Not sure if youve played france lately but the Magic 1 and Magic 2 drag changes were huge. Magic 2 means death if you launch it within 2 km behind someone. Magic 1 has some of the best flare resistance of any missile at the 10.0-10.7 br range. The Magic has a 2.5-3km range to consistently kill which is more than enough. Add on the fact that it just glides to people and it’s invisible while being flare resistant. Ranking the python over the Magic 2 is WILD.
@elliotg.b.676 Thats all the Python 3 has over the Magic 2. The Magic 2 has literally the same IRCCM as the R-73 so getting kills with the Magic 2 is more consistent than the Python. Python also has same flare resistance as the 9L which isn't great.
It has different flare resistance at longer ranges lmao, it’s irccm is called gate width which basically shrinks the fov super small after it’s fired, meaning it sees a LOT less flares than other missiles such as the r60 or 9l, at longer ranges it can see flares a lot easier since the target is smaller and can see the flares, but at close ranges like I’d say from 1-1.3 miles rear aspect especially it literally ignores every single flare fired, the f15 also has super hot engines which don’t help lmao, so when you use the r73 try to use it at closer ranges and it’s a guaranteed kill
@@brodykloster2102 My dude i was about 2.5 to 3 km according to IRST lock(i think it is around 1.8 miles)and he was on afterburner... if a IRCCM need to be closer than this to ignore a single drop of 4 normal sized flares it def isnt the best IRCCM...more than that i might as well go guns on the mf...
@@M0LOCK I mean 3km is 1.86 miles, rounded up it’s 1.9, a 1.9 miles shot rear aspect is very far and honestly even if it has the range it’s not the smartest to shoot at that range, that’s also weird that it did that I’ve shot rear aspect at 2 miles against an f15 before and it ignores every single flare he shoots, so idk what went wrong there but mine and everyone else’s seems to be working fine lmao
About the drag of the Magic, this is really an old and outdated take because the drag got considerably lowered by multiples patches. It considerably improved the range, making it able to reliably hit a target at more than 4km in front aspect and at around 3km in rear aspect, assuming the target is not flaring. Although the range is not as great as others missiles like the 9M, it becomed good enough and the IRCCM make it basically impossible to flare when it get at around 1.5 km. Seriously try to fire them at a greater range that what we used to, you'll get a blast at how the range got improved ^^ (that's what appened to me when i got kills with the magic 2 at more than 3 km) I think that the IRCCM make it really better than the Python 3 because it give you a quite good window where the missile can't be flared, something that can be really useful against an aware target. When compared against the R73, if the Magic2 is really far away from the R73 in a dogfight because of the thrust vectoring, the Magic leave the rail faster, making it deadlyer in a close range rear and side aspect launch : It alway surprise me how slow 9M and R73 are in a close range launch. The engine is also burning for a shorter time, and although it's worse for the range, it make it stealthier than the R73. I would say that the R-73 missile is the best at dogfights range, while the best missile at close range would be the Magic 2 and the best at medium range would be the 9M, because of it's smokeless motor, range and type of IRCCM, making it harder to flare in this scenario than a Magic 2 or a R-73 (Magic 2 that got a copy paste of the IRCCM of the R73). For the AAM-3 i can't say anything confidently for now and the R27ET can't be compared to theses missiles because it's a medium to long range missile, it's really not used in the same way a 9M/Magic 2/R73 will be. For the moment i think that 9M, R73 and Magic 2 are the top 3 IR missile with each one its strenghts and weaknesses you have to play around. (note : For arcade, because i'm also playing there, the 9M is just nuts because they maked all IRCCM impossible to fool in this mode when they are effective, and because the 9M IRCCM is always working you just can't flare it whatever you do, where R73 and Magic 2 have their IRCCM only effective in some ranges and aspects, so they are way easier to dodge. However you can still feel a real difference between arcade and realistic with theses two missiles, because preflaring will not stop you to get a 1.5km rear aspect launch successful to hit : preflaring don't work in arcade against any IRCCM when they are effective.)
I will add one more thing on the Magic 2, as I know that is the fastest acceleration short range missile with IRCCM, so it give much less time for the target pop the flare. R73 can defeated by turn you engine to 0% and spam the flare since it running much slower so target have time the react, Magic 2 doesn't give you that time
Problem with the Magic 2 is, it cant be launched too close like an R-73 as the fuse needs a certain time to arm (10 -20 seconds) and you cant fire it further away like an Aim9M as its burn time is so short. it needs to be in that sweet spot, side aspect works best for me. Head on is pointless and rear aspect is great but hard to achieve at top tier. Every jet at top tier has 100+ flares they can just pre-flare any missile, the IRCCM isnt anywhere near as good as that found on the 9M or the R-73/R-27 the explosive mass/warhead often crits without doing the damage of a 9M. Its not good enough for top tier but still strong for the 11.0-11.3 BR. Real talk now the Magic 2 should be able to pull 50G, it should have the best ingame IRCCM resistance. But its nerfed for balance.
Pretty much agree with all your points but will say the AAM3 is just a better 9M. Not substantially better but a decent amount better flight characteristics, arguably the best missile in the game for the majority of situations you find yourself in RB. AAM3 can hit some stupid shots the 9M could never hit. Kind of makes it feel like an R73 for more standard engagement ranges. The R73 is pretty insane but not nearly as versatile as a 9M/AAM3 or Magic 2. By far the best dogfight missile and its not even close, but dogfighting isn't the meta at all. Even before we got missiles like the R-73 and stuff you rarely rarely got an opportunity to dogfight in top tier matches. I'd much rather have a 9M in most situations even though the thrust vectoring is funny. When it comes to Magic 2's the biggest issue with them is you just don't get enough of them. I think after the buffs they are a contender for the best missile in the game but you only get 2 of them outside of the Mirage 4000. And since all the top missiles are pretty much guaranteed kills if you use them right, thats a pretty massive detriment since most other planes in the BR bracket will be getting 4 or more.
@@lukewhitehouse4103 10-20 seconds? What the fuck are you talking about lmfao. The arming time is more than the R-73 but not by a lot. It's about 1 second. Guidance delay is 0.12 seconds which is in line with other top tier missiles, it just obviously doesn't have thrust vectoring. It also literally has the same exact IRCCM as the R-73. Like its just copy pasted my guy. It's also great in a headon, directly counters R-73's lmfao. Idk what the fuck you're doing but holy shit, you make it sound like you're using Aim 9B's. Even the pre-buff Magic 2's are substantially better than you seem to think. Are you like delusional or something?
