Ford Lightning EV Motor: Power and Performance Built In-House
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- Cory and Kevin discuss The Ford F-150 Lightning Motor.
Open House at Munro & Associates on November 29th from 12:00pm - 4:00pm! Exclusive access to the Ford F150 Lightning and Mustang Mach-E. $195 per person. Register NOW by emailing us at openhouse@leandesign.com!
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I have to give credit where credit is due. The way Ford quickly modded the F-150 to Electric so well is impressive. They even managed a huge Frunk instead of filling the front with wires and batteries
They can thank rivian for the design
The relatively compact and squared off footprint of the motor and reduction gears makes for easy packaging. That left a lot of space for the front storage area (frunk).
I like ford trucks all you have to do is compare the chassis with anyone else. They have always been better stronger tougher built
@@yankeedoodle7693 Two completely different trucks designed concurrently by two different manufacturers.
@@williambasinger5859 Unless they rust from the inside out like my 2006 F150 did. I found a 2005 model to swap my low mile 2006 drivetrain into that actually has a better and stronger frame with things like the front tow hooks being much more beefy on the older model. Cost cutting is obvious on the 2006 compared to the 2005 frame.
It's not just the cost of the part but the cost of maintaining the inventory. As a manufacturer you have to provide spares which requires space, administration, packaging, distribution. It's cheaper to use the same part as many times as possible so you don't have create all of those factors again.
And it’s also great for the aftermarket and all the mods and configurations possible unlike in teslas
GREAT VALUE! You guys make engineering FUN!
Glad to hear it!
Looking forward to seeing how Ford designs the next generation BEV pickups from the ground up. They did a remarkable job incorporating EV technology into the F-150 Lightening.
99% of the concepts fly right over my head...But I'm here to learn and your videos make it easier to understand these complex mechanics. Thank you!
the most amazing thing about watching these videos is the fact that a bunch of crazy people/teams make it so we can actually afford to buy a vehicle. There is just so much too them when compared to other products that I spend $1000's on. Does not matter what make of vehicle, it is still mind blowing
Then you have to look at the Mercedes UNIMOG! It s the most versatile vehicle on earth with tons of different applications and configurations……
Very interesting and informative. Learn something new every day watching Munro Live.
Thanks for watching, DJ!
Ha instant thumbs up starting off with a Cory blooper!
Thank you for pointing out the magnet carrying rotor laminates are what transfer the force projected from the stator to the magnets into the drivetrain proper.
if you were to conduct a poll of your followers you might find that fancier and fancier intros are not needed. The show is at its best when you get right to business. Cheers!
Nice easter egg on the Paper Pad in the background
wow! I'm blown away! open house! woohoo! it's so hands on to see the complete mechanical drive line! super cool ! reserving my 7-up orange sherbet punch now!! good luck !!
Snowmobile ready to go to Auburn Hills MI !!! snow shoes, snow pants, boots, mittens is all ready to go !
The blooper at the beginning was great! It shows you guys have a lighter side. Great information on the motor
Ford’s done a commendable job of balancing cost, manufacturability and time to market. Manufacturing experience shows.
Not just experience. Plenty of manufacturers have loads of experience and have made awful EVs. Its more an indication that the leadership at Ford is deadly serious about making sure that they do it right. You only get one first impression and plenty of companies have borked theirs.
@@patreekotime4578 in agreement; I was thinking Ford specifically. Thank you for the clarification.
I can imagine that there was one team, or maybe even one person, who vehemently advocated for the parking pawl. It probably took a lot of insistence to get the whole team to agree to the added weight and cost, solely for a "low frequency high risk"* safety concern.
*hat tip to Gordon Graham
Battery operated parking brakes concern me. If the electrical system fails then there is no way to stop the vehicle from rolling unless its a fail on set up like air brakes.(In that case an electrical failure would make the vehicle immovable.) The parking pawl is probably as much about product liability as anything.
