking that Falcon Punch into the garage door from Fat Geralt.
#FatGeralt4Life
🤟
Got knocked the FUG out LMAO
@@futureflash6331
I laughed and had to watch that scene several times.
Not because I wish harm to Lev. But because there was no way Lev should've survived that, unscathed.
It was unintentionally funny in such a continually dour game.
That punch was literally a 1-way ticket to always wearing a helmet, no sharp utensils, and perpetual drooling.
@@notacompleteidiot...1285 Bro that was the one moment aside from the flashbacks I actually liked in this game call me what you will but that was funny af someone even replayed the video and saw that our boi actually bullcharged him, he actually built up his speed and put it into his punch that just made it even funnier lol
i'm ok wih people surviving falls, it fits my suspention of disbelieve, barely but does. what doesn't fit is mel. 7-8 month pregnant woman would NEVER be on the active duty in real life. 7-8 pregnant woman that falls from hights, goes through car crash, and freaking slams her belly into a wall when jumping!
Nah he's more like the Ultimate Warrior or Kevin Nash
Evangelion fans: "This anime isn't about giant space robots"
TLOU2 fans: "This game isn't about killer fungal zombies"
Well to be fair to Evangelion they are not giant space robots, they are cyborgs.
@Ethan Roberts Cyborgs born from a giant from space.
Evangelion fans are right though, it was about depression from the pitch. i've seen the original documents.
"Her lifespan was nearly as long as the Playstation Vita itself."
This is pure, unfiltered comedic gold! lol
My 17yo daughter asked what that was as she watched me play LoU2 and I told her the PS Vita, which she said she'd never heard of. I told her that's cos there's more people playing on a PS Vita in the LoU2 than I've ever actually seen in real life!
@@cathyannis83 I got, and I still use, a PSVita since 2014 😳
I shot the doctor in the foot in the first game, so I didn’t kill him. Still, the second game makes him die. Wtf
You can do that?
why would you not do that?
He dies automatically no matter where you shoot him
I didn’t shoot him at all,luckily my Joel never dies because I didn’t buy that Part II bullshit.
And the doctor is black, but in the second game he's white. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT
Ellie also had a gun on her during the final fight and could have ended it then and there but chose to fight tired and wounded
I think she just wanted to prove that she could beat Abby in a fair fight. I at least found that part satisfying.
sonofkabisch well as fair as she could get. Abby was left there starving for a good long while and Ellie is still injured but is still able to kill basically the entirety of the group. So I’d say Ellie was in slightly better shape, so it wasn’t entirely fair, plus Ellie has a knife for half the fight.
I also love how Ellie could barely walk making her way to a starved abby, yet they both suddenly can go into a full on fist fight..
Nick yeah there’s this thing called adrenaline, crazy right?
Nick i mean...if your gonna call that out, you also have to point out how Joel survives being impaled in the first game.
While I like ideas this game seems to try and play with like Ellie self-destructing on revenge and knowing that she'll never have the closure she wanted regarding Joel and his murder, I'm with Dartigan on how it really underminds them with how they handled Abby.
-
Abby pretty much got what she wanted with Joel's death, never once felt remorse for it, and was even given a really ham-fisted attempt at making her sympathetic when in reality it just showed how messed up she really is. The devs could have at least given her a moment where she realized that her friends' deaths were all her fault and (like Ellie during their final fight) realized how revenge had brought them all full circle to the exact same situation that caused all this.
But Abby DID feel remorse. That's why she went back to save the kids - she felt like it was a way to redeem herself, at least in her own eyes. She did get her revenge, but it didn't make her feel better. She still had nightmares about her dad's death.
Abby lost everyone she cared about killed either by Ellie or Tommy. She maybe got her revenge but aint cheap. And she in her 20's, do u think she cant atone for Joel murder? In your eyes Joel atone for his 20 years of bad life in just 1 game. & dont call me Abby fan cuz i m not. I still prefer Joel & Ellie.
I agree with your statement wholeheartedly! 🖐 felt the same thing and this is coming from a college student studying creative writing!
@@Woodesies This is the best comment I've seen on this video. Bra-fucking-vo
@@SavagePatch115 agreed
What’s funny about this world is that after the outbreak there is only one existence per each name. So you’re telling me that there’s only one Joel?!?!? Lol
Well the only Joel that I know in real life is Joel Edgerton.
I mean, how many Joels with brothers named Tommy are there in a small community, who react to you mentioning the surname Miller?
uh, yes. there's only one joel miller in jackson with a brother named tommy
The problem with that scene is that Abbys group went across the country to find a Tommy but dont react to Tommy saying his name
Tommy: "I'm Tommy, this is my brother Jo-"
Joel: "Jerry. My name is Jerry!"
Abby: *tackle hug* "Dad! I thought you died!"
Joel: "...Fuck."
They Laugh At Us Part II .
"That's a slow night shift at Arby's."
Sounds like every Arby's shift these days
Do employees always have sex there everyday?
@@blackjack67576 😂😂
Honestly, I feel like if Ellie had saved Lev and Yara and helped them instead of Abby, and established Ellie and Lev as a Joel and Ellie type of relationship it would've made more sense, and rewarded Ellie for not pursuing her revenge.
EDIT: I don't mean for Abby to be taken off completely, yes play as Abby but actually let her show remorse as a way to redeem her if they wanted to redeem her. And Ellie would still lose almost everything(family, friends) but Lev. And Abby would lose a lot too, but maybe Owen should live? I just like happy endings, or at least bittersweet
This right here
That's brilliant. I agree . Wished they had done it. It would have made more sense
Yes!
and in doing so the game would lose basically everything that makes it unique and interesting.
Zachary Griffith how
Two more sin to add: Mel's characters (pregnant girl) who was "upset" over Joel's murder, clearly agreed to going along with the road trip of revenge, and she knew she was pregnant, once again putting her unborn baby at risk by traveling across country to maybe get a chance at assasinating Joel, while fighting through a harsh winter on horseback and fighting off zombies.
They also write Mel to be upset over Joel's murder, with the other character commenting "she's not like us" so when Mel is berating Abby for being a horrible violent person, the writers forget that Mel wanted to then murder Ellie and Tommy, Mel wanted to MURDER the girl screaming in horror over Joel's death,(watch Joel's murder again, the version from Abby's perspective) and it's only Owen and Abby who show compassion to the other two victims and let them live. So murderous Mel, who is willing to murder an innocent girl who they just pinned to the floor to watch her loved one be beaten to death, is criticizing Abby's morals, and is upset over the event. This story was clearly written compartmentalized, and over a long period of time, and changed around often. The amount of contrivances and inconsistencies are all over the place.