the r73's irccm isnt even comparable to the aim9m's the r73 starts eating flares once its not within around 1.5km, while the aim9m will literally fly for 4km ignoring flares
You can fairly easily defeat 9M by changing direction while flaring as 9M relies on inertial guidance while it shuts off it’s seeker to ignore flares, so if you change course you can defeat it, whereas R-73 is almost a guaranteed kill if the target doesn’t flare before the missile is 1.5-2km away
@@CallofWarQC I think you are ignoring a few important points, first while 9M can be defeated by changing directions, it requires the missile to be at least 2km+ if it was fired rear or side-aspect. Second, the R-73 despite it suppose to have better iccm, is if not one of the most easily flared top tier IRCCM missiles in the game when shot above 1km rear/side aspect. Throughout my time playing since the F16C/Mig 29 SMT was released, I noticed the R-73s were quite easy to flare, it usually took 1-3 pops of flares for them to lose lock when playing with and against it. The only times I've died to R-73s were when I wasn't paying attention, ran out of flares and/or it was really close range (0.5-1km). The aim 9M on the other hand I noticed were much harder to flare due to requiring a lot of flares, it has a longer range, and requires maneuvering to defeat it, not to mention it also gets a smokeless motor. If we look at the planes that face aim 9Ms, planes like the Mirage f1C, Ja37D, Gripen, F-15, and F-14B (let me know if I missed some planes with more than 200 flares) have one of the best chances due to having a lot of flares enabling them to be able to defeat the aim 9M. Meanwhile planes like the Mig 29, F-16, Mirage 2000, F4s, and Mig 23s have limited number of flares, with the majority having around 60 flares, and only a few of the having about 120 flares (while this is a decent amount, it's still usually not enough especially at top tier but at least it can help defend against a few IRCCM missiles), especially when taking mixed. It practically due to these reasons that the aim 9M is better than the R-73. And if we then add the AAM-3, which is the Aim 9M, but can pull 40g and has more explosive mass, then you practically have the best IR missile in game. To be honest, the best IR missiles goes like this, 1) AAM-3, 2) Aim 9M, 3) R-73, 4) Magic 2s (Due to IRCCM and the drag change buff that makes it really good), 5) R-27ET (Despite having IRCCM, it still can get easily flared and usually most kills are due to the fact its launched from long range and people aren't pre-flaring, and/or opponent is not aware), and 6) R-27T
Eh. I disagree. The Aim 9M is dodged with game knowledge. The R73 isn’t consistently dodgable at the moment under 1.75 kilometers, which is similar to the magic 2
@@SilentButDudley you can test it urself lol, i flare away r73’s all the time, and aim9ms require so much more effort to dodge, out of 100 deaths 10 of them are to r73’s and then like 60 of them are to aim9ms or variants, and then on top of that playing both the f16c and su27 the aim9m kills whatever it’s launched at 98% of the time while the r73 goes for a single flare
@@collander7766 No it does not I have played US 10.0+ air for over 600 battles. The 9E does not hit jack shit above 1.5km The 9J however can go out to 2-2.5km
As a brit I love our missile development. Fireflash beam riders, firestreak and red tops for bombers, sraam experiment then we stop for however long we stopped for. I guess the skyflash but they were just modifications. Then out of no where we make the ASRAAM which just topples every other IR missile in terms of range excluding the r27et and then the meteor which is just in a whole world of its own.
9D is at the very least C tier, uncaged seeker on the 9G doesn't justify 2 tiers of difference. R-3S is worse then 9B because the R-3 has a worse seeker (3.5km instead of 4km) so it will loose lock more easily against enemys showing their side or at range. Shafrir 2 is hot doo doo, I will take 9Es over it any day of the week. It is incredibly slow, has no range and although the seeker is uncaged the seeker camera is still the same as on the 9B meaning that 18G pull doesn't actualy matter because as soon as your enemy starts turning he will be side aspect to the missile and because of the s*** seeker it will loose lock and self destruct. Otherwise the list is mostly agreeable.
I actually don't think that there is any point in shooting AIM9B or R3S from 4-3.5 km since their max speed is pathetic 1.7M which arguably not great. They are rear-aspect and as it turns out it's not recommended shooting them from distance no longer than 2.5 km . However, R3S has more explosive stuff in it (8.8 kg eq. Against 7.62kg). That actually isn't noticeable, so both missiles suck.
Getting up to 10.3 with jets made me realize how much decompression is still needed. Using RB24J against all aspects, early SARH, and flares is god awful.
Aww you didn't rank my favorite IR missile the: TY-90, Its been damn near unflareable for quite a while and My heli gets 16 of them. I bet it would make a great A or possibly S tier missile. (TY-90 is a Chinese IR guided AAM found in their helicopter tree) This is a good tier list and I will share it with a few friends of mine.
@@F-18Superi remember there being a massive outrage when the GR1 was added and the videos of battles being over in just afew minutes from SRAAM spam but the missile now is just kinda mid. What happened? Did they nerf its range?
@@cookiecraze1310 The difference is mostly that flares kiiiinda werent a thing back then except on like a few planes (f4e, FGR.2, mig21bis, other Harriers mabye one im forgetting?) and all that it saw was f86 and mig15s who just kinda died to it since it came in at br 9.3 (gotta remember that this was the era when things like the f100 and T2 were at br 10.0 and sabres were 9.0+). Made playing anything in that completely bracket impossible. The missile was also more consistent back then. Sometime since the tracking has gotten a little less reliable (also it straight broke several times where it wouldnt track at all).
oh they nerfed EVERYTHING about that missile after everyone bought the premium lmao. flare resistance went out the window, they sometimes just.....explode on their own etc. They essentially gave it the AIM-7M treatment.@@cookiecraze1310
I think when discussing missile maneuverability, too much emphasis is put on the maximum G load. I see maximum G as an enabler of the real means of missile agility... fin angle (motor impulse and burn time plays a big role too, but talking about that would make this thesis longer than it's already gonna be). The Aim-9D/G/H is not more maneuverable than the Aim-9B/E just because its G limit got raised to 18 over 10. It's also because the Aim-9B/E has 9.9 degrees of fin angle while the Aim-9D/G/H has 15.3 degrees. This allows the missile to make in theory, a 50% tighter turn. A somewhat similar theory example can be seen with the Aim-54. It has a 17G overload, but sucks at snap turning because is has only 11.2 degrees of fin angle. It can only really use all of those 17G's at crazy high speeds. Other examples exist like R-60/M vs Aim-9L/M. Both are 30G missiles, but R-60 has 15.2 degrees of fin angle while Aim-9L/M has 24.3 degrees. Python 3 and AAM-3 both have 40G overloads. But Python has 22.5 degrees of fin angle while AAM-3 has 25 degrees. Probably the most extreme example I can think of would be Magic-1/2 vs R-27T/ET. They both have 35G overloads. But Magic has 15.2 degrees of fin angle while R-27 has an eye-watering 28.8 degrees. If you've ever shot an R-27 at a crazy high off-bore and watched it crank across your screen at unholy rates and wondered how it pulls that tight, this is why. A near perfect example can actually be seen with SARH missiles. The Skyflash SuperTEMP and the Aim-7F/M both have 25G overloads. So why is the Aim-7F/M so much harder to kinetically dodge (when you're in a position to do so at all)? It's because the SuperTEMP has the same 20.7 degrees of fin angle the Aim-7E had, while the Aim-7F/M has 27 degrees. Shoot enough of them at off-bore angles and you'll see just how much tighter the F/M pulls.
@@perennialE I can only disagree with this video as the 9E is just upgraded 9B when 9D feels like one or two classes higher completely different missile than 9E with much greater chance of hit and more range, 9G is just slightly upgraded 9D that dont differ as much as it has also 18G and 9D should be placed in the same tier as 9G
But you'd need to get that close first. And considering the br those missiles are at, you're more than likely gonna die trying to get that close. Coupled with the fact that the missile takes a whole 2 seconds to start turning, you also gotta be directly behind the person. The range is also lackluster. At 0.5km you're probably gonna be more effective with an aim 9l since rise time is a thing now. So yea, a missile being damn near unflarable in specific scenarios doesn't completely define how good it is. And like he said, it's just his opinion, which we're all entitled to have. A person's playstyle is also a factor in how good a missile is so it'll definitely differ from person to person.
@@stringz4862 The Magic isn't incapable of range. If the target is slow enough it can hit targets around 2 miles. The Magic 2 is a guaranteed kill if the target doesn't flare 1 second after it launched which happens 95% of the time. If you have a plane with Magics behind you you cannot take your eyes off of him for one second or a Magic 2 will already close its FOV enough that flares do nothing. Also with the amount of countermeasures flying around top tier IRCCM is a necessity and the Python 3 doesn't cut it anymore. The Magic 2 is... If I get within 1 mile rear aspect there's nothing he can do and the Python 3 is... I hope he doesn't flare from that range which he usually does. Also the Magic 2 has better initial pull than even missile except the R-73, and R-60M the youtubers are lying to you so if your 0.5 mile target is getting fired by an Aim-9L rather than a Magic the Magic would still be more effective anyway. I was dogfighting with my friend yesterday him in his Gripen dumping flares and rolling and I locked him at 0.5 miles and killed him, preflaring with a flare cloud, nothing he died.
At ranges where the Magic 2 becomes unflareable you've likely already won that fight with a gunshot. The real strength of the Magic 2 is ironically in the head on, despite the fuse delay, because if you know the perfect spacing, the hard acceleration of the Magic 2 can close the gap where it is flareable very fast, which is good for missiles with IRCCM based on FOV.
