Hi everyone ! if you find "the way of tarot" of Jodorowsky interesting, or even "mindblowing", do you know the reading method by Philippe Camoin ? he "krack the code" of the TdM ! About "the low of the look" or the "low of the solution-card " ? It's a way of use the majors and the direction of the looks of the caracterd in specific majors card : If a caracter look to our right for example, the consultant must pick up one more card to put it precisely on the right of the first card. So the tarologue have a lots of precisions in the reading of a paire / couple of card ... 😃 The meaning of I Bateleur and III the impératrice is different than III -I ! There is a meaning in the way of reading ! The same for the solution-card : if the card is picked up side down, so it's represent a problem, a question, a advise... the "secret code" of the tarot is to put a new card just above this one... to find the exact solution ! It's magic ! 🌈✨ And another new experience : the style of using the " code of tarot" is in a strategie of an unknowed number of cards ! On The table, we can begin with the first 3 cards and stop here... or add a card every time the is a look in a way they need a new one, or add a card above if there is an upside down ! In this methode, One card is seen very rich. But the TdM can be read together with 1 card, and with 2cards and 3... like with alpabeth there is a reding of one letter, one word, one sentence... You'll never see the TdM as before ! 😉 You can visit the web site of Philippe Camoin. He has a big ego on his restore TdM, yes... 😅 But he gives for free this legendary basic method 😃🌈 In french : fr.camoin.com/tarot/-Methode-de-Lecture-du-Tarot-.html Or english version : 😉 en.camoin.com/tarot/-The-Camoin-Laws-of-Tarot-.html Enjoy ! Bisous from Paris 😘
I always wonder if we should take Jodorowsky literally. He seems like a smart complex man, surely, he understands the idea of purity, what it is and what it is not. Or, whether we should take him like we take the Cohen Brothers, when they preface their "Fargo" with "This is a true story" when, you know, it was not..... I always wonder, if he is creating a story within a story, and layering his own fable onto the deck, by saying those things.....
Agree with you here, I have the deck and book, I find Jodorowsky has a unique approach and also wants to challenge the system of Marseille. I find his style of interpretation creative and unconventional.
Yeah, Nobody Here. Perhaps it's just something that the publisher thought would look good for marketing purposes. In his book, Jodorowsky is a strange mix. On the one hand he recognises the malleability of interpretation of almost everything. On the other hand, he's come to a very clear and defined understanding of the tarot, based on interpreting even the tiniest detail of this particular re-imagining of the TdM... It's fascinating, I must say :)
Great comment! And obviously your answer is in your question. His approach is very much a layering of story within story (I'm a fan of the Coens also). Literality belongs to science and history (and with history 'what was and is' is deeply subjective and political). Beliefs and meaning are a different paradigm altogether. Enter: the Tarot.
Hi I have the book and the cards and the fact is: the more i read this book the more i begin to love it! I also don't believe everything he says/writes but somehow you 'want' to believe him because his approach is so fascinating!
I totally agree, Danny! For one thing, in the book he's a lot more open and fluid. With some things he's kind of dogmatic, in the line of 'this is what the tarot told me'. And I don't agree with it all - like his order of the suits based on what the Ten or sometimes the Knight looks like compared to the Aces. Sometimes, it seems like he's reaching too much. Still, it is totally fascinating :D
I agree, its a great set of cards. Jodorowsky is a great artist who wants to use art and tarot to heal. He knows a lot about creating an image that is open enough for the reader to acquire wisdom about their circumstances. I think he has put a lot of his artistic, spiritual wisdom and heart into creating an authentic deck but also adding his own knowledge!
Interesting to note too that Jodorowsky & Camion's Magician card has three dice adding up to that all encompassing number 21, a field day for numerologists. With numbers 1, 2 & 4, on show for each dice , it's the details like this that make the deck so fascinating, not sure if another Tarot de Marseille has dice adding up to 21 or not. Only just acquired the deck a few days ago along with the book co-written by Costa, it's my first ever tarot & even with my limited knowledge, I'm completely hooked, what the master of metaphor calls so beautifully the 'Nomadic Cathedral', I've done little else other than shuffle, gaze and arrange and meditate on the wonder and wisdom contained within, the symbolism and psychology alone is just mind blowing. I keep finding so much food for thought. Right now I feel a lot like 'El Loco' starting on his journey, full of beans with his lust for enlightenment tied up in his blanket stick, I fear there's no turning back!