Yeah... "10/10"
I hadn't seen that brought up at all or realized holy shit
@@tomasdelcampo2 I know, right? After watching this video I never realized how much convoluted crap I missed.
At least the gameplay, scenery, foraging for supplies is fun.
Also, I find it strange that Mel wasn't showing in Wyoming, but she looked ready to pop in Seattle.
@@youkolvr8922 Yup. About one month later. We go from Owen revealing that Mel just diagnosed herself as pregnant to smuggling a melon in under one month!
@José Ferreira they say it takes the same amount of effort as biting a carrot to bite off someone's pinky
29:32 Dude you summarized EXACTLY what I hated about the ending
You forgot to sin the existence of Manny, a character that's just there for diversity sake, and is a walking stereotype.
But killing manny removes a sin so nothing changed to the sin count
@@SolracNexus Fair enough.
Not only that but he also spit on joel, what a bastard
Hey just like Lev...like seriously imo hes just in this game to say, "we have a trans male character LOVE US"
For real, all he does is eat burritos and say pendejo, wtf
“Everything Wrong with TLOU1 video:” *exists*
Everyone: dare you insult a masterpiece!!!!
“Everything Wrong with TLOU2 video:” *exists*
Everyone: How is this video only 30 minutes long?
Thats the same exact thing i noticed. When its a game they don't like thats when they accept criticism
@@stupidcowboi3350 Well this game is far worse than the first one. Everyone with a few brain cells knows that
GT UnanimousSeven oh I know that. I wasn’t saying the game was a masterpiece or even good. Just a funny observation.
@@drd2121 Yeah I know that you agree. I was mostly talking to stupid cowboi, his name really suits him
Bc this guy got lazy. I mean seriously he could’ve done better
This was THE most honest review this game had so far.
How were others any less ‘honest’? Lmao do you know what that word means
@@shahrezaziz3264 when game journalists give this game a 10/10 even though there's clear evidence of marketing deception, emotional scenes just because Naughty Dog wants you to feel a certain way, and let's not even talk about the fact that there is a clear bias in professional game reviewers because Battle For Bikini Bottom has low reviews because it's slightly inconvenient to complete a puzzle. Meanwhile, TLOU2's accessibility settings make the game extremely easy and thus despite the terrible story the game has 10/10's across the board. I'm not saying that people who give the game a high rating are wrong for their opinions, the game has incredible graphics for one, I'm just saying that the game doesn't make sense if you look at it closely but it still has highly rated reviews from almost about everyone. Personally I think that taking this game apart and really thinking about what happens is the best way to think about whether or not it deserves a high or low rating, but that's just me.
Emanuel Roberts Emanuel Roberts umm what?? Marketing deception is very prevalent in all kinds of stuff today, marvel movies most of all and people don’t seem to have a problem. Emotional scenes because they want you to feel a certain way??? Bruh... isn’t that the point of any emotional scene in anything ever?? Dramatic media and other media in general is literally designed to emotionally manipulate audiences to feel one thing or the other???? And you say it has 10/10s despite the ‘terrible story’ but then also say people have opinions. How are their opinions of it being a masterpiece invalidates when you don’t feel the same way??? A lot of people I’ve personally met who played the game pretty objectively loved it too, as did I, and quite a few disliked it as well. Doesn’t make any one opinion more honest than the other, so not quite sure what you’re on about
@@shahrezaziz3264 just because it's prevalent doesn't make it ok + this game cost waaaaaaaaaay more than any Marvel movie
Shahrez Aziz truthfully the game was at most a 6 or 7 at best the story is what brought it down. I’m thankful for the accessibility settings because of my disabilities but looking at this objectively the story is meh. It's definitely not a 10/10 or even a9/10. If you think so then I’m glad you had fun with it at least.
THANK YOU for mentioning the slim chances of a vaccine even being created. And for questioning why the Fireflys couldn't just wait until Ellie woke up and kept her and Joel around for a while. I think a lot of people forget those things about the first game.
Also, why wouldn't Abby understand the motivation even a little bit?
Even if a vaccine was created it wouldn't do jack shit. The infection is like the least dangerous thing in the second game.
Plus how the hell are you going to distribute and manufacture a lot of vaccines.........they hardly have the technology nor the manpower to do it
@@noorulhasan4904 Not to mention it’s been 20 years at that point and the world’s already dead. Meaning it’s too late for a vaccine anyway.
That’s mainly because the people who support this game are mainly people who haven’t played the first and just went to the second.
I've been looking forward to this!
yr tellin me
Saaaame
Count Dooku!
for sure did we
BOUT DAMN TIME😤😤😤
Abby: “Hows your arm?”
Dartigan: “Not there.”
Me:🤣🤣🤣
Yea, I said something about that too. I was anticipating the woman to make a joke about it everytime someone asked.
26:08
“Tommy survives this.”
HE DOES?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Yes. the game never explains how Ellie and Dina, who were left broken and bloody in a basement, managed to get medical treatment for a man who had been shot in the head. In fact doing it so well it never looked like he got shot in the first place. It's as if the writers couldn't think of a way to get them to the farm so they just never explained it
He did... Apparently getting shot from that angle only cost him an eye
@@hoangdung7494 yeah with no brain damage LMFAO
@@futureflash6331 well I think it probably did by changing his behavior leading to him and his wife splitting up and him wanting nothing but revenge even if Joel would have wanted him to stop.
Type1Eagle where did it mention he split up with his wife?
20:33 "But it all comes as manipulative, like someone donating a bunch of money to charity after getting caught in a scandal." The most perfect way this game and Abby's character can be explained.
4:54 - You know this actually just made me think of something.
*_How many Joels that DIDN'T end in Miller are potentially dead because of Magilla Gorilla over here?_*
Like, Tommy didn't mention their last name was Miller, but Abby says the full name after she's shot and restrained Joel. I just can't help but imagine her and her cronies doing that same show over and over again every time they came across some guy named Joel. Almost like a routine, lmfao.
*_"My name is Abby Anderson, you killed my father, PREPARE TO DIE!"_*
Manny: *_"PENDÉJO!"_*
Abby got information about Jole after he traded with someone.. I'm sure they probably gave her a description of him...🤷🏽♂️
I've always been thinking about this myself. Everyone is all like "ah! Joel and Tommy are so dumb! Why are you giving people your name?"
