@@whiskey910 first step practice some basics and basics of control and engagement. Being in that situation is more related to your setup. Also just cause rwr goes off doesnt always mean its an enemy. Friendly radar can also show up. There are some more things but i recomend starting there. I can help practice sometimes
The problem comes when you are being targeted by 3 or 4 AHR missiles and you cannot notch them all at the same time. These real life tactics are used in real scenarios. And there is no recorded battle fearuring 16vs16 planes at the same time in a small area. This game isn't ready for Fox-3. Heck it even wasn't ready for advanced fox-2.
@@daisukekazumi2399i think you didnt see his point, how can you defend if theres multiple fox 3s coming at you at multiple different directions and sticking with your team doesnt really help when they have their face caved in from having the same problem, 16v16 is too chaotic and unpredictable to have proper stratergy
@@dsg4500the point is that won’t happen if you position right. If you’re down bad enough to have 3-4 fox 3s coming at you from a bunch of different angles you are simply too close to the enemy. Basically you done messed up if that happens
@@dsg4500 exactly what zach said, wtf u were doing to have a fox3 coming from you 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock at the same time? How did you put yourself in that situation?
2:45 this strategy wont work on F-4F ICE. The reason: 1. The plane cant turn and need more time to turn compared to other gen 4 fighter at those BR. 2. You lose a lot of speed and energy then become food for enemy plane who launch the missile and see advantage to execute you. 3. Your plane was garbage.
This is why light weight fighter mafia argued that excessive weight would have severely debilitating consequences on the maneuverability of an aircraft, F-4 Phantom was one of the overweight aircraft. So, they proposed fighters should be lighter and have better energy retention to do intensive maneuvers to counter enemy aircrafts and to dodge missiles. Hence, F-15, F-16 and F/A-18 were born to deal with the threats. On the other hand, now electronic countermeasures are getting more advanced, so it makes current fighters more fighting chance to deal with ARH missiles than before.
You've never played F-4E/F prior. 1- The plane turns really well, and is easy to defeat ARHs. 2- This is extremely false. F-4E retains energy rather well. 3- Also wrong.
@@JohnDegurechaff lol I have 7 F-4. 2 from German, 2 from Japan, and 3 From US tt. Wdym I never play F-4, I know all F-4 gameplay mainly the german one which is have better turn rate than other F-4. But at those BR face Gen 4 fighter make this plane become garbage. This plane have no different with flying casket at those BR. Your argument is only works for F-4 on BR 10 - 11.7 more than it this plane is garbage. Did you know at 12.7 this plane cant match the speed of gen 4 fighter. "Oh AV-8 amd Tornashit bla bla bla 12.7"... Cmon, those nation have better option who can carry 120s. And dont forget Av-8 being meme plane where it just hovering behind the mountain and launch the AIM-120 from short range.
@@ReviveHF its amusing to me how people still believe pierre sprey and his cronies, when they say they are the fathers of the F-15, F-16 and F/A-18 when their only "proof" or "source" are what they say and a book that one of them has written lol. the fighter mafia's design proposals where all garbage and hence rejected, and they where not involved in the design of either of the above airplane. heck they even argued against them because all of those use advanced radar and fire control systems, something the fighter mafia despised. pierre sprey is a con-artist, dont repeat his bullshit.
@@beerenthuizer5221 Nah, the seeker quite literally doesnt lose lock. It tracks you even if you make turns behind a mountain after its fired at you. Thats not iog lmao.
The only real way to do it is to approach within range of your dogfight ir missiles around 3km. To do this when you don't have chaff you need to take advantage of multipathing (stay within 60m of the ground). Watch out though many trees in this game can be as tall as 100m and they do not cause multipathing. In reality my best advice is to try to take advantage of multipathing by finding flat ground with few or no trees, or to place terrain between you and the missile. Its hard to get good results this way but it is possible good luck guys.
Please make the smaller team size toggle a guarantee instead of a chance. Some people are only getting smaller matches every 5th or 6th game at best and always at the highest lobby size of 12v12. I’ve had it on since patch day and haven’t seen a single match that wasn’t 16v16. When small matches like 8v8 become more common, this tutorial will become far more useful as messy overcrowded airspace becomes less common.
@@HadamacikTheProphet priority is over 16v16 so when people are in matchmaking even if there's 20/24 people to launch a small size team and there is 8 more people without the toggle on you will launch a normal game.... which is ridiculous
@@Nokknokkopenup lol AIM120A seeker is so week when trying to follow a plane that is notching. i already did. More easy than you think. Sometimes it piss me off. But i'ts A version so i'ts good enough
This is nice advice vs 1 single Fox-3. How do I dodge the 96+ Of them coming off the rails after take off? When can we see smaller lobbies as default for Fox-3 Jets at least. How about a new game mode? How about Enduring Air RB 8v8 or 10v10/12v12 below 12.0 lobbies? RWR Is barely useful in these 16v16 lobbies, there's a good chance now at 13.0 that 50+ missiles are live at all times in the first 5 minutes, your RWR is pinging random missiles from all directions, and again this is a problem of 16v16. Gaijin please make a new gamemode with less players and steer us away from ace combat simulator? You could make the gamemode loadout based people with Fox-3 and/or max limit missile loadouts go one lobby with less players? (Helps stock grinders) That way people who want big lobbys or a saner stock grind can play without Fox-3s or max missile count and do their thing, enjoy the furball.
There aren't 96 flying at you. In-fact, there's rarely ever 2 flying at you unless you intentionally bait for your friendly team. Go play arcade for smaller lobbies since you want Ace Combat.
@@JohnDegurechaff It's ironic that the guy who enjoys a 32v32 lobby with a clapback to my example of 96 missiles being the minimum that fully spaded 13.0 lobby will be carrying PER TEAM says I should go play ace combat. Whilst also being completely off my point rofl. Bro is finally good for an update because he bound TWS and pressed spacebar, got 3 kills and thinks it was skill.
@@ElderWillows 32v32 isn't a thing. Ace Combat is arcade, and low-player counts is arcade which is why Ace Combat PVP has low player counts. ARHs aren't undefeatable, never have been. I've yet to die to an ARH at 13.0.
