Cadence Sensor Vs Torque Sensors | Which is Better on Ebikes?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2020
- Ride1Up 700 Series (cadence sensor): go.ride1up.com/aff_c?offer_id...
Ride1Up LMT'D (torque sensor): go.ride1up.com/aff_c?offer_id...
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Which do you prefer - torque or cadence sensor?
Is it possible, to upgrade our Radwagon to a torque sensor ?
@@Ematuresco Not easily that I am aware of.
Very complicated question. For me cadence because I have respiratory problems and need it. If I would ride just for exercise, and could handle torque, I'd rather have that.
Definitely torque sensor. I noticed with the cadence sensor I don’t feel as much in control, especially around corners, I need to be tremendously aware of my PAS to remain safe.
This is easy for me. I rode an ebike with torque sensor and fell in love. I built one with cadence and was thoroughly disappointed. Torque feels natural. Cadence is probably fine for commuting.
I have experience with both. We now own 2 LMTD torque sensor bikes. Never get rid of the torque sensor. When you pedal harder, it goes faster. When you pedal lighter, it goes slower. Does it get any better than that? A lot less fiddling with the power selector, so more attention can be on the actual riding of the bike....obstacles on the trail, braking, gear selection, balance. Just like a real bike. I like a bike that feels like an extension of myself, and that is what torque senors do.There are a lot of bike riders like both of you and me that prefer torque sensors and would be forced to look elsewhere. Cadence is important for those too weak for the torque sensor. Please keep both. Don't eff it up with cadence only.
Everyone seems to think you are weak if you like cadence. I’m far from weak, my riding skills are humbly damn strong. If I put myself in PAS 3, I can pedal against that and get cardio for as long as I want and go 20mph. You can do that in any PAS, but your top end won’t be 20 in 1 or 2 and the ghosts down come out until 28 mph.
Thank you Kevin for the interview. The use case for the cadence sensor is stronger for more people more of the time. The torque sensor is better for true trail-riding, when you want that quick, precise control over torque/power as you navigate rock gardens, roots, switchbacks, etc. Serious trail-riding is also where a mid-drive outperforms the hub. But for all other scenarios the cadence sensor works better. When a noob friend was asking me about it, I explained it this way: when you're getting exhausted, the cadence sensor will still give you the same amount of assist. On the other hand, when you're "gassed out" on a torque sensor, it will give you less help, even though you need more. I remember my first long ride on a torque sensor; I was so disappointed at how I kept having to push myself, even when I was getting tired and wanted more help from the assist motor. Like a non-ebike, there was just no getting a break. Torque sensing means you get what you give, no cheating. (Unless you have a throttle, then you could get a break). I am not trying to tell people that prefer the feeling of a torque sensor that they are wrong. Both have use case scenarios and at the end of the day both are just ways to activate the assist motor.
Well said!! I’m using this example if you don’t mind..damn!
Excellent explanation!
You said it so well. I commute every day 10 miles total with a cadence. 3600 miles yesterday. I think about how my commute would be different if I had a torque sensor, I don’t anticipate ever wanting to change to a torque.
Torque sensing was the deciding factor for me buying two LMTD’s. That was more important than the 750watt motor. Thanks to Ride1Up for offering the option. As Kevin explained, the torque sensing feels more like riding a bike. I would hope the great work improving the software is done, and consumer expectations will be more informed going forward.
I’m 70 and ride a popular commuter cadence class 3, 5,200 miles, thumb throttle. If I ever get another, it will be cadence no question. I’ve got 8 gears to get me into my happy zone. I ride it also daily for errands and groceries, today it’s 107 in AZ and just got back. Hard to sweat then with a 15 to 20 mph breeze in your face. Mostly flat terrain.
Still love my gen 1 lmt'd. After the software upgrade it's flawless. Before that I haven't ridden any other ebike, but I did ride a lot of fixed gear and single speed bikes, so I'm used to pedaling hard. So the torque sensor works great for me.