Um I'm sorry is there just one Joel in the world? Why is him saying his first name such a big fucking deal?
Well, thet knew that Joel had a brother named Tommy in Jackson. I don’t think there are many Joels and Tommy’s in Jackson
Owen: "That was the 9th Joel this week."
Abby: "10 time's the charm!"
29:32 An unforgettable forgettable ending explained perfectly. Abby got her revenge & was rewarded for it, Ellie tried getting her revenge and got vilified for it
She's not rewarded for it. She lost all of her friends, every last one. The only thing left for Abby and Lev is that they managed to regroup with the Firefly (that's what the new main screen is saying for me). Following that revenge made Ellie lost Dina and their peacefull life. Ellie breaking the circle is just a way to limitate more disastrous and deathful retaliation.
@@MonsieurDjidane It stops that cycle but there's a possibility that Ellie's PTSD could come back again. I'm saying Abby got rewarded because she was haunted by Joel killing her dad, when she got handed a chance to avenge him....she did with no regrets. Ellie haunted by Joel's murder ever since thirsted for revenge & when she got a chance to put hands on Abby, she let go.....she's going to regret that
I suppose that's a simple minded person's way of summarizing the game, yes.
Lee Harvey It’s made pretty clear in the game the Abby does regret killing Joel. Pretty sure Ellie would also have regrets about killing Abby if she went through with it as she’s not a total psycho. And Abby also still has nightmares (idk if we can for sure label them PTSD) about finding her dad’s dead body. They both get fucked by their quests for revenge. And Ellie could have been less so if she would have learned to drop it sooner.
@@daveg1916 narcissistic much
You forgot the first Abby vs Ellie fight, which you control Abby in. Surely I’m not the only one who wanted to lose the battle, and if a story-based game makes you wanna fail, they clearly did something wrong. And it’s not the only moment that they forced you to play while you probably didn’t want to.
Edit: Autocorrect is shit
Yea I let Ellie kill me the first time but didnt get frustrated when she killed me the other times either.
I liked the Ellie vs Abby boss fight because I died many times.Which meant that you actually need someone with 9 lives to defeat Ellie which ain't posdible in reality.
I wanted Abby to win and she should of killed Ellie. Ellie killed everyone that Abby loved and know what Abby does beats the shit of Dina and Ellie kills Jesse and shoots Tommy that doesn't make them even but Abby let's them live and Ellie doing some dumb shit she tried and get revenge and can't even do it. If they ever make a third game I would souly want it to be about Abby and Lev.
@@tobebruhed6017 Abby started it though. You expected Ellie to do nothing after Abby killed Joel but that's not what Abby did when Joel killed her dad. That's hypocritical af.
@@BlueSkullX Wrong. Abby was just reacting to Joel killing her father. Abby and Owen stopped the others from killing Ellie and Tommy. Ellie even knew why Abby did what she did but she continued the esculation.
You were utterly savage yet entirely on point. It's hard to call a review like this biased when it has merit.
It's even more shocking once you start looking into "why" certain choices were made during development. Certain characters are just there to tick a box, it's sad.
@Patrick Heneghan unfortunately angry Joe is, well, just angry. I watched his play through a bit and he's kinda screaming the whole time, which is annoying. He leaves at some point to let one of his friends play. You can tell he was biased going into this game. His reaction to the sex scene with Abby and Owen is embarrassing to say the least.
This game just didn't feel like anything special, the graphics were beautiful, but damn.. the dialogue and story just killed this game for me and felt more like a chore to play than anything else
I didn't hate the game, but I couldn't see myself playing it again
Me too! Idk what about the TLOU1 was, but the first game was just so beautiful. The relationship between Joel and Ellie was so neatly woven that it felt real. In this game, besides the flashback moments, every story beat doesn’t have the same “special” feeling. Everything feels forced from Niel’s perspective of “Ellie+Joel= bad, Abby= good”
Your loss ig but damn not anything special ? You kinda have to admit that it’s far from being a generic game
The pacing of the gameplay is very unbalanced as well. You face the same number & difficulty of enemies during fights at the beginning of the game (when you have very little gear or skills) as you do at the end of game. That is just stupid. At the beginning you are constantly running out of ammo & supplies. While at the end you just massacre everyone and have an overabundance of everything
Same, i didn't hate it, but i can't bring myself to play it again and i think it's mostly because of the 10 hour forced Abby part
@@adam____________ except it actually is a generic game in so many cases. If you got your moneys worth out of it, great, more power to you. I know a lot of people that did.
Still doesn't change it's awfully generic in so many places and proudly wears the ever so dubious "action-adventure" cape that was just as meaningful back then as it is today. The only real thing it got going for itself were the pretty damn gorgeous graphics at the time, really showing what the Ps3 was capable of at the end of its lifespan as well as perfectly functional - if bland - gameplay.
For once it's zombies, regardless of what you call them or what infected them: they act like zombies, attack like zombies and even transmit the infection like zombies (given we're talking about a fungus) if they don't outright kill you. That is entry-level storywriting on display here and it's never been taken to anything remotely thoughtful either, all the while falling back onto clichees for zombie apocalypse scenarios like smuggling being a common occurance in controlled zones, bandit groups that by no rights should be able to sustain themselves with how many of them there are and things like cannibals tagging along just to round things up. You have the forced end section where the twist (for of course there needs to be a twist) was both really obvious to come and just as uncomprehensible to understand. Why would the doctor need to do an operation that would guaranteed kill Ellie to extract the required genetic material when you could achieve the same thing doing an biopsy, which is _relatively harmless_ when the alternative is certain death? Naughty Dog always had the driving principle of demonizing everyone but the lead characters, so that they are always made out as the good guys even when they had to pull some really dehumanizing stuff themselves.
The mechanics on display are a cavalcade of mediocrity as well: forced stealth sections, cover-based shooting, predetermined action setpieces, QTEs and lots and lots of *crafting* which was such a big trend around the time TLoU came out. Not to mention the non-factor Ellie is in the stealth gameplay for as long as you aren't spotted. Which while the alternative would be annoying means that she is no factor in actual gameplay and can lead to more than just a hairline fracture of immersion when she either runs through a tripwire and goes on like nothing ever happened (not even alerting enemies), stands around *in plain view* and nothing comes from it as long as you are careful.