@@frankc3901 it should be a power open, so locked without power. The power to hold open should be very small
@@frankc3901 I think a servo-driven pin locking the brake rotor to the wheel hub would be just as effective without adding all that internal spinning mass to the diff. If that motor failed, the pin would still be locking it, but the whole assembly would be easily roadside removable (so you aren't stuck) and replaceable.
Thank you Cory and Kevin - excellent engineering analysis!
Thanks for watching, Fred!
Actually very impressive, and the parking pawl discussion is worth knowing about
Your open house is another brilliant Idea, Sadly I’m in Western Australia and short on funds to come and enjoy the show. Great vid
READY OR NOT,😁👍😎 THANKS KEVIN,CORY AND THE MUNRO TEAM FOR SHARING THIS 🤔💚💚💚
Wow, a lot of great content. I will provide two criticisms of the video though: I wish you would provide more notice for the open house, especially in holiday season. Secondly, the information density in this video required a little bit more rehersal and maybe some graphics would have gone a long way to ensure that the information is presented fluidly. They are reasonably minor issues, but there is a huge opportunity to improve the accessibility of information without a huge addition to the burden on production time.
I hope your Open House is documented for those who can't make it in person like me, stuck in the Great White North.
Thank you so much for explaining these motors. Makes me feel better about my purchase !
20:40. Learnt a new phrase. "the juice is not worth the squeeze". Nice.
What a difference, instead of some influencer saying how great your produce is Monroe opens it up and shows you why you want Ancor products.
Thx for the IGBT chyron that helped me look it up & learn. Very eye opening!
This channel has become one of my favorite channels out there :) By the way, we need more Sandy road tripping videos
Thanks, we have multiple travel videos coming out soon!
Wow this is just amazzzing,Ford is the way to go!
Yeah and they beat Tesla to it...Go figure.
Very interesting video, thanks for the commentary and technical descriptions.
It’s much more complicated than expected.
As a commercial fleet owner my vehicles often working fully loaded having a decent park brake is never going to be a bad thing.
Good job Kevin and Cory!
Thanks Eric
Impressive AND informative video. Tiny drops of humor sprinkled about - just enough.
re: alloy pan on the inverter sump - perhaps thermal consistency was a factor. just spit balling
Thanks to Sandy for staying true all these years THEN assembling such an amazing, bright team. I think getting Cory was your first big score.
Love seeing the outtakes :) Great video!
Thanks! 😃
I loved the cat sounds to say notice this.
Wow, love the detail, one of your best.
Thank you!
I'm guessing most will think me a cave man. I want a physical link from the driver to the emergency brake. No wires don't count. Cable or linkage only. No electricity needed.
Thanks for the content.
Not me no sir, after having multiple Ford's where the gd e brake cables froze in winter and slush locking my rear axle up. Happened with a explorer, mustang and f-150 I've owned. 🙂
@@4literv6 Emergency brake cables are usually quite reliable in cars with manual transmissions because they are used daily. With automatic transmission most people never use the mechanical emergency brake and that's when the freeze up from corrosion and or ice.
This is the most interesting and illuminating deconstruction of the electric Ford Lightniing motors I have seen. Excellent work.
Luv the leaving of the "outtakes"
Anyone else want know more about the Cory *Diet* ??
Looking svelte my good man!!!
Love the channel guys! Awesome work!!
He’s a runner. 🏃
Wonderful presintation. Thankyou.
Our pleasure!
@7:24 this is clever packaging: the reduction gear planet carrier is also the differential carrier, and the three differential pinion gears are nested between the three planet gears. Three pinions is unusual for a differential (two is the minimum, and four is the usual next step up for torque capacity), but it enables this compact nesting. This is important to minimize the problem of excessive width mentioned at 10:02... which can be an issue with short axle shafts, not just packaging between frame rails.
@7:27 those gears of a conventional differential are normally called pinion gears, not "planet" gears.
