Wow Guv, it's just been disappointment after disappointment with both teams lately, Thanks for all your hard work and try and get some well earned rest!
I noticed that Intel left out the Max memory bandwidth specifications on all the Ultra chips on their official site. ie the 14th gen max memory bandwidth listed at 89.6GB/s, 13th gen, 89.6GB/s,12th gen 76.8GB/s, 11th gen @50GB/s. When you look for this number on Intel's new Ultra chips on their site, this specification is missing, and one can only guess why.
I, for one, find it very interesting that, although the performance isn't great all around, Intel releasing these new CPUs and platform shows that they are committed to all these changes, even if everything is so rough at the start. If they are betting on this I'm interested to see what the benefits might be on the coming iterations. With ARM and RISC-V gaining momentum, plus AI, it's very interesting to see these X86 giants responding. Great video again Tom, you've been my go to for a great review for ages. That no ISA paradigm shift will change hahahah thanks TTL!
@6:53 This is the most AMD launch that I've ever had from Intel... hahahahaha..🤣 Tom, you crack me up. Been a long-time subscriber.. 10+ years now.. Always checked your reviews before building my systems. Cheers man!
Maybe I'm stretching here but it reminds me of when they introduced the Core i series branding back in 2010 or whenever it was, the first generation was pretty meh but it set the stage for the next generation which was a banger. Fingers crossed it's the same case here, and the Ultra 365K will be the 2600K of the 2020's.
The 2500 and 2600 were amazing! They had performance that on previous gen would have cost 3x more. That was the last time there was a huge step forwards
@@GD-oc8vp don't joke on the ancient one brother, 😅 😅 ive played games like forza horizon 4,5 horizon zero dawn at 90fps, God of war 60fps at 1440p with 1660super, that thing doesn't want to die...😂 Going rock solid at 3.8ghz all cores full load 60c..
@@JosephKarthic oh for sure I had an i5 4570 rx480 system that lasted me years so I know how powerful the older hardware is. But as soon as I got a 1080ti/9600k i couldn't go back.
Wow, how did you manage to get sent a 265K? Seems like nobody else did. If the Windows issues get sorted out, the 265K, priced nearly $200 US under the 285K, begins to look somewhat interesting.
Thanks Tom honest review as always, appreciated no end. I am still running my MSI Z390 with the solid underrated i3 8350k. Yes i most certainly do need an upgrade, i now know what both camps are offering front line and back office. As you can see i hold on to my rigs, what i would like is an opinion please. I do not play very demanding titles and do nothing more than shadow play and maybe very light editing to some clips for youtube and streaming. As i mentioned looking at an upgrade would an AM4 CPU be fine as i could hold onto the ram i already have saving some much needed money, or do i do entry level with intel 245k or AMD AM5 7600X. I feel i would be ok with the AM4 platform for another 5-6 years as i could get an X3D chip later, and a better GPU in a couple of years as that will become my new bottleneck. Any feedback is welcome and also from the subscribers.
@@OC3D Polite way of saying move on but valid all the same. Will hold off another 6 months it won't hurt at this stage and will give both platforms more time to iron out some issues. I may just go intel 245K if those issues you mentioned are resolved in time for launch.
@@ProAutist101 For an objective and usable answer, he's right. Always build on a modern platform, get the DDR5. You don't want to buy twice as often to save 10-15% at a single time. The 245k is hilariously faster than your i3, to a degree I don't know you understand. Go upgrade. Make it happen. Don't worry about piddly incremental performance measuring, they're all on an entirely different performance level than your current platform.
Me too- 4th gen goomg strong...I pre-ordered a 465k though which was 1400 Cdn w mobo.. youtube videos making me a bit worried in the past days. I think it's still priced okay compared to all but 1 or 2 chips.. maybe just different type of chip whose benefits aren't fully appreciated or developed for yet? Idk but it's kind of down to the wire rn
Arrow Lake using TSMC N3B and removing hyperthreading vs Raptor Lake using Intel 7 you would think that the power saving would be exactly what you are seeing. With N3B's lower yields, the extra cost over N4X, what AMD uses, Intel was probably willing to spend the extra money to ensure that investors would see the ship righted. The 9950X has an N6 122mm2 IOD and 2x N4X 70.6 mm2 CCD's vs Arrow Lake N3B tiles probably adding up to the same real estate. AMD must be making good profit when comparing prices. And I didn't here anyone mention the NPU, that's pretty sad.