“That’s a slow night at Arby’s” had me dead
Sarcastickz you and me both
That's their whole relationship for you it's so shallow it's not even funny
I bet Ellie's fingers hurt.
😂
@@ninodeoliveira5854 Especially when in that salt water, unless they were in fresh water.
"Losing your backpack means you lose all of your weapons. Even ones kept on a hip holster."
Muh boi you are right lol. Hate that crap in many games. (Uncharted series)
Both uncharted and the last of us were made by the same game studio, so I am not surprised that this happens in uncharted as well.
The Devs message for this game was "Ellie must suffer, Praise Abby, she can do no wrong".
Abby even got Joel's fight moves...
Yeah that's pretty much it
Pretty much
Abby is everything Joel was but better. She's smarter, younger, has huge muscles and is morally superior in every way.
@@BoleDaPole ok Niel Drunkmann😊
They say the game is about forgiveness, then shouldn't Abby forgive Joel instead of hunting him down for 5 years? Hell Ellie hunted Abby for 3 days but she supposed to get over it. 😑😑
The thing about this is that Ellie is a good person and Abby isn't, so for them to do the same things would be a detriment to Ellies character
Who says this game is about forgiveness? "they" are the people who crafted the narrative, but ND/Drukmann never said that.
@@Zapdos97then you didn’t get a point the game makes, there are no good or bad people in the world.
@@Augutin-they say the game is about hate, if the first was about love.
It’s the best game I’ve ever played, the story Ight but the gameplay is unrivaled. Not even red dead can compare.
Neil: "revenge is bad"
Also Neil: "imma force you to kill every single person you met except the one you want"
Nice game design...
"imma force you to kill every single person you met except the one you want" doesn't mean revenge/killing is good. If this was an attempt to call out contradiction then you have failed at doing so.
You obviously never played the game since you dont need to kill many people
You clearly didn't play the game considering you can run/sneak past most of the enemies in the game.
Hell, it's almost a requirement on survivor difficulty
@@bloodmime tell that to the cutscenes... Those random npcs in open world were just there to drag out the game time...
@@faburos9012 not really, forcing player to do it and then pretend to teach lesson about revenge is quite ironically ignorant and disrespectful to player intelligence... If he gave players multiple choices and ending that would be a different story
I love how nobody touches on the line "it's just Dina being Dina" in regards to her kissing Ellie.
First if all, we don't see the dang scene until the very end of the game.. Unless you saw the E3 presentation. Secondly.. Why not actually gives us characterization for Dina? Rather than just saying "Yep! That's Dina for you, player! She's the type of character that would kiss someone shortly after a breakup!"
They give us bits and pieces of Dina's personality and backstory while we are search for loot in Seattle, but it's literally just bits and pieces. It's all vague as hell. Literal breadcrumbs.
Agreed. They spent more time on their literal Frankenstein character (1 Model's face, 1 Model's body, and 1 Model's voice)
Well, Dina did that and the characters acknowledge themselves that this is typical for her. That alone tells you so much about her but gamers got so used to misplaced exposition and bad writing that something as efficient and coherent as this is felt as lackluster. Go play Bioshock Infinite - Plothole Boogaloo if you can‘t see good writing when you see it.
@@GOffensive For one, BioShock Infinite sucks mouldy dicks but I'd prefer to play that over this. "oh, Dina just flirts and kisses people". That's not really anything substantive?
Dina was with Ellie for a huge amount of time and not once did she feel interesting whatsoever. So bland and annoying. Every character we met in tlou1 for a short amount of time (like bill or Henry) felt real and believable and interesting. Second game fails to make every character as good as the first one.
Quite frankly, I think Dina as a character just isn't that good regardless of the way she's presented imo. I liked Riley way better. Dina is just a bit meh tbh
"You can jump"
Ign 10/10
13:32
A sin you missed: Ellie learns the location of the aquarium Abby is staying at by torturing Nora, which is odd because Nora didn't have any reason to tell her the truth. Nora could have given Ellie any random location in the entire city and she'd have no way of knowing it was false. But for some reason, Nora actually gives up the correct place.
Damn as if there isn’t a such thing as torture .
@@issajj3165 The point i was trying to make is that Nora could've easily lied about Abby's location and Ellie would have no way of knowing it was false. There's reason why torture is seen as a bad method to gain *accurate* informationen.
Walter Wilhelm I understand that but it’s obviously meant to show how Ellie is losing her humanity in her quest for revenge.. We have no idea what happened after she started beating her ass with that pipe lol. Obviously it was gruesome for a person like Ellie who has dozens and dozens of kills to be distraught after just killing Nora. You guys just like to bitch about miniscule shit .
@@issajj3165 I understand the symbolism behind this scene, which is why I think that if Nora had lied it would've further driven home how Ellie's revenge is pointless and self-destructive.
And the point of this video is to point out inconsistencies and error, so i feel justified for criticizing this game and its prequel for depicting torture as an efficient way to gain reliable informationen.
Walter Wilhelm Torture has been used since the dawn of time to gain information from sealed lips. It’s used in war all the time . If it wasn’t effective there would be no need for it . The fact is , you guys would rather nit pick the smallest details just to be assholes. The torture worked in this scenario , is torture literally 100% ineffective ? Pretty sure it works on people. We have no idea the type of composure Nora had . It’s not even meant to be this deep lol. Enjoy shit instead of bitching at every little thing. The creator of this video and the comments just prove how miserable you guys are .
My favourite quote about forgiveness : "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."
Did Abby say, she is sorry or show any remorse? No? Then no forgiveness from me.
lol, the point is it's hard to forgive someone who isn't even remorseful. But it's necessary to avoid ruining your life over...lets say...an all-consuming vendetta.
No its not. Stop making shit up. Are you saying families are in the wrong for forgiving their loved ones killers in courts? Grow up
With this logic Ellie should have let Joel live a life without his daughter because he said he would’ve done it again making him not remorseful for his actions
Joel's death to abby isn't something to feel remorsed about because of the simple fact that Joel has screwed up humanity, killing the only man capable of making cure, his death is simply a justified murder
@@john52933 Can you even forgive something like that? YOu can let go, so it doesn't destroy you as well, but if you ever sit on the same table with the person who murdered a loved one, something is probably wrong with you as well.
Buying Spongebob Rehydrated for $29.99 instead, minus 1 million sins to those gamers.