@Kris Fotheringham Hi, if you find "the way of tarotx of Jodorowsky "mindblowing" perhaps you will be fascinated by the way of reading the tarot by Philippe Camoin. Do you know that he "krack the code"? About "the low of the look" or the "low of the solution-card " ? It's a way of use the majors and the direction of the look of some majors card : If a caracter look to your right for ex, the consultant must pick up one more card to put it precosely on the right of the first card . So the tarologue have a lots of precisions in the reading of a paire / couple of card ... 😃 The meaning of I Bateleur and III the impératrice is different than III -I ! There is a meaning in the way of reading ! The same for the solution-card : if the card is picked up side down, so it's represent a problemb a question... the "secret code" of the tarot is to put a new card just above this one... to find the exact solution ! It's magic ! 🌈✨ And another new experience : the style of using the " code of tarot" is in a strategie of and unknowed number of cards ! The table car present the first 3 cards and stop here... or add a card every time the is a look in a way they need a new one, or add a card if there is an upside down ! In this methode, One card is seen very rich. But the TdM can be read together with 1 card, and with 2cards and 3... like one letter, one word, one sentence... You'll never see the TdM as before ! 😉 You can visit the web site of Philippe Camoin. He has a big ego on his restore TdM, yes. But he gives for free this basic method 😃🌈 fr.camoin.com/tarot/-Methode-de-Lecture-du-Tarot-.html Enjoy ! (And thank you for the automatic tool of traduction page by the browser Chrome from french to english 😉) Bisous from Paris 😘
Obviously the ISIS coloring schemes are heavily influenced by the Jodorowsky-Camoin deck. The Jodorowsky-Camoin Tarot was copyrighted 1997-1998, the ISIS Tarot deck was produced in 2010.
When something has a historical origin, and if one wants to understand the intended meaning of the thing, then one is going to want to try to recover its original form. You can only do your best, and your best isn't going to be perfect, but it can certainly be an improvement on what you start off with if your research is on the mark. It's not a wasted exercise just because it's not absolutely perfect. Nor is it necessarily egoistic.
Just started listening. At about 1:27 you state absolute sense about Jodorowsky's claim that his deck somehow sits outside history and is the 'true deck'. And the fantasy of perfection. And a nod to the sensibility of a hermeneutic understanding of ideas/beliefs through history. Spot on :) I have just started reading his book, The Way of Tarot, and will be purchasing his deck for the same reasons you mention. Thanks for the review!
I have and love his deck, so much so that I bought the mini so I could have a travel version. And even among all my TdM decks this one still remains a deck I love to use. Aside from the bad cardstock lol. Did you notice the egg in the corner of the HP's card, one of those 'iconoclastic' additions. Thanks for a great video, Chloe.
Hiya Rose, I didn't notice the egg in the flick through, though when I was editing the video it was obvious to me. He says it's a detail in the 'original'. Either way, I love it :D
thank you for this wonderful and illuminating video. As a note about purity, many readers use imperfections in various historical tarot decks as further tools for interpretation, and with much success. I certainly don’t believe in any pure or perfect Marseille tarot because, for one, history just demonstrates that idea to be hilariously wrong, and two, the imperfections and variations both within single decks and among different decks is a unique and useful way to read tarot, as well as adding to their charm.
Well, insisting something is pure is highly egoic. I love Jodorowsky as an artist, but he does seem, imo, supremely egoic lol. So, I take all that purity talk with a grain of salt. I am interested in this deck & his book because I think they have value from his viewpoint & I do enjoy a Marseille deck :) Purity is so subjective, as you mentioned & I couldn't agree more. Also, to me, there's something awesome in the lineage & evolution of Tarot that can really add to its collective meaning.
Yes, Rachael, I love what you say about the lineage and evolution of Tarot adding to its collective meaning! As for Jodorowsky, it's funny. In the book, he is partly dogmatic - look at this detail or that detail, this all has meaning and shows us how the Tarot 'ought to be' read. On the other hand, he often says, this is only a set of possibilities, no archetype can be pinned down and limited. Overall, I'd highly recommend both book and deck, which I've been reading and working with for about a month, now :)
Is anyone else aware that tdm is just a deck of playing cards with no underlying meaning? The meaning is created by the manipulation and power of the reader. So literally any deck is perfect if the reader see's enough when using it
I agree that humans are meaning making beings, so the cards never really mean anything, or always potentially mean everything. And yes, that means any deck can be perfect for that reader :D Still, structure and history can be useful to create a scafold on which to build a reading. Whatever works for you ;)
All three decks are beautiful. I prefer the colouring on the Jodorowsky, but obviously that is very subjective. In terms of "true tarot imagery", pretty much any TdM deck will do. You only go wrong if you use RWS, Thoth, or some other new design that has been corrupted by false teachings. I love all 3 of these TdM and we are very blessed their creators made them. It's fantastic that 400-500 years later, people are still making and restoring TdM decks.