@@perennialE I use the 9M considerably on the Gripen, but consistently wish I had the Magic 2s I get on my Mirage. Magic 2 with HMD and it's complete inability to be flared rear-aspect within 2km is nuts good - it's the only missile I can fire and truly forget because I KNOW the enemy is dead! I use the delta wings on the M2k5f to dump speed as quickly as possible and pull an instantaneous verticle turn faster than anything else to point the nose at a merging aircraft and beam them with the crazy acceleration of the Magic. (Also I think you missed the missile on the Swiss Hunter, which I believe is a modified Aim 9P or 9J)
Dude, back when the top tier planes don't have flares, the SRAAMs rules, the gameplay is to just set throttle to 100%, get close to someone, lock it with the missile, and since its uncaged, turn & lead your target, when the range goes under 1KM, fire the missile, it got 100% hit rate, of course back then we got several WT patches regarding the SRAAMs, in some update it's OP, in some update the missile won't track, but all in all, a very memorable time for UK mains nowadays it got distracted by flares really easily, but sometime, they still manage to surprise someone
I think PL-5B supposed to be higher than R-60M. I played both and i really liked PL-5B because it has a good range and sometimes it ignores flares. R-60M is effective at 2 km and if enemy doesn't see you.
Yeah its 100% a better missile. It accelerates like crazy and cant be flared easily at all. Firing it at below 2km on a phantom is pretty much a guaranteed kill because of how hot the phantoms engines are.
@@niksonrex88combine that with the fact that because it has a short burntime (but insane acceleration) it's harder to spot for players not paying attention
The AIM-9H has better flare resistance than the G. The AIM-9M also has a definitely better IRCCM than the R-73. I genuinely wonder if you used some of these after hearing you say these things about them…
No, 9G and 9H have the exact same flare resistance. Imo the R-73’s and AIM-9M’s IRCCM are different but pretty equal. They are better at different things.
@@collander7766 in the datamines the H has a bit more flare resistance. And no, the AIM-9M definitley has better IRCCM. If youve used both you should be aware of this. Even without looking at the data.
@@niksonrex88 you keep mentioning "data" but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about lol. I'm looking at the missile stats right now and the 9G and 9H have identical seeker stats. Their FOVs are the same and they have the same rangeband values. As for the 9M vs R-73, as I said, they are different but equal. The R-73 is always going to be more reliable at close range and from rear aspect. The 9M is better from the side aspect and from farther ranges, but is much easier to flare rear aspect.
@der7766 telling me i have no idea what im talking about while looking at the in-game stat card. I just looked at the github datamine and the seeker on the 9H does have a "ratemax" of 20 instead of the 12 on the G variant which means it tracks better. I know i have seen someone mention this and i know what im talking about. And like i said the AIM-9M has better IRCCM because of the thing that you just said. It tracks side aspect despite the flares, something the R-73 doesnt do. And its nigh impossible to flare it rear aspect. You have to do a very specific manouvre (if you werent preflaring) that isnt even possible on some planes. So youre just dead wrong. Did you even use both of them?
@@niksonrex88 no offense but you’re making yourself look a little ignorant here buddy. “Ratemax” is the track rate only. It has absolutely nothing to do with flare resistance. Actually technically it has nothing to do with the missile whatsoever because any track rate above 8°/second performs basically the same (diminishing returns). For all intents and purposes, the 9G and the 9H are identical. In terms of flare resistance though? They are 100% identical. No, the AIM-9M is not just “better.” That’s just a ridiculous statement to make. They are better *in specific scenarios.* R-73 will always be better at close range and will always be more reliable rear aspect. The 9M is much better side aspect but is also much worse rear aspect. The 9M is so easy to flare rear aspect that it’s ironically easier to flare than the 9L sometimes. Yes I use the AIM-9M and R-73, and also the Magic 2 (same flare resistance as R-73). It’s pretty clear that you don’t though, considering 9Ms have been out for a while now and you still have no clue how to evade them
Historically speaking, at least for a small example: The israeli air force asked for development of the python 3 to be better than the aim-9L in every aspect, when they got their hands on a r73 and they found out in testings it was better than any of the IR missiles at the time, which is why the python 4 was developed, again to succeed in every aspect. The python-3 is not an all aspect missile, but it has a very heat sensitive sensor so it can detect targets exhaust from more extreme angels than other rear aspect missiles. I don't know about the french and japanese ones tho. Iaf officials admitted that the 1st gen shafrir was sub par and barely usabale, worse in every aspect than aim-9B and its russian copy, and the aim-9D/G were still more favorable by the pilots than the shafrir-2.
Python-3 is an all-aspect missile, both IRL and in WT. You literally said yourself that the Python-3 was supposed to surpass the AIM-9L in every way… well the AIM-9L is all-aspect.
I personally think the R24t should be S tier cause u can have it On a mig23ml and I literally just used it in practice and shot down a bot from like 8.5 km away but everything else is balanced.
IMHO PL-5B is better than PL-5C, AIM-9L. Yes, it's rear aspect but I always got more kills with it. PL-5C and AIM-9L has wider seeker FoV, it means less flare-ressitance. PL-5B accelerates very fast and after 2 seconds it goes invisible for quite long distance.
other people have alreayd explained the bad magic 2 take ("at its range you wouldve won with guns") bruh i dont know anyone who can do 2-4km gunshots the shafrir 2 is arguably in the correct tier (or maybe both it and 9D could be higher). idk about calling its motor as weak It has the same 5 sec burn time and thrust:weight as aim9d/g/h but because of the larger missile body it has more drag and overall comes out to flying slightly slower but its range is still really long. Its better than 9d in short range because same g at lower speed= tighter pull and the uncaged seeker lets you lead it by a lot
@@ayfr1249 I doubt you have any idea how to flare 9ms. They are easily flared with just flare, turn, flare, turn. R73s are literal pure death at close range, and at long range you have 27ETs lmfao
@@creepincreepy261 You can't do that in time from close range with 9Ms either. At ranges that aren't close, you'll still need to flare a bunch and bleed speed in order to dodge it, which is much harder to do than simply flaring once to trick R-73. Also, you'll need much more flares to trick 9M than R-73 at literally any range, where R-73 at 2km+ behaves just like R-60s and goes for the first flare instantly, since seeker head haven't shrunk enough and still eats flares like candy. You seriously don't know how their IRCCM works if you suggest using 27ETs at long ranges.
They’re about equal imo. Each of them is better at different things. Ironically, the 9M is easier to flare rear aspect than the 9L because it’s not worrying about the heat signature of your engine vs the flares, only whether or not there are flares present at all. Which means that any 9M fired from like 0.7+ km rear aspect is pretty much AIM-9B levels of flarability. Compare that with the R-73, where if you launch it under optimal conditions it is literally unflarable.
I disagree on the SRAAM now that every IR missile is flare hungry expect the very top with IRCCMs this missile is way better than something like an R60. It's got thrust vectoring so it's pull is insane. During dogfights you can literally hit anyone from any angle. I slept on the SRAAM as everyone is bashing it but i got an insane amount of kills with it during my Brit grind with the Harrier Mk1 last month since most people just don't expect the crazy angle launches you can do with it. Now sure it's not the best missile and it's ultra short range but the surprise factor is very high with it at 9.7
Curiously how people like to put down aim9B's meanwhile, I have over 50% kill ratio with those missiles, way WAY more than with AiM 9Ms I'm using B's at 8.0 against clumsy early jets and props and if you know when and how to use them, they are surprisingly effective.
Where does the R60MK come cos I can have some games where it pulls insane and get 5 kill games with it and other times feels like I’m launching one of those streamer balloons where it doesn’t pull at all 😂
Strong disagree on Red Top and SRAAM. SRAAM is basically inescapable within range, simply because it's stupid fast and has absurd manouverability. Red Top meanwhile, yes, isn't all that long-ranged... But it's ALMOST all-aspect and can get locks at silly angles all the time. Combine that with its extreme gimbal limit and it can do some very silly things which people don't see coming. Also, while it's very short ranged at low altitude, if you're high up, above about 5km, it grows a long, long pair of legs that people often don't see coming.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but you are tripping if you think the 27ET is better overall then the Aim-9M. the IRCCM that the ET has will go for flares up till about 3km, and if you aren't using them like an R-73 or Aim 9m and shooting them within 3km at a target that doesn't know you are shooting at them it will miss. It can be helpful but the IRCCM on the 27ET and the 27T are not good enough that they should at all beat out the Aim 9m. Personally I think the 24T is honestly even better then the 27T simply because the MiG-23 gets to see lower rank vehicles at 11.3 compared to the 27T only being avalible for 12.0-12.3 vehicles, but if you aren't considering that point, then yeah it is better then the 24T.