I actually did that!! My friend night the last of us 2 and I just borrowed it from him when he was like I don't wanna play it anymore. I don't even know if he wants it back lol
The day I finished TLOU 2, I bought Spongebob to cheer me up. Hands down 10x the game TLOU 2 will ever be
For sin 45: a month into a pregnancy you wouldn’t even know. Without a pregnancy test, there’s no way of confirming at that point. Periods are irregular for some people which is why most pregnancies aren’t even suspected until 6wks+ with no menstrual cycle. Even a missed period could just be messed up hormones from stress, especially in a situation like she’s in. Most women don’t even think they might be pregnant until they’re 8wks with no period, unless they’re highly regular, and that’s in a much lower stress environment.
True, plus considering that the characters are going through a lot of stressful events and it's probably difficult to access food in order to have proper nutrition, it's very likely that periods would be late or missed. I know someone who went through a big shock and she didn't have periods for several months because of it, which is pretty rare but it can happen. Also, there is no way to confirm a pregnancy after just a month unless pregnancy tests and doctors are available. I remember watching a documentary saying that in medieval times women often didn't know they were pregnant until around the fourth month of pregnancy, when the baby bump was obvious. Even nowadays, some women don't realise they're pregnant until month 2-3 or even later. While I'm really not happy with this game, I don't think that the pregnancy thing deserved getting a sin.
Even today many women have no idea until well into the first trimester. Some women still get their period during pregnancy. Some women don't know until they're literally about to give birth. Basically unless you're trying and actively taking tests every month, you're very unlikely to know until the 6-8 week mark at the very earliest.
You know this game is bad and everyone hates it when you see Dartigan’s like/dislike ratio in the extreme positives lmao
Give it a day or so. People are going to whine that he had flaws with the story.
@@xacmashe3852 That's still not going to change the ratio. Good or bad, the game was meant to piss people off and succeed.
Imagine waiting years and years waiting for this game to come out only for the sequel to just be a Netflix movie with interaction
Lol whut? The gameplay of this game is good in what it does. Gameplay wise this is an amazing game
@@leonpaelinck Gameplay wise, yes, at least to a large degree. Does become repetitive at some point though as the game is a tad too long for its own good. Having to start all over again with new weapons to upgrade from scratch after the halfway point certainly didn't help. Just like how the environments do little to spice things up as you're basically rethreading the same ground twice over as both Ellie and Abby. Only time there's some variation is in the intro chapter with the snow and the epilogue where we finally see some more color added. I do think that a big reason why the gameplay felt much better in the first game was that it wasn't as long, changed up the environments and towards the latter half they changed it up by putting you in control over 14 year old Ellie. Second game didn't have any of that and especially when they switched to Abby's perspective it started to feel like a chore to play.
“Abby is a horrible person that didn’t deserve Ellie’s compassion. She’s a horrible character that isn’t redeemed no matter what honorable acts you make her do.”
The game developers: “Yes”
Ellie should have just shot her right there at the stake.
The game developers didn’t agree with that.
This shows you can put together a bad plot and don't change the gameplay at all and some people still gonna say it's a masterpiece just because it's a sequel to a good game
💯
fax
Exactly its people’s fault
The gameplay was improved, but the pacing was soooo horrible. Pacing is the one thing that makes ND games fun to play, and they fucked up
7:33 Vulnerable to raiders. In the first game you see the dam getting attacked and it isn't too far of a stretch to think that raiders might want to attack Jackson
Like two lines later tommy says what if hunters come again.
While there is a lot to criticise in this game, that point isn't a valid one. It's not infected breaching the walls they need to be prepared to defend against, it's other humans. I love Game Sins but I thought it was understood that it was just for fun, not an actual review of the game; so many of these comments are taking every sin as fact when actually, as is always the case in these videos, a lot of the points raised are actually explained in game. It's not the game I wanted, there are a lot of plot holes that warrant questioning, so I'm definitely not saying "all critics = bigots", but a lot of people criticising really don't seem to have played the game, or didn't understand it if they did, cos rhey seem to be arguing against their own assumptions and it's confusing the hell out of me! Sorry for the rant and going off on a tangent but trying to discuss this game anywhere is become exhausting.
@@cathyannis83 being explained isn't the same as being good. You can explain something, but that doesn't mean the explaination nor the thing is good. That is a fundamental of you're failure to understand that
I could explain why trophy hunting has a great effect in saving a species. doesn't mean that its. but to you its good because its explained?
@@shadowywarrior did you read anything I actually said? Are you replying to the wrong comment? What you have extrapolated from my comment bears no relevance to the words I actually wrote.
It has been 4 years since that attack, they probbably have more then 20 families now.
I heard somewhere once that forgiveness isn’t always for the person you’re forgiving but for yourself. So you can move on. Maybe that’s what they were trying to go for in the end, but I agree, Abby got revenge but suffered no consequence outside of her friends dying, never felt remorse, and was a cold dark person who would’ve killed a pregnant woman with a sneering comment to her lover.
You can’t just say “good” to someone when they tell you the person you’re about to kill is pregnant.
and abby has all her fingers and has lev
and had she killed ellie she'd would suffer no consequences
When I saw her hanging up on that stake, I was really hoping she was dead. So that the game could still have the same point "ellie gave up everything she had because of her desire for vengeance and in the end, it was all for naught". While at the same time, Abby would be dead.
Either that or Abby sees Ellie while she's hanging on the stake and with her dying breath expresses remorse for what she did to Joel and teaches Ellie the lesson that nothing good comes from seeking vengeance.
Either of those scenarios would have been solid endings, imo.
she dont say "good" because "ahah it is even worse for you!!"
She said "good" because she was thinking "I can do to you the exact same, because she's pregnant too". Abby didnt liked really much Mel but she was trying (owen is the one who fucked up his relationship with Mel, that's not abby. Abby was even mad at Owen and at herself after because he already got Mel and because she was pregnant. That's why she wants him to stay at the aquarium and that's why she feels even more guilty after because it's HER than told him to stay there. Because she wanted to stop doing shit with Owen. But that ruined everything and she must have felt the same feeling than Ellie when Joel died : the feeling of an unfinished relationship. Because of her revenge, she never has loved Owen like she would have wanted to, and because of the lie, Ellie has made so much time to forgive Joel than he died the exact same day they were beginning to come close again).