Thanks for the review, they have just republished this deck so I think I will pick it up. It's somewhere between the Grimaud (which has quite a dark palette) and the CBD which I like a lot.. May I ask if you are still reading? And if so where I might book a reading? Cheers.
I do like the Jodorowsky deck better than the Grimaud deck. There are some cards I prefer in the ISIS deck over the Jodorowsky deck because they look cleaner to my eye, maybe it's the resolution or something. However, there is a lot of pink and pale blue in the ISIS deck, which I don't care for. Thank you, for a thorough review and comparison :)
I know what you mean about the pink in the ISIS, Lisa! Though I think you're also right about the clean lines and perspectives of it. Overall, I'm really loving the Jodorowsky, in large part because his book really is excellent. For me, he's the Rachel Pollack of TdM :D
I read Jodorowsky's book up to a point and put it down as my feelings turned against his dogmatism. There are people who now believe that any Tarot is incomplete without what he has added, based on a few reviews I've seen of Conver-style decks on Amazon. Now, I have no doubt that his added details may indeed speak to some readers, but the attitude which he foments does not sow acceptance of the diversity of Tarot among his followers. I should add that my first TdM was Conver Ben-Dov, and I'm awaiting the arrival of Tarot The Open Reading by the late Dr Ben-Dov. I know that Dr Ben-Dov was associated with Jodorowsky, and the CBD is yet another interpretation of the TdM. I don't subscribe to Purity and Perfection of interpretation when it comes to tarot decks, but at least the CBD resonates with me personally. I'm also awaiting the arrival of Lo Scarabeo's Symbolic Tarot of Wirth. It seems like it should be fun to work with.
Hello! Where did you buy the Jodorowsky tarot deck? Is the quality of the cards good? I mean, have you used them enough, have they held up to long-term use? Thank you so much
I liked your presentation and found it really helpful, although you were right about misspelling Jodorowsky’s name. The main problem is that you inversed the R with the letter D the whole time, practically misplacing a couple of syllables, which was a little annoying, to be honest. But aside from that, the infos were spot on.
I've watched the whole video and my favourite of the three you've shown is the Jodorowsky. Maybe I need to buy one. I do love my two Flornoys (Noblet and Dodal).
The Jodorowsky has a more pleasing colour palette, and I like the extra objects and insights the cards offer. Still, the Flornoys are definitely strong standards :)
I have read the book of Jodorowsky. Good book, but not my favorite, I don't agree with some of his interpretations. And I had gone on the web site of Philippe Camoin. I have to say that Camoin is a pretty weird guy. He has a lot of crazy theories on Tarot history or "secrets". The tarot Camoin-Jodorwsky is a Conver based Tarot, it looks good, but pretend to be the "ultimate" and "original" tarot of Marseille is a marketing thing. It is redrawn and recolorized. I have the "Véritable Tarot de Marseille" by Kris Hadar. He looks a bit like the Grimaud, but prettier colors in general (but a lot of blue beards and hair) There is no such a thing as a "véritable" Tarot de Marseille. Tarots de Marseille are so numerous et diverse. P.S. Always wonder where he found the egg he put with the Papesse. 12:04. It is the only Papesse card where I saw an egg.
Salut à vous ! Depuis quelques jours je m’intéresse au tarot sur le plan iconographique et historique, suite à la découverte de la proposition de restitution par Jodorowsky. J’ai donc remonté (Marteau, Conver, Chosson, Madenié, Dodal, Rolichon, Noblet, Viéville...) jusqu’à retrouver l’origine de détails qui m’intriguaient. Cependant, il y en a toujours quelques uns qui me laissent perplexe : -La boule blanche et bleue sur la robe du pape, entre les disciples. -Le motif au cou de la tempérence. -La couleur jaune d’un des deux liquides versés par l’étoile semble provenir de Rolichon, or l’original était en noir et blanc, et a été colorisé dans les années 90! -Et enfin, l’escalier et la porte sur la maison dieu??? Que dit Jodorowsky dans son livre à propos de ces « détails »? Cite-t-il d’autres tarots, ou anciens moules de cartiers...? Je ne sais pas trop à qui m’adresser, mes recherches sur le net sont toujours infructueuses. Je rappelle que je m’intéresse à l’histoire de l’iconographie, pas aux interprétations psycho-spirituelles. Si vous pouvez me mettre sur la piste, je vous en serais bien reconnaissant ! Bravo et Merci pour votre travail.