3:00 "turn on your chaff, and the missile flies right past you!" imma be honest with you Gaijin that is the biggest lie I've ever heard, I have yet to find a moment where chaff has ever saved me from a fox 3
At most just using chaff saves you from TWS locks and prevent enemies from locking you with HMS/HMD but otherwise chaff shouldn’t be used as if it’s flares. Either notch and then chaff or turn around and drop chaff (Obviously chaff/flares aren’t gonna save you against any top tier missile if you’re in the
Video : "immediatly turn to the side to leave the missile behind you (...) turn on the regular schaff and the missile changes its course and flies passed you" *epic music* Reality : missile going through schaff or ahead of the aircraft and gets one tap everytime
"Now, what about super-long-range launches, like from 20KM and further?" - The incredibly cramped / small air maps make so much sense now. Gaijin thinks 12 miles is "super long range"....
That's what I do. Or take off and turn 100 degrees around and "climb cold" until I get to 10000m before even thinking about looking for targets. That high it's easy to bleed the energy from most because 5 min in they're being fired from below by planes that started diving 3 min ago while I was climbing cold.
Nice guide for 1v1 combat with competent air frames (i.e. not a Harrier). And you kind of ignored how some planes need to get well under 5km (because they don't have or even cannot have radar missiles).
@@goliath3413yeah lol and the thing the guy is talking about are revolving around various other tactics to learn abd practice. Sim also can help as an equalizer
this is great and all but what happens if you are in a stock plane? and when you add in that there are 32 players with these missiles? lowering multipath without changing player count or the spotting system was a bad move.
They did lazily added an option that is nowhere mentioned. The legend says there was one 12v12 battle (wow only 24 planes each carrying 4+ FOX-3s) that did happen.
@@yourfavoritepereh1268 It's 12v12 and I've kept stats on how often those games appear with the setting on. 106 games since patch. 12 of those were 12v12.
Well he seemed to speak of a more energy based approach to the dodge in that segment of the video, notching relies on exploiting old doppler radar single-axis velocity measurements, maintaining a constant radial distance from the radar emitter which can trick the radar into thinking you are at zero-velocity. This tech works best against stationary SAM site radars, as it is easier to maintain a notch for a long period of time when orbiting a stationary ground radar. This technique will not work well against pulsed doppler radar which can measure both distance and velocity at the same time. And will work even less so against Air to Air FOX-3, especially if the missile radar returns are combined with the plane's radar for tracking.
That’s because that’s not notching, notching is flying at 90 deg to the direction the plane/missile is traveling in and it’s almost never the same as 3/9 which is putting the missile at 90 deg to the direction you’re traveling in. Extremely important distinction
"You don't. thanks for watching!" (top tier went from horrible to unplayable with this update in my honest opinion, at this point I would REALLY like to see an IR-only gamemode. or at least make top tier matches 6v6 at most)
1:43 From a Falcon BMS player: This process is called 'Notching'. You put the missile on your 3/9 line because missiles always fly an intercept path towards you from the moment they are launched. Doing this forces the missile to expend extra energy trying to lead you thus giving it a harder time trying to hit you. edit: 2:45 this is called dragging the missile and it only works if you have enough speed to even outrun the missile to begin with. There's a lot more to BVR (Beyond Visual Range) fights than what is explained here and it's a very interesting thing to learn about and I hope the more realistic tactics can be used
by Any Chance, an aircraft of a fighter jet choice, has a really good climb rate, you can use your climb in altitude as the missile gets pulled by Gravity (Which is down), Air Resistance (Which is against the missile's trajectory its facing) and Lack of fuel to continue its propel as the fighter jet has more fuel to climb, as the fuel burn on the motor of the missile dies it loses its climb gain eventually failing to pursue but thats just my experience on how I've dealt with missiles before.
Depends. If you fly behind a mountain and then radically change course, the missile will continue to try to intercept your last known trajectory, thus you'll evade it.
@@dreccasawa9975 but they wont do that, ever, if you were to test that with a friend and then watch the tacview thing you'll see the seeker still tracks the plane through the terrain
@@jarfmusic no, but the missiles is and most of the time you go behind terrain to mask a pitbull missile, which means that that pitbull missile is still tracking you.
Are you sure it’s pitbull? I’ve avoided missiles that were using a mountain and the lock breaks. There a chance the missile is still being guided by TWS track memory
Yes it does chaff so you don’t get locked fire two of your own missiles turn, fly away and repeat. Use your radar and don’t fly into groups of enemies pick one or two off and run away.
@@chipper9178 ...you do not have to repeat what they said in the vid, i got that, but this doesn't work if there are 16 enemys coming from different directions. Top Tier Realistic is like arcade. If I pick one or two off the enemy, 4 people of the enemy team will pick off me. If I'm turning away to go cold i will get radar lock from the next 2 enemys flying towards me from the other direction. This whole thing only works for the first encounter...and only if you're and the enemy are lonely
@@TheJackSilence obviously you still don’t understand… if you pick off the first two and run away their missiles will never catch you unless your waiting to fight people less than 10 miles away. Even up close you can win if you’re skilled I’ve dodge multiple enemy missiles and teammate missiles in a fur ball by notching/chaff the first one then multi path the next and repeat.
And what if I decide to utilize an aircraft with low stalling speed, high maneuvrability and an average speed of 250 km/h at ground level? Asking for science
Please make all matches smaller at top tier; these may work if it’s only a few missiles but with teams of 12, each plane carrying about 2 missiles, that’s 24 missiles that are all flying towards you and your team. Many planes carry more than 2 as well, that number was just to average out the poor stock players who need to survive up there with no chaff or fox 3 missiles of their own.
This Update is very fun for the most part, Except when 7 missile form 4 directions come at you at the same time making it near impossible to notch them all at once, this problem would be rather easily fixed by having less people in each match. What was that? There´s an option to get smaller lobbies?! Oh, what a shame it´s only one in very 20-30 rounds too bad....... PLEASE making like 10v10 or 8v8 the DEFAULT and if someone should want 16v16 give them a switch to enable such matchmaking, but so far EVERYONE I´ve talked to hates 16v16s SPAMRAAM clusterfucks and would not mind waiting the extra 10 seconds in the "split"(large games and small ones) queue to get a fun experience.
