This is the first episode of DS9 I ever saw, and it captured me instantly. It had such a different vibe to all the other Trek I'd seen, and as for seeing a black single father with a fantastic relationship with his son? UNHEARD OF. It will always hold a special place in my heart.
So did the ancient Bajorans have inertial dampener tech too? Or did the crashed ships on Cardassia have a lovely red mosiac decor on the aft bulkheads?
You only need inertial dampeners if you're doing hard acceleration. In normal space, solar sails would give you a continuous, gentle push. The only time it would be relevant is when that science wibbly somehow pushed them into warp. But the nature of warp drive is that the ship isn't really moving at all, it's the space around the ship that's being deformed. So maybe it was something similar for the sail ship?
@@John73JohnI’m more curious how the Bajorans got up and down from space to begin with. The space part is relatively easier compared to getting up there from the planet surface and back down.
Your comment on criticisms and how even good-intending ones can be destructive is so fucking on-point that it kinda breaks my heart because you're clearly drawing on some personal experience. Thank you for being a stable source of insightful and enjoyable videos in my feed this year. We don't know each other, but you and I share several common interests and worldviews and in 2025 I want you to know that, NO MATTER WHAT, you are not alone. May the Prophets bless you in the coming year.
It's good to be wanted Space Dog! I met Chase Masterson (who plays Lyta) many years ago at a small event in Glasgow. A long story short, she had come to help a local fan group raise money for charity. She even auctioned off the bra she was wearing and (as far as I recall) donated the fee she should have been paid to the charity. She had many stories about the show and her career. A lovely person. Happy new Year to everyone!
actually wasn't the writers choice to give Sisko a beard. Because DS9 wanted to distance Avery Brooks appearance from his previous role he was contractually obligated to not have a beard for the first 2 seasons. He was respectfully asked to keep the character's appearance consistent when the contract expired, but he respectfully refused.
There was some other behind the scenes stuff going on as well. In a way, Avery Brooks getting his beard back involved a power shift that ultimately gave us Far Beyond the Stars.
@@Unlimited_Lives From what I read it went further than that. He basically "demanded" that Sisko have a shaved head and beard. It's also part of where the fandom expression "Growing the Beard" came from, as coincidentally over on TNG Riker's embrace of chin fuzz indicated an increase in writing quality as well. DS9 just has the balls to point it out. Lower Decks being Lower Decks, they poked fun at this too by having Boimler slowly grow a beard over the final season.
Not quite a demand. Bald and goatee was Avery Brooks' preferred look, and he wanted to resume it. Ira Steven Behr and Rick Berman were expecting to really have to work to make a case to the producers, but they basically said "yeah, whatever".
The backbone of this episode is from voyager for Thor Heyerdahl Who was trying to prove that it was possible for sale across the Pacific from South America for Polynesia on just a wooden raft. It has been proven to be false, but it was very popular on his books around the time of the DS9
Has not been proven false, indeed, it's fairly like it happened based on DNA evidence. What is false is that this is the primary way the Americas were populated.
I absolutely couldn't ignore the science on this one. If you're talking about warp drives and replicators you can technobabble your way through the imaginary science, but not when talking about about solar sails.. Assuming the ship worked at all (and it wouldn't with such tiny sails) it would take centuries at minimum to reach another star system without the unexpected tachyon nonsense. And Dukat being there to congratulate them just takes the cake. Even if he'd known where and when Sisko would arrive the Cardigan government would never acknowledge that Bajor beat them in the space race. More likely they would have just blasted the solar sail to bits, there being no one else around to report that happening.
Presumably Cardassia would keep an eye out for strange unidentified ships approaching their capital system and send ships to intercept them as a matter of course And once they noticed that it was Sisko's ship they probably assumed he was still in contact with his station, so murder was out of the question (After all, how could he come all this way by accident, that'd be crazy) Sure it's maybe not as ruthless as they'd usual be, but they did just have their entire intelligence organisation imploded last week, so that kinda checks out
I would point out that O'Brien has a history of "having someone around". In TNG "The Wounded", Maxwell asks him for the name of the kid that always followed him around.
I've always thought the same thing about the ending of the episode. Fireworks nearby a wooden starship would make for a nice oopsie whoopsie to get rid of Sisko. But I guess Dukat was more concerned about the uncovering of the historic crash site.
A very nice feel-good episode. Yeah the ship working is bollocks but it works with that feeling of miracles and accomplishing impossible things and enjoying life.