I recently was able to ride the Lectric XP which has a cadence sensor. It took a little getting used to. You don't have to pedal as hard and the response isn't as quick. It's also a little less natural feeling, you can tell the bike is doing most of the work.
I'd say if you're more athletic or want more of a workout with a natural bike experience but faster, then go for the torque. If you're not as athletic or just want an easy ride then go for the cadence. Either way they are both very enjoyable.
Good to hear you like your LMT'D and always good to get thoughts from others on cadence vs torque.
Thanks for the clear explainer. Very helpful.
Glad I got the lmtd with the torque sensor. Couldn’t ask for a better bike
I feel the same. I like the feeling of pedaling a bike. No need for an on/off switch in the crank. There is already one under my thumb.
@@troyuntig1624 Great point Troy.
I just got the Lmt'd.
Its two bikes in one.
Using the lower power levels, the ride is exactly like a regular bike. You can pedal til your legs are burning and your heart is racing OR
You can use the higher levels for an almost effortless, relaxing ride, letting the motor do most of the work.
Definitely torque sensor. I noticed with the cadence sensor I don’t feel as much in control, especially around corners, I need to be tremendously aware of my PAS to remain safe.
I agree cadence if it comes on at low speed can be scary. Tight u turns are scary. How do you find the torgue sensor at very low speeds. Can you do that tight u turn
I have had both and prefer the torque sensor hands down. I got rid of the cadence sensor as it is like an on/off switch with set speeds. I was constantly pedaling to speed up, then coasting to slow down. I could not get used to "ghost pedaling" on the cadence sensor. With the torque sensor, the power is there when you need and not there when you don't. Torque has a much more natural ride feel. You can pedal at a steady speed and if you hit a slight incline and need assistance, the torque sensor will apply power to the motor to help you over it while maintaining the same speed. I think getting rid of the torque sensor would be a mistake as other competitor-ebike companies are adding it to their lineup, especially in the commuter styles.
Please keep the torque sensor, it will be really good if you can offer torque sensor as an option the other models. Thank you very much for the information.
I know I'm a little late with this and the LMT'D has already been changed, but I definitely prefer the torque sensor. The feel is so much more natural (except that I feel a little like an Olympic biker). I love how the bike smoothly surges when I peddle harder.
With the cadence sensor, even at higher gears, I find it difficult to keep my legs "engaged" once I reach my constant cruising speed. If I don't keep enough pressure on the pedals, it feels like I'm free wheeling for a few seconds until I "re-engage" with the pedals. I hear an audible "clink" when I re-engage. This goes in and out, clinking along.
That's just my preference. My wife loves her Rad with the cadence sensor and doesn't like the feel of my LMT'D. Like you have said, neither is better, it just depends on your preference. I live in the flat low country of South Carolina. I might feel completely differently if I was pedaling up and down hills.
A very accurate description! I ride both our LMT'D and Rad and I don't mind riding the Rad after being on the LMT'D - I'm still on an ebike after all!
I have cadence and 7 months into riding I find it's not the workout it was in the beginning. In the beginning I was always in PA 3 or 4, 7th gear. Now I find I prefer PA 1 or off with the motor as a backup for when the thighs burn too much. Regular ride is 15 + miles daily which has become too easy. My next bike will be torque. Cadence is perfect for older adults (me) that have been sedentary for far too long, ride to get in shape, and graduate to Torque for a better workout. Best.
Thanks for sharing!
Love the cadence sensor on my 700ST. Yes you can pedal effortlessly, but you can also play with balancing between Assist levels and gear selection, so you can actually help with as much effort as you might want...or not. In other words you CAN push the bike faster by pedaling with effort. After zooming about at first, the concept of hyper-mile-ing keeps things interesting in how you interact with the bike's systems. Have no experience with torque sensors. Thanks for the video!