I’m curious to know how you get in such a situation that missiles coming from all 4 directions is possible? 😳 All enemy missiles at the start are generally gonna come from the same direction i.e. in front of you so if you notch one (with minor adjustments for those you aren’t notching) you’ll eventually notch all incoming. In such a scenario where you end up in a fox-3 furball as you say you can simply fly low (~60 metres/160ft and below; roughly tree top height) and pay attention to any Fox-2 (heat seeking) missiles that are headed in your general direction and flare accordingly
If you're close to the missile heading towards the enemy (since you probably are trying to guide your own missile), what I like to do anywhere from 15 to 25 mi. is to turn to the gimbal limits of the radar for a few seconds to save some time and bleed the missile, then turn upside down and start pulling towards the ground (losing altitude also helps bleed speed in thicker air, while your aircraft maintains its speed in a turn) until you reach the opposite gimbal limit (still in a dive), then break off and let your missile do its thing once it's gone pitbull, and turn away. Do a zigzag maneuver while flying away from the missile, and while gradually flying towards the ground. This almost always bleeds it completely. Then turn back in and gain speed and altitude. If you successfully bleed the missile before turning cold, then don't go cold. Often, if the distance is greater, you can crank from one side to the other of the gimbal limit whole decreasing altitude and maintaining lock, and if the enemy doesn't do the same, you either gain the advantage as they go cold, or your missile hits them while they fly straight and theirs misses. If you are very close, turn away immediately and either go cold if you still have some distance, decrease altitude and maneuver, or fly low to the ground, or try to notch (although notching is very risky).
maybe people will stop charging in and launching all missiles while flying straight into 3 ARH missiles, then joining a new battle to do it again and again and again. 3:15 actually learned a new maneuver, thx guygin
What if you are not alone in the game? What if there are 10 other players after you and all this maneuvering makes you lose speed or favorable position for you to shoot at them?
If thats the case you are too close to the enemy. You shouldn’t be within 15 miles of them. If you’re far enough away you can dodge 20 fox 3’s use your radar so you’re not flying into a blob of enemies. Use chaff long enough not to get locked launch two missile to pick a couple off turn, run, and repeat
@@Alisevenn13 It's not that difficult when you get it down. I once notched 2 in a single game. Although I wouldn't recommend notching unless absolutely necessary. Multipathing is way more consistent and easy to pull off.
That last part only happens when you're at the deck already. Anytime I dive from high alt to the deck, the missile- before reaching the deck- will change it's course to avoid colliding with the ground.
This game went from actual skill wins to random luck. Ah yes let me climb so that I can just get slapped by sparrow or r27er missile while the radar ones are flying at me
When I play on the highest tier, because of the limited capabilities the fox 3 has, I take my battles at up to 11,000m high. That way, everyone at a distance of 10kms below, they fire the missiles; but because I'm all the way high, I'm counting that the missile will loose it's momentum and fall. I'd say 4 out of 10, it works. By biggest disadvantage is that sometimes, the engines will stall at higher altitude.
Great advice! I'll try to dodge them! 20 minutes later. I wonder when WT publish another advice video explaining how to dodge 64 missiles launched at the same time
"This video is an actual representation on how to evade Fox-3 missiles" Proceeds to show how to evade SINGLE missile. In the meantime, despite enabled option for reduced player amount in matches, you end up in 16 v 16 games 98% of times and enemy just slinged 6-7 missiles towards you while being on a shitty flat map with zero terrain cover whatsoever. Yep, legit representation, we just don't know in which universe.
Thank you for teaching the basics to amateurs, and there will still be people complaining because they want to play stupidly in High Tier by headon in a straight line without learning how to position themselves. In a Ground match, any MBT that enters the open field and accelerates will die to a well-positioned enemy. Now I see many players learning to adapt, using the terrain, the mountains, the scenery to camouflage themselves. I loved seeing some games like this, and I believe that over time, fewer noobs will be in this BR. I would just like to see Air-Air matches like Groung-Air matches, where it doesn't show that the enemy has a red nickname. I understand this exists in WWII matches, but in next-gen fighter matches it's really annoying since Gaijin assumes all players are newbies. The game claims to be "Realistic" and in reality, there is no red marker enemy nickname. If the player wants to play with high BR, he needs to learn how to play. Use the radar, know how to position yourself, know how to maneuver.
With more missiles flying your way the only viable option becomes turning 180 with shallow dive and deploying chaff, assuming that on one was launching missiles form your rear 180 you will survive, but then if the enemy is persistent you won't do anything in the match.
I saw Fox-3 only from ground (not just there yet in jets), but isn't there also 16 targets for the enemy? So they should not all be running at you - or am I mistaken and three planes firing "dual tap" at same target, then multitrack to repeat this three times (6xFox-3), multiplied by whole team doing the very same?
Hopefully people will take the time to watch this video instead of complaining and asking the game to be adjusted to cater their unwillingness to learn to play it properly. Nice video!
There 2 type of people playing RB, pleople that knows about BVR and loved the new update, and people that love furballs and multipath, Gaijin i'ts time to bring new Realistic game mode. I'm playing this game for 12 Years, and this game always forced you to learn about what are you doing. I'ts the realistic battles. But in the last years people that dont know and don't care about learn mechanics. What they do is complain about the game, making RB seems an better arcade mode. So it's time to give what they want. You can take the last update and make a game mode like that, and in the other hand give us more strategic and better objetives to play. I don't want to play simulator battles and buy joysticks for this. I believe in you Gaijin.
As a fairly new player, warthunder needs to listen to its community more. From the history of changes and stuff being added, it’s an unequal mess but still fun. I can see why most players prefer around mid tier combat. It’s a shame because the game could be amazing.
The game is amazing. I can help teach you and practice. Alot of skill issue and bandwagon on rumors and people wanting clout. You can even look through this comment section. Several people tried to clear up missinderstandings of people saying this and that telling the truth about giving tips on how to do things
how play top tier, climb as fast as you can, who cares about speed, launch missiles at 9km up, wait for a few seconds while stalling your plane so you don't get far, get into that 20~km homing range, rtb, reload, and j- out and go to the next match
❤I didnt see it because i dont watch those kind of guys that give mindless dribble for attention. Bad advice and bandwagons. What you do is adjust your flight path. It projects where yiu will be in a memory mode, which is a feature irl.
this only really works in sim. when i have 4 fox3s coming at me from different angles, and a whole enemy team waiting for me to get higher up, thats pretty hard to do.