>R73 best IRCCM No ofence dude, but have you even played with them? Despite 40g pull and bigger effective distance - it is as shitty in term of flares resistance as R60M, and can effectivelly kill only on 1,5 km range
Skill issue. Obviously you’re entitled to your own opinion, but as soon as you say some goofy shit like “is as shitty in term of flare resistance as R60M.” Yeah cope bud. You clearly only play Russia Let me guess, you launch R-73s headon from 5 km and then wonder why they get flared lmao
M9-E should be an F tier believe me. I was playing with an F5 and 800 m from me there was an A10 and well not only was it exactly straight I needed to throw two missiles because the one missed for no reason at all
I actually like flare rise time because you can't just instant beat every missile at every range, but it can be frustrating sometimes when you're on the receiving end of missiles not caring
@@perennialE Yeah I generally like it most of the time too since it punishes you more for letting someone get onto your six. Its mainly annoying for me when I begin to flare a missile just a tiny bit too late and then it becomes near unflareable. It does make killing big hot targets like bombing Kfirs or F-4s pretty easy though.
As a ground main who rarely plays jets, r60 is absolute dog shit of a missile, if an enemy sees that you fired he can just pop even 1 flare and it's gg, while u sit there in your su22m3 and eat all the missiles in your face with almost 0 chance of doing anything against it...
@@Sveta7 the F-5 carries AIM-9Es or Js… even the AIM-9L isn’t hard to flare. Pretty much every non-IRCCM missile can be decoyed with a single flare pop
I like how US mains are crying how AIM-9Ms are better than the R-73 just because of the IRCCM, and they forget the fact that R-73 pulls much more G’s and has a larger proximity fuse which makes it 10 times more better in a dogfight. Okay, let’s say the AIM-9Ms are better than the R-73, but they will NEVER be better than the R-27ET, the goat of Sim battles. The ET simply outranges 90% of RADAR missiles in the game, and you need to predict if someone fired one at you or not.
Red top Irl , Great missle with usable range that was ahead of its time, Used up until the the Mid 70s and then still used on the RAFs Bomber interceptor Force through the 80s . Red top in war thunder ........... May as well throw a brick out the Cockpit. I swear these devs are braindead.
You are severely underestimating the AAM-3 , unless you are in a turn fight the AAM-3 is the best missile in the game right now i shoot it head on from 3/4 km and they dont care about flares at all
R--73 should be A tier, its an AIM9L, while R73E should be S tier... and still not a huge fan of it, rather have AIM9M. Shafrir 2 is aim 9B so i don't get why its better....
TOTALLY WRONG, we all know AIM-D has the BEST flare resistance (not even joking gaijin fix)
nah keep it for the lols
I think because it has a clamped down fov and the seeker focuses on less heat signatures, cmq ciao venatorn :D
So it’s not just me lol I wondered why I was doing so well in f8e lately
When using AIM-9D, do it from above. That thing will ignore flares. But you need to do it at a 90-degree angle.
@@chocolat-kun8689 probably a bug. If you know how to flare a 9D it’s pretty easy. And not at all the same as irl
Not sure if youve played france lately but the Magic 1 and Magic 2 drag changes were huge. Magic 2 means death if you launch it within 2 km behind someone. Magic 1 has some of the best flare resistance of any missile at the 10.0-10.7 br range.
The Magic has a 2.5-3km range to consistently kill which is more than enough. Add on the fact that it just glides to people and it’s invisible while being flare resistant.
Ranking the python over the Magic 2 is WILD.
40g >35g
@@elliotg.b.676 IRCCM > NO IRCCM
And Magic 2 is still far from what it can do IRL !
Exactly! All IRCCM rank S
@elliotg.b.676 Thats all the Python 3 has over the Magic 2. The Magic 2 has literally the same IRCCM as the R-73 so getting kills with the Magic 2 is more consistent than the Python. Python also has same flare resistance as the 9L which isn't great.
R73 "best IRCCM in the game"
Me on SB:"Fires at an F15 in rear aspect on AFB"
F15:"Drops flares 1 time keeping on AFB"
R73:"uuuuuuugghhhhh *misses*"
It has different flare resistance at longer ranges lmao, it’s irccm is called gate width which basically shrinks the fov super small after it’s fired, meaning it sees a LOT less flares than other missiles such as the r60 or 9l, at longer ranges it can see flares a lot easier since the target is smaller and can see the flares, but at close ranges like I’d say from 1-1.3 miles rear aspect especially it literally ignores every single flare fired, the f15 also has super hot engines which don’t help lmao, so when you use the r73 try to use it at closer ranges and it’s a guaranteed kill
@@brodykloster2102 My dude i was about 2.5 to 3 km according to IRST lock(i think it is around 1.8 miles)and he was on afterburner... if a IRCCM need to be closer than this to ignore a single drop of 4 normal sized flares it def isnt the best IRCCM...more than that i might as well go guns on the mf...
@@M0LOCK I mean 3km is 1.86 miles, rounded up it’s 1.9, a 1.9 miles shot rear aspect is very far and honestly even if it has the range it’s not the smartest to shoot at that range, that’s also weird that it did that I’ve shot rear aspect at 2 miles against an f15 before and it ignores every single flare he shoots, so idk what went wrong there but mine and everyone else’s seems to be working fine lmao
@@M0LOCK In sim, the 9m is overall better due to smokeless, but he was referring to Air RB, which the r73 claps everything easily
@@M0LOCKyou're not supposed to launch R-73 farther than 1.5-1.8 km away from your target
About the drag of the Magic, this is really an old and outdated take because the drag got considerably lowered by multiples patches. It considerably improved the range, making it able to reliably hit a target at more than 4km in front aspect and at around 3km in rear aspect, assuming the target is not flaring. Although the range is not as great as others missiles like the 9M, it becomed good enough and the IRCCM make it basically impossible to flare when it get at around 1.5 km.
Seriously try to fire them at a greater range that what we used to, you'll get a blast at how the range got improved ^^ (that's what appened to me when i got kills with the magic 2 at more than 3 km)
I think that the IRCCM make it really better than the Python 3 because it give you a quite good window where the missile can't be flared, something that can be really useful against an aware target.
When compared against the R73, if the Magic2 is really far away from the R73 in a dogfight because of the thrust vectoring, the Magic leave the rail faster, making it deadlyer in a close range rear and side aspect launch : It alway surprise me how slow 9M and R73 are in a close range launch. The engine is also burning for a shorter time, and although it's worse for the range, it make it stealthier than the R73.
I would say that the R-73 missile is the best at dogfights range, while the best missile at close range would be the Magic 2 and the best at medium range would be the 9M, because of it's smokeless motor, range and type of IRCCM, making it harder to flare in this scenario than a Magic 2 or a R-73 (Magic 2 that got a copy paste of the IRCCM of the R73). For the AAM-3 i can't say anything confidently for now and the R27ET can't be compared to theses missiles because it's a medium to long range missile, it's really not used in the same way a 9M/Magic 2/R73 will be.
For the moment i think that 9M, R73 and Magic 2 are the top 3 IR missile with each one its strenghts and weaknesses you have to play around.
(note : For arcade, because i'm also playing there, the 9M is just nuts because they maked all IRCCM impossible to fool in this mode when they are effective, and because the 9M IRCCM is always working you just can't flare it whatever you do, where R73 and Magic 2 have their IRCCM only effective in some ranges and aspects, so they are way easier to dodge. However you can still feel a real difference between arcade and realistic with theses two missiles, because preflaring will not stop you to get a 1.5km rear aspect launch successful to hit : preflaring don't work in arcade against any IRCCM when they are effective.)
I will add one more thing on the Magic 2, as I know that is the fastest acceleration short range missile with IRCCM, so it give much less time for the target pop the flare.