I think the devil may hold a kind of whip or stick to hit or beat. In some old tarots it is more clearly a torch. In Jean Noblet tarot and a few others, it is a pitchfork. 18:16 All of these are used to inflict pain... Hell is not a good place...
there's the eagle's egg that disappears on the emperor's card for the first deck. it's always a meaningful element in Jodorowsky's explanations (that it's a female eagle while the Imperatrice's eagle is male). The egg is also present on the Popess, ONLY on Jodo's deck, and is a very important gestative aspect. I agree with you and would say it's even a bit too commercial, that claim to restaure an original purity, but was there an other way to say how much they tried to get back at its roots, I think it's elements like that that prove there's a tremendous work and they gotta say it one way, to explain the point of this particular product
I can see what you mean. And I definitely don't doubt Jodorowsky's commitment to the process and to seeking deep truths! It has become one of my favourite Marseille decks :)
So does the Isis, but more noticeably because it's horizontal whereas in the Jodo/Camoin it runs vertically and close to the border so it seems slightly less obtrusive, to my eye at least.
Jodorowsky is a bright individual with strong views. Whether he is right or not, his idea of "original purity" in the end is HIS idea of it and ultimately, JUST AN IDEA; however, it seemed to have triggered anger and defensiveness, which could be something interesting to observe, reflect on and learn from. Watching and listening to it definitely triggered an unpleasant sensation in my stomach, a kind of discomfort and a knott, which definitely made me think and learn something.
I agree that it triggered something in me. People who believe they have the ultimate truth, and that everyone else is wrong, scare me a little. It's an attitude which, taken to the extreme, leads to violence and hatred. Of course, that isn't Jodorowksy's case, but it is a step on that path. I like his intellectual curiosity and openness to seeing something different - his new deck was a new learning experience for himself, too. That is the part that I love, and that excites me. The idea that this is the only 'true' deck is the part that bothers me - I get fascinating, helpful readings from a lot of decks, and they all allow me to commune with spirit, if that is what I am looking for in a reading.
At 3:21 " you can only actually see things if you have words for them........." Well,babies do not yet have words for things. So,are they blind? Obviously babies are not blind. A scientist discovers a new species....how is that possible,after all ,when the scientist perceived it it does not yet have a name. Pretty ridiculous l.
Thank you for this. It's very helpful, since I was debating whether or not to purchase it (especially given the higher price tag). I does seem worth it. I particularly appreciate that you compared it live to the other two decks. I'm also wondering about his book and the value it has in relation to the deck. I love the works (particularly his films and bandes dessinées) and writings of Jodorowsky, and wondering whether the book would suffice, or if the book really depends on having the book as well. I do have a note for you, with respect to your presentation. You use the term "flesh coloured" to describe differences between two of the decks. I would just point out to you that, although your flesh may be closer to the whitish pink chosen by the ISSIS deck, most people in the world have flesh of a different colour. It's one of those things built into language usage that one should be mindful of, I think - if one cares to be more inclusive.
Hi Michael, if you like Jodorowsky's work, I would definitely get both book and cards! As for the term flesh-coloured, that is actually the terminology Jodorowsky uses. And seeing as he is talking quite specifically about a deck created in a caucasian, christian country, and with a limited colour palette, he gives this particular meaning. So, if something non-human is 'flesh-coloured', that affects how he interprets it symbolically. That's why I used the term. I agree with you, though, that I personally like a lot of decks that are more inclusive in their palette - such as the Gaian and the Waking the Wild Spirit. I live in London, which is a wonderful, multicoloured, culturally varied city :D
Hi everyone ! if you find "the way of tarot" of Jodorowsky interesting, or even "mindblowing", do you know the reading method by Philippe Camoin ? he "krack the code" of the TdM !
About "the low of the look" or the "low of the solution-card " ?
It's a way of use the majors and the direction of the looks of the caracterd in specific majors card :
If a caracter look to our right for example, the consultant must pick up one more card to put it precisely on the right of the first card. So the tarologue have a lots of precisions in the reading of a paire / couple of card ... 😃
The meaning of I Bateleur and III the impératrice is different than III -I ! There is a meaning in the way of reading !
The same for the solution-card : if the card is picked up side down, so it's represent a problem, a question, a advise... the "secret code" of the tarot is to put a new card just above this one... to find the exact solution ! It's magic ! 🌈✨
And another new experience : the style of using the " code of tarot" is in a strategie of an unknowed number of cards !