Also really enjoy Bashir's side here. Its nothing compelling but just a nice low stakes story that feels human and is easily reletable. Him and OBrien have very natural chemistry in that drunking scene and its a type of vibe you don't see often on Trek
So, if the Bajoran's were able to make solar-sail spaceships, just how did they get them into orbit? I mean, presumably they had some kind of orbital base as a launching pad; I don't see wood being a good material for atmospheric re-entry. Also, as much as I like how they've made Jake someone who has decided not to be a Starfleet brat for a change, compared to probably every single child of a character in Trek, and give him something different to do, why would he need to travel to Earth to do a course? As someone who did their degree through Open University, I find it weird that the Federation has not heard of distance learning. But then in Voyager, they needed to manually give emails to people on a tablet, so I suppose, reasons.
The orbit thing is my biggest gripe. Like yeah space is hard, but getting into orbit and back is way harder. At this point, I’m assuming something like a separate launch ship and the reentry is just magic?
I mean still shows good bonding time between Father and son, nothing like father son going on wacky avengers and showing up a series arrival for it.🎉😂 And did we just get our first reference of Cassidy Rigs?🤭
Continuing a point from last episode; I find it interesting that Bashir and O’Brien drunkenly sing “ And did those feet in ancient time”, a poem first written in the 19th century and put to music in the early 20th. How many people here could recite the word s to centuries old songs, or would occur to them to do so when getting smashed with a friend? I’m guessing about 0. Star Trek’s lack of any sort of contemporary popular culture is really weird and noticeable.
This is one of my favorite episodes of the series and overtime I been able to see both sides Parent / Young Adult dynamics in my own life. Benjamin is one of the TV dads that influenced my parenting.
You owe me a new keyboard for having just snorted coca-cola over my current one after me reading Bashir's "Cocky want boing-boing" with no advanced warning! :D
My thoughts on the "Period Tools" kinda line and the wood and brass. I've always thought that the Bajorians were a space fairing Civilization having the ability to escape the gravity well of Bajor, given that there's a Star Trek nebula near/in system and a Wormhole in orbit, that it was an early solar sail ship. So Benjamin replicated the parts like the wood interior and whatever the outside was made up to assemble the one He and Jake rode in. It's not like they couldn't test it in the cargobay, it can be depressurized there sensors can tell what the air inside other ships are so it would be easy to tell if it's holding Atmo. I'm pretty sure they Beam the cargo into and out of the cargobay that I expect the same for Ben's ship. I don't like going Warp without a Subspace Bubble, however maybe he just meant the Speeds and that it was some other FTL, relating to the Wormhole.
This is one of those episodes that feels both important and unimportant in hindsight. It's important for character stuff because it explains Sisko's beard, Casidy Yates, and why Jake's still on the station when shit hits the fan, but the actual plot of the episode is rather unimportant. Bashir's plot is also...questionable given later revelations as well. In a meta sense we know it's because they hadn't quite decided to have that revelation about him yet, but it's kinda nuts having a person-of-the-week who barely appears in the episode at all. It almost feels like they pulled a subplot for the episode out of a hat filled with possible subplots to fill time in the episode.
I don't really think it's fair to characterise Jake as not getting a future until now. He had his moment of running away from something already, deciding definitively that he was Not Interested in Starfleet a while back. That was arguably just as hard for him as it was for Nog to decide he was Not Interested in business. Nog just had a better option dangled right in front of him on the daily, while Jake took a while longer to figure out what was important to him.
Today's Thought Experiment: How did the original solar sail ship get into orbit?
how did they *get back*
Q.
The prophets did it.
Wooden rockets and an unshakable faith in the prophets...
All the vedeks stood on each other's shoulders and lifted it up.
If I ever own a house near the sea there will be a big sigh ourside. A picture of Gul Dukat with the caption 'Please don't feed the Guls.'
This is the first episode of DS9 I ever saw, and it captured me instantly. It had such a different vibe to all the other Trek I'd seen, and as for seeing a black single father with a fantastic relationship with his son? UNHEARD OF. It will always hold a special place in my heart.
Badassest Sisko loading... 50% complete
Exactly!
Sisko subroutine "responsible father" has encountered an error and needs to close.
So did the ancient Bajorans have inertial dampener tech too? Or did the crashed ships on Cardassia have a lovely red mosiac decor on the aft bulkheads?
You only need inertial dampeners if you're doing hard acceleration. In normal space, solar sails would give you a continuous, gentle push.
The only time it would be relevant is when that science wibbly somehow pushed them into warp. But the nature of warp drive is that the ship isn't really moving at all, it's the space around the ship that's being deformed. So maybe it was something similar for the sail ship?
@@John73JohnI’m more curious how the Bajorans got up and down from space to begin with. The space part is relatively easier compared to getting up there from the planet surface and back down.
