I mean, didn't RTD write jack hanging onto the TARDIS? Why would he have sutech holding onto the TARDIS since all the way back to Tom Baker. I want to like this episode but... The best word I've seen used numerous times with creators and fans alike, and that word is "underwhelming" normally i love RTD but what the heck was this?
I thought the Prime Minister line was more of a dig at the Tory government than a reference to The Master. Also I thought Morris’ “don’t worry, we’ll get him soon” line was referring to Elon Musk.
I'm hoping that ruby's mum has actually been given a second chance by the trickster, and is the perfect trap.. maybe shed originally died at 15 and it was the trickster that dropped ruby off, but once Sutekh failed he then changed time by bringing her mum back like he does in the Sarah jane adventures - could explain why the doctors memory of it hanged and it fits with how the trickster works. Also on the official doctor who FB, they put an image of some of the gods, and the trickster was below Sutekh but above the toymaker, perhaps a hierarchy?
- Why didn't they just go to 2046 right at the start of the series? - Why did it actually snow? - Why bother pointing at the sign? Nuns didn't see her so no one would know she was naming her - What happened to Sutekh when the TARDIS was split? - What happened to the memory TARDIS? - 14 and Donna must have been turned to dust, wonder what he thought of that lol - Sutekh was mystified by this random woman even though he could see ALL of time and space. Why couldn't he see 2046 when the mum took the DNA test? Surely he could find out who she was It was all very meh tbh We NEED a Susan cameo this era, surely!
and "meh" is such a nice way of putting it. it was fucking diabolical. They clearly didn't have enough time to tell the whole story. they shouldn't of commited to so many weird things. Why is mrs flood going to take gods kingdom, who is she to do that? she comes across as good but then says something evil as shit like that? Cant be clara before ppl try to pin the "clever boy" reference on her. Clara can not age, clara wouldn't threaten to seize the kingdom of god. Its such a cop out it answered nothing. What was the point of the woman with the dead baby just to get a spoon. its all over the place
Honestly this show has had its criticism. I personally don't give a fk if the doctor is black, orange purple, Gay, bi, straight. Hell i wouldn't give a shit if the doctor sprouted 20 heads each with their own "gender". What i DO care about is shoddy writing. As an actual FAN of the show i feel fking betrayed? This season has been all over the place and it seemed like it had purpose but the finale was so underwhelming. I honestly would like to hear what RTD take on this is and have him answer Q&A from DW Content creators who listen to their fan base so the vital questions can be asked.
I'd love to see something like this too if I am honest.. I do really hope season 2 is better since they do have Ncuti for all of recording time they need so I have my fingers crossed the season will just be better, makes me nervous knowing they have filmed it all before they even got the chance to make changes based on the criticism of this season...
Rubys mum being just some normal knocked up 15 year old was the dumbest twist ever, thats such a common(and unfortunate) situation nowadays so what made ruby so special, she could have had a much cooler story
I really don't believe that Sutekh has been with the Doctor since Pyramids of Mars. I don't think it was ever solidly said that that was the case in the episode so I'm choosing to believe one of my two head canons. 1) Sutekh was released from his trap in the time tunnel durinf Flux when time was running wild before the Mori were restored on Atripos and 2) he's been with the Doctor since Wild Blue Yonder, as that's when Susan Triad first appeared.
Apparently Donna spilling coffee on the console woke him up, but if that was all it took to wake him up, then WHY DIDN’T HE WAKE UP WHEN THE TARDIS LITERALLY EXPLODED AND BECAME A SUN?!? My headcannon is that he grabbed onto the TARDIS in pyramids of mars, but then fell off it when he went to sleep, then caught onto it again in Flux when the universe was getting erased. And therefore woke up when Donna exploded the TARDIS with her coffee.
I loved both of these episodes! I'm so glad that Ruby and her mom were both normal people, subverting expectations. But, I really wish they explained why she makes it snow, and why Maestro said she wasn't normal
Ruby having a normal mother would have been fine if RTD hadn’t hyped it up to the sun with clues and hints that ended up not needing to be there in the first place.
