Great video Tom. I just order my Lightning and I can’t wait to have it in my driveway. Your videos with help me with the learning curve of being a first time EV our. Keep the videos coming!!!
Your videos are always very informative! I recently put a slide-in camper on my Lightning and the Grabbers did great from Folsom to Rohnhert Park (Ca) although I noticed an ever-so-slight bulge in the rear tires and got worried. I replaced it with Nitto Recon Grappler and my mileage went down to 220'ish 1.7kw from Owens Valley 395 highway to South Lake Tahoe last weekend.
Another good test, thanks. My Lightning Lariat has the General Grabbers and I prefer the look of an A/T. Just using all of these videos to make a better well informed decision also hoping for more A/T EV designs to hit the market
I'll bet that the distance difference - is the *size* of the tires? Even the amount of wear is going to affect the range in two ways. The rolling resistance improves as the tread wear, and actually aero drag is reduced with tread wear. And certainly the tire diameter is going to affect the distance that is recorded AND it will affect the speed indicated on the speedometer. The best way to figure the actual speed is to go with the GPS speed.
@larry Spiller Huh? I'm not quite sure you understand what this test was about so I'll explain. Ultimately, how far I drove in this comparison doesn't matter. What matters is I drove the same course at the same speed, and the A/S tires finished up with 8% higher SOC than the A/T tires did. The distance is irrelevant.
@State Of Charge the distance is not irrelevant, if the tire size changed the trip computer does not report accurate distance and efficiency. No ands ifs or buts about it.
@@larryspiller15 The distance was the same for all intents and purposes. The loop was the same point to the same point. The overall energy used was measured, so the efficiency of each are comparable.
Great stuff as always Tom. I have the Generals on my Lightining too. I just found a similar improvement towing my 19' GeoPro camper. It had Westlake brand offroad tires on it, which were totally unnecessary for me so I replaced them with BF Goodrich Endurance tires, which are a general purpose RV tread pattern. I towed from my home near Pittsburgh to Sinnemahoning SP in northern PA, a 144 mile trip one way. I improved from 1.1 to 1.3 m/kw compared to the same trip last fall. As you can imagine, any improvement in efficiency while towing is significant especially with only one DC fast charger near my route. Tire manufacturers are beginning to offer tires designed specifically for electric vehicles. I hope as they apply advancements in material technologies, they will produce tires with lower rolling resistance. A good subject for a future video.
Thanks Tom. I was wondering about this. I’ve had my lightning for a month now with a couple thousand miles already. This is my first EV and I had never even driven one before it came In. Your videos gave me the confidence to get an all electric vehicle and enter the market for one.
Great comparison! Ive had my 2023 lightning for a week, and live in snow country. Were both of the tires the same load range? I’ve found that the higher load range tires with heavier weight, and stiffer sidewalls affect the rolling resistance more than tread patterns, within reason f course. All bets are off with dedicated mud tires.
Thanks so much for this, Tom! My Lariat came with the A/T tires and I always wondered how much range I was losing. Would you say your BFG tires are pretty comparable in rolling resistance to the tire included with the 2023 Lariats?
The Ford all terrains do look like an all-season. Their tread is not even as aggressive as the standard version of the tire. It is a special OEM version that is less aggressive. The BFG is interesting, but probably not very comparable to even the AT tire on the Rivian since the BFG is all about performance with little regard for efficiency, it’s not even an LRR tire.
Another great video Tom. I sm just curious which one will be more efficient all season tires or Summer tire. Probably not a good comparison on F150, but maybe on a Mustang?
Great video as always! I have been going through all the videos and I just watched your top 10s and I noticed you did put a wrap of some kind of the front light bar. Do you talk about that in any other video? Is there a brand you recommend?
Hi Tom, are you still using the K02 with your lightning, if you do, are you happy with them after a year (good in rain, dry and snow). I have the general Grabber, used them for the last year, looking to change them, not happy with their rain and snow performance.
