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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2023
- Today's strange and unusual deep dive will explore the validity of the Pokemon FireRed LeafGreen Rival's early game bragging. Does he really have 40 Pokemon? Let's find out.
Pokemon hasn't had a rival quite like the original introduced in the first generation of games. Blue perfectly sets the stage for what a competitor and strong trainer looks like this in the world and would be used as a model for every Pokemon game to come. Known for his sharp attitude and incredible teams, Blue has been a fan favorite character since his original release with good reason. He's pretty cool.
In your third encounter with him, he makes the bold early game claim that he already has 40 Pokemon at 2 badges. Long has it been wondered if this is actually true, or if he's up to no good. Today we explore his story and the validity of that claim in the latest Pokemon Investigation taking place in gen 3 pokemon. Let's dive in!
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let me know if there are any other individual lines of dialogue I should spend 20 minutes looking at. kind of a thing at this point
plot twist: he had access to his own trades, gift pokemon, gear, and could jump over cut trees on his own.
''If I'm Wearing A Bikini... Where Do I Put My Pokéballs? Teehee... Woman's Secret.''
Requesting more videos like this one
How about exploring every single bin in the Pokemon world for items like that one bin in the kitchen?
@@shogundy1so here's the thing: you should be counting the version exclusives, because enemy trainers can have them. It's just a gimmick to make you buy a link cable. But in universe, the rival should be allowed to have those version exclusives.
Route 4: Sandshrew
Route 5: Bellsprout
Blue is a rich kid, he probably had all the fishing rods from the start.
Also maybe the reason you can only find 2 moon stones is because he picked up the rest.
Smell ya later!
That was my exact thought. He definitely has some stones that you don't. Thunderstone for the Raichu too.
Of course the same logic could apply to in-game trades too, there could be an unknown number of trades that the player can't have access to because he already did them. Considering that he's always ahead of you on everything for the entire game, I see no reason to think he didn't do both of these things.
No real evidence to support that he's rich. His Grandfather does own a lab which may be expensive to own, but wouldn't you think the rival would also live in a mansion and not a house similar to yours. The money he gives out to you pales in comparison to the rich boys who give you 1600 Pokedollars on your first encounter versus Blue's measly 80 pokedollars in his first match, which even in the champion fight still caps at 6300 pokedollars. His clothing is also not something rich people would wear even if they are minimalist. Dude is far from rich.
@@MrCheezecame here to say exactly that
@@ShaulaXNinja Bruh you think that just because they're rich, you're entitled to a higher tip? laaame
that was a joke for anyone who doesn't understand them
@@alexanderelderhorst2107okay try to explain the house, how come blue’s house looks exactly like red’s? If he is indeed rich
The Moon Stone argument kinda falls apart when you consider that perhaps there were only 2 Moon Stones in the cave _because_ he already took the other ones.
And maybe there were more pokemon available through trades, and he got to them first too.
@@EmpyreanRagnarokThat doesn't work, since he tells you to find them in grass. He doesn't tell you to do more trades.
This applies to the other evolution stones and it also applies to Saffron City potentially not being blocked by Team Rocket yet for Blue. If so, he could get all the pokemon around the centre.
If he had the others why not use them then?
@@TheRagev3 Why does the rival only use 4 pokemon if he has 40? He's training different teams/catching different mons.
Considering that version exclusivity doesn't apply to Rival, since he ends up with an Arcanine regardless of whether you're playing FireRed or LeafGreen, he could easily have picked up both an Oddish and a Bellsprout on Route 24, as well as a Sandshrew and a Ekans on Route 4.
that means he's not playing the same game you are, which means he's cheating by accounts of breaking the limits of the game.
the no trading rule was arbitrary anyway. you and him can just trade for those pokemon and thus I would not say it's cheating at all.
-trying to prove Blue wrong
-gey proven fraud by comments
@@woobgamer5210but version-exclusive is a concept outside of their understanding, as it is only created for us players to trade irl. If it’s in the pokedex, it is catchable for them.
@@RoyJic still breaking the limits of the game WE are playing
I like to think Blue's total at that point was somewhere between 36-39 and he just rounded up so it sounded more impressive since that's just the kind of guy he is
Totally agreed. After you defeat him in the league and you get your national dex, he is angry at you and says to oak that he's caught more pokemon than you, regardless of the amount you have. So if you completed the kanto pokedex it means he already got from another region, and if you completed the national pokedex it means he has pokemon not created by the time in real life (from sinnoh)
Nevermind he in any case should have one-off pokemon like the legendaries. He clearly lies
This comment shouldn't be so far down the list, that was my first thought. Why are we trusting he isn't rounding up. Our even doubling his actual number just to sound impressive. I mean, 10 year olds never exaggerate right?
You read my mind. He was totally rounding it up. Heck, maybe he didn't quite remember precisely how many it was and just remembered 'oh, it's close to 40,' so he went with 40. He's too cool to need to need exact stats.
Either way, if you tried calling him on it by saying he only has 39, he'd probably roll his eyes at you and be like "yeah, and? that's still more than you have" and tell you not to be so pedantic. It's like if he said "it's 2:30 pm" and you went "um ackshully it's 2:27 pm"-- while correct, it makes you look petty and childish. So he wins either way. It's foolproof.
Maybe he encountered a missingno.
One important thing to note, your rival was ahead of you. So he arrived in mount moon before you and very well could have found 6 stones and left you 2. Found items are also not dispensaries and can only be picked up once. He also could have gotten to the guards to saffron before they got thirsty allowing him tp pass through giving him access to Celadon early too.
Finally someone who mentions the fact that the guards are most likely only mean to you.
Dam that's a good point. I brought up oak in bill's light house tells ash gary had already obtained 45 pokemon. So it has to be legit.
He is the rich grandson of the highly respected Professor Oak. He has money, the influence and possibly the better look than our character.
He is just winning at life and has access to many opportunities we will never have
@@tevinstrachan1421 He could also have access to knowledge that is exclusive to a professor's family allowing him to find rare Pokemon (that are version exclusives).
Two other avenues. The snorlax had not blocked off the route, he had time to catch pokemon up or down from the snorlax and comeback before the snorlax settled to sleep.
As an influential kid, Rival has access to the different rods. allowing him to catch a number of water pokemon you do not have access to.
I think the fact that Blue is carrying a useless abra of all things during one of his rival fights more than demonstrates the fact that he is willing to sacrifice strength temporarily for greater success in the future. Imo, he has at least one other pokemon evolved in the box that he simply isn't using right now because he's focusing on training pokemon he sees greater potential in.
By that logic, there's no way Blue would focus on overleveling weak Pokémon just to get their evolutions faster, if he's not planning on using them. Would he stunt his starter's growth in order to train weak fully evolved Pokémon, knowing that starters are really strong? The fact that Ivysaur is only level 20 indicates that he has no Pokémon above that level, if he really is training up the best team he can.
@@luluzin5022 His grandpa-given quest was to complete the pokédex, not to be an overleveling munchkin. So why not? Mind you, in all battles except first and last he isn't seeking you, but accidentally ran unto you.
Blue probably uses Abra to teleport from A to B, since by that time in the game he doesnt have enough badges for Fly yet.
@@jayzeetv Can he do this if Teleport only warps him to the last Poke Center he visited?
I agree, also he runs into you passing by. He doesn't seek you out to show you his ace team, with the exception of the 5th fight in silph and the 6th fight after Viridian Gym.
Blue was actually pretty friendly if you've played the game again as an adult. He helps you out, gives you advice, etc. He's just a Tsundere.
No! He's a big meanie!
I was thinking this yesterday while playing OG Red, he's actually very helpful and also pushes you to catch up to him and be just as strong as him. He's not the jerk I thought he was as a kid.
@@kxngxerxes. My generation, maybe yours, had Gary poisoning our view of Blue.
Yes and Oak is actually liking Blue more he lets you choose first so blue can pick the one with advantage. And at the end he is just going to the league because blue became champion. He would not be there if the player won first.
Ikr. I also noted how deep down he cares for us, but he did give the impression of an annoying brat so theres that.
Idk if the remake rewrote him to be less of an asshat or he was always like that from the original.
For me, it was the devs who decided 40 pokemon was very close to the maximum that you could get until that part. It's like a message to the player "if you search hard enought, you can get much more".
