Elden Ring has become one of my most played games ever, with the smallest amount of actual gameplay time, simply from the time it can take to set up just one build legitamately.
Yeah I gave up on doing that a bit ago. I have a level 200 at NG+10 or so that I just have a crap tone of larval tears on, if I run out I just speed run the game again and get more larval tears to respec
The most I have done is teleport myself to the dlc from the beginning Give myself all maps sacred tears whetblades base game talismans and golden seeds before entering dlc Otherwise I make my own build from the very beginning of the game I also don't enter ng+ So basically I do a lot of starting a new save and running around for 2 hours to start whatever playthrough I'm aiming towards I have 1400 hours in elden ring I see nothing wrong in cheating in items if you want Do whatever But I have nothing wrong with just playing the game for everything even after 1400 hours of this Video games are fun I like starting the save a lot cheating everything in isn't as fun for me because to me it's cheating me out of the experience of playing the beginning of the game I want to struggle until I get my build and then use my knowledge about the bosses to beat the shit out of everything until I either reach a challenge my build doesn't steamroll where I can then learn the fight better until I am able to complete the fight or just go until I have completed the game again
Takes me 20 hours bare minimum to set up an invader character with everything I need. And I use each of these characters for a few hours because of how bad invasions are lmao
I appreciate the nuance and intricacy with which you approach this topic. Too often is it reduced to an indefinable binary of 'cheating bad' or 'duping good actually', without any examination of the logic being used. I also like the fact that you explore the corner cases and unfortunate implications of more absolutist attitudes that aren't often acknowledged. I also appreciate the refocus from 'is this right?' to 'is this healthy for the game's enjoyability?', as it is a far more discrete question that is far easier to answer, and it draws attention to where the root causes of problems actually are. The fact that so many consider using third-party software or manipulating the files directly preferable to the in-game avenues of acquisition for many items is a condemnation of those avenues, and a pretty blatant sign that the item economy is in dire need of review. It is simply not an attitude that would be present in such numbers within a healthy item economy.
@@judyfps5059 ye, t posing levitating man, spamming all spells known to a man, tanking your FPS to a slideshow, is nowhere near someone who has 4 max lvl weapons and all the best talismans.
@@batonnikus I more so meant people setting themselves up for builds with annoying requirements like the magic scorpion charm, or the companion jar/ shard of Alex 🏺 for AoW boosts. Most people like to pvp around specific levels as well and grinding for EVERYTHING especially if you’re using consumables can be annoying. And we’re on PC so we have access to powers the console peeps don’t. And everyone knows the saying
@@judyfps5059 i see think its obvious when people spam furnace pots or big scarlet pots at lvl 10-30. genuinely so hard to play low level pvp with an honest account now because of the DLC and people cheating in items. i agree tho. if youre just setting up a character it doesn't matter. personally i like playing though the entire game with my brother and the taunters tongue so we get constant invasions throughout the whole game and improve our builds organically. it feels very adventurous. i think i only care about cheating a ton in the early game because its so hard to combat. i can only find/make so many preserving boluses 😅😅
I like cheating 999 runes in and drop some for wholesome hosts and phantoms i invade. Polite players who bow or wave to their invaders deserve the world.
Cheating to make a build: *OK* (spawning items instead of mindlessly grinding for hours) Cheating to counter cheaters: *OK* (for instance, insta-deathblighting someone with infinite HP) Cheating to grief PvErs/invaders: *NOT OK*
@qasfgdsdrgyrfddfgddd honestly, f that. Grinding ingredients so you can use consumables is bad design. They should all be purchasable by end game. Items should be there to be used, as most legit players won't bother with the constant grinding to use them
@Helleuphoria I think they’re distinguishing between crafting materials and weapons / armor. I don’t have any issue whatsoever with duping crafting mats but you gotta admit it’s a bit scummy to use cheat engine to give your RL20 invader the Sacred Relic Sword without even stepping out of Limgrave.
@nickoliekeyov746 yeah I was only talking throwables n such really. Weapons and talismans should be done legitimately unless you're going straight to 125/150/200 etc, when it comes to pvp
I just don’t understand why their isn’t a bell bearing to purchase literally every single item that people dupe all the time. Like golem arrows should be sold, greases should be sold, exhaled flesh should be sold, turtle neck should be sold, etc….. In ds3 basically all the essential pvp tools could be bought for souls, I don’t understand why they couldn’t have allowed players to just buy the stuff. I have no problem farming runes, but farming items is such a pain.
Thanks for the video bro, after a long hard deep introspection i realized its very bad to cheat in elden ring. Never will I ever undermine the sanctity of ER multiplayer I cheated on my wife instead
Cheating in order to create builds or spawn in items that can realistically be gained through a normal playthrough(s) is perfectly fine, as it's mainly only used as a massive time-saver. The Item Economy in Elden Ring is honestly terrible, even worse than previous FromSoft games what with the crafting system and how many items that are necessary for invasions are incredibly rare drops. Cheating in items is borderline necessary until FromSoft fixes the game's Item Economy, either by going back to a system where you can just purchase all the items you need in shops, or by massively upping the drop rates for rare items that can only be gained via farming (or both).
In ds3 it was possible to buy almost every pvp related consumable (maybe even all of them), in ER there's literally consumables you can only get more of in NG+
Edit 2: Farming items in this game is a pain in the neck as well as the original comment author pointed out already. Edit: obviously we do not want to use all that shit on low levels, before somebody accuses me of that This is probably the only correct take on this. Nobody has the time to farm Starlight Shards and Meat Dumplings on NG cycles. Time saving is fine, anything else is not.
as someone who doesnt cheat in items. its not as necessary as you make it seem. you can honestly win a lot of invasions with a good L2 stick and some patience 😂
I draw the line at using cheats to grief pvers or invaders with cheated stats or being invincible, making builds faster and having access to alot of items is fine cus either way people will complain if you have 999 doohicky stuff farmed or not
This game has absolutely one of the worst communities and playerbases in all of gaming,I've completely stopped playing pvp and just stick to co op helping hosts.And when we get invaded I don't feel bad about ganking whatsoever.The combination of insanely unbalanced equipment,spaghetti netcode and latency issues,and losers who spam the most OP stuff and then point down and throw poop pots at you just make it unplayable.And yea cheaters,I play on ps5 and have ran into multiple invincible people in both duels and invasions.
cannot fathom invaders having golem arrows being seen as more dishonest then 3 man teams camping first step at sl125 lmao ppl are wild edit: also yeah, the trading being allowed really hurts the duping/spawn in argument imo
There is a player on Seamless who cosplays Mohg and invites invaders to his world while cheating in extra health, mana, poise, and stamina. I only invaded him once, but I have to admit I think the way he did it was a great use of cheating and perhaps the only excusable use of cheats in pvp. Despite having way more resources than us 3 invaders, he never once dodge rolled and he did not sprint or chase down kills using his spells. He was constantly walking, not running, cycling through spells and ashes of war that mimicked the kind Mohg used in the actual boss fight (like the bloodflame spells) and when he got to half health, he used the Mohg spear ash of war as well as the crucible wings ash of war, which were great, since it thematically and literally matched the boss fight. All of this happened in the Mohg arena /throne room as well. He wasn’t a pushover, and he did chunk me a few times with bloodflame spells, but I thought he did a good job of creating a fun, thematic, asymmetrical fight in homage to the actual Mohg boss. He even cheated in a custom armor set combining the quill feather chest piece with th lord of blood robe and lamenter’s mask to look more like the real Mohg. And in the end, we won, so that was neat. I think Seamless invasions have been a great addition to the game precisely because they enable this sort of thing. But sadly, in the end these sorts of creative cheaters will always be outnumbered by scumbags who just have infinite health or invisibility or something and ruin pvp. At least in Seamless, you can send invaders home with a few clicks, so that problem is largely mitigated
I’ve encountered basically the same thing in Dark Souls 3 with someone cosplaying Gundyr. Really creative use of cheats that subverts the typical baggage of cheating.
Cheating is fine as long as you are not violating the limits of your own build, such as increasing your health above qhat your vigor and items give, infinite stamina, infinite estus, etc etc
Considering I don't have much interest in PvP, my aim in duping and other such things would be to try new builds, save the time of grinding, or not deal with overly obtuse sidequests.
The only thing that would be truly bad would be having unlimited items in pvp....but since all items have a cap on how many you can use in one life. I don't think it's bad at all
I love the introspection and intricacy here. It has never been as simple as "cheating bad, but duping good". There are other angles and corner cases. Ill always consider duping cheating because you have to bypass normal gameplay to do it. Though it's ramifications are where the real comversations lie.