Great to hear from both camps :)
I tried cadence sensor on Aventon sinch and I did not like it at all, the motor kicks in and pull you hard on the lowest pedal assist and it goes off as soon you stop paddling or you hit 10 miles/hour making it unpredictable and I can't do any work out if i won't to go less than 10 miles/hour, versus torque sensor on IZIP Sumo mid drive bosch motor feels much like normal bike that you can do work out or just go fast were ever you want to go. This is just an example of many torque sensor i tried and I really like. Kevin, please keep the torque sensor and expand that to other bikes as an option. Thank you very much
Appreciate you sharing your experience. I have yet to test out an Aventon ebike.
Definitely prefer the torque sensor. When on a Cadence sensor bike, its not as predictable. You could be ghost pedaling and the motor will just kick in suddenly. It's a bit unsettling. It feels like driving a car with a big turbo where the boost kicks suddenly rather than a naturally aspirated car where you feel more in control of the power.
I have ridden both. Torque sensor on 2018 Trek DS and cadence sensor on a conversion 2015 Trek 7.2 FX with Bafang BBS02. As with health issues. I find the cadence senor on the BBS02 more enjoyable. If I haven't had health issues and able to do the pedaling harder. Torque sensor would be my way to go.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
The LMT'D would probably go to the top of my list if it was available with a cadence sensor. Have some long hills and some steep hills on my way to work and I don't want to work a ton to get up them and a cadence sensor with a 750/1000 watt peak motor with pretty good torque would get me up the hills pretty easily. Can always tone down the pedal assist or ride it like a regular bike for exercise if you want.
One thing we should have covered but didn't was that with the newer LMT'Ds you can use the throttle up to 28 mph as long as you pedal. This functionality makes it possible to put in little effort if desired, much like a cadence sensor.
Apparently new builds of the LMT’D will be cadence. Torque won’t be available after current inventory sells out
@@EbikeEscape I would definitely like to hear more about how the throttle can be used in conjunction with both torque and cadence sensors. I'm a senior but fit and leaning towards a torque sensor for the workout but curious about the type of workout I can get with a cadence sensor.
3 Important things for me
Torque Sensor
Battery Size
Throttle
If you have different power inputs (1 - 5 for example), torque is preferable. It saves battery juice, the assist is variable based on your input but also, if you need more, power its there. Just increase the level.
Battery Size. Just like a car, I hate range anxiety or feeling I have to sip juice. 7 Ah doesn't cut it for me. Has to be at least 10 Ah but preferably 12 Ah. 12 is the sweet spot but 10 ok. 7 not good.
Throttle. Just in case. Just in case I'm tired. Just in case I feel like cruising with no effort or just because I want to have the option of throttle.
All three of these go hand in hand.
Torque for assist at ALL speeds and power conservation along with a workout or less of one. Bigger battery to take away anxiety and also assist with throttle and length of ride IF needed.
Baby maker has cadence but bigger battery.
Ride 1 has Torque but small battery and I don't believe either have a throttle.
Very frustrating to have this situation where one has one thing but on the other and so on.
Best option would be to offer Choice. Yes I want Torque, not Cadence. Yes, I want to select larger battery 12 Ah and Yes I want a throttle.
Thanks for sharing
So would it be accurate to make an analogy of the cadence sensor being the bone equivalent to a automatic transmission in a vehicle wrt assistance? And the torque naturally with a manual transmission?
I rode a torque sensor BH Neo for six years. I frequently desired to pedal a bit harder WITHOUT demanding more battery power, as I needed maximum range. Could not do that, other than just staying in eco mode. Now I have a 700 and discovered it has cadence sensor. At first I thought I did not like it, however the range is more than double my old bike, so now I don't have to be so stingy with power. Plus I am able to customize the wattage limits for EACH level on the 700. Could not do that on my old bike, so now I prefer the cadence sensor. The bike operates in a uniform way and that makes it easier to control range, by controlling top speed and wattage. Very happy with the 700 build quality and value.
Thanks for sharing your perspective!
Are both bikes same battery capacity?