I’ve tried to enjoy this season but the last episode for me has let it down. It didn’t feel like a great ending. However I wonder if Ruby’s dad is someone for the next season.
Part two lost me at needing the spoon - Sorry. I’d like to propose that using Ruby’s TARDIS key would have been a better choice. An actual physical metal part of the real TARDIS being just enough to give the memory TARDIS the boost it needed.
27:42 The snow is explained at eight minutes thirty of LORS: “It was snowing the night Ruby was born and it keeps snowing…. Which means that night is so raw and so open.” I think the idea is that the fabric of spacetime is damaged and delicate, allowing the snow to leak through. Something like that. Which is why the Doctor absolutely cannot return again.
Then why did it only happen when the doctor was around? Theoretically it should have snowed in 73 yards at least once in her life. And i bet it’ll never snow again even though the memory will always be raw and open.
I remember during the Moffet era when fans would complain online about him and pine for the RTD days. I want to ask those people "Still feel that way"? 😜
Thank you for pointing out all the mysteries and the lack of payoff... And not just mysteries, but also the other little things like how the doctor changed the future of the word gravity to "mavity". Ok so what? The new doctor said it once in episode 1. And then they did nothing with it. Because there is honestly nothing they can do with it.
How come the older ruby in 73 yards never found her birth mother? If the dna testing in 2046 is compulsory, why did ruby never find her in that episode?
@@olb3587 nope, different dimension type thing going on. Basically Ruby, Sutekh, or the Tardis may have erased that timeline not before warning the new timeline.
In the alternate timeline of 73yards Ruby defeated ap Gwillim and therefore there wouldn't have been compulsory DNA testing. Now they are in the ' real' timeline.
The Doctor mentioned that they needed real metal, not a memory of metal. Everything in the Memory tardis was a memory, not the real deal. The memory was strong enough that they could travel in a limited fashion, but it was not a real Tardis. That is why he got the spoon. That being said, there was metal on their clothing. Zippers, fasteners, underwire from a bra, etc. I mean the clothing they got on board the Memory Tardis, clothing that was not a memory but real. There was no need for a spoon. I am 100% sure that some dangling plot threads from this season are seeds that will germinate and blossom in upcoming seasons. Maybe we will meet the spoon lady again. Maybe we will see the Space Babies all grown up. The Tardis still has to revisit Ruby Road (unless Sutekh popping in was the second visit and that mystery is already solved). Where is Rogue? What happened to the selfish kids in "Dot and Bubble", and what was the point of those monsters eating everyone? One theme throughout this season is children without parents. Ruby and Susan being separated from their parents/family, the space babies being apart from their parents, the Maestro complaining that her (their?) father was banished and gone, the motherless child losing her soldier father, Ruby again losing all sets of parents, and so on. I am sure we will resolve the whole Susan storyline eventually in upcoming seasons.
Why is nobody talking about the vlinx in this fandom? I had little more than passing thoughts about it (them?) until empire of death, but when the dust actually killed it I began to wonder if there's something either organic or at the very least sentient inside there... I don't think any other technology was affected so it stands to reason that the vlinx is at least partly alive, and now I can't stop thinking about it. Does anyone have any thoughts or answers? Did I miss something?
I think the Christmas special will give us an alternate ending. Ruby creates fiction around her (like Bridgerton) (and like the physical Ruby in Alex Kingstons book). She created her own happy ending. Moms normal. Happy life. The split happens when the ceiling is cracking again in the snow. How does Ruby come back in 73 yards? Maestro says she is very wrong. Sutekh says there is a secret greater than the doctor hidden in her. I still think the Christmas story will be THE Christmas story and Ruby will sacrifice herself to save the universe.