Exactly what I was thinking
Starter --> Starter2 --> Starter3 (Pallet Town)
Pidgey --> Pidgeotto --> Pidgeot (Routes 2, 3, 5, 6, 24, 25)
Rattata --> Raticate (Routes 1, 2, 4, 22)
Spearow --> Fearow (Routes 3, 4 11, 22)
Nidoran (M) --> Nidorino --> Nidoking* (Route 22)
Nidoran (F) --> Nidorina --> Nidoqueen* (Route 22, In-game trades on Routes 5, 11)
Caterpie --> Metapod --> Butterfree (Routes 2Blue , 24Blue , 25, Viridian Forest)
Weedle -- > Kakuna --> Beedrill (Routes 2Red , 24Red , 25, Viridian Forest)
Pikachu (Viridian Forest)
Jigglypuff --> Wigglytuff* (Route 3)
Magikarp --> Gyarados (Buy on Route 3, Fish with Old Rod anywhere)
Zubat --> Golbat (Mt. Moon)
Geodude --> Graveler (Mt. Moon)
Paras --> Parasect (Mt. Moon)
Clefairy --> Clefable* (Mt. Moon)
Ekans/Sandshrew --> Arbok/Sandslash (Routes 4, 11)
Abra --> Kadabra (Routes 24, 25)
Oddish/Bellsprout --> Gloom/Weepinbel (Routes 5, 6, 24, 25)
Mankey/Meowth --> Primeape/Persian (Routes 5, 6)
Farfetch'd (In-game trade in Vermilion City)
Drowzee --> Hypno (Route 11)
Diglett --> Dugtrio (Diglett's Cave)
Mr. Mime (In-game trade on Route 2)
Thats makes 48
My thinking is that it's following a classic Japanese game design trope- set your rival up as impossibly better than you
1 more of a thing than you can possibly get.
We see it in cases of impossible to win battles, or the race in Zelda ocarina of time
Actually i was wrong. I calculated out what red and blue are capable of getting prior to the ss anne fight and got 41. No trades, no trade evolves, 2 moon stones only.
So I'm dumb
Yes but the devs also made it very possible to get mor than 40 at that point. If you just use what the game gives you its easy to have mor than 40. The level cap and stone limit is bullshit. He just wanted to fail to prove a point.
@@johnny4616 Ok, it's all fine until you check what HE said, "Catch"
Remove the evolutions as catch, you will end up as 24
consider this: In Lavender town, your rival can have an exeggcute, which CANNOT be caught at that point. Your rival can either A) trade pokemon you do not have access to you, or B) he has caught pokemon that you do not have access to.
There is a headbutt TM that can be bought in Goldenrod City that allows a trainer to easily catch an exeggcute.
From Johto's port city, traveling to Goldenrod City, a trainer could encounter a tauros, magnemite, meowth, raticate that is level 16, and some johto pokémon.
In Pokémon Red north of Cerulean City players can find a venonat, that's below level 10. Venonat are also found in Johto's forest south of Goldenrod City.
@@dakotashroom5401I don’t think fire red and leaf green have the headbutt mechanic
@@dakotashroom5401not doable in firered/leafgreen
@@dakotashroom5401that's Johto
This is Kanto. That mechanic doesn't exist in this game
@@dakotashroom5401 why are you talking about what appears to be gen2 GSC or gen4 HGSS versions? Headbutt mechanic doesn't exist in RBY and FRLG versions.
My problem is that your rival isn’t bound by the rules of the game. Version exclusives, items. Both in lore and logic, he has access to things you just might not.
Exactly s as if he did propose that as a hypothesis around 24:30
At the same time you can catch a legendary the moment you get surf...
And yet you're just downright better than him at the end of the game. To be a master and all that.
There would be no reason for Rival to bring only 4 Pokemon to the fight (max lvl 20) if he actually caught over 40.
I always thought that it was because he had access to all available, not limited by "exclusivity" of the versions
"Ha! I already have 40 Pokemon!"
*And I took that personally...*
I forgot if you did a video on this or not, but early evolution is a lore thing. Man loved his rat. I don't think it's stupid that it works that way for other trainers, but it would be interesting to see it implemented for players. Someone else in the comments noted how Gary catches trains other pokemon constantly (which is why I think you fight him without 6 pokemon at times), so that also lines up with his starter not leveling when it's level 18 in one encounter; the logic lines up that he's somewhat neglecting his starter for his goals.
You can catch pokemon that are below the level required to evolve. In Heart Gold i encountered a wild lvl 15 gyarados
The Rival is not bound by version exclusives. When you catch Ekans and Oddish he catches Sandshrew and Bellsprout too.
Exactly my thought
True, Arcanine is a version exclusive so it does hold true
So that would bring his total to 41 if he did all that. Damn it Blue you missed one 😂
That or he trades
This and the trading are probably the best canon answers
I like how blue lived rent free in your head enough to do this tedious grind only to get 39 you are one step behind him after all “smell ya later”
holy fuck what a fucking chad
I’m bringing your number of likes to the 2nd gen
Only because he placed limits on himself when Blue doesn't have the limit restrictions you have. For example getting an Alakazam while you can only have a Kadabra without someone to trade with. I would allow whatever is accessable up to SS. Ann. If you grind in Digletts cave you can have well over 40 in the Pokedex
Bro that made the little song play in my head wtf
I like the idea that Chuck has actually evolved a bunch of Pokemon, but he is sandbagging to make the fights against you fair. He's sitting here with some level 60 pokemon, sees his childhood rival, and decides to play up the meanie act and throw the fight to help motivate you to do better
the items "dropped" by trainers that you find could be a fraction of what they were because your rival, who always seems to be ahead of you, could have helped himself to things you couldn't get...
It says in the dialogue, that Bill the poke maniac showed him a bunch of Pokémon to fill pages
The rival didn't say "unique" kinds, so its always possible that he meant that he was counting like 8 Ratattas and 12 Pidgeys or whatever
That would be supported by the anime, where he has over two hundred pokemon, but not a finished pokedex.
I mean let's be honest he's implying he has 40 different pokemon.
He may be implying it, but that doesn't mean he's not being intentionally misleading to make himself look better.
Exactly what I thought
He specifically said 40 kinds, not 40 pokemon, though.
We already know version exclusivity doesn't apply to Blue, since if you're playing LeafGreen then Growlithe can't be found in the wild, yet he still finds one.
Exactly. And the player does have access to them through trading, so this video is disingenuous in saying that they can’t obtain them. Very easily boosts the count over 40.
Well, your rival doesn't have a Vulpix, so...maybe he traded his exclusive for a growlithe in leaf green?
In my mind, version-exclusives should really count to the score. Its only point in the game is for you to trade with people irl, but in the perspective of Blue and Red, there’s no such thing as version-exclusives. If Growlithe is present in a particular grass, so should Vulpix.
Is trading not a concept that exists to y'all?
@@stateofdisarreiRival has a method to "very easily" boost the count over 40, and yet sandbags by bringing only 4 Pokemon, of which the highest level is only 20? Yeah, I don't buy that.
Basically it is totally possible to have 40 Pokemon at that point, but video maker wanted to keep the prejudiced opinion and limited it in a way he could say the rival is lying. But who is the real liar here?
with trade you can literally complete the dex at any point, it just doesn't make sense to the rival to not use this
The guy who did the video probably doesn't understand anything and spouting bs
@juliodonofreo the ingame trades are part of the game. His argument is that they only trade once, so they wouldn't be available for the rival. But by the same logic, there could be trades available for the rival that are just not available for the player.
And NPC are not limited like the player. He can move freely in this world. If he wants to go to a city he can just take a bus.
By my count, if not restricted, he should have 40 by the time he leaves MT Moon
Bill's experiment actually comes up again in Sun/Moon. Lillie departs to Kanto after hearing about it, looking for a way to cure her mother after she merged with the Ultra Beast.
It's probably already been said in these thousands of comments but I wasn't seeing it.
really? how? doesnt sun and moon take place years and years after red and blue? or was that sun and moon 2 where it's more implied that it took place years after?
@@sonic-bb…what? are you illiterate? do you understand what you just typed? of course Lillie heard of an event that happened years before SuMo
In universe, i could say: There are *Other* traders out there, who may not want to trade with you at all because he traded with them first! You only find the ones he didn't even bother with.