Actually the pinion gear usually drives the crown-wheel in a differential .
@@chrisbraid2907 yes, that is another case of a pinion gear, and so is the gear driven by the steering column in a rack-and-pinion steering system.
Generally, in a meshing pair of gears, the smaller one is called a pinion; the larger ones are the side gears in the case of the differential.
The other common name - and the one that the Munro staff probably should have used - for the small gears between the differential side gears is "spider gears", because they are carried by a "spider"... but it never has the eight legs of a real spider (just 3 in this case).
Snappy dressing there Cory. That white dress shirt for the Anker products was very classy while the cuff linked shirt for the video may be a bit over the top. But nice. As always; excellent presentation and I very much liked the screen graphics text explaining the acronyms. That should become standard.
The F150 Lightning is the 1st sign that at least one OEM is trying. Kudo's to FORD for getting their truck out before Tesla.
I like the parking pawl. It's a mechanical lock not relying on friction.
Great job. Nice last shot subscribe . Built Ford tough.
I love all of this stuff my mom‘s disabled and I was wondering if you guys take apart and look at Electric wheelchairs. because there’s very very different types of ectric wheelchairs and they’re very interesting as well just like electric trucks🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽❤️❤️❤️
And I was also wondering are these motors that Tesla Ford GM or whoever makes their Motors are they at the max torque that they can be at or are they under powered I was just wondering😅
😅😅😅 I was also wondering how can chairs can cost upwards to $30,000 it seems like it could be a little cheaper😂😂
Honestly, mes amis, ALL EV's are but a fanciful dream...a WET DREAM.
I have been building these units at work for yrs. This unit is a later model, that your talking about.
Thank you Munro team for sharing your findings and proofs of this "Automotive Renaissance"!
Pardon my french, I may have missed the term, how is this particular setup called when shaft goes through rotor shaft? Seems to be a very clever approach in terms of compactness. And as it is for a truck, I suppose this is not detrimental to robustness.
That's a coaxial motor and axle shaft setup. It is common, and has been used in (among others) the Ford Ranger EV of 1998, the Chevrolet Spark EV, and the Chevrolet Bolt. It's almost required to use a planetary reduction gear, so it is also used in other recent and current EVs... including both drive unit designs used in the Mach E.
@@brianb-p6586 Thank you sir!
love how far ahead this truck is vs cybertruck.
:D
And when CT leapfrog it in term of rate of production mid next year, what then? Hating on CT even more? If so why?
Twitter will tweet you when your CT is ready...😋
@@davidgrisco1939 If it hasn't gone bankrupt.
@@nguyep4 “mid next year” 😂😂😂😂😂
Great review, hope Ford's happy...
Wow! Did yall have an open house this year? I want to make sure I go next time
The 2 week comment about the parking pawl made me question something I never considered. What happens to an EPB when you lose power? Do they use a worm gear or something that can't be backdriven to prevent loosening?
Correct - electrically actuated parking brakes are not held on by electric motor power; once they are set, the mechanism stays in place until the motor powers them in the release direction.
Munro Live! Listen Up. Cancel the noise infested lead-ins. Just give us the info.
Could you do a comparision of weight of moving parts so compare every moving part from rotor to wheel added up for the whole vehicle and compare it to other vehicles with same or different power rating?
Im sure they do in their reports. Thats the kind of info companies pay for!
Great job Kevin reducing the filler words! Keep it up!
Thank you team. Informative as usual 🎈
The brake: seems Ford chooses to build the tougher verhicle. Adds costs without luxury but heck: it's a truck. Good to recognize.
Great Video, thanks a lot! I was wondering how to get the magnetic rotor out of the stator without damaging the parts? Do you hammer it until it falls out as shown at 24:11 ?
There will be a service tool that holds the rotor in alignment as it is removed from the motor. There should be no hammers involved.
@5:37 it would help clarity greatly to say that this is a *compound planetary gear set* of the stepped-planet type.