8 mins into the video and I can tell you want to give this cpu a fair unbiased review and I appreciate that. So much negativity its crazy, I get people are upset its not a beast in gaming but I find it so dumb and immature some of the mindless comments people are leaving. I bought this gen knowing its going to be a ride, but I kind of like that, same reason I bought into first gen Arc. These CPU's will most defiantly get better! People are not using their noggins. This is a completely new architecture for intel's CPU's and just like Arc it had the raw hardware but just was held back by lack of drivers that were optimized for it at launch. Now Arc is a very capable and stable card, the same for these CPU's. Games have been developed with Intel's old monolithic architecture for the longest also AMD being in consoles tend to get better optimization and support in games. I'm certain once newer games are developed with this new architecture in mind to leverage it fully, games will start to use the built in NPU to offload AI task from GPU and I bet this will be a beast in those games versus xd3 and 14th gen.
Looking to upgrade in the new year with the 5090's coming out (currently on a i7-7800X, 1080Ti) was looking forward to what Intel would bring to the table and this seems like a bit of a disaster tbh, calling it a glorified mobile part seems spot on. I guess the new X3D chips are likely going to mop up all the customers that are also upgrading at the same time as me next year.
The fact that they perform so well in multicore workloads when hyper threading is gone and on a completely new architecture (TSMC) it’s actually quite impressive. Looking forward to the next few generations now that they are running the same architecture as AMD.
Updating my rig in a couple of weeks time with the i7 14900k/Ultra 7/Ryzen 7 8700X3D in contention, upgrading from my trusty 8700k/Z390, looks like AMD it is, I think the nail in the coffin for Intel is there is no upgrade path either way - never used AMD before, so that'll be (more) interesting too, thanks for the vid and honesty with this review Tim.
I had a z390 as well. I just got a 14900k last week. The intel chips are all on sale and so are all the z790 boards. Hope you live near a microcenter. Crazy good upgrade either way. Enjoy your new build. ✌️🇺🇲
When Z170 came out I bought enough various motherboards that I guess I could have been a reviewer. Then I picked out the two I was going to keep and the rest I sold. When Zen 1 came out I did the same thing although not to the degree I had with Z170. Anyway when the 9000 series came out for the first time in a while I saw ZERO reason to upgrade even with it being my hobby. On the motherboard side I felt that my X670E board has everything I want/where I want it and I don't like the newer motherboards. Then the 200S (or whatever they call it) comes out and again I see no reason I would buy one. Although I do like some of the motherboards at least. I kind of give Intel a break on this one because it's their first gen chiplet design or at least I think it is (lol old/memory problems). AMD had a bit of a road to go down when they started with that as well. Only real surprise to me was that Intel didn't come in swinging with some form of X3D design for gaming.
To be honest I like the track both AMD and Intel are taking. AMD managed to eek out slightly better performance while increasing efficiency, if they keep doing that can you imagine what we will be using in a decade from now as far as power to efficiency goes. INTEL yes they took a step back to enable them to keep marching forward, this was a necessity as the track they were on was going to meltdown literally. Just call it a strategic withdrawal. On a personal note, I mainly game so my 7800x3d does more than I need, and yes I'd be more than happy if the 9800x3d gives a 5% lift but with a 10w to 15w power drop, just my opinion as I live in the UK and power is expensive.