I was looking for this comment! What if he traded his Ekans for a Grimer with a rocket grunt? What if he received a gift Jynx? Those are pokemon he wouldn't use but could definitely been in his PC since every time we see him, he's always ahead of us, in a new area. No wonder he left us Farfetch'd and Lickitung trades, and even Mr. Mime who's a lot worse than Alakazam
Awesome. I was looking for someone else to say this too.
Yeah, makes sense that he could pass on trading his Abra for a Mr. Mime.
Makes sense. He traded with in game NPC traders.
I traded with a finished game and completed the pokedex at the start of the journey... 😅
the same can be said for the moon stones
You actually just proved that it's feasible for him to have 40 by that point. I expected a lot less then 35ish; considering he's not constrained to game logic (could already have better fishing rods, access to trades and items you didn't, and doesn't have to worry about version exclusivity), it's absolutely possible for him to have 40, with the other evolutions in he box, since he's trying to fill the pokedex.
He probably only kept only 4 low-level Pokémon in the party to get some handicap, just to be fair to the player ;)
Not to mention
He could just be better at finding pokemon.
There's nothing really saying he couldn't have found something like a Route 1 Tangela or Likitung, and you just can't.
And he could have more and just stated 40 assuming you didn't have that much
Because if you don't play by "his" rules you could have more than 40
I think the version exclusives should've been included. The player has access to player trading. And lore-wise it could be seen as you trading with just some other trainer. Even if you use the same progression and level rules imposed on both players in the trade, this can bring it up to 40, even excluding Dugtrio.
He have more money so he bought two versions of the game
One thing that's also missing is Horsea and Crabby, Vermilion City is the town with the first Fishing Guru so is plausible that as Blue got there first the Guru gave him a Good Rod and fish Krabby and Horsea there, then Red arrives later and the guru can only offer the Old Rod as the good one was given to Blue first.
The "I've already caught 40 different kinds pal" will forever make me rip out my hair.
One thing worth noting is that Blue is always ahead of you in his adventure. With things like trades or stones, its entirely possible he had access to more opportunities and took most of them and only leaving you with any he didnt need
What a jerk. At least my first rival wasn't a jerk, just a trainer with no patience and couldn't stand still for 10 seconds.
Its not about story.. its about progressing of the player's collection... By his stand, the op was not able to get 40 pkm through catching before 20 lvl cap but he also ignore the fact that the rival's rattata was able to evolve under level requirement
@@shironoyami7002But he did get to 40, and could have gotten more. In addition, I found his reasoning for barring trades and subtracting moonstones makes no sense.
@@Reepecheep Exactly. He could have other trades that weren't available to us.
Why does he only have 4 Pokemon in his party? He has no issue using all 6 later in the game. Why keep 36 pokemon of different kinds in the PC, when that puts you at a severe disadvantage?
I always thought Blue was being a bit friendly in that encounter and trying to give you advice. In fact, when I replayed through Fire Red not too long ago I was shocked that Blue...wasn't all that mean. He gives you tips, gives you free items sometimes, etc. The only thing that could be rude is "smell you later," but that just seems to be his catchphrase. He says that to other people in later games.
Heck they even bring that up in Kalos that he was able to learn Kalosian easily but still told people "smell ya later"
He was never an asshole in the game really
I think it's more the cocky pose he takes for some battles, his smug little smirk in his official art, how much of a brat he is at the start, and his boasting, all of it wrapped up with the feeling that he's being condescending towards you, especially with those tips. In RBY, for instance, on the S.S. Anne, he tells you to crawl around in the grass. Finally, listen to his theme and tell me that's not the theme of a jerk.
I think a lot of people look at Gary and they look at Silver and they go “Oh, Blue must’ve been really mean, because why else would these guys be mean?”
@@FerreTrip indeed a jerk theme
He probably caught like 30 unique Pokémon and 10 spares.
6:26 Not to be that guy, but I think Bulbasaur is your best pick for a challenge like this because of its access to Sleep Powder. Having a way to put Pokémon to Sleep early on will make catching more consistent, allowing you to catch Pokémon easier/faster and even, cheaper, because you’ll end up needing less PokéBalls.
Remember that with the exception of the first and last battles, every one of them is portrayed as him accidentally running into you, so there's nothing forcing the suggestion that he is using his strongest team. He would catch Pokémon, use them until they evolved for Dex entry and then box them. That's why his starter was never overlevelled and his team was often not fully evolved Pokémon, with the exception of his raticate that had a rare form of pokegigantism that caused it to evolve early. He wanted to train it to level 20 so it looked normal and so you didn't accuse him of cheating, but then he ran into you and was forced to battle with his malformed rat, causing it to suffer a fatal heart attack
Also that his uncle is a Pokemon professor, so he most likely knows about IVs and evs. So well he might not be using the most evolved Or most level he might be using the pokemon with the most promising IVs.
And he does think he's better than you so actually isn't crazy to think that he'd use a less powerful team just for the extra bragging rights.
Why am I trying to save the integrity of someone I hate? Lol
@@craig2196All of his pokemon have 0 IVs and EVs
@@craig2196because you want anything discrediting him to be all the more justified because it is tested on multiple aspects
@@truekurayami why would I want to discredit him?
Could have ended the video in under 5 seconds he do not even have a team of 6 pokemon and not even at final evolution.
What you aren't factoring in is that the rival is always ahead of you. Maybe these towns had a bunch of people looking for trades that he made before you could get there. Maybe he picked Mt. Moon mostly clean of moon stones and all that was left for you were some scraps.
And why are we assuming rival’s telling the truth about doing it catch-only? He’s probably trading with other players off camera. He’s got both Oddish and Gloom! Beedrill and Butterfree! And a load of late game stuff to boot! 😡
@@lindsaywheatcroft8247 Gloom is above the level cap. Beedrill and Butterfree are included in the total.
He might also have just asked some rando for fresh water instead of going all the way to the biggest shop in the country just for that
This was my thought when he was talking about the lack of moonstones
Also, maybe he used the only thunderstone to evolve Pikachu!
the BIGGEST issue, is the fact that the rival uses cartridge exclusive pokemon in the form of Growlithe and Arcanine, meaning he has access to fire red cartridge even if you are playing on leaf green.
If the player plays Pokemon Fire Red then the rival plays Pokemon Leaf Green, and vice versa
@@jhgvvetyjj6589but he has Arcanine despite the game, so no.
He has money too, he can buy the rods instead of beg for it lol
- catched 40 different Pokemon.
-Still used a effing Raticate against you.
G'damn Genius bar.
Atleast with the moon stones. Blue doesn't have to be restricted to the same in game pick up limitations. It's 100% possible on his journey he found 4. So atleast I think we can rule that in his favor.
Maybe there were 6 or more Moon Stones in the cave, and he came across 4 of them before you reached them.
@@Zuxtron I mean it's possible. I think it's best put that we are playing with the same limitations on what pokemon are avaliable and where we can go but not all game rules apply like what items can be found since that ides means we as the player are competing over the same items which isn't true
He also could have found other items, maybe a thunder stone.
@Carson_Neiss its also possible he found a better fishing rod than the old rod. While it's cheeky game design, we can't blame blue the character for potentially having access to items found by the player later. The character would have no way of knowing the player wouldn't be able to find them
Also if we're calling into question that he's not allowed to have version exclusives or evolve Pokémon early, then by that logic nobody should ever have version exclusives or early evolutions. It's implied through Lance being a master of the dragon type that with his training, he's able to have at least one Dragonite, so why would it be any different for Blue to have a Raticate?
Love that you did this! I remember being bothered by his claim as a kid because he claimed to have 40 Pokémon but only had 4 with him!!!
I suppose the only issue here is that we are assuming the rival is subject to the rules of living in a video game and only has the same opportunities we had. If we take the Pokémon world as real for a minute, it's more than possible that he encountered other trainers willing to trade with him in order to obtain other Pokémon that we couldn't. Maybe Oak owned a speedboat that he borrowed to get to Cinnabar island early. How would version exclusives and level caps even factor in here? This would also mean he can't be criticised for chastising us as he had no way of knowing what we were or weren't capable of achieving.