On The table, we can begin with the first 3 cards and stop here... or add a card every time the is a look in a way they need a new one, or add a card above if there is an upside down !
In this methode, One card is seen very rich. But the TdM can be read together with 1 card, and with 2cards and 3... like with alpabeth there is a reding of one letter, one word, one sentence...
You'll never see the TdM as before ! 😉
You can visit the web site of Philippe Camoin. He has a big ego on his restore TdM, yes... 😅
But he gives for free this legendary basic method 😃🌈
In french :
fr.camoin.com/tarot/-Methode-de-Lecture-du-Tarot-.html
Or english version : 😉
en.camoin.com/tarot/-The-Camoin-Laws-of-Tarot-.html
Enjoy !
Bisous from Paris 😘
I always wonder if we should take Jodorowsky literally. He seems like a smart complex man, surely, he understands the idea of purity, what it is and what it is not. Or, whether we should take him like we take the Cohen Brothers, when they preface their "Fargo" with "This is a true story" when, you know, it was not..... I always wonder, if he is creating a story within a story, and layering his own fable onto the deck, by saying those things.....
Agree with you here, I have the deck and book, I find Jodorowsky has a unique approach and also wants to challenge the system of Marseille. I find his style of interpretation creative and unconventional.
Yeah, Nobody Here. Perhaps it's just something that the publisher thought would look good for marketing purposes. In his book, Jodorowsky is a strange mix. On the one hand he recognises the malleability of interpretation of almost everything. On the other hand, he's come to a very clear and defined understanding of the tarot, based on interpreting even the tiniest detail of this particular re-imagining of the TdM... It's fascinating, I must say :)
Yes, that's a good way of describing it, Cosmic Arcana :) I do find his approach extremely fascinating and stimulating.
I can't wait to read a bit more of or on him! I feel like with Crowley (I think), the key seem to be to understand (or attempt to) the man himself :D
Great comment! And obviously your answer is in your question. His approach is very much a layering of story within story (I'm a fan of the Coens also). Literality belongs to science and history (and with history 'what was and is' is deeply subjective and political).
Beliefs and meaning are a different paradigm altogether. Enter: the Tarot.
Hi I have the book and the cards and the fact is: the more i read this book the more i begin to love it! I also don't believe everything he says/writes but somehow you 'want' to believe him because his approach is so fascinating!
I totally agree, Danny! For one thing, in the book he's a lot more open and fluid. With some things he's kind of dogmatic, in the line of 'this is what the tarot told me'. And I don't agree with it all - like his order of the suits based on what the Ten or sometimes the Knight looks like compared to the Aces. Sometimes, it seems like he's reaching too much. Still, it is totally fascinating :D
I agree, its a great set of cards. Jodorowsky is a great artist who wants to use art and tarot to heal. He knows a lot about creating an image that is open enough for the reader to acquire wisdom about their circumstances. I think he has put a lot of his artistic, spiritual wisdom and heart into creating an authentic deck but also adding his own knowledge!
Interesting to note too that Jodorowsky & Camion's Magician card has three dice adding up to that all encompassing number 21, a field day for numerologists. With numbers 1, 2 & 4, on show for each dice , it's the details like this that make the deck so fascinating, not sure if another Tarot de Marseille has dice adding up to 21 or not. Only just acquired the deck a few days ago along with the book co-written by Costa, it's my first ever tarot & even with my limited knowledge, I'm completely hooked, what the master of metaphor calls so beautifully the 'Nomadic Cathedral', I've done little else other than shuffle, gaze and arrange and meditate on the wonder and wisdom contained within, the symbolism and psychology alone is just mind blowing. I keep finding so much food for thought. Right now I feel a lot like 'El Loco' starting on his journey, full of beans with his lust for enlightenment tied up in his blanket stick, I fear there's no turning back!
I can really understand that feeling, Kris, and they definitely put many fabulous details and food for thought into the images!
@Kris Fotheringham
Hi, if you find "the way of tarotx of Jodorowsky "mindblowing" perhaps you will be fascinated by the way of reading the tarot by Philippe Camoin. Do you know that he "krack the code"?
About "the low of the look" or the "low of the solution-card " ?
It's a way of use the majors and the direction of the look of some majors card :
If a caracter look to your right for ex, the consultant must pick up one more card to put it precosely on the right of the first card . So the tarologue have a lots of precisions in the reading of a paire / couple of card ... 😃
The meaning of I Bateleur and III the impératrice is different than III -I ! There is a meaning in the way of reading !