As a computer enthusiast, this is very disappointing We need Intel to do well and we need to have good competition between Intel and AMD I feel like they have rushed this out which is a massive mistake Totally agree with you Tom
I was running a i9 13900k with a z690 and ddr4 but the cpu had the infamous heating issues. Got a 265K (made here in Vietnam ) a Z890 ASUS strix and 48GbDDR5 and the results are incredibly good PSU dropped avg power form 250-300W to below 200 (while gaming ) Runs at 120 W idle with a 4090 in it CPU temperature dropped form 50-60 degrees to an average below 40 degrees C Fans auto tuning dropped from 89% loading to avg. 40% Not much visible performance, but as Intel said … EFFICIENCY!1
14:58?? Intel ahead in Far Cry 6? You definitely had some testing issues. Fry Cry 6 is the poster child for Zen superiority in gaming and the X3D chips absolutely dominate there. In a nutshell after looking at all the other reviews, Arrow Lake is huge embarrassment for Intel even when the power saving is considered. It's a newer node and still loses to Zen in power efficiency.
@@bm373 So to be clear you think a generation is DOA because reviewers focused on stock performance and didn't overclock? AMD can't even overclock, so I would strongly argue that it isn't a "DOA" situation to simply miss third party overclocking tests on launch day.
Thanks TTL - everyone has gone woke about energy reduction! I think intel caught wind of Amd’s efficiency drive and tried to follow suit. They should have concentrated on performance at lower temps to give consumer confidence in the longevity of their cpus. This is an inconsistent mess and your not the only one to pick up on it! A huge win on the cards for Amd x3d I think
The way he is carrying on about all the problems, I don't even want to finish the video. NO THANKS. I will take my $1500 dollars and instead, spend it on an RTX 5090 where I can get REAL FPS gains, instead of this garbage. Sorry, I stopped the video, I will just continue to use my 12700K and, take a look at Intel at the end of 2025 or 2026 and see what they have then.
Intel is making tsmc 3nm look bad. Meanwhile Apple m4 series on Macintosh next week is about to make 3nm look good. Same with snapdragon 8 elite. And Blackwell.
@@CyberneticArgumentCreator it’s barely faster than the predecessor lake. In fact it loses in gaming and some other productivity tasks to raptor lake. It Costs more to produce and to purchase, you have to also buy a new motherboard, and yet it loses to the predecessor? Memory latency is worse than raptor lake. It also doesn’t use the additional density improvements from the new node to increase core counts. Still 8+16. Yet other manufacturers like Apple increased core counts when they moved to 3nm. Qualcomm also increased core counts of its prime cores and performance cores in snap dragon 8 elite (and got rid of efficiency cores). Massive multi core performance uplifts vs the predecessor.
Zen 5 suddenly looks much better than it was....
Or, people can just spend this money on a new RTX 5090 and get real FPS gains, instead of this Intel garbage.
@@all.day.day-dreamer Be readyr to sell your body and kidneys for it!
Wow Guv, it's just been disappointment after disappointment with both teams lately, Thanks for all your hard work and try and get some well earned rest!
I liked your conclusion part a lot. Thank you for the honest video.
I noticed that Intel left out the Max memory bandwidth specifications on all the Ultra chips on their official site. ie the 14th gen max memory bandwidth listed at 89.6GB/s, 13th gen, 89.6GB/s,12th gen 76.8GB/s, 11th gen @50GB/s. When you look for this number on Intel's new Ultra chips on their site, this specification is missing, and one can only guess why.
Bandwidth is fine, latency is not.
I, for one, find it very interesting that, although the performance isn't great all around, Intel releasing these new CPUs and platform shows that they are committed to all these changes, even if everything is so rough at the start.
If they are betting on this I'm interested to see what the benefits might be on the coming iterations.
With ARM and RISC-V gaining momentum, plus AI, it's very interesting to see these X86 giants responding.
Great video again Tom, you've been my go to for a great review for ages. That no ISA paradigm shift will change hahahah thanks TTL!
@6:53 This is the most AMD launch that I've ever had from Intel... hahahahaha..🤣
Tom, you crack me up. Been a long-time subscriber.. 10+ years now..
Always checked your reviews before building my systems. Cheers man!
I was really looking forward replacing my 13700k and z690 msi carbon wifi board, but looks like i'm keeping it another year... saving up for a 5090.