Still, really enjoyed this video. Always fun to see alternative ways of playing these games :)
Bill's teleporter accident is actually a reference to the horror movie called "The Fly" , where an unfortunate scientist accidentally gets his genome combined with the one of a housefly.
One thing to consider is ; if we have access to trades that we disqualify the rival for, he may have access to trades that we were too late to be offered, as he is always geographically ahead of us.
Maybe you've just now discovered the story of the house in Pewter City, with the people who own a traded Nidoran that doesn't listen to them... since Blue may have caught one on Route 22 ;)
Yeah. Maybe he WAS offered Farfetched and Mr Mime but he considered those too weak and didn't make the trade... which is why they're still available to us! Maybe there were 5 potential trades and he took 3 of them. He's got some version exclusives buffing up his numbers
he does say Bill showed him all of his rare pokemon and that that raised his pokedex entries, but I don't think that counts as "caught". He could still be counting that of course
Bill and him did trade backs to fill out dex entries, new canon.
@@Carson_Neiss might be more canon than you think when you realize he had to trade in order to get his Alakazam
Those only register as Seen, don't they?
i think that dialogue is simply a reminder that you can see all the eeveelution from Bill
I always get 40 Pokemon before I hit the SS Anne because of this dialog so yeah, definitely possible.
You can get Moonstones from wild Clefairies as well, but even without that and considering some of the Pokemon on his party aren't fully evolved and excluding the in game trades, if he caught and evolved everything, he can even have 45 (43 without Moonstones).
The problem with your set of rules is that your rival would not have followed said rules and would have boxed any mons that didn't obey.
Honestly, because he is ahead of you, it’s possible that there are completely different trades and one-off gifts Pokemon that the rival encounters and uses before you get to that area as well as better fishing rods. There could even be road-blocks similar to Snorlax that he clears before you get there. And just because Dugtrio is strong doesn’t mean he has to use it. It could be that he already had a plan for what his final team was going to be and decided to not waste time on Dugtrio post evolution. I do that with it all the time.
Maybe he gave the two traders their Mr. Mime and Farfetch’d.
Dugtrio isn't even that good. Sure its fast and hits hard but it has really, really bad hp and defense.
@@Victoria3WorldConquerer
Goofy, that’s all you need to be good in Gen 1-3. Hell, that’s still what makes top tiers top tiers now in Gen 9. And Arena Trap is one of the best abilities in the series.
@@DCBiscuit Well i'l admit I don't know much about gens 1 to 3 but in gen 9 its really not good. According to pokemon showdown its tier is PU (the lowest teir).
@@Victoria3WorldConquerer
Because trapping isn’t really worthwhile in Gen 9. Dugtrio in Gen 3 locks in targets it can finish off and it kills them. In gens where it isn’t top tier, it’s usually a stat thing more than what it can do. Dugtrio’s 100 attack is considered just good in Gen 8 and 9, so you can see part of the problem there since 100 in Gen 4 was outright great. But there’s a reason why Shadow Tag and Arena Trap got their users banned, with one of them being stuck to a Mega Pokemon.
I think you missed a possibility with the concept of trades, the rival could've had their own exclusive trades with other npcs
That's what I was thinking. Sure, we can discount the Farfetch'd and Mr Miime trades available to us, but we have no idea how many 1-time trades he made ahead of us that we just never know about.
It's still overwhelmingly likely he's a bold-faced liar, but we'd never truly prove it without asking to see his Pokedex. Sadly Red's not much good at talking and asking such things...
I mean he did say he caught them plus he seems the type to not want to trade as much as possible because theres no way you (or someone else) caught better stuff than him
we know for a fact that he traded with someone. It is literally the only way you can evolve his kadabra. And I also think the term "caught" is the same thing as getting them from a trade. If you're going for pokedex completion, trading isnt optional, you'll still say caught.
@@taviamemories3087 right but he would have to trade back or else someone elsw just gets his alakazam
@@dylandownie4989 that's fine. He probably did. He has an Alakazam, so he did factually trade. I saw a theory awhile back, that maybe he offered somebody his ratacate in exchange for evolving his Kadabra.
I’ve been stuck watching upsetting drama videos all day cuz like, you click one and suddenly it’s your entire recommended, and I’m just so curious that I keep clicking and it’s exhausting, I was scrolling thru more recommended videos trying to escape these types of videos cuz it would only upset me (I would’ve searched for content I wanted to see instead but couldn’t think of any, I was in the process of trying to think of something to search when I came across this) and I found this video, so thank you, it’s a perfect segue from serious drama to fun videos. No matter if I agree with the evidence or not, I’m thankful this is here lol.
man, Blue does all that lying and Red still marries him.
There could have been 6 moonstones in Mt. Moon and your rival took 4 of them and that's why you can only find 2.
it is pretty smart to use thief to get those moonstones. but I do wonder how u use thief on a low level pikachu to get lightball though?
You'd have to use a super low level Ratatta in order to try looking for a light ball on pikachu
Imagine that scene:
All the Hikers and Youngsters went to Mt. Moon to train and explore (plus that one Youngster who is there to "show off to girls" ;) ). Team Rocket and Super Nerds are there for the fossils. The player character shows up and immediately tries to stop Team Rocket despite bearly knowing anything about them...
And in the middle of all of this, the rival is like "I'm just here for the Moon Stones or whateva them shits called".
You can also get the held items by catching the Pokemon and then removing them from them once they're in the PC. Using Thief where possible is just more time-efficient.
@@globalistgamer6418 well, also money. Pokeballs are only free if you farm apricorns.
If you're discounting trades because they only have the one to give, then it stands to reason that there might also exist trades that your rival got the last one of, since he's always ahead of you on the journey and would have first pick of all the best trades available.
Would certainly explain why Farcetch’d is so bad. No way Blue would want THAT…
I don't play modern Pokemon but there is no way Farfetch'd is a bad Pokemon in gen 1
@@Thatsnotgonnawork While I wouldn’t say Farcetch’d was the absolute worst pokemon even in Gen 1 (this was before abilities, items, etc. to make even Magikarp scary in the right conditions), it was pretty bad.
Bad stats, thin movepool, etc. It got STAB Slash with good crit, but even double damage and STAB didn’t help it much. Especially since you had to trade a Spearrow, which is better since it could’ve evolved into a Fearrow.
Even its NAME is a sign it wasn’t intended to be good. Its Japanese name is a reference to an idiom, ‘a duck comes bearing green onions’. The second interpretation was that anybody expecting something so convenient is a sucker, a ‘duck’. Farfetchd’s nickname is ‘Dux’
@@narutardkyuubi Badge boost+swords dance trivializes most of the game. Easy accessibility, faster exp growth, ect gives it an advantage over other Pokemon. He's also one of the better HM slaves. No way you can call that a "bad" Pokemon lol
@@narutardkyuubiI always thought it was a reference to Frank Dux from Blood Sport, the Jean Claud Van Damme movie
I think you could’ve included in game trades or gifts if you’d decided to assume that the ones the player meets represent an average of however many any trainer might meet as they venture though the region at any given time
I don’t usually comment on vids but just wanted to say finding your channel has been such a joy! It brings back all of the different ways the games occupied my thoughts growing up! Looking forward to more of your videos
I’d like to put forward that it’s implied the rival has more money and resources. They probably have all fishing rods and access to any evolution stones they need from Oak’s lab
as well as not being locked out of areas by needing a tea or whatever it is
he. blue is a male. keep this they them shit away from gen 1
I remember that from the anime, but was Blue being rich actually implied in the gen 1 games too?