R73 can defeated by turn you engine to 0% and spam the flare since it running much slower so target have time the react, Magic 2 doesn't give you that time
The AAM-3 is just a better AIM-9M, it has the same IRCCM but better pull and better range due to having less drag.
Problem with the Magic 2 is, it cant be launched too close like an R-73 as the fuse needs a certain time to arm (10 -20 seconds) and you cant fire it further away like an Aim9M as its burn time is so short. it needs to be in that sweet spot, side aspect works best for me. Head on is pointless and rear aspect is great but hard to achieve at top tier.
Every jet at top tier has 100+ flares they can just pre-flare any missile, the IRCCM isnt anywhere near as good as that found on the 9M or the R-73/R-27
the explosive mass/warhead often crits without doing the damage of a 9M.
Its not good enough for top tier but still strong for the 11.0-11.3 BR.
Real talk now the Magic 2 should be able to pull 50G, it should have the best ingame IRCCM resistance. But its nerfed for balance.
Pretty much agree with all your points but will say the AAM3 is just a better 9M. Not substantially better but a decent amount better flight characteristics, arguably the best missile in the game for the majority of situations you find yourself in RB. AAM3 can hit some stupid shots the 9M could never hit. Kind of makes it feel like an R73 for more standard engagement ranges.
The R73 is pretty insane but not nearly as versatile as a 9M/AAM3 or Magic 2. By far the best dogfight missile and its not even close, but dogfighting isn't the meta at all. Even before we got missiles like the R-73 and stuff you rarely rarely got an opportunity to dogfight in top tier matches. I'd much rather have a 9M in most situations even though the thrust vectoring is funny.
When it comes to Magic 2's the biggest issue with them is you just don't get enough of them. I think after the buffs they are a contender for the best missile in the game but you only get 2 of them outside of the Mirage 4000. And since all the top missiles are pretty much guaranteed kills if you use them right, thats a pretty massive detriment since most other planes in the BR bracket will be getting 4 or more.
@@lukewhitehouse4103 10-20 seconds? What the fuck are you talking about lmfao. The arming time is more than the R-73 but not by a lot. It's about 1 second. Guidance delay is 0.12 seconds which is in line with other top tier missiles, it just obviously doesn't have thrust vectoring. It also literally has the same exact IRCCM as the R-73. Like its just copy pasted my guy.
It's also great in a headon, directly counters R-73's lmfao. Idk what the fuck you're doing but holy shit, you make it sound like you're using Aim 9B's. Even the pre-buff Magic 2's are substantially better than you seem to think. Are you like delusional or something?
the r73's irccm isnt even comparable to the aim9m's the r73 starts eating flares once its not within around 1.5km, while the aim9m will literally fly for 4km ignoring flares
You can fairly easily defeat 9M by changing direction while flaring as 9M relies on inertial guidance while it shuts off it’s seeker to ignore flares, so if you change course you can defeat it, whereas R-73 is almost a guaranteed kill if the target doesn’t flare before the missile is 1.5-2km away
@@CallofWarQC More like 0.5-1km away. At 1.5km it goes after flares like some r60 shit nowadays
@@CallofWarQC I think you are ignoring a few important points, first while 9M can be defeated by changing directions, it requires the missile to be at least 2km+ if it was fired rear or side-aspect. Second, the R-73 despite it suppose to have better iccm, is if not one of the most easily flared top tier IRCCM missiles in the game when shot above 1km rear/side aspect. Throughout my time playing since the F16C/Mig 29 SMT was released, I noticed the R-73s were quite easy to flare, it usually took 1-3 pops of flares for them to lose lock when playing with and against it. The only times I've died to R-73s were when I wasn't paying attention, ran out of flares and/or it was really close range (0.5-1km). The aim 9M on the other hand I noticed were much harder to flare due to requiring a lot of flares, it has a longer range, and requires maneuvering to defeat it, not to mention it also gets a smokeless motor. If we look at the planes that face aim 9Ms, planes like the Mirage f1C, Ja37D, Gripen, F-15, and F-14B (let me know if I missed some planes with more than 200 flares) have one of the best chances due to having a lot of flares enabling them to be able to defeat the aim 9M. Meanwhile planes like the Mig 29, F-16, Mirage 2000, F4s, and Mig 23s have limited number of flares, with the majority having around 60 flares, and only a few of the having about 120 flares (while this is a decent amount, it's still usually not enough especially at top tier but at least it can help defend against a few IRCCM missiles), especially when taking mixed. It practically due to these reasons that the aim 9M is better than the R-73. And if we then add the AAM-3, which is the Aim 9M, but can pull 40g and has more explosive mass, then you practically have the best IR missile in game.
To be honest, the best IR missiles goes like this, 1) AAM-3, 2) Aim 9M, 3) R-73, 4) Magic 2s (Due to IRCCM and the drag change buff that makes it really good), 5) R-27ET (Despite having IRCCM, it still can get easily flared and usually most kills are due to the fact its launched from long range and people aren't pre-flaring, and/or opponent is not aware), and 6) R-27T
Eh. I disagree. The Aim 9M is dodged with game knowledge. The R73 isn’t consistently dodgable at the moment under 1.75 kilometers, which is similar to the magic 2
@@SilentButDudley you can test it urself lol, i flare away r73’s all the time, and aim9ms require so much more effort to dodge, out of 100 deaths 10 of them are to r73’s and then like 60 of them are to aim9ms or variants, and then on top of that playing both the f16c and su27 the aim9m kills whatever it’s launched at 98% of the time while the r73 goes for a single flare
i was looking for a missle ranking video and now i found one thank you so much
being a fan of perennial is like being a fan of your favorite TH-camr from the early 2000’s (they don’t upload anymore)
2:15 for the AIM-9E, I think it's worth mentioning that it also has an upgraded motor; the same as the AIM-9J.
Not in game lmao
@@quantumsniper9433 yeah it does
@@collander7766 No it does not
I have played US 10.0+ air for over 600 battles. The 9E does not hit jack shit above 1.5km
The 9J however can go out to 2-2.5km
@@quantumsniper9433 the aim9e and aim9j have the same motor (the 9e even accelerates slightly faster because it's lighter)
@@quantumsniper9433they have the same motor bud
As a brit I love our missile development. Fireflash beam riders, firestreak and red tops for bombers, sraam experiment then we stop for however long we stopped for. I guess the skyflash but they were just modifications. Then out of no where we make the ASRAAM which just topples every other IR missile in terms of range excluding the r27et and then the meteor which is just in a whole world of its own.
9D is at the very least C tier, uncaged seeker on the 9G doesn't justify 2 tiers of difference.
R-3S is worse then 9B because the R-3 has a worse seeker (3.5km instead of 4km) so it will loose lock more easily against enemys showing their side or at range.
Shafrir 2 is hot doo doo, I will take 9Es over it any day of the week. It is incredibly slow, has no range and although the seeker is uncaged the seeker camera is still the same as on the 9B meaning that 18G pull doesn't actualy matter because as soon as your enemy starts turning he will be side aspect to the missile and because of the s*** seeker it will loose lock and self destruct.
Otherwise the list is mostly agreeable.
R3S has a different motor as well less thrust i think a longer burn time but don't quote me on that part.
I actually don't think that there is any point in shooting AIM9B or R3S from 4-3.5 km since their max speed is pathetic 1.7M which arguably not great. They are rear-aspect and as it turns out it's not recommended shooting them from distance no longer than 2.5 km . However, R3S has more explosive stuff in it (8.8 kg eq. Against 7.62kg). That actually isn't noticeable, so both missiles suck.
Alright, now I just waiting for the SARH missile tier list.
Ive hit 5 km shots with the magic 2 to by leading it, they really improved its range with the drag values
Idk if you’ve used the aam-3 before but it truly is smokeless and does leave a visible trail behind the missile making it completely invisible
Getting up to 10.3 with jets made me realize how much decompression is still needed. Using RB24J against all aspects, early SARH, and flares is god awful.