KO2s are great but definitely not the most efficient tires, I run them on my 3.5 Ecoboost f150 and I lost about 5-8ish% mpg going to KO2 LT tires on 18s from the stock Hankook Dynapro ATMs on 20s.
Tom, how about a recommendation on a low rolling resistance EV road tire for the Ford Lightning. I have been looking at the Pirelli Scorpians but if you know of a tire other than those that have performed well let me know. I am getting close to needing replacements on my lightning and not wanting the OEM General Grabbers again.
I didn't watch the side by side video but your numbers intro I find interesting. That you did it with the ATs. I'd wonder how the Rivians 2 motor setup would do in comparison. But (haven't finished the video) I recently did a trip to Williamsburg, VA and the road trip was 637 miles roundtrip. I have found that 65-70 is the best spot for highway driving and mi/kWh (maybe i got up to 72 at some point). Your numbers chart in the intro made me chuckle cause I never dipped below 2.2. And as I got closer to home at the end (baby was done being in the car) I went faster and still didn't drop under 2. But of course, I'm using the stock A/S. (never used the A/C). I have a tonneau cover too. Looking back at my logs I started at 100% traveled just under 200 miles (194 but we stopped in Richmond for dinner) and I used 52% of my battery by the time we got to our destination.
Interestingly, I'm looking at the reverse - replacing the all-terrain tires on my Rivian with General Grabber all-seasons! (To get some extra miles specifically when towing.) I already have a second set of Rivian 20" wheels (the "Bright" wheels that look to be a little more aerodynamic) to mount them on, just waiting for my local tire ship to get the Grabbers in stock.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Fair enough, but it would be interesting to know if Rivian's selection of tire was based on range compared to tires such as the BFG.
I thought the same thing. the rolling resistance between the Perillis and the KOs is going to be different. Especially since the Rivians are specifically designed and compounded for EVs. They're.going to have a lower rolling resistance penalty vs the KOs. I'd love to see this test with the Scorpion tire on the Ford. It should fit. I think I've seen Discount Tire showing it fit on the Lightning.
I mean, if you wanted to compare range hit based on tires you might have selected, I dunno, equivalent tires? The Pirelli's on the R1T are a mild AT that perform more similarly to the BFG Trail Terrain's than the K02s. The K02 is widely known to be one of the least efficient tires on the market, even in EV circles.
I’d like to do a range test on my new 2023 IONIQ 5. If you could assist with your routine just reply and I’ll provide a way to send it. Appreciate all you do and am looking forward to your portable 240V EVSE reviews. Nice range gain. 22:53
I’m not Tom, but I had 35” Grabbers in my Gen 2 Raptors and they were absolutely scary under hard acceleration, high speed uneven terrain and especially wet weather highway driving. Replaced w 35” KO2s which are much better in my opinion. Hard to describe but the KO2s seem much more planted(stable) in almost every condition.
I'm not really impressed with them. They aren't terrible, but I probably wouldn't buy them again for the Lightning when they wear out, I'll try something different.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Tom, Michelin is coming out in September with a Defender LTX M/S 2 (new redesigned) which I think will fit the Lightning 22's and it will fit my Rivian 22's. They will have a 275/50/22. Looking forward to seeing how people like it. I've had Defenders on other vehicles in the past and they have been very good tires.
Hi Tom, I just received my Lightning and am learning the ropes with it. Any chance of a video about level 1 vs level 2 charging with regards to battery longevity? There's a lot of misinformation and opinions out there on this subject, and no actual studies seem to have been done.
I'm not sure anyone really knows the answer to that. I've actually read that very slow charging isn't good for them either as the batteries are spending more actual time being charged even if it's at a lower rate. I think the best you can do is put in the best charger you can at home and charge there and use fast charging as needed.