Thank you brO...😁😊😎👊👍😚👌🤙💯
Okayyy, that thumbnail game leveling up 👀
What if you have the PAS at it's max speed of 9, and the gears on 7 ? Would you get more miles depending on the PAS levels or your gears ?
Just because you are on a cadenced ebike doesn't mean you can't get a workout. During my ride, I would engage PAS only on the inclined stretches. For the rest of my ride, I normally use PAS=0. Because of my ebike's extra weight, I ended up with a pretty decent workout.
I have been riding a bike with a cadence sensor for over 5000 miles and depending on what PAS level you are using I can add effort to it and save on power usage. So I am not just spinning when riding. Based on that experience I don't see a need for a torque sensor.
In the Ride1Up Owners FB page there is talk that the decision has been made to switch over to cadence only builds. I feel like I want to keep the need to have leg effort since I use cycling for fitness. When I ride with my wife I tour but still try to get a workout as well. I bought her a 700 and I want the LMT’D for not only the torque sensor but also for the better look of it with the way the battery is integrated and other upgraded equipment over the 700. I don’t like the way the battery is mounted in the 700. It’s cumbersome to remove. I would vote for keeping torque sensor but it does make sense from a business perspective to go to cadence only since only one model has torque. If we could truly build our own bike with options then it would be good to have a choice for torque but that probably will never be their business model.
I too would have liked to see them keep the torque sensor. I'd guess it wasn't a decision they took lightly. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the 700 - I believe I'm going to review that model next.
My wife and I both ride 700STs. I scoured the mid price market looking for the best value vs performance equation. R1U was the ultimate winner. I test rode torque sensor bikes and felt that for us, fit but not young, the cadence was a better option. For sure, when we want an aggressive workout it’s easy to get there. But there are times, like after a long uphill pull, when we just want to chill and let the bike work for awhile. I get that athletes and wanna be athletes might prefer the physical challenge of a torque sensor bike, but there are hundreds of analogue traditional bikes for that purpose. We have 7 speed cruisers for those occasions but find the exhilaration and freedom of the 700STs almost always win out. Kevin, stick with cadence sensors. Let others muck around with the complicated logistics of multi power systems. Concentrate on improvements in battery management, QC and running gear upgrades. JMHO
Hi Randall - you came to the same conclusion I did when I started delving into all of the different brands. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Good points Randall about putting effort toward improving what they have. I’ve been following what they have done to all the models to keep improving them. I bought my wife the 700ST and I’ll get the LMT’D for me. I’m way more athletic than her so I feel that will make up about even. I use cycling for fitness since I can’t run any longer so the torque sensor makes sense for me.
but what is best for getting started at traffic lights in a city environment? I often need to get going fast.
Any electric bike with a throttle :)
Recently switched to a Limited, unaware of these detailed comments about the cadence vs torque sensor. Yes, the torque sensor requires more effort so it also gives more exercise to a ride. I've been taking some long rides and the battery seems to last quite a lot longer than it did on my cadence sensor bike. Makes sense since I have to pedal harder. On the highest assist mode it handles whatever you throw at it with relative ease. Overall I'm extremely pleased with the bikes performance and handling.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Greg!
I have just purchased the Carbo-X ebike which has a belt drive and gear hub coupled with torque AND cadence sensor . I am hoping for the best of both worlds. What do you think about this system?
I haven't tried one myself but looks like a great combo!
I am a soon to be owner of a ride 1up ebike. I have been following the reviews and owner groups to educate myself before making this purchase. First of all thanks so much for the info. I will definitely use your link when I buy. I am 99% sold on the limited. As Kevin pointed out, not just for the Tourque sensor, but also the upgraded parts. Kevin also mentioned better welds which is a comforting thing to hear. I know this bike is not intended for serious mountain biking but I definitely thing the new found power will inspire me to hit a few trails. One point I would like to clarify is if you need that power boost to give your legs a little break, you can just hit the throttle and it will will take you to full speed. Am I understanding this correctly? I also have noted on some competitors bikes there are complaints about the cadence sensor lurching forward at start up. Are the ride 1up smoother? My second choice is the 700 so still curious about it as well.