I feel you man. A lot of my favorite jets are unplayable because of compression
I always think about magics in only good aspects. They always work well for me, and Magic 1 for "starter missile" seem really op
Aww you didn't rank my favorite IR missile the: TY-90, Its been damn near unflareable for quite a while and My heli gets 16 of them. I bet it would make a great A or possibly S tier missile. (TY-90 is a Chinese IR guided AAM found in their helicopter tree) This is a good tier list and I will share it with a few friends of mine.
Oh yeah that would definitely be #1. I was sticking to missiles found in Air RB, I guess I should have made that more clear lol.
@@perennialEjust rename the video to contain air rb/ab in it xd
Aim9E actually has 11gs of pull, it doesn’t say so on the stat card, but it does in the files
Red top and SRAAMs should be S+ tier
lmao maybe when the SRAAMs were first added
@@F-18Superi remember there being a massive outrage when the GR1 was added and the videos of battles being over in just afew minutes from SRAAM spam but the missile now is just kinda mid. What happened? Did they nerf its range?
@@cookiecraze1310
HEAVILY. If something is flying away from it and is further than 1km then the missile will just blow itself up.
@@cookiecraze1310 The difference is mostly that flares kiiiinda werent a thing back then except on like a few planes (f4e, FGR.2, mig21bis, other Harriers mabye one im forgetting?) and all that it saw was f86 and mig15s who just kinda died to it since it came in at br 9.3 (gotta remember that this was the era when things like the f100 and T2 were at br 10.0 and sabres were 9.0+). Made playing anything in that completely bracket impossible. The missile was also more consistent back then. Sometime since the tracking has gotten a little less reliable (also it straight broke several times where it wouldnt track at all).
oh they nerfed EVERYTHING about that missile after everyone bought the premium lmao. flare resistance went out the window, they sometimes just.....explode on their own etc. They essentially gave it the AIM-7M treatment.@@cookiecraze1310
I think when discussing missile maneuverability, too much emphasis is put on the maximum G load. I see maximum G as an enabler of the real means of missile agility... fin angle (motor impulse and burn time plays a big role too, but talking about that would make this thesis longer than it's already gonna be). The Aim-9D/G/H is not more maneuverable than the Aim-9B/E just because its G limit got raised to 18 over 10. It's also because the Aim-9B/E has 9.9 degrees of fin angle while the Aim-9D/G/H has 15.3 degrees. This allows the missile to make in theory, a 50% tighter turn. A somewhat similar theory example can be seen with the Aim-54. It has a 17G overload, but sucks at snap turning because is has only 11.2 degrees of fin angle. It can only really use all of those 17G's at crazy high speeds. Other examples exist like R-60/M vs Aim-9L/M. Both are 30G missiles, but R-60 has 15.2 degrees of fin angle while Aim-9L/M has 24.3 degrees. Python 3 and AAM-3 both have 40G overloads. But Python has 22.5 degrees of fin angle while AAM-3 has 25 degrees. Probably the most extreme example I can think of would be Magic-1/2 vs R-27T/ET. They both have 35G overloads. But Magic has 15.2 degrees of fin angle while R-27 has an eye-watering 28.8 degrees. If you've ever shot an R-27 at a crazy high off-bore and watched it crank across your screen at unholy rates and wondered how it pulls that tight, this is why.
A near perfect example can actually be seen with SARH missiles. The Skyflash SuperTEMP and the Aim-7F/M both have 25G overloads. So why is the Aim-7F/M so much harder to kinetically dodge (when you're in a position to do so at all)? It's because the SuperTEMP has the same 20.7 degrees of fin angle the Aim-7E had, while the Aim-7F/M has 27 degrees. Shoot enough of them at off-bore angles and you'll see just how much tighter the F/M pulls.
Oh em gee, it's PerennialE! I'm such a big fan, like almost as big as the Ventamatic Big Air Indoor Industrial Ceiling Fan!
I freaking love the R-60Ms they're hilarious
Especially in sim 😁
Fun fact, the German aim-9b fgw2 is the equivalent to the aim9f in game
Radar missile tierlist when? 🤩
Soon 😉
@@perennialE I can only disagree with this video as the 9E is just upgraded 9B when 9D feels like one or two classes higher completely different missile than 9E with much greater chance of hit and more range, 9G is just slightly upgraded 9D that dont differ as much as it has also 18G and 9D should be placed in the same tier as 9G
No way bro put the Magic 2 in A tier. I want to see Perennial try and flare a Magic 2 at 0.5 miles rear aspect (impossible)
But you'd need to get that close first. And considering the br those missiles are at, you're more than likely gonna die trying to get that close. Coupled with the fact that the missile takes a whole 2 seconds to start turning, you also gotta be directly behind the person. The range is also lackluster. At 0.5km you're probably gonna be more effective with an aim 9l since rise time is a thing now. So yea, a missile being damn near unflarable in specific scenarios doesn't completely define how good it is. And like he said, it's just his opinion, which we're all entitled to have. A person's playstyle is also a factor in how good a missile is so it'll definitely differ from person to person.
@@stringz4862 The Magic isn't incapable of range. If the target is slow enough it can hit targets around 2 miles. The Magic 2 is a guaranteed kill if the target doesn't flare 1 second after it launched which happens 95% of the time. If you have a plane with Magics behind you you cannot take your eyes off of him for one second or a Magic 2 will already close its FOV enough that flares do nothing. Also with the amount of countermeasures flying around top tier IRCCM is a necessity and the Python 3 doesn't cut it anymore. The Magic 2 is... If I get within 1 mile rear aspect there's nothing he can do and the Python 3 is... I hope he doesn't flare from that range which he usually does. Also the Magic 2 has better initial pull than even missile except the R-73, and R-60M the youtubers are lying to you so if your 0.5 mile target is getting fired by an Aim-9L rather than a Magic the Magic would still be more effective anyway. I was dogfighting with my friend yesterday him in his Gripen dumping flares and rolling and I locked him at 0.5 miles and killed him, preflaring with a flare cloud, nothing he died.
At ranges where the Magic 2 becomes unflareable you've likely already won that fight with a gunshot. The real strength of the Magic 2 is ironically in the head on, despite the fuse delay, because if you know the perfect spacing, the hard acceleration of the Magic 2 can close the gap where it is flareable very fast, which is good for missiles with IRCCM based on FOV.
@@perennialEI’ve been killed by them in exactly that way a LOT
@@perennialE I use the 9M considerably on the Gripen, but consistently wish I had the Magic 2s I get on my Mirage.
Magic 2 with HMD and it's complete inability to be flared rear-aspect within 2km is nuts good - it's the only missile I can fire and truly forget because I KNOW the enemy is dead!
I use the delta wings on the M2k5f to dump speed as quickly as possible and pull an instantaneous verticle turn faster than anything else to point the nose at a merging aircraft and beam them with the crazy acceleration of the Magic.
(Also I think you missed the missile on the Swiss Hunter, which I believe is a modified Aim 9P or 9J)
For germany you forgot 2 missles which are the flz lwf 63/80 on the hunter f.58 and the r-73e on the mig-29g.
The flz lfw is an American AIM-9J and the R-73E is a Russian R-73. They are copy and paste.
@@perennialEthe 63/80 is not a carbon copy, or that is how it seems, as they are easy to flare
@@konigsegg_1to1they’re identical in game
Python 3’s may not be the best but man are they fun to have
Easily one of the most fun missiles when they work
Shafrir 2 my beloved
PEdespair would be an amazing addition to this tier list
Play the Hunter F6 in sim with SRAAMs and you will change your mind, ofcourse the br bracket has to be good.
Some day when I get a HOTAS I'll give it a try. For now though I don't play Sim even though I really want to.
Dude, back when the top tier planes don't have flares, the SRAAMs rules, the gameplay is to just set throttle to 100%, get close to someone, lock it with the missile, and since its uncaged, turn & lead your target, when the range goes under 1KM, fire the missile, it got 100% hit rate, of course back then we got several WT patches regarding the SRAAMs, in some update it's OP, in some update the missile won't track, but all in all, a very memorable time for UK mains
nowadays it got distracted by flares really easily, but sometime, they still manage to surprise someone
I've never not got a hit with the magic 2... with that being said, I have always shot it within 1.5km
I think PL-5B supposed to be higher than R-60M. I played both and i really liked PL-5B because it has a good range and sometimes it ignores flares. R-60M is effective at 2 km and if enemy doesn't see you.