No significant difference, Level 2 is still a very slow rate so it doesn't harm the battery. The lightning is a larger vehicle that uses more energy, so you will definitely want a Level 2 charger at home instead of Level 1. Level 1 will be too slow, it will take 5 days to fully charge. Most people will install a Level 2 charger on a 50 or 60 amp circuit, which reduces the full charge time to about 14 hours. If your main panel supports a 100 amp circuit for the 80A charger, then go for that for a full charge time under 8 hours. What % you keep the battery at has a much bigger effect on battery life than AC charging speed, Ford recommends you keep the battery below 90% for daily usage.
You won't notice any difference in L1 and L2 as far as battery life, IMO. The biggest issue is the heat generated and neither generates much heat. You could possibly say that charging the Lightning at its maximum L2 charging rate of 19 kW could, over time slightly accelerate degradation, but eve that wold be minimal, IMO.
Hi Tom. Just stopped in to commiserate about the tooth. I had that happen a few years ago. By now you're past the oral surgeon removing the roots, with instructions on avoiding a "dry socket," which has nothing to do with EVSEs. 😀 Then that has to heal, then they put in the post, then that heals, then they fit the crown, then you wait for the fitted crown to arrive and then, finally, you're back to where you started just before the molar broke. Of course, if you're like me, it'll be months from now and you'll be several thousand lighter in the wallet. Anyway, good luck. Oh yeah, I'm not even going to tell Conner my experience with having my wisdom teeth removed as an adult...
I haven't been in a Rivian, but my ass tells me that the Ford will ride better and be more quiet with off road tires than the Rivian would be with all seasons. Say what you want about the hardware, but the Lightning is one buttoned up vehicle compared to anything on the road today.
I'm surprised there wasn't much of a difference. The road noise was slightly higher with the K02s, but I think that was more of a testament to how well the Lightning's soundproofing is.
Tom, if you had just kept going Westbound, you could have stopped to see Punxsutawney Phil . It was right along your Route on the Keystone Shortway. Q: How well does Ford’s Hands Free driving work ( Blue Cruise) compared to Tesla Full Self-Drive? I am curious also as to how you did mileage wise versus Fords advertised rating ? What is Fords rating for your battery pack size?
Electric vehicles may work for around close to home where you can plug back in. But from my house to my favorite marina that's 120 miles away and no place to plug in. Nope not buying any Electric vehicle pulling my boat.
@@Kingsxtreme The vehicle monitors the driver constantly with 3 cameras. If you look away from the road for more than a couple seconds, it alerts you visually and audibly. If you disregard it, it shuts off BlueCruise. It's actually very safe, Ford's lawyers would never allow it to reach customer hands if it wasn't.
Great video Tom. I just order my Lightning and I can’t wait to have it in my driveway. Your videos with help me with the learning curve of being a first time EV our. Keep the videos coming!!!
Really great editting and tables to help explain.
Your videos are always very informative! I recently put a slide-in camper on my Lightning and the Grabbers did great from Folsom to Rohnhert Park (Ca) although I noticed an ever-so-slight bulge in the rear tires and got worried. I replaced it with Nitto Recon Grappler and my mileage went down to 220'ish 1.7kw from Owens Valley 395 highway to South Lake Tahoe last weekend.
Another good test, thanks. My Lightning Lariat has the General Grabbers and I prefer the look of an A/T. Just using all of these videos to make a better well informed decision also hoping for more A/T EV designs to hit the market
I'll bet that the distance difference - is the *size* of the tires? Even the amount of wear is going to affect the range in two ways. The rolling resistance improves as the tread wear, and actually aero drag is reduced with tread wear. And certainly the tire diameter is going to affect the distance that is recorded AND it will affect the speed indicated on the speedometer.
The best way to figure the actual speed is to go with the GPS speed.
Yeah, I thought about that after. Probably just a slightly different diameter.
@State Of Charge irresponsible to not use a GPS based mileage tracker.
@larry Spiller Huh? I'm not quite sure you understand what this test was about so I'll explain.
Ultimately, how far I drove in this comparison doesn't matter. What matters is I drove the same course at the same speed, and the A/S tires finished up with 8% higher SOC than the A/T tires did. The distance is irrelevant.