I'm right there with you gamer! Would be awesome if at least after completing the game all crafting materials and purchasable items were just available at Round Table. I would even love to see the ability to buy the weapons that are normally rare drops from enemies. Would be an excellent feature for new game plus. Cheers! 🍻
I think you can still do save states; I don't know how that works, but I know some TH-camrs who play on PlayStation and reuse the same save for invasions without running out of perfumes and larval tears
People hate when I gripe about this but there is absolutely a huge advantage for players who dupe compared to those who don't. I don't use consumables as willy nilly because of playing fair, not only do you have less to use but it also affects your psyche where you are in consumable preservation mode
Turn off auto update on ps save file. Upload your save once someone has dropped you what you need. When you run out of an item download the save. You can do this to copy items too, to get the materials you need
I use cheat engine to prep new characters for PvP. There's no way I'm spending hundreds of more hours in a game I've already got hundreds of hours in just to get some fucking arteria leaves. I've already played the single player experience more times than I can remember, the game doesnt respect my time anymore
@@mrbenman97 do you ever feel like you are cheesing other players by doing so? Like if you give yourself golem arrows which are extremely rare and just blast people with them constantly. If they don’t also have access to that stuff so you ever feel guilty?
@@DreyfusLagoon Eh, not really. In my experience the extra items don't give a significant enough bonus to really change the power balance in invasions. If I'm in a 1v3 against people standing around waiting for me to invade, having some golem arrows (just as an example) isnt going to make it much easier.
spawning items using cheat engine definitely is NOT cheating and anyone who says otherwise either only values the PVE experience (which is fine) or is way too uptight about "rules" or like... pvp morality or something, in which case, theyre playing the wrong game.
note: it is unfortunate that fromsoft forces us to "cheat" in order to use golem arrows for example, but the way the game currently stands; if you aint cheatin, you aint usin that shit (they should be purchasable wtf devs)
After i beat ds3 a couple times i usually had a mod that increases soul and drop rate and cheat engine for items bosses or teleportation etc on later playthrus bc i just dont wanna waste time, this sorta thing should be fine as it doesnt harm anyone. Esp as i age and my time and tolerance for grinding shrinks, stuff like this is a must
I use cheats offline only, to fast track builds and refight bosses, that's it. I think if you've played and beaten a game multiple times, I think cheating in items and such to skip the grind is okay, as long as you're not ruining the experience online (obviously).
I just got a 180 days ban after the last update, the only thing I ever did was spawning in a few souls to quickly level a character for pvp a few months ago and nothing happened back then. I think is outrageous that FS will outright block my online for something so trivial without even giving a warning first!
@@MadAlienArt I did stupidly get caught from anti cheat one time but I wasn't banned until now, also when I was caught I hadn't actually used it, when I did use it it was later that day with anti cheat off.
Value editing gets you banned - even offline. The anitcheat just prevents tampering, it does not actually ban you. You need a script to add souls or just spawn in Lord souls.
Can I just say locking the DLC behind Mohg and Radhan is bad design when I just want the Milady or repeating crossbow on my low level builds? You don’t even have to fight a single mob to get either of them once you set foot in SOTE, but for some reason, you’re not allowed to pick them up when you start the game like everything else before mountaintops.
Beyond the obvious story implications of those bosses in the DLC, I imagine at least part of their decision was to try and gate it from a progression stance. Sort of a "If you can't beat those bosses, you can't handle the DLC" mentality, though I can't be sure. I managed to get past Mohg and Radahn on my level 10 +3/+1 but it was entirely through cheese. Bleed, Rot, & Poison and +10 Spirit Ashes can do a surprising amount for any build. Also, if you're having a lot of trouble and don't wanna mess with your build, getting an overleveled friend who can use something like Mohgwyn's Sacred Spear's Bloodboon Ritual can absolutely melt him with the right timing. I'd also highly recommend things like the Uplifting Aromatic. Can make a big difference when you'd otherwise get 1-shot. Otherwise, yeah, it's sort of lame to have to go through so much of the game just for the DLC items when new builds already have so many chores. But that's Elden Ring for ya.
Aside from your first point about the story, the DLC has its own unintuitive leveling system, with bountiful upgrade materials. I made it in on my RL60 and it was just as hard as when I walked in the first time the night it dropped on my RL138. My biggest issue with beating mohg is keeping my upgrades low. Even with black knife spam it just doesn’t do enough damage to him with the Nihil. The best summon for the fight is easily +10 dungeater but I’d need to go get the cerulean hidden tear to be able to summon him with 10 mind, which also means I’d have to summon before Nihil to use the purifying tear. It’s just lame that the DLC weapons have such low stat requirements. It also means that anybody seen using them at low levels is always seen as suspicious. I also don’t have any friends that play ER to summon. Uplifting Aromatic sounds great but is limited by crafting materials and FP. I’m also not sure how much it would help me because I have most of mohg’s moveset down. I always end up dying to the bloodflame I fail to carian retaliate and not his actual spear attacks. I appreciate the suggestions Jon, but by the time I beat him and get my build together I’ll already be planning another one.
@@TheAzul_Indigo Yeah, I don't mean to downplay any part of the struggle. It's a genuinely tough and annoying situation to deal with. Saint_Riot did a video where he took him on with a base character just by looping Mohg's moveset with a bit of baiting. He made it seem quite easy but in reality I'm sure it's a lot harder to consistently get right if you don't have adequate practice. And the Scadutree leveling system in the DLC does genuinely feel like it makes standard character levels much less relevant. It's weird how viable playing even with lower leveled weapons can be against some of the early DLC bosses. Hardest thing I ran into was having to 1v1 Rakshasa because they're immune to all status (I think) and spirit ashes aren't allowed. I suspect they may have wanted to make it harder to twink without outright forbidding it. At least, it feels that way.
@@emotionaljonxvx Sane Ryan’s scrub dojo is the best value-per-minute video on his channel. I stayed up all weekend fighting mohg, rewatch, fight mohg again, rewatch, etc. It’s always stay close, and roll right. The only way you mess up is if he does the downwards spray, but it’s got a delay, and if you miss your carian retaliation, then you’ve got to back up or take heavy DOT. Suddenly, BAM! he’s throwing blood EVERYWHERE! Re: Rakshasa, yea I wouldn’t even try the gaol bosses. I hope that when they make their next game they make the level cap 80 or something like that. Have us *all* “git gud” and make sacrifices for our build. Not just the twinks! 😭
Agree to disagree. DS2 was great, don't get me wrong - but peak design in my opinion was DS3. Best boss move-sets (other than Lothric - I hate you, LOTHRIC!), second-best mechanics (Elden Ring was slightly better there), and nostalgia goggles (it was my first!).
The convenience aspect of cheat engine is great. I think cutting down on the time to create new builds especially after you've already gone through the base game is fair game. I do think the duplication of rare consumable items is unfair though. It's very convenient no doubt, but when you take that Batman sized gadget arsenal into an invasion for example especially against people who aren't using cheat engine to have 99 of every bolus, starlight shards, meat dumplings, etc. then you have a clear somewhat unfair advantage against that player or players. Those tools certainly help invasions feel fairer, but I think that needing a surplus of consumables that your opponents don't have as much access to in order to even out the very common 3v1 playing field of invasions speaks a lot to the poor balance of the 4 player limit restrictions in Elden Ring. I think in the end it's still an unfair tool against people who aren't using it as well, but there's no way to make that distinction which forces you to choose between quality of life access to consumables or playing the game as intended.
I think many people have captured what is cheating an what is not. One aspect I did not see brought up was cheating to twink. While I understand the draw. I personally think one sjould not cheeat to create twink builds. I am a big fan of the idea of proving oneself. If I want to use lets say the Messmer Sokdier Axe at Level 15 with +2 weapon (smithing), I need to bear Mogh and Radahn at that level anf the only skip the grind with Cheat Engine. But just cheating it in after starting the game instantly, its not something I agree with. Also now the Starlight Shard can be farmed from Demi Human Swordsmen now.
i really enjoyed your video. i will admit that i used to alt-f4 when invaded... i have also dropped and received items from over-leveled friends and reverted back to an old save. I have used a latency plugin to see player ping. And I also had.... a "clear all entities" button... definitely not proud of that honestly lol but it was fun at the time. That was a long time ago though... Now I spend most of my time farming golem arrows legit while waiting to be summoned at RL137.
As someone who mainly PvP in arena, there is 0 things wrong with giving yourself items to save time. I have 1000+ hours in most souls games, but 0 of that is from farming. I’m a grown ass man I don’t have time to deal with abysmal drops, I just want to game. My rule for this is if I beat game then I can give myself w/e, so I can PvP comfortably.