Thats cool but only works in a direct 1v1 situation. At the current state you dodge one missile BUT HEY there is another one from a completly different direction due to the 16v16 matchmaker. Fox-3 games should be limited to 6v6 at max.
okay but after doing defensive manuvers in the gripen you dont have the Thrust/weight ratio to continue on the aggressive after defending, bvr is quite a one trick pony for the gripen
all fox 3 immune to chaff right now, they lock you up from behind and see you though chaff. You try to notch - missiles like fox 3 have memory and they will continued following your path and re-enable seeker again
So, the Fox-3 introduction became such an issue that even the official content WT channel had to provide basic content about dealing with this issue. if this isn't some sort of admission that Fox-3s are somewhat of a "problem", I don't know what else is.
What do i do if my RWR is literally unreadable from the amount of radar pings and missile launches? Not to mention the clutter from me passing through the beam of a tracking radar/missile Like you just cant make out anything And positioning doesn't do much. You can go to either edge, up in orbit or scraping the trees, rush straight ahead or wait for your team to die. Your RWR will always be full of noise unless your team already wiped the enemies
I've dodged quite a few missiles without knowing the names of the maneuvers. In Sim though, can't imagine playing the arcade modes, feels like a clusterf***. But the new 120 ones are a bit harder to dodge head on from like 3km.
"Just notch bro"
- This video
This is the new side climb meme
Did you not see it work perfectly? Or did we watch a different video?
@@BearcatThunder Great that the video shows an example for one missile and not 10 launched in your direction. You've never played Top Tier before.
The 16 aim-120 in my mig: Nuh uh 🗿
great advice, if you are in a low population environment. Not very feasible to apply in 13.0 Air RB
Works fine in it tbh. Especially the 20+ advice they gave.
@@CaptKashi3 missiles coming at you from 3 different directions. This doesn’t work
@@Idkwhattoput151 it does
if you notch one missile the you turn into another 🤣@@FullThrottleRacing535
@@Idkwhattoput151 skill issue, go back to air to air basics, if you're putting yourself in the way of 3 fox3's, you're the problem
Nice, now show how to evade 5-6 of them at the same time on 16v16 matches
Coming from all sides as well please
The only way is hold J
Impossible in game lmao
"Just hug the ground bro"
@@whiskey910 first step practice some basics and basics of control and engagement. Being in that situation is more related to your setup. Also just cause rwr goes off doesnt always mean its an enemy. Friendly radar can also show up. There are some more things but i recomend starting there. I can help practice sometimes
The problem comes when you are being targeted by 3 or 4 AHR missiles and you cannot notch them all at the same time. These real life tactics are used in real scenarios. And there is no recorded battle fearuring 16vs16 planes at the same time in a small area. This game isn't ready for Fox-3. Heck it even wasn't ready for advanced fox-2.
So you knowing this information you allow the enemy to do that by going into their range of fox3s? Defend, stick with the team, and adapt and learn.
This game don't alow furballs anymore, so you have to position yourself in good spots. the map is big enough.
@@daisukekazumi2399i think you didnt see his point, how can you defend if theres multiple fox 3s coming at you at multiple different directions and sticking with your team doesnt really help when they have their face caved in from having the same problem, 16v16 is too chaotic and unpredictable to have proper stratergy
@@dsg4500the point is that won’t happen if you position right. If you’re down bad enough to have 3-4 fox 3s coming at you from a bunch of different angles you are simply too close to the enemy. Basically you done messed up if that happens
@@dsg4500 exactly what zach said, wtf u were doing to have a fox3 coming from you 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock at the same time? How did you put yourself in that situation?
2:45 this strategy wont work on F-4F ICE. The reason:
1. The plane cant turn and need more time to turn compared to other gen 4 fighter at those BR.
2. You lose a lot of speed and energy then become food for enemy plane who launch the missile and see advantage to execute you.
3. Your plane was garbage.
This is why light weight fighter mafia argued that excessive weight would have severely debilitating consequences on the maneuverability of an aircraft, F-4 Phantom was one of the overweight aircraft. So, they proposed fighters should be lighter and have better energy retention to do intensive maneuvers to counter enemy aircrafts and to dodge missiles. Hence, F-15, F-16 and F/A-18 were born to deal with the threats. On the other hand, now electronic countermeasures are getting more advanced, so it makes current fighters more fighting chance to deal with ARH missiles than before.
You've never played F-4E/F prior.
1- The plane turns really well, and is easy to defeat ARHs.
2- This is extremely false. F-4E retains energy rather well.
3- Also wrong.
@@JohnDegurechaff lol I have 7 F-4. 2 from German, 2 from Japan, and 3 From US tt. Wdym I never play F-4, I know all F-4 gameplay mainly the german one which is have better turn rate than other F-4. But at those BR face Gen 4 fighter make this plane become garbage. This plane have no different with flying casket at those BR.
Your argument is only works for F-4 on BR 10 - 11.7 more than it this plane is garbage. Did you know at 12.7 this plane cant match the speed of gen 4 fighter. "Oh AV-8 amd Tornashit bla bla bla 12.7"... Cmon, those nation have better option who can carry 120s. And dont forget Av-8 being meme plane where it just hovering behind the mountain and launch the AIM-120 from short range.
@@takemikazuchishuichi2269 lol You claim to have played them yet lie about them.
F-4F ICE is 95% of a Mig-29SMT at a lower BR.
@@ReviveHF its amusing to me how people still believe pierre sprey and his cronies, when they say they are the fathers of the F-15, F-16 and F/A-18 when their only "proof" or "source" are what they say and a book that one of them has written lol.
the fighter mafia's design proposals where all garbage and hence rejected, and they where not involved in the design of either of the above airplane.
heck they even argued against them because all of those use advanced radar and fire control systems, something the fighter mafia despised.
pierre sprey is a con-artist, dont repeat his bullshit.
Defyn will do a better guide
At least he’s showing all the quirks like missiles tracking through mountains
i mean depending on how long you are behind a mountain yeah thats possible... its the IOG
@@beerenthuizer5221 Nah, the seeker quite literally doesnt lose lock. It tracks you even if you make turns behind a mountain after its fired at you. Thats not iog lmao.
VTOL planes just sitting behind a mountain 🗿
@@blackop3765yes it has to because of how the coding works in the game…
They fixed that
Q&A How to stock grind air RB 13.0
You don’t (from my experience)
You feed the snail.