@@MisterSpeedStackingcome on dude using "they" singularly is regular and common and has been for hundreds of years . This is not some "they them" shit, no one is after you or pushing an agenda by speaking english
@@spitfiremase please show us a historical text calling napoleon, charlemagne, queen elizabeth or newton a they them and not by their proper genders
"I already caught forty kinds, pal" -boy who quite visibly doesn't even have a full team of six
This is a stronger statement than the whole 30 min video
I think Blue having one more pokemon than you are possibly able to have at that point is a very nice detail considering the whole deal with Blue is he's always one step ahead of Red. I know it's a coincidence since a lot less pokemon are available at that point in the game in RBY but it also does raise a question to Gamefreak as to the one less available pokemon at that point in the game in FRLG
It would be very easy for the programmers to just adapt the number of pokemon he says at this dialog to be your current number + 1
To be fair... Bill's research in Kanto might have led to the breakthrough in Blueberry Academy where you can run around as a pokemon
Playing the first games when I was younger, this exact statement that he had 40 Pokemon also pissed me off. So one day I started a Pokemon Yellow save and grinded to the point where I had 41 Pokemon before the SS Anne battle with the rival. It felt really good :D
same here, though I don't remember if I had 40, 41 or more or wether or not I used trade to even top that
@@merlin3361 I definitely did not use proper trades, as this save was on a phone emulator, but I guess I had done the in game trades that were possible by this point.
Is it coded like he checks the number of Pokémon and always has them +1 or always 40? And what happens if you have 41 or more (thanks to trades)?
@@Lucarivyle Always 40, under normal circumstances that would be enough of a flex.
@@Lucarivyle he always says 40. If we have 41, then he just makes a fool of himself by saying that he has 40, and you feel much better because you outdid him :D
I think forcing Blue to a 2 moonstone limit is a bit dense seeing as he's always ahead of you meaning you found the 2 he didn't need after he went on his way. Another thing about Blue is he enjoys a fair fight even if he wants to pretend he's better than Red in every way. It's possible he may purposely not use Dugtrio, the Nidos, and Gyarados knowing they make his journey too easy at that point.
This video also doesn't take into account that he might be going for a living dex, even with a ratticate he may also have a rattatta
Also could use the theory that he caught a Dugtrio in Digletts cave, it got transferred to the PC when he caught it and he subsequently boarded the S.S Anne not giving him a chance to withdraw Dugtrio from the PC 🤷♂️
@@tiredenby437 That wouldn't matter. If he caught only one Rattata and evolved it, it would count as 2 Pokédex slots just as having both at the same time would.
Given the amount of times he ambushes you on a route or when you're fighting through Sylph Co., i wouldn't say this asshat does anything fair.
If I were blue I wouldn't use Dugtrio.
He doesn't just catch the pokemon that are the strongest at the time and use them. He catches the pokemon that will be the strongest in the long term and trains them into powerhouses. Or at least that's his intention. That's the reason he will eventually have a Gyarados and that's the reason he gets an Abra. Both Magikarp and Abra are mostly useless but they become very strong pokemon.
Doing an entire challenge run just to disprove a Rival's single boisterous claim of catching 40 Pokémon is a level of petty that I aspire to
All joking aside, great video! Loved some of the edits on this
“But it’s just a theory, a GAME THEORY thanks for watching.”
maybe the kanto was full of people that wanted to trade their pokemon, but as your rival always is a few steps ahead of you in his journey, he traded nearly all of them, so we always got the impression that there are only a select few people willing to make trades with us. that's how he got his 40 and also why it is impossible to you to do the same
The early bird gets the worm. Not that i agree with that statement.
I find it weird the content creator excluded pokemon like Zubat and stuff because of level requirements because who says that blue did?
@@Londonlink ESPECIALLY when he mentioned the Raticate. If he uses a pokemon that needed 4 lvl to evolve what makes him believe Blue doesn't have many others that evolved earlier than the norm?
On the moonstone caveats, I think it’s reasonable to assume that the rival could have found plenty of moonstones in the cave before you get there, considering he is perpetually ahead of you. He could be the reason there’s so few moon stones available lol.
How would he have gotten through the fossils in the way if he came before you?
@@mostlysure1077 the fossils? They're literally just some rocks on the ground. He went around them. Or picked it up, walked past it, and not recognizing what it was put it back
@Terrible_name the player can't put it back or walk around it. And why would the rival put it back if it could easily be transformed into a free pokemon later?
@Terrible_name It can't just be because he just didn't recognize them. He'd have no reason to put them back. And he shouldnt be allowed to do that either since the player can't put items back.
@@mostlysure1077
But in context, we are the players playing a game as a poor 10 year old who just got kicked out of his house. He is a person living in a world of magical creatures with a VERY Influential family, and nearly endless money & Recourses.
In all fairness, you excluded Alakazam, which he could have has just after Kadabra (which he for sure has, evidenced by his Champion fight). This could have been a touch trade with an NPC which possibly could add +1 to his dex that he decides to lie about and say he caught (something like Mr. Mime).
Also he could have caught Dugtrio and heard rumors of level caps and decided he's rather not risk using it in the gym because it might be too strong to listen to him?
Peehaps he did have a dugtrio but didnt bring it on the ship as he was worried what might happen if he used dig on a ship, and the 2 missing team slots could be because some of his pokemon were fainted before his match with you. We should give him the benefit of the doubt, afterall this is a guy who has 10 Kanto gym badges!
As people mentioned he gets an alakazam and has version exclusives you wouldn't normally have like growlithe so he can definitely trade. Plus he seems like a popular guy when he gives you the fame checker and got an invitation to the ss Anne party. With all this he would be able to get a few trades easily.
Mostly valid, although he did not get an invitation, he disguised himself as a waiter.
My math to land at exactly 42 Pokemon (since he says "more that 40"). Without using any stones; no third state evolutions (save for the Viridian Forest bugs); respecting the existence of version exclusives:
[Base Pokemon obtained before Viridian Forest]
Starter, starter's evo | Pidgey, Pidgeotto | Rattata, Raticate | Spearow, Fearow | Nidoran F, Nidorina | Nidoran M, Nidorino
[Viridian Forest]
Weedle, Kakuna, Beedrill | Caterpie, Metapod, Butterfree | Pikachu
[Aroung Mt. Moon]
Magikarp, Gyarados | Jigglypuff | Geodude, Graveler | Zubat, Golbat | Paras, Parasect | Clefairy
[Around Cerulean]
Oddish/Bellsprout, Gloom/Weepinbell | Abra, Kadabra | Sandshrew/Ekans, Sandslash/Arbok
[Around Vermillion]
Mankey/Meowth | Diglett, Dugtrio | Dwozee, Hypno | Farfetch'd
Furthermore, it's also possible that Blue found some Moon Stones at Mt. Moon (like other commenters here suggested).
If Blue is not bound by the "version exclusives" mechanics and can catch both Red and Blue Pokemon, things get even easier, since we can cross out 3 of the most far-fetched evolutions (like Golbat, Graveler, Parasect, Hypno, Gloom/Weepinbell). Notice Dugtrio can be caught in Diglett's cave, and having Gyarados at this point is not out of the question, if Blue bought a Magikarp at the Mt. Moon PokeCenter.
TL;DR Blue is not a fraud... he is just nuts about always zig-zaging every single location to make sure he caught all the species that live there (remember how later in the game he says he spend time in Lavender's Poke Tower to catch a Cubone, while also [hopelessly] searching for a Marowak - until he figured out no Marowak can be caught there); and he always trains everything to make it evolve at least once.
He's just very serious about his grandpa's endeavour of completing the Pokedex (and his own idea of dunking on Red ;) ).
I’ve always wondered what goes on at those wild S.S. Anne parties. 🫣
@@ArCgon Actually your calculations don't work as well when you rememeber the level 20 restriction. Golbat, Graveler, Parasect , Gloom, Weepinbell, Sandslash, Arbok, Dugtrio and Hypno all evolve after level 20. Farfetch'd is impossible to catch before SS Anne and he obviously didn't trade for it since player can still get that trade. Also we will rule out both Dugtrio and Alakazam, since we are running with the assumption that Blue would use the strongest pokemon available to him. Additionally let's just assume that Oak bought Blue all the necessary evolution stones because he sucks at buying presents.
That means that if Blue is obeying the exclusives restrictions he can only catch 38 pokemon (33 normally and 5 are stone evolutions). Now here's the thing, we know for a fact that Blue can get version exclusive mons because he always has Arcanine therefore he can catch 36 pokemon normally and with the 5 stone evolutions he barelly passes the mark at 41 pokemon caught by the time you meet him in SS Anne.
So yeah in the end Blue is still not a fraud and he even is corrent when he said that he caught "more than 40" pokemon. It just seems like all of his one time trades were version exclusives.