If you cheat, and your opponent cheats, anything is fair game. In other words, if you do the physick glitch, you probably shouldn't complain about getting chainsawed. If you chainsaw, you probably shouldn't complain about getting curse daggered. You both cheated, they just cheated better. As for the argument that cheating to save time is okay - olympic athletes could say they used steroids to save time on training and their gains were achievable natty but I doubt that argument would convince many. But ultimately its a game and none of this really matters. I'm certainly guilty of duping to save time but I won't pretend that's not cheating.
these items have to be made available someway by natural progression. having to farm those arrows you cant buy or craft is such a pain. same goes for some crafting material that DO not respawn when sat at a grace. 20 starlight shards per playthrough for PVP players is just useless. Still I see many invadors and streamers having a seemingly bottemless supply of these extreme rare items.
why farm my ass of if i can gain the items with a single click of a button. besides, beating the game rlvl1 is kinda part of the "intended experiance", if the boss fights are something u care about too. ps. when i first heard about buying runes on 3rd party sides, i couldnt belife it, coming from skyrim modding/generaly pc gaming, it is ,still, unfathomable to me how someone could be so dumm
I just think people who use dlc and end game items at low levels is kinda messed up but at the same time it doesnt really matter since they dont do a lot of damage, AND due to high requirements of dlc weapons, they sacrifice their health and defenses (soreseals and scarseals). But i remembered getting so angry because i saw someone use waterfowl dance at me (it was millicent 😭😭) when i first played the game. I knew the move because i watched lmsh videos.
7:05 Turning in my card. I disconnected on an invader because he ran ahead of me in the level, went up an elevator and stood on the button so I could no longer progress, and I wasn't going to suicide and redo the level because of that, so I just closed the game. Not giving him my death just because he wants to exploit a flaw in the game to grief me.
If they went down instead of up you could have used waves of darkness to push them off the button, but as far as I know there is no way to push them out of the elevator if you are below
my line was simple before eldenring but right now its a mess... i usually farm everything possible on the character and then trade and dupe all the consumables. all the weapons need to be accessed in the world to play them and if i want to dual wield or have multiple copies then i have to get them on another character if i want to use them. all the talismans and cookbooks need to be accessed in the world aswell. so ie i duplicate the consumables and trade over the weapons for multiples. and even with that i have spent so much time farming in this game it's actually insane... more than 500h for farming and buildmaking and thats the lowest estemate i could come up with...😢 guys.... if you want to pvp with a set build and dont have 100h just for setting up 2 characters then cheat... i dunno what else to say sorry from😮💨
Megamule helped keep Dark Souls 1 PvP alive for years and years. I never would have hung around in that game for so long if I'd had to grind out every single build from scratch.
To be fair though, it’s much more feasible and much less taxing doing a 4 to 6 hour run through Dark souls 1-3 to put a build together than it is the minimum 20-40 hour slog through Elden Ring, and that’s if you know exactly where to go and what quests you’re doing for the stuff you’re running, if you’re a poor sap like me that has to do everything beforehand you’re talking 150+ hours maybe more just on a single playthrough just to get everything you may wanna use for PvP, I’ve got characters on DS3 that go up to 300 hours each and that’s majority invasion/dueling time, by the time I’ve got my character ready in Elden Ring I just don’t wanna play the game anymore… especially given I know I’m just gonna get the 3 v 1 blender experience all the time anyway
Yes, it is totally ok, actually. Me and my level 802 buddies always make sure to stock up on all consumables in the game before we initiate our cooperation against invaders at level 21.
I love that the blame was planted at the very design of how rare the useful items are, like I'd personally consider using a starlight shard at all cheating because there's really no legitimate way to replenish the stock, therefore turning what would be an extremely useful item completely useless
Cheating for the sake of making builds, especially in a specific level bracket is a GOD SEND. Especially if you're like me and like to make a lot of different builds. Just recently i made a Man Eater Mildred kosplay in Bloodborne, but realized i needed to get to a late game area to buy poison knives. Now to do the same thing in a massive game like Elden Ring sounds obnoxious, and I totally respect those who admit they just don't have the time or patience to set up a build "legitimately" everytime they want to experiment Obviously cheating to grief is unacceptable.
I love the attempt to get those who disconnect to self-snitch. LOL This made me chuckle. (there is a special place in the lake of rot for those who do that btw)
I never understood single player cheating to finish a game. If you don't want to 'play' the game then go watch a walkthrough. Also limited items that you can only get so many per playthrough are not a fun design choice. Why can't we have buy-able or farm-able Starlight Shards, even if it's at the end of the game? That alone has stopped me from even considering a Magic centric playstyle, only ever relying on weapons in game.I do understand content creators on youtube and like-wise spawning items or altering stats for testing and demonstration.
It's OK to play a game however you want. You don't need some TH-camr to tell you whether or not it's OK. Trainers can't be used while the game is connected to the internet, so it doesn't affect PvP. No problem here.
I think my personal line for when an action falls into 'unfair' or 'cheating' is going to depend on what I think is considered bypassing an unreasonable ask of time investment for the same playing field, vs bypassing the same time investment for an advantage. I'll also preface this by saying I used to use cheat engine in Dark Souls 1 for making builds quite often. There was no built in respec, if you wanted a new build you had to start over. I don't use cheat engine in Elden Ring, it feels like the inconveniences generally don't justify it anymore. Though I do wish they'd just give us a farm for infinite respecs, because I'm on Journey 2 with most of my alts, Journey 3 with my original char, having carefully planned and used every larval tear per run. If you want to cheat to put together a build, get past some bosses, get yourself to 150, etc, I really don't think I care about that. In the end it will be you and me, level 150, max upgraded weapons, killing each other. If you cheat for golem arrows, that's at the very least annoying as fuck to me, because now I can't match the sheer amount of annoying 'knock you off a ledge' greatbow play that a player who installed cheat engine has, without either installing and using it as well, or putting in an ungodly amount of time killing golems. I feel similarly about starlight shards or other consumables that you can't farm for outside of running new games repeatedly. I feel that by gating these things behind a new playthrough the intention of the devs was to make them one time panic use items that are limited through your whole NG cycle. Similarly to the people chugging divine blessings in dark souls 1, if the devs intend for you to have like 10 of them max, and you're using 10 per invasion, we're gonna have problems. I do think golem arrows certainly fall in a grey area in that they are infinitely farmable, technically, but we all know what a nightmare that is in reality, and I think the devs should have picked a lane and made them limited per playthrough, or more farmable through sane methods. For me, if its a grey area I'm gonna err on the side of caution because I'd rather have a level playing field than enable third party tools or exploits. That and having vs not having golem arrows is a clear advantage imo, where having a build finished faster is not going to change the outcome of the invasion you're in right now, its not like you're any different in practice to any 150 invader, just because you got there faster. Realistically if you aren't cheating for golem arrows, and you aren't that 1% of complete nutjob who farms them, you probably just don't have or use them. Anyways, I think the devs should be more explicit about what is meant to be limited by preventing stockpiling, and making 'farmable' consumables purchasable in the ultra late game. After beating the final boss even. They should allow things like respecs, and allow you to lose levels/toss upgraded weapons to drop brackets, so long as you are the level you're supposed to be with the weapons that fit the multiplayer bracket that you're in. As for cheating with infinite hp/Iframes, etc, keep it offline, and I don't give a shit. The moment you step into multiplayer you should be on the same playing field as the other players. (not talking about invasion balance, I'll whine about that later, but that's a balance issue, and we don't solve those by cheating, that'd be dumb as fuck)
My personal belief has always been if you’re altering the game with any code or data not designed or written by the official devteam, it’s cheating. Glitches, exploits, and skips are completely valid. HOWEVER, I believe there’s absolutely nothing wrong with playing the game how you like if you’re enjoying a solo experience or experimenting. So long as you aren’t actively compromising the enjoyment or value of another player’s experience in the process it’s not a bad deed. Video games are fun first, always. And for some people modding and hacks are how they have their own fun. Just respect your fellow gamers along the way.
When ever someone launches eldenring there is a statement that you have to accept every time to " not alter ingame data for online play " as long as you altered said data = cheating
I'll always advocate for item duplication via CE due to the game's insanely bad loot economy. There's no way to realistically grind out the consumables (I tried).
The line is very simple. If you’re cheating and it’s along the bounds of the game it’s not a big deal rarity of the item be damn. If you’re breaking rules, infinite of something or invulnerable you clearly are in the wrong. Cheating doesn’t matter in pve, so the rules only apply to pvp.
I know this will be a hot take but I think that the scarcity of a consumable item's ingredients is part of how they're balanced, so the people who spawn in 999 of every arrow/pot/buff (or duplicate tem via save file backups) to use in pvp are cheating. The reason St Trina's arrows and Sleepbone arrows are a pain to get is because they're incredibly powerful - making them infinite via cheat engine removes the downside and messes with the balance equation. I don't think it should be as widely accepted as it is. If you're making weapon review videos and you spawn in one of each weapon at max level I can accept that. But if you're invading at level 20 and you've spawned in two Vyke Spears or Trina Swords to kill newbies in Stormveil, that's cheating.