@@evofreak1304 yeah don't upgrade cpu! I'm rocking a 4090 and 13600kf @5.5ghz it's epic
Exactly the same for me, the 13700k is still a strong cpu, let's wait for the 5090
Maybe I'm stretching here but it reminds me of when they introduced the Core i series branding back in 2010 or whenever it was, the first generation was pretty meh but it set the stage for the next generation which was a banger. Fingers crossed it's the same case here, and the Ultra 365K will be the 2600K of the 2020's.
I'm still running my i5 760 oced to 3.8ghz paired with 1660 super..i have no idea what to upgrade now, is amd a good choice?
The 2500 and 2600 were amazing! They had performance that on previous gen would have cost 3x more.
That was the last time there was a huge step forwards
@@JosephKarthic Anything is a good choice from what youve got
@@GD-oc8vp don't joke on the ancient one brother, 😅 😅 ive played games like forza horizon 4,5 horizon zero dawn at 90fps, God of war 60fps at 1440p with 1660super, that thing doesn't want to die...😂 Going rock solid at 3.8ghz all cores full load 60c..
@@JosephKarthic oh for sure I had an i5 4570 rx480 system that lasted me years so I know how powerful the older hardware is. But as soon as I got a 1080ti/9600k i couldn't go back.
Wow, how did you manage to get sent a 265K? Seems like nobody else did. If the Windows issues get sorted out, the 265K, priced nearly $200 US under the 285K, begins to look somewhat interesting.
Thanks Tom honest review as always, appreciated no end.
I am still running my MSI Z390 with the solid underrated i3 8350k.
Yes i most certainly do need an upgrade, i now know what both camps are offering front line and back office. As you can see i hold on to my rigs, what i would like is an opinion please. I do not play very demanding titles and do nothing more than shadow play and maybe very light editing to some clips for youtube and streaming.
As i mentioned looking at an upgrade would an AM4 CPU be fine as i could hold onto the ram i already have saving some much needed money, or do i do entry level with intel 245k or AMD AM5 7600X.
I feel i would be ok with the AM4 platform for another 5-6 years as i could get an X3D chip later, and a better GPU in a couple of years as that will become my new bottleneck.
Any feedback is welcome and also from the subscribers.
I think if you're investing in a new rig for a long time sticking to ddr4 isn't the way to go
@@OC3D Polite way of saying move on but valid all the same. Will hold off another 6 months it won't hurt at this stage and will give both platforms more time to iron out some issues. I may just go intel 245K if those issues you mentioned are resolved in time for launch.
@@ProAutist101 For an objective and usable answer, he's right. Always build on a modern platform, get the DDR5. You don't want to buy twice as often to save 10-15% at a single time.
The 245k is hilariously faster than your i3, to a degree I don't know you understand. Go upgrade. Make it happen. Don't worry about piddly incremental performance measuring, they're all on an entirely different performance level than your current platform.
Great video :)
This is the most AMD launch that I have from Intel 😂
Currently Running a 4th gen Intel CPU so i think i will see improvements regardless lol
Me too- 4th gen goomg strong...I pre-ordered a 465k though which was 1400 Cdn w mobo.. youtube videos making me a bit worried in the past days. I think it's still priced okay compared to all but 1 or 2 chips.. maybe just different type of chip whose benefits aren't fully appreciated or developed for yet? Idk but it's kind of down to the wire rn
If you call stability issues an improvement, then yes!
I like the meg ace board
Hello, thank you.
Arrow Lake using TSMC N3B and removing hyperthreading vs Raptor Lake using Intel 7 you would think that the power saving would be exactly what you are seeing. With N3B's lower yields, the extra cost over N4X, what AMD uses, Intel was probably willing to spend the extra money to ensure that investors would see the ship righted. The 9950X has an N6 122mm2 IOD and 2x N4X 70.6 mm2 CCD's vs Arrow Lake N3B tiles probably adding up to the same real estate. AMD must be making good profit when comparing prices. And I didn't here anyone mention the NPU, that's pretty sad.