The Legend of Ruby Sunday was a 10/10 set-up, and played amazingly in the cinema. I enjoyed Empire of Death, and it had some great moments, but I think it's RTD's worst finale yet. That being said, the season as a whole has been so good that it's still one of my favourite seasons of NewWho My main issue was the lack of payoff for Ruby's mother, the "bring death to death" resolution (didn't make sense to me), and the lack of sacrifice for the resolution when compared to his previous finales. I think any number of fan theories would've worked better for all of this: he could've been forced to mske a deal with the Trickster to undo Sutekh's manifestation; he couldve trapped Sutekh around a black hole, setting up the Beast in the Satan Pit; or Ruby's mother could've been a new character with an unpredictable resolution for Sutekh.
My problem with the finale is the problem ive had wiith most this series, the pacing is off they need more time like there were no 2 parters apart the finale, every episode could be extra 10-20 mins, also if ruby mum is human wtf is she doihg in a cloak
RTD built up this series with so many lies. He writes words like diarrhea with ideas that have no truth or credibility just to titilate the fans. There are so many contrivances and plot holes that other TH-camrs will list but he has such a big ego that he thinks he is beyond criticism. He built up Sutekh to be an omnipotent titan of evil and then mocks him as a doggy on a lead. I don't think I can compare such atrocious writing to anything I have ever seen in my life. By the way when Shooty duplicated the Tardis with his 'looney tunes' mallet, are there now two Sutekhs? Actually I don't care because I'm not interested in the second series which has already wrapped, incredibly before getting any feedback. Hopefully the BBC will wipe those tapes like they did with many original episodes, so we don't have to suffer any more excrement like this.
@@Thedarkknight27474Please don’t try to defend this episode by attacking people be a respectful fan and have a normal conversation if you can don’t make the rest of us look bad.
I was a little disappointed with the ending, great work up - everything's resolved so quickly with a neat lil' bow. I would have thought Sutekh would put up more of a fight, at least linger about causing trouble more - like the master, being a god of death and all. - I like the new doctor, he's very handsome - my only beef is, I've seen him cry in I think nearly every episode. I always thought the doctor, would be slightly more... composed, not so easily brought to tears in the face of a life or death situation, even if everything seemed hopeless. I get his personality gets a reboot as of sorts when he regenerates - maybe I just need to get used to him
![WHO IS THE WOMAN?! [DOCTOR WHO'S BIGGEST MYSTERY UNCOVERED… SUSAN TWIST.]](/img/n.gif)
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THIS 2 PARTER FOR A FINALE?
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Idk dude this was a mess. Ruby never once listened to the doctor even at the end she just bailed on him.
When I saw sutehk on the Tardis all I could think of was Jack also hanging on, sutehk being like “you’re gunna be a problem, aren’t you?”
This would mean jack was holding onto Sutekh instead of the Tardis also.. I don't think this was thought through so we'll..
I mean, didn't RTD write jack hanging onto the TARDIS? Why would he have sutech holding onto the TARDIS since all the way back to Tom Baker. I want to like this episode but... The best word I've seen used numerous times with creators and fans alike, and that word is "underwhelming" normally i love RTD but what the heck was this?
I thought the Prime Minister line was more of a dig at the Tory government than a reference to The Master. Also I thought Morris’ “don’t worry, we’ll get him soon” line was referring to Elon Musk.
I'm hoping that ruby's mum has actually been given a second chance by the trickster, and is the perfect trap.. maybe shed originally died at 15 and it was the trickster that dropped ruby off, but once Sutekh failed he then changed time by bringing her mum back like he does in the Sarah jane adventures - could explain why the doctors memory of it hanged and it fits with how the trickster works. Also on the official doctor who FB, they put an image of some of the gods, and the trickster was below Sutekh but above the toymaker, perhaps a hierarchy?
- Why didn't they just go to 2046 right at the start of the series?
- Why did it actually snow?
- Why bother pointing at the sign? Nuns didn't see her so no one would know she was naming her
- What happened to Sutekh when the TARDIS was split?