I personally use CE to set up PvP characters or to test certain things, and I don’t mind if others use it for the same. I really don’t care if someone actually went thru the trouble of farming, I’m gonna be facing those items and weapons anyways. As long as you’re not actively cheating stuff mid fight or making yourself invulnerable/whatever, I don’t care. If FromSoft could see beyond their silly Japanese sensibilities, they’d understand there are people out there who don’t want to repeat content a billion times and struggle with finicky mechanics just to perform simple actions like respec-ing.
Ive beaten the game at RL25(my lowest level for invasions) on each class and done a 100% playthrough(all weapons, armor, and at least a stack of each consumable like golem arrows). I'm over 1k hours player, to be blunt I have better things to do than yet another 40+ hour playthrough just to prep a new RL200 invasion character, so I'll use tools like Cheat Engine. I have a life, and work full time, i'd rather get to the content i enjoy(invasions) than spend days prepping for said content
Honestly I wouldn’t blame someone for using cheats to get certain items, since no one wants to grind or do another new playthrough to get a bit of rope for their grease.🐱
Good video. You need to talk about crafting in Elden Ring. Buying hips tons of Lloyd's Talismans in Dark Souls vs FARMING MOTHER****ING ALBINAURIC BLOODCLOTS in Elden Ring. What a downgrade of a game.
As a SL1-5 twink invader, i usually place the line at no exploits and no mule/duping. Everything else is fair game. I've seen too many shameless overleveled phantoms or ganks at the "first step" bonfire that i didn't mind using the thunderbolt AoW, volcano pots or a health regen loadout back at them. There is an arm race going on between invaders and ganks and the only losers are the ones from both sides who will try to be legit and "non-sweaty". Me personally, i checked out of Elden Ring and found it more relaxing on DS1 and 2. I just hope FROM makes a solo game next time, the way they handled ER's multiplayer was awful.
I agree on everything except the removal of multiplayer from the next game: people need to learn to deal with invaders, preferably solo, when consuming THE game's main buffing item, as it was until DS3. As usual: if anyone wants to avoid invasions, just play offline; playing coop lures invaders and rightly so.
Chainsaw glitching PvEers was always ok, hell I’d argue that not doing it was unacceptable, you were morally obligated to chainsaw glitch PvEers. The only reason it is gone is because all the PvEers sent Micheal Zaki their feet pics and their prayers were answered whilst we were punished for doing the right thing. All jokes aside, cheating to make a build is fine, ER makes getting everything set up tedious when you just want to PvP, same with using glitches to take out save edited characters and other exploiters, I’d go as far to say it’s justified to cheat against shitters but that’s probably just because I’m petty lol.
Play offline, use Cheat engine or glorious merchant to get whatever you want and then open the game as usual with CE or merchant disabled and you can play online with the things you got
Also: items like Starlight Shards MUST be limited to have proper balance, period. 😤 They can be traded to facilitate coop (which i HATE outside of bosses) without forcing you to sever and resummon to resupply for a bossfight...
A good rule is if all players involved are ok with it, its all good. Copying saves or Cheating in items to make a build early: OK Using mods like Convergance, reforged or seamless co-op: Go for it Hacking your character to make it have impossible stats to pvp with unsuspecting oponents : not cool
I spawn in all my crafting materials and starlight shards. Ill get all my equipment by playing through the game. Having to farm is too disrespectful of my time.
I do the same but I also give me duplicates of a weapon if I want 2 or more. For example on my faith build when I obtained the coded sword manually I spawned in another one to be able to power stance them, but on that character I spawned in every bolus because you need them if you are going to PvP and I'm not going to farm to make 900 rot boluses
If you're playing offline and never pvp, then cheat all the F you want, alter stats, drop loot, use mods, whatever. It's only your own experience you're screwing with . If you're online and playing PVP? No, don't do anything outside of the game. If that means you have to spend hours farming for rare items to make things that help you in PVP then that's the game.
I made honest builds for the first few hundred hours, but when every mage is cracking multiple stars, everyone has a million boluses, golem arrows ect, I just can’t anymore. They all deserve it. Chain them together, send them to the volcano with or without cheats
If you're a duelist, I think it's ok to cheat yourself a full inventory of items. It encourages using them and makes fighting interesting. With invading random people it's on a vibe check. By default it is a dick move as you can't guarantee the other guy can waste rare items carelessly but circumstances may prove otherwise.
Only thing i use cheat engine for is larvak tears and ancient smithing stones so I can try more builds without doing NG+ since i have all questlines done. As far as im concerned there is no moral implication here. Starlight shards and other like items are scummy though.
Honestly i wish the arena had a no consumable rule, im exhaisted by everyone throwing 200 pots, knives, and using rot, magic or lightning drawstrings. ... its annoying as hell My characters are legit and someone throwing rare pots and drawstrings is annoying.
Use drawstrings or pots yourself, specially know that they auto refill so you don't waste anything. The thing that doesn't refill is the stuff that you can craft like fan daggers but you can get them really cheap
The line for cheating is wherever you decide it to be. I beat every Fromsoft game up to NG+3-5, then started cheating so I can just enjoy the worlds/stories, except Bloodborne (cause there's no PC version), Sekiro and Elden Ring. Sekiro has amazing combat, but due to eye problems and hand muscle issues I just can't keep up. I'm sure I could with a lot of time I'm just not willing to give, so I cheat. I think I started on the second fight with the Old Monk? I felt so awful about it I turned off the cheats because I respected the final boss too much and won after like 10 tries from all the power boosts from the cheating. As for Elden Ring, I got all the way up to the mountain of the giants and saw the massive spike of HP and damage of the enemies and felt like the game was purposely wasting my time so I started cheating. Those were my lines.
Elden Ring has become one of my most played games ever, with the smallest amount of actual gameplay time, simply from the time it can take to set up just one build legitamately.
Yeah I gave up on doing that a bit ago. I have a level 200 at NG+10 or so that I just have a crap tone of larval tears on, if I run out I just speed run the game again and get more larval tears to respec
The most I have done is teleport myself to the dlc from the beginning
Give myself all maps sacred tears whetblades base game talismans and golden seeds before entering dlc
Otherwise I make my own build from the very beginning of the game
I also don't enter ng+
So basically I do a lot of starting a new save and running around for 2 hours to start whatever playthrough I'm aiming towards
I have 1400 hours in elden ring I see nothing wrong in cheating in items if you want
Do whatever
But I have nothing wrong with just playing the game for everything even after 1400 hours of this
Video games are fun I like starting the save a lot cheating everything in isn't as fun for me because to me it's cheating me out of the experience of playing the beginning of the game
I want to struggle until I get my build and then use my knowledge about the bosses to beat the shit out of everything until I either reach a challenge my build doesn't steamroll where I can then learn the fight better until I am able to complete the fight or just go until I have completed the game again
Takes me 20 hours bare minimum to set up an invader character with everything I need. And I use each of these characters for a few hours because of how bad invasions are lmao
why the fuck is there no rune arc merchant trading you un-farmable items in return LOL
thats a genius solution tbh
Been saying since this day 1 of Elden Ring.
1 arc per 2 arteria leaf would still be good value, I got nearly 200 arcs on a full playthrough.
You can farm them from rats. But it's such an insanely low drop you shouldn't even bother.
You can farm everything.
miyazaki told me cheating is completely intended, & getting banned is just a skill issue.
LOL
Getting caught is a skill issue
I appreciate the nuance and intricacy with which you approach this topic. Too often is it reduced to an indefinable binary of 'cheating bad' or 'duping good actually', without any examination of the logic being used. I also like the fact that you explore the corner cases and unfortunate implications of more absolutist attitudes that aren't often acknowledged.
I also appreciate the refocus from 'is this right?' to 'is this healthy for the game's enjoyability?', as it is a far more discrete question that is far easier to answer, and it draws attention to where the root causes of problems actually are. The fact that so many consider using third-party software or manipulating the files directly preferable to the in-game avenues of acquisition for many items is a condemnation of those avenues, and a pretty blatant sign that the item economy is in dire need of review. It is simply not an attitude that would be present in such numbers within a healthy item economy.
Having fought both actual cheaters and people who used cheat engine to set up characters for pvp at specific levels. There is a difference
great take honestly, agree
@@judyfps5059 ye, t posing levitating man, spamming all spells known to a man, tanking your FPS to a slideshow, is nowhere near someone who has 4 max lvl weapons and all the best talismans.