You play and eventually you get your fox 3
You can't 😅
The only real way to do it is to approach within range of your dogfight ir missiles around 3km. To do this when you don't have chaff you need to take advantage of multipathing (stay within 60m of the ground). Watch out though many trees in this game can be as tall as 100m and they do not cause multipathing. In reality my best advice is to try to take advantage of multipathing by finding flat ground with few or no trees, or to place terrain between you and the missile. Its hard to get good results this way but it is possible good luck guys.
Please make the smaller team size toggle a guarantee instead of a chance. Some people are only getting smaller matches every 5th or 6th game at best and always at the highest lobby size of 12v12. I’ve had it on since patch day and haven’t seen a single match that wasn’t 16v16. When small matches like 8v8 become more common, this tutorial will become far more useful as messy overcrowded airspace becomes less common.
I've never had a small team size yet and I got it turned on.
@@HadamacikTheProphet priority is over 16v16 so when people are in matchmaking even if there's 20/24 people to launch a small size team and there is 8 more people without the toggle on you will launch a normal game.... which is ridiculous
If you're head-on with an F-15 within 4 miles just accept your fate
WTH IS A KILOMETER
that's why you should avoid head-on's.
@@srgabrielfb your dead when a 120 is launched within 5kms not even in head ons
@@srgabrielfb you can't, but it's best to try
@@Nokknokkopenup lol AIM120A seeker is so week when trying to follow a plane that is notching. i already did. More easy than you think. Sometimes it piss me off. But i'ts A version so i'ts good enough
This is nice advice vs 1 single Fox-3.
How do I dodge the 96+ Of them coming off the rails after take off?
When can we see smaller lobbies as default for Fox-3 Jets at least. How about a new game mode? How about Enduring Air RB 8v8 or 10v10/12v12 below 12.0 lobbies?
RWR Is barely useful in these 16v16 lobbies, there's a good chance now at 13.0 that 50+ missiles are live at all times in the first 5 minutes, your RWR is pinging random missiles from all directions, and again this is a problem of 16v16.
Gaijin please make a new gamemode with less players and steer us away from ace combat simulator?
You could make the gamemode loadout based people with Fox-3 and/or max limit missile loadouts go one lobby with less players? (Helps stock grinders) That way people who want big lobbys or a saner stock grind can play without Fox-3s or max missile count and do their thing, enjoy the furball.
There aren't 96 flying at you.
In-fact, there's rarely ever 2 flying at you unless you intentionally bait for your friendly team.
Go play arcade for smaller lobbies since you want Ace Combat.
@@JohnDegurechaff It's ironic that the guy who enjoys a 32v32 lobby with a clapback to my example of 96 missiles being the minimum that fully spaded 13.0 lobby will be carrying PER TEAM says I should go play ace combat. Whilst also being completely off my point rofl.
Bro is finally good for an update because he bound TWS and pressed spacebar, got 3 kills and thinks it was skill.
solution: Huge maps so you have more space to dodge
@@ElderWillows 32v32 isn't a thing.
Ace Combat is arcade, and low-player counts is arcade which is why Ace Combat PVP has low player counts.
ARHs aren't undefeatable, never have been.
I've yet to die to an ARH at 13.0.
@@roketsnail34 Already added to the game over a year prior.
3:00 "turn on your chaff, and the missile flies right past you!"
imma be honest with you Gaijin that is the biggest lie I've ever heard, I have yet to find a moment where chaff has ever saved me from a fox 3
At most just using chaff saves you from TWS locks and prevent enemies from locking you with HMS/HMD but otherwise chaff shouldn’t be used as if it’s flares. Either notch and then chaff or turn around and drop chaff
(Obviously chaff/flares aren’t gonna save you against any top tier missile if you’re in the
Finally, the F-4S grinders will know how to play their rank 8 jets!
No they won’t 😂 I’ll still get tk’d regularly in air sb br side they don’t know how to read the IFF in PDV mode🙃
@@PvtPartzzyou can lock on to tm in iff?
f4s has semi active radar missiles they are talking about fox 3 active missiles do u even know what ur talking about lol
@@Idkwhattoput151Yes you can. Atleast with some jets
@@Royalasiangamingthe video is called “how to DODGE fox3s”
"you finally dodge the missile"
teammate missile : "are you sure about that?"
"That's the neat part, you don't"- Omlet Man
"Just Nothc and Chaff bro"
Me trying to evade 3 Aim-120s, 2 MIrage's SARH's, and 4 more R-77s: *okay buddy sure*
That's a skill issue then.
@@crad5476I’d love to see you do it then prem noob😂
@@Gyyghhhhjjjkk It's sad to see you don't recognize what sarcasm is and instead decide to insult.
Growling Sidewinder's videos had shown me enough earlier.
Tnx for the recommendation, I will go watch his video now. I forgot about his channel.
@@savasolarov8424yea he teaches a lot go watch his bvr fights
Clearly not a single person who wrote this guide actually played the real game
Video : "immediatly turn to the side to leave the missile behind you (...) turn on the regular schaff and the missile changes its course and flies passed you" *epic music*
Reality : missile going through schaff or ahead of the aircraft and gets one tap everytime
"Now, what about super-long-range launches, like from 20KM and further?" - The incredibly cramped / small air maps make so much sense now. Gaijin thinks 12 miles is "super long range"....
Actually 13 cm is average.
Also they answer that question in thhe video maybe u missed it
Are they only testing new implementations in 1v1 and not the totaly not-chaotic 12v12?
Probably, that would explain a lot...
You can dodge them by sitting on the runway for 5 minutes while everyone fires theirs off 😂
That's what I do. Or take off and turn 100 degrees around and "climb cold" until I get to 10000m before even thinking about looking for targets. That high it's easy to bleed the energy from most because 5 min in they're being fired from below by planes that started diving 3 min ago while I was climbing cold.
just side climb bro
@@humyHumsyong I'll climb in whatever direction I want bro
Reminder that some trees are taller than 60m and 60m is the altitude to multiparth (and the trees don’t count as ground multiparth)
Nice guide for 1v1 combat with competent air frames (i.e. not a Harrier). And you kind of ignored how some planes need to get well under 5km (because they don't have or even cannot have radar missiles).
in a harrier just VTOL and the radar literally wont see you cuz you're a stationary target lol
@@goliath3413yeah lol and the thing the guy is talking about are revolving around various other tactics to learn abd practice. Sim also can help as an equalizer
this is great and all but what happens if you are in a stock plane? and when you add in that there are 32 players with these missiles? lowering multipath without changing player count or the spotting system was a bad move.