Blue isnt playing a game. He is living a life and isnt going to be roadblocked in the same way we are strickly for gameplay reasons. Maybe he is willing to swim for pokemon, maybe he knows of a trophy garden, maybe he made it through safron before it closes. We dont know.
That's exactly what I was thinking
Maybe he just hopped the fence and found a Tangela right by Pallet town.
"You can just 'level' your Pokémon, but me? I had to struggle." -Blue, probably
Yeah this video is literally just a way to make some money lmao, there's nothing here that even comes close to actually "proving" this.
Yeah I mean there’s no limitation on NPCs to have version exclusives either. The moon stone thing was silly because there’s nothing to say he didn’t find other moon stones in mt moon than the player.
Typing this before I watch your video: it has always been my belief that Blue was working with Team Rocket; so much circumstantial evidence points to this: the fact that he has over 40 different pokemon before the third gym (from theft), him showing up in the Lavender Tower as TR is attempting to kidnap Mr Fuji, him showing up in Silph Co despite Saffron City being on lockdown and a TR guard being stationed outside, and him being the quiet successor to the Viridian Gym after Giovanni stepped back into the shadows.
There are mechanics the rival has access to such as how pokemon can indeed evolve early by friendship (not to players but it has been seen in the games with things like his Raticate and other media) also he isn’t working with version exclusives and the restrictions of different fishing rods being needed to catch other pokemon so he probably has a lot of fishing mons. Also on top of all of that he probably found multiple moon stones because once again he isn't a player playing the game but is instead a person living in the game.
imagine if you faced him and had more than 40 mons alrdy and you get special dialogue for him
Yeah, droomish should have got the two trade pokemon to make it 41 and see if the rivals text changes
wondering that myself
@@furball192 it doesn’t, Prof. Oak challenges would’ve made that dialogue popular by now.
Guys, this is GameFreak we're talking about here. Got to keep those expectations in check.
(And yes I know they've included special dialogue with hidden/obscure requirements before, I'm only half joking)
@@alexcallendereven then, it's not game freak's fault. The Pokemon company and Nintendo are the ones that force them to rush out buggy messes. Look at the newest Pokemon and characters and stories; they are all pretty fantastic. The performance problems and glitches are pretty obviously due to the game being forcibly rushed.
In the anime I remember him having a car and getting more than 8 badges, so he simply has resources we don't. Quite a fitting metaphor in 2023 p2w games.
BLUE is not in the anime. GARY is. Gary may have been based on Blue, but he is NOT THE SAME PERSON.
To be fair in the anime they were originally planning on having more gyms
You know what would be funny if off-screen gary tried to go to the indigo league and got denied because the badges he had were not officially recognized to be part of their requirements. Meaning he had to go back and challenge more gyms but thar time the right ones.
Ash while normally not the smartest made sure to look up the right ones. Or brock and Misty made sure he stayed on track.
@@TheEmeraldWeirdo The only differences between Gary and Blue is their shirt.
@@TheEmeraldWeirdo And Chuck is not Blue.
The Rival probably overheard how moon stones work derping around in the museum in Pewter and immediately went to hoarding moon stones in Mt.Moon
In the fight at Pokémon Tower, he uses an Exeggcute (provided you didn't pick Squirtle), a Pokémon that can't be obtained until the Safari Zone, and at that point in the story, all paths to it would be blocked by Snorlax. He also starts using Growlithe at this battle (provided you didn't pick Bulbasaur), a version exclusive.
My real take away from all this, is that having 40 pokemon caught by the SS Anne is ACTUALLY realistically feasible in a normal-ish playthrough. Honestly I had no idea such a high number was actually possible
It's feasible, but not by the Rival, who only has 4 in his party. Dude is either hardcore sandbagging (which is highly unlikely, since he has no issue using 6 Pokemon later) or lying. I say he's lying.
@@dontcensormebro3217My guess is he fought so many trainers and his few pokemon fainted that's why he has only 4 🤔🤔
@@master_0f_gaming None of his 4 Pokemon that he uses show signs of weakness, status, or any other battle related issues. I doubt that 2 of his Pokemon are perfectly fainted, and all others are fully healed with no status conditions.
My only guess here is he's using what he wants to use and not what's strong. Which is kinda out of character for Blue but we're trying to explain how he has 40 pokemon by this point which I never knew was something hard. But I've always been a hardcore pokemon catcher.
@@fae_baobhan_cernunnos it is out of character... until you remember that the mechanics of the game dont aply to their world. things like badges allowing you to train pokemon to a certain level.
lets not forget the anime, ash's charizard refused to obey him, even after he had all gym badges. that is a mechanic that is there for us as players, but the lore in game shows that pokemon respect and love their trainers based on how they are treated.
so, its very possible that he did caught that many pokemon, but because he treated most of them like shit, they simply refused to obey him. which forced him to just ignore them as weaklings, or useless.
its the same reason why his starter is still at first stage, but at level 18 at the bridge. or why some pokemon can be fought or even caught at lower level than they can evolve at.
so i do think he did caught those 40 pokemons. its just that, he did not see them as usefull for one reason or another.
In terms of Gary/Blue always bringing their best to battle, I'll point out that in the anime and manga Gary/blue ridicules Ash/red for *always* using the same Pokémon. Gary/Blue isn't just walking everywhere, he's actually catching and raising dozens of Pokémon, not just 6. It's more likely the 6 he beats you with are just the ones he's training at the time + his starter. It's also more than feasible that he caught and has multiples of the same type and only uses his best one of the lot. For that matter it's shown that you can buy Pokémon, it's not out of the question that he procured some through other means.
He states before the Champion fight that he has been assembling teams that can beat any Pokémon type. A fair assessment is that he has always been doing it.
Between this and not being bound by version exclusivity, I can definitely imagine the rival having more than 40. Count some of the evolutions that are just after 20 but do not fit the team he fights the player with on the SS Anne, and, 40+ is an easy clear:
Oddish to Gloom
Bellsprout to Weepinbel
Ekans to Arbok
Sandshrew to Sandslash
Zubat to Golbat (do we include a walk getting for Golbat to Crobat for FRLG?)
Paras to Parasect might be a stretch at 24, but not crazy.
What there should have been in the game was some hidden but snarky acknowledgement of your efforts if you walked into the SS Anne fight with your Pokédex over 40.
this would also explain why he's on nugget bridge with an abra
No, if you max friendship on any pokemon that can evolve with that, and you try to make it evolve, it just doesnt, before you get the national dex. I tried it and it only showed the evolution screen getting interrumpted by itself
Yes, Blue is not us. Every seconds in their life are different, know different people and so on. So he will indeed receive items at different point in time, face different people that give or trade with him. Proving someone cant have something because you cant even work your ass off is not work even irl.
@@Sr.Anonimo-bk1uzSheesh, that is a the worst way to implement Pokédex restrictions.
At the same time though, that’s the kind of game mechanic like version exclusivity that can’t reasonably be applied to Blue when investigating his claim of catching 40 Pokémon…
But since he said the same thing in the gen 1 games, Pokémon that didn’t exist back then (like Crobat) still don’t count.
I think a large problem with this sort of argument is that it always comes back to believing that the Pokémon world operates on the game logic.
The fact that the anime is so drastically different especially in the earlier seasons shows there's a separation of gameplay and lore. Gameplay is just a simplified mechanic of who the story is told, whereas the real story operates differently.
Yes, there are episodes of the anime where they reference things from the game like the Pokémon Tech mentioning moves and levels, but in the reality of the Pokémon world this isn't actually the case. Like how some NPCs will mentioning saving your game as if it's a real in-world thing that happens, even though *we* the players know it's just a dialogue to teach us to save.
There's no real evidence that in the actual pokemon world (that is one not simplified by having game mechanics for the players, or by being child friendly in the case of the anime) movesets, evolution requirements, stats, IVs, really exist *in-world*.
Hell, if we consider the fact that we're supposed to treat all regions as always have existing in the Pokemon world, then Gary/Blue could easily have Johto pokemon already since the region is literally next door and it's not like people wouldn't know about those different pokemon in a place not so far away. Or have traded for pokemon from other regions. The gameplay and lore are two very different beasts, which is why arguments like this always fall flat on me.
Then again I'm the kind of person who almost always views gameplay and lore as two distinct entities that don't always go hand in hand.