That's a valid opinion, the PL-5B is very good. I could see it going either way.
Yeah its 100% a better missile. It accelerates like crazy and cant be flared easily at all. Firing it at below 2km on a phantom is pretty much a guaranteed kill because of how hot the phantoms engines are.
@@niksonrex88combine that with the fact that because it has a short burntime (but insane acceleration) it's harder to spot for players not paying attention
@@Hoshino_Channel yeah imo its a broken missile. Especially because it also comes on the J-7E which is a UFO if ive ever seen one.
If Gaijin actually made SRAAM work properly it would be by far the best AAM in
Lots of missiles can far surpass the SRAAM’s maneuverability. Keep in mind, it’s 60-70s tech
The AIM-9H has better flare resistance than the G.
The AIM-9M also has a definitely better IRCCM than the R-73. I genuinely wonder if you used some of these after hearing you say these things about them…
No, 9G and 9H have the exact same flare resistance.
Imo the R-73’s and AIM-9M’s IRCCM are different but pretty equal. They are better at different things.
@@collander7766 in the datamines the H has a bit more flare resistance. And no, the AIM-9M definitley has better IRCCM. If youve used both you should be aware of this. Even without looking at the data.
@@niksonrex88 you keep mentioning "data" but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about lol. I'm looking at the missile stats right now and the 9G and 9H have identical seeker stats. Their FOVs are the same and they have the same rangeband values.
As for the 9M vs R-73, as I said, they are different but equal. The R-73 is always going to be more reliable at close range and from rear aspect. The 9M is better from the side aspect and from farther ranges, but is much easier to flare rear aspect.
@der7766 telling me i have no idea what im talking about while looking at the in-game stat card. I just looked at the github datamine and the seeker on the 9H does have a "ratemax" of 20 instead of the 12 on the G variant which means it tracks better. I know i have seen someone mention this and i know what im talking about. And like i said the AIM-9M has better IRCCM because of the thing that you just said. It tracks side aspect despite the flares, something the R-73 doesnt do. And its nigh impossible to flare it rear aspect. You have to do a very specific manouvre (if you werent preflaring) that isnt even possible on some planes. So youre just dead wrong. Did you even use both of them?
@@niksonrex88 no offense but you’re making yourself look a little ignorant here buddy. “Ratemax” is the track rate only. It has absolutely nothing to do with flare resistance. Actually technically it has nothing to do with the missile whatsoever because any track rate above 8°/second performs basically the same (diminishing returns). For all intents and purposes, the 9G and the 9H are identical. In terms of flare resistance though? They are 100% identical.
No, the AIM-9M is not just “better.” That’s just a ridiculous statement to make. They are better *in specific scenarios.* R-73 will always be better at close range and will always be more reliable rear aspect. The 9M is much better side aspect but is also much worse rear aspect. The 9M is so easy to flare rear aspect that it’s ironically easier to flare than the 9L sometimes.
Yes I use the AIM-9M and R-73, and also the Magic 2 (same flare resistance as R-73). It’s pretty clear that you don’t though, considering 9Ms have been out for a while now and you still have no clue how to evade them
R13M1 is more flare resistant than 9P
3 planes got access to FGW2
What is it on other than the F-104G? This is news to me.
it is on both f4f's@@perennialE
Ah, I didn't stock grind those because content creators can have their vehicles spaded. Sorry for being misinformed there!
the aim 9 B fgw.2 is also found on the F4f early and the sea hawk mk100 if I'm not mistaken, But the f4f has better missiles ig.
TY-90's are very nice to use
bro I forgot covid still existed
Historically speaking, at least for a small example:
The israeli air force asked for development of the python 3 to be better than the aim-9L in every aspect, when they got their hands on a r73 and they found out in testings it was better than any of the IR missiles at the time, which is why the python 4 was developed, again to succeed in every aspect.
The python-3 is not an all aspect missile, but it has a very heat sensitive sensor so it can detect targets exhaust from more extreme angels than other rear aspect missiles.
I don't know about the french and japanese ones tho.
Iaf officials admitted that the 1st gen shafrir was sub par and barely usabale, worse in every aspect than aim-9B and its russian copy, and the aim-9D/G were still more favorable by the pilots than the shafrir-2.
Python-3 is an all-aspect missile, both IRL and in WT. You literally said yourself that the Python-3 was supposed to surpass the AIM-9L in every way… well the AIM-9L is all-aspect.
@@collander7766 just quoting pilots and developers tests conclusions.
Magic 1 is like better than AIM-9J in every single aspect now after drag reduction......
I personally think the R24t should be S tier cause u can have it On a mig23ml and I literally just used it in practice and shot down a bot from like 8.5 km away but everything else is balanced.
Being a fan of perennial is like being a fan of IR missiles before IR was invented
Bro really thinks he's Perennial
IMHO PL-5B is better than PL-5C, AIM-9L.
Yes, it's rear aspect but I always got more kills with it.
PL-5C and AIM-9L has wider seeker FoV, it means less flare-ressitance.
PL-5B accelerates very fast and after 2 seconds it goes invisible for quite long distance.
other people have alreayd explained the bad magic 2 take ("at its range you wouldve won with guns") bruh i dont know anyone who can do 2-4km gunshots
the shafrir 2 is arguably in the correct tier (or maybe both it and 9D could be higher). idk about calling its motor as weak It has the same 5 sec burn time and thrust:weight as aim9d/g/h but because of the larger missile body it has more drag and overall comes out to flying slightly slower but its range is still really long. Its better than 9d in short range because same g at lower speed= tighter pull and the uncaged seeker lets you lead it by a lot
Magic 2 can’t reach 2-4 km unless they’re stalling lol
R73 better irccm then 9m? Have you played top tier mate?
yeah, this video is like gaijin employee taking about the game which he doesn't play
I doubt he has any idea how different IRCCMs work. R-73 launched at like 1.5km+ basically doesn't have IRCCM and will eat the first flare it sees.
@@ayfr1249 I doubt you have any idea how to flare 9ms. They are easily flared with just flare, turn, flare, turn. R73s are literal pure death at close range, and at long range you have 27ETs lmfao
@@creepincreepy261 You can't do that in time from close range with 9Ms either.
At ranges that aren't close, you'll still need to flare a bunch and bleed speed in order to dodge it, which is much harder to do than simply flaring once to trick R-73.
Also, you'll need much more flares to trick 9M than R-73 at literally any range, where R-73 at 2km+ behaves just like R-60s and goes for the first flare instantly, since seeker head haven't shrunk enough and still eats flares like candy.
You seriously don't know how their IRCCM works if you suggest using 27ETs at long ranges.
They’re about equal imo. Each of them is better at different things.
Ironically, the 9M is easier to flare rear aspect than the 9L because it’s not worrying about the heat signature of your engine vs the flares, only whether or not there are flares present at all. Which means that any 9M fired from like 0.7+ km rear aspect is pretty much AIM-9B levels of flarability.
Compare that with the R-73, where if you launch it under optimal conditions it is literally unflarable.
Who are you? Perennial doesn't make videos anymore SMH.
I disagree on the SRAAM now that every IR missile is flare hungry expect the very top with IRCCMs this missile is way better than something like an R60. It's got thrust vectoring so it's pull is insane. During dogfights you can literally hit anyone from any angle. I slept on the SRAAM as everyone is bashing it but i got an insane amount of kills with it during my Brit grind with the Harrier Mk1 last month since most people just don't expect the crazy angle launches you can do with it. Now sure it's not the best missile and it's ultra short range but the surprise factor is very high with it at 9.7
Curiously how people like to put down aim9B's meanwhile, I have over 50% kill ratio with those missiles, way WAY more than with AiM 9Ms
I'm using B's at 8.0 against clumsy early jets and props and if you know when and how to use them, they are surprisingly effective.