They did lazily added an option that is nowhere mentioned. The legend says there was one 12v12 battle (wow only 24 planes each carrying 4+ FOX-3s) that did happen.
They made it an option to switch to 8v8 matchmaking if you want to
@@yourfavoritepereh1268 the switch that hardly gets any matches like that. air rb in top tier should be 12v12 by default, not 16v16.
@@yourfavoritepereh1268 It's 12v12 and I've kept stats on how often those games appear with the setting on. 106 games since patch. 12 of those were 12v12.
@@j100j oh sorry, idk where I got 8v8
this video goes to all the f20 players🗣️🔥
Most people call it notching. Ive never heard it called 3/9 before WT official videos.
Well he seemed to speak of a more energy based approach to the dodge in that segment of the video, notching relies on exploiting old doppler radar single-axis velocity measurements, maintaining a constant radial distance from the radar emitter which can trick the radar into thinking you are at zero-velocity.
This tech works best against stationary SAM site radars, as it is easier to maintain a notch for a long period of time when orbiting a stationary ground radar.
This technique will not work well against pulsed doppler radar which can measure both distance and velocity at the same time.
And will work even less so against Air to Air FOX-3, especially if the missile radar returns are combined with the plane's radar for tracking.
That’s because that’s not notching, notching is flying at 90 deg to the direction the plane/missile is traveling in and it’s almost never the same as 3/9 which is putting the missile at 90 deg to the direction you’re traveling in. Extremely important distinction
Might be a script created according to a one in russian (not necessarily translated).
That info wasn't leaked on their forums, so they didn't know the proper terminology.
@@gregc9344 They're both literally the exact same thing bro.
"You don't. thanks for watching!"
(top tier went from horrible to unplayable with this update in my honest opinion, at this point I would REALLY like to see an IR-only gamemode. or at least make top tier matches 6v6 at most)
Can’t BVR, must use unflarable missile
Can do 10.0 br in sim or under or 11.3 and under either of those brackets under it will suit you
"just notch bro"
"just use chaff bro"
"just use ground clutter bro"
1:43 From a Falcon BMS player: This process is called 'Notching'. You put the missile on your 3/9 line because missiles always fly an intercept path towards you from the moment they are launched. Doing this forces the missile to expend extra energy trying to lead you thus giving it a harder time trying to hit you.
edit: 2:45 this is called dragging the missile and it only works if you have enough speed to even outrun the missile to begin with. There's a lot more to BVR (Beyond Visual Range) fights than what is explained here and it's a very interesting thing to learn about and I hope the more realistic tactics can be used
They usually always can in the game. Hope some people taake the time to learn more
At least you released a tutorial, slightly easing the pain many people have already experienced with this terrifying missile
Me: How to notch Fox3 missiles?
War Thunder: Yes
by Any Chance, an aircraft of a fighter jet choice, has a really good climb rate, you can use your climb in altitude as the missile gets pulled by Gravity (Which is down), Air Resistance (Which is against the missile's trajectory its facing) and Lack of fuel to continue its propel as the fighter jet has more fuel to climb, as the fuel burn on the motor of the missile dies it loses its climb gain eventually failing to pursue but thats just my experience on how I've dealt with missiles before.
True
Don’t fly behind mountains and think you’re safe, it’s not DCS, sometimes they can track you
Depends. If you fly behind a mountain and then radically change course, the missile will continue to try to intercept your last known trajectory, thus you'll evade it.
@@dreccasawa9975 but they wont do that, ever, if you were to test that with a friend and then watch the tacview thing you'll see the seeker still tracks the plane through the terrain
@@NGC2419- Is the plane radar also still tracking though?
@@jarfmusic no, but the missiles is and most of the time you go behind terrain to mask a pitbull missile, which means that that pitbull missile is still tracking you.
Are you sure it’s pitbull? I’ve avoided missiles that were using a mountain and the lock breaks.
There a chance the missile is still being guided by TWS track memory
we are getting basement guy and D point with this one!🗣🗣🔥🔥
War thunder is one of the games where everybody plays the game the way its meant to be played. Which is rare nowadays in the gaming industry.
Why tf aim-54 still hit me even after i deploy chaffs? Broken missile af
Meanwhile, you are still in a battle with more than 10 enemies, and rockets are flying towards you from everywhere
great advice for 1 vs 1 but this wont work for 16 vs 16 and the option for smaller rounds (6 vs 6) nearly never works.
Yes it does chaff so you don’t get locked fire two of your own missiles turn, fly away and repeat. Use your radar and don’t fly into groups of enemies pick one or two off and run away.
@@chipper9178 ...you do not have to repeat what they said in the vid, i got that, but this doesn't work if there are 16 enemys coming from different directions. Top Tier Realistic is like arcade.
If I pick one or two off the enemy, 4 people of the enemy team will pick off me. If I'm turning away to go cold i will get radar lock from the next 2 enemys flying towards me from the other direction.
This whole thing only works for the first encounter...and only if you're and the enemy are lonely
@@TheJackSilence obviously you still don’t understand… if you pick off the first two and run away their missiles will never catch you unless your waiting to fight people less than 10 miles away. Even up close you can win if you’re skilled I’ve dodge multiple enemy missiles and teammate missiles in a fur ball by notching/chaff the first one then multi path the next and repeat.
Also if you get locked before locking your targets you aren’t using chaff right. I have over a 2.0 kd in the f-15c
@@chipper9178 you forgot that all players are literally zombies, lurking and creeping even in chaos.
And what if I decide to utilize an aircraft with low stalling speed, high maneuvrability and an average speed of 250 km/h at ground level?
Asking for science
So useful. If only trees were as small as the War Thunder devs's brains, and not 85 meters tall
The problem is that, unless it's late game, you're pretty much never fighting just one missile, FOX 3 or not.
Missile so op that they had to make whole video about it. Jumbo
Please make all matches smaller at top tier; these may work if it’s only a few missiles but with teams of 12, each plane carrying about 2 missiles, that’s 24 missiles that are all flying towards you and your team.
Many planes carry more than 2 as well, that number was just to average out the poor stock players who need to survive up there with no chaff or fox 3 missiles of their own.