Abby is affected by the death of Owen FOR SURE, but she is also from the death of Mel. Even if you dont really like someone, death is always shocking. Like you say to yourself "he wasnt that bad, that's a shame than he is dead", you cant be happy about it, you just think "what a shame than we didnt liked more each other"
the worst part was that Mel was pregnant and she felt guilty because of what she has done with Owen just before
So that's why Abby was almost happy than Dina were pregnant. Because she wanted to make suffer Ellie as much as she suffered from the death of Owen, Mel and Manny.
And I really think than her friends dying (and sometimes dying because of her decisions) is horrible. Like it isn't small. Everyone she loves is dead at the end...
and she didnt only lose her friends. She loses her backpack with all her coins (memories from her dad), she loses her city and her life with the wolves, she had to kill her ex-compagnion, some WLF, to protect Lev, she lost her hair, her muscles, at the end she looks dead and has idk how many sun-burns... she is a litteral dead body... she is getting attacked by Ellie, almost dying while she just wanted to go away with Lev, the last person she got
Lev too had lost everything, he needed Abby. Ellie and Abby both end up broken in fact. Abby with her dreams about her dad (they go better with Lev, because she found a reason to fight for). Ellie with her PTSD (that ended too with that last encounter; when she saw how was Abby [she was so miserable than Ellie didnt even killed her on the pillar] and that killing her was meaningless at this state of her journey. She now remember of Joel has a good memories).
For both of them, childrens are making them better. Lev for Abby. JJ for Ellie.
If everything is right, she got back to Jackson with Dina and JJ and is going to live a peacefull life from now because she finally said goodbye to Joel
Abby shouldnt have to feel remorse for what she did (when you only look at her side of the story). She killed Joel because he killed her dad and nothing more, except beating up a bit Tommy and Ellie they didnt kill anybody else and they didnt destroyed Jackson or anything.
When Abby killed Jesse and tried to kill Dina Tommy and Ellie, again, from her side, she had good reasons, because Ellie and Tommy killed her friends first (from the point of view of Ellie, it is more complicated, but how was Abby supposed to know? She only saw than they killed her friends and the dog)
And we see than when Abby killed Joel, her face was just like "oh. just that. wasnt it a bit useless at the end?"
if Ellie and Abby had talked, they bith would have feel guilty. But how could they have talk? They couldnt
From her view, Abby shouldnt feel any remorse
Ellie should have just walked up to the stake where Abby was tied, slapped her once to wake her up, said "Remember me, bitch?", then put a bullet in her. Then she should free Lev and fuck off.
Out of all the reasons somebody could want revenge on Joel, they chose the one murder that was the most justified. Killing a doctor who was about to kill a child.
I guess we can skip the part where she would have died peacefully in her sleep and produced a cure that might’ve saved the human race.
But I guess it’s hard to justify abortion too when you blatantly call it child murder.
Agreed: Abby being hit in the temple that hard with a hammer would have killed her or given her severe nerve damage to say the least. Also a doctor wanting to kill the only person who showed immunity to the virus would be ridiculous as they'd learn more by studying her as a living specimen.
I don’t understand why the doctor couldn’t have removed a sample of the cordyceps from Ellie, she has fruiting bodies in her head I’m sure a sample wouldn’t have caused severe damage
Marlene knew why Ellie was immune, because her mother was bitten while pregnant.
Why didn't she ever follow that lead...?
She clearly didn't have any ethics over killing a child, so why would she have ethics over experimenting with other pregnant women 🤔
The problem that I have an issue with when it comes to the whole story of Last of Us series is how the cure was going to be made from Elie but the only way to do so was to cut open her head. This doesn’t make very much sense to me. Now I remember that the fireflies said that they were going to make a vaccine with what they would have got from Elie. That’s not how vaccines work. A vaccine is pretty much has three different types. 1. Is a similar type to whatever your trying vaccinate. 2. Is to use a weaken version of whatever it is. 3. Is a dead version of whatever it is. A vaccine is not a cure sorta to speak as it is more of a means for your immune system to have a means of defense against whatever disease is out there. So if they did cut open Ellie’s head what they would have is a vaccine but for a few people only so they’d have to keep doing the whole head chopping thing to keep make vaccines. Also the zombie outbreak is a fungus not a virus. So a vaccine is probably not going to work. If they were planning on make a different type of cure they could have easily just use Elie’s damn blood. It’s not her brain that’s fighting off the fungus infections it’s her antibodies. So I believe when they were makes this game’s story they didn’t have very much medical knowledge. This is just something I never really like and yes, I know that it’s a video game and it can have its own logic but my problem is that this world is just to damn similar to ours for me to accept that reasoning.
I also wish the game didn't make it seem like the only thing people had to worry about was getting infected by the fungus what about all the other diseases and viruses that would need a cure or vaccine
even if they somehow came up with a cure (for the sake of an argument) whats to stop every evil bastard, criminal, gang member, or raider from busting down the fireflies doors (they were getting their rears handed to them in the first game if i recall) killing them all and hording that crap for themselves? are we to assume they'd be all like " no we must allow the cure so no more fungus chungus" i doubt it.
@@shadowfox3rd “no more fungus chungus” might as well be the fireflies moto with how juvenile and ignorant their plan was, also good joke
This game doesn't even expand on that, other than the Joel/Ellie relationship. They could have literally made Abby the daughter of one of the cannibals that Joel killed and the story would be the same.
@@The856crew Also even if you're immune you could still be torn to shreds by the infected which seem capable of living forever in sealed garages, sewers and what not.
I’ve always thought that medicine doesn’t work “let’s dissect someone alive” way now. Biopsy, tests, blood, scans - we have a truckload of non lethal methods to create cure based on immune patients. And it’s not like it is all lost in fully equipped hospital.
Aaaaand, Advanced Warfare, of course
It was a very interesting choice to make the main idea of this game that revenge leaves you with nothing but simultaneously making it so the MC doesn't actually get her revenge but is still left with nothing. Meanwhile, the other MC takes revenge for a less justifiable purpose and gets just about the happiest ending she could have asked for.
But she bit Ellie. Ellie was infected again because she got bitten by the clicker. So Abby ends up infected. So I like to think Ellie did end up getting her revenge
She got nothing because she perused revenge... She left her home and Dina, that choice there left her with nothing
@@danisnotonchairs3561 Abby bit Ellie earlier on in the game in the Theatre fight to escape a choke hold I believe. Given that months (or a significant period of time passes before they meet again) and Abby is not already an "infected, then the Abby infection theory, (that Abby could get infected following biting off Ellies fingers at the games climax) is unlikely
SpendingSpice2 I think he means when Ellie got bit by the clicker that was hung upside down at the end, then Abby bit Ellie’s fingers. But I doubt that it would actually infect her.