The same for the solution-card : if the card is picked up side down, so it's represent a problemb a question... the "secret code" of the tarot is to put a new card just above this one... to find the exact solution ! It's magic ! 🌈✨
And another new experience : the style of using the " code of tarot" is in a strategie of and unknowed number of cards !
The table car present the first 3 cards and stop here... or add a card every time the is a look in a way they need a new one, or add a card if there is an upside down !
In this methode, One card is seen very rich. But the TdM can be read together with 1 card, and with 2cards and 3... like one letter, one word, one sentence...
You'll never see the TdM as before ! 😉
You can visit the web site of Philippe Camoin. He has a big ego on his restore TdM, yes.
But he gives for free this basic method 😃🌈
fr.camoin.com/tarot/-Methode-de-Lecture-du-Tarot-.html
Enjoy ! (And thank you for the automatic tool of traduction page by the browser Chrome from french to english 😉)
Bisous from Paris 😘
Obviously the ISIS coloring schemes are heavily influenced by the Jodorowsky-Camoin deck. The Jodorowsky-Camoin Tarot was copyrighted 1997-1998, the ISIS Tarot deck was produced in 2010.
When something has a historical origin, and if one wants to understand the intended meaning of the thing, then one is going to want to try to recover its original form. You can only do your best, and your best isn't going to be perfect, but it can certainly be an improvement on what you start off with if your research is on the mark. It's not a wasted exercise just because it's not absolutely perfect. Nor is it necessarily egoistic.
Just started listening. At about 1:27 you state absolute sense about Jodorowsky's claim that his deck somehow sits outside history and is the 'true deck'. And the fantasy of perfection. And a nod to the sensibility of a hermeneutic understanding of ideas/beliefs through history. Spot on :) I have just started reading his book, The Way of Tarot, and will be purchasing his deck for the same reasons you mention. Thanks for the review!
I have and love his deck, so much so that I bought the mini so I could have a travel version. And even among all my TdM decks this one still remains a deck I love to use. Aside from the bad cardstock lol. Did you notice the egg in the corner of the HP's card, one of those 'iconoclastic' additions. Thanks for a great video, Chloe.
Hiya Rose, I didn't notice the egg in the flick through, though when I was editing the video it was obvious to me. He says it's a detail in the 'original'. Either way, I love it :D
thank you for this wonderful and illuminating video.
As a note about purity, many readers use imperfections in various historical tarot decks as further tools for interpretation, and with much success.
I certainly don’t believe in any pure or perfect Marseille tarot because, for one, history just demonstrates that idea to be hilariously wrong, and two, the imperfections and variations both within single decks and among different decks is a unique and useful way to read tarot, as well as adding to their charm.
I think you're so right about that. The imperfections open up interpretative possibilities!
Well, insisting something is pure is highly egoic. I love Jodorowsky as an artist, but he does seem, imo, supremely egoic lol. So, I take all that purity talk with a grain of salt. I am interested in this deck & his book because I think they have value from his viewpoint & I do enjoy a Marseille deck :) Purity is so subjective, as you mentioned & I couldn't agree more. Also, to me, there's something awesome in the lineage & evolution of Tarot that can really add to its collective meaning.
Yes, Rachael, I love what you say about the lineage and evolution of Tarot adding to its collective meaning!
As for Jodorowsky, it's funny. In the book, he is partly dogmatic - look at this detail or that detail, this all has meaning and shows us how the Tarot 'ought to be' read. On the other hand, he often says, this is only a set of possibilities, no archetype can be pinned down and limited. Overall, I'd highly recommend both book and deck, which I've been reading and working with for about a month, now :)
Is anyone else aware that tdm is just a deck of playing cards with no underlying meaning? The meaning is created by the manipulation and power of the reader. So literally any deck is perfect if the reader see's enough when using it
I agree that humans are meaning making beings, so the cards never really mean anything, or always potentially mean everything. And yes, that means any deck can be perfect for that reader :D Still, structure and history can be useful to create a scafold on which to build a reading. Whatever works for you ;)
All three decks are beautiful. I prefer the colouring on the Jodorowsky, but obviously that is very subjective. In terms of "true tarot imagery", pretty much any TdM deck will do. You only go wrong if you use RWS, Thoth, or some other new design that has been corrupted by false teachings. I love all 3 of these TdM and we are very blessed their creators made them. It's fantastic that 400-500 years later, people are still making and restoring TdM decks.