@@batonnikus I more so meant people setting themselves up for builds with annoying requirements like the magic scorpion charm, or the companion jar/ shard of Alex 🏺 for AoW boosts. Most people like to pvp around specific levels as well and grinding for EVERYTHING especially if you’re using consumables can be annoying. And we’re on PC so we have access to powers the console peeps don’t. And everyone knows the saying
@@judyfps5059 i see think its obvious when people spam furnace pots or big scarlet pots at lvl 10-30. genuinely so hard to play low level pvp with an honest account now because of the DLC and people cheating in items. i agree tho. if youre just setting up a character it doesn't matter. personally i like playing though the entire game with my brother and the taunters tongue so we get constant invasions throughout the whole game and improve our builds organically. it feels very adventurous. i think i only care about cheating a ton in the early game because its so hard to combat. i can only find/make so many preserving boluses 😅😅
I like cheating 999 runes in and drop some for wholesome hosts and phantoms i invade. Polite players who bow or wave to their invaders deserve the world.
Cheating to make a build: *OK* (spawning items instead of mindlessly grinding for hours)
Cheating to counter cheaters: *OK* (for instance, insta-deathblighting someone with infinite HP)
Cheating to grief PvErs/invaders: *NOT OK*
I'd like to disagree with the first point. Obtaining equipment should be part of the game, even if it is tedious.
@qasfgdsdrgyrfddfgddd honestly, f that. Grinding ingredients so you can use consumables is bad design. They should all be purchasable by end game. Items should be there to be used, as most legit players won't bother with the constant grinding to use them
@Helleuphoria
I think they’re distinguishing between crafting materials and weapons / armor. I don’t have any issue whatsoever with duping crafting mats but you gotta admit it’s a bit scummy to use cheat engine to give your RL20 invader the Sacred Relic Sword without even stepping out of Limgrave.
Agreed
@nickoliekeyov746 yeah I was only talking throwables n such really. Weapons and talismans should be done legitimately unless you're going straight to 125/150/200 etc, when it comes to pvp
I just don’t understand why their isn’t a bell bearing to purchase literally every single item that people dupe all the time. Like golem arrows should be sold, greases should be sold, exhaled flesh should be sold, turtle neck should be sold, etc…..
In ds3 basically all the essential pvp tools could be bought for souls, I don’t understand why they couldn’t have allowed players to just buy the stuff. I have no problem farming runes, but farming items is such a pain.
Very true
Personally this is an extremely easy question you can do literally anything you want as long as you do not negatively impact other players experiences
Thanks for the video bro, after a long hard deep introspection i realized its very bad to cheat in elden ring. Never will I ever undermine the sanctity of ER multiplayer
I cheated on my wife instead
Come on
Cheating in order to create builds or spawn in items that can realistically be gained through a normal playthrough(s) is perfectly fine, as it's mainly only used as a massive time-saver.
The Item Economy in Elden Ring is honestly terrible, even worse than previous FromSoft games what with the crafting system and how many items that are necessary for invasions are incredibly rare drops.
Cheating in items is borderline necessary until FromSoft fixes the game's Item Economy, either by going back to a system where you can just purchase all the items you need in shops, or by massively upping the drop rates for rare items that can only be gained via farming (or both).
In ds3 it was possible to buy almost every pvp related consumable (maybe even all of them), in ER there's literally consumables you can only get more of in NG+
Edit 2: Farming items in this game is a pain in the neck as well as the original comment author pointed out already.
Edit: obviously we do not want to use all that shit on low levels, before somebody accuses me of that
This is probably the only correct take on this. Nobody has the time to farm Starlight Shards and Meat Dumplings on NG cycles. Time saving is fine, anything else is not.
@@rigel9228 ds3 had siegbrau which is pretty good and some people spammed it by cheating it in
No, I don't want cheaters with 30 golem arrows and 10 starlight shards in my game
as someone who doesnt cheat in items. its not as necessary as you make it seem. you can honestly win a lot of invasions with a good L2 stick and some patience 😂
I draw the line at using cheats to grief pvers or invaders with cheated stats or being invincible, making builds faster and having access to alot of items is fine cus either way people will complain if you have 999 doohicky stuff farmed or not
Fromsoft games have one of the only playerbases I've seen where players try to justify cheating and exploiting 💀
Yep... And it got worse with ER. 😢
This game has absolutely one of the worst communities and playerbases in all of gaming,I've completely stopped playing pvp and just stick to co op helping hosts.And when we get invaded I don't feel bad about ganking whatsoever.The combination of insanely unbalanced equipment,spaghetti netcode and latency issues,and losers who spam the most OP stuff and then point down and throw poop pots at you just make it unplayable.And yea cheaters,I play on ps5 and have ran into multiple invincible people in both duels and invasions.
Duping crafting materials is a time and sanity saving measure that I don’t think should really be an issue.
You already know I agree with you mate. Just here to show support. Glad you're still making videos.
cannot fathom invaders having golem arrows being seen as more dishonest then 3 man teams camping first step at sl125 lmao ppl are wild
edit: also yeah, the trading being allowed really hurts the duping/spawn in argument imo
well fromsoftware made ganks the norm. its just how it is in this game. you can accept it or i guess cheat?😅
There is a player on Seamless who cosplays Mohg and invites invaders to his world while cheating in extra health, mana, poise, and stamina. I only invaded him once, but I have to admit I think the way he did it was a great use of cheating and perhaps the only excusable use of cheats in pvp.
Despite having way more resources than us 3 invaders, he never once dodge rolled and he did not sprint or chase down kills using his spells. He was constantly walking, not running, cycling through spells and ashes of war that mimicked the kind Mohg used in the actual boss fight (like the bloodflame spells) and when he got to half health, he used the Mohg spear ash of war as well as the crucible wings ash of war, which were great, since it thematically and literally matched the boss fight. All of this happened in the Mohg arena /throne room as well. He wasn’t a pushover, and he did chunk me a few times with bloodflame spells, but I thought he did a good job of creating a fun, thematic, asymmetrical fight in homage to the actual Mohg boss. He even cheated in a custom armor set combining the quill feather chest piece with th lord of blood robe and lamenter’s mask to look more like the real Mohg. And in the end, we won, so that was neat.
I think Seamless invasions have been a great addition to the game precisely because they enable this sort of thing. But sadly, in the end these sorts of creative cheaters will always be outnumbered by scumbags who just have infinite health or invisibility or something and ruin pvp. At least in Seamless, you can send invaders home with a few clicks, so that problem is largely mitigated
I’ve encountered basically the same thing in Dark Souls 3 with someone cosplaying Gundyr. Really creative use of cheats that subverts the typical baggage of cheating.
Cheating is fine as long as you are not violating the limits of your own build, such as increasing your health above qhat your vigor and items give, infinite stamina, infinite estus, etc etc
Considering I don't have much interest in PvP, my aim in duping and other such things would be to try new builds, save the time of grinding, or not deal with overly obtuse sidequests.
The only thing that would be truly bad would be having unlimited items in pvp....but since all items have a cap on how many you can use in one life. I don't think it's bad at all
I cheat in items to make new builds, but I do it in a way that when I invade the other player has no reason to believe I've cheated in any way.
I love the introspection and intricacy here. It has never been as simple as "cheating bad, but duping good". There are other angles and corner cases.
Ill always consider duping cheating because you have to bypass normal gameplay to do it. Though it's ramifications are where the real comversations lie.
PlayStation Players (like me) wish we could get infinite consumables
I'm right there with you gamer! Would be awesome if at least after completing the game all crafting materials and purchasable items were just available at Round Table. I would even love to see the ability to buy the weapons that are normally rare drops from enemies. Would be an excellent feature for new game plus. Cheers! 🍻
I think you can still do save states; I don't know how that works, but I know some TH-camrs who play on PlayStation and reuse the same save for invasions without running out of perfumes and larval tears
People hate when I gripe about this but there is absolutely a huge advantage for players who dupe compared to those who don't. I don't use consumables as willy nilly because of playing fair, not only do you have less to use but it also affects your psyche where you are in consumable preservation mode
It's not a mechanic because consumables are busted in this game
Turn off auto update on ps save file. Upload your save once someone has dropped you what you need. When you run out of an item download the save.
You can do this to copy items too, to get the materials you need
I use cheat engine to prep new characters for PvP. There's no way I'm spending hundreds of more hours in a game I've already got hundreds of hours in just to get some fucking arteria leaves. I've already played the single player experience more times than I can remember, the game doesnt respect my time anymore
@@mrbenman97 do you ever feel like you are cheesing other players by doing so? Like if you give yourself golem arrows which are extremely rare and just blast people with them constantly. If they don’t also have access to that stuff so you ever feel guilty?