@State Of Charge the distance is not irrelevant, if the tire size changed the trip computer does not report accurate distance and efficiency. No ands ifs or buts about it.
@@larryspiller15 The distance was the same for all intents and purposes. The loop was the same point to the same point. The overall energy used was measured, so the efficiency of each are comparable.
Great stuff as always Tom. I have the Generals on my Lightining too. I just found a similar improvement towing my 19' GeoPro camper. It had Westlake brand offroad tires on it, which were totally unnecessary for me so I replaced them with BF Goodrich Endurance tires, which are a general purpose RV tread pattern. I towed from my home near Pittsburgh to Sinnemahoning SP in northern PA, a 144 mile trip one way. I improved from 1.1 to 1.3 m/kw compared to the same trip last fall. As you can imagine, any improvement in efficiency while towing is significant especially with only one DC fast charger near my route. Tire manufacturers are beginning to offer tires designed specifically for electric vehicles. I hope as they apply advancements in material technologies, they will produce tires with lower rolling resistance. A good subject for a future video.
Tread depth is a top correlation to rolling resistance
A deeper tread depth means higher rolling resistance?
Thanks Tom. I was wondering about this. I’ve had my lightning for a month now with a couple thousand miles already. This is my first EV and I had never even driven one before it came In. Your videos gave me the confidence to get an all electric vehicle and enter the market for one.
Great comparison! Ive had my 2023 lightning for a week, and live in snow country. Were both of the tires the same load range? I’ve found that the higher load range tires with heavier weight, and stiffer sidewalls affect the rolling resistance more than tread patterns, within reason f course. All bets are off with dedicated mud tires.
Thanks so much for this, Tom! My Lariat came with the A/T tires and I always wondered how much range I was losing. Would you say your BFG tires are pretty comparable in rolling resistance to the tire included with the 2023 Lariats?
I don't think you have the same range penalty as the K02s have because the tread isn't nearly as aggressive.
The Ford all terrains do look like an all-season. Their tread is not even as aggressive as the standard version of the tire. It is a special OEM version that is less aggressive. The BFG is interesting, but probably not very comparable to even the AT tire on the Rivian since the BFG is all about performance with little regard for efficiency, it’s not even an LRR tire.
Another great video Tom. I sm just curious which one will be more efficient all season tires or Summer tire. Probably not a good comparison on F150, but maybe on a Mustang?
Great video as always! I have been going through all the videos and I just watched your top 10s and I noticed you did put a wrap of some kind of the front light bar. Do you talk about that in any other video? Is there a brand you recommend?
Sorry, just saw your tweet about it. Thanks!
Hi Tom, are you still using the K02 with your lightning, if you do, are you happy with them after a year (good in rain, dry and snow). I have the general Grabber, used them for the last year, looking to change them, not happy with their rain and snow performance.
KO2s are great but definitely not the most efficient tires, I run them on my 3.5 Ecoboost f150 and I lost about 5-8ish% mpg going to KO2 LT tires on 18s from the stock Hankook Dynapro ATMs on 20s.
thats because ko2 is very heavy tire
Tom, how about a recommendation on a low rolling resistance EV road tire for the Ford Lightning. I have been looking at the Pirelli Scorpians but if you know of a tire other than those that have performed well let me know. I am getting close to needing replacements on my lightning and not wanting the OEM General Grabbers again.
I didn't watch the side by side video but your numbers intro I find interesting. That you did it with the ATs. I'd wonder how the Rivians 2 motor setup would do in comparison. But (haven't finished the video) I recently did a trip to Williamsburg, VA and the road trip was 637 miles roundtrip. I have found that 65-70 is the best spot for highway driving and mi/kWh (maybe i got up to 72 at some point). Your numbers chart in the intro made me chuckle cause I never dipped below 2.2. And as I got closer to home at the end (baby was done being in the car) I went faster and still didn't drop under 2. But of course, I'm using the stock A/S. (never used the A/C). I have a tonneau cover too. Looking back at my logs I started at 100% traveled just under 200 miles (194 but we stopped in Richmond for dinner) and I used 52% of my battery by the time we got to our destination.