R-27T/ET have 35 G pull Smhing my head Mr.Perennial
I am sobbing because I have accidentally spread lies and misinformation on the internet
youre wrong about the magics, maybe u havent used them since the drag changes? cause i've been launching my magic 1 from 4kms since those changes
Can you make a video on how to use the R73s? Unless I'm below like 2km rear aspect, I never seem to avoid flares with those.
Don't listen to this guy's videos.
Dude unironically put R-73 as the best IR missile in the game lol.
@@ayfr1249 cope
@@ayfr1249I know right? Lol
You forgot the missiles on the hunter
You are way underating the aim9d, its almost as good as the g
They’re in all ways identical, except the D has a caged seeker. Which isn’t good
Magic in C tier?
It has very good range and very good pull
The SRAAM should have the range of an early AIM-9, Gaijin refuse to acknowledge the sources.
R73 is below F tier. 11.0 and higher with non-functional irccm and loses stability then tumbles when having to pull over 25g.
you sound rediculous lol, r73s are insane. It sounds like you have a really bad case of skill issue my friend.
USSR can't get a decent fucking short range missile
I can’t tell if this is bait. Massive skill issue either way
@@russia983 massive skill issue if you think r73 is bad lol it’s definitely like top 2 best ir missles in the game
Sad Swiss hunter noise
Where does the R60MK come cos I can have some games where it pulls insane and get 5 kill games with it and other times feels like I’m launching one of those streamer balloons where it doesn’t pull at all 😂
The R-60MK is the same missile as the R-60M. Russia loves to give its export items different letters :)
just you wait, we will get the Asraams, the reckoning will come
Strong disagree on Red Top and SRAAM. SRAAM is basically inescapable within range, simply because it's stupid fast and has absurd manouverability. Red Top meanwhile, yes, isn't all that long-ranged... But it's ALMOST all-aspect and can get locks at silly angles all the time. Combine that with its extreme gimbal limit and it can do some very silly things which people don't see coming. Also, while it's very short ranged at low altitude, if you're high up, above about 5km, it grows a long, long pair of legs that people often don't see coming.
SRAAM is slow as hell bruh
Aim 9c best heat seeker :Troll face:
I love using that on F8E, its fun watching them panick on what to do when they equip all flares instead of mixed.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but you are tripping if you think the 27ET is better overall then the Aim-9M. the IRCCM that the ET has will go for flares up till about 3km, and if you aren't using them like an R-73 or Aim 9m and shooting them within 3km at a target that doesn't know you are shooting at them it will miss. It can be helpful but the IRCCM on the 27ET and the 27T are not good enough that they should at all beat out the Aim 9m.
Personally I think the 24T is honestly even better then the 27T simply because the MiG-23 gets to see lower rank vehicles at 11.3 compared to the 27T only being avalible for 12.0-12.3 vehicles, but if you aren't considering that point, then yeah it is better then the 24T.
No way R73 has good ICCM. single flare and wooooosh
sounds like a skill issue, learn to fire your missles
@@mig29913 skill issue is war thunder top tier. Its furball without any strategy untill they reduce amount of playerd per battle
@@mig29913 literally lmao. It’s easily the hardest missile to dodge/flare when launched under the proper conditions.
>R73 best IRCCM
No ofence dude, but have you even played with them? Despite 40g pull and bigger effective distance - it is as shitty in term of flares resistance as R60M, and can effectivelly kill only on 1,5 km range
1.5km is huge at most Air RB games. If you want to fire a missile further than that the R27ET exists for a purpose.
Skill issue. Obviously you’re entitled to your own opinion, but as soon as you say some goofy shit like “is as shitty in term of flare resistance as R60M.” Yeah cope bud. You clearly only play Russia
Let me guess, you launch R-73s headon from 5 km and then wonder why they get flared lmao
You forgot the S+ missiles, Fireflashes
id put the firestreak higher up honestly
Aim 9m better than r-73. R73 is hard to get the IRCCM lock
Erm actually the AAM-3 has the best IRCCM in game (according to oxy and that egg head on the streams)
It has identical IRCCM to the 9M
M9-E should be an F tier believe me. I was playing with an F5 and 800 m from me there was an A10 and well not only was it exactly straight I needed to throw two missiles because the one missed for no reason at all
the f-4f can also take the FGW2 but yeah no one is taking it anyway XD
W background music
Only the best for my viewers 🔥
Where are the helicopter missiles?
Don’t all the R-27s have 35Gs
Flare rise time was a mistake
I actually like flare rise time because you can't just instant beat every missile at every range, but it can be frustrating sometimes when you're on the receiving end of missiles not caring
@@perennialE Yeah I generally like it most of the time too since it punishes you more for letting someone get onto your six. Its mainly annoying for me when I begin to flare a missile just a tiny bit too late and then it becomes near unflareable. It does make killing big hot targets like bombing Kfirs or F-4s pretty easy though.
can you do a tierlist with radar missles?
Yessir, it's on the list
saying that the 9L eats flares is wild
They do, just pop some flares, ni burner and basic turn
that doesnt work for me
@@joens- depends from what distance they shoot it, less than 1km is certain death
u can out turn at less than 1km but usually they ignore at 3ish km launches for me
feels almost criminal to be this early
Where is the er1? Did I miss something??
where is the PL-8?
As a ground main who rarely plays jets, r60 is absolute dog shit of a missile, if an enemy sees that you fired he can just pop even 1 flare and it's gg, while u sit there in your su22m3 and eat all the missiles in your face with almost 0 chance of doing anything against it...
The missiles that you face in the Su-22 are just as easy to flare as the R-60 tbh
@@collander7766 Not really, f5 and a10 which is the most common at that br hits you without breaking a sweat, not even gonna mention uptiers...
@@Sveta7 the F-5 carries AIM-9Es or Js… even the AIM-9L isn’t hard to flare. Pretty much every non-IRCCM missile can be decoyed with a single flare pop
Btw 27ET and 27T have 35G of pull
Yeah I realized this after I posted the video, I accidentally spread misinformation (though 30 vs 35 isnt that big a difference)
I agree with "British Missiles (bad)"
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS FINALLY!!!!!!
You never talked about the PL-7????
PL-7 is just a Magic 1
SRAAM are the worst things I have ever used and glad to get off them soon
Dissing SRAAM like that is just evil.
I like how US mains are crying how AIM-9Ms are better than the R-73 just because of the IRCCM, and they forget the fact that R-73 pulls much more G’s and has a larger proximity fuse which makes it 10 times more better in a dogfight. Okay, let’s say the AIM-9Ms are better than the R-73, but they will NEVER be better than the R-27ET, the goat of Sim battles. The ET simply outranges 90% of RADAR missiles in the game, and you need to predict if someone fired one at you or not.
Naaah AIM-9M is number 1, cant flare front aspect while pulling maneuver even at 3KM. either bug atm or BS
Skill issue
The 9M is especially easy to flare front aspect
where is the R27 ER !!!????
Red top Irl , Great missle with usable range that was ahead of its time, Used up until the the Mid 70s and then still used on the RAFs Bomber interceptor Force through the 80s . Red top in war thunder ........... May as well throw a brick out the Cockpit. I swear these devs are braindead.
Aim 9B, B stands for Best. Everything else is just a bad sequel
You are severely underestimating the AAM-3 , unless you are in a turn fight the AAM-3 is the best missile in the game right now i shoot it head on from 3/4 km and they dont care about flares at all
R27 has less range than r24 even tho the motor burns longer so fix Ur list ig
R-27 has IRCCM and pulls 11 more G
R-60MK?
Being a fan of perennial is like cheating on an exam
R--73 should be A tier, its an AIM9L, while R73E should be S tier... and still not a huge fan of it, rather have AIM9M.
Shafrir 2 is aim 9B so i don't get why its better....
otherwise good video
R-73 and R-73E are identical bro.
And no, Shafrir 2 is much better than AIM-9B. 18G overload and 5 second burn time.
PL-15 is gonna hit hard when they add BVRAAMs
R-73 IRCCM is Dogshit, only works if you shot the nose of the enemy (if works cuz it can just eat the flares at back, so AIM-9M is fucking OP
magic 2 are better than r73 in flare resistance and stability XDD
They have identical flare resistance
Wheres TY-90
British missiles may not be the best but they easily have the coolest names