Thanks for the review, they have just republished this deck so I think I will pick it up. It's somewhere between the Grimaud (which has quite a dark palette) and the CBD which I like a lot.. May I ask if you are still reading? And if so where I might book a reading? Cheers.
I do like the Jodorowsky deck better than the Grimaud deck. There are some cards I prefer in the ISIS deck over the Jodorowsky deck because they look cleaner to my eye, maybe it's the resolution or something. However, there is a lot of pink and pale blue in the ISIS deck, which I don't care for. Thank you, for a thorough review and comparison :)
I know what you mean about the pink in the ISIS, Lisa! Though I think you're also right about the clean lines and perspectives of it. Overall, I'm really loving the Jodorowsky, in large part because his book really is excellent. For me, he's the Rachel Pollack of TdM :D
I read Jodorowsky's book up to a point and put it down as my feelings turned against his dogmatism. There are people who now believe that any Tarot is incomplete without what he has added, based on a few reviews I've seen of Conver-style decks on Amazon. Now, I have no doubt that his added details may indeed speak to some readers, but the attitude which he foments does not sow acceptance of the diversity of Tarot among his followers.
I should add that my first TdM was Conver Ben-Dov, and I'm awaiting the arrival of Tarot The Open Reading by the late Dr Ben-Dov. I know that Dr Ben-Dov was associated with Jodorowsky, and the CBD is yet another interpretation of the TdM. I don't subscribe to Purity and Perfection of interpretation when it comes to tarot decks, but at least the CBD resonates with me personally.
I'm also awaiting the arrival of Lo Scarabeo's Symbolic Tarot of Wirth. It seems like it should be fun to work with.
Hello! Where did you buy the Jodorowsky tarot deck? Is the quality of the cards good? I mean, have you used them enough, have they held up to long-term use? Thank you so much
I liked your presentation and found it really helpful, although you were right about misspelling Jodorowsky’s name. The main problem is that you inversed the R with the letter D the whole time, practically misplacing a couple of syllables, which was a little annoying, to be honest. But aside from that, the infos were spot on.
Yeah, it's tricky when you get a misspelling in your head and can't chase it out. I think now I couldn't mis-say it, but that day... *rolls eyes*
Of course, the term "original purity" sounds a bit arrogant, but how many times do we read catchy lines on the cover of otherwise good books?
I've watched the whole video and my favourite of the three you've shown is the Jodorowsky. Maybe I need to buy one. I do love my two Flornoys (Noblet and Dodal).
The Jodorowsky has a more pleasing colour palette, and I like the extra objects and insights the cards offer. Still, the Flornoys are definitely strong standards :)
I really like him, but she made a great point! And that's fine... he is not perfect as nobody is! Thanks for this. Good one!! :)
I perfer the Grimaud and I have all three as well. Good presentation here, well done.
I have read the book of Jodorowsky. Good book, but not my favorite, I don't agree with some of his interpretations. And I had gone on the web site of Philippe Camoin. I have to say that Camoin is a pretty weird guy. He has a lot of crazy theories on Tarot history or "secrets". The tarot Camoin-Jodorwsky is a Conver based Tarot, it looks good, but pretend to be the "ultimate" and "original" tarot of Marseille is a marketing thing. It is redrawn and recolorized. I have the "Véritable Tarot de Marseille" by Kris Hadar. He looks a bit like the Grimaud, but prettier colors in general (but a lot of blue beards and hair) There is no such a thing as a "véritable" Tarot de Marseille. Tarots de Marseille are so numerous et diverse.
P.S. Always wonder where he found the egg he put with the Papesse. 12:04. It is the only Papesse card where I saw an egg.
15:58 - "birds claws" is ermine, the "royal fur".
Ah, that makes a lot more sense :D Thanks Ketutar!
Salut à vous !
Depuis quelques jours je m’intéresse au tarot sur le plan iconographique et historique, suite à la découverte de la proposition de restitution par Jodorowsky. J’ai donc remonté (Marteau, Conver, Chosson, Madenié, Dodal, Rolichon, Noblet, Viéville...) jusqu’à retrouver l’origine de détails qui m’intriguaient. Cependant, il y en a toujours quelques uns qui me laissent perplexe :
-La boule blanche et bleue sur la robe du pape, entre les disciples.
-Le motif au cou de la tempérence.
-La couleur jaune d’un des deux liquides versés par l’étoile semble provenir de Rolichon, or l’original était en noir et blanc, et a été colorisé dans les années 90!
-Et enfin, l’escalier et la porte sur la maison dieu???