This Update is very fun for the most part, Except when 7 missile form 4 directions come at you at the same time making it near impossible to notch them all at once, this problem would be rather easily fixed by having less people in each match. What was that? There´s an option to get smaller lobbies?! Oh, what a shame it´s only one in very 20-30 rounds too bad.......
PLEASE making like 10v10 or 8v8 the DEFAULT and if someone should want 16v16 give them a switch to enable such matchmaking, but so far EVERYONE I´ve talked to hates 16v16s SPAMRAAM clusterfucks and would not mind waiting the extra 10 seconds in the "split"(large games and small ones) queue to get a fun experience.
Smaller games wouldn’t solve your problems, and keep in mind it’s the players that pushed for 16v16 games
I’m curious to know how you get in such a situation that missiles coming from all 4 directions is possible? 😳
All enemy missiles at the start are generally gonna come from the same direction i.e. in front of you so if you notch one (with minor adjustments for those you aren’t notching) you’ll eventually notch all incoming.
In such a scenario where you end up in a fox-3 furball as you say you can simply fly low (~60 metres/160ft and below; roughly tree top height) and pay attention to any Fox-2 (heat seeking) missiles that are headed in your general direction and flare accordingly
If you're close to the missile heading towards the enemy (since you probably are trying to guide your own missile), what I like to do anywhere from 15 to 25 mi. is to turn to the gimbal limits of the radar for a few seconds to save some time and bleed the missile, then turn upside down and start pulling towards the ground (losing altitude also helps bleed speed in thicker air, while your aircraft maintains its speed in a turn) until you reach the opposite gimbal limit (still in a dive), then break off and let your missile do its thing once it's gone pitbull, and turn away. Do a zigzag maneuver while flying away from the missile, and while gradually flying towards the ground. This almost always bleeds it completely. Then turn back in and gain speed and altitude.
If you successfully bleed the missile before turning cold, then don't go cold. Often, if the distance is greater, you can crank from one side to the other of the gimbal limit whole decreasing altitude and maintaining lock, and if the enemy doesn't do the same, you either gain the advantage as they go cold, or your missile hits them while they fly straight and theirs misses. If you are very close, turn away immediately and either go cold if you still have some distance, decrease altitude and maneuver, or fly low to the ground, or try to notch (although notching is very risky).
About time for this video. Next: how to use Fox3 missiles.
I knew about the three nine maneuver but I didn't know about the other three ones thank you for that that'll help me out a lot in game
"just notch bro"
Me with 18 Aim-120 chasing me: 💀
just notch, I've recently learned to do it, and got 15 games with 5+ kills in a day lmao
Well done
Tried using them against the new IRIAF F-14. NOTHING WORKS DUDE
maybe people will stop charging in and launching all missiles while flying straight into 3 ARH missiles, then joining a new battle to do it again and again and again.
3:15 actually learned a new maneuver, thx guygin
I know right, one would have never thought of that.
What if you are not alone in the game? What if there are 10 other players after you and all this maneuvering makes you lose speed or favorable position for you to shoot at them?
If thats the case you are too close to the enemy. You shouldn’t be within 15 miles of them. If you’re far enough away you can dodge 20 fox 3’s use your radar so you’re not flying into a blob of enemies. Use chaff long enough not to get locked launch two missile to pick a couple off turn, run, and repeat
It works great I have almost a 2.0 KD in the F15c
Note : those maneuvers are not for R-27ERs
they have 3 times stronger seekers lmao
But the plane has to keep a lock for it to hit so while it's guiding its 1 missile at a time, they're sitting ducks
I never Managed to notch r27er in my life. It's extremely OP
@@Alisevenn13 It's not that difficult when you get it down. I once notched 2 in a single game. Although I wouldn't recommend notching unless absolutely necessary. Multipathing is way more consistent and easy to pull off.
@@Alisevenn13 You're bad
Now it's easy to use planes, since gaijin removed the anti-aircraft sights, making the game even more unplayable than it was.
What I found helpful is never go directly 90 degrees, never notched the ARH or SARH missle, so always make sure you go past 90 degrees.
That last part only happens when you're at the deck already. Anytime I dive from high alt to the deck, the missile- before reaching the deck- will change it's course to avoid colliding with the ground.
They had to make this video because all the F-20 players were losing their mind cause they can't fathom turning 90 degrees
This game went from actual skill wins to random luck. Ah yes let me climb so that I can just get slapped by sparrow or r27er missile while the radar ones are flying at me
Yes, its random luck.
Lol
When I play on the highest tier, because of the limited capabilities the fox 3 has, I take my battles at up to 11,000m high. That way, everyone at a distance of 10kms below, they fire the missiles; but because I'm all the way high, I'm counting that the missile will loose it's momentum and fall. I'd say 4 out of 10, it works. By biggest disadvantage is that sometimes, the engines will stall at higher altitude.
Great advice! I'll try to dodge them!
20 minutes later.
I wonder when WT publish another advice video explaining how to dodge 64 missiles launched at the same time
I use every one of these methods. The zig zag is amazing
"This video is an actual representation on how to evade Fox-3 missiles"
Proceeds to show how to evade SINGLE missile. In the meantime, despite enabled option for reduced player amount in matches, you end up in 16 v 16 games 98% of times and enemy just slinged 6-7 missiles towards you while being on a shitty flat map with zero terrain cover whatsoever.
Yep, legit representation, we just don't know in which universe.
Ive been using the 9&3 maneuver since patch drop to great affect
Thank you for teaching the basics to amateurs, and there will still be people complaining because they want to play stupidly in High Tier by headon in a straight line without learning how to position themselves. In a Ground match, any MBT that enters the open field and accelerates will die to a well-positioned enemy. Now I see many players learning to adapt, using the terrain, the mountains, the scenery to camouflage themselves. I loved seeing some games like this, and I believe that over time, fewer noobs will be in this BR.
I would just like to see Air-Air matches like Groung-Air matches, where it doesn't show that the enemy has a red nickname. I understand this exists in WWII matches, but in next-gen fighter matches it's really annoying since Gaijin assumes all players are newbies. The game claims to be "Realistic" and in reality, there is no red marker enemy nickname. If the player wants to play with high BR, he needs to learn how to play. Use the radar, know how to position yourself, know how to maneuver.
Play sim then
@@quarreneverett4767 easy.
@@linleesin fancy
With more missiles flying your way the only viable option becomes turning 180 with shallow dive and deploying chaff, assuming that on one was launching missiles form your rear 180 you will survive, but then if the enemy is persistent you won't do anything in the match.