Throttle is available whenever you need it. Just keep in mind that accelerating from a stop uses a lot of battery as opposed to getting up to speed a bit and then engaging the motor. I personally do not find that the bike lurches forward and my parents who are in their 60s rode Ride1Up ebikes with no complaints. Though you should definitely be careful when using the throttle when starting from a stop.
Do either have an advantage for steep hill riding? I think the motors generally used with torque sensors usually have more torque overall, and I know this is important for climbing. I don't need the speed, but I need the grunt.
In my opinion you'll be fine with the motor on the Core-5/500 Series/700 Series or the LMT'D. The LMT'D does have a higher torque motor but the other ebikes are plenty capable of tackling hills. It's just you'll need to apply torque to the pedals for the LMT'D to engage so it encourages you to work a little harder. You still need to be able to have the pedals spinning while going up the hill with the cadence sensor. Of course you always have the throttle :)
@@EbikeEscape Thanks for the reply. And I should define "hills" a bit better. In my case, my work commute goes 5 miles up a mountain pass where I gain 2000 feet elevation in that distance. Some might call it a "mountain" :-)
Torque Sensor: You get what you give, multiplied by assist level.
Cadence Sensor: You get a set amount per level of assist, no matter what you give.
The problem with torque sensing is that it won't help you at all, if you're tired. If you give less, you get less in return, when you want more. So for serious commuting (especially uphill) for someone who's not that in-shape, cadence sensor all the way. For someone who is in good shape, and just wants that extra boost to their own boost, torque sensing works better.
The bridge between these two is when there is a throttle on a torque sensor ebike. But those are not super common. -JT
@@EbikeEscape Yea, the TongSheng has throttle, but it's... NOT good. Let's put it that way. There's a lag before activation, and it feels very jerky. Still, at least it has one.
The dude's skull on the right was pulsating. I think he may be an alien.
Temporal artery. Be chubby and it won't show.
@ryan, Kevin mentioned in his interview with you that new mid-drive model is coming soon with German parts. Do you have any info as to when it will be announced.
Hi Sarib, as always appreciate your comments. Unfortunately you know as much as I know - but when I hear more you can bet there will be a post on ebikeescape.com :) Cheers!
The Prodigy coming out this summer is the mid drive model
I am also in Wausau! Where is a good place to ride? Wondering if my Himiway will make it up rib mountain?
Awesome! We ride our ebikes all over Wausau, car replacement and for leisure. There is the new Trillium trail, the new section by Kronenwetter (though I think technically ebikes are not permitted), the path by Ryan Rd and of course Mountain Bay! I believe the Himiway would make it up, just likely not on throttle only. If you ever want to test an come Spring ebike let me know!
@@EbikeEscape thanks for the quick reply! I will definitely check those places out. Thanks for the helpful content
Ebikes are being considered by an overwhelming number of seniors. It would be helpful to get a senior's first-hand experience and recommendations.
So there is no resistance on cadence style?
It's as hard as you make it - you can adjust your pedal assist level as well as your gear.
I've had a 250w tonaro and bewo mid drive and a bafang mid drive all with cadence sensors and a tongsheng mid drive with a torque sensor and the torque sensor makes you work a little bit to get the speed up but the feel is better and you don't need switches on the brakes as the motor just stops when you stop pedalling where as a cadence sensor will continue to go for a second or 2, so you need brakes with switches. My tongsheng uses hydraulic brakes and I have not needed 3rd party stick on hall sensors and magnets as the motor cuts off when no pedal power.
All my bikes have a throttle so if you're lazy then who cares :)
Thanks for sharing your experience!