@@DreyfusLagoon Eh, not really. In my experience the extra items don't give a significant enough bonus to really change the power balance in invasions. If I'm in a 1v3 against people standing around waiting for me to invade, having some golem arrows (just as an example) isnt going to make it much easier.
110% agreed
spawning items using cheat engine definitely is NOT cheating and anyone who says otherwise either only values the PVE experience (which is fine) or is way too uptight about "rules" or like... pvp morality or something, in which case, theyre playing the wrong game.
note: it is unfortunate that fromsoft forces us to "cheat" in order to use golem arrows for example, but the way the game currently stands; if you aint cheatin, you aint usin that shit (they should be purchasable wtf devs)
After i beat ds3 a couple times i usually had a mod that increases soul and drop rate and cheat engine for items bosses or teleportation etc on later playthrus bc i just dont wanna waste time, this sorta thing should be fine as it doesnt harm anyone. Esp as i age and my time and tolerance for grinding shrinks, stuff like this is a must
True
I use cheats offline only, to fast track builds and refight bosses, that's it. I think if you've played and beaten a game multiple times, I think cheating in items and such to skip the grind is okay, as long as you're not ruining the experience online (obviously).
Shocked they didn’t make everything purchasable with souls in dlc since duping is so common.
I just got a 180 days ban after the last update, the only thing I ever did was spawning in a few souls to quickly level a character for pvp a few months ago and nothing happened back then. I think is outrageous that FS will outright block my online for something so trivial without even giving a warning first!
How did you do it? did you turn off easy anti cheat? did you start in offline mode?
@@MadAlienArt I did stupidly get caught from anti cheat one time but I wasn't banned until now, also when I was caught I hadn't actually used it, when I did use it it was later that day with anti cheat off.
Value editing gets you banned - even offline. The anitcheat just prevents tampering, it does not actually ban you. You need a script to add souls or just spawn in Lord souls.
respectfull fistfight? haha youre a genius dude. i shall
Can I just say locking the DLC behind Mohg and Radhan is bad design when I just want the Milady or repeating crossbow on my low level builds? You don’t even have to fight a single mob to get either of them once you set foot in SOTE, but for some reason, you’re not allowed to pick them up when you start the game like everything else before mountaintops.
Beyond the obvious story implications of those bosses in the DLC, I imagine at least part of their decision was to try and gate it from a progression stance. Sort of a "If you can't beat those bosses, you can't handle the DLC" mentality, though I can't be sure.
I managed to get past Mohg and Radahn on my level 10 +3/+1 but it was entirely through cheese. Bleed, Rot, & Poison and +10 Spirit Ashes can do a surprising amount for any build. Also, if you're having a lot of trouble and don't wanna mess with your build, getting an overleveled friend who can use something like Mohgwyn's Sacred Spear's Bloodboon Ritual can absolutely melt him with the right timing. I'd also highly recommend things like the Uplifting Aromatic. Can make a big difference when you'd otherwise get 1-shot.
Otherwise, yeah, it's sort of lame to have to go through so much of the game just for the DLC items when new builds already have so many chores. But that's Elden Ring for ya.
@@TheAzul_Indigo as long as you are good at the fights you can get access to both those bosses fairly quickly
Aside from your first point about the story, the DLC has its own unintuitive leveling system, with bountiful upgrade materials. I made it in on my RL60 and it was just as hard as when I walked in the first time the night it dropped on my RL138.
My biggest issue with beating mohg is keeping my upgrades low. Even with black knife spam it just doesn’t do enough damage to him with the Nihil.
The best summon for the fight is easily +10 dungeater but I’d need to go get the cerulean hidden tear to be able to summon him with 10 mind, which also means I’d have to summon before Nihil to use the purifying tear.
It’s just lame that the DLC weapons have such low stat requirements. It also means that anybody seen using them at low levels is always seen as suspicious.
I also don’t have any friends that play ER to summon. Uplifting Aromatic sounds great but is limited by crafting materials and FP. I’m also not sure how much it would help me because I have most of mohg’s moveset down. I always end up dying to the bloodflame I fail to carian retaliate and not his actual spear attacks.
I appreciate the suggestions Jon, but by the time I beat him and get my build together I’ll already be planning another one.
@@TheAzul_Indigo Yeah, I don't mean to downplay any part of the struggle. It's a genuinely tough and annoying situation to deal with.
Saint_Riot did a video where he took him on with a base character just by looping Mohg's moveset with a bit of baiting. He made it seem quite easy but in reality I'm sure it's a lot harder to consistently get right if you don't have adequate practice.
And the Scadutree leveling system in the DLC does genuinely feel like it makes standard character levels much less relevant. It's weird how viable playing even with lower leveled weapons can be against some of the early DLC bosses. Hardest thing I ran into was having to 1v1 Rakshasa because they're immune to all status (I think) and spirit ashes aren't allowed.
I suspect they may have wanted to make it harder to twink without outright forbidding it. At least, it feels that way.
@@emotionaljonxvx Sane Ryan’s scrub dojo is the best value-per-minute video on his channel. I stayed up all weekend fighting mohg, rewatch, fight mohg again, rewatch, etc. It’s always stay close, and roll right. The only way you mess up is if he does the downwards spray, but it’s got a delay, and if you miss your carian retaliation, then you’ve got to back up or take heavy DOT. Suddenly, BAM! he’s throwing blood EVERYWHERE!
Re: Rakshasa, yea I wouldn’t even try the gaol bosses.
I hope that when they make their next game they make the level cap 80 or something like that. Have us *all* “git gud” and make sacrifices for our build. Not just the twinks! 😭
I killed commander gaius while hiding behind a wall the whole time and couldn't be happier with my decision
Cheesing isn't the problem here...
@@alessandrobaggi6129 an astounding revelation that has shook me to my very core
@@alessandrobaggi6129 an astounding revelation that has shook me to my very core
miyazakis hatred for ds2 (mad that its peak souls and he had nothing to do with it) has had terrible consequences for subsequent games
True
Bait used to be believable
Agree to disagree. DS2 was great, don't get me wrong - but peak design in my opinion was DS3. Best boss move-sets (other than Lothric - I hate you, LOTHRIC!), second-best mechanics (Elden Ring was slightly better there), and nostalgia goggles (it was my first!).
DS3 is watered down str8 corridor piece of diarrhea
I understand loving DS2 (it was my first souls game), but there's many things about that game that definitely aren't peak lol
The convenience aspect of cheat engine is great. I think cutting down on the time to create new builds especially after you've already gone through the base game is fair game. I do think the duplication of rare consumable items is unfair though. It's very convenient no doubt, but when you take that Batman sized gadget arsenal into an invasion for example especially against people who aren't using cheat engine to have 99 of every bolus, starlight shards, meat dumplings, etc. then you have a clear somewhat unfair advantage against that player or players. Those tools certainly help invasions feel fairer, but I think that needing a surplus of consumables that your opponents don't have as much access to in order to even out the very common 3v1 playing field of invasions speaks a lot to the poor balance of the 4 player limit restrictions in Elden Ring. I think in the end it's still an unfair tool against people who aren't using it as well, but there's no way to make that distinction which forces you to choose between quality of life access to consumables or playing the game as intended.
Duping is a solution to Fromsoft's sloppy design.
Duping is the line
I think many people have captured what is cheating an what is not. One aspect I did not see brought up was cheating to twink. While I understand the draw. I personally think one sjould not cheeat to create twink builds. I am a big fan of the idea of proving oneself. If I want to use lets say the Messmer Sokdier Axe at Level 15 with +2 weapon (smithing), I need to bear Mogh and Radahn at that level anf the only skip the grind with Cheat Engine. But just cheating it in after starting the game instantly, its not something I agree with.
Also now the Starlight Shard can be farmed from Demi Human Swordsmen now.
Only time I disconnect is if I see a gank and I don't have enough time to activate the finger severing knife
i really enjoyed your video. i will admit that i used to alt-f4 when invaded... i have also dropped and received items from over-leveled friends and reverted back to an old save. I have used a latency plugin to see player ping. And I also had.... a "clear all entities" button... definitely not proud of that honestly lol but it was fun at the time. That was a long time ago though... Now I spend most of my time farming golem arrows legit while waiting to be summoned at RL137.
The worst I’ve done is giving myself max starlight shards for my invasions 150+
I cheat in hella larval tears
As someone who mainly PvP in arena, there is 0 things wrong with giving yourself items to save time. I have 1000+ hours in most souls games, but 0 of that is from farming. I’m a grown ass man I don’t have time to deal with abysmal drops, I just want to game.
My rule for this is if I beat game then I can give myself w/e, so I can PvP comfortably.