Hugging the ground with the altitude to ground setting is pretty good. As long as those numbers are it the red your pretty ok
Interesting, if only i wasn't stuck in tier 5
That's all cool basement guy, but what do I do when 10 are flying towards me from literally all direction?
I saw Fox-3 only from ground (not just there yet in jets), but isn't there also 16 targets for the enemy? So they should not all be running at you - or am I mistaken and three planes firing "dual tap" at same target, then multitrack to repeat this three times (6xFox-3), multiplied by whole
team doing the very same?
Hopefully people will take the time to watch this video instead of complaining and asking the game to be adjusted to cater their unwillingness to learn to play it properly.
Nice video!
me after dumping 60 large caliber chaff notching and flying 4 feet off the floor still being railed by a fox 3
@@t-rexcamp9090 you are replying to a gaijin bot.
Q: How do you dodge the Pantsir in top tier?
Don't get in cas in a ground rb and the pantsir can't hurt u that's how. If u want to fly, play air rb ab or sim
waste the energy of the missile, go right above the platform, dive down, notch
There 2 type of people playing RB, pleople that knows about BVR and loved the new update, and people that love furballs and multipath, Gaijin i'ts time to bring new Realistic game mode. I'm playing this game for 12 Years, and this game always forced you to learn about what are you doing. I'ts the realistic battles. But in the last years people that dont know and don't care about learn mechanics. What they do is complain about the game, making RB seems an better arcade mode. So it's time to give what they want. You can take the last update and make a game mode like that, and in the other hand give us more strategic and better objetives to play. I don't want to play simulator battles and buy joysticks for this. I believe in you Gaijin.
How tf did you play war thunder in 2010? It came out in 2012
@@זהסודי-ה7מ Started to play at 2014*****
@@זהסודי-ה7מ 2012 is 12 years ago buddy (yes technically WT has only been out for 11 years and a few months but you get the point).
You don't need a joystick... Especially in higher BR's. Just stick and cry about it
@@aerocraft3377 he originally said 14, but edited it
As a fairly new player, warthunder needs to listen to its community more. From the history of changes and stuff being added, it’s an unequal mess but still fun. I can see why most players prefer around mid tier combat. It’s a shame because the game could be amazing.
The game is amazing. I can help teach you and practice. Alot of skill issue and bandwagon on rumors and people wanting clout. You can even look through this comment section. Several people tried to clear up missinderstandings of people saying this and that telling the truth about giving tips on how to do things
The game is a sim you can read up and stufy and practice things and apply it
how play top tier, climb as fast as you can, who cares about speed, launch missiles at 9km up, wait for a few seconds while stalling your plane so you don't get far, get into that 20~km homing range, rtb, reload, and j- out and go to the next match
I love how they just ignored multipathing which is still consistent if you just fly low enough.
It is impossible to dodge 5 at the same time. REDUCE THE TEAM SIZE ON TOP TIER LOBBIES. PLEASE!
Maybe y’all should fix the whole “16v16 matchmaking” problem so we could use these strategies reliably
“The missile knows where it is at all times”
How do I stop the missile from tracking me through trees and mountains, Mr Snail? You know what I mean, eyberyone saw Defyn's video
❤I didnt see it because i dont watch those kind of guys that give mindless dribble for attention. Bad advice and bandwagons.
What you do is adjust your flight path. It projects where yiu will be in a memory mode, which is a feature irl.
Very useful for any Sim. TY
I usually use my jet as chaff very effectively, but that only works once.
this only really works in sim. when i have 4 fox3s coming at me from different angles, and a whole enemy team waiting for me to get higher up, thats pretty hard to do.
Yeah. Cool. Now make a video on how to dodge a back missile in a Sagittario, or in an Ariete
Move the F-4F ICE to 12.3 PLEASE.
Is it not 12.3?
@@j100j It's a phantom at 12.7
pfff , no. he got foxes also 😡😡
Air RB capped at 8v8 with fox-3s please
Thats cool but only works in a direct 1v1 situation. At the current state you dodge one missile BUT HEY there is another one from a completly different direction due to the 16v16 matchmaker.
Fox-3 games should be limited to 6v6 at max.
So it’s what I’ve already done that doesn’t work from experiencing the torture of top-tier ARB
love the update but none of these work when there is 5 F-15's on your ass all at once
okay but after doing defensive manuvers in the gripen you dont have the Thrust/weight ratio to continue on the aggressive after defending, bvr is quite a one trick pony for the gripen
Gaijin, i love you, but c'mon. Make 12 v 12 the default for upper tier Air RB and add back RB EC. The gameplay with these machines is soooo limited.
No, Default 8vs8. And 12vs12 when you activate IT!
@@Maxxx800ify sure but far less likely for gaijin to implement.
all fox 3 immune to chaff right now, they lock you up from behind and see you though chaff. You try to notch - missiles like fox 3 have memory and they will continued following your path and re-enable seeker again
I could be wrong, but i think some planes dont even have the radar to know if fox3s are comming their way until it's too late
Well made video, I hope the less knowledgeable in the community learn and get better.
I’ll refer to this in several months when I get to top tier
How you can dodge the new missle: You cant 😅
In top tier, Crank the entire time. Aka, fly like a 90 degree pancake. There is no luxury of just going cold all the time
this doesnt work there are 16 planes on the enemy team with at least four missiles each
So, the Fox-3 introduction became such an issue that even the official content WT channel had to provide basic content about dealing with this issue.
if this isn't some sort of admission that Fox-3s are somewhat of a "problem", I don't know what else is.
No
What do i do if my RWR is literally unreadable from the amount of radar pings and missile launches? Not to mention the clutter from me passing through the beam of a tracking radar/missile
Like you just cant make out anything
And positioning doesn't do much. You can go to either edge, up in orbit or scraping the trees, rush straight ahead or wait for your team to die. Your RWR will always be full of noise unless your team already wiped the enemies
Ratio and cope coldwat RWR copemaxxing
I can help practice
I've dodged quite a few missiles without knowing the names of the maneuvers. In Sim though, can't imagine playing the arcade modes, feels like a clusterf***. But the new 120 ones are a bit harder to dodge head on from like 3km.
Just fix trees and make lobbies 6-8 max, that will fix 70% of trouble at least