I knew nothing about this. I have two ebikes as I have two residences. They both have cadence sensors. I didn’t know there was another system. My wife just bought an ebike which has a torque sensor. I really thought it was faulty. She likes it because it gives her more sensitive control. I jog and swim for exercise. I ride for pleasure especially when I am a bit tired. It’s like having a motorbike without the noise and vibration etc. Another consideration for a newbie is whether to choose derailleur or internal gears. Over long grass the derailleur gets clogged on my fold up bike. It’s a long and expensive learning curve. Personally, if you are buying an electric bike for its power, I can’t see the purpose of a torque sensor. You may as well ride a high quality push bike and expend similar energy over the same distance.
I love torque sensor. I feel like I get a better workout than cadence. The harder I push the more it pushes with me.
Thanks for sharing!
It seems like a torque sensor would be more efficient and add range compared to a cadence sensor. Is this true?
I can't say definitively since this isn't a topic I've talked about with others but I would think the torque sensor would be more efficient. Your power is likely to be more smoothly engaged compared to a cadence sensor which is more of an on/off. This might especially be true during accelerating from a stop.
The torque sensor is more efficient because it requires more effort on your part to move it along. To move the bike the torque sensor requires you to actually press on the pedals, not just ghost pedal. This psychologically makes you want to pedal harder to gain more speed. So the motor is actually working less harder and you are pedaling harder than you would on cadence only. A better workout (if that is what you are looking for). Ride both and see which one you actually pedal harder on. I think you can guess which one you willingly pedal harder on. That is the most efficient one.
It looks to me like most of the commenters prefer torque sensor but sadly Ride1up has made the change to cadence regardless. Does anyone have suggestions for a bike similar to LMT'd but with a torque sensor?
Hi Jeff, I will keep an eye out. I know Eunorau has the "E-Torque" though I haven't tested it out myslef: eunorau-ebike.com/?ref=tcagucypv8ri
Or maybe check out the Juiced CrossCurrent, again haven't tested out Juiced' pedal assist: bit.ly/2QsFpbz
Why not build a bike with both options, selectable via the interface?
Juiced is one of the only manufacturers we know that does this. We hope to see this come to more ebikes in the future.
For an individual who is a serious amateur rider, torque sensing is the only way to go.
It does seem like that is the preference!
I miss my cadence sensor on my old bike! The torque forces you to workout to go fast. I am commuting and live on a hill.
Is one more efficient?
I think the way the torque sensor engages it is more efficient.
Each has its own application. Torque sensors are slowly becoming standard in some lower priced bikes already. New versions, tech advances, imagine an e bike in 5 years?
Did it occur to either of you that discussing the power usage of each is important. Be aware that the most important issue for ebike riders in 2021 and forward will be range. As the Ebike community grows the ability to travel with out being tethered to a mental wall socket; needs to be addressed. The first time buyer may be fooled as to stated battery range for their bike but not us who have at least two under our belt. Tora Harris founder of Juiced bikes is once again forcing the industry to take us experienced ebike riders seriously. Your message seems to be for the novice but there are more each year who are experienced to degree. And so more probing. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe a torque sensor use’s less volts over same terrain and travel time. I’m curious as your guest certainly gives the impression of knowing; yet again does not address it?. So which is it? I have done some experimenting on my own, but curious as to your answer, please advise. Thank you.
The torque sensor is more efficient because it requires more effort on your part to move it along. To move the bike the torque sensor requires you to actually press on the pedals, not just ghost pedal. This psychologically makes you want to pedal harder to gain more speed. So the motor is actually working less harder and you are pedaling harder than you would on cadence only. A better workout (if that is what you are looking for). Ride both and see which one you actually pedal harder on. I think you know the answer.
I couldn't give up my ability to _Ghost Pedal_ with the cadence sensor (and go over 20mph).
How about eRider torque sensor?
Has anyone tried it before?
Never heard of it until now.
$500 price jump to a torque sensor is a rip off. They need to price these more realistic.
I don’t see why a bike with a torque sensor can’t just be switched to or also have a cadence sensor. This is really what we should be doing. It’s a preference not that one’s better or worse. I am trying out a turris and a lmtd currently.
Haven’t tried a torque sensor but did not like the cadence sensor at all. Not a bike like feel.