1. It's possible that the rival went through Mt Moon first and found at least 4 Moon Stones, leaving you with 2.
2. Random NPCs might have offered him trades that you didn't have access to.
3. Snorlax had not yet blocked the route to the East.
4. He wasn't expecting to fight you, so didn't bring his best team because he was focused on evolving Pokemon.
5. He can evolve Pokemon earlier than you, and might not choose to use them because they're not great options. For instance, crowning the Nidos at 20 cuts them off at the knee, blocking them from learning new moves by leveling.
Blue could easily have gone far past where the player got to before barriers were put up. He may just ignore people asking for help instead of fighting rockets and doing odd jobs, and he may have had open saffron, cut from another source, no snorlax blocking the way etc. THEN gone back after receiving his invite. HIs lack of rocket battles and large time spent catching wild pokemon would explain the generally low levels
Except he's on the ship looking for cut. There's no chance he has it by that point.
@@dusklunistheumbreonat the same time, if he got an invite to a luxury cruise then who's to say he didn't have access to a thunder stone or something? It's unlikely that Bill had two tickets when he lives by himself.
@@dusklunistheumbreonhe is implying ghe guards begging for a drink weren't an issue and he kept walking. Cut wouldn't be needed if that was the case
Not to mention he mentions that he is looking for the supposed "cut master on board" but refers to him simply as a "sick old captain" implying he didn't actually get cut or he may have found a different way to get it (either earlier or later), he probably went there for the same reason he went to bill, to increase his dex sightings and/or possibly learn something.
My guess would be that (much like any player, it is implied that he backtracks to Vermilion upon hearing about the cut master, or he goes further out than the player has access to due to the game structure/mechanics catches a bunch of random things and then gets the info some other way.
I think a big flaw with his theorising is that he is treating it like Blue is a real person in a real world but applying game mechanics as strictly as possible, while also assuming all NPCs/Mechanics/Items/trades are precisely the same as the player character experience, which given his clear ability to get so ahead of the player from the start, known advantages of his societal position, drive to complete his goal to the detriment that he is later scolded for "forgetting to love and trust in his Pokémon" (something that strengthens the idea that he would be willing to trade away rather flippantly if he though it would be worth it, or complete his goal) and finally the fact that he has money meaning he may have access to far better equipment alot earlier than you.
Given that info, it is extremely easy to infer ways in which he would have OVER 40 which is his claim.
@@alanhughes3172 I don't know much about the remakes, but in the original Gen 1 games my understading always was that the rival met the Captain and indeed got HM01 from him... the fact that the Captain was sea-sick is a side note of the rival's bragging. Excact quote:
"I heard there was a CUT master on board. But, he was just a seasick, old man! But, CUT itself is really useful! You should go see him!"
Actuality this is brilliance by game design, so through normal play you will max at 39 pokemon and the roval has 40
unless you traded for mr.mime and farfetchd
@@sheeplol2161 or trained a few past lv20
@@PixelOverload Or traded Kadabra for Alakazam
@@sheeplol2161But if you don't count the two other Moonstone Evolutions, it's still 39 in a single cartridge.
I'm almost certain it's an accident, honestly, but to me that would be maybe even cooler, honestly
It would be 37 because the moon stones
Maybe he got scammed, left Magikarp in the daycare during the boat rival fight, and picked him up later. Another thing to note is that blue doesn’t know what level his pokemon are. To him those are creatures. He just picked the strongest looking ones
As others have already mentioned some possibilities, there are five other possibilities:
1) Your rival was able to get some pokemon from the Game Corner. As he's frequently ahead of you, it's entirely possible that he's blitzing through areas that you aren't.
2) The trades that are offered in game are the ones he doesn't take, meaning he might've been trading for pokemon you can't because he's already done the trade you would have access to.
3) He's counting Pokemon seen, not caught.
4) Game Freak intended there to be a lot more varieties of pokemon catchable by that point.
5) Game Freak intentionally gave him a high count to prompt you to go back and search for and/or level up previous pokemon to try and see how he got to that number.
As a kid I always assumed "Gary" had access to trade opportunities I did not have. I never believed he was a hard worker, so my gut told me he used his name & connection to Prof Oak to get trades which we can not even imagine. Like you said in the rules, you only get the one trade (excluding fish sales) so we would not be offered or informed of a trade which "Gary" had already conducted.
Or more cynically I really assumed he was just buying them off of team rocket. Kind of a trade, but just with cash.
that last part.... is... actually something that's kind of a real thing TBH, and in GS he takes over Giovanni's place in Kanto... so... there IS some level of truth to it.
@@marhawkman303 I mean we kind of do so to through the game corner, so we're not without fault either 😅
Honestly ive always figured when he has spare slots, its because he has pokemon there, but theyre already knocked out by attrition. He always bumps into you by happenstance.
Or, he deposits them into the PC. After all: the PC is free for everyone to use
@@MegaPokefan97 yeah but hes not the type to leave pokemon in the pc and have open party slots.
@@tefnutofhoney2832 What if he wants an open slot to be able to use the next good one he finds?
@@InfernosReaper this also works
The intended method of obtaining version-locked pokemon is trading. At any point you are able to collect a version-exclusive, the version you do not have has access to their own version-exclusive with no further game progress. The rival is not version locked and can include all those to his total without breaking the rules. And this is not out of the player’s ability because trading was the dev intended method of acquisition
I think rival caught magic carp in vermilion right before SS Anne.
And like us left it at daycare when going onto boat.
He may be counting the Gyarados already
I haven't finished the video yet, but I will say it isn't completely unthinkable that Blue has managed to trade for Pokemon or similarly benefited from one-time deals. This is because he's generally slightly ahead of you and so he could have run into one-time offers that you did not.
That the available in-game trades tend to be rather trash lends credence to this theory. The low-hanging fruit may have already been taken...
Or the lv caped 20 he assumptions is wrong. He probably have higher pokemon in his pc
people also forget he literally has an alakazam. that basically confirms he is doing some trading off screen
Version exclusives. You don’t have access to them, but they are still on the region catchable for other trainers
Correct me if im wrong but isnt Onix also available early, and isnt there a thunderstone in the power plant in electric gym area?
Wild. I could swear there was a Venonat on route 25, but looking through the database, that's only for Pokémon Yellow version... But additional version exclusives should defnitely push him a little bit above the 40 marker. We can even push Dugtrio out of there and still have 40 unique pokémon then.
Tho tbh, maybe the dialogue just has him rounding up his numbers to rough estimates rather than exact numbers. Can you imagine him fishing his pokédex out of his pocket just to tell you exactly how many kinds of pokémon he caught?
I remember when this statement of Gary's first caught my eye. I went back and started over and worked until my starter evolved, evolved the ones you didn't like Zubat and Paras, but in the end I had like 43 pokemon when I met him and his statement was hilarious.
Ways Rival could have more Pokemon:
* Rival is not put off by trees and can walk through forests / around cuttable objects that Red is not comfortable with going past he talks about "crawling around" in grassy areas something we never see Red do, but which might get him past various trees that block certain paths.
* Rival is finding version exclusives because he's looking harder... as mentioned, Red never crawls around in the grass... he walks. If Blue is crawling he might discover some that Red never saw without getting down on his hands and knees.
* Rival is overconfident ---> he doesn't carry or even keep the highest level Pokemon he has, preferring instead to send them to Professor Oak for further study and to keep his favourites and the bare minimum needed to guarantee success in an area. He's not really putting effort into training pokemon at all, and might be ignoring the levels completely.
* Rival is assisted in catching, trading and evolving pokemon by his Grandfather Professor Oak. Possibly meaning that when he gets to a town Oak tells him about a local from whom he can attain a rare evolution stone or someone who can lend him a Pokemon that can fly or someone from whom he can gain a Good Rod or perform a trade.
* Rival is faster than you and gets to places before they become blockaded to Red. E.g. Snorlaxes might not be in the way, Celadon city might not be blocked off. It seems clear that Rival got onto the SS Anne via a different route than Red (as Red seemed to get it by helping Bill, which only happens once) so he's clearly either got some good connections that might get him into hard to reach areas or he's just having a similar but different adventure so may have been exposed to different regions / types of Pokemon than Red at this point.