8 mins into the video and I can tell you want to give this cpu a fair unbiased review and I appreciate that. So much negativity its crazy, I get people are upset its not a beast in gaming but I find it so dumb and immature some of the mindless comments people are leaving. I bought this gen knowing its going to be a ride, but I kind of like that, same reason I bought into first gen Arc. These CPU's will most defiantly get better! People are not using their noggins. This is a completely new architecture for intel's CPU's and just like Arc it had the raw hardware but just was held back by lack of drivers that were optimized for it at launch. Now Arc is a very capable and stable card, the same for these CPU's. Games have been developed with Intel's old monolithic architecture for the longest also AMD being in consoles tend to get better optimization and support in games. I'm certain once newer games are developed with this new architecture in mind to leverage it fully, games will start to use the built in NPU to offload AI task from GPU and I bet this will be a beast in those games versus xd3 and 14th gen.
what case is that?
lov ya TTL!
You are an all rounder since you reviewed all the new arrowlake CPUs. Great job! 👍
Looking to upgrade in the new year with the 5090's coming out (currently on a i7-7800X, 1080Ti) was looking forward to what Intel would bring to the table and this seems like a bit of a disaster tbh, calling it a glorified mobile part seems spot on. I guess the new X3D chips are likely going to mop up all the customers that are also upgrading at the same time as me next year.
why would you use a 2k card on a 150 dollar chip?
@@chrisschneider850 the X3D?
Let see the next gen for both company next year. I'm still good with the 5900X :)
These days you need to update the BIOS with the same frequency you do Windows updates
Your were 1 minute before NDA :) :)
On the hour here
@@OC3D To the gulag! xD
The fact that they perform so well in multicore workloads when hyper threading is gone and on a completely new architecture (TSMC) it’s actually quite impressive. Looking forward to the next few generations now that they are running the same architecture as AMD.
looking forward to see the userbenchmark cope over this
Updating my rig in a couple of weeks time with the i7 14900k/Ultra 7/Ryzen 7 8700X3D in contention, upgrading from my trusty 8700k/Z390, looks like AMD it is, I think the nail in the coffin for Intel is there is no upgrade path either way - never used AMD before, so that'll be (more) interesting too, thanks for the vid and honesty with this review Tim.
I had a z390 as well. I just got a 14900k last week. The intel chips are all on sale and so are all the z790 boards. Hope you live near a microcenter. Crazy good upgrade either way. Enjoy your new build. ✌️🇺🇲
When Z170 came out I bought enough various motherboards that I guess I could have been a reviewer. Then I picked out the two I was going to keep and the rest I sold. When Zen 1 came out I did the same thing although not to the degree I had with Z170. Anyway when the 9000 series came out for the first time in a while I saw ZERO reason to upgrade even with it being my hobby. On the motherboard side I felt that my X670E board has everything I want/where I want it and I don't like the newer motherboards. Then the 200S (or whatever they call it) comes out and again I see no reason I would buy one. Although I do like some of the motherboards at least. I kind of give Intel a break on this one because it's their first gen chiplet design or at least I think it is (lol old/memory problems). AMD had a bit of a road to go down when they started with that as well. Only real surprise to me was that Intel didn't come in swinging with some form of X3D design for gaming.
20:46 To buy...9800x3d in a month :D
To be honest I like the track both AMD and Intel are taking.
AMD managed to eek out slightly better performance while increasing efficiency, if they keep doing that can you imagine what we will be using in a decade from now as far as power to efficiency goes.
INTEL yes they took a step back to enable them to keep marching forward, this was a necessity as the track they were on was going to meltdown literally. Just call it a strategic withdrawal.
On a personal note, I mainly game so my 7800x3d does more than I need, and yes I'd be more than happy if the 9800x3d gives a 5% lift but with a 10w to 15w power drop, just my opinion as I live in the UK and power is expensive.
Amd fanboys please sit down😅
As a computer enthusiast, this is very disappointing We need Intel to do well and we need to have good competition between Intel and AMD I feel like they have rushed this out which is a massive mistake Totally agree with you Tom
I was running a i9 13900k with a z690 and ddr4 but the cpu had the infamous heating issues.