Indeed, we'd be talking Bajoran style chunk salsa.
She thought an Andorian was named Julian?
7:07 sextants were used in by the Apollo astronauts to verify their position so it’s not as ridiculous as it seems
I mean all you need are points of reference. Stars will work.
Yep, just need a reference star and an artificial horizon.
@@Ceece20 The "artificial horizon" is the tricky part. Especially since the original ship didn't have gravity plating.
@@John73John
Magic *woosh*
Magic *woosh*
Magic *woosh*
I was going to say the same .. well said.
Your comment on criticisms and how even good-intending ones can be destructive is so fucking on-point that it kinda breaks my heart because you're clearly drawing on some personal experience. Thank you for being a stable source of insightful and enjoyable videos in my feed this year. We don't know each other, but you and I share several common interests and worldviews and in 2025 I want you to know that, NO MATTER WHAT, you are not alone.
May the Prophets bless you in the coming year.
It's good to be wanted Space Dog! I met Chase Masterson (who plays Lyta) many years ago at a small event in Glasgow. A long story short, she had come to help a local fan group raise money for charity. She even auctioned off the bra she was wearing and (as far as I recall) donated the fee she should have been paid to the charity. She had many stories about the show and her career. A lovely person.
Happy new Year to everyone!
actually wasn't the writers choice to give Sisko a beard.
Because DS9 wanted to distance Avery Brooks appearance from his previous role he was contractually obligated to not have a beard for the first 2 seasons. He was respectfully asked to keep the character's appearance consistent when the contract expired, but he respectfully refused.
Oh, that amuses me greatly. Good for him.
There was some other behind the scenes stuff going on as well. In a way, Avery Brooks getting his beard back involved a power shift that ultimately gave us Far Beyond the Stars.
You can tell things were getting serious when he got his goatee.
@@Unlimited_Lives From what I read it went further than that.
He basically "demanded" that Sisko have a shaved head and beard.
It's also part of where the fandom expression "Growing the Beard" came from, as coincidentally over on TNG Riker's embrace of chin fuzz indicated an increase in writing quality as well.
DS9 just has the balls to point it out.
Lower Decks being Lower Decks, they poked fun at this too by having Boimler slowly grow a beard over the final season.
Not quite a demand. Bald and goatee was Avery Brooks' preferred look, and he wanted to resume it. Ira Steven Behr and Rick Berman were expecting to really have to work to make a case to the producers, but they basically said "yeah, whatever".
Stop.
Hammock Time!
The tripods had ships that were living meat, maybe we just don't know how versatile the wood on Bajor is.
Nice to see the Bashir/Garack/O'Brien polycule developing.
The backbone of this episode is from voyager for Thor Heyerdahl Who was trying to prove that it was possible for sale across the Pacific from South America for Polynesia on just a wooden raft. It has been proven to be false, but it was very popular on his books around the time of the DS9
Has not been proven false, indeed, it's fairly like it happened based on DNA evidence. What is false is that this is the primary way the Americas were populated.
I love this episode shows Siskos background in Engineering, the department he belonged to before switching to Command.
It is my understanding Avery Brooks was responsible for the beard
I absolutely couldn't ignore the science on this one. If you're talking about warp drives and replicators you can technobabble your way through the imaginary science, but not when talking about about solar sails.. Assuming the ship worked at all (and it wouldn't with such tiny sails) it would take centuries at minimum to reach another star system without the unexpected tachyon nonsense. And Dukat being there to congratulate them just takes the cake. Even if he'd known where and when Sisko would arrive the Cardigan government would never acknowledge that Bajor beat them in the space race. More likely they would have just blasted the solar sail to bits, there being no one else around to report that happening.
Presumably Cardassia would keep an eye out for strange unidentified ships approaching their capital system and send ships to intercept them as a matter of course
And once they noticed that it was Sisko's ship they probably assumed he was still in contact with his station, so murder was out of the question (After all, how could he come all this way by accident, that'd be crazy)
Sure it's maybe not as ruthless as they'd usual be, but they did just have their entire intelligence organisation imploded last week, so that kinda checks out
lmao ty Admiral Xurik for doing what many of us have been thinking
I would point out that O'Brien has a history of "having someone around". In TNG "The Wounded", Maxwell asks him for the name of the kid that always followed him around.
I've always thought the same thing about the ending of the episode. Fireworks nearby a wooden starship would make for a nice oopsie whoopsie to get rid of Sisko. But I guess Dukat was more concerned about the uncovering of the historic crash site.