Great video as always. When you do your Rivian R1S can you do a range test with and without the aero covers ?
So you want me to drive ~280 miles to nowhere twice?😳
Three times actually… because we’ll also ask you to test the R1S with AS tires 😂 please 😅
Interestingly, I'm looking at the reverse - replacing the all-terrain tires on my Rivian with General Grabber all-seasons! (To get some extra miles specifically when towing.) I already have a second set of Rivian 20" wheels (the "Bright" wheels that look to be a little more aerodynamic) to mount them on, just waiting for my local tire ship to get the Grabbers in stock.
If the only reason you put the BFG KO2s on the Ford was to even the test, you should have installed the same tires the Rivian has.
It wasn't the only reason, it was one of the reasons. The K02's are my favorite A/T tires, I've tried many and they are the best for my needs.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Fair enough, but it would be interesting to know if Rivian's selection of tire was based on range compared to tires such as the BFG.
I thought the same thing. the rolling resistance between the Perillis and the KOs is going to be different. Especially since the Rivians are specifically designed and compounded for EVs. They're.going to have a lower rolling resistance penalty vs the KOs. I'd love to see this test with the Scorpion tire on the Ford. It should fit. I think I've seen Discount Tire showing it fit on the Lightning.
tom, great video
Hey Tom, Marques sent me to your channel.
I would love to see a new range test with the new Toyo Open Country AT3 EV tires.
Traction differences? TFL channel did tread comparisons here in CO in snow. Not a huge difference either, if any.
There’s absolutely a difference between the stock grabbers and all-weather 3 peak rated tires, that goes for snow, mud, rain, and sand.
I mean, if you wanted to compare range hit based on tires you might have selected, I dunno, equivalent tires? The Pirelli's on the R1T are a mild AT that perform more similarly to the BFG Trail Terrain's than the K02s. The K02 is widely known to be one of the least efficient tires on the market, even in EV circles.
I’d like to do a range test on my new 2023 IONIQ 5. If you could assist with your routine just reply and I’ll provide a way to send it. Appreciate all you do and am looking forward to your portable 240V EVSE reviews. Nice range gain. 22:53
Thank you, I’m wondering how a cargo topper effects the range?
I might have to repeat the test after adding a cover
The Lightning has an A/T tire option on the Ford website now.
Yeah, they didn't when I ordered mine. But the A/T tires that are offered don't have the same aggressive, deep tread that the K02s have.
The 0.3 mile distance difference is probably more from tire diameter difference than lane changes
Yeah, I'm sure that's what it was. I was just caught off guard when I finished and didn't give it much thought.
Tom, what are your thoughts on the General Grabbers? They have a size that will fit my Rivian R1T 22's and are a bargain compared to the Pirelli's.
I’m not Tom, but I had 35” Grabbers in my Gen 2 Raptors and they were absolutely scary under hard acceleration, high speed uneven terrain and especially wet weather highway driving. Replaced w 35” KO2s which are much better in my opinion. Hard to describe but the KO2s seem much more planted(stable) in almost every condition.
I'm not really impressed with them. They aren't terrible, but I probably wouldn't buy them again for the Lightning when they wear out, I'll try something different.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Tom, Michelin is coming out in September with a Defender LTX M/S 2 (new redesigned) which I think will fit the Lightning 22's and it will fit my Rivian 22's. They will have a 275/50/22. Looking forward to seeing how people like it. I've had Defenders on other vehicles in the past and they have been very good tires.
Can we get a range test in the summer for windows down versus ac at 70 degrees?
Hi Tom, I just received my Lightning and am learning the ropes with it. Any chance of a video about level 1 vs level 2 charging with regards to battery longevity? There's a lot of misinformation and opinions out there on this subject, and no actual studies seem to have been done.
I'm not sure anyone really knows the answer to that. I've actually read that very slow charging isn't good for them either as the batteries are spending more actual time being charged even if it's at a lower rate. I think the best you can do is put in the best charger you can at home and charge there and use fast charging as needed.