- What happened to the memory TARDIS?
- 14 and Donna must have been turned to dust, wonder what he thought of that lol
- Sutekh was mystified by this random woman even though he could see ALL of time and space. Why couldn't he see 2046 when the mum took the DNA test? Surely he could find out who she was
It was all very meh tbh
We NEED a Susan cameo this era, surely!
also the tardis has literally EXPLODED before
and "meh" is such a nice way of putting it. it was fucking diabolical. They clearly didn't have enough time to tell the whole story. they shouldn't of commited to so many weird things. Why is mrs flood going to take gods kingdom, who is she to do that? she comes across as good but then says something evil as shit like that? Cant be clara before ppl try to pin the "clever boy" reference on her. Clara can not age, clara wouldn't threaten to seize the kingdom of god. Its such a cop out it answered nothing. What was the point of the woman with the dead baby just to get a spoon. its all over the place
The fact that even the Dr Who twitter page was mocking people for wanting answers to certain questions is also a very bad look
Honestly this show has had its criticism. I personally don't give a fk if the doctor is black, orange purple, Gay, bi, straight. Hell i wouldn't give a shit if the doctor sprouted 20 heads each with their own "gender". What i DO care about is shoddy writing. As an actual FAN of the show i feel fking betrayed? This season has been all over the place and it seemed like it had purpose but the finale was so underwhelming. I honestly would like to hear what RTD take on this is and have him answer Q&A from DW Content creators who listen to their fan base so the vital questions can be asked.
I'd love to see something like this too if I am honest.. I do really hope season 2 is better since they do have Ncuti for all of recording time they need so I have my fingers crossed the season will just be better, makes me nervous knowing they have filmed it all before they even got the chance to make changes based on the criticism of this season...
As a fairly new fan who stopped watching after tennant, i have enjoyed this series more than any doctor who ive watched before
The Finale sucked bigvtime😢
Rubys mum being just some normal knocked up 15 year old was the dumbest twist ever, thats such a common(and unfortunate) situation nowadays so what made ruby so special, she could have had a much cooler story
Hopefully Christmas special is an alternate ending. I think Ruby can create fiction around her and created her own happy ending but it’s not real.
“She’s special because we want her to be” 🙄🙄🙄
Someone please tell me why a god couldn't break a bungie cord!?
The rope was “intelligent”
I really don't believe that Sutekh has been with the Doctor since Pyramids of Mars. I don't think it was ever solidly said that that was the case in the episode so I'm choosing to believe one of my two head canons. 1) Sutekh was released from his trap in the time tunnel durinf Flux when time was running wild before the Mori were restored on Atripos and 2) he's been with the Doctor since Wild Blue Yonder, as that's when Susan Triad first appeared.
That and the fact that the TARDIS herself would surely have mentioned it in The Doctor's Wife.
Apparently Donna spilling coffee on the console woke him up, but if that was all it took to wake him up, then WHY DIDN’T HE WAKE UP WHEN THE TARDIS LITERALLY EXPLODED AND BECAME A SUN?!? My headcannon is that he grabbed onto the TARDIS in pyramids of mars, but then fell off it when he went to sleep, then caught onto it again in Flux when the universe was getting erased. And therefore woke up when Donna exploded the TARDIS with her coffee.
I loved both of these episodes!
I'm so glad that Ruby and her mom were both normal people, subverting expectations. But, I really wish they explained why she makes it snow, and why Maestro said she wasn't normal
It was an idea apparently. The Tardis and Sutekh got trapped in Ruby’s mystery wanting to see the end, kind of thing. Not the best writing imo.
Ruby having a normal mother would have been fine if RTD hadn’t hyped it up to the sun with clues and hints that ended up not needing to be there in the first place.
I’ve tried to enjoy this season but the last episode for me has let it down. It didn’t feel like a great ending. However I wonder if Ruby’s dad is someone for the next season.