If you cheat, and your opponent cheats, anything is fair game. In other words, if you do the physick glitch, you probably shouldn't complain about getting chainsawed. If you chainsaw, you probably shouldn't complain about getting curse daggered. You both cheated, they just cheated better. As for the argument that cheating to save time is okay - olympic athletes could say they used steroids to save time on training and their gains were achievable natty but I doubt that argument would convince many. But ultimately its a game and none of this really matters. I'm certainly guilty of duping to save time but I won't pretend that's not cheating.
these items have to be made available someway by natural progression. having to farm those arrows you cant buy or craft is such a pain. same goes for some crafting material that DO not respawn when sat at a grace. 20 starlight shards per playthrough for PVP players is just useless. Still I see many invadors and streamers having a seemingly bottemless supply of these extreme rare items.
as a console pve player id love to one day use a max level build against bosses
why farm my ass of if i can gain the items with a single click of a button. besides, beating the game rlvl1 is kinda part of the "intended experiance", if the boss fights are something u care about too.
ps. when i first heard about buying runes on 3rd party sides, i couldnt belife it, coming from skyrim modding/generaly pc gaming, it is ,still, unfathomable to me how someone could be so dumm
I just think people who use dlc and end game items at low levels is kinda messed up but at the same time it doesnt really matter since they dont do a lot of damage, AND due to high requirements of dlc weapons, they sacrifice their health and defenses (soreseals and scarseals). But i remembered getting so angry because i saw someone use waterfowl dance at me (it was millicent 😭😭) when i first played the game. I knew the move because i watched lmsh videos.
Fun fact, Millicent is basically cheating by having waterfowl dance on a Shamshir
7:05 Turning in my card. I disconnected on an invader because he ran ahead of me in the level, went up an elevator and stood on the button so I could no longer progress, and I wasn't going to suicide and redo the level because of that, so I just closed the game. Not giving him my death just because he wants to exploit a flaw in the game to grief me.
If they went down instead of up you could have used waves of darkness to push them off the button, but as far as I know there is no way to push them out of the elevator if you are below
If you wanna co-op as a caster you had to spawn in starlight shards or you’d be rendered useless halfway through the map
my line was simple before eldenring but right now its a mess... i usually farm everything possible on the character and then trade and dupe all the consumables. all the weapons need to be accessed in the world to play them and if i want to dual wield or have multiple copies then i have to get them on another character if i want to use them.
all the talismans and cookbooks need to be accessed in the world aswell.
so ie i duplicate the consumables and trade over the weapons for multiples. and even with that i have spent so much time farming in this game it's actually insane... more than 500h for farming and buildmaking and thats the lowest estemate i could come up with...😢 guys.... if you want to pvp with a set build and dont have 100h just for setting up 2 characters then cheat... i dunno what else to say sorry from😮💨
Megamule helped keep Dark Souls 1 PvP alive for years and years. I never would have hung around in that game for so long if I'd had to grind out every single build from scratch.
To be fair though, it’s much more feasible and much less taxing doing a 4 to 6 hour run through Dark souls 1-3 to put a build together than it is the minimum 20-40 hour slog through Elden Ring, and that’s if you know exactly where to go and what quests you’re doing for the stuff you’re running, if you’re a poor sap like me that has to do everything beforehand you’re talking 150+ hours maybe more just on a single playthrough just to get everything you may wanna use for PvP, I’ve got characters on DS3 that go up to 300 hours each and that’s majority invasion/dueling time, by the time I’ve got my character ready in Elden Ring I just don’t wanna play the game anymore… especially given I know I’m just gonna get the 3 v 1 blender experience all the time anyway
Yes, it is totally ok, actually. Me and my level 802 buddies always make sure to stock up on all consumables in the game before we initiate our cooperation against invaders at level 21.
you're an OG, max lvl is 713 now
it is never ok to cheat in any games unless you are a child, getting items is ok if you do PvP
I love that the blame was planted at the very design of how rare the useful items are, like I'd personally consider using a starlight shard at all cheating because there's really no legitimate way to replenish the stock, therefore turning what would be an extremely useful item completely useless
Cheating for the sake of making builds, especially in a specific level bracket is a GOD SEND. Especially if you're like me and like to make a lot of different builds. Just recently i made a Man Eater Mildred kosplay in Bloodborne, but realized i needed to get to a late game area to buy poison knives.
Now to do the same thing in a massive game like Elden Ring sounds obnoxious, and I totally respect those who admit they just don't have the time or patience to set up a build "legitimately" everytime they want to experiment
Obviously cheating to grief is unacceptable.
I love the attempt to get those who disconnect to self-snitch. LOL This made me chuckle. (there is a special place in the lake of rot for those who do that btw)
If disconnecting is cheating why would the severer exist??
hes referring to Alt + F4 or closing out of the game on console
my line: as long as you dont use third party software or alter the game code, everything is fair game
use ce to build creation is enough tbh
Streamers have infinite golem arrows😂
I never understood single player cheating to finish a game. If you don't want to 'play' the game then go watch a walkthrough. Also limited items that you can only get so many per playthrough are not a fun design choice. Why can't we have buy-able or farm-able Starlight Shards, even if it's at the end of the game? That alone has stopped me from even considering a Magic centric playstyle, only ever relying on weapons in game.I do understand content creators on youtube and like-wise spawning items or altering stats for testing and demonstration.
It's OK to play a game however you want. You don't need some TH-camr to tell you whether or not it's OK. Trainers can't be used while the game is connected to the internet, so it doesn't affect PvP. No problem here.
jump attacks it´s cheating. a true souls player never jumps.
I think duping should be okay. What is not okay is exploiting in-game mechanics like tumblebuffing 🤷🏿♀️
Cheating is using glitchs like chainsaw an healing glitchs. That's not opion that's fact
I think my personal line for when an action falls into 'unfair' or 'cheating' is going to depend on what I think is considered bypassing an unreasonable ask of time investment for the same playing field, vs bypassing the same time investment for an advantage. I'll also preface this by saying I used to use cheat engine in Dark Souls 1 for making builds quite often. There was no built in respec, if you wanted a new build you had to start over. I don't use cheat engine in Elden Ring, it feels like the inconveniences generally don't justify it anymore. Though I do wish they'd just give us a farm for infinite respecs, because I'm on Journey 2 with most of my alts, Journey 3 with my original char, having carefully planned and used every larval tear per run.
If you want to cheat to put together a build, get past some bosses, get yourself to 150, etc, I really don't think I care about that. In the end it will be you and me, level 150, max upgraded weapons, killing each other.
If you cheat for golem arrows, that's at the very least annoying as fuck to me, because now I can't match the sheer amount of annoying 'knock you off a ledge' greatbow play that a player who installed cheat engine has, without either installing and using it as well, or putting in an ungodly amount of time killing golems. I feel similarly about starlight shards or other consumables that you can't farm for outside of running new games repeatedly. I feel that by gating these things behind a new playthrough the intention of the devs was to make them one time panic use items that are limited through your whole NG cycle. Similarly to the people chugging divine blessings in dark souls 1, if the devs intend for you to have like 10 of them max, and you're using 10 per invasion, we're gonna have problems.
I do think golem arrows certainly fall in a grey area in that they are infinitely farmable, technically, but we all know what a nightmare that is in reality, and I think the devs should have picked a lane and made them limited per playthrough, or more farmable through sane methods. For me, if its a grey area I'm gonna err on the side of caution because I'd rather have a level playing field than enable third party tools or exploits. That and having vs not having golem arrows is a clear advantage imo, where having a build finished faster is not going to change the outcome of the invasion you're in right now, its not like you're any different in practice to any 150 invader, just because you got there faster. Realistically if you aren't cheating for golem arrows, and you aren't that 1% of complete nutjob who farms them, you probably just don't have or use them.
Anyways, I think the devs should be more explicit about what is meant to be limited by preventing stockpiling, and making 'farmable' consumables purchasable in the ultra late game. After beating the final boss even. They should allow things like respecs, and allow you to lose levels/toss upgraded weapons to drop brackets, so long as you are the level you're supposed to be with the weapons that fit the multiplayer bracket that you're in.
As for cheating with infinite hp/Iframes, etc, keep it offline, and I don't give a shit. The moment you step into multiplayer you should be on the same playing field as the other players. (not talking about invasion balance, I'll whine about that later, but that's a balance issue, and we don't solve those by cheating, that'd be dumb as fuck)
My personal belief has always been if you’re altering the game with any code or data not designed or written by the official devteam, it’s cheating. Glitches, exploits, and skips are completely valid.
HOWEVER, I believe there’s absolutely nothing wrong with playing the game how you like if you’re enjoying a solo experience or experimenting. So long as you aren’t actively compromising the enjoyment or value of another player’s experience in the process it’s not a bad deed.