Cory looks like he lost some weight! Always trying to improve efficiency I see
I'm always amazed at how you can dismantle something and know why it was designed a certain way. And who know designing any automobile was so complicated and thought out, down to the bolts. Makes my head explode thinking about it.
So who records the videos or is it a different person all the time? And what camera are they using?
Exactly!
We have two videographers, Eric and Grace. We film all of our content with iPhones!
I want a deep dive into cooling techniques and implementations acrost all the platforms you've torn apart.
Maybe a second one focused on bearings. How are the loads carried, what materials are used, is they lubricated or not? etc.
Maybe a third on braking, esp how park is implemented. Sandy has said, "we don't need no stinking parking pall" but my pea sized brain says i don't want a car without one. So how does it work, what are the design choices and what are the safety factors?
Kevin's voice is deep enough that when he trails off towards the end the road noise filter tunes him out. Might play with different brands of mics or tell him to talk louder.
Love the ‘oily’ bit strip downs.
I am not a Ford fan by any means and have never owned a Ford or planned to..until the F150 lightning came along... I like it a lot...if the charging infrastructure is fixed in the next 2-3 years and it looks like that per the latest announcements (meaning Tesla will have to step up for the other slackers..) the Lightning is a very compelling product.. Thanks for the vid.
550 likes and 0 dislike. Well done :)
Very interesting video
Thank you very much!
@@MunroLive up ⬆️ to 945 likes 👍
Just engineering and logic , sigh of relief.
And monocled cats!
Thanks guys
Our pleasure!
The ford design part counts is going to make the parts department a Ton of money
This might be a stupid question, but could you explain the purpose of the laminates? Why laminates and not a solid machined piece? Is that a cost consideration, assembly difficulty, or does it have anything to do with motor efficiency?
It's so eddy currents induced by the electric magnetic fields only flow radially and not axially otherwise the currents they would produce their own electric magnetic fields that would fight the primary fields being generated. Each laminate is coated with a varnish to prevent current from flowing between them.
@@db4z09 I don't fully understand but I will read up on it. Thank you, very helpful!
@@johanlindqvist99 The reduction of eddy currents increases the output power and efficiency. This was discovered very early in ac motor design, like 100 years ago.
@@johanlindqvist99 The more of the magnetic field that flows between the stator and the rotor the more efficient/powerful the motor is. Because the plates are so thin in the axial direction (parallel to the center shaft) not much magnetic field can go that way, so more of it goes in the useful radial direction (inward from stator to rotor). As mentioned in the video the smallness of the gap between the stator and rotor is also very important.
Cat with a Monical? Must be an "Inside Munro Joke" or something! 🙂
It’s “monocle” and if you look, the structure literally looks like a cat in outline.
We're seeing economies of scale with Tesla too. Their S Plaid had two inverters on them (inverter from model 3/Y), while the rivian had a one piece construction. Ultimately as said in the video, the juice is not worth the squeeze.
The plaid rear drive unit also uses 3 oil pumps and two water to oil coolers.
Always good to see.
Thank you!!!
You're welcome!
hmm is the inverter filed with oil from the dif? even if you have a magnet and a filter you do get microscopic metal particles in it. SO wont that be dangerous in the future when you have bad maintenance on the unit and 400-800V DC power on open component's.
Is the stator/rotor flooded in oil for cooling in any EV or are they dry?
Does Ford also use Braking Limited Slip Differential in conjunction with the locking rear diff?
No, the differential shown is not a limited-slip, just locking.
Always interesting. Can/will this truck go back together?
The analogy with Pandora's box... I hope it's not accurate, given what was in the box.
how much force is applied to those dowel pins? that housing will suffer if it gets hardend pins jammed into it constantly
No. It wont.
@@mattbrew11 awesome, that explains everything....
Hi Munro Live team, is the mentioned open house available online for residents outside of the USA? Thanks
Not this one but we can look into doing an online version next time.
hairpin windings are clean!