No significant difference, Level 2 is still a very slow rate so it doesn't harm the battery. The lightning is a larger vehicle that uses more energy, so you will definitely want a Level 2 charger at home instead of Level 1. Level 1 will be too slow, it will take 5 days to fully charge. Most people will install a Level 2 charger on a 50 or 60 amp circuit, which reduces the full charge time to about 14 hours. If your main panel supports a 100 amp circuit for the 80A charger, then go for that for a full charge time under 8 hours. What % you keep the battery at has a much bigger effect on battery life than AC charging speed, Ford recommends you keep the battery below 90% for daily usage.
You won't notice any difference in L1 and L2 as far as battery life, IMO. The biggest issue is the heat generated and neither generates much heat. You could possibly say that charging the Lightning at its maximum L2 charging rate of 19 kW could, over time slightly accelerate degradation, but eve that wold be minimal, IMO.
I have the Nitto Recon Grapplers with a 2 inch level kit. I get 1.7 on highway. Should i ditch the kit or the tires?
I'd keep them both but it depends on your driving needs. Even with 1.7 mi/kWh the range would be fine for my daily needs.
What a fair test between a midsized truck and full size. Lol
Hi Tom. Just stopped in to commiserate about the tooth. I had that happen a few years ago. By now you're past the oral surgeon removing the roots, with instructions on avoiding a "dry socket," which has nothing to do with EVSEs. 😀 Then that has to heal, then they put in the post, then that heals, then they fit the crown, then you wait for the fitted crown to arrive and then, finally, you're back to where you started just before the molar broke. Of course, if you're like me, it'll be months from now and you'll be several thousand lighter in the wallet. Anyway, good luck.
Oh yeah, I'm not even going to tell Conner my experience with having my wisdom teeth removed as an adult...
If you could mention the difference in the ride quality between the two sets of tires, for example the cabin noise and the road handling.
I haven't been in a Rivian, but my ass tells me that the Ford will ride better and be more quiet with off road tires than the Rivian would be with all seasons. Say what you want about the hardware, but the Lightning is one buttoned up vehicle compared to anything on the road today.
I'm surprised there wasn't much of a difference. The road noise was slightly higher with the K02s, but I think that was more of a testament to how well the Lightning's soundproofing is.
What tire did you end up running on the Lightning on a daily basis?
Stock tires from March to November and the K02s in the winter
I wonder how it would be on an 'ev specific' tire?
well i would what all terrain tires in the winter for the snow
Are both sets of tires LT versions?
Tom, if you had just kept going Westbound, you could have stopped to see Punxsutawney Phil . It was right along your Route on the Keystone Shortway.
Q: How well does Ford’s Hands Free driving work ( Blue Cruise) compared to Tesla Full Self-Drive? I am curious also as to how you did mileage wise versus Fords advertised rating ? What is Fords rating for your battery pack size?
Wow, 2mi per kWh is terrible! I get about 3.7-4 on my EV and I drive it aggressively.
What EV do you own?
Name it anything but lightning. EV truck with the lightning name is terrible. 🤦🏻♂️
Why is that?
Electric vehicles may work for around close to home where you can plug back in. But from my house to my favorite marina that's 120 miles away and no place to plug in. Nope not buying any Electric vehicle pulling my boat.
Not having your hands on the wheel is just plain stupid. Showing-off can put everyone’s lives in danger.
Ummm...it's a "hands-free" ADAS system. The vehicle literally tells you to take your hands off the steering wheel.
Someone's never heard of Hands Free Bluecruise. Lol
@@kennyb123 you can “hands-free” yourself into a serious accident too.
@@Kingsxtreme ok buddy.
@@Kingsxtreme The vehicle monitors the driver constantly with 3 cameras. If you look away from the road for more than a couple seconds, it alerts you visually and audibly. If you disregard it, it shuts off BlueCruise. It's actually very safe, Ford's lawyers would never allow it to reach customer hands if it wasn't.