In other words, Blue had been to Safari Zone before Red makes it to S.S. Anne 😂
Pretty confident the rules of the game world that bind you aren't hard fast rules of the world as a whole. Blue is likely trading and discovering Pokemon in different locations than the player is. The rules of a limited scope of reference do not shackle the other.
I love when content creaters use the bomberman music, so satisfying and nostalgic
Well, Blue/Chuck does have an Alakazam by the end of the game. Perhaps, *perhaps,* he traded a bunch of Ratattas for Pokémon that appear later in the region. So cheating but not cheating. Let’s not rule that out. If Wonder/Surprise Trade were a thing back in the day, he’d totally be the type to just keep trading Ratatta and end up with a Gengar.
I may have done this before.
Bill being fused with a Pokémon in a teleporter accident is 100% a reference to the movie "The Fly" starring Jeff Goldblum
Trades don’t make sense to ignore. The rival is ahead of you, so saying ‘if I’m getting that Pokémon, no one else is’ doesn’t make sense.
He is ahead so it’s perfectly possible he received Pokémon from some NPCs and then when you interact with them they say their usual lines, cos they don’t have anything left to trade.
Esp. as you say 40 Pokémon caught in Pokédex.
Also, rival says bill added pages to his Pokédex. And he had a very different encounter with bill than you do of course. So there’s many things that happen that rival would get there first and encounter and thus not leave them for you, right?
I've never really thought about it before, but perhaps its possible he is counting his "pokemon seen" as entries in the pokedex instead of the ones caught. That seems much more viable as you disqualified 6 or so pokemon and you had 48 seen. which will land you somewhere around the 40 number.
Especially when he flat-out says that the three Eeveelutions he sees from Bill added 'a lot' to his Pokédex. Blue's definition of 'caught' is not the same as ours.
@@Meteorite_Shower professors count "caught" pokemons as synonymous with pokemon registered in the pokedex when it comes to rewards so its more likely a translation issue then anything
good point.@@kavinh10
or he just caught a few of each pokemon
@@Dirtymvm Wrong. It's 40 different pokemon.
I love his claim that he has 40 because as you basically pointed out with this video it’s extremely unlikely the player has that many, but it’s pretty close if you’ve been catching everything you see. so it establishes him as a rival in a sort of meta way - despite your best efforts, he somehow has more Pokémon than you
I agree... I think the quote was put there to motivate the player to keep completing the Pokedex. 99% of players would have less that 40 and most would feel a need to get their number higher in case the accursed rival will say 60 or 80 the next time you see him🤣 .
What I love about the 40 number is that it looks like the devs indeed took some time to count how many species it is possible for the player to own at that point, instead of just a random number.
@@ArCgon That's why Blue worked so well as a rival, and outshines almost every rival to follow. His attitude and implied superiority encouraged the player to want to be better than him. Nowadays rivals are so buddy-buddy, I find it impossible to care whether or not I'm better than them because they give me no incentive to push myself as their rival.
Think it's also understood that the the game logic is supposed to represent something more believable. Like, no one in their right mind believes that if Pokemon were real, battles with them would be turn-based. Reason this is important is that your rival isn't playing your game. He's living his own life. And doing it better than you so he can rub your face in it.
@@skycastrum5803 A friend's mom was confused by that, once. She was playing a completely different RPG, and needed to actually have it explained to her that the characters aren't actually taking turns, and that the turns are strictly tied to the gameplay. Because she genuinely didn't understand why her characters and the monsters were taking turns.
Then again, she never was in her right mind.
@@gurvmlk Several comedy RPGs mock their own turn-based combat, and lampshade it with commentary on how polite or nice the enemies are, and they are, to make sure everyone gets to take their turn.
The two options are either that from a developer standpoint, they put that dialogue in there to show close to or exactly the max number of pokemon legitimately obtainable at that point
or #2: Blue isn’t limited by version exclusive pokemon (most likely answer) he also could’ve explored other areas of grass that Red hasn’t been to yet. Seeing as how he always seems to be leaving while Red is just arriving, this could be possible as well
“Just catch more!” He says, holding up 10 gym badges.
I don’t even know if that was intentional, but it’s beautiful either way
with the level 20 limit, I half wonder if something in regards to "he wouldn't use a pokemon if it wasn't his highest level" and I thought of parasect, and it's possible he may have gotten a parasect but deemed it too weak to use, and wonder how many pokemon he would have just disregarded for being weak. Also I think he would have traded some pokemon ahead of time
Agreed. Especially something like Gloom makes no sense. Level 21, but incredibly weak, I wouldn't bring it just because the number is 1 higher than my starter. It's still weak thanks to bad moves and bad stats.
I would agree with you if it weren’t for the fact that Blue has 2 empty slots in his team when you battle him at that point. Blue is a try hard and while I fully believe he’d leave magikarp at the daycare for a garydos later, there’s no way he’d leave a parasect or gloom as they’re far better than nothing. Heck he’s willing to have an Abra that only knows teleport on his team over the spot being empty
@@Nervonous Yeah the only argument that I could see against that is overlapping types for team composition.
I'm not sure why we take level 20 evolutions as a cutoff point when the rival has an underleveled Raticate in that very fight
i think the level caps make somewhat sense as it would cost him a bunch of time to level every single one of his pokemon and because he is only moving slightly faster than us, he might not have time to grind. I would say tho he could have traded a bunch so we dont get to trade them. Realistically a lot of people might want to trade
In addition to what other comments here are saying, you also have to consider that narratively he's always ahead of you, so he could have traded Pokémon with people you as the player never got a chance to talk to or get trade offers from because he had already traded with them first. All in all there's plenty of reasons/ways Blue could have registered 40 unique species of Pokémon in his dex. You just have to account for both his "way ahead of you" advantage and disconnects between gameplay and story.
In the original Kanto games, in Pokémon Red, Venonat can be caught, below level 10, north of Cerulean City.
The rival has access to version exclusives as that was added to the games as a way to encourage trading by players.
The rival can definitely have 40 different kinds of pokémon.
the rival could go to celedon city get some prizes in the game corner then go to the ss and then the thirsty guards close the city.
i would add trade pokemon for one trivia reason, in the anime, the SS ANNE was a special meeting for trading, it would make sense if the rival made some trades for himself there, even maybe some starters for himself, but probably boxed by his mentality of "these will fill the dex, but i didnt catch and train them myself, so i will stick to my strongests catch and trained pokemon"
... wat? xD
This is a very strange video. I think the answer is "the game barely has a story and characters, and the devs didn't even think about it".
Or alternatively, "it's highly unlikely that people can only get around the world using Cut, or maybe he just found a Surf HM somewhere".
Fun video, although when I was younger playing, I always imagined your rival was just richer and more access to things. Or to put it another way, the reason you're limited is because it's your story and your rival doesn't have to play YOUR rules all the time. That's what made it so satisfying to beat him.
Gary as the main anime version of Blue gives credit to this since he had some how found 3 extra gyms, by the fact he had 10 badges before challenging Giovani in Veridian which would have brought his total up to 11 badges had he won.
@@truekurayami 4 more gyms. He never found Blaine's gym.
@@frantisekvrana3902yeah
@@frantisekvrana3902 In some way, I'm surprised that Gary wasn't at least *slightly* impressed or mildly irritated that Ash had the Volcano Badge, seeing as he never found the Cinnabar Island Gym. It'd have been rather in character if he said "Wait....Where'd you get that badge?!" before brushing it off and saying "....Not that it matters, I guess! I've still got more badges than you!"
@@19TheFallen Yeah, that's a thing in the anime that was.... strange, and the idea that the gyms we saw in red/blue aren't even all the gyms in Kanto.... well.. there's an unofficial 9th Gym in Kanto.... so there is some merit to the idea. Also, an odd wording choice. The admission desk at Indigo plateau... doesn't care about WHICH badges you have, only the NUMBER. Why? You, the player, can only get 8. But the desk is just asking how many you have. It makes it feel like there were options, just not options you the player could pursue.
Another thing is how a lot of gyms have some puzzle you need to solve to gain access. It makes you wonder if... the idea is that there WERE others, that you simply couldn't gain access to? Like, did your rival actually face Blaine, or Sabrina? Special credit goes to Giovanni, we know your rival beat him, but not in a GYM battle. Did he even get a badge from Giovanni?