Que dit Jodorowsky dans son livre à propos de ces « détails »? Cite-t-il d’autres tarots, ou anciens moules de cartiers...? Je ne sais pas trop à qui m’adresser, mes recherches sur le net sont toujours infructueuses. Je rappelle que je m’intéresse à l’histoire de l’iconographie, pas aux interprétations psycho-spirituelles. Si vous pouvez me mettre sur la piste, je vous en serais bien reconnaissant !
Bravo et Merci pour votre travail.
I resonate with you! I loved when you start reading in French!
I think the devil may hold a kind of whip or stick to hit or beat. In some old tarots it is more clearly a torch. In Jean Noblet tarot and a few others, it is a pitchfork. 18:16 All of these are used to inflict pain... Hell is not a good place...
Would you prefer the restored J&C or Cbd TdM?
Oh my! now I love the Isis,looks cleaner and not so busy on the eye
What is the name of the middle tarot?
Isis Marseille tarot
22:47 and 24:55 this bird is a phoenix 🔥✨
there's the eagle's egg that disappears on the emperor's card for the first deck. it's always a meaningful element in Jodorowsky's explanations (that it's a female eagle while the Imperatrice's eagle is male). The egg is also present on the Popess, ONLY on Jodo's deck, and is a very important gestative aspect. I agree with you and would say it's even a bit too commercial, that claim to restaure an original purity, but was there an other way to say how much they tried to get back at its roots, I think it's elements like that that prove there's a tremendous work and they gotta say it one way, to explain the point of this particular product
I can see what you mean. And I definitely don't doubt Jodorowsky's commitment to the process and to seeking deep truths! It has become one of my favourite Marseille decks :)
The Jodo Camoin deck has a copyright mark in every single card 😒
I know it's not to everyone's taste, but I quite appreciate it. Helps me know at a glance which deck I have in my hands :D
So does the Isis, but more noticeably because it's horizontal whereas in the Jodo/Camoin it runs vertically and close to the border so it seems slightly less obtrusive, to my eye at least.
Jodorowsky is a bright individual with strong views. Whether he is right or not, his idea of "original purity" in the end is HIS idea of it and ultimately, JUST AN IDEA; however, it seemed to have triggered anger and defensiveness, which could be something interesting to observe, reflect on and learn from. Watching and listening to it definitely triggered an unpleasant sensation in my stomach, a kind of discomfort and a knott, which definitely made me think and learn something.
I agree that it triggered something in me. People who believe they have the ultimate truth, and that everyone else is wrong, scare me a little. It's an attitude which, taken to the extreme, leads to violence and hatred. Of course, that isn't Jodorowksy's case, but it is a step on that path.
I like his intellectual curiosity and openness to seeing something different - his new deck was a new learning experience for himself, too. That is the part that I love, and that excites me. The idea that this is the only 'true' deck is the part that bothers me - I get fascinating, helpful readings from a lot of decks, and they all allow me to commune with spirit, if that is what I am looking for in a reading.
Grimaud all day.
Yes, me too..
Called him Jorodowsky the whole time .. did no one hear this ?
At 3:21 " you can only actually see things if you have words for them........."
Well,babies do not yet have words for things. So,are they blind? Obviously babies are not blind.
A scientist discovers a new species....how is that possible,after all ,when the scientist perceived it it does not yet have a name.
Pretty ridiculous l.
Thank you for this. It's very helpful, since I was debating whether or not to purchase it (especially given the higher price tag). I does seem worth it. I particularly appreciate that you compared it live to the other two decks.
I'm also wondering about his book and the value it has in relation to the deck. I love the works (particularly his films and bandes dessinées) and writings of Jodorowsky, and wondering whether the book would suffice, or if the book really depends on having the book as well.
I do have a note for you, with respect to your presentation. You use the term "flesh coloured" to describe differences between two of the decks. I would just point out to you that, although your flesh may be closer to the whitish pink chosen by the ISSIS deck, most people in the world have flesh of a different colour. It's one of those things built into language usage that one should be mindful of, I think - if one cares to be more inclusive.
Hi Michael, if you like Jodorowsky's work, I would definitely get both book and cards! As for the term flesh-coloured, that is actually the terminology Jodorowsky uses. And seeing as he is talking quite specifically about a deck created in a caucasian, christian country, and with a limited colour palette, he gives this particular meaning. So, if something non-human is 'flesh-coloured', that affects how he interprets it symbolically. That's why I used the term. I agree with you, though, that I personally like a lot of decks that are more inclusive in their palette - such as the Gaian and the Waking the Wild Spirit. I live in London, which is a wonderful, multicoloured, culturally varied city :D