Then I'd bet you'll like a torque sensor. Feels much smoother and more like a traditional bike.
I'm thinking the cadence sensor ebikes will gradually be discontinued.
We'll see! Some people swear by them.
Well I guess I won’t be buying a Ride1up for Christmas present. Been researching this for a while. Very irritated they removed the torque sensor.
Hopefully you can find another torque sensor ebike!
That triple chainring made me cringe.
Glad they removed it.
--Edit---> Oh! I vote for the torque sensor. I want it to feel like a bicycle and not a scooter.
Cadence for me i want 25mph for little effort
DOes not mater you're abilities, Torque censer is always better
Cadence.
This is mostly a touchy feely marketing video. Nobody wants to say what is real here. I will. If you want to get any workout at all - use throttle and manual pedal (no pas) or a torque pas. Same if you want to go slower on flat trails around other people (5mp to 8pmh). If you are lazy and want to scream down bike trails from 12mph to 28mph with virtually no pedal use cadence. Most the cadence programming is for speeds way to fast for level 1,2,3.
Cadence sensors are useless for group riding
Is this a group ride with all ebikes or are you going with like a road bike group? Just curious
@@EbikeEscape normal non ev bikes. My experience is on / off all the time, too slow to fast
I am fortunate enough to have bought a Specialized Creo and you don’t even think of it as electric, just you but more capable. It did cost a lot of money but my BAFANG conversion on my GT Grade cost £2.5k and around £1k for the BAFANG kit
I don’t regret converting the GT as it gave me a taste for ev but if you are group riding with non ev friends, don’t waste your money on a conversion, buy an ev road bike and buy one that has the facility for an extender battery
and a local dealer
Dude won't shut up about his bike models!... This was supposed to be about sensors!
Totally empty talk
750W cadence, hub motor peak 1200W, tire 26x4", bat for both bikes 48V, 17.5A
1000W mid drive torque slim tire 26x2.6".
Hub motor do 90km, on the same part mid drv 76km
Avg speed the same or hub 1km/h plus.
On low speed hub smaller motor higher efficency in range 150 to 400W.
Hub pushes harder to reach pass speed what is in efficient range , and then if you give more motor gives less with min 1-2km /h ( motor can drop below 100W, not efficient but it is small power no big loss) change in speed so you can influence range more efficint way,
Torque gives you more when you press what reduces efficiency , someti m es you do not want more.
With single bat on road hills hub smaller motor but faster and easier up hill.
Problems on many bike.
Battery ok on small power up to 400W 8A, motor 1000 belowcthose power very inefficient.
On larger power motor efficint, more loss on air drag, battery currents 10A plus sag of voltage and with square of current are comming losses inside and outside battery.
Dramatic range drop and not full performance of notor.
Was riding both bikes with 2 bats when one drains out put fully charged in, ok fo slow riding.
Three weeks ako install bats in parallel.
Slow speed no important benefits maybe at the end of discharge but that takes over 6h.
Solwed problem riding 3-5 hours range cca 115+km with much higher speed before 23km/h no could be avg 30km/h it is dramatic increase in speed by matching 2 bats each half current with motor efficiency riding 500W.
Motor never performed as expected before put the 2nd bat in parallel even by using 2 x one bat.
I found had to pedal harder on low speed uphill close to 20km/h and green pass2 is easy to go around 35km/h even when l
Pedal have to gliding speed up to 34km/h roughly and then glide to 28km/h, practicalljy cannot continuosly pedal and it is much easier from going uphill 16-20km/h. Do not have control over torque sensors maybe it is possible to reprogam the impact of senso, or should be to adjust to my style riding.
Now mid drive become speedy demon with 2 bats each 17.5Ah. Think to put 2nd bat for hub motor in parallel maybe needs only smaller one..
Definitely torque sensor. I noticed with the cadence sensor I don’t feel as much in control, especially around corners, I need to be tremendously aware of my PAS to remain safe.