Got a 265K (made here in Vietnam ) a Z890 ASUS strix and 48GbDDR5 and the results are incredibly good
PSU dropped avg power form 250-300W to below 200 (while gaming ) Runs at 120 W idle with a 4090 in it
CPU temperature dropped form 50-60 degrees to an average below 40 degrees C
Fans auto tuning dropped from 89% loading to avg. 40%
Not much visible performance, but as Intel said … EFFICIENCY!1
"we are perfprmance enthusiasts"
not really, no, the previous point was 400 watts, accept this new reality
Soo i prefer Zen 5% !😂😂😂
Too bad that Intel apparently cannot get their act together. I've never seriously considered AMD, but now I do.
Soooo... Its Official??? Intel its Official A Second Brand on everything?
On the verge of being a 3rd tier brand.
the intel zen 1 moment.... for better or for worse
14:58?? Intel ahead in Far Cry 6? You definitely had some testing issues. Fry Cry 6 is the poster child for Zen superiority in gaming and the X3D chips absolutely dominate there. In a nutshell after looking at all the other reviews, Arrow Lake is huge embarrassment for Intel even when the power saving is considered. It's a newer node and still loses to Zen in power efficiency.
lga1700...One hit wonder. Or should I say, one hit blunder.
3 generations are a one hit wonder, huh.
No reviewers are overclocking?! Wtf! ✌️🇺🇲
Xtu wouldn't work and we had to spend all our time retesting.....
@@OC3D Dam! Then they're doa. Probably get these and the motherboard 60% off next year. Thanks for trying. ✌️🇺🇲
@@bm373 So to be clear you think a generation is DOA because reviewers focused on stock performance and didn't overclock?
AMD can't even overclock, so I would strongly argue that it isn't a "DOA" situation to simply miss third party overclocking tests on launch day.
@CyberneticArgumentCreator more that reviewers were trouble shooting rather than testing.
@@CyberneticArgumentCreatorAnd from where comes the info you cant oc Amd? You cant oc the 3d chips pretty much.
So the only saving grace for Intel is they run 192GB better than AMD does (without tweaking)?
Thanks TTL - everyone has gone woke about energy reduction! I think intel caught wind of Amd’s efficiency drive and tried to follow suit. They should have concentrated on performance at lower temps to give consumer confidence in the longevity of their cpus. This is an inconsistent mess and your not the only one to pick up on it! A huge win on the cards for Amd x3d I think
This is mildly depressing
x3D incoming boys - oh well oh swell. Well Done TinyLogan for the awesome review, i watched with my best friend. Godspeed bro.
What a complete disaster of a launch. Thanks for putting the effort in for this video
Im going to short intel stock :D
I think I'll stick with my AMD rig it does all I need FFxiv and Factorio space age 😁
The way he is carrying on about all the problems, I don't even want to finish the video. NO THANKS. I will take my $1500 dollars and instead, spend it on an RTX 5090 where I can get REAL FPS gains, instead of this garbage. Sorry, I stopped the video, I will just continue to use my 12700K and, take a look at Intel at the end of 2025 or 2026 and see what they have then.
Intel is making tsmc 3nm look bad. Meanwhile Apple m4 series on Macintosh next week is about to make 3nm look good. Same with snapdragon 8 elite. And Blackwell.
How is the best fully threaded performance of a desktop part making 3nm look bad? Are you okay?
@@CyberneticArgumentCreator it’s barely faster than the predecessor lake. In fact it loses in gaming and some other productivity tasks to raptor lake. It Costs more to produce and to purchase, you have to also buy a new motherboard, and yet it loses to the predecessor? Memory latency is worse than raptor lake.
It also doesn’t use the additional density improvements from the new node to increase core counts. Still 8+16. Yet other manufacturers like Apple increased core counts when they moved to 3nm. Qualcomm also increased core counts of its prime cores and performance cores in snap dragon 8 elite (and got rid of efficiency cores). Massive multi core performance uplifts vs the predecessor.
Intel=Ubisoft
9:01 true, any other brand better that not working garbage from Asus