I wonder what voltage and frequency they run the motor at? I would guess it is higher than 480 volts so they can get more than 1 KW of power per amp of power going through the motor. At 480 volts and 400 Hz, you can have a 5 HP motor smaller than a soda can, and light weight too.
Train locomotives run a variable frequency and variable voltage that can rise to 3,000 volts at 60 MPH.
I was looking at the frame of the Lighting and thinking about the problems that snow plow builders are having at installing a plow on a Lightning. There is not the similar structural to mount the plow, compared to a older F-250. By looking at your trucks, they might get a better idea of how to mount the plow.
If and when Lordstown produces a product, it will be interesting to compare in-wheel motor simplicity with all these pieces/parts.
Fast-spinning electric motor with gear reduction is the way EVERYone else is doing it who is serious about this, and there are plenty of reasons for doing it that way. It's one thing for a light-duty vehicle like Aptera to go this route, quite another for a vehicle that is expected to carry and tow heavy loads.
All these pieces and parts? Lol. Ive seen lawn mowers with more complicated drive trains.
Increasing unsprung weight is not wise and puts them in peril off road
@@bikeaddictbp I understand conventional wisdom. I am still interested in seeing how the Lordstown approach works, if they ever make it.
@@johntrotter8678 There are several technical challenges with motors being part of the wheel that have nothing at all to do with "conventional wisdom". Unsprung weight, heat dissipation of friction brakes and motors combined in a tight space. Shock and vibration directly applied to the motor and gear assemble etc. etc.
Great stuff. Is there an inverter strip video?
neat! a stepped planetary gearset
what are the teeth counts for the ring, pinion, and sun gears?
are they these the same teeth counts in the front and rear drive units?
I'm hoping to work out the reduction ratios
Do Monroe report on the metal used and machining in the gears. How do these and use of planetary gears effect the efficiency and cost? ( recently a number of manufactures have had problems with machining problems and low quality metals)
Love the whole "Evil Cat" thing. Hilarious.
No Michigan fans here. GO BUCKS!
O-H!
Flying into next friday to see my Alma Mater beat TTUN
I can't wait until Munro gets a new electric Chevy Silvarado for comparison purposes. Let's see if GM was wise to wait a year. I think not.
Comparing this tear down from the Mach E tear down, looks like the lighting team got the A team 🤣.
This is great, would love some more on the oil path and cooling. It seems that the shaft at 4:34 must be in backwards, since the journal bearing surface at the end must run in the journal bearings shown at 13:40, with the galley in between those two bearings supplying the high pressure oil to that oil hole in the journal? What is the rest of the oil path?
I need to find a controller for the front and rear motors so I can swap a lightning setup into my 2014 F150
Question?
At 13;37 instead of fasteners, couldn't they of used a permanent adhesive? Or possibly a weld?
Hahaha, love the bloopers
Did you figure out the gear ratios between motor to wheel?
I'd love to know too!
Great points about the parking pawl, I wonder if the Cybertruck will use an EPB or pawl, I'm suspecting just a beefy EPB, also curious about the Semi
I'm trying to find if the front motor uses a parking pawl, or if only the rear uses one. For the use case of launching a boat on a slippery ramp, i want all 4 wheels locked in Park, like a traditional 4wd truck. Any thoughts?
@@g6cpm6@g6cpm6 This is an interesting question: most EVs only lock one axle either with the service brakes, a dedicated parking brake, or a parking pawl. My understanding is most trucks are this way too unless you leave them in something like 4-low and the manual transmission in a gear. For ATs it would depend on how they handle park.
I'm pretty sure ICE 4wd transfer cases are typically outside the transmission, and even in 4wd high, when in park, equally "lock" the front and rear bound driveshafts with the same parking pawl internal to the transmission.
Ugh - too short of notice. Airfare is $1101 from San Diego. Darn! If it was $500 I 'd be there!!