I mean, Abby did have a bunch of her closest friends brutally murdered because of what she did and now she’s pretty much alone with Lev, sooooo I wouldn’t say she got off Scott free.
Let's not forget to mention Ellies complete lack of appreciation for everything Joel did and went through for her and how much he looks out for her , whilst she just shits all over him
Not protecting the plot, but that's what kids do honestly
To be fair this was the only good bit of storytelling in the whole game. Elie was willing to forgive him right before he died so she was not thankless for all that he did for her
For me the worst part is the way Jesse's character is treated. His child with Dina is essentially treated like its Ellie's son, and the first epilogue is framed as a family life with Ellie and Dina acting as parents of Jesse's son. Even the PTSD flashbacks Ellie receives after that point doesn't offer the slightest remorse for his loss, and the only reference to Jesse's legacy after that point is his family offering to take Dina in after Ellie left.
Modern day feminism at its best
I am upset at the fact nobody had remorse for Jesse after his death and it made him seem like he was a worthless character whose on main reason in the game was to be a sperm donor to Dina and die. I actually enjoyed Jesse as a character, and that was a lazy way of him dying. But I’m also proud of Ellie stepped up to be a parent for J.J when he died, and also because of her and Dina being lovers I think it’s obvious she would do that and treat her like her own kid. BUT Jesse didn’t deserve that at all.
29:13 Thats not a simple "Slaver", that guy is Fat Geralt, the savior of this game.
He did the best he could, but then Ellie had to ruin everything.
RIP, Fat Geralt. 😢
@@SydBarker in the 3rd game his daughter will get revenge on ellie .
ParanaHue Rip
@@SydBarker wat
@@SydBarker shame we never got to play as him so we could understand his story
This is a small detail, but the state quarters abby collects shouldn't be dated before 1999 (because that's when state quarters began). The 1st coin Abby gets is from 1978.
I agree with Sin 75. Why didn’t they wake Ellie? To me, that makes the doctor look worse. It implies he didn’t want to risk asking her in case she said no, because he was going to operate on her regardless
She was even willing to do it voluntarily, knowing it could kill her. But the point is this "doctor" would slice up his only 'labrat' for a one time only gamble. He had zero proof that this so-called cure could've been made in one go. And would it even be enough?
24:30 there's something you didn't mention after this point.
Tommy managed to successfully ambush and lure abby to the rails of the dock but instead of tommy shooting her dead he tries to push her off the side and into the water, which seems pointless since that wouldn't even kill her at all.
But on a side note
after this game, i would not be surprised if neil got demoted.
especially considering he had a hand in unfair dmca take downs.
It is called "plot shield", which Joel and Ellie's fingers did not have in this game.
I'd believe it if Tommy tossed the gun and just wanted to beat Abby to death with his bare hands.
Tommy acts completely stupid throughout the entire game just to further the plot. That's what we call bad character development.
@Venen because the game was a trash dump lost 80% of sales in the first week and was generally hated?
Erabu kun I mostly hear people call it “plot armor”
I want to add a sin for Ellie drawing with pen in the first cutscene we see her in. Seriously, someone's cocky.
You missed one at 17:56. Abby asked Mel what Owen thought of her going outside the safe area and Mel replied with, "Why would it be up to Owen?" As if the baby she is holding isn't also Owen's and he shouldn't get a say in whether or not he wants his child's life put in danger.
He also didn't sin Jesse asking if Dina was "gonna keep it." An abortion during post-apocalypse is rather counterintuitive
@@angeldiaz762 Yeah, and killing each other in droves isn't. This game has lesbians, transgenders, bodybuilders, and "vaccine" from a fungus. The offhanded implication of abortion isn't even on the radar with the rest of it. Numbers they have in those "communities", well, I reckon they would slip to inbreeding pretty fast and would have to resort to Eskimo'esque practices like whoring your wife to other tribes or just random familially separate men to sustain population variety. You need AT LEAST 10k people who are as far apart genetically as possible without breaking speciation boundaries to "repopulate". And death rates on those idiots are so hight that I can't imagine getting that many people in one spot without triggering a massacre. Let alone entrusting them with mixing in a way that wouldn't create closed loops in the family tree. As far as I'm concerned - just save the fuss and coat hanger the thing out. People in that universe are all shit anyway.
@DannyO Atleast we still have Tommy. If they want to somewhat redeem themselves they should make a DLC playing as Tommy either going through Seattle from his POV or going to kill Abby, whichever.
@DannyO TBH Abby felt like the Straight White Male American Hero that everyone complains about, but she gets a free pass because she's female. This video basically confirmed a lot of what I thought about this game from the leaked script and that I shouldn't even give it a chance.
She don't need to ask no man!!!!🙄🤣🤣🤣
Everything wrong with: Tlou part 2
1. The whole game
Outbreak Day was September 26th, 2013. If Pearl Jam's album released on October 15th (real world), it would mean it never released in TLOU's world due to the outbreak. Which would mean it would be impossible for Joel to know that song (unless he was real good friends with Pearl Jam & heard it early or something)
The song was uploaded to youtube in july before the album released because they played that in a concert. So joel actually had listened to that song.
@@Bruh_Bruh_Bacon The video that I found of it only has just over 50,000 views, though, unless Joel took a trip to Chicago to see them in concert. Sure, it's not impossible, but it's still a massive contrivance that he picked the song with blatant foreshadowing (from a band based in Seattle, no less).
@@SlyDante Dude Neil Druckmann himself said it in a tweet that's how i know.
@@Bruh_Bruh_Bacon Well, that sounds more like Neil trying to look up something to retcon a sin. Plus it still doesn't excuse the contrived foreshadowing.
In the real world there's no clicker or there are? So chill out it's a fictional story. Damn
This is the take on this game the world needed
Now we wait for GCN's and combine their powers
Dang I really hope GCN also does a video on this game. Dartigan is more of a sarcastic kind of smartass sense of humor whereas GCN does more roasting.
I really hope Neil Druckmann and his brigade can watch this with an “open mind”.
They won’t listen to any criticism of the game.