Part two lost me at needing the spoon - Sorry. I’d like to propose that using Ruby’s TARDIS key would have been a better choice. An actual physical metal part of the real TARDIS being just enough to give the memory TARDIS the boost it needed.
I would have liked that better too.
27:42 The snow is explained at eight minutes thirty of LORS: “It was snowing the night Ruby was born and it keeps snowing…. Which means that night is so raw and so open.”
I think the idea is that the fabric of spacetime is damaged and delicate, allowing the snow to leak through.
Something like that.
Which is why the Doctor absolutely cannot return again.
Then why did it only happen when the doctor was around? Theoretically it should have snowed in 73 yards at least once in her life. And i bet it’ll never snow again even though the memory will always be raw and open.
@ That is an excellent question. I’m hoping there is more to this that is still to be paid off.
@@gedbyrne8482 same
But why does it snow?! I think we will see Ruby again.
I remember during the Moffet era when fans would complain online about him and pine for the RTD days. I want to ask those people "Still feel that way"? 😜
Sadly I was one. Now I just loathe the man and want the next series to be wiped like all those classic episodes, never to be seen again.
@@stevkyt2374 Who do you loathe? RTD or Moffet? Or both?
That was me, now i want moffat writing the opening episode, and the finale.
Basically repeating Davros plan to destroy all life from "Journey's End".
Thank you for pointing out all the mysteries and the lack of payoff...
And not just mysteries, but also the other little things like how the doctor changed the future of the word gravity to "mavity". Ok so what? The new doctor said it once in episode 1. And then they did nothing with it. Because there is honestly nothing they can do with it.
How come the older ruby in 73 yards never found her birth mother? If the dna testing in 2046 is compulsory, why did ruby never find her in that episode?
I'd imagine he ran away before that policy, but it probably wouldn't have been a publicly available service anyway
@@olb3587 nope, different dimension type thing going on. Basically Ruby, Sutekh, or the Tardis may have erased that timeline not before warning the new timeline.
In the alternate timeline of 73yards Ruby defeated ap Gwillim and therefore there wouldn't have been compulsory DNA testing. Now they are in the ' real' timeline.
ngl I think "except the obvious" was just a random dig at Elon Musk
The Doctor mentioned that they needed real metal, not a memory of metal. Everything in the Memory tardis was a memory, not the real deal. The memory was strong enough that they could travel in a limited fashion, but it was not a real Tardis. That is why he got the spoon.
That being said, there was metal on their clothing. Zippers, fasteners, underwire from a bra, etc. I mean the clothing they got on board the Memory Tardis, clothing that was not a memory but real. There was no need for a spoon.
I am 100% sure that some dangling plot threads from this season are seeds that will germinate and blossom in upcoming seasons. Maybe we will meet the spoon lady again. Maybe we will see the Space Babies all grown up. The Tardis still has to revisit Ruby Road (unless Sutekh popping in was the second visit and that mystery is already solved). Where is Rogue? What happened to the selfish kids in "Dot and Bubble", and what was the point of those monsters eating everyone?
One theme throughout this season is children without parents. Ruby and Susan being separated from their parents/family, the space babies being apart from their parents, the Maestro complaining that her (their?) father was banished and gone, the motherless child losing her soldier father, Ruby again losing all sets of parents, and so on. I am sure we will resolve the whole Susan storyline eventually in upcoming seasons.
I'm hoping it'll be at least part of the Christmas special... that's probably the best time for it too
Why is nobody talking about the vlinx in this fandom? I had little more than passing thoughts about it (them?) until empire of death, but when the dust actually killed it I began to wonder if there's something either organic or at the very least sentient inside there... I don't think any other technology was affected so it stands to reason that the vlinx is at least partly alive, and now I can't stop thinking about it. Does anyone have any thoughts or answers? Did I miss something?
You mean the Vashta Nerada ?
@@salsaman nahhh, can't be... those little buggers leave bones lol
My hamster is more scary than Sutekh. My dog is also more intelligent than this one.