Still a safer hobby than most holo-decks
put on your suspenders of dis-belief
3:35 And now I'm tempted to see if I can sponsor a change to Steven Seagul Dukat.
Seagull dukat.. awesomeness thank you admiral
A very nice feel-good episode. Yeah the ship working is bollocks but it works with that feeling of miracles and accomplishing impossible things and enjoying life.
It was a nice episode.
What was Sisko wielding on a wooden spaceship?
Where did he get the WOOD?
@LucasKeesee-vm8yp the Sera Trelkucu Wood Working Emporium located in the city of Janir, near the dry river bed
Also really enjoy Bashir's side here. Its nothing compelling but just a nice low stakes story that feels human and is easily reletable. Him and OBrien have very natural chemistry in that drunking scene and its a type of vibe you don't see often on Trek
Nice job on the name, Admiral Xurik. It suits him.
So, if the Bajoran's were able to make solar-sail spaceships, just how did they get them into orbit? I mean, presumably they had some kind of orbital base as a launching pad; I don't see wood being a good material for atmospheric re-entry.
Also, as much as I like how they've made Jake someone who has decided not to be a Starfleet brat for a change, compared to probably every single child of a character in Trek, and give him something different to do, why would he need to travel to Earth to do a course? As someone who did their degree through Open University, I find it weird that the Federation has not heard of distance learning. But then in Voyager, they needed to manually give emails to people on a tablet, so I suppose, reasons.
The orbit thing is my biggest gripe. Like yeah space is hard, but getting into orbit and back is way harder. At this point, I’m assuming something like a separate launch ship and the reentry is just magic?
I mean still shows good bonding time between Father and son, nothing like father son going on wacky avengers and showing up a series arrival for it.🎉😂
And did we just get our first reference of Cassidy Rigs?🤭
You get to meet Dukat at the end of the journey.
Continuing a point from last episode; I find it interesting that Bashir and O’Brien drunkenly sing “ And did those feet in ancient time”, a poem first written in the 19th century and put to music in the early 20th.
How many people here could recite the word s to centuries old songs, or would occur to them to do so when getting smashed with a friend? I’m guessing about 0. Star Trek’s lack of any sort of contemporary popular culture is really weird and noticeable.
This is one of my favorite episodes of the series and overtime I been able to see both sides Parent / Young Adult dynamics in my own life. Benjamin is one of the TV dads that influenced my parenting.
The episode where Sisko pulls an Adminal Jack Denver without the memory loss.
see gul. see gul dukat. dukat, gul, dukat.
I always thought that when Bajor's many moons aligned it created like some weird gravitational flux on Bajor allowing things to go into Orbit.
You owe me a new keyboard for having just snorted coca-cola over my current one after me reading Bashir's "Cocky want boing-boing" with no advanced warning! :D
My thoughts on the "Period Tools" kinda line and the wood and brass. I've always thought that the Bajorians were a space fairing Civilization having the ability to escape the gravity well of Bajor, given that there's a Star Trek nebula near/in system and a Wormhole in orbit, that it was an early solar sail ship. So Benjamin replicated the parts like the wood interior and whatever the outside was made up to assemble the one He and Jake rode in. It's not like they couldn't test it in the cargobay, it can be depressurized there sensors can tell what the air inside other ships are so it would be easy to tell if it's holding Atmo. I'm pretty sure they Beam the cargo into and out of the cargobay that I expect the same for Ben's ship.
I don't like going Warp without a Subspace Bubble, however maybe he just meant the Speeds and that it was some other FTL, relating to the Wormhole.
This is one of those episodes that feels both important and unimportant in hindsight.
It's important for character stuff because it explains Sisko's beard, Casidy Yates, and why Jake's still on the station when shit hits the fan, but the actual plot of the episode is rather unimportant.
Bashir's plot is also...questionable given later revelations as well. In a meta sense we know it's because they hadn't quite decided to have that revelation about him yet, but it's kinda nuts having a person-of-the-week who barely appears in the episode at all. It almost feels like they pulled a subplot for the episode out of a hat filled with possible subplots to fill time in the episode.
Seeing Seagul Dukat choking on the congratulations to Sisko makes the whole episode one of my favourites of the least interesting ones to me. LOL
Siddig's fault for having mad chemistry with every male costar he was ever put in a scene with.
I don't really think it's fair to characterise Jake as not getting a future until now. He had his moment of running away from something already, deciding definitively that he was Not Interested in Starfleet a while back. That was arguably just as hard for him as it was for Nog to decide he was Not Interested in business. Nog just had a better option dangled right in front of him on the daily, while Jake took a while longer to figure out what was important to him.