29:31 this part beautifully summarizes why the game failed. I just finished it and I was dumbstruck at how unnecessary Abby is as a character. I genuinely tried to sympathize with her but the logic didn't add up time and time again. One can argue that the same message of the game could've been delivered even better without pushing a new character to the mix. I think it was an overall cheap way to lecture gamers on the importance of perspective (and also revenge bad, mercy good) and whatnot. But I think Druckmann was so focused on that end goal that he lost sight on what made the first installment so great and hence, the game was genuinely trying to be meaningful in my opinion but it fell on deaf ears because the meaning itself is muddy and inconsistant as hell and was forced down my throat.
"thats a slow nightshift at Arby's" im dead
"How's your arm?"
"Not there"
The big point of contention here is that their moral of "VIOLENCE BAD" is contradicted by Abby getting away with her revenge.
Ellie lost everything she held dear and couldn't get her revenge.
Abby by contrast got her revenge and if it wasnt for the involvement of the completely unrelated Ratlers Abby wouldve met up with the Firefly survivors and had her happily ever after
If you (and the dense asshat who made this video) think “revenge is bad” is the theme, not trauma, fatherhood, self identity, the philosophy of the ‘other’ and the million other deeper concepts at play, idk what to say
I think the point is that the Ratlers may have been pretending to be fireflies. Seeing as Abbey goes to the place, gives her credentials, and gets punched by Fat Geralt as a reward. So basically, if she just decided to ignore what her ex thought, and Ellie didn't go after her for revenge, she'd have her happily ever after. Even though it's Abbey's actions coming back to haunt her.
A reviewer without hindering nostalgia from the first game or someone who saw the leaks when they hit the net and the outlook is still the same with those who criticize the story. And people say the leaks was the reason the game gets hate. Sure, there are some dumb ass trolls sending death threats to the team from this game and hating the game for the most unethical reasons but that's not the overall audience of those who criticize but they are the loudest and most destructive with their actions. It's okay for people who love the game and got something from it, it really is, but to say it's a masterpiece and the "Schindler's List of games" is an overkill. The gameplay barely improved but everything else like animation, acting, graphics, music, sound design were top notch. A high quality game with subpar gameplay and narrative. This sequel is an average experience with below average writing that was manipulative af to push an agenda that failed. The disconnect with gameplay and story is one of the game's biggest failings. It needed to be an interactive movie format kind of game for the narrative to work with choices imo
It's..sad. To see this series fall to this level of poor writing (execution is the worst of it alone with contrived plot devices, downgraded previous characters and everyone being dumb to some degree). The first game had it;s flaws but the story was engaging and well written enough but here the talent from the first is missing and it's clearly apparent. Neil is like the only recognizable name from the first game that I saw credited in the second (a lot of ND talent left due to the awful crunch culture/creative differences) and it shows in the writing. A prime example of graphics aren't everything...especially with a story driven game.
Perfectly summed up how I feel. No body can fairly call this game a MASTERPIECE. I feel half the people that praise this game want to defend it because of how much hates it gets, and others praise it for the clout.
@@AnimeWorld-kf5jm You're absolutely right and because of those reviews the rating inflated ridiculously to a point of comedy; now these review outlets are completely untrustworthy.
All these "professional" reviewers definitely did it for clout and/or pity. They probably also do not want to lose early access. If they had given honest/unbias reviews, especially after those leaks, anything critical probably meant closing the doors and blacklisting. Still, despite this it doesn't make it right and even if someone unironically loved the story and unchanged gameplay there's no way they are that blind to its flaws to give it 10/10.
I think preordering is even more of a bad idea now because now we can't even trust early access reviews.
Absolutely agree. Screw Abby, I loved Juel and she tortured him in cold blood! The whole plot is crap. I wanna play Joel or Ellie, and have no desire to play Abby but the game makes me do it.
U know when u play the empathy card it does make u wonder what about the people abby killed when is one of them going to get revenge
And what about innocents that joel killed for around 20 years before meeting ellie
Everyone who seeked revenge in this game got worse off because of it. That's the fucking point of the story.
Why say "whendeygetrenvungedurhur" as if its a a win if they do.
hannahallyana you make Joel sound as if he just killed everybody he saw. Sorry, but no. People who try to kill you first aren’t innocent. Joel killed out of the need to survive. The two brothers you meet in the first game are a great example. Joel didn’t kill them, did he? Nope, he let them be, just as they let him and Ellie be.
@@TheLostAtom01 well still he was a hunter or bandit he killed many undeserving, I love Joel but doesn't mean he was a good person, bandits are evil so was joel
@@TheLostAtom01 lmao he admits to have tortured and killed innocent people in the first fucking game.
He implies he was expecting for his past to catch up with him when he tells Abby to get it over with and doesn't even bother to ask why.
He was someone else's villain. Selectivity is a hella drug lol
Who disliked the last of us 2?
👇edit: I played the game now and it’s not that bad.the story is not great.but gameplay is amazing
Wow I guess no one yet doom fanboy
15k people apparently
You didn't sin ellie when she walked in on joel while seeing him bleeding on the ground with a large woman with a golf club in her hand trying to swing it at him and she didn't shoot first before walking into the room to ask "what's going on" ?
The door was open and ahe had a clear shot on abby
To much plot armor
they swapped finding a wood pallet for ellie to step on for 12 hours of female brock lesnar
i prefer the pallets
Good Lord I never saw it before but she is a dead ringer for lesner !
There's also the fact that the first game even tries to make us feel like Ellie is unsure to trust Joel's lie about the fireflies; she maybe knew that he was lying but decided to just be understanding. This game just butchered not only everything that happened in the first game, but all of the characters as well. We grew to love Ellie and Joel, but the second game tries so hard to make us hate them it's just dumb.
TLOU 2, in my experience, was a waste of time, money, and hype. I spent a week to beat this game, only for it to be a let down. I would rather die than play that game again. There were a few moments where the game was ok, but to have us play as Abby, the one that killed a character that everyone loved, is stupid. Let alone Naughty Dog lied to us about many things to TLOU 2.
MGS fans waiting for MGS2: Mm, first time?
RE: Abby's father - What happened to his oath to do no harm? I'm doing no harm; she'll be under anesthesia while I'm taking her brain out. And no one told Ellie what they were going to do - even if she had consented, she's only 14. Hippocratic/hypocritic.
I kinda thought it's completely okay to kill ellie to save the world. But yea as a doctor he should've considered searching for a third option as well because if he does the operation and it doesn't work, well they ain't gonna find another ellie. Because, imagine. Them saying there aren't any more surgeons like jerry in the world, no way they gonna find another immune person
@@sayam9983 Nah, just start killing Ellie and try to attack Joel. This will work.