Video games are fun first, always. And for some people modding and hacks are how they have their own fun. Just respect your fellow gamers along the way.
Yes. THIS!
Cheat engine offline is fine. In a single player game.
Cheating is cjeating no matter how you look at it. Don't make excuses for your behaviour.
if replaying the game in a new playthrough to gain the items you want is a punishment .... then maybe this game is not for you ?!
When ever someone launches eldenring there is a statement that you have to accept every time to " not alter ingame data for online play " as long as you altered said data = cheating
This is basically the steroids in athletics situation lol.
I'll always advocate for item duplication via CE due to the game's insanely bad loot economy. There's no way to realistically grind out the consumables (I tried).
The line is very simple. If you’re cheating and it’s along the bounds of the game it’s not a big deal rarity of the item be damn. If you’re breaking rules, infinite of something or invulnerable you clearly are in the wrong.
Cheating doesn’t matter in pve, so the rules only apply to pvp.
Matters in pve when people then go on the internet to brag about their (fake) victories and how easy it was for them... 😏
@@alessandrobaggi6129 That doesn’t matter. I can understand you being annoyed but they know the truth.
I know this will be a hot take but I think that the scarcity of a consumable item's ingredients is part of how they're balanced, so the people who spawn in 999 of every arrow/pot/buff (or duplicate tem via save file backups) to use in pvp are cheating. The reason St Trina's arrows and Sleepbone arrows are a pain to get is because they're incredibly powerful - making them infinite via cheat engine removes the downside and messes with the balance equation. I don't think it should be as widely accepted as it is.
If you're making weapon review videos and you spawn in one of each weapon at max level I can accept that. But if you're invading at level 20 and you've spawned in two Vyke Spears or Trina Swords to kill newbies in Stormveil, that's cheating.
I personally use CE to set up PvP characters or to test certain things, and I don’t mind if others use it for the same.
I really don’t care if someone actually went thru the trouble of farming, I’m gonna be facing those items and weapons anyways. As long as you’re not actively cheating stuff mid fight or making yourself invulnerable/whatever, I don’t care.
If FromSoft could see beyond their silly Japanese sensibilities, they’d understand there are people out there who don’t want to repeat content a billion times and struggle with finicky mechanics just to perform simple actions like respec-ing.
Cheating and modding should be 100% OK in a single player experience. That way, you only risk ruining the experience for yourself, and no one else.
Ive beaten the game at RL25(my lowest level for invasions) on each class and done a 100% playthrough(all weapons, armor, and at least a stack of each consumable like golem arrows).
I'm over 1k hours player, to be blunt I have better things to do than yet another 40+ hour playthrough just to prep a new RL200 invasion character, so I'll use tools like Cheat Engine. I have a life, and work full time, i'd rather get to the content i enjoy(invasions) than spend days prepping for said content
Honestly I wouldn’t blame someone for using cheats to get certain items, since no one wants to grind or do another new playthrough to get a bit of rope for their grease.🐱
Good video. You need to talk about crafting in Elden Ring. Buying hips tons of Lloyd's Talismans in Dark Souls vs FARMING MOTHER****ING ALBINAURIC BLOODCLOTS in Elden Ring. What a downgrade of a game.
Not a fuckin cop! 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻 Hell yeah
As a SL1-5 twink invader, i usually place the line at no exploits and no mule/duping. Everything else is fair game. I've seen too many shameless overleveled phantoms or ganks at the "first step" bonfire that i didn't mind using the thunderbolt AoW, volcano pots or a health regen loadout back at them. There is an arm race going on between invaders and ganks and the only losers are the ones from both sides who will try to be legit and "non-sweaty". Me personally, i checked out of Elden Ring and found it more relaxing on DS1 and 2. I just hope FROM makes a solo game next time, the way they handled ER's multiplayer was awful.
I agree on everything except the removal of multiplayer from the next game: people need to learn to deal with invaders, preferably solo, when consuming THE game's main buffing item, as it was until DS3.
As usual: if anyone wants to avoid invasions, just play offline; playing coop lures invaders and rightly so.
Only against bosses. Half the bosses are cheats, themselves.
Chainsaw glitching PvEers was always ok, hell I’d argue that not doing it was unacceptable, you were morally obligated to chainsaw glitch PvEers. The only reason it is gone is because all the PvEers sent Micheal Zaki their feet pics and their prayers were answered whilst we were punished for doing the right thing.
All jokes aside, cheating to make a build is fine, ER makes getting everything set up tedious when you just want to PvP, same with using glitches to take out save edited characters and other exploiters, I’d go as far to say it’s justified to cheat against shitters but that’s probably just because I’m petty lol.
I love twinks bro
More important question: How to cheat without getting banned?
Play offline, use Cheat engine or glorious merchant to get whatever you want and then open the game as usual with CE or merchant disabled and you can play online with the things you got
The line is respect: cheat all you want except in pvp, but don't brag about it online...
It should be simple but people are often 💩
Also: items like Starlight Shards MUST be limited to have proper balance, period. 😤
They can be traded to facilitate coop (which i HATE outside of bosses) without forcing you to sever and resummon to resupply for a bossfight...
A good rule is if all players involved are ok with it, its all good.
Copying saves or Cheating in items to make a build early: OK
Using mods like Convergance, reforged or seamless co-op: Go for it
Hacking your character to make it have impossible stats to pvp with unsuspecting oponents : not cool
I spawn in all my crafting materials and starlight shards. Ill get all my equipment by playing through the game. Having to farm is too disrespectful of my time.
I do the same but I also give me duplicates of a weapon if I want 2 or more. For example on my faith build when I obtained the coded sword manually I spawned in another one to be able to power stance them, but on that character I spawned in every bolus because you need them if you are going to PvP and I'm not going to farm to make 900 rot boluses
Any form of cheating is a maidenless act only enticing to cowards.
I’m in Xbox and I gotta play for 10 hrs to make one build
If I had a choice I’d cheat
Or people who just want to pvp and don't want to have Miyazaki waste hundreds of hours of their lives.
Bet you're a proud ganker.
Its sad, Lots of salty invaders are duping items ect.
If you're playing offline and never pvp, then cheat all the F you want, alter stats, drop loot, use mods, whatever. It's only your own experience you're screwing with .
If you're online and playing PVP? No, don't do anything outside of the game.
If that means you have to spend hours farming for rare items to make things that help you in PVP then that's the game.
I made honest builds for the first few hundred hours, but when every mage is cracking multiple stars, everyone has a million boluses, golem arrows ect, I just can’t anymore. They all deserve it. Chain them together, send them to the volcano with or without cheats
If you're a duelist, I think it's ok to cheat yourself a full inventory of items. It encourages using them and makes fighting interesting. With invading random people it's on a vibe check. By default it is a dick move as you can't guarantee the other guy can waste rare items carelessly but circumstances may prove otherwise.
Only thing i use cheat engine for is larvak tears and ancient smithing stones so I can try more builds without doing NG+ since i have all questlines done.
As far as im concerned there is no moral implication here.
Starlight shards and other like items are scummy though.
Cheating is cheating lol, common sense isn't common these days eh?
The question is when is cheating acceptable. It's never good, just acceptable.
rune scammers swinging at the air rn with the ce controversy lately 😭
Seamless co op is cheating
👍👍👍
Honestly i wish the arena had a no consumable rule, im exhaisted by everyone throwing 200 pots, knives, and using rot, magic or lightning drawstrings. ... its annoying as hell
My characters are legit and someone throwing rare pots and drawstrings is annoying.
consumables don't get used up in the arena lmao they're not cheating
Use drawstrings or pots yourself, specially know that they auto refill so you don't waste anything. The thing that doesn't refill is the stuff that you can craft like fan daggers but you can get them really cheap
This. Exactly this.
@@Zayd-bg1pt never said cheating, i just said i wish there was a ruleset where consumables were banned
@@Panurome ya i just wished there was a alternative ruleset where consumables were banned
I cheat in items because i dont want to grind items for pvp, plus ive done a total of 10 playthroughs already, i just want to pvp now and do builds
The line for cheating is wherever you decide it to be. I beat every Fromsoft game up to NG+3-5, then started cheating so I can just enjoy the worlds/stories, except Bloodborne (cause there's no PC version), Sekiro and Elden Ring.
Sekiro has amazing combat, but due to eye problems and hand muscle issues I just can't keep up. I'm sure I could with a lot of time I'm just not willing to give, so I cheat. I think I started on the second fight with the Old Monk? I felt so awful about it I turned off the cheats because I respected the final boss too much and won after like 10 tries from all the power boosts from the cheating. As for Elden Ring, I got all the way up to the mountain of the giants and saw the massive spike of HP and damage of the enemies and felt like the game was purposely wasting my time so I started cheating. Those were my lines.