Defeated with a spoon handle, a whistle and a bit of rope. This is supposed to be comedy show now, right ?
I think the Christmas special will give us an alternate ending. Ruby creates fiction around her (like Bridgerton) (and like the physical Ruby in Alex Kingstons book). She created her own happy ending. Moms normal. Happy life. The split happens when the ceiling is cracking again in the snow. How does Ruby come back in 73 yards? Maestro says she is very wrong. Sutekh says there is a secret greater than the doctor hidden in her. I still think the Christmas story will be THE Christmas story and Ruby will sacrifice herself to save the universe.
No because she has already been seen filming for the next season that they have already finished lol
She’s out three episodes after Christmas. If she’s a Christlike figure sounds about the right amount of time for her to come back from the dead
The Legend of Ruby Sunday was a 10/10 set-up, and played amazingly in the cinema. I enjoyed Empire of Death, and it had some great moments, but I think it's RTD's worst finale yet. That being said, the season as a whole has been so good that it's still one of my favourite seasons of NewWho
My main issue was the lack of payoff for Ruby's mother, the "bring death to death" resolution (didn't make sense to me), and the lack of sacrifice for the resolution when compared to his previous finales. I think any number of fan theories would've worked better for all of this: he could've been forced to mske a deal with the Trickster to undo Sutekh's manifestation; he couldve trapped Sutekh around a black hole, setting up the Beast in the Satan Pit; or Ruby's mother could've been a new character with an unpredictable resolution for Sutekh.
I love that satin pit fan theory! Now i really wish that happened!
Maybe Ruby's father is *not human* since all we have is his name and Ruby is coming back next season. The snow mystery bugs me.
My problem with the finale is the problem ive had wiith most this series, the pacing is off they need more time like there were no 2 parters apart the finale, every episode could be extra 10-20 mins, also if ruby mum is human wtf is she doihg in a cloak
She must have been a cosplayer in her teens lol you know full well half of this fandom owns cloaks 😂
@@EasternStandardTim lol if they included that would of made the whole episode better
RTD built up this series with so many lies. He writes words like diarrhea with ideas that have no truth or credibility just to titilate the fans. There are so many contrivances and plot holes that other TH-camrs will list but he has such a big ego that he thinks he is beyond criticism. He built up Sutekh to be an omnipotent titan of evil and then mocks him as a doggy on a lead. I don't think I can compare such atrocious writing to anything I have ever seen in my life.
By the way when Shooty duplicated the Tardis with his 'looney tunes' mallet, are there now two Sutekhs? Actually I don't care because I'm not interested in the second series which has already wrapped, incredibly before getting any feedback. Hopefully the BBC will wipe those tapes like they did with many original episodes, so we don't have to suffer any more excrement like this.
Ncuti, not shooty
Ruby's story ended..... TERRIBLY
I enjoyed the episode. Sure I've seen better. .but I enjoyed it
disappointing finale here's hoping Mrs Flood is The Rani.(Rain) if there still doing words mixed up..after this episode i have doubts
I guess I’m one of the only people who really enjoyed this episode, 10/10 or 9.7/10
it was fucking awful
@@brettrigby2226it wasn’t you baby
Yep. Just you
@@Thedarkknight27474Please don’t try to defend this episode by attacking people be a respectful fan and have a normal conversation if you can don’t make the rest of us look bad.
@@jdgjagerbomber9430 sorry I’m just always protective and plus I’m autistic
I was a little disappointed with the ending, great work up - everything's resolved so quickly with a neat lil' bow. I would have thought Sutekh would put up more of a fight, at least linger about causing trouble more - like the master, being a god of death and all.
- I like the new doctor, he's very handsome - my only beef is, I've seen him cry in I think nearly every episode.
I always thought the doctor, would be slightly more... composed, not so easily brought to tears in the face of a life or death situation, even if everything seemed hopeless.
I get his personality gets a reboot as of sorts when he regenerates - maybe I just need to get used to him